Am I a skeptic or a cynic?

[Brattus]

I am not quite sure what the difference is. But I'll give you a very brief description of my belief structure and perhaps you can tell me which I am.
If either one at all.
I have no paranormal beliefs at all. I have never had any paranormal beliefs even as a child.
I think it would be very cool and very disturbing at the same time if the paranormal did actually exist.
I love good ghost story's and movies about the paranormal but I have never thought that any of it was real or even could be.

Either? Both? Neither?

Thanks for your input!

[noblecaboose]

I would call you a skeptic.

[Brattus]

Thank You!

[-Fran-]

I am not quite sure what the difference is. But I'll give you a very brief description of my belief structure and perhaps you can tell me which I am.
If either one at all.
I have no paranormal beliefs at all. I have never had any paranormal beliefs even as a child.
I think it would be very cool and very disturbing at the same time if the paranormal did actually exist.
I love good ghost story's and movies about the paranormal but I have never thought that any of it was real or even could be.

Either? Both? Neither?

Thanks for your input!

I couldn't tell you, but I would like to know the same thing.

I would agree with all your statements here. I even tried to have some woo beliefs when I was a kid/teenager, because it seemed cool, and many of my friends had, but I always ended up with this "OK... what now???"-feeling. Nothing ever happened, and there was nothing to feel or get... I couldn't believe in this stuff, or religion, or anything like that. Still I wouldn't say I was cynical. I trusted people and got burned many times.

I think I was always skeptical, maybe I have become cynical...

Maybe that's the difference, you come with a skeptical mindset, but you become cynical from experiences??

OK, I may be totally on the wrong track here, and it may be much too late for me to make sense :o

[Brattus]

Well perhaps I should of added that I believe every single person who claims to be a psychic is a liar and a fraud.

[RSLancastr]

Whichever you are, Happy Birthday!

[Senex]

Well perhaps I should of added that I believe every single person who claims to be a psychic is a liar and a fraud.

Here is the difference... I don't claim to be a psychic but if you dined with me at a restaraunt I might bend your spoon, restore your torn up napkin, put your water glass through the table, put your marked quarter into a sugar packet or some other assorted nonsense (paper napkins and sugar packets, now you know where I dine). If you smile and enjoy what I do but know darn well it was a trick -- then you are a skeptic. If you insist on deconstructing every move I made before you could digest your meal -- then you are a cynic.

See -- it's all about me even on your birthday :D Have a Happy Birthday!

[Wheezebucket]

Happy b-day, you nutty skeptic!

[normdoering]

If you smile and enjoy what I do but know darn well it was a trick -- then you are a skeptic. If you insist on deconstructing every move I made before you could digest your meal -- then you are a cynic.

I'd smile at the good tricks, but rip on the ones I've seen and know too well.

So does that make me a skepnic or cyntic?

[Brattus]

Here is the difference... I don't claim to be a psychic but if you dined with me at a restaraunt I might bend your spoon, restore your torn up napkin, put your water glass through the table, put your marked quarter into a sugar packet or some other assorted nonsense (paper napkins and sugar packets, now you know where I dine). If you smile and enjoy what I do but know darn well it was a trick -- then you are a skeptic. If you insist on deconstructing every move I made before you could digest your meal -- then you are a cynic.

See -- it's all about me even on your birthday :D Have a Happy Birthday!

Ahh I see! Thank you! I would enjoy that dinner very much and wouldn't even ask you how you did it. I love magic!
Thank You everyone for the happy Bdays! 45 here. The future is bleak indeed!
LOL!

[Joe_Black]

Brattus you a skeptic in the true sense of the word in that you don't care either way so you can be objective. Most people however who call themselves skeptics I found wear this title with pride are actually people who act from a ideological viewpoint (usually atheists or people who have had a bad encounter with religion some time in there life (myself included)) and will use every dirty underhanded trick in the book to try to win a arguement, even when they loose they claim victory. Alot like believers actually.

[AZAtheist]

A skeptic doubts the factual claims, the science. A cynic doubts based on the the belief that everything is motivated by human greed.

