Bad Astronomy? Or Just Plain Old Stupidity?

[Brown]

From Yahoo and SPACE.com: (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=96&ncid=753&e=10&u=/space/20030818/sc_space/marswillnotkillyou) The headline is "Mars Will Not Kill You."On Aug. 27, Mars will be closer to Earth than in nearly 60,000 years. This "close approach," as it's being billed, has some folks worried about potential dangers here on our planet.

One SPACE.com reader asks: "Will it be dangerous when Mars gets that close to Earth? It has me a little worried." Others have e-mailed to say they heard there would be earthquakes or other disasters. One of the many rumors going around says the two planets will collide.On the one hand, it's easy to conclude that these people must be very stupid to ask such questions. On the other hand, perhaps they are to be commended for asking such questions, as they may have been getting some bad "information" from various sources, and they wanted to see if these sources are reliable.Planetary doom prognostications pop up again and again because a handful of astrologers and self-anointed visionaries persist in disseminating garbage about how the positions of the planets can affect Earth by generating earthquakes, storms or other catastrophes. The Internet has made publishing of these false claims easy and more frequent.

"Only those who are foolish enough to think the motions of the planets have a bearing on their lives believe in this pseudo-science," says Joe Rao, SPACE.com's Night Sky columnist. He has been getting e-mail about this, too.No doubt, so has our buddy and frequent forum contributor, Phil Plait, aka The Bad Astronomer. (http://www.badastronomy.com)

[c0rbin]

Is this a dumb question: Will the proximity of Mars affect the moon's orbit around earth?

[Dancing David]

Uh, the biggest problem is that UFO sightings will go up as people mistake Mars for a UFO.

[Crossbow]

I must say that I am unsurprised that some people will think that the proximty of Mars will somehow influence the Earth.

Does anyone remember the Chick Tract from the late 70's that all but said the world would end in 1983 when all of the planets in the solar system lined up? Well, all the planets did line up, and the high tides were a bit higher, and the low tides were a bit lower, but that was about it.

Go figure!

[Duncan]

Does anyone remember the Chick Tract from the late 70's that all but said the world would end in 1983 when all of the planets in the solar system lined up? Well, all the planets did line up, and the high tides were a bit higher, and the low tides were a bit lower, but that was about it

Amazing. In 1983, Culture Club rose in poularity with their hit single "Do you really want to hurt me?"

I believe there is a direct correlation between this strange phenomena and the planets aligning. There has to be.

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

From here (http://www.madison.com/toolbox/index.php?action=printme&ref=captimes&storyURL=/captimes/news/stories/54841.php):

And despite age-old tall tales of little green men from Mars, there is nothing to worry about, says Linda Sparke, who chairs the University of Wisconsin-Madison astronomy department.
"It's not going to attack us," she explained in her down-to-Earth way. "It's quite safe."

However, she said, "if they did, this would be the right time to send the spacecraft." I mean, did they really need to call up the University for that one?

But at least they offer good advice:
Unlike viewing the sun, watching Mars with the naked eye is fine, says James Lattis, director of the UW Space Place, but the best way to experience the opposition of Mars is to get to a telescope........{snip}........."This is the kind of event where a telescope is an appropriate tool," Lattis said.

[Michael Redman]

To be fair, if Mars got close enough to Earth, there certainly would be disasterous results. They say in these news bits that it's going to be closer than it has been in tens of thousands of years, but don't really go into just how close. The fact that the media, normally happy to ignore science, see this as important enough to report, lends reasonableness to questioning what impact it might have, at least from someone with very little education regarding astonomy.

A little ignorant, probably, but not necessarily stupid.

[diddidit]

Originally posted by Michael Redman
A little ignorant, probably, but not necessarily stupid.

Insufficient education...the cause of a great many ills in da woild today.

did

[CapelDodger]

I have a book on the idiocy shelf called "The Jupiter Effect" by John Gribbin and Stephen Plagemann, published 1974, predicting dire results of the planetary alignment. That John Gribbin? Apparently so.

[c0rbin]

So I am really bad at math, will the Mars proximity affect the moon's orbit?

