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Tony
19th August 2003, 10:26 PM
[sorry no link]

Wind Power Stakes Claim in Texas Energy Market
Sun Aug 17, 2:58 PM ET

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By Matt Daily

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Texas, a state famous for its love affair with fossil fuels, has quietly begun a courtship with wind power that could push it to the nation's forefront in clean energy.

Prodded by state laws that require utilities to purchase green credits, tax breaks and easy access to vast open plains with steady, strong winds, Texas has become the second-largest wind producer in the country, after California.

More than 900 megawatts of wind power generation have been built in Texas in the past three years, bringing the total to 1,094 megawatts, or enough to power about 500,000 homes in the energy-thirsty Lone Star state.

"At this point, we think 10,000-plus megawatts in the next five to eight years is do-able," said Russel E. Smith, executive director of the trade group Texas Renewable Industries Association.

That would put the state well ahead of the 2,000 MW in new renewable energy capacity the legislature wants built before the end of the decade, but would remain only a small part of the state's total generating capacity of about 77,000 MW from oil, coal, natural gas and nuclear sources.

Federal tax incentives have been a key stimulus, offering wind generators 1.8 cents per kilowatt hour of power produced. That break, coupled with larger, more efficient wind turbines has brought the costs for wind-generated electricity down near the prices from power from fossil fuel plants.

OILY REPUTATION

Texas' reputation as a home to oil wildcatters and dusty plains populated by derricks has sometimes overshadowed the growth of its renewable energy industry,
not that it matters to Texans.

"We don't really care," Smith said. "It doesn't really matter what we do or say, a lot of the country just has its mind made up about Texas."

Others expressed surprise over the sector's rapid growth.

"Environmentally, we have not been traditionally a hotbed," said Roy McCoy, manager for the nation's first renewable energy credit system at ERCOT, the state power grid operator. "You wouldn't expect Texans to get on the bandwagon like they have."

Under a state law that set up the first green certificate trading program in the nation, Texas utilities are required to buy Renewable Energy Certificates on the open market to partially offset the amount of conventionally generated power they sell to homeowners and businesses.

Each certificate represents one megawatt hour of power produced from wind, solar, biomass, hydro or biothermal sources.

Several major companies have invested in wind farms in the state, including TXU Corp., FPL Energy and American Electric Power .

TXU and retailer Green Mountain Energy recently announced a partnership that will add another 160 MW of capacity by the end of the year. A DKR Development LLC project is also expected to complete the first 35 MW of a planned 400 MW capacity wind farm this year.

Green Mountain Energy, which was co-founded by Sam Wyly, the Texas oil and computer tycoon, said its Texas customer base has nearly tripled since it entered the state in 2001, though it declined to give an exact customer count.

DOWN TO THE WIRES

The rapid rise in wind power has raised some problems of its own, mostly linked to a lack of capacity on the wires needed to transport the electricity long distances from West Texas to high-demand urban areas.

McCamey, Texas' "Wind Energy Capital" is home to about 700 MW of wind power capacity, nearly twice the grid's 400 MW capacity after recent upgrades.

"There's certainly a lot of wind in the West, there are just not a lot of lines," said David Hurlbut, a senior economist with the Public Utilities Commission (news - web sites) of Texas.

Two new high voltage lines to McCamey are planned, at a cost of about $300 million, and will bring that transmission capacity to around 2,000 MW in the next few years.

This is good, now if they would stop wasting money on super freeways and invest it in a comprehensive mass transit system, we could make some real progress.

Tricky
20th August 2003, 05:20 AM
So, Tony, have you switched over to Green Mountain yet? I did so the same day utilities were deregulated in Texas, almost two years ago. They are actually more expensive than most other companies, though only by a couple of percent. I consider the extra cost worthwhile though.
Here is the link (http://www.greenmountain.com/index.jsp) for you Texans who want to sign up for cleaner energy.


Interestingly, my company, an oil company, is one of the major financial backers of Green Mountain. This really shouldn't be too surprising, considering that oil companies know better than anyone else how limited the supply of fossil fuels is.

