Majority of families want a new investigation?

[MarkyX]

We've heard Luke yell that the majority of families want a new investigation. We've all seen several sites with 3-digit number of questions. And of course, we've all seen 9/11 Press for Truth.

The question is...is any of this true? I haven't really found much information on the majority families truly wanting a new investigation, but then again I haven't read anything that the majority were statisfied. It seems the family members still remain human; they have differing opinions, emotions, objectives, and don't even agree with one another.

I've been contacted by a few family members thanking my work and others denouncing me. I didn't check if they were truly family members and I don't see this as an accurate portrayal on the majority/minority of the families' stance of a "new" investigation.

So, any have any information on how the majority of the family members feel about the investigation such as the 9/11 Commission and the NIST report? Or independent investigations like Popular Mechanics?

[The Doc]

I have to say that if I had lost a family member in 9/11, and I felt the wrong people were being blamed... I'd be pretty vocal about it.

However, that's just me and I certainly can't speak for the people who actually did lose a loved one on 9/11.

[CptColumbo]

We've heard Luke yell that the majority of families want a new investigation. We've all seen several sites with 3-digit number of questions. And of course, we've all seen 9/11 Press for Truth.

The question is...is any of this true? I haven't really found much information on the majority families truly wanting a new investigation, but then again I haven't read anything that the majority were statisfied. It seems the family members still remain human; they have differing opinions, emotions, objectives, and don't even agree with one another.

I've been contacted by a few family members thanking my work and some others denounced me. I didn't really check if they were truly family members and I don't see this as an accurate portrayal on the majority/minority of the families even if I did a background check.

So, any have any information on how the majority of the family members feel about the investigation such as the 9/11 Commission and the NIST report? Or independent investigations like Popular Mechanics?

It would be helpful if the "twoofers" defined what qualifies as a "family member." Does it only include spouse, children, sibling, and parents or are uncles, and aunts included as well? How about cousins and in-laws? I suspect, to them, anyone who agrees with them and has some tenuous connection to a 9/11 victim is considered a "family member," and any one who doesn't is a gubmint agent.

I have a feeling that if "twoofers" are conducting a poll about 9/11, they would use the same tactics that psychics use on parents of missing children. Implying that if they don't want a new investigation, they must not care about getting justice for their loved one.

[gumboot]

As far as I can tell, the only significant group of relatives of victims who have made any noise about investigations are those who believe someone in the US government should be held accountable for the failure to prevent the attacks.

This is a far cry from what the CTers are looking for.

-Gumboot

[MarkyX]

I have a feeling that if "twoofers" are conducting a poll about 9/11, they would use the same tactics that psychics use on parents of missing children. Implying that if they don't want a new investigation, they must not care about getting justice for their loved one.

That wouldn't surprise me the least. Been hearing some recent rumors that the Loose Change boys are trying to bribe Structural Engineers to come on their film.

Again, simply rumors.

[stateofgrace]

I've had this thrown in my face a few times on other forums when debating truthers “Why are you not allowing the families their reinvestigation, why do you oppose it? etc".

It is very difficult to counter this agrument because I fell it is simply one that is designed to draw you into an emotive area and make out you are bad guy because you do not support the families concerns. Of course this is completely untrue; I have never seen a single debunker on any forum that has not shown the utmost respect for the victims and their families. Nobody would dismiss genuine concerns of the families and I feel it is the truthers shield that they try to hide behind.

Of course there is this site
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html

I have quickly read through what is said it and it does appear at first reading there is a lot of support from the survivers but when you look closely, there are very few people there that have actually stated they believe 911 was an inside job, if any.

This is the telling statement


Listed below are statements by more than 100 9/11 survivors, victims and family members that contradict or are critical of the 9/11 Commission Report. Their collective voices give credibility to the claim that the 9/11 Commission Report is tragically flawed.



It is then followed by this........


Their criticism of the Commission Report is not inherently irresponsible or illogical, In fact, it is based on their desire to honor the victims of that terrible day by finding the truth and bringing to justice those responsible for these terrible acts.



If there is a sizeable group of family members who support the truthers inside job theories, then they are keeping very quiet about it.

[T.A.M.]

I believe the "majority of victim families" want a new investigation stems SOLELY from the fact that the desginated leader/spokesman for one of the largest groups, his name escapes me, is a full blown truther. They then, in my opinion incorrectly, extrapolate that his views are those of the victims families he represents...

