Fun times with Toronto 9/11 truth

[CHF]

While out shopping for roller blades after work yesterday, I decided to stop by the local truth movement's protest in front of the CBC building on Front Street. They were promoting a screening of 9/11 mysteries and venting over the fact that the media ignores them.

I'll give Toronto 9/11 truth credit where it's due: they deserve top grades for politeness. They were nothing like the punks you find at GZ in NY on a Saturday. No shouting, no insults and only some joking suggestions that I was an agent.

That said, their talking points were what you'd expect. I stood there chatting for a good hour or so, about 20 minutes of which was video recorded by one of them. Not sure if they'd want the exchange up on youtube, but I'll post it if it shows up somewhere. Some highlights, as best I can recall them:

- Do any demolition pros agree that the towers were CD? "Yeah lots," said a young guy. Like who? He muttered something about a demolition firm in Europe whose name he couldn't recall.

- Why can't we hear the deafening noise of the charges going off? "Cuz the sounds were drowned out by sirens." :eek:

- I asked if there were any peer-reviewed papers from the truthers. I then had to explain what peer-review was. :rolleyes: "Well Stephen Jones’ paper was peer-reviewed," another guy chimed in. Which journal? "It’s been published on-line so anyone can read it." He seemed surprised to learn that putting something on-line is not peer-review.

- We started talking about WTC7. Jowenko was mentioned but soon dropped from discussion when I pointed out his views on the towers.

- I asked if the FDNY was in on it, which they didn't seem to know how to handle. "Who ordered them to pull back?" Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro, is he lying? They wouldn't answer.

- Several minutes were spent explaining that "explosions" and "explosives" are not interchangeable. "OK, I understand that, but hundreds of people heard explosives." :faint:

- I asked if any FDNY maintain bomb went off in the towers. "Yes, but they’re afraid of losing their jobs," said one guy. I replied by daring him to go into a New York fire station and accuse the firefighters of covering up the deaths of 350 of their comrades. He gave an uncomfortable smile and didn't say anything.

- I asked if there were any witnesses to a missile at the Pentagon. "One guy said he saw a missile." Actually, I said, that person said he saw an airliner that was "like a cruise missile with wings." So ended that discussion.

- A guy with a "Silverstein: pull it" T-shirt said that "pull" was a demolition industry term for a controlled demolition. When I pointed out the true meaning of the term (pulling down with cables) a younger guy said: "well then that's what they did to WTC7." :eye-poppi Yup, they were that desperate for the pieces to fit.

- The guy with the T-shirt then made a claim straight out of a Judy Wood paper: "WTC7 was turned into dust." What about all those steel beams? "Well, with the exception of those." So WTC7 was rigged up with enough bombs to blast the building into dust? How much explosives that would take? "All I’m saying is that we need a new investigation."

- The most outspoken member of the group (who reminded me of Luke Rudkowski only more mature and with a sense of humour) said that the outer columns of the WTC could not have been pulled inward because NIST fire tests had not caused trusses to sag. So what caused the visible bucking then? He claimed he hadn’t seen the videos so he couldn’t say.

- I asked why the Bush administration had staged a terror attack without including any links to Iraq. They basically claimed that the government had done it that way because they, umm, did. :rolleyes:

- The Madrid tower fire was mentioned. I told them it had a concrete core and that the steel portion had collapsed. "What’s more susceptible to fire," I asked, "steel or concrete?" "Concrete" said a high-school member.

:dl:

- Another classic: "what about all those skyscrapers in Iraq?" You know...the ones that get car-bombed and don't collapse. Don't ask me which Iraqi skyscrapers he was talking about. He didn't know either.

- The one thing I told them repeatedly was to present their evidence to experts and get their info peer-reviewed. They agreed it was a good idea to contact engineers and demolition pros but seemed to assume that someone else in the movement was actually going to do it.

- Whenever I'd ask them what their theory on a particular matter was they didn’t answer, instead saying: "I dunno, that’s why we need a new investigation." As for who should conduct this investigation, they weren’t sure; someone "independent." No names though.

