Why would God deny man immortality

[Greatest I am]

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
If the man had absorbed the knowledge of good and evil and was like a God then the man would have been good as God is.
Why would God deny a good man immortality. As a good man, he would get to Heaven anyway.
If man was not to become as a God, why did God give us the tool of the tree of good and evil.
This tree, the Bible leads us all to being good. We are in fact asked by the Bible to become as Jesus. Perfect.
Why deny “the man” immortality at that point in time?

Regards
DL

[Oualawouzou]

...

So...

If I follow the analogy right...

God forbids us from using the Bible.

Sounds good.

[Wolfman]

Actually, according to Christian theology, God does not deny man immortality. Quite the opposite -- if you're a good Christian, and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you will have eternal life...which is immortality.

I'm an atheist...so I'm not trying to argue for the veracity of Christian beliefs, just to correct an incorrect assumption about Christian beliefs. Basically, standard Christian argument would go along the lines that, once Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they not only gained knowledge of evil for themselves, but they introduced pain and suffering into the world. Essentially, to live for eternity BEFORE eating the fruit meant an eternity of joy, love, peace, etc. But living for eternity AFTER eating the fruit meant an eternity of pain, suffering, violence, etc.

Thus, god had to create a way to remove the impact of eating that fruit, and restore humans to a condition where they could, in fact, enjoy an immortal existence.

[kinkymagic]

Basically, standard Christian argument would go along the lines that, once Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they not only gained knowledge of evil for themselves, but they introduced pain and suffering into the world.

Is anyone else thinking 'Pandora's Box'?

[Oualawouzou]

Hush, you pagan.

[calebprime]

I've altered your format to make this easier for me to think about.

Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

1) If the man had absorbed the knowledge of good and evil, and was like a God, then the man would have been good--as God is.

2) Why would God deny a good man immortality?

3) As a good man, he would get to Heaven anyway.

4) If man was not to become as a God, why did God give us the tool of the tree of good and evil?

5) This tree--the Bible--leads us all to being good.

6) We are in fact asked by the Bible to become as Jesus. Perfect.

7) Why deny “the man” immortality at that point in time?



some comments:

regarding 1): man's 'knowledge' of good and evil is not necessarily complete, and does not mean that man acts according to this knowledge, in any case

2) do you mean according to the bible, according to philosophers, according to me, or what?

3) according to many Christians, being good is not enough to get you to heaven. for many, you have to accept Jesus.

4) again, whatever imperfect knowledge is suggested by the image of the tree, it is not God-like omniscience or moral perfection

5) Not sure I understand this--the tree is not the Bible. The Bible, in turn, does not literally lead us anywhere. Also, Genesis and the New Testament are from different traditions.

6) can you provide the NT quote to show that we are asked to become perfect?

7) my take: this story in Genesis is a metaphorical way of explaining how awareness is both the cause of suffering and its solution. Animals (excepting elephants, whales, monkeys and other smart critters) seem to have little concept of the future, or of death, or capability to wonder about their place in the world. they are bound to the present. Humans--on the other hand--have a sense of morality, wonder, curiosity and the capacity to suffer because of that. Or they can turn on the TV.

[ilikefrogs]

I've always wondered what would have happened if Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life (which grants immortality) before eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

(Before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't believe any of those ever existed. Just a thought...)

[Marquis de Carabas]

The Tree of Knowledge was not meant as a tool, but a test. God wanted humans to love him and follow him willingly, but in order to do so, they had to be given the opportunity not to.

God cannot abide the presence of sin [it's like Kryptonite or something]. Upon disobeying his command, Adam and Eve introduced sin into themselves, and thereby into the world [it probably leaked out through their naughty bits]. Had they then eaten the fruit of Life, they would have continued to live in sin on his planet for all eternity. That would not do.

So now God had to worry about mortal human bodies and immortal souls. The souls were, after all, his own breath. It's not like that bit could die. Again, though, the souls were all tainted with sin [which smells like rotting fish] so God could not have them hanging around him for all eternity. So he asked Gabriel, "What the Hell did we ever do with that Lucifer chap?" And Gabriel said, "Exactly."

