reparations that make sense

[Nie Trink Wasser]

once again, Jim scores the vital points.




http://www.jimgoad.com/

http://www.jimgoad.com/cgi-bin/reparations.gif

A flyer is circulating through Portland that depicts LeVar Burton as slave-boy Kunta Kinte from ROOTS with a chain around his neck and the word REPARATIONS at the bottom.

First off: You won't get a nickel from me.

But since it can be proven that most white Americans are descended from slaves rather than slaveowners, can we, too, get on the gravy train?

Someone once described the idea of modern-day reparations for slavery as (I'm paraphrasing) "forcing people who AREN'T guilty of something to pay other people who DIDN'T have the crime happen to them."

The sticky wicket which bludgeons the whole "boo-hoo, gimme money" mantra is the fact that black Americans enjoy the HIGHEST standard of living of any black population on EARTH. So if you want things "repaired" back to how they were before you were enslaved, a one-way ticket to Africa would do the trick.

Oh, no, no, no, no—they'd instinctually resist THAT plan. Ninety-nine out of a hundred would rather be "kept down" here than frolic amid the splendor of Mother Africa.

So shut up, already. There's a limit to white guilt, and you're REALLY pushing it.





edited by hal, see post

[Tmy]

You know who makes the biggest stink about reparations? Whaite america!! They cant stop talking about it. Heres a clue, most all black americans really dont give a shiznit about reparations cuase they know it will never happen.

That being said I am always annoyed by the "forcing people who AREN'T guilty of something to pay other people who DIDN'T have the crime happen to them" argument. Using that rational means no one could sue for wrongful death. Or you couldnt sue a company for a negligent product if that companys ownership switched hands. After all the new owners of Ford "didnt build the exploding Pinto".

[rikzilla]

Although I agree with the article, I find the characature attached to it very offensive. Does "Jim Goad" actually wish to be viewed as a racist? If so, I want nothing to do with him or his opinions.

-z

[shanek]

Originally posted by Tmy
That being said I am always annoyed by the "forcing people who AREN'T guilty of something to pay other people who DIDN'T have the crime happen to them" argument. Using that rational means no one could sue for wrongful death.

Not the same thing. When you sue someone for wrongful death, you're suing the actual person who caused the death. Also, since the death is the very thing you're suing for, it must, of practicality, fall on the next of kin. Neither applies to the slavery reparations issue.

Or you couldnt sue a company for a negligent product if that companys ownership switched hands.

Corporations are different than individuals.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Although I agree with the article, I find the characature attached to it very offensive. Does "Jim Goad" actually wish to be viewed as a racist? If so, I want nothing to do with him or his opinions.

-z


it's no more offensive than a Fat Albert cartoon to me. It's just a cartoon that happens to be black, that's it.

Jim isn't a racist, but he can't help it if people want to call him one for false reasons.

[Crossbow]

Is there still a fuss the slave reparations issue?

I thought it was pretty much a dead topic since it would involve people who had nothing to do with the commission of the crime paying other people money who not victims of the crime.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Crossbow
Is there still a fuss the slave reparations issue?

I thought it was pretty much a dead topic since it would involve people who had nothing to do with the commission of the crime paying other people money who not victims of the crime.


you'd think it would be a dead topic, but if you read the article I posted you'd discover that people are still pushing the idea (in Portland at least).

[Dancing David]

I don't support reparations
I do support
-an education system that provides an equal education to all
-a system that provides equal oppotunity to all individuals (how to insure this is a major problem)

I disagree with the bizzare arguments used to not support reparations
-just because americans of african descent have a higher standard of living does not excuse the obvious evils of slavery
-I think it would be hard to prove that the majority of americans are descended from slaves, the people of the world are descended from africans is a different argument

The main reason to not support reparations is very clear:
-there are plenty of americans whose families never had slaves or benefited from slavery, even amongst southern americans you would be hard pressed to prove that there aren't people who never owned slaves or benefited from slavery. Should reparations be made to the descendants of 'free men' beccause thier skin is dark?

