WTC 7 Explosions BEFORE towers collapsed?

[Thunder]

So Dylan and company have interviewed a supposed OEM employee who saw explosions and a destroyed WTC 7 lobby...BEFORE any of the towers came down.

I would like to see this guy get interviewed by a non-biased reporter...or a debunker...so we can get his FULL story.

If he did indeed see a trashed lobby and some sort of explosion before the towers came down, well then we need to investigate that. But once again, we need the FULL story.

This could be interesting, or it could just be another Willy Rodriguez and his screwed up time line.

[NickUK]

Again though, why would anybody NOT expect to see destruction and hear explosions in a building that had been pounded by tons upon tons of debris?

I just don't get this idea that the sound of something exploding AUTOMATICALLY means a bomb or demolition devices.

[DGM]

The problem with the story so far is it goes against all previous eyewitnesses. It also seems to point to the FDNY lying about what happened. Unnamed source, high level clearance, sounds like a pile of cow poop to me.

[DGM]

Again though, why would anybody NOT expect to see destruction and hear explosions in a building that had been pounded by tons upon tons of debris?

I just don't get this idea that the sound of something exploding AUTOMATICALLY means a bomb or demolition devices.
He's claiming it was BEFORE the towers collapsed.

[Jonnyclueless]

It could be debris from the impact that hit the building beforehand. if not, why would only one person see an explosion that blew up the lobby? I guess without the info all we can do is speculate.

[qarnos]

He's claiming it was BEFORE the towers collapsed.

How does he know if he was inside the building?

[Anti-sophist]

I have to ask...

What exactly was the point of this pre-tower-collapse explosion in WTC7? How many hours later did WTC7 collapse?

I guess that's why we need a new independent investigation!

[Panoply_Prefect]

Linky?

[NickUK]

He's claiming it was BEFORE the towers collapsed.

I really need to learn to read :blush:

[Jonnyclueless]

I have to ask...

What exactly was the point of this pre-tower-collapse explosion in WTC7? How many hours later did WTC7 collapse?

I guess that's why we need a new independent investigation!

I think I may be able to answer on his part:

"we're just here to ask question man".

[DGM]

How does he know if he was inside the building?
Got me. :confused:

[qarnos]

I have to ask...

What exactly was the point of this pre-tower-collapse explosion in WTC7? How many hours later did WTC7 collapse?

Either The New Guy pressed the wrong button or they were explo-slowTM bombs (from the makers of hush-a-boomTM).

[Alareth]

I have to ask...

What exactly was the point of this pre-tower-collapse explosion in WTC7? How many hours later did WTC7 collapse?

I guess that's why we need a new independent investigation!

OMFGWTFBBQ!!!!!!1!!!!1!


It was MaGZ's missle!


Or not, because MaGZ is insane and there was no missle.

[DGM]

Linky?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/190607interview.htm

[jaydeehess]

,,, and once again only one person says, "hey, the lobby of this building was trashed and there was an explosion before WTC 2 fell".

IIRC the lobby of the WTC 7 was trashed BY the collapse of WTC 2 and that several people verify this. However, and this is I believe that the story may come from, there were guys in the stairwells who report hearing an 'explosion' and then the stairwell filled with 'smoke'.

They would have no way of knowing if the 'explosion' was the sound of WTC 2collapsing and the 'smoke' being the smoke and dust of WTC 2 coming up the stairwell of WTC 7.

It is similar , to my mind, with Rodriguez saying that while he was in the basement he heard an explosion and then the plane hit the building. How would a guy in the basement be able to distinquish between the impact of the plane and the explosion of the fuel moments later?

[e^n]

The last time I heard this the source was Barry Jennings and it was a possible misinterpretation of a report.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/300407wtc7explosions.htm

According to cooperativeresearch however, this occured at the time of the WTC2 collapse:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a1210threerescued#a1210threerescu ed

I have the television archives which include that interview I believe, I guess I will sift through them when I have time.

edit: From reading the current prisonplanet articles I am predicting it is this person: When the firefighters go in, they also find a security officer for one of the businesses based in the building, who is trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. Why this guard did not evacuate earlier, along with the rest of WTC 7, is unknown. All three men are escorted out of the building.

edit: A little further research, the source on the timings is NIST NCSTAR 1-8 Page 109-110, the key interview which matter is "WTC 7 Interviews 2041604 and 1041704, spring 2004". I have no idea if these are published or not and would certainly be interesting in light of this most recent claim.

[Thunder]

well, this guy is going to have to provide specific times of when he saw the lobby, if we are to believe that it was before the tower collapsed..and not after.

and as previously mentioned, what if there was damage to the lobby from plane parts that hit the second tower?