[The Bad Astronomer]

People tend to not understand the size of the solar system, and when they hear newspeople saying Mars will get close, they are not sure what will happen.

I would chalk it up to ignorance first, then stupidity if, after a careful and simple explanation, they still choose to think Mars will cause problems. Willful ignorance is my biggest enemy.

Mars will not affect the Moon's orbit. Mars is very small, and very far away. Try here (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/news/marsattacks.html).

[CFLarsen]

BadAss, ;)

I once did the old experiment with a nephew of mine. He had expressed interest in astronomical matters (he was 10 at the time) and had expressed bewilderment at the distances of the universe.

So, I took him through some simple calculations of the distances of the planets, and then went outside. Put a tennis ball on the street.

Then, I started walking down the street, marking where the planets would be, and what size they would be.

I still remember the size of his eyes when he realized that there is NOTHING out there. Well, almost!

On a quiet summer evening, something clicked. Amazing what a simple, down2earth(!) experiment can do.

Yeah, Mars is getting "close". But, f*ck, it's nowhere even near Earth.... :)

[Bluegill]

I posted this a while back on another thread. It's a really nifty little calculator for creating scale models of the solar system. You type in the size of the sun in either inches or centimeters, and it instantly gives you the relative size and orbital distance of the planets.

So if you have, for instance, a nephew who wants to know how big and how distant Earth and Mars would be if the sun were the size of a basketball--boing! You can show him without any trouble at all!

Scale model calculator (http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/solar_system/)

[c0rbin]

Thanks for the info!

:D

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Bluegill
Scale model calculator (http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/solar_system/)

NOW YOU TELL ME??

Do you have any idea how much time and effort I spent on this??

Sheesh...just tell me the next time, OK? :)

[UnrepentantSinner]

That calculator is too cool. Thanks for sharing it.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Brown
On the one hand, it's easy to conclude that these people must be very stupid to ask such questions. On the other hand, perhaps they are to be commended for asking such questions, as they may have been getting some bad "information" from various sources, and they wanted to see if these sources are reliable.

I vote stupid.

Think about it - if the planets really were going to collide, or there would be floods and earthquakes, don't these idiots stop to think that perhaps, just perhaps, CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC/Fox/PBS might have mentioned it to their viewers?

[shecky]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


Think about it - if the planets really were going to collide, or there would be floods and earthquakes, don't these idiots stop to think that perhaps, just perhaps, CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC/Fox/PBS might have mentioned it to their viewers?

Of course not. If they let this truth be known, there would be mass panic, governments would be overthrown, society would fall apart! People would question the very existence of God. That's why they keep it under wraps.

[DrMatt]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


I vote stupid.


Paging Central Scrutinizer to the Auctions Forum!
Please pick up the white courtesy link....

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by shecky


Of course not. If they let this truth be known, there would be mass panic, governments would be overthrown, society would fall apart! People would question the very existence of God. That's why they keep it under wraps.

no no no, it's the gov't conspiracy thingy to keep the public from learning about facts that have to do with space and stuff like martians and saucers flying

x files x files x files....mars will steal the moon from earth!

:wink8:

[Sundog]

Originally posted by The Bad Astronomer
People tend to not understand the size of the solar system, and when they hear newspeople saying Mars will get close, they are not sure what will happen.

I would chalk it up to ignorance first, then stupidity if, after a careful and simple explanation, they still choose to think Mars will cause problems. Willful ignorance is my biggest enemy.



There's another thing going on, I think. People are shell-shocked. The news has been so bizarre for the last few years that it's easy to believe that some new calamity lurks just over the horizon.

[Eos of the Eons]

What bizarre news? Memory search ineffective

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
What bizarre news? Memory search ineffective

:eek:

9/11... anthrax... smallpox scares.... meteors aimed at Earth in a few hundred years... several wars... terrorism on our doorstep... plastic and duct tape... multiple plagues... huge blackouts... are you serious?

[Eos of the Eons]

Pfft, nothing I haven't heard before in my thirty years. Terrorism-people getting killed at the olympic games...