- Towards the end, the "pull it" T-shirt guy started rambling about how we were sliding into "fascism." So how were they protesting under a fascism regime? "We’re doing this while we still can." So it’s a slow-motion fascist take over? "Yup." How long has it been happening? "About 50 years."

As I departed I let them know about the controversy regarding Sophie's 9/11 mysteries and how the sounds of demolition charges had been added. They seemed most uncomfortable to hear the news and were at a loss to explain why such trickery would be deemed necessary, but I doubt they'll re-think the movie screening.


All in all, a very inexperienced lot who have clearly never read any opposing views.

[Sparky]

All in all, a very inexperienced lot who have clearly never read any opposing views.

I'm sure that even if you had provided them with sources to the opposing viewpoints, it wouldn't have done any good. These kind are driven by their need to be united in a cause, however misguided it may be.

[bje]

CHF, what would you guess the age range was of those truthers?

[HeyLeroy]

I wish I either
didn't live a four-hour drive away from TO, or had troofers here to play with.

Well, I do have one; he sometimes hangs out at my local pub. We call him "Conspiracy James", but he'd rather talk apocalyptic religious theory than conspiracy fantasy.

[CHF]

CHF, what would you guess the age range was of those truthers?

There were probably about 12-15 of them in all. Only one or two females.

I'd say six or seven were in their 20s, 30s.

Two were clearly high-schoolers (I let their silly remarks slide...they're just kids after all).

Three or four, including the "pull it" T-shirt fella, were older guys who reminded me of Jack from GZ (minus the bad attitude).

Interestingly, I think one of them was Barry Zwicker, author of Towers of Deception. He didn't say a word to me the whole time. Just watched from the back...

[3bodyproblem]

That's hilarious. I love this new idea of "turtle fascism" and how it can only be stopped with a screen printer, a gross of Hanes "Beefy T's" and a bullhorn.
I'm flying in to Vancouver on the 23rd, a little late for the truth conference but I'll try to make it on Sunday. No way i'm paying $25, but I'll head down anyways. From your experience though it may be worth the $25 for the sheer entertainment.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

CHF,

Nice post.

How was the "crowd"?

I've seen nothing in the local press. I wonder if they got any coverage?

Gord

[CHF]

Gord,

the funny part is that there was no crowd!

It was pretty much me versus them.

Because they wanted to rant against the media they chose the CBC on Front street at 6pm as their protest place and time. Pedestrian traffic at that time of day is sparse.

Of all the people who walked by during the hour I was there, no one stopped to talk to them. Most passers-by didn't even take a flyer and some had a look of visible disgust.

Some cars driving by gave them a supportive honk and that seems to have made it all worthwhile to them.

A post on their site today says: "Great event!! Lots of honks of support, plus one troll!"

:dl:

[Brainster]

Good job, CHF! The local fruitcakes in my city used to do the movie marathon routine at a local bookstore, but that seems to have been dropped in favor of the 11th of every month actions, but they still aren't organized enough to figure out what they want to do and put it on their events calendar (http://911truthaz.org/911truthaz/index.php?page=events), although I do see that Willie Rodriguez is supposed to make an appearance in August.

[~enigma~]

"Great event!! Lots of honks of support, plus one troll!"

Which bridge do you live under? Considering the proximity, I would guess London bridge :)

[Cleon]

- Towards the end, the "pull it" T-shirt guy started rambling about how we were sliding into "fascism." So how were they protesting under a fascism regime? "We’re doing this while we still can." So it’s a slow-motion fascist take over? "Yup." How long has it been happening? "About 50 years."


Because if there's one nation that's careening towards fascism since 9/11, it's Canada, eh!

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Gord,

the funny part is that there was no crowd!

It was pretty much me versus them.

Because they wanted to rant against the media they chose the CBC on Front street at 6pm as their protest place and time. Pedestrian traffic at that time of day is sparse.