[jaydeehess]

The last time I heard this the source was Barry Jennings and it was a possible misinterpretation of a report.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/300407wtc7explosions.htm

According to cooperativeresearch however, this occured at the time of the WTC2 collapse:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a1210threerescued#a1210threerescu ed

I have the television archives which include that interview I believe, I guess I will sift through them when I have time.

edit: From reading the current prisonplanet articles I am predicting it is this person:

Bingo, that's the two I was refering to.

Yes they were in the building before WTC 2 collapsed and while they were in the building the stairwell filled with smoke and dust but that does not equate to, 'they were in the stairwell when smoke and dust filled the stairwell before WTC 2 collapsed'.

Sheesh!!

[lapman]

Either The New Guy pressed the wrong button or they were explo-slowTM bombs (from the makers of hush-a-boomTM).
:wackylaugh: You mean BushCo and ACME?

[Panoply_Prefect]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/190607interview.htm

Tnx.


The Alex Jones show today welcomed Loose Change creators Dylan Avery and Jason Burmas (...)


BURMA!

Why did you say "Burma"?

I panicked.

/S

[e^n]

Bingo, that's the two I was refering to.

Yes they were in the building before WTC 2 collapsed and while they were in the building the stairwell filled with smoke and dust but that does not equate to, 'they were in the stairwell when smoke and dust filled the stairwell before WTC 2 collapsed'.

Sheesh!!

Actually this seems like it may have been after both collapses. NIST seems to have taken it's source from an interview with regards to the time they exited. I don't have anything in the firefighter interviews mentioning barry jennings, i'll have another look through and see if there is any mention of times.

[Thunder]

this is why we need his FULL story. it may indeed by the truthers purposefully misinterpreting his story to say what they want to hear.

[DGM]

Actually this seems like it may have been after both collapses. NIST seems to have taken it's source from an interview with regards to the time they exited. I don't have anything in the firefighter interviews mentioning barry jennings, i'll have another look through and see if there is any mention of times.
It doesn't matter. This ground breaking evidence will surely delay LC:FC 6 months or more.;) :D

[Jonnyclueless]

this is why we need his FULL story. it may indeed by the truthers purposefully misinterpreting his story to say what they want to hear.

Well I think the honest truth is these claims are simply used to hype the story. In other words whenever it seems like the horse has been beaten to death, it's inevitable that the last ditch effort is "well we just got new information that answers that and blows the lid off of everything....we just can't talk about it right now because it's so major". I think it's a way of trying to win the current debate, but not have to be held accountable. And inevitably they have to come forward with the big disappointment which turns out to be nothing. But it gives them a few months to tout how they have proof of an inside job.

Maybe I am wrong and this is the first time they actually do. but if history is any guage, it's nothing but hot air. God knows how long Lyte and Merc went about touting how they had proof a plane didn't hit the pentagon, but refused to show their proof. They used those 4 months or so to boast about their proof before showing it. And that was far from the first time. Before that they spent months boasting about their proof which was the NTSB video. And before that it was something else, etc etc.

Same thing with LC, hence all the different versions. Once LC I was proven a fraud, the answer was "oh well you haven't seen the final cut", and the answer to every issue was "oh well that's in the final cut" (or whatever name was given each time).

So it's like the little boy who cried wolf. Even if they did have something legitimate, they have lost the right to expect it to be taken seriously beforehand.

[Thunder]

Barry Jennings. His story has already been told. Whats the BIG NEWS about him? The 9-11 Deniers have done an interview that they can misconstrue to mean "there were bombs in the buildings before the towers collapsed". Oh Dylan, cant you do better then that?

[boloboffin]

Here's the Cooperative Research page (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1) on this. Sounds a lot like the story being told by Avery's "bombshell" guy.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Electrical surge from the towers feeding back into the electrical substation would do it wouldn't it or am I just Crazy?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Electrical surge from the towers feeding back into the electrical substation would do it wouldn't it or am I just Crazy?
False choice :D j/k

[Swing Dangler]

Gentlemen, don't get overly excited about this bombshell interview and the guaranteed attempt to debunk it afterwards. Until the source is identified, it is strictly hearsay.

[David Wong]

Gentlemen, don't get overly excited about this bombshell interview and the guaranteed attempt to debunk it afterwards. Until the source is identified, it is strictly hearsay.

The italics on "attempt" are nice but it'd have been better if you could have added scare quotes around "debunk" too.

[jhunter1163]

Either The New Guy pressed the wrong button or they were explo-slowTM bombs (from the makers of hush-a-boomTM).

Exslowsives™?

[MaGZ]

So Dylan and company have interviewed a supposed OEM employee who saw explosions and a destroyed WTC 7 lobby...BEFORE any of the towers came down.

I would like to see this guy get interviewed by a non-biased reporter...or a debunker...so we can get his FULL story.

If he did indeed see a trashed lobby and some sort of explosion before the towers came down, well then we need to investigate that. But once again, we need the FULL story.

This could be interesting, or it could just be another Willy Rodriguez and his screwed up time line.

When you get his FULL story you will find the explosion was at 9:03 the time the missile hit WTC 7 on the 14th floor.