Wars-Ayatollah

This war, which officially began on September 22, 1980, lasted more than eight years and cost hundreds of thousand of lives and untold property damage, including a number of foreign oil tankers and related vessel in the Persian Gulf.

http://aps.naples.net/community/NFNWebpages/storyboard.cfm?StoryBoardNum=142&PageNum=100

Plagues of grasshoppers/mice/etc.

Diseases -AIDS was big news in the eighties.

El Nino

Mud slides

There's always bizarre news. It doesn't excuse stupidity like plastic and duct tape (hello...air...need it...to survive).

I was also in school when the planets 'lined up' and I remember thinking it was dumb to think that would adversely affect us. I figured it must have happened a few times in earth's hitory. Not only that, but they didn't line up...they were all in the same vicinity, on the same side of the planet. Not exactly lined up.

Blackouts used to be common in any thunderstorms. Not a big deal.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Pfft, nothing I haven't heard before in my thirty years.

Yeah, thirty years ago is about right. Things have been insane at least that long.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe it's just me who's shellshocked. ;) But I don't think so. I think if you ask the average person if they think times are more stressful than a few years ago you'll get an overwhelming YES.

[Eos of the Eons]

Not to mention the sixties, remember...vietnam war...ban the bra, etc.
That cold war furor...
And the forties with WW2, and hey, the discovery of microbes even further back.

People rioted way back when the small pox vaccines first came on the scene.

At one time people thought 20 mph was an 'unnatural' speed for humans, and one should stick to horses. And carbon monoxide will kill on the first whiff you know...

There's always something. The older you get, the less shell shock you go through...you know that thing called desensitization.


I remeber being scared WW3 was going to happen with the Ayatollah thing. I thought we'd all be nuked.

Now I just pay attention and try to separate the hysterics from the news.

[TillEulenspiegel]

The universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate and will eventually decay into total, cold, darkness. Should we worry? no.

That Mars' will have an effect on the earth at it's perigee is a given, ask Kepler and Newton. Will it matter, will it have a noticeable or mesureable effect? No.

Why do people insist on building imaginary monsters , when we have so many real ones?

[Eos of the Eons]

Imaginary monsters are easier to fight

[jj]

Originally posted by Duncan


Amazing. In 1983, Culture Club rose in poularity with their hit single "Do you really want to hurt me?"

I believe there is a direct correlation between this strange phenomena and the planets aligning. There has to be.

I can't possibly imagine a connection between anything that's IN alignment and Boy George. Nothing at all, except maybe the voice. :p

Oh, well, it comes and goes.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Imaginary monsters are easier to fight.I imagine them not there, usually. Except on dark nights alone in my bed, in which case I check under the bed AND in the closet for monsters then pull the sheets right up over my head. :D

[UserGoogol]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Is this a dumb question: Will the proximity of Mars affect the moon's orbit around earth?

Long answer yes, short answer no.

Mars being as close as it is will have no noticable effects on the moon's orbit, although I'm sure it'll probably affect things by a micrometer or something. Of course, so does everything else in the observable universe.

[Wudang]

Patrick Moore (UK TV and radio astronomer) writes in his book "Do you speak Venusian" of how, after his tongue-in-cheek warning on his astronomy radio show about the alignment of all the planets and that they might feel a little lighter, had a number of letters from people who spoke of "floating around their kitchen" and so on. Amusing book about Flat Earthers and other "original thinkers".

[Brown]

Here is an actual headline from CNN.com: "Mars looms large as brush with Earth nears."

Gee, what's wrong with this headline??

(Chances are the headline will be changed shortly.)

Another headline, same web site: "Earth gears up for brush with Mars."

Is it any wonder that some folks out there think the two planets are going to collide?

[Eos of the Eons]

I'm really starting to hate the media. The whole lot of them need to take a course on ethics and learn to be more accurate. The stuff will still sell, use your brain and find some way to make a headline accurate and eyecatching.

I had enough eye rolling when that sperm whale carcass washed up and the headlines were saying "scientists baffled". Not! The one took one look at it and saw the gonads and knew what it was. There was no freakin bafflement on any scientist's part.

[TillEulenspiegel]

Eos, If you are just starting to hate the media , you are not just tardy but have not spread the blame properly.