Of all the people who walked by during the hour I was there, no one stopped to talk to them. Most passers-by didn't even take a flyer and some had a look of visible disgust.

Some cars driving by gave them a supportive honk and that seems to have made it all worthwhile to them.

A post on their site today says: "Great event!! Lots of honks of support, plus one troll!"

:dl:

Ah! So they probably missed Rule #1 of protesting - put out a press release. There is always a faint hope that it's a slow day for some news reporter. These guys are right outside the CBC and they could not even get a mention on "As it Happens"? :snicker:

[nicepants]

Probably the most important question no one has asked.....do people still rollerblade?

[LashL]

Great work, and terrific report, CHF!

Let's see, last time I checked (2006 census info from Stats Canada), the population of the metropolitan Toronto area was in excess of 5.4 million people. The troofers are up to 12-15 at an event. Yep, they're really doing a stellar job of "waking people up" to the "truth".

:)

[Tbone]

I'll give Toronto 9/11 truth credit where it's due: they deserve top grades for politeness. They were nothing like the punks you find at GZ in NY on a Saturday. No shouting, no insults and only some joking suggestions that I was an agent.

Canada gots the bestests truthers, eh!

You know, there was probably no crowd because of this. You don't see crowd gathering to watch other uh... civil protests of (for example) bus drivers, or trainyard workers, or shipyard workers. But throw in a few bullhorns, some chants, and some light rowdiness, and people will be interested. Like a car crash, if you will.

[DGM]

Probably the most important question no one has asked.....do people still rollerblade?
Hey, what's wrong with roller blades. I didn't start until I was is my mid forties so I'm not what you would call a trend setter. Good exercise though.

[Donal]

If they really want attention, they should get their girlfriends to dress provocatively and dance at their protests.

[Minadin]

A post on their site today says: "Great event!! Lots of honks of support, plus one troll!"


How exactly do you troll a sidewalk? Either I'm mistaken as to what the term means (lurking around on an internet forum, occasionally making an obviously antagonistic post, with the sole intent of stirring up trouble and / or getting a reaction) or they are. It seems like more and more people are using it to mean "someone who disagrees and wants to argue about it" so it's possible I'm not as up-to-date in my vernacular as I thought I was. I'm thinking you would be arrested or at least threatened with a severe beating (quite possibly both) if you tried my version of the internet troll routine on your typical city sidewalk.

[DGM]

If they really want attention, they should get their girlfriends to dress provocatively and dance at their protests.
Girl friends?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

That's hilarious. I love this new idea of "turtle fascism". . .

That would certainly explain the lack of urgency in their actions...

[Par]

Probably the most important question no one has asked.....do people still rollerblade?


Didn’t you get the New World Order-sanctioned memo? “While out shopping for roller blades after work” is CODE3872 for “on the way back from the Israeli embassy”.

[peteweaver]

Well done CHF :-)

[T.A.M.]

Excellent job CHF. You really seemed to set them straight, or at least shut them up, either of which works.

Hope to see the video if it goes up online.

TAM:)

[CHF]

Here are some photos they put up of the "event"[/URL]

[url]http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649 (http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649)

Picture #6 shows me, second from the left.

Note the sign on the far right: "Investigate 9-11 End all wars"

Yup, if we realize that 9/11 was an inside job then all wars will stop. It's that easy.

[Quad4_72]

Here are some photos they put up of the "event"

http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649

Picture #6 shows me, second from the left.

Note the sign on the far right: "Investigate 9-11 End all wars"

Yup, if we realize that 9/11 was an inside job then all wars will stop. It's that easy.

Nice purs....err I mean "manbag" haha. Jk. Awesome post. I would be doing the exact same thing you are if I had twoofers to play with. Its strange though, I keep getting told that like 80 percent of the population is twoofers but I have yet to see one that does not live on the internet...

[CHF]

I just remembered another funny moment.

Fella in the "Pull it" T-shirt (third from the left in photo #6) said that according to some demolition pro "it would take at least 2 weeks to rig up a building the size of WTC7."

He then had this "so there!" look on his face as if he'd proven something.

"So...what are you saying?" I asked.

"That's how long it took to rig up WTC7."

Yup, some expert said it could be done in two weeks...so that means it was.

[Corsair 115]

Because if there's one nation that's careening towards fascism since 9/11, it's Canada, eh!Well, there is a Conservative government in power in Ottawa! :D

[DGM]

Nice purs....err I mean "manbag" haha. Jk. Awesome post. I would be doing the exact same thing you are if I had twoofers to play with. Its strange though, I keep getting told that like 80 percent of the population is twoofers but I have yet to see one that does not live on the internet...
You know it's funny you say that. I think they're shy because I've yet to meet one either (In person). I've even started looking and can't find them. It's not that I live in the middle of nowhere (north of Boston). Hey their web site says there 19 of them. They must be shy. Maybe once school gets out they can go out.

[Horatius]

Here are some photos they put up of the "event"[/URL]

[url]http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649 (http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649)

Picture #6 shows me, second from the left.





Won't even show your face on camera, eh? Such an obvious Troll! [/twoofer]


:)

[gmanontario]

Well darn it all CHF. I was walking downtown after work yesterday but I used the path to head straight to the wife's workplace at the First Canadian Place from the ACC (actually closer to Rogers Center) to Union. It was too darn hot to walk above ground and I really enjoy walking the Path. I missed it :( and it was almost across the road from where I was, with the Tower blocking the view.

Anyways good job. Always enjoy the truthers making asses of themselves in public. Hell if the CBC ignored them then it's time to dissolve the movement. :D

ETA: I had a look at their page. Next time they show up downtown, I'm going to try and make it just to have a laugh at the fools.

[CHF]

gmanontario,

I strongly recommend swinging by one of their events. It's great fun. I get the feeling that they haven't faced much opposition before because it looked like they were hearing everything I said for the first time.

It gets boring after a while though. They read off the same script we've all hard a thousand times before. You almost know what they'll say before they say it.

[Brainache]

gmanontario,

I strongly recommend swinging by one of their events. It's great fun. I get the feeling that they haven't faced much opposition before because it looked like they were hearing everything I said for the first time.

It gets boring after a while though. They read off the same script we've all hard a thousand times before. You almost know what they'll say before they say it.

This was the same feeling I got from meeting the Sydney Truthers. They had the whole scenario of pulverisation, pyroclastic flows, footprints and PNAC all at once, while I futilely tried to argue the points one at a time.

It looks like you lasted longer than I did though. Well done.

[R.Mackey]

I strongly recommend swinging by one of their events. It's great fun. I get the feeling that they haven't faced much opposition before because it looked like they were hearing everything I said for the first time.
This was the same feeling I got from meeting the Sydney Truthers. They had the whole scenario of pulverisation, pyroclastic flows, footprints and PNAC all at once, while I futilely tried to argue the points one at a time.

It would be interesting to ascertain whether members of the Idiot Movement are predisposed to long-term memory loss. Just Asking QuestionsTM.

[uk_dave]

mikey swansong
Newbie
Group: Gone
Posts: 5
Member No.: 5,183
Joined: 12-June 07

While out shopping for roller blades after work yesterday, I decided to stop by the local truth movement\'s protest in front of the CBC building on Front Street. They were promoting a screening of 9/11 mysteries and venting over the fact that the media ignores them.
.........


Greenb:
just because they haven't researched it as much as some doesn't mean anything

they have commen sense, something you're lacking

btw...get a life
Headhunter:
I'll betcha he just made most of that up.
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=10769

Too funny :D

[CHF]

Thanks for the heads up, UK Dave. That's awesome. :D

The evidence for much of my post was filmed by the twoofers themselves (by the guy at far left in picture #6).

Besides, I couldn't make that stuff up. Too absurd.

Edit: for the record, I did NOT post anything on the LC boards.

[T.A.M.]

no, in order to make that stuff up, you have to have a truther mind set, so you're safe bud.

TAM:)

[aggle-rithm]

Some cars driving by gave them a supportive honk and that seems to have made it all worthwhile to them.

A post on their site today says: "Great event!! Lots of honks of support, plus one troll!"

:dl:

How did they know the honks didn't mean, "Hey, fruitcakes, how's it going"?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Since there are a lot of TO's own posting here, I giving a plug for Ontario Skeptics and our dinner meeting in TO tomorrow.

PM me for details and I'll get them to you.

Now back to the "TRVTH". :D

[Vincent Vega]

Interestingly, I think one of them was Barry Zwicker, author of Towers of Deception. He didn't say a word to me the whole time. Just watched from the back...

Is he in any of the pictures?

[CHF]

Photo #4, second from the right. I thought I heard someone call him Barry. I could be wrong.

[Trigood]

Because if there's one nation that's careening towards fascism since 9/11, it's Canada, eh!
Yeah, all those Mounties with black rubber boots and night sticks...

[CHF]

Oh look, despite having video of their chat with me, here's what they decided to post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r9OD4JZC04

Them handing out flyers.

They even chose to include the part at 1:10 where the lady walks by looking annoyed, so just imagine what their bad moments looked like!

[Crungy]

Oh look, despite having video of their chat with me, here's what they decided to post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r9OD4JZC04

Them handing out flyers.

They even chose to include the part at 1:10 where the lady walks by looking annoyed, so just imagine what their bad moments looked like!

Wow, was that a sad viewing. First off, the title of the video is "9/11 truth rally". There is no evidence of a rally. I was surprised at how young the twoofers are. None of them look over 15. I'm also surprised that they uploaded the video because it only shows them in a sad and pathetic light.

[LashL]

Oh look, despite having video of their chat with me, here's what they decided to post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r9OD4JZC04

Them handing out flyers.

They even chose to include the part at 1:10 where the lady walks by looking annoyed, so just imagine what their bad moments looked like!

And it appears as though as many as two - count'em TWO - people might have looked at their flyers. (It's difficult to tell whether those two were with the troofers or whether they had stopped to listen to/toy with the troofers.)

Nearly everyone they showed on that clip deliberately ignored them. You are quite right; it really does make one wonder what the bad moments looked like.

[CHF]

I was surprised at how young the twoofers are. None of them look over 15.

The two high schoolers in the video were the only young ones there.

They'er caught up in that whole wannabe-revolutionary thing. Happens to lots of young people and they have plenty of time to wisen up.

The rest of them though...no excuses for them.

[T.A.M.]

yes the revolution...lol

The music said it all...they think this is the new "1960s" revolution.

Sad...very sad.

TAM:)

[Hyperviolet]

Man, i get what CHF is saying haha.

Polite? They are bordering on meek. I mean for fans of Alex Jones they sure act nothing like him.

Just take the example near the end on the train - the younger guy whispering "Infowars.com" under his breath. I mean, whats going on? Is this a protest?

:D

[T.A.M.]

Now if they had been scots, well then bloody hell...."FREEEDDDDOOOOMMMM!!!"

TAM;)

[Gravy]

It's much more lively than the 9-minute video of DATARS labeling Loose Change DVDs in a diner.

[Horatius]

The music said it all...they think this is the new "1960s" revolution.




And it emphasized how lame they were. The song sings about "A thousand people in the street...", as we see about 4 guys get totally ignored everywhere. Pretty much par for the course on how they view the world.

[orphia nay]

Here are some photos they put up of the "event"[/URL]

[url]http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649 (http://9-11.meetup.com/282/photos/?photoAlbumId=172649)

Picture #6 shows me, second from the left.

Note the sign on the far right: "Investigate 9-11 End all wars"

Yup, if we realize that 9/11 was an inside job then all wars will stop. It's that easy.