Should we have reparations no, should we fight dicrimination, yes.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Dancing David

Should we have reparations no, should we fight dicrimination, yes.

We should, but we’re not. As long as affirmative action is legal, discrimination exists.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



it's no more offensive than a Fat Albert cartoon to me. It's just a cartoon that happens to be black, that's it.

Jim isn't a racist, but he can't help it if people want to call him one for false reasons.

Maybe not a racist,..perhaps. But If I were concerned about falsely being accused as a racist or an anti-semite I would not append a cartoon of an offensive stereotype to my words.

The black-face cartoon Jim Goad used is to me just as offensive as the "hook-nosed Jew" cartoon that many Arab newspapers use.

At the worst it's racist. At the least it's in horribly bad taste. But that's just my opinion...and I'm not really known for hang-wringing liberalism you know.
-z

[Sundog]

Oh yikes. I agree with Tony (that makes 3) and Rik in the same day. I think I'll go have a little lie down somewhere....

[Tony]

Originally posted by Sundog
Oh yikes. I agree with Tony (that makes 3) and Rik in the same day. I think I'll go have a little lie down somewhere....

http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25494

Did you see this thread? ;)

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by rikzilla

Maybe not a racist,..perhaps. But If I were concerned about falsely being accused as a racist or an anti-semite I would not append a cartoon of an offensive stereotype to my words.



well, Im quite sure that Jim is confident enough to not be concerned about other people getting the wrong idea. His girlfriend is a Jew and his other girlfriends have been black, but this is something you'd have to ask him about as I am not him.


The black-face cartoon Jim Goad used is to me just as offensive as the "hook-nosed Jew" cartoon that many Arab newspapers use.


it's not "black-face" though. It's just a black guy....



At the worst it's racist. At the least it's in horribly bad taste. But that's just my opinion...and I'm not really known for hang-wringing liberalism you know.
-z [/B]

it's not racist and if it's just bad taste, then so be it. Im troubled at why people are so sensitive about black people being featured in political cartoons or just encorporated by white people.

if he used a picture of a character from Fat Albert would you feel the same ?

I mean, it's dealing with black people and slave reparations.....why not use a cartoon of a black person to make it a bit more light hearted ?

anyway.......thats just how I see it.


Anyway......*yawn*

[Tmy]

Originally posted by shanek


Not the same thing. When you sue someone for wrongful death, you're suing the actual person who caused the death. Also, since the death is the very thing you're suing for, it must, of practicality, fall on the next of kin. Neither applies to the slavery reparations issue.



Corporations are different than individuals.

Lots of lawsuit rights can pass to kin, not just wrongful death.


How are corporations different than individuals? Legally speaking they are a person and responsible for the misdeeds of employees done on behalf of the company.

Imagine the United States government as the "corporation". The same government that supported slavery then is the same government thats their today just with different "employees" and "shareholders".

One thing these articles dont talk about is how alot of people are against reparations not because of some sense of fairness but because of their personal resentment and racist attiitued towards blacks.

[Skeptic]

Jim isn't a racist, but he can't help it if people want to call him one for false reasons.

Here, from the same web site, is another of Mr. Jim "non-racist" Goad's projects:

the encyclopedia of race

A long time ago, I promised (threatened?) that ANSWER Me!'s fifth issue would be all about race, but for reasons which should be obvious, I've retired the ANSWER Me! name.

This book, however, will adopt the same encyclopedic breadth and tabloid-style graphics which characterized ANSWER Me!'s issues on murder, suicide, and rape.

The Encyclopedia of Race is a generic title for something to which I might eventually give a more colorful name such as Wide World of Narrow-Mindedness or Everything You Always Wanted to Know About N***ers, Honkies, and Kikes.

[Tony]

Skeptic, are you saying that if someone uses the word "n***er", they are racist?

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Tony
Skeptic, are you saying that if someone uses the word "n***er", they are racist?

