Bohemian Grove/Dark Secrets

[Jono]

A while ago on a different forum, I was debating one of Alex Jones avid supporters.
This poster made claims on the club of the Bohemian Grove, being;
a) A satanic club of satan-worship.
b) A gathering part of the NWO and ergo the Illuminati.
c) That their owl statue is the old god Molech, ergo Molech-worship.
d) That the ritual, "Cremation of Care" is based upon evil child-sacrifice rituals.
e) That Alex Jones video "Dark Secrets" reveal the truth about the Grove through evidence.


I asked the poster, initially, to please take of the tinfoil-hat and get serious.

The Cremation of Care is not a sacrifice of a child or anything remotely symbolic of it either. "Care" is, according to researchers of the Bohemian Grove, simply the symbology for concerns and anguish of the world.

One could indeed view it as a silly, middle-aged fraternal thingy, however, I was able to bring myself to see the video (Dark Secrets) and, well I thought it was informative to the extent that it just shows how silly some of the powerful men can act. But... satanic rituals, worshipping Satan? Not really.

Bonfire rituals and the likes are very common in various fraternities, boy scout clubs etc, where you burn something through bonfire with a ritual whenever you ascend to a new level of the fraternity. This doesn't mean people are invoking Lucifer for power and world conquest.
For example, the vikings/norse, used to have them all the time in different contexts.
A campfire or a bonfire is itself the celebration of life and survival in many non-christian traditions. The greeks had them too, upon the death of someone, burning them up and sending them with a penny for the ferry-man over the river Styx, releasing the soul of the dead and helping it along it's journey to the afterlife.

Basically, I wager, every single outdoor fraternity has it's own fire ceremony and rituals. Yet it is not really anything more than a play repeated for fun, relaxation and thought to represent the struggles of man over good and evil.
For Alex Jones, there is too much that seems to be a satanic, diabolic conspiracy of the Illuminati/NWO or whatever fuzzy pet-label that fits his baseless accusations.

Jones' "Dark Secrets" only succeeds in doing a monumentally boring documentary that has no substance at all, period.
It's as if Alex Jones assumes that the audience will automatically be without any critical thought and just buy into the New World Order-theories, just because some politicans like to play dress up in gowns etc.
The whole flick is basically predicated on the idea that is it not nice for politicians to be dressing up and acting out theatrically. The "weirdness" is really the only thing Jones is able to go on, which we all knew was there, as there does not appear to be anything sinister about the ritual he tapes at all, period.
Indeed, he guesses that maybe, just maybe, the effigy is really a corpse, but he doesn't even bother to try to prove that in any way. No no no, Jones ultimately seems to think the ritual is so evil just because it has elements of pagan rites.

I wonder how he would feel about going to an ordinary catholic mass???

In the end-parts of the documentary, Alex Jones says that he did "extensive research" on the occult. Bollocks!
It sure doesn't show, since they hop onto only a handful of elements and bring them up over and over without even explaining their signifigance, history or variations etc. For example, Alex refers to the owl statue as Moloch thoughout the film, where he's not even able to pronouce the name correctly for the first half!?

Plus, the "hidden camera" footage was so poor that it was virtually impossible to see the owl that Alex continually alluded to, the final product was edited quite poorly too and at one point in the film, a dialog box was visible from the editing procedure!! Can someone say "hack!"?

Naturally, as he always is, Alex was quick to make references to the "New World Order" but failed miserably in drawing any conclusive correlations between the ritual he filmed and his claims that the Bohemian-members were attempting to rule the world.
Also, Jones refers to the ritual he filmed as illegal. Illegal??? What laws were being violated? All he managed to prove is that there is a ritual that takes place under giant owl at the Bohemian Grove. Someone call the cops!
In his typical cheesy propaganda-fashin, he ends the documentary outside the Governor's Mansion in Texas, protesting and screaming into a bullhorn. Seriously, this film speaks more about Jones lack of any journalistic integrity, lack of any education than it does to anything that goes on at the Bohemian Grove.

It's just Alex Jones who one can depend on turning anything into a satanic, world-conspiratiorial fantasy. Give him a packet of cigarretes and he'll find a devilish plot of world conquest in it.