So, souls no longer in a mortal canister could go to Hell with Lucifer, but that didn't solve the original problem God created the humans for--that he was lonely [blow-up doll technology was very primitive in those days]. Now God needed a way to get at least some of those souls all sin free so they could come worship him for all eternity. So, he went off to think about it. Being omniscient, it only took him a few thousand years to come up with an answer: have a son and kill it.

And everybody lived happily ever after.

[headscratcher4]

God refers to Ed-self as "us" is god schitzophrenic? It would explain a lot.

[Darth Rotor]

God refers to Ed-self as "us" is god schitzophrenic? It would explain a lot.
Triune God = more than one.

You say schizophrenic, the Pope says Triune, let's call the whole thing off.

DR

[JayT]

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
If the man had absorbed the knowledge of good and evil and was like a God then the man would have been good as God is.
Why would God deny a good man immortality. As a good man, he would get to Heaven anyway.
If man was not to become as a God, why did God give us the tool of the tree of good and evil.
This tree, the Bible leads us all to being good. We are in fact asked by the Bible to become as Jesus. Perfect.
Why deny “the man” immortality at that point in time?

Regards
DL




He tells you himself!
"I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God"

Exod. 20:5

I'm the dominant god around here and don't you forget it! Grrrrrrrrr.


"The man has now become like one of us ..."

Is there more than one god? Who is he talking to?

Why put the tree there if nobody was supposed to touch it?



Apparently he's afraid we'll do a better job as gods than he did. Look at all the mistakes he made! How dare he demand of us a standard he can't live up to himself?

If one god is all this much trouble, imagine a whole race of them!

Good grief! What a mess!

LOL

[qayak]

Denying man immortality is not a bad thing. Gods, knowing that they can never die, also know that they can never fully appreciate being alive.

Eternal life is not a blessing, it is a curse.

[The Grave]

Triune God = more than one.

You say schizophrenic, the Pope says Triune, let's call the whole thing off.

DR

I personally like Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang... where the "little people" triumph over the Tyranny and Oppression of god-like adults.:crowded:

Griff...

Why would It deny and "equal" share? ... IT is arrogance ^ infinity !!!:(

[The Grave]

A race of gods!

I bet Yahew comes last!!!!!!!!!!:faint:

Griff...

[a_unique_person]

I read the title of this thread, and the first idea that popped into me head was, why does god bother with this whole business anyway? Easier to just make us all, have us in heaven, see how we behave, then send us to hell as necessary. Saves a lot of time and trouble.

[Yiab]

If you're asking about the god of the jews, because he's god and god does whatever the hell he feels like.
If you're asking about the god of the christians, he doesn't, everyone lives forever in either heaven or hell anyway. Personally, I'm more interested in why god would force immortality upon everyone whether they want it or not.

[elliotfc]

If you're asking about the god of the jews, because he's god and god does whatever the hell he feels like.
If you're asking about the god of the christians, he doesn't, everyone lives forever in either heaven or hell anyway. Personally, I'm more interested in why god would force immortality upon everyone whether they want it or not.

That's one way of looking at it.

The immortality is part of our essential design...I dunno how helpful the concept of force is. If we weren't created in that way, we'd be created in another way...forced to be something else. If anything it appears God doesn't force very much at all...he doesn't force you to be content with immortality apparently.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

I read the title of this thread, and the first idea that popped into me head was, why does god bother with this whole business anyway? Easier to just make us all, have us in heaven, see how we behave, then send us to hell as necessary. Saves a lot of time and trouble.

Our eventual heaven (what is heaven anyhow...eternal life in communion with God)will be a re-made earth. Humans were made to live on earth. After we die we'll be in a holding-pattern heaven, with a room prepared for us which no eye has ever seen. The NT is pretty clear about a New Jerusalem (new earth) and resurrected bodies...ostensibly similar to Christ's resurrected bodies...the bodies we were meant to have before the Fall. -Elliot

[David Swidler]

7) my take: this story in Genesis is a metaphorical way of explaining how awareness is both the cause of suffering and its solution. Animals (excepting elephants, whales, monkeys and other smart critters) seem to have little concept of the future, or of death, or capability to wonder about their place in the world. they are bound to the present. Humans--on the other hand--have a sense of morality, wonder, curiosity and the capacity to suffer because of that. Or they can turn on the TV.

That's a pretty good encapsulation of one of the ideas in Ecclesiastes: "...he who increases his knowledge will increase his pain." The same Hebrew word, da'at, is used there and in reference to the tree. It refers not only to being aware of things, but to relationships and intimacy.