TAM:)

[brodski]

It’s a hard message to deliver, but it needs to be said- just because someone lost a family member on 9/11, it does not give them any special insight into how effective previous investigations were, nor should it give them the right to demand investigations until they get the result they are looking for.

Or rather, it does not give them the right to have their demands met- they can say what they like.
Whilst I have every sympathy with the families of victims of 9/11, their status as a victim does not make them right.

I have seen this in many other areas, were groups uses their grief as a political weapon, to demand pointless, lengthy and expensive further public investigations, or to browbeat politicians and officials into bad legislation or policy, which cannot be justified by rational argument- but can be forced through by appeals to emotion.

Of course, it is very hard to point this out without sounding like a callous, unfeeling bastard.

[MarkyX]

brodski, I understand the logic. My old man kicked the bucket because he had cancer. Does this automatically make me an expert on cancer? Can I go around accusing doctors of being part of a conspiracy? No, of course not.

But I think many people are going a wee bit off-topic here. I'm not asking about whether or not the families want some people in the US government responsibility nor am I asking if they have the "right" to demand a new investigation based on their situation. All I want to know is there any truth that the majority of the victim's families believe there needs to be a new investigation, or are the majority of the family members satisfied with the investigation?

Because, truth be told, they are some claims by the 9/11 Deniers that the majority of family members want an entirely new investigation. They even dare say that they represent the family members. I have yet to see proof on their end that this is true, but I would also like to see proof that this false.

[The Doc]

All I know is that there are no hard stats to back this claim up, nor is there any hard data to refute it. Saying that the majority of families of 9/11 victims support a new investigation or their theories, is pure speculation on the part of the conspiracists.

[Hyperviolet]

I believe the "majority of victim families" want a new investigation stems SOLELY from the fact that the desginated leader/spokesman for one of the largest groups, his name escapes me, is a full blown truther. They then, in my opinion incorrectly, extrapolate that his views are those of the victims families he represents...

TAM:)

I think the person you are referring to is Bill Doyle (father of Joey Doyle), if i'm not mistaken.

"It looks like there was a conspiracy behind 9/11 if you really look at all the facts - a lot of families now feel the same way."

Although, in the interest of accuracy i feel i should add that Mr Doyle believes (or did believe) in the well debunked Silverstein 'Pull It' amongst others.

:)

[gumboot]

Another thing to bear in mind is, often criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report immediately after its release is cited. Just because a relative of a victim was unhappy with the investigation in 2004 doesn't mean they still are. After reflection, after their grief has subsided a little, after the successful conviction of Zacarias Moussaoui, after the Popular Mechanics work, after the release of NIST's report, and so forth, it's quite possible some who were initially very unhappy with the government's accounting are now satisfied.

-Gumboot

[Hyperviolet]

Another thing to bear in mind is, often criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report immediately after its release is cited. Just because a relative of a victim was unhappy with the investigation in 2004 doesn't mean they still are. After reflection, after their grief has subsided a little, after the successful conviction of Zacarias Moussaoui, after the Popular Mechanics work, after the release of NIST's report, and so forth, it's quite possible some who were initially very unhappy with the government's accounting are now satisfied.

-Gumboot

A fair point, Gumboot.

Though id add that Bill Doyle made the remarks about 'a lot of the families' now sharing his views was made in 2006 after these reports and the parents of Alicia Titus voiced their support for the truth movement this year. Furthermore, Press For Truth was released after these reports.

Is this an indication of the other families? I simply do not know.

[T.A.M.]

Hyperviolet:

Thanks, that is the guy. From what I can recall, he is in hip deep in terms of the truther stuff. I think, however, he is taken out of context. Stating that many of the families question, should NOT be extrapolated into "The majority of victim family members want a new investigation", which is what alot of the truthers are claiming.

TAM:)

[Travis]

This reminds me of the dead child effect.

A child, dubbed by the media Baby Aaron, dies a tragic death. The parents somehow get it in their heads that if only all people had a metal "C" stamped into their left hand Baby Aaron wouldn't have died. They go to their congressman who thinks, "what a great photo-op to be seen with the grieving parents and heeding to whatever their demand is," and the congressman agrees to introduce the bill that has everyone get a metal "C" stamped into their left hand.