A few recommended readings on the Bohemian Grove can be found here;
"A Relative Advantage: Sociology of the San Francisco Bohemian Club (http://libweb.sonoma.edu/regional/faculty/phillips/bohemianindex.html)" by Peter M Phillips.

William Domhoff's quite detailed analazys and research of the Bohemian Grove;
"Social Cohesion & the Bohemian Grove: The Power Elite at Summer Camp (http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html)"

Even Jon Ronson's research left, of course, a less mad-cow impression of the Grove as opposed to the king of hysteria and fallacies r us; Alex Jones. (Jones accompanied Ronson inside the Grove and shot his flick)

It's this kind of mindless, sensationalistic crap (pardon me) which sparks idiots like Richard McCaslin into action.
Read about his Rambo-styled attack on the Grove here;
"Masked man enters, attacks Bohemian Grove: 'Phantom' expected armed resistance (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/24/MN115878.DTL)" (San Francisco Chronicle)

To this, the poster replied with;


So they are just having a bit of fun, are they? And when they get home, they forget it all and start behaving normally again, eh? Then why did the llluminati architects who designed Capitol Hill painstakingly work to make it resemble an owl, just like the one they worship under at Bohemian Grove.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/010105grove7.jpg

That one shows the Capitol Hill map, but this next one is an actual aerial photo of the whole area, and as you can see, the owl is still unmistakable:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/010105grove10.jpg


I replied with;

First of all, who are these "illuminati" archictects?
William Thornton? Latrobe or Bulfinch? Thomas U Walter or Edward Clark?
All of them I suppose.:rolleyes:

It also looks like a pregnant women with a bikini. Or if you turn the picture upside down, it looks like someone with a large butt bending over, lol. Why not a squirrel or a conference of cellulites?

What we have here is absence of any proof of Molech-worshipping, sans proof of any owl-architectural planning, but plenty of the usual and predictable loony-assertions.

If you only look for shapes that can possibly, concievebly be likened to some owl-shaped appearence, then you will find it all over the world if you look hard enough.
Just like people find the faces of Jesus in crackers, sandwiches, pies and coffee-mugs etc. It's ridiculously poor usage of brain-power, but imaginary though.

Was the USS Sea Owl a battle ship constructed to fulfill the satanic commandments?

One of his other arguments were;
I don’t see you raging like that about people who claim that Elvis is still alive

Fine, I'm biased on what nuttery I choose to address.

[uk_dave]

I see a little silhouetto of a man
Scaramouch, scaramouch will you do the fandango

[Civilized Worm]

Nobody tell Alex Jones about Guy Fawkes Night!

[calebprime]

There was a somewhat funny, not-too-great movie by Harry Shearer called "Teddy Bear's Picnic"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_Bears'_Picnic_(film)


I think Bohemian Grove is all about peeing on trees, and getting drunk.

[uk_dave]

Harry Shearer is a member of Bohemian Grove.

I believe he also played in a band once...the name of which escapes me ;)

[Jono]

Harry Shearer is a member of Bohemian Grove.

I believe he also played in a band once...the name of which escapes me ;)

Well, he also wrote/directed the film Teddy Bears' Picnic which reportedly is a parody of the conspicaries concerning the Bohemian Grove.

Oops, I see calebprime had already noted on the above.

[DarkMagician]

I see a little silhouetto of a man
Scaramouch, scaramouch will you do the fandango

Thunderbolt and lightning-very very frightening me

[T.A.M.]

Freddie is rolling over right now...STOP IT!!!

lol

TAM:)

[Horatius]

It's as if Alex Jones assumes that the audience will automatically be without any critical thought and just buy into the New World Order-theories,

Make that, "It's as if Alex Jones assumes that his audience will automatically be without any critical thought and just buy into the New World Order-theories," and I'd say you're right. And so is he :)

The people who pay money for Alex Jones' tripe are exactly like that. They are predisposed to accept almost any level of foolishness, without ever checking any sources. How many times have we debunked some very simple claims, that the CTists could have debunked themselves, if they had done even a very basic google search? But it never occurs to them to do that, until after we smack them around a bit. It never occurs to them, even though it happens over and over and over.....

[calebprime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vamh5GEi1vk

one of my favorites.