[tek]

Yeah, for some reason, I hadn't ever noticed the "us" before until it was presented just now. By God(s), maybe those Raelians were onto something.:rolleyes:

[KingMerv00]

A prerequisite of denial is existance. Therefore, God does not deny man immortality.

[elliotfc]

A prerequisite of denial is existance. Therefore, God does not deny man immortality.

Merv, you oughta shake this ugly stick in every single thread. That, or let's be done with this religion and philosophy forum. God doesn't exist! What's there to talk about!

Yet Merv, I'm telling you, you atheists just can't help it...

-Elliot

[KingMerv00]

Merv, you oughta shake this ugly stick in every single thread. That, or let's be done with this religion and philosophy forum. God doesn't exist! What's there to talk about!

I don't mean to suggest that I am incapable of accepting God as a hypothetical. Every once in a while though, it is important to attack the very premise on which the Bible is based.

Yet Merv, I'm telling you, you atheists just can't help it...

-Elliot

Help what? Saying I don't believe in God or posting in this forum? I assure you, most of my life revolves around neither.

[MelBrooksfan]

Why would God deny man immortality

Because god is a jerk.

[Upchurch]

God refers to Ed-self as "us" is god schitzophrenic? It would explain a lot.
It could be the royal "we".

[Upchurch]

Because god is a jerk.

Maybe Superman (http://www.superdickery.com/galleries.html) was created in God's image....

[MelBrooksfan]

Maybe Superman (http://www.superdickery.com/galleries.html) was created in God's image....

Superman apparently did a stint as Pope, so, at the very least, he's been touched by god.

[elliotfc]

I don't mean to suggest that I am incapable of accepting God as a hypothetical. Every once in a while though, it is important to attack the very premise on which the Bible is based.

Just in case skeptics forget, and start thinking that God *actually* exists? Very thoughtful of you Merv. :)

-Elliot

[calebprime]

That's a pretty good encapsulation of one of the ideas in Ecclesiastes: "...he who increases his knowledge will increase his pain." The same Hebrew word, da'at, is used there and in reference to the tree. It refers not only to being aware of things, but to relationships and intimacy.

what a pleasure to read this--and I'm now curious how the word applies to relationships. say more, if you wish.

[Beerina]

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
[SIZE=2]If the man had absorbed the knowledge of good and evil and was like a God then the man would have been good as God is.
Why would God deny a good man immortality. As a good man, he would get to Heaven anyway.

It's ironic that Man, suffering the fear, terror, and advanced knowledge that he's going to die, suffers from things God does not. He (God) does not fear death. He does not fear pain. He does not fear being raped and having a knife slid into his chest and being a baby having an anus ripped by a grown man's cock or of being an 11 year old girl who is raped, beaten, then wrapped in plastic and buried alive, dying screaming as you know you are being buried.

All praise His good and holy name!

[Beerina]

What a horrible, horrible world this would be if God is as the Bible describes.

Oh woe on us for being plagued with this idiotic reality.

[KingMerv00]

Just in case skeptics forget, and start thinking that God *actually* exists? Very thoughtful of you Merv. :)

-Elliot

The reminder is aimed at the believers, not he skeptics.

[Cleon]

Why would God deny a good man immortality.


"Immortality is a curse, not a blessing." - the Doctor

[pgwenthold]

The Tree of Knowledge was not meant as a tool, but a test. God wanted humans to love him and follow him willingly, but in order to do so, they had to be given the opportunity not to.

God cannot abide the presence of sin [it's like Kryptonite or something].
...

So now God had to worry about mortal human bodies and immortal souls.
...

Now God needed a way to get at least some of those souls all sin free so they could come worship him for all eternity.


Unfortunately, there are only a couple of problems with your story.

1) Why does God need to test anything? A "test" is a way to gain information that you don't know. God, being omniscient, already knew that Adam and Eve would disobey them, so it wasn't a test in anyway. It was a setup.

I also always wonder about that stupid Abraham story where God tells Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. After putting them through all these torturous activities, God stops him and says, "Now I know you love me more than your son." Huh? God is all-knowing, he already knew that! So why send Abraham through the process of having to burn his own son? That's just sadistic.