[Slimething]

Brattus,

You wrote nothing about pessimistic thinking so you are a skeptic. I am very disappointed in you and hope you get better. Happy birthday, anyway. :)

[arthwollipot]

Seems to me that a cynic always views things negatively. I am skeptical of unfounded claims. But I do not assume that the people who make those claims do so for selfish reasons of self-aggrandisement. They may (and in my experience, usually are) be simply mistaken.

So if you see things like I do, then I would label you a skeptic.

[Graham Ross]

To me a cynic is completely dismissive of evidence, whereas a sceptic can be swayed by evidence. So being a sceptic means researching and having good reasons for your beliefs.

[Brattus]

Thanks Joe!::) Very funny Slime!:D Well I try not to be negative but I must admit I get quite upset when I read about "psychics" who take advantage of the desperate and grieving.
I have had a very negative experince with a "psychic" 15 years ago at the time of my Fathers death. The relationship with my Sister as yet to recover from. So perhaps I am cynical when it comes to "psychics".

[Brattus]

That makes a lot of sense Graham. Thanks!

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well perhaps I should of added that I believe every single person who claims to be a psychic is a liar and a fraud.Some are self deluded, some merely lack critical thinking skills. How do you categorize those that believe in the woo themselves?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Definition of a cynic from the web. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=1rO&defl=en&q=define:cynic&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)# someone who is critical of the motives of others
# a member of a group of ancient Greek philosophers who advocated the doctrine that virtue is the only good and that the essence of virtue is self-control
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# The Cynics were a small but influential school of ancient philosophers. Their name is thought to be derived either from the building in Athens called Cynosarges, the earliest home of the school, or from the Greek word for a dog (kuon), in contemptuous allusion to the uncouth and aggressive manners adopted by the members of the school. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynic

# One of the seven attitudes. Its positive pole is contradiction; its negative pole is denigration. Cynics view the world in terms of what isn't, or of what won't work.
www.summerjoy.com/Glossary.html

# A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
www.answers.com/topic/the-devil-s-dictionary

# Literally, in the Greek, "dog-like," the Cynics "barked" at society, snapping at its heels, attempting to awaken society from its conventional slumber. Although tradition traces the origin of Cynicism to one Antisthenes, a pupil of Socrates (469-399 BC), it was the legendary Diogenes (ca. 400-325 BC) who made Cynicism so famous, its continuity being established for over a millennium.
www.apologetics.org/glossary.html

Definition of a skeptic from the web. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=9rO&q=define%3Askeptic&btnG=Search)# One of the seven attitudes. Its positive pole is investigation; its negative pole is suspicion. Skeptics view the world with doubt.
www.summerjoy.com/Glossary.html

# someone who habitually doubts accepted beliefs
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# Skepticism (British spelling: Scepticism) can mean:* Philosophical skepticism - a philosophical position in which people choose to critically examine whether the knowledge and perceptions that they have are actually true, and whether or not one can ever be said to have absolutely true knowledge; or * Scientific skepticism - a scientific, or practical, position in which one questions the veracity of claims, and seeks to prove or disprove them using the scientific method.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptic

# The Skeptics Society is a nonprofit organization devoted to promoting scientific skepticism and resisting the spread of pseudoscience, superstition, and irrational beliefs. The group was founded by Michael Shermer, who as of 2004 remains one of the chief officers and publisher of the society's periodical, Skeptic magazine.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptic_(magazine)

[Brattus]

I guess I think of the believers as foolish or under extreme situations desperate and grieving.
Well from the definitions you posted I am for sure a skeptic.
But as far as those who claim to psychic. Those who claim psychic powers are liars. Those who claim psychic powers and charge money for psychic services are liars and frauds.
I simply can not believe that someone without a mental illness could believe they have a psychic power when reality around them speaks for itself.

[Kahalachan]

Here is what I would say differentiates a skeptic from a cynic.

A skeptic says or thinks "Show me compelling evidence and I'll believe"
A cynic says or thinks "I won't believe regardless of what you show me"

A holocaust denier is not a skeptic. Someone might initially question the holocaust cause it is something extraordinary and they want to see extraordinary evidence. But we have our evidence and if they see it and still deny, they are a cynic.

I think the million dollar challenge is a good boundary for skeptic and cynic. If a psychic demonstrates their talents, they show evidence and win the money.

[Brattus]

Well I for one am not going to hold my breath waiting for someone who claims to be psychic to walk away with that money.

[Kahalachan]

Me neither. I don't see it happening but I'll allow myself to be proven wrong with insurmountable evidence.

[Brattus]

Well if the JREF pays out then that would be good enough for me.
I must admit though it sure would be cool and creepy all wrapped up into one if psychic abilities were really real.

[Cuddles]

I think the main reason people tend to equate skepticism with cynicism is that it is very hard to be a skeptic for any length of time without becoming very cynical. Just a quick look at the various claims and scams out there will show that a huge amount of woo really is motivated by greed. While cynical does not mean skeptical, any skeptic who manages to remain uncynical is a better man/woman/goat than me.

[Professor Yaffle]

I guess I think of the believers as foolish or under extreme situations desperate and grieving.
Well from the definitions you posted I am for sure a skeptic.
But as far as those who claim to psychic. Those who claim psychic powers are liars. Those who claim psychic powers and charge money for psychic services are liars and frauds.
I simply can not believe that someone without a mental illness could believe they have a psychic power when reality around them speaks for itself.

Just because you can't believe that something happens based on the way your psychology works, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There are skeptical members of this board who once believed they were psychic (I am thinking of one member in particular, whose name escapes me at this moment in time). They were not mentally ill, they were merely brought up in those beliefs. Luckily over the years they have managed to apply critical thinking to those supposed abilities and reverse their beliefs. Many other people may be in the same position, but just haven't for whatever reason applied those thinking processes.

Personally, I think it is relatively easy to delude yourself that you have psychic powers because of tricks our psychology plays on us. Confirmation bias, pattern recognition etc. If you don't know abouth thses things, it would be very easy to believe you are psychic. So I don't think we should go about calling all psychics liars and frauds until we have given them a bit of education in these areas, and a chance to apply them to what has happened in their life.

ETA - I was talking about Miss Anthrope - perhaps she would be able to make this point better than me.

[SYLVESTER1592]

We have recently tried to answer this question of skepticism vs. cynicism for the conspiracy forum in
this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2682393#post2682393)
We concluded that some sort of shift occurs from skepticism to cynicism. It revealed some pretty good ideas about it and also resulted in an attempt to score for absurdity which can be found here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84621) called the "Gravy line". An Excel worksheet (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2694777&postcount=108) which will calculate the score for you is also included. I think it's some sort of expression of the willingness of the skeptics in the conspiracy forum to look at a new claim. Especially in this forum the animosity surrounding a new claim is very high and often leads to the accusation that the forum is not open for ideas, basically calling them cynics.
This is very debatable and some in the thread have tried to describe the reasons for their current position towards new claims.

Hope this helps,

SYL :)

[Skeptic Ginger]

I suggest it may simply be a volume thing. Were our communities more science oriented, skeptics would be less cynical. The less general knowledge in the population about correctly interpreting an evidence based world, the more people there will be who incorrectly interpret evidence. Since that is likely to result in erroneous beliefs, it then follows a skeptic is going to challenge an awful lot of people about an awful lot of beliefs. It appears cynical but really it's just the volume of woo beliefs a skeptic deals with.

[polkablues]

It's been said that a cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I would say that a skeptic is someone who knows the price of delusion and the value of reality.

[Hindmost]

Not sure that the terms are mutually exclusive...always thought of myself as a skeptical cynic...or a cynical skeptic. Anyhow, it works.

glenn:boxedin:

[Miss Anthrope]

Judging by our conversations, I'll say you're a skeptic with a little bit of cynicism. You're in good company ;)

[Macoy]

I had a friend who claimed to be psychic but her ability stemmed from randomly produced positive-feedback created by (normally) good-natured cold readings whilst all participants were pretty well stewed.

This cynical analysis of the situation was only possible through painstaking sceptical research.

[Graham Ross]

I like Isaac Asimov's definition of a sceptic:

Don't you believe in flying saucers, they ask me? Don't you believe in telepathy? — in ancient astronauts? — in the Bermuda triangle? — in life after death?
No, I reply. No, no, no, no, and again no.
One person recently, goaded into desperation by the litany of unrelieved negation, burst out "Don't you believe in anything?"
"Yes", I said. "I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be.