[Horatius]

One aspect of AJ's storytelling I've always found interesting is his manner of always going for the most outrageous explanation of any activity. Of course, if you look into Bohemian Grove, there are some weird things going on, but most normal people look at it as a fancy party/pageant for the rich, while AJ sees devils and evil and owls and all that.

I've thought about doing an AJ-style expose of some other, more mainstream activities, just to show how you can distort almost anything to make it look sinister.



"I was witness to an annual pagan solstice ritual. Parents groomed their children for weeks for the child's central role in this perversity, telling them stories of nighttime visits by otherworldly creatures, who passed judgement on all, keeping a constant vigil and a record of everything the child did.

On the final day, the parents would dress the children in formal vestments, and then drag the children to a central location, which had been gaudily decorated with pagan symbols of death and life. The children would be forced to stand in a line leading up to a gilded throne, where an old man, dressed in ritual garments was attended by teenage gilrs attired as mythical spirits. The children would be forced to sit on this man's lap (for what I can only assume is some pedophilia-related purpose), and questioned on their behaviour. Many children were so traumatized, they would cry, scream, and struggle to escape, but the parents simply looked on, often smiling, while pictures were taken to enshrine the child's terror.

Afterwards, the children would be badgered by their parents, who would assert that the children had really enjoyed this obscenity, despite the obvious horror on the children's faces."


Or, "People took their kids to see Santa Claus. Some of the kids cried."


:)

[Jono]

One aspect of AJ's storytelling I've always found interesting is his manner of always going for the most outrageous explanation of any activity. Of course, if you look into Bohemian Grove, there are some weird things going on, but most normal people look at it as a fancy party/pageant for the rich, while AJ sees devils and evil and owls and all that.


Indeed, as I said before, how would he respond to an ordinary catholic mass? Naturally he wouldn't jolt into his characteristic hysteria over it, since we are all used to that "oddity" or what have you.
Alex, apart from 9/11 (or perhaps including?) picks subjects that very few people know all that much about, slapping his witch-hysteria a la Salem over it. He's left the Moon-Hoax thingy well enough alone though, though who knows what will come out of his verbal-vortex in the future?

He's either a conscious fraud or self-deluded nut-case who projects some short-commings in a most imaginary way.

"I was witness to an annual pagan solstice ritual. Parents groomed their children for weeks for the child's central role in this perversity, telling them stories of nighttime visits by otherworldly creatures, who passed judgement on all, keeping a constant vigil and a record of everything the child did.

On the final day, the parents would dress the children in formal vestments, and then drag the children to a central location, which had been gaudily decorated with pagan symbols of death and life. The children would be forced to stand in a line leading up to a gilded throne, where an old man, dressed in ritual garments was attended by teenage gilrs attired as mythical spirits. The children would be forced to sit on this man's lap (for what I can only assume is some pedophilia-related purpose), and questioned on their behaviour. Many children were so traumatized, they would cry, scream, and struggle to escape, but the parents simply looked on, often smiling, while pictures were taken to enshrine the child's terror.

Afterwards, the children would be badgered by their parents, who would assert that the children had really enjoyed this obscenity, despite the obvious horror on the children's faces."


Or, "People took their kids to see Santa Claus. Some of the kids cried."


Couldn't have drawn a better comparison-satire myself.

:cool:

[T.A.M.]

If you think the things at Bohemian Grove are strange for leaders etc...

just look deeper into the activities of the Greek "scientists" and "Philosophers". Look into the Elite of the Victorian Era...Look into the Romans....

TAM:)

[Checkmite]

Oh, there's also that whole thing about how the pagan deity "Molech" was never symbolized as an owl, ever.

[Redtail]

God hep AJ if he ever stumbles upon a UCONN Show party. It's party thrown by the theatre dept at the end of a shows run, the theme is baised on the show. If he came on the night of "The Crucible" party, or the "Midsummer Night's Dream" party. UCONN's theatre dept. would be right up there with Skull and Bones. If he came during the beer-lympics...:eye-poppi

[Jono]

Oh, there's also that whole thing about how the pagan deity "Molech" was never symbolized as an owl, ever.

Yes, Jones is strangely hung-up on this Molech-association... of which he gives zero foundation for.
Molech (or Baal) is/was more commonly depicted as a kind of Bull-God.