The media is savvy, they do thier job as well if not better then any other field, after all does math have a flavor of the past hour? Does cosmology ( in a state of Major flux as we speak) reach accommodation quickly and evenly ala nielson ratings?

No these people seize on the fact that roman emperors realized eons ago.

Bread and circuses, dats whats they want.

So if you feel uneasy about the fact that temptation survival millionaire show represents what you think is disproportional share of the glutinious audience.... look ye unto the eaters of crap,,,, the public.

[Eos of the Eons]

Yeah, tardy, I am disillusioned, I once admired journalists. I thought they were better examples than movie stars. Now I can see they are in the same 'entertainment' business.

Hey, public ignorance is no excuse, the media is supposed to be made up of professionals right? I don't mean the crap in tabloids.

Yes yes, buyer beware. Thing is that people do trust journalists on the news and in the city papers to a degree. Now I have a town of people freaking about irridiation. I'm the stupid one for not eating up the hogwash.

Ugh. I wish I could start my own paper with real reliable and factual news. I wouldn't let the idiots writing about homosexuals being evil have any space on the letters to the editor page either. There is a line between freedom of speech and harrasing a population. That goes for people saying blacks are evil, or Indians are evil, or atheists should be burned. None of it. They can publish their own hate mail on their own dime.

[TillEulenspiegel]

I agree with Your frustration, but ask yourself, if the paper is based in Wehatequeersville La or Intolerence. Mo. how is the paper/radio ststion/TV ststion going to make money if it's edititorial stance is diametrectically opposed to the " community outlook " and because the large media outlets are going to generate revinue regardless of "trvth" what quantity in they're expidentcy to gain market share do you think will fall by the wayside? What strata of society do you think they will ultimatly represent? The disenfranchised or the truthsayers? or the Idiots that represent mainstream culture and have an understanding of Hawking to be some kind of sport that involves birds?

/ soapbox off: red hot scotch induced anger /off.

[Eos of the Eons]

Why would not having the content mean 'opposed'? Wouldn't it be just neutral? I don't see evolution in there every week, but I don't assume the paper is opposed to it. Reporting on issues and writing hate mail is quite different. Reporting that Alberta opposes gay marriage is different from saying gay marriage is evil and going to destroy life as we know it.

[Mercutio]

Our local sunday paper ran three articles on the Mars business. A large one featuring astronomers, with wonderfully accessible facts about the planets, the solar system, they history of astronomy, etc. A small one about unmanned exploration of Mars.

And a medium one (full page width, 3-4 inches) with predictions by a local astrologer. No disclaimer, perfectly serious. We should watch out for our personal relationships with people. Of course, since Mars and Mercury are in opposition, and we have never experienced that before in the history of the science of astrology, all bets are off as to whether we can accurately use Mars as a predictor of our behavior.

:hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit:

[TillEulenspiegel]

I remember when I had a vestage of that kind of idealisem, when the cops rousted me and let me go. Happened when I was a kid the reasons don't mater. I went home and argued with my older brother that " the cops can't do that , It's against the law!!" His summerizing point was a shake of his head and a declairation that " It dosn't mater man they can do what they want.

The powers that be ( not some shadowy , malignent entity in black helecopters, but Disney, Scripps-Howard, Ruuuupert Murdoc)will not ever let an inconvience like Fair and Balanced ( HAHAHAHAHA) reporting or accuracy stand in the way of profit. Hey local ABC guy how's that new Disney movie? " Just great! Talking head!" oooo look a half hour special on Fox about ... Uh , .. Fox. Man these guys make Hurst look like a 14yr old.

This outta bring down a ton o' bricks on my head , but just for craps n grins, do a study of media minipulation ( and public too) of what has transpired in the mid-east these past 11 months. Now tell me how dissillusioned you are.

PS Mercutio,

You don't have enough bonking idiots in your post and if ya wanna wrestle about it , I'll be outside under Mars' influence!

[Luke T.]

Someone told my wife that Mars would look as big as the moon when it got closer. Makes me wonder how many people are going to mistake the moon for Mars.....

Laugh. But I bet it happens. Especially if the moon is a little orangey one night.