Well, it's a good guess; especially when used in conjunction with "kike" and "honkie".

Of course, if this quote doesn't still leaves you in doubt, there are tons of then on his web site.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Skeptic


Well, it's a good guess; especially when used in conjunction with "kike" and "honkie".

Of course, if this quote doesn't still leaves you in doubt, there are tons of then on his web site.


from your logic, South Park is racist too then ?

Jim used the word "N***er" in the same sentence as the word "Honkie". If you're saying he's a racist for having a sense of humor about race, you're reaching.

Did you know that white people are called "Muppetf**ckers" ? I love that word.

[c0rbin]

you'd think it would be a dead topic,

Save for the Trolling provided here on this board :rolleyes:

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



it's not "black-face" though. It's just a black guy....




it's not racist and if it's just bad taste, then so be it. Im troubled at why people are so sensitive about black people being featured in political cartoons or just encorporated by white people.

if he used a picture of a character from Fat Albert would you feel the same ?

I mean, it's dealing with black people and slave reparations.....why not use a cartoon of a black person to make it a bit more light hearted ?

anyway.......thats just how I see it.


Anyway......*yawn*

Of course their sensative! After all its meant to be racist!! Isnt that why you posted it Nie? We've already had this disscussion about your passive agressive racism.

Even this thread is another example . Really, out of all the articles posted in this board how many of them have superfluous graphics attached to them? Almost none, Nie posted it cause he knew it would be offensive. Then once somebody commented about its offensive he can whip out the Fat Albert thingy. (aka the “ blacks say “n***er” why cant whites say “n***er” race card)

The reparations thing really isn’t a big deal, it’s a dead issue except for those bigots who love to bring it up. Even in this forum I would wager that 90% of the reparation threads are started by either JAR, NIE , TONY, or JK. The JREF rouges gallery of racists. You should have matching T-shirts (or hoods, HA!)

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Tmy
Of course their sensative! After all its meant to be racist!! Isnt that why you posted it Nie? We've already had this disscussion about your passive agressive racism.


wrong. "Racist" and "Racism" is a buzzword that you're either choking on for effect or using to further some horsesh*te agenda.


Even this thread is another example . Really, out of all the articles posted in this board how many of them have superfluous graphics attached to them? Almost none, Nie posted it cause he knew it would be offensive.


I posted it because it simple, harmless and funny. Tell you what. I'm going to post a Fat Albert thread and I want you to rush to rescue of all black people in the world and declare it racist if it makes you feel better.



Then once somebody commented about its offensive he can whip out the Fat Albert thingy. (aka the “ blacks say “ni**er” why cant whites say “ni**er” race card)


wrong again. "Ni**er" is a word in the english language. Im not using the word ni**er. "Honkie" "Bino" and "Muppetf**ker" are also words in the english language.

There is no comparison to Fat Albert with your "(aka the “ blacks say “ni**er” why cant whites say “ni**er” race card)".....you're being absurd again.

is any cartoon featuring a black person racist ?






The reparations thing really isn’t a big deal, it’s a dead issue except for those bigots who love to bring it up. Even in this forum I would wager that 90% of the reparation threads are started by either JAR, NIE , TONY, or JK. The JREF rouges gallery of racists. You should have matching T-shirts (or hoods, HA!) [/B]


it came up, because someone has been posting flyers about it in Portland.......so blame them, not Jim.


you're the only real closet racist here.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Is the Patti Smith song "Rock and Roll Ni**er" racist ?

[c0rbin]

Is the Patti Smith song "Rock and Roll Ni**er" racist ?

I wouldn't expect anyone to take me seriously if I claimed it wasn't offensive, Troll.

[Tony]

Originally posted by c0rbin


I wouldn't expect anyone to take me seriously if I claimed it wasn't offensive, Troll.

What's offensive is relative.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser


"Ni**er" is a word in the english language. Im not using the word ni**er. "Honkie" "Bino" and "Muppetf**ker" are also words in the english language.


is any cartoon featuring a black person racist ?