Many level headed folks have issues with letting this proceed and object. But the bill is now known as the Baby Aaron bill and everyone scolds the objectors for not caring about Baby Aaron. The media sets it up as the bill's supporters are "those that care about Baby Aaron and are sad he died" vs opponents who are "those that hate Baby Aaron and are glad he is dead." Nobody wants to be seen as hating Baby Aaron so everyone gives in and the needless and harmful bill passes and everyone dutifully gets a metal "C" stamped into their hands. All of it because of Baby Aaron's whacked out parents and everybody else's gutlessness in standing up to them.


To the subject at hand. I sincerely doubt that any significant percentage of the family members support an inside job hypothesis. If there were facts to show this being true I'd think the Truthers would have pointed it out by now.

[T.A.M.]

Exactly...great example. Dylan is now going to use the same "Guilting" effect in LC:FC via the GZ workers and their lung troubles...

Shameful

TAM:)

[8den]

Exactly...great example. Dylan is now going to use the same "Guilting" effect in LC:FC via the GZ workers and their lung troubles...

Shameful

TAM:)

The New Stateman's letter of the week this week is someone complaining about the Health of workers at ground zero. Signed by non other than Willie Rodriguez, he dances around the conspiracy claims, but they get a look in, and he talks emotively about his ground zero experience.

It got him a twenty quid voucher for some posh hamper place.

[Brainster]

I suspect that a majority of the 9-11 families still active in the 9-11 families' groups do want a new investigation, for the simple reason that if you were satisfied with the 9-11 Commission's investigation, you wouldn't be still active in the 9-11 families' groups. In other words, it's a self-selected poll.

[gumboot]

This reminds me of the dead child effect.

A child, dubbed by the media Baby Aaron, dies a tragic death. The parents somehow get it in their heads that if only all people had a metal "C" stamped into their left hand Baby Aaron wouldn't have died. They go to their congressman who thinks, "what a great photo-op to be seen with the grieving parents and heeding to whatever their demand is," and the congressman agrees to introduce the bill that has everyone get a metal "C" stamped into their left hand.

Many level headed folks have issues with letting this proceed and object. But the bill is now known as the Baby Aaron bill and everyone scolds the objectors for not caring about Baby Aaron. The media sets it up as the bill's supporters are "those that care about Baby Aaron and are sad he died" vs opponents who are "those that hate Baby Aaron and are glad he is dead." Nobody wants to be seen as hating Baby Aaron so everyone gives in and the needless and harmful bill passes and everyone dutifully gets a metal "C" stamped into their hands. All of it because of Baby Aaron's whacked out parents and everybody else's gutlessness in standing up to them.


To the subject at hand. I sincerely doubt that any significant percentage of the family members support an inside job hypothesis. If there were facts to show this being true I'd think the Truthers would have pointed it out by now.




You've hit the nail on the head. I can't stand that. And it happens all the time here in New Zealand. Get this, a power company here in New Zealand can no longer cut power to a low income person's home for not paying their bill without permission from the government. The reason? A sick person who had an oxygen machine as a backup in the event of breathing trouble died three hours after the power to their home was cut off, after the power company gave them a month's notice and they made no effort to let the power company know what the situation was. Nor did the family's community and church (which were quick to stand behind them post-event) offer assistance, and neither did the family members of the person that died think to call an ambulance while their mother lay their dying.

The frikken Prime Minister even went to her funeral!

-Gumboot

[stateofgrace]

This is what I find so bloody annoying, they make out they are only doing this for the families, they have massive support from them and they only want justice for the families, then they write rubbish like this.

As far as the passengers go........most are probably pure victims while some might even be fabricated identities (do you know anyone that has heavily researched them all and their backgrounds?), some may be expendable patsies or dupes, while others completely complicit operatives for control. We can not rule out the possibility that a few of the family members were involved.


http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=11107&st=50

It as though those that were involved and their families as simply to be used as pawns in their childish games, as those these people are not that important, the only thing that is important is fuelling their paranoid fantasies.

Way to go Lyte, way to be an independent researcher, when in doubt not only blame those that were there but their families as well.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Assuming an average of 5 family members per 9/11 victim, there would be roughly 15,000 family members of those killed on 9/11.

Are the troofers claiming that have a petition containing the verified signatures of 7,501 9/11 family members?