An omniscient God does not need to test anyone on anything.

2) God is also all-powerful, so all these things about "God had to", "God needed" and "God cannot" are improper. God doesn't "have to" do anything, nor does he "need" anything, and there is nothing God "cannot" do (you could say stupid things like "create a rock he cannot lift" but nothing you have written is a logical tautology. Moreover, it is not necessarily true that he cannot create a rock he cannot lift because one could argue that God is not bound by logic, and hence can violate logic tautologies, but that is a subject for another discussion).

Your description, which is a good effort I'll admit and does a pretty good job of parroting theological explanations, suffers in that it describes non-omnipotent, omniscient god. What use is a god like that?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Unfortunately, there are only a couple of problems with your story.

1) Why does God need to test anything?
It's like picking a scab.

2) God is also all-powerful, so all these things about "God had to", "God needed" and "God cannot" are improper. God doesn't "have to" do anything, nor does he "need" anything, and there is nothing God "cannot" do...
Had to and needed were used to describe steps required for God to carry out His will, not things that God was absolutely beholden to do, so that is no constraint on omnipotence. As for cannot, there is Biblical support for God's being unable to do certain things...

And the Lord...could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
God cannot be tempted with evil
And late in the evening of the sixth day, lo, the Lord did lay down a groove, and was unable to control the shaking of his bootay
OK, so that last one is only in the Carabas Funkadelic Version...

[pgwenthold]

Had to and needed were used to describe steps required for God to carry out His will, not things that God was absolutely beholden to do, so that is no constraint on omnipotence. As for cannot, there is Biblical support for God's being unable to do certain things...


...which, of course, makes perfect sense considering Mark 10:27. Oh wait...dang bible, can't get its story straight.

But it still doesn't quite cut it. Consider for example the issue of souls. After creating the soul, yes he had them to contend with. This is a fairer way of characterizing it because it just says they are there and doesn't compel god to do anything (as is implied with the comment that he _had_ to contend with them). Moreover, when you consider it this way, you realize that there is another option: not contend with them.

Thus, the question of "what to do with souls" is not about God making them mortal or immortal, as that is a false dichotomy. He could have just made them and let them evolve on their own to their own devices.

[Marquis de Carabas]

...which, of course, makes perfect sense considering Mark 10:27. Oh wait...dang bible, can't get its story straight.

But it still doesn't quite cut it. Consider for example the issue of souls. After creating the soul, yes he had them to contend with. This is a fairer way of characterizing it because it just says they are there and doesn't compel god to do anything (as is implied with the comment that he _had_ to contend with them). Moreover, when you consider it this way, you realize that there is another option: not contend with them.

Thus, the question of "what to do with souls" is not about God making them mortal or immortal, as that is a false dichotomy. He could have just made them and let them evolve on their own to their own devices.
You have neglected the Scab-Picking Conjecture.

[pgwenthold]

You have neglected the Scab-Picking Conjecture.

I thought that was just about testing. Sorry...

[Marquis de Carabas]

I thought that was just about testing. Sorry...
I think the Scab-Picking Conjecture is the second best way to explain all actions of God, close behind the Probably He Just Doesn't Exist Supposition.

[Greatest I am]

Actually, according to Christian theology, God does not deny man immortality. Quite the opposite -- if you're a good Christian, and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you will have eternal life...which is immortality.

I'm an atheist...so I'm not trying to argue for the veracity of Christian beliefs, just to correct an incorrect assumption about Christian beliefs. Basically, standard Christian argument would go along the lines that, once Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they not only gained knowledge of evil for themselves, but they introduced pain and suffering into the world. Essentially, to live for eternity BEFORE eating the fruit meant an eternity of joy, love, peace, etc. But living for eternity AFTER eating the fruit meant an eternity of pain, suffering, violence, etc.

Thus, god had to create a way to remove the impact of eating that fruit, and restore humans to a condition where they could, in fact, enjoy an immortal existence.

Deny it before suffering and give it after suffering. Strange.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

knowledge
(http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=10422) vbmenu_register("postmenu_2702712", true);

[Greatest I am]

I've always wondered what would have happened if Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life (which grants immortality) before eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

(Before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't believe any of those ever existed. Just a thought...)