Is burning an American flag offensive? That depends now does it. It depends on whos doing it and why. Its all about intent.

Would you be offended if some AlQueda support bruned a flag in front of you. I would guess yes?

If Boy Scouts were doing it? (to dispose of old flags). I dont think youd be offeneded.

BUT HOW CAN THIS BE? Flag burning is flag burning right?


ps How any times do you hear "Honkie" "Bino" and "Muppetf**ker" ? Do you really think those words are comparable to ni**er?

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Flag burning doesnt offend me. Stupidity does.


Originally posted by Tmy
ps How any times do you hear "Honkie" "Bino" and "Muppetf**ker" ? Do you really think those words are comparable to ni**er? [/B]


yes they are. I hear and use them more than I hear the word "ni**er".

I have a sense of humor though and I dont have an agenda or a ridiculous cross to bear.

[Tmy]

OK Mr. humor. Do youthink the "You might be a redneck" jokes would be as funny if they were told by Farakan instead of Foxworthy.


(OK OK they are NEVER funny anway, but lets pretend for arguments sake)

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Tmy
OK Mr. humor. Do youthink the "You might be a redneck" jokes would be as funny if they were told by Farakan instead of Foxworthy.


(OK OK they are NEVER funny anway, but lets pretend for arguments sake)


of course they would be funny.

what would be funnier (and more appropriate) would be for Farakan to make jokes about poor/uneducated black people. Same sort of humor.

[Pyrrho]

Attention: the word which rhymes with "rigger" but begins with the letter "n" is prohibited on this Forum. Please use asterisks to mask the word. Thanks.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I realize I'm late to this thread and didn't read all the replies, but I'm more interested in why Never Drink Water has such an obsession with racial issues. Discounting his "The Slut Reconsidered" thread of course...

So NTW, what's up with the inordinate interest in issues involving the darkies and why they're so uppity?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser
Is the Patti Smith song "Rock and Roll N*****" racist ?
Not explicitly racist, no; in the song Smith is comparing her "outcast" status as a woman in rock music with the status of blacks in US society. Here's the lyrics (http://www.oceanstar.com/patti/lyrics/******.htm), if anyone's interested. If there's any offensiveness, it's in the usage of the word—for shock purposes, for generalising about the nature of black people, and for attempting to equivocate what are probably two wildly different experiences—rather than the word per se.

Crap. I'm defending NTW. Oh no, here we go (phew):
From the article
The sticky wicket which bludgeons the whole "boo-hoo, gimme money" mantra is the fact that black Americans enjoy the HIGHEST standard of living of any black population on EARTH. So if you want things "repaired" back to how they were before you were enslaved, a one-way ticket to Africa would do the trick.

I think the idea of financial reparations is problematic to say the least, but if that means siding with people who come out with gems like the one above—because that makes slavery alright then, doesn't it?—I'd prefer to sit on the fence. So I can throw rocks.

[hal bidlack]

This thread has been reported, and so I have read it.

I find some of the discussion to be indicative of poor thinking, but that of course, is allowed.

I do find that the cartoon image posted in the first post was unacceptable, and have modified the post to now simply show a link to the image.

While I understand that others may disagree, I believe that image does not belong here. The standard appeal process is available to those who differ.

hal

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by BillyTK

I think the idea of financial reparations is problematic to say the least, but if that means siding with people who come out with gems like the one above—because that makes slavery alright then, doesn't it?—I'd prefer to sit on the fence. So I can throw rocks.

It's the classic false dichotomy. You're either for the reparations you you're against them. No middle ground.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



you'd think it would be a dead topic, but if you read the article I posted you'd discover that people are still pushing the idea (in Portland at least).

OK then. Some people in Portland are asking for slave reparations. And other people think they can photograph ghosts and demons.

I do not waste my time with such things since the one issue is as about unimportant as the other.