Alex managed to take the name of that old deity and turn into a new CT-obsession, creating a new God for his ilk; the Bull-S**t.

[Liszt]

Oh, there's also that whole thing about how the pagan deity "Molech" was never symbolized as an owl, ever.

I read somewhere that Moloch was an owl because he represented being about to see in the dark (as in knowing secrets, like a catholic priest)

Most satanists are actually humanists (or a form of humanist). Most do not belive in the concept of Satan, who in early versions of the bible, was apparently an agnomen (the title of a deity, rather than a specific individual). Most do not belive in god either.

some of their philosophy is quite interesting, allthough not particularly pleasant. most of their rituals are mockeries of the catholic equivalent (ie the black mass). The best stuff concerns the relationship between Chritianity and astronomy.

no links to any of this I´m afraid, most of it comes from the worryingly large collection of books on the Dark Arts.

[Checkmite]

I read somewhere that Moloch was an owl because he represented being about to see in the dark (as in knowing secrets, like a catholic priest).

I am afraid your source is incorrect. Again, owls were never associated with Molech before Alex Jones.

[Brainster]

I am afraid your source is incorrect. Again, owls were never associated with Molech before Alex Jones.

Cripes! You mean these Moloch owls I've gotten from the NWO store aren't legit?

[Dr. Lao]

Jones is a paranoid kook with a radio show.

As outlined in the great Jon Ronson book, Jones went all commando to try to film the Bohemian Grove, wearing cammos and ducking through the woods, the author (also a JREF poster) just wore nice clothes and walked in liked he was supposed to be there.

Making money off of kooks is easy, just amp up the conspiracy aspect of it, make it sensationalistic and appeal to the fringe of the fringe, Jones knows his audience, and plays them like a fiddle.

As for Bohemian Grove, big deal, rich folk acting like frat boys, yadda yadda yadda.

[Dr. Lao]

Harry Shearer is a member of Bohemian Grove.

I believe he also played in a band once...the name of which escapes me ;)

Harry Shearer, among other things, is the voice of Montgomery Burns (and Smithers)


ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!

[MarkyX]

One of the videos AJ had dealing with the grove was a pathetic attempt to dehumanize the attendance. He actually stated in the video, as proof that these guys are devil worshipers, that the women who worked there were sexually harassed by the guests.

First thought that came by was "Did Alex Jones ever drank at a bar?"

So according to Alex Jones, when I am drunk and hit on a waitress, I'm a devil worshiper.

[peteweaver]

If bohemian grove was so sinister, how was Jones able to get in so easily?

[Horatius]

Cripes! You mean these Moloch owls I've gotten from the NWO store aren't legit?



No, they aren't! The stinking NWO Merch deptartment is just trying to cynically cash in on all the publicity that AJ has given them!

It's all a conspiracy, I tell you!

[T.A.M.]

a hillarious image of an Alex Jones Bobblehead Doll has just entered my mind and will not leave...lol

TAM:)

[uk_dave]

I am afraid your source is incorrect. Again, owls were never associated with Molech before Alex Jones.

Big Owl doesn't really care what name you give him, just so long as you OBEY oh puny mortal.

And I got that straight from the horses mouth.:D

[JimBenArm]

Big Owl doesn't really care what name you give him, just so long as you OBEY oh puny mortal.

And I got that straight from the horses mouth.:D
Now I'm all confused. Is it a Big Owl, a Horse or Gravy? I'm going around bowing down to everything now just to be safe!

My wife thinks it's kinda cute.

[Horatius]

Now I'm all confused. Is it a Big Owl, a Horse or Gravy? I'm going around bowing down to everything now just to be safe!

My wife thinks it's kinda cute.



He's sort of like a Transformer - More than meets the eye!

[JimBenArm]

He's sort of like a Transformer - More than meets the eye!
Robots in Disguise?

[Horatius]

Robots in Disguise?




Well, not robots so much, more like androids with animal tendencies, I'd say.....

[Zyzzyvas]

I wholeheartedly agree with the general consensus of opinion about Alex Jones, his bulging eyes, constantly-waving arms and penchant for yelling sensationalist, ill-informed bunkum into loud-hailers at anyone who wants to listen (or doesn't for that matter). This is another good example of the way that a perfectly interesting topic can be stigmatised when a conspiracy fruit-loop gets hold of it, tainting a subject that is worthy of some investigation. I refer to the revelation that, when viewed from above, the Senate building sits in the belly of an owl.