Then we would be like lower animals, not knowing much of anything. Almost everything has good and bad aspects.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

What a horrible, horrible world this would be if God is as the Bible describes.

Oh woe on us for being plagued with this idiotic reality.

God can be found in the Bible but certainly not if you read it literally.

Think the way Jesus would have thought and you will get a better picture of God.

Regards
DL

[KingMerv00]

God can be found in the Bible but certainly not if you read it literally.

Think the way Jesus would have thought and you will get a better picture of God.

RegardsDL

By what means do you choose meek Jesus over the Old Testament God?

How do I know which parts to take literally?

[Hokulele]

Then we would be like lower animals, not knowing much of anything. Almost everything has good and bad aspects.


Why do you think animals are "lower" and do not know much?

[calebprime]

Now Hokulele, you know I admire you enough for you to go into a witness protection program, but he did say "not knowing much of anything."

italics mine.

As Sinatra pointed out, being, doing, and knowing are all different things. Or maybe it was Heidegger.

ah, did you edit?

I retract my post

[Tricky]

Why do you think animals are "lower" and do not know much?
Because they allow themselves to be made into boudin?

Okay, here's my take on why God doesn't want other immortals.

If you're immortal, what does that mean? It means you live forever, right? In other words you have an infinite amount of time to live. So what could you learn in an infinite amount of time? The answer, of course, is "an infinite number of things". Just by being around, you would eventually learn every single thing that there is to be learned, being no longer restricted by such things as brain storage capacity. So eventually, everybody who was immortal would know as much as God. You think God wants A bunch of people who know just as much as Him? What's to keep them from ganging up on Him and overthrowing Him?

Of course, God could put some sort of "governor" on your ability to learn, effectively keeping you stupid (relative to Him). Then you'd hit your learning limit and just kind of twiddle your thumbs throughout eternity. Whee.

[Greatest I am]

By what means do you choose meek Jesus over the Old Testament God?

How do I know which parts to take literally?

Common sense is good.
Asking questions is also good.

Are there talking snakes?
Are there fish that spit people out after three days?
Do humans walk on water?
Would a God need to reboot a faulty experiment with a flood?

If you answered no to these then you should be able to find God in your Bible.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Why do you think animals are "lower" and do not know much?

Do you think them higher forms than man?

Regards
DL

[Hokulele]

Do you think them higher forms than man?


I do not believe that there can be a qualitative ranking of species. No one type of creature is better/worse or higher/lower than any other.

Do you also believe in a racial hierarchy between people?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Do you also believe in a racial hierarchy between people?
Do yourself a favor. Try not to wind up on the same spacecraft (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72603) as GIA.

[Hokulele]

Do yourself a favor. Try not to wind up on the same spacecraft (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72603) as GIA.


You are right, he is probably one of those who gets space sick, and there is no way I would clean up after him.

[Beerina]

No, seriously. If reality is such that you must believe in Jesus or you will be thrown into lava, then this is an idiotic reality, and woe be to us.

I'll state it again in case it's not clear. That is an idiotic design for a universe.

[KingMerv00]

Common sense is good.

Asking questions is also good.


Are there talking snakes?

Are there fish that spit people out after three days?

Do humans walk on water?

Would a God need to reboot a faulty experiment with a flood?


If you answered no to these then you should be able to find God in your Bible.


Regards

DL


So you use your sense to ignore the parts you don't like? Let me try:

People don't walk on water.
Water doesn't turn into wine.
No such thing as immaculate conception.
Demons don't exist and therefore can't be removed from bodies.
A touch cannot heal the sick.
Men don't raise from the dead.

Did I find God yet?

[Loss Leader]

Common sense is good.
Asking questions is also good.

Are there talking snakes?
Are there fish that spit people out after three days?
Do humans walk on water?
Would a God need to reboot a faulty experiment with a flood?

If you answered no to these then you should be able to find God in your Bible.

Regards
DL



Would a god need mortals to worship him?
Would a god be able to have a mortal child?
Would a god care at all about what happens to a finite number of mortals?

[Greatest I am]

I do not believe that there can be a qualitative ranking of species. No one type of creature is better/worse or higher/lower than any other.

Do you also believe in a racial hierarchy between people?

No.
People are all equal.
I do believe that we are above non sentient beings.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

No, seriously. If reality is such that you must believe in Jesus or you will be thrown into lava, then this is an idiotic reality, and woe be to us.