[CurtC]

A couple of weeks ago, my 74 year old mom called me. The conversation went like this:

Mom: I heard on the radio that on [speaking slowly, with emphasis] August 28, at 3:18 am, that Mars will be closer to the Earth than it has been in 60000 years.
Me: Yeah, that's right.
Mom: I'm going to get up and see that!
Me: Well, you might as well go outside now and look at it, because it looks basically the same.
Mom: Huh? But it's not as close as it will be then.
Me: It's almost as close. It gets pretty close every 15 years or so. I saw it in 1988.
Mom: But the guys on the radio said that it will be as big as the Moon!
Me: Then they're smokin' that wacky tobbacky. I mean, it will probably be like 10% larger than it is now. So go look - it's really bright. But you won't be able to see any width to it with the naked eye - it'll just look like a bright, orangish star.

Anyway, my mom was pretty disappointed in this conversation. And at 25 arc seconds across, I was hoping to be able to see some width to the dot with my 10x binoculars, since it's 1/60 the size of the full Moon, but alas, it still just looks like a dot. With my small telescope, it looks like a pale orange BB.

[jim_scotti]

Originally posted by CurtC

Anyway, my mom was pretty disappointed in this conversation. And at 25 arc seconds across, I was hoping to be able to see some width to the dot with my 10x binoculars, since it's 1/60 the size of the full Moon, but alas, it still just looks like a dot. With my small telescope, it looks like a pale orange BB.

You need to tell your mom as well as any other relatives and friends who ask to seek out their local planetarium or observatory or to look for the local astronomy clubs who will undoubtedly have star parties set up to view Mars. Make sure you see the planet through a decent telescope to see it in all its glory with your own eyes. This week is the time and now is when you are likely to find these resources available to you. Here in Tucson, the Flandrau Science Center is hosting a lecture by David Levy tonight (August 27) and along with the local Tucson Amateur Astronomy Association (TAAA), will have telescopes set up to look at Mars for the next few nights. I'm certain that most areas will have similar events for the public to view Mars at it's best, so I hope you get a chance to take advantage of it.

Jim.

[fishbait]

Viewing Mars these past nights certainly has been interesting and everyone with access to a telescope should give a peek. However, the media has been saturated with so much hype that people are understandable confused and have a wide range of expectations.

The proximity of Mars to Earth at this time is not a unique scientific or astronomical event. Sure, it's the closest it's been in 60k years and is very bright. But, the fact is that Mars comes almost as close as it is now every 16 months in our respective orbits. The only unique thing is that it hasn't been this close in 60k years.

Saying that Mars is significantly closer to the earth than it has been in 60, 000 years is like standing in New York, taking two steps into New Jersey, and saying that I am significantly closer to Japan than I have ever been.

Check out the orbit periods of Mars/Earth and see that it is mostly media hype--nothing spectacular or unusual in terms of distance.

But, still, a great show in the Southern sky that shouldn't be missed.

[Brown]

As I have said before, reporting about astronomy in many of the news media is pretty poor. A few years ago, I was astonished at what the newspaper and television media reported about an annular eclipse visible over the midwest. Many of the reporters did not know the difference between a total solar eclipse, an annular solar eclipse and a partial solar eclipse. At least one "news" outlet reported that there was no way to really know for sure when the eclipse would occur until after it had actually occurred. (Eclipses can be predicted with high accuracy many years in advance.) Some of the information provided was technically correct, but misleading to a lot of people (e.g., whether you could actually see the moon as it passed in front of the sun).

It is not surprising that people get incorrect impressions about the proximity of Mars.

[CurtC]

fishbait wrote:
Saying that Mars is significantly closer to the earth than it has been in 60, 000 years is like standing in New York, taking two steps into New Jersey, and saying that I am significantly closer to Japan than I have ever been.The Earth laps Mars in orbiting the sun every year and a half. But because both orbits are elliptical, and Mars's is off by a whole 9%, sometimes the pass will happen when the planets are relatively close, and sometimes relatively far. Every 15 years, a fairly close one happens. As I said, I saw it in 1988. But the elliptical shape of the orbits is precessing, and the outermost part of Earth's is getting closer to the innermost part of Mars's.

