Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Let's try to dig up some of the real roots of the tree of contention over 9/11.

[gumboot]

Interesting notion.

From the Truther perspective I'm inclined to recall Michael Moore's remark:

There is no terrorist threat. There is no terrorist threat. Yes, there have been horrific acts of terrorism, and yes there will be acts of terrorism again. But that does not mean that there's some massive terrorist threat.
-Michael Moore
University of Michigan
October, 2003

I think a lot of people (and not just CTers) consider each act of terrorism as an isolated criminal act with specific causes, rather than a component of a larger threat of a Radical religious nature, with much larger and more alarming aims.

The common strawman response to this, of course, (and Childlike Empress is a master at creating this strawman) is what Michael Moore does above, which is to assume that the above means the global radical religious threat is the function of a single entity with a single central authority directing all attacks, rather than a series of loosely affiliated groups that share a common ideology, goal, methodology and origin.

A prime example is Dr Griffin. Although Dr Griffin does not believe Islamic terrorists carried out 9/11 (or indeed were even capable of it), he does think that Al Qaeda blew up TWA Flight 800. Thus clearly he thinks Al Qaeda are actually a terrorist threat and do exist.

-Gumboot

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

C'mon CTers, give us a cross section of the forums; vote in the poll! :)

[cloudshipsrule]

There were no planes. No planes = no terrorist threat = extension in mm = constant force in Newtons.

[Eckolaker]

I voted yes.
Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism groups do exist, but not in the form or scope the fear mongers and NWO scum would have us believe.

[Free Thinkr]

I voted yes.
Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism groups do exist, but not in the form or scope the fear mongers and NWO scum would have us believe.
Yeah; it's only a problem in the US, Canada, Europe, the Middle East and Southeast Asia.

[scissorhands]

And large parts of Africa.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I voted yes.
Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism groups do exist, but not in the form or scope the fear mongers and NWO scum would have us believe.
The above post is of good value I think. I'm hoping this poll can be of use in determing just how basic the discussion needs to become. If all members taking part in discussions agree that Islamic fundementalist terrorism exists, then the question becomes, "How 'big' is it?"; if agreement is not reached then the question becomes, "Does it exist?"

[Undesired Walrus]

I voted yes.
Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism groups do exist, but not in the form or scope the fear mongers and NWO scum would have us believe.

http://www.onefamilyfund.org/Portals/0/dead%20sea/Bomber_Sami_Salim_16.jpg

[tacodaemon]

A prime example is Dr Griffin. Although Dr Griffin does not believe Islamic terrorists carried out 9/11 (or indeed were even capable of it), he does think that Al Qaeda blew up TWA Flight 800. Thus clearly he thinks Al Qaeda are actually a terrorist threat and do exist.


Yeah, his wacky gonzo conspiracy theory also attributes the 1993 WTC bombing to al Qaeda, since Ramzi Yousef and friends were able to talk about it in prison. So we have one WTC bombing (correctly) attributed to al Qaeda and one airplane incident (incorrectly) attributed to al Qaeda but ne'er the twain shall meet.

[chipmunk stew]

And large parts of Africa.
And it's making in-roads in the Caribbean & South America.

[Free Thinkr]

And it's making in-roads in the Caribbean & South America.
Doh! Yeah, Africa for sure; perhaps more than anywhere else. And you're right about South America; I believe Argentina had its run-ins with Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism.

So, uh, if you're in Australia or Antarctica, you're probably not in danger.

[parky76]

the 9-11 deniars believe that all islamic terrorism is the work of middle eastern jews posing as arabs. its almost like they believe that all faiths are violent, except for islam.

[portlandatheist]

A quote from Sam Harris comes to mind:
"By no stretch of the imagination, can you argue, that the core principles of Islam is nonviolence. It is taboo to notice this and it is especially taboo among religious moderates. Our own religious demigods will notice this. Franklin Grahm will stand up and say 'Islam is an evil religion'. They'll notice the differences between religions, everyone else 'has the wrong religion' but religious moderates have rendered this taboo. I want to point out that I'm not talking about a race or ethnicity. I'm talking about the consequences of ideas. When I'm talking about Islam I'm talking about John Walker Lihn, the white guy from Marion county who went of to fight with the Taliban. We are at war, to digress briefly into our current situation, with Islamic fundamentalism. Not merely Al Qaeda, or extremist Islam; the mainstream doctrine of Islam contains this notion of martyrdom and jihad. It contains this imperative to convert, subjugate, or kill infidels. Anyone who says it doesn't has not read the Koran, has not read the Hadif(sp?), or is lying about them. It is taboo to notice this."

I find it interesting that its perfectly acceptable to strongly criticize Christianity or Judaism among the 911 CT crowd but any critique of Islam is "racist" which is an absurd notion. Some people will even accept the notion of Islamic terrorism but its always the victims that are to blame, not the perpetrators and it's certainly not a result of their religious dogmas but rather the misguided policies of various governments. I think there is a strong element of stockholm syndrome in this reaction. Should we blame Lebanon's support for Israel or their foreign policy in general for the recent spat of terrorist attacks they've been subject to by Islamic terrorists? Obviously not. Or maybe the attacks were staged by the Lebanese government to give an excuse to attack the refugee camps? Or perhaps other unseen evil forces are at work? But whatever the reason, lets not speak of the notion that dangerous religious dogma had anything to do with it for that would not be politically correct.

[jackchit]

Of course islamic terrorism exists you only have to look at the events in palestine today.
That does not mean they cannot be manipulated into carrying out acts of terrorism by those with a different agenda.
This poll is as pointless as a truther poll asking "do controlled demolition companies exist?" in an attempt to prove the WTC buildings must have been CD because these companies exist.
The fact these factions exist is not evidence they are responsible for any terrorist attack, that should be proven like any crime with real evidence.

[scissorhands]

We are at war, to digress briefly into our current situation, with Islamic fundamentalism. Not merely Al Qaeda, or extremist Islam; the mainstream doctrine of Islam contains this notion of martyrdom and jihad. It contains this imperative to convert, subjugate, or kill infidels. Anyone who says it doesn't has not read the Koran, has not read the Hadif(sp?), or is lying about them. It is taboo to notice this."

Very true, its that elephant in the room that nobody can mention in polite circles.
Anyone who has read of the life and times of Mohammed should realise that the violent fundamentalists of today are only following in his footsteps.
They are being true to his teachings and following his example.

[negativ]

That does not mean they cannot be manipulated into carrying out acts of terrorism by those with a different agenda.

Whose agenda were Shamil Basayev's crew carrying out when they murdered the kids at Beslan?

Whose agenda was Omar Rahman carrying out when he issued the fatwa calling for the assassination of Anwar Sadat?

Who were Jemah Islamiya brainwashed by when they blew up all those tourists in Bali?

Of course, of course, there's always someone ELSE to blame... always a bigger picture, always a monster lurking under the bed.

[Undesired Walrus]

I find it interesting that its perfectly acceptable to strongly criticize Christianity or Judaism among the 911 CT crowd but any critique of Islam is "racist" which is an absurd notion.

The problem is seperating the religion from the race that so happen to be born into it. That is a seperation that is failing amongst many of those critical of Islam.

Besides having some horrific verses in it, the Koran does actually have a verse which promises the Jews a homeland on their soil, which always gives me a bit of a giggle when I hear a wacky maniac like Anjem Choudary bang on about occupation of the holy lands. I just wish I could smash this verse onto these nutters heads. A similar giggle I get to when I see protests on the street about satirising the prophet when Muhammad was friends with Ka'b bin Zuhayr, who satirised Islam.