I notice their list of albums:

Bloor Cinema - 911 Mysteries screening

June 11 action

May 5th Global Marijuana March

The Toronto 9/11 Questions May Meetup

Random Fotos

The Toronto 9/11 Questions March Meetup

The Toronto 9/11 Questions November Meetup

Group Photo Album



Twoof: Fighting for all the important stuff. :rolleyes:

[The Silver Shadow]

I have such a desire to go to one of their protests, make friends with them, and see if they can do anything that's compromising on their position on 9/11 :D

Anyone know when and where the TO truther community meets next time?

[CHF]

Anyone know when and where the TO truther community meets next time?

Wednesday, July 11. Looks like they're aiming for another triumph in front of the CBC building.

http://9-11.meetup.com/282/calendar/5872169/

Some are suggesting CityTV on Queen St. It'll be a lark either way.

[The Silver Shadow]

Interesting, very interesting. I'd love to have a chat with these people...

[westprog]

"All I’m saying is that we need a new investigation."


This is the common theme when confronted with facts - investigate more. But what's the response when genuinely independent people do real investigating? Anger and resentment. Sometimes threats.

If they really meant it, then they'd welcome all the detailed analyses, which invariably come from debunkers. Instead - look at the reactions to the Popular Mechanics piece. Ignore the science, hunt the Jew.

[c6gunner]

If they have a weekend event, I'll deffinitely be there!

[LashL]

If they have a weekend event, I'll deffinitely be there!

Weekends are good for me, too. It would be a double bonus if the next troofer meetup were planned to take place in front of the 6 storey building that miragemememories insists is 22 storeys tall :D

[Unsecured Coins]

in front of the 6 storey building that miragemememories insists is 22 storeys tall :D

I keep trying to tell you he's using Keebler Metric...

[Brainache]

I keep trying to tell you he's using Keebler Metric...

22 Fairy storeys?

[CHF]

July 11 twoofer rally....CBC building south entrance, 12 pm.

Do these people have jobs???

I work about 10 minutes away so I'll be sure to swing by on my lunch hour to see if any of them have contacted any engineers or demolition experts in the past month.

[The Silver Shadow]

I'll see if I can stop by. I might not be able to, but you never know...

[SpitfireIX]

Weekends are good for me, too. It would be a double bonus if the next troofer meetup were planned to take place in front of the 6 storey building that miragemememories insists is 22 storeys tall :D


I'm telling you, pretend to be pod people (http://www.oilempire.us/pod.html). You'll only increase their paranoia. :tinfoil

[Alareth]

I'm telling you, pretend to be pod people (http://www.oilempire.us/pod.html). You'll only increase their paranoia. :tinfoil

I'd like to find a few larger versions of those ABC 7 video frames to see what dance Ace does when shown them. It's a good angle.

[gmanontario]

July 11 twoofer rally....CBC building south entrance, 12 pm.

Do these people have jobs???

I work about 10 minutes away so I'll be sure to swing by on my lunch hour to see if any of them have contacted any engineers or demolition experts in the past month.

Yay!! I will probably be able to be there for a short while anyways. I just have to hoof it quickly from Bay and Queens Quay.

Look for an old nerd snickering in the background...

[The Silver Shadow]

If my cousin arrives in the later afternoon, I'll be there to chat it up and maybe grab a few pictures with them.

[Minadin]

I still wonder how it's possible to troll a sidewalk.

Someday, I hope to discover what in the world a DATARS is.

[orphia nay]

Someday, I hope to discover what in the world a DATARS is.

When you find out, can you tell me what it is?

[CHF]

Well it's almost time to find out whether or not the local twoof movement has contacted any experts in the past month.

I suggested it to them on June 11 and they thought it was a swell idea.

I can hear it now: "Well I was gonna call them but then I decided to make a youtube video instead, cuz, you know...if there's one thing we need its another youtube video."

[The Silver Shadow]

Can't make it today. My cousin arrives soon and I have to be at the airport right now!

[LashL]

Looking forward to reading about your adventures this afternoon :)