[MaGZ]

Maybe one of these individuals is the secret LC eyewitness.
http://www.record-eagle.com/2001/sep/11scene.htm

After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel, when they felt and heard another explosion. First calling for help, they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Jennings said.

[qarnos]

Exslowsives™?

:D I stand corrected.

[Firestone]

Maybe one of these individuals is the secret LC eyewitness.
http://www.record-eagle.com/2001/sep/11scene.htmAfter the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel, when they felt and heard another explosion. First calling for help, they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Jennings said.Well, since Dylan Avery revealed that his "secret LC eyewitness" is called Barry (:)) , for once you are probably right.

However, big surprise, this doesn't fit with your illusory missile.
The incident Jennings and Hess talk about occured during and after the collapse of WTC2. Read here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2703667&postcount=70).

When you get his FULL story you will find the explosion was at 9:03 the time the missile hit WTC 7 on the 14th floor.No, we wont. We already have the FULL story, and it was not at 9:03.

Maybe you should add one more missile to your story?

[DGM]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

9:03 missile doesn't fit the time line to good.

[Alareth]

OMFGWTFBBQ!!!!!!1!!!!1!


It was MaGZ's missle!


Or not, because MaGZ is insane and there was no missle.

When you get his FULL story you will find the explosion was at 9:03 the time the missile hit WTC 7 on the 14th floor.


See! SEE!!!

[Anti-sophist]

I, for one, am impressed. At least MagZ has an alternative hypothesis and some actual "evidence" to back it up. He's like eons beyond most truthers.. into the stratosphere with other intellectual giants as Killtown and Steven Jones.

[MaGZ]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

9:03 missile doesn't fit the time line to good.

Actually, the time line does fit well for the witness experiencing the missile strike at 9:03.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/190607interview.htm

We can reveal that the individual concerned was asked to report to building seven with a city official after the first attack on the North tower but before the second plane hit the South Tower and before their eventual collapse, in order to provide the official with access to different floors of the building.



When he got there he found the office evacuated and after making some calls was told to leave immediately.


It was at this point that he witnessed a bomb going off inside the building:"We subsequently went to the stairwell and were going down the stairs, when we reached the sixth floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way, there was an explosion and the landing gave way. I was left there hanging, I had to climb back up and now had to walk back up to the eighth floor. After getting to the eighth floor everything was dark."

The individual in a second clip detailed hearing further explosions and then described what he saw when he got down to the lobby:"It was totally destroyed, it looked like King Kong had been through it and stepped on it and it was so destroyed i didn't know where I was. It was so destroyed that had to take me out through a hole in the wall, a makeshift hole I believe the fire department made to get me out."

[cloudshipsrule]

It was at this point that he witnessed a bomb going off inside the building:

And you tell us how many HOURS later did WTC7 collapse from this exact moment in time? How many? So what was the purpose of this non-existent bomb?

[DGM]

Actually, the time line does fit well for the witness experiencing the missile strike at 9:03.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/190607interview.htm
MaGZ;
The time line shows the OEM was evacuated a 9:30 am. So the explosion would have to be after that.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

[MaGZ]

And you tell us how many HOURS later did WTC7 collapse from this exact moment in time? How many? So what was the purpose of this non-existent bomb?

Well it wasn’t a bomb but a missile, and I think when more is revealed the time will be 9:03.

[boloboffin]

the individual concerned was asked to report to building seven with a city official after the first attack on the North tower but before the second plane hit the South Tower

OK, maybe I'm off base, but this could be saying that Barry got the call to report to Building 7 between the two attacks, but not necessarily that he got there between the two attacks. Is that too much hairsplitting?

[e^n]

Well it wasn’t a bomb but a missile, and I think when more is revealed the time will be 9:03.

If it is not, will you concede your missile theory is unlikely?

[boloboffin]

Also, MaGZ, you say the missile hit on the 14th floor, but Barry says the explosion came from below him while he was on the eighth floor (or sixth floor, I'm hearing a couple of stories here).

[MaGZ]

MaGZ;
The time line shows the OEM was evacuated a 9:30 am. So the explosion would have to be after that.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

From your link:


Most of Building 7 of the World Trade Center was evacuated around the time the South Tower was hit.


Question:
Why would most of WTC 7 be evacuated at 9:03 if the building was undamaged at that time? There would be no reason to do so if the building was not damaged. You could not use the reason that everyone knew that all tall building might be targeted at 9:03; perhaps later when it was leaned from the FBI that other planes may have been hijacked but not at 9:03 in WTC 7, a building constructed to withstand a 200mph hurricane.
Also there was no fiery debris falling from WTC 1 onto WTC 7. WTC 6 (customs house) was receiving falling debris but not WTC 7.

The reason WTC 7 was evacuated at 9:03 was because it was hit by the missile and was burning on several floors.

[MaGZ]

I will reply in a few days.