I'll state it again in case it's not clear. That is an idiotic design for a universe.

I agree.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

So you use your sense to ignore the parts you don't like? Let me try:

People don't walk on water.
Water doesn't turn into wine.
No such thing as immaculate conception.
Demons don't exist and therefore can't be removed from bodies.
A touch cannot heal the sick.
Men don't raise from the dead.

Did I find God yet?

I don't know. Did you?
I would agree with most of your examples except for the healing touch. There may be some instances of this but I would attribute it more to the sick person healing themselves with the belief rather than the toucher.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Would a god need mortals to worship him?
Would a god be able to have a mortal child?
Would a god care at all about what happens to a finite number of mortals?

God justifies us.
We justify God.
For all we know, man is the only other independent thinkers in the universe.
God may want or need us as much as we want or need Him.
If He did not care He would not have made His reality known.

Regards
DL

[Beerina]

IIRC, both prayer, and having a positive attitude had little to do with your changes of success in healing.

[Jyera]

Because they allow themselves to be made into boudin?

Okay, here's my take on why God doesn't want other immortals.

If you're immortal, what does that mean? It means you live forever, right? In other words you have an infinite amount of time to live. So what could you learn in an infinite amount of time? The answer, of course, is "an infinite number of things". Just by being around, you would eventually learn every single thing that there is to be learned, being no longer restricted by such things as brain storage capacity. So eventually, everybody who was immortal would know as much as God. You think God wants A bunch of people who know just as much as Him? What's to keep them from ganging up on Him and overthrowing Him?

Of course, God could put some sort of "governor" on your ability to learn, effectively keeping you stupid (relative to Him). Then you'd hit your learning limit and just kind of twiddle your thumbs throughout eternity. Whee.

I agree with this sensible line of thought put forward by Tricky.

To make it even more simple and sensible.

May I replace "God" with a person or group of people ruling the over others. From the context of immortality in ancient times, the tree of live and knowledge is quite simply, knowledge of what to eat to keep living and longer than others.

The desire for a human to deny others of something is nothing unusal.
Many people in power, routinely deny something to people subordinate to them.

Just because the item to be denied is "immortality" , does not make it any extra special. It is only human for "Him" to want to deny "immortality" to others and reserve it to himself.

[kurious_kathy]

Denying man immortality is not a bad thing. Gods, knowing that they can never die, also know that they can never fully appreciate being alive.

Eternal life is not a blessing, it is a curse.

Now there's a good examaple of twisted thinking gayak. Back up a minute...1 God who is holy who wants us to live forever and be holy with him, I call that a blessing myself!

God is the only one that can redeem us and make us holy for him and I myself want to sing his praises for it! Jesus is the light in this dark sinful world.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Now there's a good examaple of twisted thinking gayak. Back up a minute...1 God who is holy who wants us to live forever and be holy with him, I call that a blessing myself!

God is the only one that can redeem us and make us holy for him and I myself want to sing his praises for it! Jesus is the light in this dark sinful world.
It's qayak, not gayak.

[Paulhoff]

Now there's a good examaple of twisted thinking gayak. Back up a minute...1 God who is holy who wants us to live forever and be holy with him, I call that a blessing myself!

God is the only one that can redeem us and make us holy for him and I myself want to sing his praises for it! Jesus is the light in this dark sinful world.
So your so-called god just has to cut out the middle-man (Earth) and have us just go to this so-called heaven stright away, after all your so-called god, to you, made this so-called sinful world. What a childless so-called god you have there. And has for so-called Jesus, his dust is somewhere blowing around.

Paul

:) :) :)

[Greatest I am]

IIRC, both prayer, and having a positive attitude had little to do with your changes of success in healing.

Bio feed back shows you are wrong here.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Now there's a good examaple of twisted thinking gayak. Back up a minute...1 God who is holy who wants us to live forever and be holy with him, I call that a blessing myself!

God is the only one that can redeem us and make us holy for him and I myself want to sing his praises for it! Jesus is the light in this dark sinful world.

Dark sinful world where Jesus has forgiven all sin.

It appears that your God is not very competent if He cannot create anything right.

If you look at the larger picture, you will see a world working exactly the way God wants it to, otherwise He would end a faulty system.

Regards
DL