[scissorhands]

A similar giggle I get to when I see protests on the street about satirising the prophet when Muhammad was friends with Ka'b bin Zuhayr, who satirised Islam.

Not that friendly really.
Things got better after he converted.

http://muhammad.net/j/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130&Itemid=38&limit=1&limitstart=3

[jackchit]

Whose agenda were Shamil Basayev's crew carrying out when they murdered the kids at Beslan?

Whose agenda was Omar Rahman carrying out when he issued the fatwa calling for the assassination of Anwar Sadat?

Who were Jemah Islamiya brainwashed by when they blew up all those tourists in Bali?

Of course, of course, there's always someone ELSE to blame... always a bigger picture, always a monster lurking under the bed.

Please read before quoting and then making emotive posts, I said Islamic terrorist groups DO exist therefore by definition they have carried out acts of terror.
They are then however open to be explioted to commit acts of terror that would benefit a 3rd party.

[Undesired Walrus]

Not that friendly really.
Things got better after he converted.

http://muhammad.net/j/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130&Itemid=38&limit=1&limitstart=3

Shame really. Arabic poets and artists have consistently been exiled and targeted throughout history by religous nutters. It was probably demonstrated best in a metaphorical sense when they paralyzed the writing hand of the poet Mahfuz by knifing him. Unfortunatly it is easy to forget the beauty of various souls like Mahfuz and Qabbani in the middle east when confronted with these idiots day in day out.

Stupid believers.

[Undesired Walrus]

They are then however open to be explioted to commit acts of terror that would benefit a 3rd party.

Name 1 example in history.

[jackchit]

Name 1 example in history.

so the Carlyle group has not benefitted from the aftermath of 911?

[Undesired Walrus]

so the Carlyle group has not benefitted from the aftermath of 911?

So did the people who make American flags.

[jackchit]

So did the people who make American flags.

lol is that really your answer?
BTW which single company makes american flags?
and what are their profits since 911 compared to the carlyle group?

[boloboffin]

Conspiracy theorists profited as well.

[Undesired Walrus]

lol is that really your answer?
BTW which single company makes american flags?
and what are their profits since 911 compared to the carlyle group?

My friend (Who likes getting cash for these things) gained money for slipping over and cracking her knee open at work, apart from not meticulously checking his footsteps every second, does that mean she was responsible?

[jackchit]

Conspiracy theorists profited as well.

Agreed

[tacodaemon]

How has Carlyle's performance since 9/11/01 compared with that of other private equity firms that aren't so often included in zany conspiracy theories?

BTW, next time you think of stopping in Dunkin' Donuts for a coffee, keep in mind that Carlyle is a major investor. :tinfoil

[jackchit]

My friend (Who likes getting cash for these things) gained money for slipping over and cracking her knee open at work, apart from not meticulously checking his footsteps every second, does that mean she was responsible?

your friend changed gender twice during this one statement.

[Undesired Walrus]

your friend changed gender twice during this one statement.

Oh noes! I wrote the wrong gender! (It was a 'she' if you loose sleep over this tonight) Congratulations Jackchit, did you realise you were smacking yourself in a corner on these ridiculous statements and needed to pick up on what you consider a earth-shattering freudian slip instead?

[jackchit]

Oh noes! I wrote the wrong gender! (It was a 'she' if you loose sleep over this tonight) Congratulations Jackchit, did you realise you were smacking yourself in a corner on these ridiculous statements and needed to pick up on what you consider a earth-shattering freudian slip instead?

Its lose sleep, not loose sleep, now I suggest you put down the beer and head directly to your bed before you make even more of a fool of yourself..

[Undesired Walrus]

Its lose sleep, not loose sleep, now I suggest you put down the beer and head directly to your bed before you make even more of a fool of yourself..

:confused:

[Par]

Man misspells commonly misspelled word. What a shocker. Hold the front page.

[strathmeyer]

No, it's clear from UW's typo that he was lying about having any friends. I'd say more but they're isn't much more evidence in this thread and I don't have the time to search.

[gtc]

So, uh, if you're in Australia or Antarctica, you're probably not in danger.

Actually, Australians have been targetted several times by terrorists in Indonesia and there are several groups standing trial for planning terrorist attacks in Australia.

One of the main reasons we p***ed off them off was by helping secure East Timor's independence.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Of course islamic terrorism exists you only have to look at the events in palestine today.
That does not mean they cannot be manipulated into carrying out acts of terrorism by those with a different agenda.
This poll is as pointless as a truther poll asking "do controlled demolition companies exist?" in an attempt to prove the WTC buildings must have been CD because these companies exist.
The fact these factions exist is not evidence they are responsible for any terrorist attack, that should be proven like any crime with real evidence.
Did you even read post #8? Or are you just here to waste more bandwidth?

[gumboot]

Yeah, his wacky gonzo conspiracy theory also attributes the 1993 WTC bombing to al Qaeda, since Ramzi Yousef and friends were able to talk about it in prison. So we have one WTC bombing (correctly) attributed to al Qaeda and one airplane incident (incorrectly) attributed to al Qaeda but ne'er the twain shall meet.



Actually Ramzi Yousef was never at any point a member of Al Qaeda, and they had nothing whatsoever to do with the 1993 WTC Bombing.

This, I think, is Dr Griffin's error. Bojinka; Yousef not Al Qaeda. 1993 WTC; Yousef, not Al Qaeda. Suspect in TWA800; Yousef, not Al Qaeda.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

Doh! Yeah, Africa for sure; perhaps more than anywhere else. And you're right about South America; I believe Argentina had its run-ins with Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism.

So, uh, if you're in Australia or Antarctica, you're probably not in danger.

Actually, Australians have been targetted several times by terrorists in Indonesia and there are several groups standing trial for planning terrorist attacks in Australia.

One of the main reasons we p***ed off them off was by helping secure East Timor's independence.


Last year was the first year since 2001 that Australia was not targeted by terrorist attacks in Indonesia.

In addition, during the Sydney Olympics New Zealand Police uncovered an Islamic Terrorist Cell in Auckland which was planning to blow up the Sydney University scientific nuclear reactor.

Then there's that top Aussie Mufti people have been talking about...

Those missing ADF rocket launchers or whatever it was...

To be honest I'm surprised no Indonesian terrorists have come after New Zealand for also getting stuck into East Timor. All in good time I suppose.

-Gumboot

[portlandatheist]

Please read before quoting and then making emotive posts, I said Islamic terrorist groups DO exist therefore by definition they have carried out acts of terror.
They are then however open to be explioted to commit acts of terror that would benefit a 3rd party.
Because the Carlye group, or flag manufacturers, or conspiracy theorists, or Amtrak benefited from the attacks, does not mean they manipulated the terrorists that committed them. Do you have any reason to believe that the Carlye group "exploited" terrorists to fulfill their evil agenda? The motives for terrorist attacks are generally spelled out pretty clearly by the groups that propagate them and they at least don't seem to be easily exploited by 3rd parties that are bystander beneficiaries of the attacks. Sometimes 3rd parties that share common ideology and goals with those groups fund and support them but I would hardly characterize that as "exploitation".

[Liszt]

wow

I voted "no", just for a laugh, and was the only one out of 70 odd votes

This place needs more CTists.

[TOHMS]

I love how truthers take the fact that Al Qaeda does not operate as one large entity, and interpret this to mean that Al Qaeda does not exist.