Another reason that Texas is a prime choice for wind farms is that it has large areas of flat-topped hills (mesas) which are not part of any national park. Mesas are the best place for wind farms, being elevated to the areas where winds are higher, yet flat enough for easy construction. Unfortunately, many people consider them quite ugly. Texans, being used to pump-jacks everywhere, are not quite so aesthetically limited. Personally, I thought they were quite attractive during my drive through West Texas last year

Tmy
20th August 2003, 05:58 AM
We have this Wind Power contraversy up in Mass. They want to put a wind farm out off the Cape Cod coast. Whats the problem? Well the rich Nantucket islanders dont find the windmills pretty enough. Of cousre those millionaires dont mind paying some of the highest energy costs in the country.

Its kinda an environmental catch 22. On one hand, clean energy. On the other, dotting the beautiful sea shore wh windmills.

Mr Manifesto
20th August 2003, 06:15 AM
We had a similar controvesy in Australia in a place south of Woolloongong... The name of it escapes me, The Fool will kick me... In the Southern Tablelands... Well, anyway, they wanted to put a wind farm there, and the cow farmers didn't think they were pretty enough.

Hey- cow farmers! Yes you! YOU'RE A PRIMARY INDUSTRY, NOT A F***ING HOLIDAY HOME! GET WIT DA PROGRAM!

Mr Manifesto
20th August 2003, 06:17 AM
Kiama. That's it.

Tricky
20th August 2003, 06:23 AM
Some extremist environmentalists claim that windmills affect wind patterns. This may be so, though I know of no studies to indicate this, however I seriously doubt this would have a greater impact on the climate than other energy sources.

But there is one other feature about them that some nature-lovers don't care for. They tend to kill a lot of birds.

arcticpenguin
20th August 2003, 06:37 AM
Here's a source for wind energy news. It's an advocay group, so may be biased:
http://www.awea.org/news/

I have heard that the new turbines, which spin at lower speeds, do not kill as many birds but I don't know if I will be able to find a link.

arcticpenguin
20th August 2003, 06:40 AM
Here's that article on Texas wind power, in Wired:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60070,00.html

Crossbow
20th August 2003, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Tony
[sorry no link]

...

This is good, now if they would stop wasting money on super freeways and invest it in a comprehensive mass transit system, we could make some real progress.

Gee whiz Tony, that sounds almost like a Communist idea; replacing private property with a government run transportation system.

DanishDynamite
20th August 2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Crossbow


Gee whiz Tony, that sounds almost like a Communist idea; replacing private property with a government run transportation system. Darn, Crossbow! :mad: I was going to call Tony a commie, and you stole my thunder! :mad: :D

So, what's up Tony? How could you possibly favor a commie, leftist, socialist, pinko concept such as mass-transit against an individualistic, freedom-loving, founding-father concept of cars?

Tony
20th August 2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Darn, Crossbow! :mad: I was going to call Tony a commie, and you stole my thunder! :mad: :D

So, what's up Tony? How could you possibly favor a commie, leftist, socialist, pinko concept such as mass-transit against an individualistic, freedom-loving, founding-father concept of cars?


Perhaps because mass transit isnt a commie, leftist, socialist pinko concept.

When did I ever say anything about it being government funded? Mass transit can be privitized. Duh.

And FYI, I dont favor mass transit against cars, I favor mass transit in ADDITION to cars. I want to give people as many choices as possible.

You people mistake me for being as idealistic and irrational as you. If mass transit can relieve traffic, reduce pollution, make it easier for visitors to get around the city and make the city an overall better place to live, isnt it just logical to favor mass transit?

DanishDynamite
20th August 2003, 12:17 PM
Tony:Perhaps because mass transit isnt a commie, leftist, socialist pinko concept.Glad to hear you say this. A little surprised, considering rightist Americans' love affair with the automobile, but glad.
When did I ever say anything about it being government funded? Mass transit can be privitized. Duh.When did I ever say I was refering to government funding?
And FYI, I dont favor mass transit against cars, I favor mass transit in ADDITION to cars. I want to give people as many choices as possible.

You people mistake me for being as idealistic and irrational as you. If mass transit can relieve traffic, reduce pollution, make it easier for visitors to get around the city and make the city an overall better place to live, isnt it just logical to favor mass transit?Indeed it is.

On the other hand, are you aware that of the 1094 MW of wind power in Texas, some 355 MW (http://www.awea.org/projects/texas.html) have been delivered by that socialist haven Denmark?

(Edited to change MWs from 280 to 355 as more than one Danish company has been involved.)

Tony
20th August 2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Tony:Glad to hear you say this. A little surprised, considering rightist Americans' love affair with the automobile, but glad.


You have a distorted view of "rightists" americans.

