View Full Version : What would this do?
cesium
10th June 2007, 03:05 AM
If I were to take two pieces of metal (assume wires with infinite strength and conductivity), parallel to each other, say 20 cm long and 1 cm apart. Above and below these wires (1-2 cm), I would place neodymium magnets of equal length to the wires. (So there is a magnet, North up, two parallel wires, and another magnet, North up)
I would attach to these wires a voltage source (2 ish Kv), and the wires would have small "bumps" near the voltage source to initiate a spark.
What I see happening is a spark forming between the "bumps" in the wires, and the current being pushed forward by the magnetic field. Eventually this spark would be pushed past the ends of the wires, and then what? does it just die out?
This seems like it would do nothing but spark, waste energy, and produce a bunch of radio noise, or it would do something cool.
Any ideas?
Gilmar
10th June 2007, 04:13 AM
So it's basically a Jacob's Ladder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_gap, scroll down) with nearby magnets? Is it in a vacuum or air? What's its orientation? (Not that I know what difference those conditions would make. But they aren't specified and might affect the outcome. Would there even be a spark in a vacuum?)
casebro
10th June 2007, 09:51 AM
The gist of your question: Are electrons effected by magnetism?
ETA, after a minute of thought: Answer, yup, it's how cathode ray tubes work. The electron gun in the back shoots a stream of electrons towards the front, the magnets in the side aim the stream at particual dots of phosphorous making each one glow. All done in a vacuum. I dfon't know if you can see an electron stream in a vacuum though, or if what you see as a 'spark' is actually the incandescense of ionised air.
Further edit, after another minute: As your spark move away from the near point of the wires, it would take more volts to make a longer spark. You voltage source may be the limiting factor.
Jacobs ladders are usually powered by the transformer from an old neon sign. I don't know if the ubiquitous flourescent ballast will work or not.
ETA: another thought. Does magnetism effect ionised air as well as loose electrons? Could this be an 'energy drive system'? Simple ionise the air, repulse it with a magnetic field, thereby creating thrust? The thrust would be used of levitation, and forward thrust. "Ion drive system" any one?
Is this how that levitation system works? The one that uses high voltage fields to float items? I know the Nazi's experimented with it. And it is the claimed system for those giant delta winged UFOs. The somewhat-CT-theory is that the giant deltas are helium fillled for floatation that can raise the weight of the mechanisms involved, then they use 'elecric field propulsion' to remain silent. Possibly secret US military tech. Supposedly very stealthy, but how the ions dont show up on radar I don't know. Maybe they would show up on a magnetic anomoly detector? also known as a compass?
Dilb
10th June 2007, 12:24 PM
Sounds like you'll make a Jacob's Ladder, but with the spark curving due to the magnetic field. I guess it might work, but I doubt it would be that impressive.
Schneibster
10th June 2007, 12:54 PM
A Jacob's Ladder requires more voltage than this, 10-30kV; and the fact that it rises is because the air in the neighborhood of the spark is heated and therefore rises. In addition, the wires in such a device diverge, so at a certain point the resistance of the air and loss of heat upward combine to quench the arc. The voltage then builds until another arc forms at the bottom, repeating the cycle.
If the magnets are very strong, then you will get one spark that will start close to the supply and move to the ends of the wires and stay there, because the wires are parallel and the voltage is therefore high enough to maintain the arc. Very quickly, the heat will be too much for the wires and they will melt. This is known as "arc welding." I don't recommend looking at the arc for long; it could burn your retina. I'm not sure there are any magnets not driven by an electric current that are strong enough to move the arc, however. You might need superconducting magnets to do this.
ETA: Oh, and by the way, the arc in a Jacob's Ladder is created by the air superheated and ionized by the current. In a vacuum, such a device would be considerably less spectacular, not to mention the fact that the arc would never rise since there was no heated air to cause it to do so; it would establish an arc at the closest approach of the electrodes, and that arc would remain there until the power source was removed or the electrodes melted from the current.
casebro
10th June 2007, 02:51 PM
Just for fun, you might try a magnet around an old monitor. DO NOT do it to a good one, use one that is destined for the recycler. The magnet will effect the control of the electron beam, making pretty pictures on a color CRT. I don't think it will effect a LCD screen, but don't blame me if it ruins the one you try it on.
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