As you quite rightly point out, one can see almost any shape in anything should one be looking for it. The footpaths around the Senate building could indeed be a fat chick in a bikini, or someone bending over exposing a round cartoon-esque pair of buttocks. It looks more like an owl though, to be fair. Now I have heard most of the different theories relating to Illuminati owl symbolism and it is cited as representing any one of four or five different deities. The owl around the Senate is guaranteed to draw a few oooh's and aaaah's out of your pals when you're hanging out, downloading cool stuff from the net over a few beers. However, looking a little further into the subject of viewing Washington D.C. from the air, our chick-in-a-bikini-cartoon-buttocks-owl hybrid certainly isn't an isolated case of someone's attempts to create shapes on the ground.

Upon initially hearing claims of a secret occult geometry my conspiracy warning beeper went off and I opened Google Earth oozing my usual skepticism. I was positive there wouldn't be anything worth seeing. Or even if there was, it would be very dubious and fall into the could-be-anything-if-you-squint-your-eyes category. Also, I'm sure it's possible to form pretty much any shape you like using the street plan of a city, so I wasn't preparing to be impressed.

What I did see was certainly intriguing. The peculiarity of the Washington D.C. street plan is the diagonal roads that criss-cross the CBD. Having looked at some old maps, these are the roads that were in the original design, built onto the green-field site when the city was created. These diagonal roads create triangles and by default, other shapes too - there are obvious pentagrams, hexagons, six-pointed stars (aka Stars of David) and more exotic shapes to boot, none of which crop up in the street plans of other cities. There is also quite blatantly a pyramid which our friend - the owl - sits atop of.

I then discovered there is a book in which one man has researched all of this strange D.C. geometry. It is called 'The Secret Architecture Of Our Nation's Capitol: The Masons And The Building Of Washington, D.C.' , its author one David Ovason. The book elaborates on this whole subject to the tune of 500 pages and makes for an interesting and intriguing read. Even if you don't believe in the Occult (which I don't) the book supplies a convincing case to show that the city planners of Washington D.C. certainly did.

[T.A.M.]

Even if the landscape geometry was designed purposefully in such patterns, it could simply be an animal lover city planner.

Excuse me while I go find a field to make a crop circle in.

TAM:)

[Zyzzyvas]

Even if the landscape geometry was designed purposefully in such patterns, it could simply be an animal lover city planner.

Excuse me while I go find a field to make a crop circle in.

TAM:)

No, the intentional designs are based around the zodiac, the city planners apparently found some spiritual significance in the imagery of astrology.

They may also have been animal lovers, a lot of people are. I am. Are you?

Oooh, crop circles! Sounds exciting. What kind of shapes are you going to make?

[Civilized Worm]

Harry Shearer, among other things, is the voice of Montgomery Burns (and Smithers)


ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!


"Smithers, I believe this dog was in Skull and Bones"


If bohemian grove was so sinister, how was Jones able to get in so easily?


He's a ninja.

[Checkmite]

There is much Masonic symbolism to be found in Washington DC, and some of it indeed is not apparent at merely a glance; however, this symbolism is not so esoteric as to be manifested in things like street plans. Sure, the streets are laid out in all kinds of neat designs and such - but things like six-sided stars and pentagrams are not Masonic symbols. Neither are owls or pyramids (I feel compelled to point out here that it's kind of intellectually dishonest to call a two-dimensional triangle, such as that in a street plan, a "pyramid", because it's not a pyramid, it's a triangle. But I digress).

Masonic symbolism in Washington DC is a bit more blatant than that. For instance, a stroll through the central hall in the Capitol building will bring to your notice several large paintings. Some of these paintings have smallish Masonic symbols in them - not so much "hidden" as merely inconspicuous compared to the rest of the painting's subject matter - things like trowels, levels, and squares (the tool, not the geometric shape).

There exists in Washington DC, I forget exactly where, a certain decorative covered well with a sculpture of a bird atop a square roof (I believe it's a pelican or stork, something like this). This is my favorite example of "hidden", yet blatantly unmistakable Masonic symbolism. There's nothing explicitly Masonic about the bird or the well itself, or even the form of the well. However, carved around the edges of the roof, are certain words - Faith, Hope, and Charity. Directly facing the side with the word "Charity", but across the street and some distance away, stands a small monument dedicated to something else entirely; however, on the front of this monument can be found the phrase "The Greatest of These is Charity". These words and phrases are taken directly from Masonic ritual, and cannot be interpreted as anything other than an explicit Masonic reference. Any Mason who actually caught these references would grin at the inside joke. As it stands, most people (necessarily including many Masons) just walk by these two minor monuments, paying them no attention, and never seeing the references.

But here's the problem. Squares, compasses, and levels are not sinister enough. Words like "Faith", "Hope", and "Charity" represent good notions, things that anti-Masonic folks would rather not explicitly associate with Masonry, despite their being lifted directly from Masonic ritual. If one truly wanted to indicate "hidden Masonic symbolism" in Washington DC, one could point to these references with complete confidence, yet they are ignored by conspiracy theorists in favor of vague and ambiguous symbolism, like streets arranged in star shapes. As mentioned before, six- and five-sided stars are not expressedly Masonic in nature. However, they are connected with Jews and Satanism, respectively - things which the conspiracy theorists have decided are linked with Freemasonry. Thus, in their mind, these symbols become "explicitly Masonic" references, and the street-plan of Washington DC becomes some diabolical Masonic plot. I am unsure what the conspiracy theorists think Freemasonry hoped to achieve through this sneaky design (as a rule, Masons have in the past been almost unilaterally Humanist/Enlightenment-types who simply did not believe in magic or hold superstitions tendencies), but there it is.

[DarkMagician]

He's a ninja.

A fat, slow, loud ninja.

[Dog Town]

Harry Shearer is a member of Bohemian Grove.


Q:How much more black could it be?
A:None...none more black!

[Zyzzyvas]

There is much Masonic symbolism to be found in Washington DC, and some of it indeed is not apparent at merely a glance; however, this symbolism is not so esoteric as to be manifested in things like street plans. Sure, the streets are laid out in all kinds of neat designs and such - but things like six-sided stars and pentagrams are not Masonic symbols. Neither are owls or pyramids (I feel compelled to point out here that it's kind of intellectually dishonest to call a two-dimensional triangle, such as that in a street plan, a "pyramid", because it's not a pyramid, it's a triangle. But I digress).

Masonic symbolism in Washington DC is a bit more blatant than that. For instance, a stroll through the central hall in the Capitol building will bring to your notice several large paintings. Some of these paintings have smallish Masonic symbols in them - not so much "hidden" as merely inconspicuous compared to the rest of the painting's subject matter - things like trowels, levels, and squares (the tool, not the geometric shape).

There exists in Washington DC, I forget exactly where, a certain decorative covered well with a sculpture of a bird atop a square roof (I believe it's a pelican or stork, something like this). This is my favorite example of "hidden", yet blatantly unmistakable Masonic symbolism. There's nothing explicitly Masonic about the bird or the well itself, or even the form of the well. However, carved around the edges of the roof, are certain words - Faith, Hope, and Charity. Directly facing the side with the word "Charity", but across the street and some distance away, stands a small monument dedicated to something else entirely; however, on the front of this monument can be found the phrase "The Greatest of These is Charity". These words and phrases are taken directly from Masonic ritual, and cannot be interpreted as anything other than an explicit Masonic reference. Any Mason who actually caught these references would grin at the inside joke. As it stands, most people (necessarily including many Masons) just walk by these two minor monuments, paying them no attention, and never seeing the references.

But here's the problem. Squares, compasses, and levels are not sinister enough. Words like "Faith", "Hope", and "Charity" represent good notions, things that anti-Masonic folks would rather not explicitly associate with Masonry, despite their being lifted directly from Masonic ritual. If one truly wanted to indicate "hidden Masonic symbolism" in Washington DC, one could point to these references with complete confidence, yet they are ignored by conspiracy theorists in favor of vague and ambiguous symbolism, like streets arranged in star shapes. As mentioned before, six- and five-sided stars are not expressedly Masonic in nature. However, they are connected with Jews and Satanism, respectively - things which the conspiracy theorists have decided are linked with Freemasonry. Thus, in their mind, these symbols become "explicitly Masonic" references, and the street-plan of Washington DC becomes some diabolical Masonic plot. I am unsure what the conspiracy theorists think Freemasonry hoped to achieve through this sneaky design (as a rule, Masons have in the past been almost unilaterally Humanist/Enlightenment-types who simply did not believe in magic or hold superstitions tendencies), but there it is.

That's really interesting, thanks for your input. You are quite right too - referring to a triangle on the street-plan as a pyramid is certainly inaccurate. Just for the record I wasn't attempting to mislead anyone, I realise that I have probably been influenced by the general thrust of the some of the sources from which I learned the information, so thanks for pointing that out.

With regard to the sources of my information, it is such a shame, as you correctly say, that they want to imply that there is some kind of sinister, esoteric nature to the architecture of Washington DC. This is the problem with conspiracy theories, highlighted nicely by the example of your 'decorative well', cases that don't illustrate the dark agenda the author wants to portray don't get represented. Shameless bias.

Anyway, I was motivated to point out that there were shapes on the ground in DC because the general consensus in this thread was to ridicule such a preposterous idea. I simply wished to highlight that the owl around the Senate is not as stupid as it sounds because the Masons did have some kind of design scheme in mind when building the city. As far as the rest of their activities are concerned, I'm afraid I can't offer any insights, save the usual trot about belief in the Occult, weird Satanic rituals and dastardly plots to rule the planet and enslave mankind for eternity.... MOOOHAHAHAHAAAA

[Horatius]

I simply wished to highlight that the owl around the Senate is not as stupid as it sounds because the Masons did have some kind of design scheme in mind when building the city.




I think part of the problem is, people these days don't have the same sense of style, when it comes to planning things like cities, that they used to have. The guys who laid out DC knew they were building for posterity, and wanted it to be an unusual and interesting place.

It reminds me of the design of the lock controls for the Panama Canal. The control board is a scale model of the locks, made of brass and glass, and is not only functional, but beautiful as well. See a photo at:

http://www.pbase.com/jbearcat/image/14015400

and an explanation of their function at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Locks#Controls


The guys who built these things knew they would be in use for hundreds of years. They knew they were building parts of an Empire. We've lost that sense, in a lot of ways.

[Zyzzyvas]

I think part of the problem is, people these days don't have the same sense of style, when it comes to planning things like cities, that they used to have. The guys who laid out DC knew they were building for posterity, and wanted it to be an unusual and interesting place.

It reminds me of the design of the lock controls for the Panama Canal. The control board is a scale model of the locks, made of brass and glass, and is not only functional, but beautiful as well. See a photo at:

http://www.pbase.com/jbearcat/image/14015400

and an explanation of their function at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Locks#Controls


The guys who built these things knew they would be in use for hundreds of years. They knew they were building parts of an Empire. We've lost that sense, in a lot of ways.


Ohh, superb.

You're so right too. To borrow one of my Grandpa's favourite phrases - they don't make 'em like they used to.

[Newtons Bit]

D.C. was still a relative [rule8]-hole until after the British burned it. There were grand visions, but they were not well implemented. No one wanted to live in D.C. because it was a swamp.

[DavidS]

However, carved around the edges of the roof, are certain words - Faith, Hope, and Charity. Directly facing the side with the word "Charity", but across the street and some distance away, stands a small monument dedicated to something else entirely; however, on the front of this monument can be found the phrase "The Greatest of These is Charity". These words and phrases are taken directly from Masonic ritual, and cannot be interpreted as anything other than an explicit Masonic reference. (bolding mine)

Really? I'd certainly heard those words and phrases before and never associated them at all with freemasonry. Sounds more like a Biblical than Masonic reference to me; a hasty Google finds:

I Corinthians 13 "And now abideth faith, hope, and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

Not that I disagree with what I think are your points (Masonic symbolism and ideals aren't all sinister, but anti-Masonic conspiracy theorists ignore or downplay Masonic symbols that don't support their assertions of sinister Masonic conspiracies), only that these particular symbols are self-evidently Masonic. At least, I find no difficulty interpreting them as other than an explicit Masonic reference.

[Checkmite]

(bolding mine)


Not that I disagree with what I think are your points (Masonic symbolism and ideals aren't all sinister, but anti-Masonic conspiracy theorists ignore or downplay Masonic symbols that don't support their assertions of sinister Masonic conspiracies), only that these particular symbols are self-evidently Masonic. At least, I find no difficulty interpreting them as other than an explicit Masonic reference.

You know, you could be right.

Perhaps I hadn't effectively communicated before; when I said "interpreted as blatantly Masonic", I should've specified: a Mason, seeing them, would interpret them thus (because he is familiar with Masonic ritual), as would the only other type a person who is as familiar with Masonic ritual as a Mason would be - namely, the anti-Mason/conspiratoid. Such a person could without effort be expected to notice a Masonic connection - but, he would omit this connection from his doom-and-gloom website.

[therival58]

here's rare coverage of the Grove from ABC back in 1981

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDs9Vs2iYM

[beachnut]

Galileo, Galileo,
Galileo, Galileo,
Galileo Figaro - magnifico-o-o-o

[ElMondoHummus]

Galileo, Galileo,
Galileo, Galileo,
Galileo Figaro - magnifico-o-o-o

:dl:

here's rare coverage of the Grove from ABC back in 1981

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDs9Vs2iYM


And here are some rarely looked at (by conspiracy peddlers) threads where pretty much everyone agrees that Bohemian Grove woo is bleeping stupid!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66209
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=67641
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84361
Can we stick this corpse back in its grave now? Bohemian Grove woo was dumb back in 2006; nothing's happened since then to make it any less stupid today. There was no reason to resurrect a dead thread, especially when the resurrection was to advertise a recording from the 80's! :mad:

[therival58]

:dl:




And here are some rarely looked at (by conspiracy peddlers) threads where pretty much everyone agrees that Bohemian Grove woo is bleeping stupid!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66209
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=67641
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84361
Can we stick this corpse back in its grave now? Bohemian Grove woo was dumb back in 2006; nothing's happened since then to make it any less stupid today. There was no reason to resurrect a dead thread, especially when the resurrection was to advertise a recording from the 80's! :mad:

its an annual event so of course nothing new has happened since 2006. I just thought it was interesting to see that clip others might be interested in. Some have denied it even exists.

[jaydeehess]

Why is this thread in "911 Conspiracy Theories?"? Should it not be in the more general "Conspiracy Theories"

[Dave Rogers]

Why is this thread in "911 Conspiracy Theories?"? Should it not be in the more general "Conspiracy Theories"

Because, when the 9/11 sub-forum was split from CT, all the old threads went into the sub-forum. I've reported the thread and asked the mods to move it.

Dave

[jaydeehess]

My bad, I did not notice this was a revived 4 y/o thread.

[sadhatter]

I am starting to think the zombie apocalypse starts with internet threads. I am really starting to be thankful for my last few years of training with throwing knives....

[abaddon]

I am starting to think the zombie apocalypse starts with internet threads. I am really starting to be thankful for my last few years of training with throwing knives....

Absolutely no use. A stake through the heart is required. Or was that vampires? :D

[dropzone]

I think Bohemian Grove is all about peeing on trees, and getting drunk.That's my impression. And, besides Marines and college cheerleaders*, I can imagine few people more fun to encourage to get supremely drunk than the guys at Bohemian Grove. However, I'd have to watch myself and not match them 1:1. Current college kids are straight under the table after a couple hours, but these guys are pros and manage to run the NWO at the same time.

Don't know if that's a commentary on my mad skillz or how messed up the world is.


* - For different reasons. Drunk Jarheads are fun and pay for my booze as I encourage their stories. I understand cheerleaders are easy to get drunk on my dime, and easier after, but I never got within a penny of either.

[The Charnel Expanse]

The world's most expensive, exclusive and elaborate frat party is scary stuff, indeed.

[Jono]

My bad, I did not notice this was a revived 4 y/o thread.

Four years? Yes, you're correct. Holy pucks, I was almost newly-wed back then. :cool:

[Ausmerican]

As far as that owl in DC goes? Owls have long been associated with wisdom. Drawing one around the Senate they may have just been hoping like hell that some would rub off. :D