It's a lot more of a difference than taking two steps toward Japan. The distance at some passes is quite a bit farther away - it would be more like driving to San Fancisco and saying you're closer to Japan. But still, the difference between this one and the "close" ones that happen every 15 years or so is only a couple of percent.

[bPer]

Originally posted by fishbait
But, the fact is that Mars comes almost as close as it is now every 16 months in our respective orbits.
A tiny technical quibble here, and I'm sure it's a typo, but Mars makes a close approach every 26 months.

I went out last night to look at Mars with my two scopes. It wasn't very impressive in my short-tube 80, but in my 200mm SCT, wow! I (and everyone else) was really frustrated in 2001 when global storms obscured much of the surface for most of the event, but this time I could make out some gross detail. What a treat! The south polar cap stood out bright white, almost like a star in comparison with the duller equatorial region.

Interestingly, when I tried the various filters that I bought in 2001 to view Mars, my wife and I both agreed that the best one was a mistake - a 13% ND filter which I use for lunar observing. It cut the brightness down and seemed to bring out the details.

bPer

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Mercutio

And a medium one (full page width, 3-4 inches) with predictions by a local astrologer. No disclaimer, perfectly serious. We should watch out for our personal relationships with people. Of course, since Mars and Mercury are in opposition, and we have never experienced that before in the history of the science of astrology, all bets are off as to whether we can accurately use Mars as a predictor of our behavior.

:hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit: :hit:

In this same vein, I posted this over in " General Skepticism and The Paranormal "..

Given the following ;

Problem 1:
Mass of earth = 6 x 10²⁴ kg

Mass of mars = 6.43 x 10²³ kg

Distance from earth = 54 x 10⁶ km ( approximate, as of 00:00 GMT this morning )

Problem 2:
Mass of you = ( you will have to provide this )

Mass of bowling ball = 7 kg

Assume the bowling ball is in the room with you, about 3 metres away.

And using the formula;

F₂gravity = Gm₁m₂ / r²

Where;
F= Force in Newtons (N)
G= Gravitational constant = 6.67 x 10^-11 Nm² / kg²
m₁,m₂ = mass of each body in killograms (kg)
r = distance between the two bodies in metres (m)

Compare the attraction between you and the bowling ball and the attraction between Earth and Mars today.. Even more interesting would be the effect of the gravitational attraction between Mars and you ( plug 68 kg ( ~150 lbs ) and 6.43 x 10²³ kg ) into the formula above ).

Ask yourself: Why Astrologers don't seem to bother asking if there were any bowling balls in the area when you were born, and why they concern themselves with the position of the planets?


I'm a Capricorn, with a Brunswick^TM 18 pounder, ascending..:D

[Brown]

A few hours ago, I was as close to the planet Mars as I have ever been and ever will be.

I noticed no effects that I could attribute to the "close encounter."

[TillEulenspiegel]

It turned me into a Newt!!!





umm I got better tho...

Holy Grail , I love the "witch" test =)

[BillyJoe]

The newt knew too much........

[Cinorjer]

The basic astronomy taught in school would have been sufficient to teach people just how vast the distance is between planets, even when they're (relatively) close. Unfortunately, most kids had about as much interest in other planets as they did in the history of maize. So they didn't really learn anything.

I have come to realize over the years that most people lack the desire to learn anything just for the sake of learning. Their questions and curiosity about our world boil down to:

Is it dangerous?
Is it fun to do?
What does everyone else think about it?
How is this going to affect my life?

When you look at it, this is basic, almost instinctive behavior and designed to let someone survive in a pack or tribe. Salespeople and those who design campains for or against an issue know these are the only important questions, and design their pitch to give authoritative yes-or-no answers. You're wasting your time trying to explain how the answer is arrived at.

So you can explain to people about gravity and celestial bodies and how Mars is not really all that close to Earth, even this month. It will go in one ear and out the other. Just tell them, no it's not dangerous, yes, it is fun to watch, a few people think it's neat, and it's not going to affect your life unless you mistake Mars for a UFO and start a panic.