[T.A.M.]

jackchit;

I know making friends here is the furthest thing from your mind, but correcting such a trivial spelling error for no other reason than to annoy, is, well, just rude, and poor form.

As for your comments on islamic terrorists, the issue is this. Many (yourself obviously not included) actually believe that the idea of extreme jihadists as terrorists is all a CIA/USG made up propaganda tool. Take a look at some of the writings of Kevin Barrett and his ilk and you will see what I mean. That is likely the reason for the poll, aside from boredom (not much happening on the truther scene these days. The quietest revolution I have ever heard tell of).

TAM:)

[The Doc]

It appears Kevin Barrett voted in the poll.

[chipmunk stew]

Please read before quoting and then making emotive posts, I said Islamic terrorist groups DO exist therefore by definition they have carried out acts of terror.
They are then however open to be explioted to commit acts of terror that would benefit a 3rd party.
They are, in fact, among the most closed, difficult-to-penetrate groups in the world. There is no evidence that they've ever been exploited by third parties, or that third parties have tried to exploit them.

[cloudshipsrule]

Terrorist organizations are not exploited. The hideous results of their ignorant, deadly actions may be, but not the groups themselves.

[Undesired Walrus]

They are, in fact, among the most closed, difficult-to-penetrate groups in the world. There is no evidence that they've ever been exploited by third parties, or that third parties have tried to exploit them.

I always find it interesting when Bermas goes on about 'useful idiots', guys who were 'low on IQ, wanted to do harm to America'.

Not wanting to make these guys seem anything other then ignorant mass murderers, but they were (For example Atta) very intelligent, patient and anything but merciful.

The idea they would do anything like allow an FBI agent to infiltrate their group is staggering really..

This is yet another example of the hideous racism that bubbles behind the scenes for CTers, that silly caveman arabs are infiltrated by clever, white government agents.

[cloudshipsrule]

The idea they would do anything like allow an FBI agent to infiltrate their group is staggering really..

Allow, no, but I'm hoping these groups are secretly being penetrated for the purpose of gaining information.

[gumboot]

I always find it interesting when Bermas goes on about 'useful idiots', guys who were 'low on IQ, wanted to do harm to America'.

Not wanting to make these guys seem anything other then ignorant mass murderers, but they were (For example Atta) very intelligent, patient and anything but merciful.

The idea they would do anything like allow an FBI agent to infiltrate their group is staggering really..

This is yet another example of the hideous racism that bubbles behind the scenes for CTers, that silly caveman arabs are infiltrated by clever, white government agents.

Allow, no, but I'm hoping these groups are secretly being penetrated for the purpose of gaining information.


The important thing to realise is that these groups are trying and have succeeded in infiltrating us. And I'm not just talking about how these groups infiltrate society and spread their hate speech.

They have in the past infiltrated the CIA and FBI. There's no reason they aren't trying now.

And the problem is; it's much easier for them to infiltrate us than it is for us to infiltrate them.

-Gumboot

[The Doc]

I would hope, however, that it would be much harder for them to infiltrate the CIA or FBI in the post-9/11 world. I'm pretty confident that things are much, much stricter these days.

[gumboot]

I would hope, however, that it would be much harder for them to infiltrate the CIA or FBI in the post-9/11 world. I'm pretty confident that things are much, much stricter these days.



Actually I suspect it's easier. The CIA and FBI (as well as military) desperately need people with a middle-east background, and whom speak Arabic. One of the major criticisms over the US intelligence community in the last decade has been there failure to invest in Middle East assets.

In particular the lack of ME language fluency in the US intelligence agencies is appalling.

An Arab Muslim "fleeing persecution" and coming to America, eager to help and cheering democracy, is likely to be welcomed with open arms.

I consider the Islamic Terrorism/USA spy game every bit as murky, dangerous, sophisticated, and complex as the USA/USSR spy game was.

-Gumboot

[Undesired Walrus]

So, changing the topic around slightly, do you think there is something to read into Islamist terrorism and the truthers? Do they perhaps believe so strongly that terrorists were not involved because the idea of ruthless maniacs like the pure evil displayed in Beslan is too close to their nightmares, wheras the NWO is more closer to their exciting fantasies?

Think about it, the NWO are more like bank robbers, stick you up, but want money ultimatly. Terrorists, like in Beslan, will rather murder themselves and everyone else around them, including 300 children, rather then be taken by the infidels.

[gumboot]

Yes, I think this is pretty much the entire psychology behind Conspiracy Theories. In an odd way the NWO is comforting because it means everything is CONTROLLED, and everything is driven by motivations that they can understand.

-Gumboot

[Undesired Walrus]

motivations that they can understand.


That's the ticket. The thing is, despite saying they are away from the 'mainstream media', they are actually the biggest victims of it. A media that has no idea why Bin Laden does what he does, rather than a few comments on 'freedom' and 'non-believers' whilst showing him in a cave.

[Travis]

Of course the chicken and the egg question is whether Truthers didn't believe in Islamic Terrorism first and not believing in that led them to be Truthers or if the lack of belief in Islamic Terrorism is nothing more than a necessary outgrowth of their previous Truther beliefs?

[Free Thinkr]

or if the lack of belief in Islamic Terrorism is nothing more than a necessary outgrowth of their previous Truther beliefs?
Yeah, this is it. It's a result of idealism; once they buy into the NWO BS, everything that they previously knew is wrong, and the NWO is now behind every bad deed, and anyone who says otherwise is a plant.

[Travis]

Yeah, this is it. It's a result of idealism; once they buy into the NWO BS, everything that they previously knew is wrong, and the NWO is now behind every bad deed, and anyone who says otherwise is a plant.

I think this is true for the Loose Change crowd. They came into this movement largely through their exposure to that "film" and a disbelief in Islamic Terrorism followed by necessity.

The Alex Jones crowd, on the other hand, were likely the opposite. Not believing in Islamic Terrorism for past events forced their hand, in regards to 9/11, to either admit it does happen, which opens up the possibility that their past beliefs were wrong, or apply that same line of thinking to the new event.

[gumboot]

I think those members of the 9/11 CT crowd who are younger probably never even thought about terrorism prior to 9/11 - when 9/11 a lot of these people were children.

I was 9 during the Gulf War. I knew nothing of the Middle East, Kuwait, British rule, or any of that.

It's the same way that CTers are suspicious that Al Qaeda was identified as a culprit so quickly. For us adults that remembered the Millennium plots and the Embassy Bombings and so forth, it was obvious. For people that were children in 2001, and are only now looking back at events as adults, it is not obvious.

-Gumboot

[mortimer]

Its lose sleep, not loose sleep, now I suggest you put down the beer and head directly to your bed before you make even more of a fool of yourself..

Your sentence is a run-on sentence, and it ends with two periods. You fail the internets.

[Par]

Your sentence is a run-on sentence, and it ends with two periods. You fail the internets.


Further, the “its” at the very start of the sentence is a contraction of the words “it” and “is”. As such, it should contain an apostrophe. Also, the underlining of the word “loose” begins prematurely, affecting the previous space.

Going by his own measure, he should be practically suicidal with shame by now.

[Mobyseven]

Doh! Yeah, Africa for sure; perhaps more than anywhere else. And you're right about South America; I believe Argentina had its run-ins with Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism.

So, uh, if you're in Australia or Antarctica, you're probably not in danger.

Antarctica maybe. There hasn't yet been an attack on Australian soil, but there have been attacks specifically targeting Ausralian citizens in SE Asia.

[Gravy]

An interesting article on "Jihad etiquette (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/weekinreview/10moss.html)" in The New York Times discusses the increasing number of rationalizations for taking civilian lives.

[Hourglassmemory]

I'm actually going to reply as a worried 17 year old.
I'm worried that these fundamentalists are going to keep up with their nonesense violence until the world is covered with their allah-beliefs.

Imagine these groups start performing attacks that start becoming bigger and bigger.
Won't the U.N. do something? Or a group of contries and Organizations.
Or will they all stop and do nothing out of respect for the religion?

The only thing that worries me is the "respect" poweful organisations might have towards these atrocious acts against humanity.

If they are going to take action....When?...does it take a bigger attack?
If they perpetrate attacks on the scale of 9/11 or 93 .....will U.N.(or any other organization or countries) still do nothing out of respect?
Only if the attacks get bigger than 9/11 will they do something?

[Peephole]

Oh ****, I voted wrong.

[A-Train]

The question in the poll is too simplistic. Of course Islamic Terrorism "exists."

Example of Islamic Terrorism: A Palestinian teenager puts a bomb in his backpack and walks into a cafe, killing himself and perhaps one or two others.

Example of non-Islamic Terrorism: A group of highly trained agents, trained and backed by all the resources of a state, and while disguised as "Islamists," hijack four airplanes and rig them to fly remotely to their targets. Two of the targets are penetrated and rigged for demolition beforehand, to maximize the psychological trauma of the attacks and induce the US to wars in the Middle East.

Given the above scenario and the drastically differing magnitudes of threat, we can say that for all intents and purposes, Islamic Terror really does not exist.

[Gravy]

A-Train, you thought this was the humor subforum, right?

[Par]

A Palestinian teenager puts a bomb in his backpack and walks into a cafe, killing himself and perhaps one or two others.


Yes, "one or two" others. Scarcely any, really.

[Par]

A group of highly trained agents... disguised as "Islamists,"...


So, they weren’t disguised as actual Islamists?

[stateofgrace]

Given the above scenario and the drastically differing magnitudes of threat, we can say that for all intents and purposes, Islamic Terror really does not exist.


Would you mind if I use this in my signature?

Ps.. I hope you don't mind if I nominatate it for a stundie

[gumboot]

I'm actually going to reply as a worried 17 year old.
I'm worried that these fundamentalists are going to keep up with their nonesense violence until the world is covered with their allah-beliefs.

Imagine these groups start performing attacks that start becoming bigger and bigger.
Won't the U.N. do something? Or a group of contries and Organizations.
Or will they all stop and do nothing out of respect for the religion?

The only thing that worries me is the "respect" poweful organisations might have towards these atrocious acts against humanity.

If they are going to take action....When?...does it take a bigger attack?
If they perpetrate attacks on the scale of 9/11 or 93 .....will U.N.(or any other organization or countries) still do nothing out of respect?
Only if the attacks get bigger than 9/11 will they do something?


September 11 for me was a wake up call. Do you know what I think the problem is? That a lot of the world woke up for a short time and then turned over and went back to sleep again
-Tony Blair, July 26 2005 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4718185.stm)

Pretty much sums it up for me.

-Gumboot

[jackchit]

A-Train, you thought this was the humor subforum, right?

This post is full to the brim with facts, no sarcasm whatsoever.

[Mobyseven]

The question in the poll is too simplistic. Of course Islamic Terrorism "exists."

Example of Islamic Terrorism: A Palestinian teenager puts a bomb in his backpack and walks into a cafe, killing himself and perhaps one or two others.

Example of non-Islamic Terrorism: A group of highly trained agents, trained and backed by all the resources of a state, and while disguised as "Islamists," hijack four airplanes and rig them to fly remotely to their targets. Two of the targets are penetrated and rigged for demolition beforehand, to maximize the psychological trauma of the attacks and induce the US to wars in the Middle East.

Given the above scenario and the drastically differing magnitudes of threat, we can say that for all intents and purposes, Islamic Terror really does not exist.

I deleted the reply I had originally written to this before I hit post, as it would likely have got me banned.

I have family in Israel. One of my cousins has served his time in the military, and there are two more cousins who are not yet out of school. There have been real shocks and scares in my family over the years with suicide bombings, and for you to suggest that Islamic terrorism does not exist is almost enough to make wish that sort or fear and horror upon you. Almost.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

The question in the poll is too simplistic. Of course Islamic Terrorism "exists."

Example of Islamic Terrorism: A Palestinian teenager puts a bomb in his backpack and walks into a cafe, killing himself and perhaps one or two others.

Example of non-Islamic Terrorism: A group of highly trained agents, trained and backed by all the resources of a state, and while disguised as "Islamists," hijack four airplanes and rig them to fly remotely to their targets. Two of the targets are penetrated and rigged for demolition beforehand, to maximize the psychological trauma of the attacks and induce the US to wars in the Middle East.

Given the above scenario and the drastically differing magnitudes of threat, we can say that for all intents and purposes, Islamic Terror really does not exist.
You can't even answer a simple question without putting your delusional paranoid spin on it, can you?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

This post is full to the brim with facts, no sarcasm whatsoever.
Wasting bandwidth then. Copy.

[jackchit]

Wasting bandwidth then. Copy.

again zero substance, just finger pointing lol
Inappropriate remark removed.

[stateofgrace]

again zero substance, just finger pointing lol
Whats the beverage of choice tonight AW?

Have you actually got a point to make?

Please state it and end the suspense.

[jackchit]

Have you actually got a point to make?

Please state it and end the suspense.

same question to roberts
and undesired wallnut

[stateofgrace]

Indeed, so you have nothing to say? You have no opinion?

Inappropriate remark removed.

[Gravy]

This post is full to the brim with facts

Said the Inappropriate remark removed. person who

1) Said he was glad that his wife's death allowed him to pursue his "truth" activities
2) Said he was traveling to New York to murder me
3) Said he met me in New York and made me urinate on myself
4) Said he met me in New York and I threatened him
5) Started two websites for the purpose of calling me gay

Get help, Mr. Holmes. You are seriously ill.

[cloudshipsrule]

I'm worried that these fundamentalists are going to keep up with their nonesense violence until the world is covered with their allah-beliefs.

You've reason to be, because that is precisely their agenda. (Think the Moors and Spain.)

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

again zero substance, just finger pointing lol
Whats the beverage of choice tonight AW?
It's utterly fascinating that even your insults are unintelligible. How do you manage it?

[twinstead]

again zero substance, just finger pointing lol
Whats the beverage of choice tonight AW?

Excellent! Crazy people ROCK!

[Travis]

Excellent! Crazy people ROCK!

Except when they don't, which is pretty much all the time. kinda like when I do, which is pretty much none of the time.

[Travis]

The question in the poll is too simplistic. Of course Islamic Terrorism "exists."

Example of Islamic Terrorism: A Palestinian teenager puts a bomb in his backpack and walks into a cafe, killing himself and perhaps one or two others.

Example of non-Islamic Terrorism: A group of highly trained agents, trained and backed by all the resources of a state, and while disguised as "Islamists," hijack four airplanes and rig them to fly remotely to their targets. Two of the targets are penetrated and rigged for demolition beforehand, to maximize the psychological trauma of the attacks and induce the US to wars in the Middle East.

Given the above scenario and the drastically differing magnitudes of threat, we can say that for all intents and purposes, Islamic Terror really does not exist.

Even if we suppose that your hypothetical.... no that's insulting to hypotheticals.... even if your contrived, made-up, illogical story were true, which it isn't, that's pretty harsh to say that all those innocent victims in the Cafe weren't victims of terrorism. Even if it is of a vastly different scale terrorism is still terrorism.

[PhantomWolf]

Example of Islamic Terrorism: A Palestinian teenager puts a bomb in his backpack and walks into a cafe, killing himself and perhaps one or two others.

You mean like these?

Apr 6, 1994 - Eight people killed in a car-bomb attack on a bus

Apr 13, 1994 - Five people were killed in a suicide bombing attack on a bus

Oct 19, 1994 – Twenty Two killed in suicide bombing attack on bus

Jan 22, 1995 - Two bombs kill 21 people.

Apr 9, 1995 - 8 killed when bus is hit van-bomb

Jul 24, 1995 - 6 killed in a suicide bomb attack on a bus

Aug 21, 1995 - 4 killed in a suicide bombing of bus.

Feb 25, 1996 - 26 killed in a suicide bombing of bus.

Mar 3, 1996 - 19 killed in a suicide bombing of bus.

Mar 4, 1996 – 13 killed by Suicide Bomber

Jul 30, 1997 - 16 people were killed and 178 by two consecutive suicide bombings

Sep 4, 1997 - Five people were killed and 181 wounded in three suicide bombings

Feb 14, 2001 - Eight people were killed and 25 injured when a bus driven into people at bus-stop

May 18, 2001 - Five killed, over 100 wounded in the suicide bombing attack.

June 1, 2001 - 21 people were killed and 120 wounded by suicide bomber

Aug 9, 2001 - 15 people were killed, including 7 children, and about 130 injured in suicide bombing

Dec 1, 2001 - 11 people were killed and about 180 injured when explosive devices were detonated by two suicide bombers

Dec 2, 2001 - 15 people were killed and 40 injured in a suicide bombing

Mar 2, 2002 - Eleven people were killed and over 50 were injured in a suicide bombing

Mar 9, 2002 - 11 people were killed and 54 injured by suicide bomber

Mar 20, 2002 - Seven killed and about 30 wounded in suicide bombing on bus

Mar 27, 2002 - 30 people were killed and 140 injured in suicide bombing

Mar 31, 2002 - 15 people were killed and over 40 injured in a suicide bombing in Haifa

Apr 10, 2002 - Eight people killed and 22 injured in a suicide bombing on bus

Apr 12, 2002 - Six people killed and 104 wounded by suicide bomber

May 7, 2002 - 16 people killed and 55 wounded by suicide bomber

June 5, 2002 - 17 people killed and 38 injured by car bomb driven into bus

June 18, 2002 - 19 people killed and 74 injured in a suicide bombing of bus

June 19, 2002 - Seven people killed and 50 injured by suicide bomber at bus stop

July 16, 2002 - Nine people killed and 20 injured in a terrorist attack on bus

July 17, 2002 - Five people killed 40injured in a double suicide bombing

July 31, 2002 - Nine killed and 85 wounded in bomb explosion

Aug 4, 2002 - Nine people killed and 50 wounded in a suicide bombing of bus

Sept 19, 2002 - Six people killed and 70 wounded in bus bombing

Oct 21, 2002 - 14 people killed and 50 wounded by a car bomb blowing up bus

Nov 21, 2002 - Eleven people killed and 50 wounded by suicide bomber on bus

Jan 5, 2003 - Twenty-two people were killed and about 120 wounded in a double suicide bombing

Mar 5, 2003 - Seventeen people were killed and 53 wounded in suicide bombing of bus

May 18, 2003 - Seven people killed and 20 wounded in suicide bombing on bus

May 22, 2003 - Nine injured by roadside bomb detonated next to bus

June 11, 2003 - Seventeen people were killed and over 100 wounded in a suicide bombing on bus

Aug 19, 2003 - Twenty-three people killed, over 130 wounded by suicide bomber on bus

Sept 9, 2003 - Nine killed and 30 wounded in a suicide bombing

Sept 9, 2003 - Seven people killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing

Oct 4, 2003 - Twenty-one people were killed, 60 wounded in a suicide bombing

Dec 25, 2003 - Four killed and over 20 wounded in a suicide bombing at a bus stop

Jan 14, 2004 - Four killed, 10 wounded by suicide bomber

Jan 29, 2004 - Eleven people killed and over 50 wounded by suicide bombing of bus

Feb 22, 2004 - Eight people were killed and over 60 wounded in suicide bombing bus

Mar 14, 2004 - Ten people killed and 16 wounded in a double suicide bombing

Aug 31, 2004 - Sixteen people killed and 100 wounded in two suicide bombing attacks.

Feb 25, 2005 - Five people killed and 50 wounded by suicide bomber.

July 12, 2005 - Five people killed and about 90 wounded by suicide bomber

Oct 26, 2005 - Six people killed and 55 wounded by suicide bomber.

Dec 5, 2005 - Five people killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing.

Mar 30, 2006 - Four people were killed by suicide bomber

Apr 17, 2006 - Eleven people were killed and over 60 wounded in a suicide bomber in restaurant.


A-Train, you are an [rule8]

[Travis]

Wow. Good post there PhantomWolf. Puts his statements into perspective.

[Mobyseven]

Yeah. :(

[gumboot]

It's funny how the western media neglect to report the hundreds of Israelis who die in terrorist attacks every year, but if the Israelis dare bulldoze the house of a suicide bomber's family it's on the front page of the world section.

-Gumboot

[jackchit]

Said the deranged person who

1) Said he was glad that his wife's death allowed him to pursue his "truth" activities
2) Said he was traveling to New York to murder me
3) Said he met me in New York and made me urinate on myself
4) Said he met me in New York and I threatened him
5) Started two websites for the purpose of calling me gay

Get help, Mr. Holmes. You are seriously ill.

That sums you up in one post, you are the one who needs help.
Travelling to NY to murder you??? how dramatic.
How is the tour guide business mark? with your superior intellect you should have a better job than showing people where the local toilets are.
Me thinks some kind of chip on your shoulder, this is born out in your jealous attempts to de-bunk those who have made the journey from the obscurity you cannot.

Pathetic.

[firecoins]

It's funny how the western media neglect to report the hundreds of Israelis who die in terrorist attacks every year, but if the Israelis dare bulldoze the house of a suicide bomber's family it's on the front page of the world section.

-Gumboot
Of course. Palestinians just throw rocks. Israelis have bulldozers. Of cours Palestinains are the only victims here.:rolleyes: (Sarcasm)

[~enigma~]

That sums you up in one post, you are the one who needs help.
Travelling to NY to murder you??? how dramatic.
How is the tour guide business mark? with your superior intellect you should have a better job than showing people where the local toilets are.
Me thinks some kind of chip on your shoulder, this is born out in your jealous attempts to de-bunk those who have made the journey from the obscurity you cannot.

Pathetic.
Nobody forgot your death threat to Mark. Did you forget you posted it on LCF? Then you were dumb enough to post that you met Mark in NYC. And now you insist that LCF IP banned you. Do you always suffer from hallucinations?

[firecoins]

Me thinks some kind of chip on your shoulder, this is born out in your jealous attempts to de-bunk those who have made the journey from the obscurity you cannot.

Pathetic.
what? Who are you? You haven't made a name for yourself. Your nobody. You haven't made it out obscurity.

[jackchit]

Nobody forgot your death threat to Mark. Did you forget you posted it on LCF? Then you were dumb enough to post that you met Mark in NYC. And now you insist that LCF IP banned you. Do you always suffer from hallucinations?

if you think that was a death threat then you sir are a joke...

[jackchit]

what? Who are you? You haven't made a name for yourself. Your nobody. You haven't made it out obscurity.

thanks MR somebody ha ha ha

[jackchit]

Gravy has made a name for himself amongst the geeks who are too lazy to provide their own research.
You are following this tour guide and quoting him as gospel.
Can you not comprehend your actions? "i know 911 was as the US government told us because a tour guide said so" lol next you'll be worshipping London cabbies.

[~enigma~]

Gravy has made a name for himself amongst the geeks who are too lazy to provide their own research.
You are following this tour guide and quoting him as gospel.
Can you not comprehend your actions? "i know 911 was as the US government told us because a tour guide said so" lol next you'll be worshipping London cabbies.
Show me anywhere I quoted Mark you [rule8]ing liar.

[JimBenArm]

Gravy has made a name for himself amongst the geeks who are too lazy to provide their own research.
You are following this tour guide and quoting him as gospel.
Can you not comprehend your actions? "i know 911 was as the US government told us because a tour guide said so" lol next you'll be worshipping London cabbies.
What happened? Kids forget it's Father's Day, yet again? So, you have to take it out on someone, right?
Sorry, not our fault.
Now, put the bottle down, and resume posting when you're sober again.

[stateofgrace]

Gravy has made a name for himself amongst the geeks who are too lazy to provide their own research.
You are following this tour guide and quoting him as gospel.
Can you not comprehend your actions? "i know 911 was as the US government told us because a tour guide said so" lol next you'll be worshipping London cabbies.

Actually I believe the story has told by these people (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2525424&postcount=3) why do you not?

The USG did not tell me anything, those that were there did and those that investigated on my behave did.

[jackchit]

What happened? Kids forget it's Father's Day, yet again? So, you have to take it out on someone, right?
Sorry, not our fault.
Now, put the bottle down, and resume posting when you're sober again.

again no substance just hypothosis
is that all you got?

[jackchit]

Actually I believe the story has told by these people (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2525424&postcount=3) why do you not?

The USG did not tell me anything, those that were did and those that investigated on my behave did.

lol sorry bit you need to think for yourself.
Don't be told what to think, unless you are weak, are you weak?

[parky76]

"Think for yourself"....is the Truthers way of saying "follow what we believe".

I love now the 9-11 Deniars make it seem like those who believe the real truth about 9-11 are somehow not thinking for themselves, not thinking rationally, not using common sense. This is the game they play. They KNOW very well that one can think for themselves and decide that 9-11 was NOT an inside job. They just use this "think for yourself" b.s. to argue that only conspiracy theorists are sane...while those that agree with the government are insane. Its a lovely tactic...but it wont work.

[jackchit]

"Think for yourself"....is the Truthers way of saying "follow what we believe".

I love now the 9-11 Deniars make it seem like those who believe the real truth about 9-11 are somehow not thinking for themselves, not thinking rationally, not using common sense. This is the game they play. They KNOW very well that one can think for themselves and decide that 9-11 was NOT an inside job. They just use this "think for yourself" b.s. to argue that only conspiracy theorists are sane...while those that agree with the government are insane. Its a lovely tactic...but it wont work.

Its denier not deniar, please this is too easy.

[stateofgrace]

lol sorry bit you need to think for yourself.
Don't be told what to think, unless you are weak, are you weak?

Indeed Jack I am weak as a weak thing. In fact I am so weak I like protecting mass murderers, I know I am being lied to by all those people that were there and disagree with you and your loony theories.

Unlike you Jacky boy, a super star, Mr Universe, saviour of humanity, a fierce twoofy warrior out to help set me free, please, give it up and go to bed sun beam.

[PhantomWolf]

Facts are that gravy is a tour guide who is trying to inflate his own sense of self importance

And you are qualified in?

Dylan is qualified in?

Killtown is qualified in?

Fetzer is qualified in?

Steven Jones is qualified in?

Alex Jones in qualified in?

[jackchit]

You mean like these?

Apr 6, 1994 - Eight people killed in a car-bomb attack on a bus

Apr 13, 1994 - Five people were killed in a suicide bombing attack on a bus

Oct 19, 1994 – Twenty Two killed in suicide bombing attack on bus

Jan 22, 1995 - Two bombs kill 21 people.

Apr 9, 1995 - 8 killed when bus is hit van-bomb

Jul 24, 1995 - 6 killed in a suicide bomb attack on a bus

Aug 21, 1995 - 4 killed in a suicide bombing of bus.

Feb 25, 1996 - 26 killed in a suicide bombing of bus.

Mar 3, 1996 - 19 killed in a suicide bombing of bus.

Mar 4, 1996 – 13 killed by Suicide Bomber

Jul 30, 1997 - 16 people were killed and 178 by two consecutive suicide bombings

Sep 4, 1997 - Five people were killed and 181 wounded in three suicide bombings

Feb 14, 2001 - Eight people were killed and 25 injured when a bus driven into people at bus-stop

May 18, 2001 - Five killed, over 100 wounded in the suicide bombing attack.

June 1, 2001 - 21 people were killed and 120 wounded by suicide bomber

Aug 9, 2001 - 15 people were killed, including 7 children, and about 130 injured in suicide bombing

Dec 1, 2001 - 11 people were killed and about 180 injured when explosive devices were detonated by two suicide bombers

Dec 2, 2001 - 15 people were killed and 40 injured in a suicide bombing

Mar 2, 2002 - Eleven people were killed and over 50 were injured in a suicide bombing

Mar 9, 2002 - 11 people were killed and 54 injured by suicide bomber

Mar 20, 2002 - Seven killed and about 30 wounded in suicide bombing on bus

Mar 27, 2002 - 30 people were killed and 140 injured in suicide bombing

Mar 31, 2002 - 15 people were killed and over 40 injured in a suicide bombing in Haifa

Apr 10, 2002 - Eight people killed and 22 injured in a suicide bombing on bus

Apr 12, 2002 - Six people killed and 104 wounded by suicide bomber

May 7, 2002 - 16 people killed and 55 wounded by suicide bomber

June 5, 2002 - 17 people killed and 38 injured by car bomb driven into bus

June 18, 2002 - 19 people killed and 74 injured in a suicide bombing of bus

June 19, 2002 - Seven people killed and 50 injured by suicide bomber at bus stop

July 16, 2002 - Nine people killed and 20 injured in a terrorist attack on bus

July 17, 2002 - Five people killed 40injured in a double suicide bombing

July 31, 2002 - Nine killed and 85 wounded in bomb explosion

Aug 4, 2002 - Nine people killed and 50 wounded in a suicide bombing of bus

Sept 19, 2002 - Six people killed and 70 wounded in bus bombing

Oct 21, 2002 - 14 people killed and 50 wounded by a car bomb blowing up bus

Nov 21, 2002 - Eleven people killed and 50 wounded by suicide bomber on bus

Jan 5, 2003 - Twenty-two people were killed and about 120 wounded in a double suicide bombing

Mar 5, 2003 - Seventeen people were killed and 53 wounded in suicide bombing of bus

May 18, 2003 - Seven people killed and 20 wounded in suicide bombing on bus

May 22, 2003 - Nine injured by roadside bomb detonated next to bus

June 11, 2003 - Seventeen people were killed and over 100 wounded in a suicide bombing on bus

Aug 19, 2003 - Twenty-three people killed, over 130 wounded by suicide bomber on bus

Sept 9, 2003 - Nine killed and 30 wounded in a suicide bombing

Sept 9, 2003 - Seven people killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing

Oct 4, 2003 - Twenty-one people were killed, 60 wounded in a suicide bombing

Dec 25, 2003 - Four killed and over 20 wounded in a suicide bombing at a bus stop

Jan 14, 2004 - Four killed, 10 wounded by suicide bomber

Jan 29, 2004 - Eleven people killed and over 50 wounded by suicide bombing of bus

Feb 22, 2004 - Eight people were killed and over 60 wounded in suicide bombing bus

Mar 14, 2004 - Ten people killed and 16 wounded in a double suicide bombing

Aug 31, 2004 - Sixteen people killed and 100 wounded in two suicide bombing attacks.

Feb 25, 2005 - Five people killed and 50 wounded by suicide bomber.

July 12, 2005 - Five people killed and about 90 wounded by suicide bomber

Oct 26, 2005 - Six people killed and 55 wounded by suicide bomber.

Dec 5, 2005 - Five people killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing.

Mar 30, 2006 - Four people were killed by suicide bomber

Apr 17, 2006 - Eleven people were killed and over 60 wounded in a suicide bomber in restaurant.


A-Train, you are an [rule8]

Now list the civilians killed by US/UK forces between those years ( you began in 1994) I wonder which is the greater number hmmm.
Now who are the real terrorists?
BTW I know you won't because it doesn't meet your agenda.

[jackchit]

And you are qualified in?

Dylan is qualified in?

Killtown is qualified in?

Fetzer is qualified in?

Steven Jones is qualified in?

Alex Jones in qualified in?

More than tour guide boy.

[jackchit]

The facts are these....roberts is a tour guide and no more qualified than a cockroach.
Yet you still follow him, thats laughable at the very least.
I have no reason to believe Avery, Jones, Fetzer etc but the fact that some non entity tries to de-bunk them shows they have some substance in thier work unlike roberts who has no work of his own.

[PhantomWolf]

BTW I know you won't because it doesn't meet your agenda.

Okay here's a list of all civilians killed by british and American suicide bombers 1994-2007.


.....


Done.

By the way, my only "agenda" was to show the lie of A-Train that suicide bombers only killed "1 or 2 other people"

More than tour guide boy.

Well then, you should have no problems in giving those qualifications and showing how they are relevant to studying 9/11. Yet me guess. You won't because it doesn't fit your agenda.

[stateofgrace]

Now list the civilians killed by US/UK forces between those years ( you began in 1994) I wonder which is the greater number hmmm.
Now who are the real terrorists?
BTW I know you won't because it doesn't meet your agenda.

So you are now accusing the UK armed forces of being terrorists?

Wow you brave twoofy warrior, I am so impressed,have you actually got the nerve to say it to them or is it better to rant from your bedroom?

[PhantomWolf]

The facts are these....roberts is a tour guide and no more qualified than a cockroach.

Still wrong Jack. Look up what it takes to get a Guide Licence in NYC and then take a look at Mark's... um mark(?)

Yet you still follow him, thats laughable at the very least.

I have never followed Mark, I have read his stuff and find it well researched, but most of my understanding comes from talking about it with two engineers, one of whom is British and my brother-in-law. Unlike you, I don't have a thing for Mark. You obviously do however because you spend all your time running about barking at him, how obsessed with the man is that? That some time off Jack, breath some fresh air and stop with your fanatical Gravy obsession.

[Par]

Now list the civilians killed by US/UK forces between those years ( you began in 1994) I wonder which is the greater number


You seem to have defined terrorism as any action that results in the death of civilians. Surely you can’t be that simple minded.

[gumboot]

That sums you up in one post, you are the one who needs help.
Travelling to NY to murder you??? how dramatic.
How is the tour guide business mark? with your superior intellect you should have a better job than showing people where the local toilets are.
Me thinks some kind of chip on your shoulder, this is born out in your jealous attempts to de-bunk those who have made the journey from the obscurity you cannot.

Pathetic.

if you think that was a death threat then you sir are a joke...

thanks MR somebody ha ha ha

Gravy has made a name for himself amongst the geeks who are too lazy to provide their own research.
You are following this tour guide and quoting him as gospel.
Can you not comprehend your actions? "i know 911 was as the US government told us because a tour guide said so" lol next you'll be worshipping London cabbies.

lol sorry bit you need to think for yourself.
Don't be told what to think, unless you are weak, are you weak?

More than tour guide boy.

The facts are these....roberts is a tour guide and no more qualified than a cockroach.
Yet you still follow him, thats laughable at the very least.
I have no reason to believe Avery, Jones, Fetzer etc but the fact that some non entity tries to de-bunk them shows they have some substance in thier work unlike roberts who has no work of his own.



Please get help. You are not well.

-Gumboot

[Mobyseven]

Its denier not deniar, please this is too easy.

It's "it's", not "its".

Those who live in glass houses, Jack...

[Mobyseven]

It's funny how the western media neglect to report the hundreds of Israelis who die in terrorist attacks every year, but if the Israelis dare bulldoze the house of a suicide bomber's family it's on the front page of the world section.

-Gumboot

I could never understand how some people in the west can be so narrow minded that they demonise an entire nation of people...then I met conspiracy theorists.

[Caspian88]

Well, this thread went downhill in a hurry.

[JimBenArm]

again no substance just hypothosis
is that all you got?

Its denier not deniar, please this is too easy.
It's hypothesis not hypothosis, please this it too easy.

:Banane09:

[The Doc]

Hey Jack.

If Gravy is so worthless, why have you put so much time into slandering him? You hypocrite. All I've ever seen you do in this debate regarding 9/11, is spend your time posting personal attacks on Gravy, instead of making an effort to actually address what he is saying. I know it must have sucked to watch your whole belief system go down when it was destroyed by the "debunkers", but this is just pathetic.

Since when has Gravy's occupation affected his research? Please explain, because I am dying to know. I ask you this because if you want to play the tour guide card, it works both ways. If being a tour guide is such a bad thing (which I completely disagree with), are you aware that almost everyone in your "movement" has declined to debate a tour guide?

If a tour guide says 1+1=2, and a physicist says 1+1=389, who is correct? By your standards it'd be the physicist.

Stop it with the ad hominem arguments and provide some substance to your rantings. If you think 9/11 was an inside job, prove it. Put up or shut up. Insulting members of this forum 24/7 doesn't add to your arugment, and that counts for everyone, not just Gravy. It just shows us what a sad individual you are.

I will read your responses when you start providing something worthy of reading. You're wasting everybody's time, including your own. Until that happens, I'm through with reading your garbage.

Good day,
Doc.

[bje]

The facts are these....roberts is a tour guide and no more qualified than a cockroach.
Yet you still follow him, thats laughable at the very least.
I have no reason to believe Avery, Jones, Fetzer etc but the fact that some non entity tries to de-bunk them shows they have some substance in thier work unlike roberts who has no work of his own.


Jackchit, you are not doing too well here. You would benefit by taking Steven Jones new training course. (http://tinyurl.com/yqq2lx)

[parky76]

Its denier not deniar, please this is too easy.

I guess my post made sense, since ******** chose to make fun of my poor spelling habits, rather then discuss the message I was trying to convey. I'm doing well..=)

[Travis]

Now list the civilians killed by US/UK forces between those years ( you began in 1994) I wonder which is the greater number hmmm.
Now who are the real terrorists?
BTW I know you won't because it doesn't meet your agenda.

Unless the US/UK forces are deliberately targeting civilians as a matter of policy you can't use the term "terrorism" in regards to said forces.

But the Insurgency in Iraq doesn't show any such regard towards civilians.

Feb 2, 2004 Irbil double suicide bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Irbil_bombings) kills 117 people who had gathered to celebrate Eid ul-Adha.

Mar 2, 2004 nine bombs in Ashura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashura_massacre) kill 170 people celebrating a festival.

Feb 28, 2005 bombing in Al Hillah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Al_Hillah_bombing) kills 127 people.

Jul 16, 2005 bombing in Musayyib (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Musayyib_bombing) kills 100 people in a marketplace.

Sep 14, 2005 bombing in Baghdad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_September_2005_Baghdad_bombing) kills 112 construction workers, Al Qaeda claims responsibility.

Nov 23, 2006 bomb and mortar attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_November_2006_Sadr_City_bombings) in Sadr City kills 215 people.

Feb 3, 2007 truck bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_February_2007_Baghdad_market_bombing) in Baghdad kills 135 people in a marketplace.

Mar 6, 2007 bombing in Al Hillah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Al_Hillah_bombings) kills 120 people religious pilgrims on their way to Karbala.

Mar 27, 2007 truck bombing in Tal Afar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Tal_Afar_bombings) kills 152 people who were lured to the truck with promises of free wheat.

Apr 18, 2007 bombing in Baghdad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_April_2007_Baghdad_bombings) kills 198 people mostly in a market.

But, sure, the US/UK forces are the real monsters, eh?

By the way this is just a list of the deadliest attacks.

[Par]

Even ignoring his unhealthy obsession with Gravy, perhaps Jack really is that simple-minded. He’s trying a version of a false tu quoque ploy that elements of the religious occasionally deploy against atheists. “You say we all operate on blind faith, but you all just do what Richard Dawkins tells you! LOLZ!”

[Par]

I guess my post made sense, since ******** chose to make fun of my poor spelling habits, rather then discuss the message I was trying to convey. I'm doing well..=)


It’s also fairly amusing that that’s the second time on this thread alone that he’s criticised someone’s spelling and the second time he’s made a complete fool out of himself in the process.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

The facts are these....roberts is a tour guide and no more qualified than a cockroach.
Argumentum ad hominem - Strike 1!
Yet you still follow him, thats laughable at the very least.
Strawman fallacy - Strike 2!
I have no reason to believe Avery, Jones, Fetzer etc but the fact that some non entity tries to de-bunk them shows they have some substance in thier work unlike roberts who has no work of his own.
Circular reasoning fallacy - Strike 3!

Yer outta here!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

It's "it's", not "its".

Those who live in glass houses, Jack...
And if he wanted to make it one sentence it should have been, ". . . ; please, this is too easy."

[Dave Rogers]

Circular reasoning fallacy - Strike 3!

Are you sure about that one? It looks more like an ad hominem once removed - an attempt to validate an argument by attempting to discredit its detractors. It depends whether Jackchit would believe Avery, Jones and Fetzer less if a celebrity (say, for example, Paris Hilton or Jade Goody?) attempted to debunk them.

Dave

[Travis]

Are you sure about that one? It looks more like an ad hominem once removed - an attempt to validate an argument by attempting to discredit its detractors. It depends whether Jackchit would believe Avery, Jones and Fetzer less if a celebrity (say, for example, Paris Hilton or Jade Goody?) attempted to debunk them.

Dave

Paris Hilton debating Fetzer! Dear God, I'd actually pay money to see that debacle. Neither would have a clue what they were saying let alone what the other one is saying. It would be like a train wreck of stubborn vapidity and impenetrable cluelessness.

Now Avery debating Paris Hilton would be awful. Avery would just hit on her and, seeing how it is Paris Hilton, he might actually succeed.:eek:

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Are you sure about that one? It looks more like an ad hominem once removed - an attempt to validate an argument by attempting to discredit its detractors. It depends whether Jackchit would believe Avery, Jones and Fetzer less if a celebrity (say, for example, Paris Hilton or Jade Goody?) attempted to debunk them.

Dave
Well, it really strikes me as a inverse (converse?) application of argumentum ad ignoratium, but he's basically saying
Person A says X
Person B counters X
Therefore Person A has a valid point

Upon further reflection, it is merely a matter of cognitive bias. He's saying
Person B must be wrong
Person B critiques person A
Therefore Persona A must be right

[cloudshipsrule]

DipShi(rule8) wrote:

if you think that was a death threat then you sir are a joke...

I believe there should be a comma in there somewhere.

[Darth Rotor]

The facts are these....roberts is a tour guide and no more qualified than a cockroach.
Yet you still follow him, thats laughable at the very least.
I have no reason to believe Avery, Jones, Fetzer etc but the fact that some non entity tries to de-bunk them shows they have some substance in thier work unlike roberts who has no work of his own.
So, are you telling us that the fact that the troofers are trying to "debunk" the official story gives the official story a substance unlike you, who has done no work of his own? :p

Unqualified, Mark Roberts? He doesn't need credentials to know how to work hard, nor to know how to do research of the sort a high school or college student can do.

Albert Einstein was a mail clerk, so he must have been unqualified to work on his theories of relativity. Einstein's job was mail, his passion was physics and math.

Gravy's job, his "pays the bills" job, is as tour guide. This helps him love New York. (He obviously does.) That passion drives him to take on this crusade.

Mark is a smart enough guy to do some research and hard work. His passion fuels his efforts to be correct, and to be able to substantiate his claims.

Wait, here is another example.

Tom Clancy was "just an insurance man" who wasn't qualified to be an author. F*** me, Clancy wrote some fine books and is now an author of some acclaim. Hunt For Red October was excellent, the rest good enough.

Jack, your reasoning stinks.

DR

[jackchit]

all the munchkins rallying around the un-qualified "expert"
The next time you question the credentials of an inside job claimant, please refer back to this thread.
You clause 28ers are hypocritical to the extreme

[JimBenArm]

all the munchkins rallying around the un-qualified "expert"
The next time you question the credentials of an inside job claimant, please refer back to this thread.
You clause 28ers are hypocritical to the extreme
Nah, I just like poking fun at you. Because it's so easy!

You're sure cute when you're angry!

>smooch<

[chipmunk stew]

Man, it must be so frustrating to have your fantasies demolished by a tour guide.

[jackchit]

Nah, I just like poking fun at you. Because it's so easy!

You're sure cute when you're angry!

>smooch<

lol angry? say no more
Oh and chipmonk stew, gravy has debunked nothing.

[JimBenArm]

lol angry? say no more
Oh and chipmonk stew, gravy has debunked nothing.
Yeah.

He still hasn't debunked that you're cute when you're angry.

Oh, well. Guess you showed him, didn't you!

I still think you're sumpin, punkin!

>kisses<

[WildCat]

Albert Einstein was a mail clerk, so he must have been unqualified to work on his theories of relativity. Einstein's job was mail, his passion was physics and math.
Not quite, he was a patent clerk at the patent office.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

nvm ain't worth the bandwidth to reply to his drek.

[chipmunk stew]

gravy has debunked nothing.
Who said anything about debunking? He's just a tour guide, after all. He's merely taken you on a tour of all the ways you are wrong.

[Gravy]

Oh and chipmonk stew, gravy has debunked nothing.It's true: I'm that good. Today I'm gonna open up a can of whup-ass on the concept of infinity.