When did I ever say I was refering to government funding?

Dont play dumb, you said mass transit was a "commie concept". Communism entails mass government funding of social programs.

On the other hand, are you aware that of the 1094 MW of wind power in Texas, some 280 MW (http://www.awea.org/projects/texas.html) have been delivered by that socialist haven Denmark?

So what?

c0rbin
20th August 2003, 12:32 PM
I wonder if Green Mountain thought of putting mini-windmills in front of Republican State Senators' mouths every time the Democratic State Sen. take off for Oklahoma or New Mexico.

:p

DanishDynamite
20th August 2003, 12:35 PM
Tony:You have a distorted view of "rightists" americans.Perhaps. It seems to me though, that environmentalists are often referred to as socialists.
Dont play dumb, you said mass transit was a "commie concept". Communism entails mass government funding of social programs. No. Mass-transit entails thinking of the masses, the people, the society. Not the individual.
So what?Just found it interesting that companies from a so-called socialiest society were dominant in Texas.

Tony
20th August 2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Tony:Perhaps. It seems to me though, that environmentalists are often referred to as socialists.


You can still care about the enviroment and stuff without being an enviromentalist.

No. Mass-transit entails thinking of the masses, the people, the society. Not the individual.

If you want to look at it like that, but I look at it as giving the individual more transportation choices and lessening the time the individual has to sit in traffic.

Just found it interesting that companies from a so-called socialiest society were dominant in Texas.

Again, so what? That company realizes there is alot of money to be made here.

DanishDynamite
20th August 2003, 12:58 PM
Tony:You can still care about the enviroment and stuff without being an enviromentalist. This is almost sig-material. No True Scotsman, eh? :)
If you want to look at it like that, but I look at it as giving the individual more transportation choices and lessening the time the individual has to sit in traffic.So do I, and presumably most unbiased people.
Again, so what? That company realizes there is alot of money to be made here. Indeed. Next time you stereotype a "socialist" society, remember that.

Mike B.
20th August 2003, 06:02 PM
As a side not,

Howard Dean, one of the leading Democratic candidates for President, recently praised Denmark for its use of wind energy and said it should be a model for what the US should do...

WildCat
20th August 2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Tony

This is good, now if they would stop wasting money on super freeways and invest it in a comprehensive mass transit system, we could make some real progress.
I really don't think mass transit would work anywhere in Texas. It's just too spread out. Even Houston and Dallas are layed out like a giant suburb. Works well in New York, Chicago, and most of Europe though, places w/ high population densities. Even in the suburbs of Chicago the RTA can't get by w/o massive federal subsidies, something like 40% of the budget I think.

Tony
20th August 2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by WildCat

I really don't think mass transit would work anywhere in Texas. It's just too spread out.

Dallas has had success with their system, as far as Houston is concerned, time will tell.

BobK
20th August 2003, 10:17 PM
The article sounded pretty rosey until I realized they were only talking about capacity and not production. Capacity is not equivalent to production.

Why no mention of actual MW hours generated?

One guy said his customers tripled, but wouldn't say how many he had. How come?

As to why petroleum companies own parts of this wind power, it's likely to have something to do with the gauranteed 1.8 cents of subsidy (per KwHr) paid by the government.

Also something to do with the green credit system the legislature enacted. It would be nice to know how it works. Advantages versus penalties from the business point of view. Sounds like their value floats in the market.

I tend to think they might be exaggerating the potential.

Crossbow
21st August 2003, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by Tony

Perhaps because mass transit isnt a commie, leftist, socialist pinko concept.

When did I ever say anything about it being government funded? Mass transit can be privitized. Duh.

And FYI, I dont favor mass transit against cars, I favor mass transit in ADDITION to cars. I want to give people as many choices as possible.

You people mistake me for being as idealistic and irrational as you. If mass transit can relieve traffic, reduce pollution, make it easier for visitors to get around the city and make the city an overall better place to live, isnt it just logical to favor mass transit?

Well, duh Tony, but mass transit is a socialist concept.

In the USA, every city that has mass transportation (buses, subways, trolley cars, etc.) they are run by the government. The last privately run city bus company went out of business over thirty years because there is no money it.

While like you, I do favor mass transit, but the problem is that cars are just too successful for there own good. They are affordable, reliable, convenient, and available in a wide variety of colors and styles. And unless gasoline starts costing at least five dollars per gallon, one will likely see car ownership to increase.