[jim_scotti]

Originally posted by fishbait

The proximity of Mars to Earth at this time is not a unique scientific or astronomical event. Sure, it's the closest it's been in 60k years and is very bright. But, the fact is that Mars comes almost as close as it is now every 16 months in our respective orbits. The only unique thing is that it hasn't been this close in 60k years.

Saying that Mars is significantly closer to the earth than it has been in 60, 000 years is like standing in New York, taking two steps into New Jersey, and saying that I am significantly closer to Japan than I have ever been.


Actually, Mars and Earth line up at their closest each orbit every 780 days approximately (every 26 months). However, the distance between Mars and Earth at that time varies considerably due to the eccentricity (non-circularness) of the Martian orbit. It also so happens that Earth's aphelion is close to the direction of Mars' perihelion. While the Earths orbit is more circular, it varies between 147.5 and 152.5 million kilometers from the sun while Mars varies from 207 to 250 million kilometers from the sun. So when Earth and Mars line up they can be anywhere from about 102 million kilometers apart at worst to about 55 million kilometers at best. That's almost a factor of two in distance! The current distance is closer to the absolute minimum which is why it is so special.

Your analogy of taking two steps into New Jersey would only be valid if Japan where in eastern Pennsylvania or even western New Jersey...

Jim.

[Rayn]

Well, my testicles quivered a bit when Mars passed, but that could have been this new jock strap I'm testing.

And as for the uselessness of tabloids: everyone knew about Mars coming close, but it was only because I read the Weekly World News that I found out about Bat-Boy's marraige to Merman in an inter-monster, homosexual wedding in Vermont last week.

[Charlie in Dayton]

I've seen this "Mars will be as big as the Moon" stuff more often recently...it's sort of correct...

The math works out such that the image of Mars at 75x magnification will be the size of the full Moon to the naked eye.

Howsomever, don't expect to see the same level of detail. You'll be doing good to see some variations in shading and the south polar cap. That will still be an interesting sight, though.

This will be valid to the end of September. I heard the other night (and some basic math seemed to validate it) that the differences in orbits meant that Mars and Earth were separating at a rate of only 60 mph...h*ll my old junker Plymouth could go faster than that on a good day!:D

[BillyJoe]

Howsomever?

[Jethro]

Originally posted by jim_scotti
Your analogy of taking two steps into New Jersey would only be valid if Japan where in eastern Pennsylvania or even western New Jersey...

Jim. The point he's making though, is that the new "closest ever" is not a whole lot closer than the previous "closest ever." So while he's been to London, making Jersey a lot closer than the farthest he's ever been, he's also had a few trips half-way through the Lincoln tunnel.

[fishbait]

Originally posted by Jethro
The point he's making though, is that the new "closest ever" is not a whole lot closer than the previous "closest ever." So while he's been to London, making Jersey a lot closer than the farthest he's ever been, he's also had a few trips half-way through the Lincoln tunnel.

Yes. Thanks for the clarification. By the way, that anology isn't mine. I heard it from the head guy at the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

Speaking of "Bad Astronomy or Just Plain Stupid", I set up my 10" SCT scope last Thursday at a small gathering to give the folks a look at Mars. This instument is impressively large with the dew shield installed and all the computer lights glowing. Some of the questions from these adults boggled my mind:

"Can you see the moon with that?"

"Can I see the canals on Mars?"

"Will you show me the black hole where we sent the space
guys?"

"How far out does that telescope shine?"

"When I see the full moon, do people on the other side of
the world see the other side of the moon?" (Huh?)

"I've seen pictures of Mars and that ain't it".

"Can we see the rings around Venus?"

"Can you see birds with that thing?"

"If Mars is so close, how come it looks so dam far away?"

"How long have you been doing astrology?"

"Hey! Mars is moving! Why is that?"

"Have you been to Area 54?"

"Do you ever use that to fry ants in the daytime?"

[BillyJoe]

I dunno, I think this one is pretty good......

Originally posted by fishbait
"Do you ever use that to fry ants in the daytime?" Maybe he was testing your lateral thinking.....or your sense of humour. :cool:

BillyJoe

[Charlie in Dayton]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Howsomever?

I'll be ding-dong diddley-damned...I just invented a new word!!! Quick...where do I file the copyright and patent, and how much should I ask for royalties? :eek: