The FDNY, Rudy Giuliani and 9/11

[Alt+F4]

The conspiracy liars, in particular the mentally challenged at “We Are Change”, go around screaming that 9/11 first responders are demanding a new investigation. That is a total distortion of what some members of the FDNY are complaining about. FDNY members have been protesting at Giuliani campaign events but none of their concerns are about 9/11 being “an inside job”.

From today’s New York Times:

Interviews with more than 50 firefighters and department officers show a mix of admiration and disdain for the former mayor. Many firefighters praise his years in office, citing his success in reducing crime and his leadership after the terrorist attacks. Others harbor a deep resentment for what they describe as his poor treatment of the department before and after Sept. 11.

The major FDNY complaints against Giuliani:
- He’s made a lot of (blood) money from 9/11 speeches.
- He refused the FDNY pay raises for two year in the 1990s.
- His decision several weeks after the attacks to reduce the number of firefighters allowed to search for remains at ground zero.

As for what needs a new investigation, FDNY members want to know why Giuliani allowed firefighters to continue using the same defective radios that failed during the 1993 WTC attack.

In the five plus years since 9/11 about half the FDNY first responders from that day have since retired. I dare any 9/11 troofer to find one of the folks still on the job, go to their firehouse and tell them that it wasn’t 19 Islamic terrorists but instead it was missiles, no planes, controlled demolitions, microwave ovens from Planet 9 or whatever else their mental illness manifests.


Linky: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/nyregion/17firefighters.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin (Linky: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/nyregion/17firefighters.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin)

[parky76]

The 9-11 Deniars also argue that Guiliani had foreknowledge of the collapse of the 1st tower, and he willingly failed to warn the firefighters to get out of the building.

Hence, Guiliani was part of the conspiracy, he is a murderer, and will be tried for mass murder...after the "revolution" comes.

I'm just glad that the 9-11 Deniars would never stoop to anything more then just harrasing Rudy. They have a deep respect for human rights and would never...ever...do something rash..right?

[MarkyX]

The 9-11 Deniars also argue that Guiliani had foreknowledge of the collapse of the 1st tower, and he willingly failed to warn the firefighters to get out of the building.


I know! It's not like the firefighters weren't giving out the warnings!

[gumboot]

Assistant Chief Joseph Callan in the Lobby of WTC1 ordered a full evacuation due to structural instability at 0932EDT - almost half an hour before WTC2 collapsed.

Unfortunately FDNY chiefs (incorrectly) thought the radio responder wasn't working, and without the responder communication was poor.

In addition with the large number of firemen and huge numbers of off duty responders, the radio communication channels were severely overloaded.

Lastly, many firemen in WTC1 heard the evacuation orders and ignored them.

-Gumboot

[Travis]

In one building the radio repeater was working but they thought, incorrectly, that it wasn't right? What about in the other building?


Shoot, and I just accidentally deleted my NIST files. Guess I'll have to go get them again and look this up.

[gumboot]

In one building the radio repeater was working but they thought, incorrectly, that it wasn't right? What about in the other building?


Shoot, and I just accidentally deleted my NIST files. Guess I'll have to go get them again and look this up.



The repeater was on the roof of WTC5 and was used for the entire WTC complex.

-Gumboot

[Travis]

Thanks Gumboot.

[MaGZ]

The 9-11 Deniars also argue that Guiliani had foreknowledge of the collapse of the 1st tower, and he willingly failed to warn the firefighters to get out of the building.

Hence, Guiliani was part of the conspiracy, he is a murderer, and will be tried for mass murder...after the "revolution" comes.

I'm just glad that the 9-11 Deniars would never stoop to anything more then just harrasing Rudy. They have a deep respect for human rights and would never...ever...do something rash..right?

There was foreknowledge that the buildings would collapse. The police in the helicopters saw the buildings bowing near the fire level and knew the structure would likely fall. The problem was the police radios could not communicate with the firemen’s radios so the warning could not be passed along.

[60hzxtl]

A little insider info here - I've been recording some of the firefighters depositions, and while I'm unable to quote names, ranks, etc. the complaint about the radios is this - the FDNY was using a digital radio in early 2001. Those radios had a problem with close communication; a fireman in a building would issue a warning, and the guys on his truck - close to him, would not hear the call, but other companies, miles away would hear it. Those radios were recalled 6 weeks before 9/11, and the old analog radios reissued - those were the radios that were in use on 9/11, and didn't work floor to floor in the WTC. Because Rudy bought the new radios with a no-bid contract, he is seen a being liable by the firefighters for the radio failure that day. To a man, (and one woman) I've interviewed, NOT ONE, think it was an "inside job." The closest thing a CT'er could latch on to was the statement that 7 WTC was the first "skyscraper" to collapse from a fire, the full sentance included, ". . .you should have seen that fire!"

[gumboot]

A little insider info here - I've been recording some of the firefighters depositions, and while I'm unable to quote names, ranks, etc. the complaint about the radios is this - the FDNY was using a digital radio in early 2001. Those radios had a problem with close communication; a fireman in a building would issue a warning, and the guys on his truck - close to him, would not hear the call, but other companies, miles away would hear it. Those radios were recalled 6 weeks before 9/11, and the old analog radios reissued - those were the radios that were in use on 9/11, and didn't work floor to floor in the WTC. Because Rudy bought the new radios with a no-bid contract, he is seen a being liable by the firefighters for the radio failure that day. To a man, (and one woman) I've interviewed, NOT ONE, think it was an "inside job." The closest thing a CT'er could latch on to was the statement that 7 WTC was the first "skyscraper" to collapse from a fire, the full sentance included, ". . .you should have seen that fire!"



The thing is no hand-held radio will go through multiple floors of concrete and steel. They just can't do it. Hence the repeater. If they had used the repeater all would have been fine. When they tested it, they couldn't hear anything, but the repeater channel recording captured it perfectly.

-Gumboot

[60hzxtl]

Granted, I was just trying to explain how this is about to become a political issue in the presidential races, and how the ct'ers will try to latch on to this as some kind of consiratorial hook.

[Alt+F4]

To a man, (and one woman) I've interviewed, NOT ONE, think it was an "inside job."

That's right. According to my brother-in-law, a 20 year FDNY vet, he has never met an FDNY 9/11 troofer.

[firecoins]

There was foreknowledge that the buildings would collapse. The police in the helicopters saw the buildings bowing near the fire level and knew the structure would likely fall. The problem was the police radios could not communicate with the firemen’s radios so the warning could not be passed along.
NYPD radios are programs for VHF while FDNY is on UHF.

[njslim]

GumBoot:

The thing is no hand-held radio will go through multiple floors of concrete and steel. They just can't do it. Hence the repeater. If they had used the repeater all would have been fine. When they tested it, they couldn't hear anything, but the repeater channel recording captured it perfectly.

Have similar problem in our town - 9 story office building found our radios
(UHF) would not trip repeater. Have to go to direct channel to be heard
outside building by other units.

[gumboot]

There was foreknowledge that the buildings would collapse. The police in the helicopters saw the buildings bowing near the fire level and knew the structure would likely fall. The problem was the police radios could not communicate with the firemen’s radios so the warning could not be passed along.



Incidentally, the NYPD aviation unit did not report an imminent building collapse until after WTC2 had collapsed. By this time FDNY personnel were repeatedly issuing evacuation orders on numerous frequencies. Some heard it and ignored it. Some heard it but didn't appreciate the urgency. Some heard that WTC2 had collapsed. Some did not. It varied.

For example, every member of Battalion One (the first FDNY unit at the WTC), survived the attacks because they heard the evacuation order and obeyed it.

-Gumboot

[LashL]

Incidentally, the NYPD aviation unit did not report an imminent building collapse until after WTC2 had collapsed. By this time FDNY personnel were repeatedly issuing evacuation orders on numerous frequencies. Some heard it and ignored it. Some heard it but didn't appreciate the urgency. Some heard that WTC2 had collapsed. Some did not. It varied.

For example, every member of Battalion One (the first FDNY unit at the WTC), survived the attacks because they heard the evacuation order and obeyed it.

-Gumboot

True, the aviation unit did not warn of imminent collapse of the south tower as they had no knowledge of it prior to its collapse, and did not warn of imminent collapse of the north tower until after the south tower had collapsed.

An engineer from the Dept. of Buildings did report that the structural damage to the towers was immense and that the stability of both buildings was in question, just a few minutes prior to the collapse of the south tower.

Rich Zarillo was dispatched by John Perrugia to locate and tell FDNY Chief Peter Ganci in person that both towers were in danger of collapse (because Perrugia could not raise Chief Ganci on the radio), and Zarillo did deliver the warning of imminent collapse to Fire Marshal Steve Mosiello (Chief Ganci's aide) just prior to the collapse of the south tower.

The aviation unit warned of the imminent collapse of the north tower around 10:07, some seven minutes after the south tower collapsed, and some 20 minutes before the north tower collapsed. Those warnings did save lives, certainly, but not everyone heard the relayed warnings and not everyone who heard them left the building immediatey (and some were too high up in the building by that time to have got out even if they had heard and heeded the warning, frankly).

:(

[60hzxtl]

Incidentally, the NYPD aviation unit did not report an imminent building collapse until after WTC2 had collapsed.
-Gumboot

Not according to a deposition I just recorded - and that from FDNY.