Osama bin Laden May Have Chartered Saudi Flight Out of U.S. after 9/11

[TC329]

Judicial Watch (http://www.judicialwatch.org/6322.shtml)

udicial Watch Releases New FBI Documents: Osama bin Laden May Have Chartered Saudi Flight Out of U.S. after 9/11




(Washington, DC) -- Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, today released new documents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”) related to the “expeditious departure” of Saudi nationals, including members of the bin Laden family, from the United States following the 9/11 attacks. According to one of the formerly confidential documents, dated 9/21/2001, terrorist Osama bin Laden may have chartered one of the Saudi flights.
The document states: “ON 9/19/01, A 727 PLANE LEFT LAX, RYAN FLT #441 TO ORLANDO, FL W/ETA (estimated time of arrival) OF 4-5PM. THE PLANE WAS CHARTERED EITHER BY THE SAUDI ARABIAN ROYAL FAMILY OR OSAMA BIN LADEN…THE LA FBI SEARCHED THE PLANE [REDACTED] LUGGAGE, OF WHICH NOTHING UNUSUAL WAS FOUND.” The plane was allowed to depart the United States after making four stops to pick up passengers, ultimately landing in Paris where all passengers disembarked on 9/20/01, according to the document.


Overall, the FBI’s most recent document production includes details of the six flights between 9/14 and 9/24 that evacuated Saudi royals and bin Laden family members. The documents also contain brief interview summaries and occasional notes from intelligence analysts concerning the cursory screening performed prior to the departures. According to the FBI documents, incredibly not a single Saudi national nor any of the bin Laden family members possessed any information of investigative value.
Moreover, the documents contain numerous errors and inconsistencies which call to question the thoroughness of the FBI’s investigation of the Saudi flights. For example, on one document, the FBI claims to have interviewed 20 of 23 passengers on the Ryan International Airlines flight (commonly referred to as the “Bin Laden Family Flight”). On another document, the FBI claims to have interviewed 15 of 22 passengers on the same flight.



“Eight days after the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history, Osama bin Laden possibly charters a flight to whisk his family out of the country, and it’s not worth more than a luggage search and a few brief interviews?” asked Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “Clearly these documents prove the FBI conducted a slapdash investigation of these Saudi flights. We’ll never know how many investigative leads were lost due to the FBI’s lack of diligence.”


U.S. District Court Judge Richard W. Roberts ordered the FBI to resubmit “proper disclosures” to the Court and Judicial Watch, having previously criticized the adequacy of redaction descriptions, the validity of exemption claims, and other errors in the FBI’s disclosures. Incredibly, the FBI had previously redacted Osama bin Laden’s name from the records in order “to protect privacy interests.”


The latest version of the FBI documents, obtained under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act and through ongoing litigation (Judicial Watch v. Department of Homeland Security & Federal Bureau of Investigation, No. 04-1643 (RWR)) is available below.''

Click here (http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/Saudi%20Docs%202.pdf) to view the latest version of the FBI Saudi Flight Documents

[TC329]

My apologies, I didn't see the other thread when I looked. Feel free to delete....

[Jonnyclueless]

Didn't Osama charter flights in the US all the time? I think it's where he would summer vacation. I used to see him at the In and Out all the time.

[TC329]

Your post now means these declassified highly censored documents have now been debunked in the JREF world, huh?

Americans aren't allowed to board planes.

Osama Bin Laden is allowed to charter flights for his family.

Nothing to see here people. Who cares about the people who couldn't fly home to NY or DC to mourn their lost loved ones? We need to help Osama get his family out of here!!!!!!!!

[Thunder]

um...not sure what to say

[TC329]

Kind of throws a kink into things, don't it?

I'm disgusted and appalled.

But not surprised. I mean the Bush's & Bin Laden's have been business partners for over 4 decades..........

[Brainache]

Umm does that mean that the US Gov. planned and carried out the attacks? Does it mean Bin Laden is just a CIA patsy? Cause I spose if the Government is out to frame an innocent man, the first thing they would do is give other members of his family diplomatic immunity.

Saudi diplomats flying home after 9/11 somehow proves that the attacks were not perpetrated by Arab terrorists? What?

[Unsecured Coins]

Your thread title includes the words "may" and "have" which together induce "speculation" which is in itself, not the first place you go to look for facts. Bin Laden may have, he may not have. I may have won the lottery this week. I might not have. Pure speculation on your part does not in away way shape or form contract me to accept your deduction as the be all end all of factual happenings.

I think this calls for a Salma Hayek picture.

[Jonnyclueless]

Because it's pretty obvious they were talking about the Bin Laden family, not Osama. People make typos. Or are we to believe that one of the FBI's most wanted man was running around Vegas in public? All the names were checked and none showed up in the watch list. Osama would be in that watch list.

Or you could speculate that the FBI was in on it, in which case, why on earth would they write a report?

And the Bush's and Bin Laden's have been business partners for a long time. What is the problem with that? Is this a racial issue? Shouldn't do business with those colored people over there? I'm not following.

[MIKILLINI]

According to one of the formerly confidential documents, dated 9/21/2001, terrorist Osama bin Laden may have chartered one of the Saudi flights.
May have been? hmmm....thats interesting. After this long, they still are not sure?

Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption,
They just released that document, so far all they have is "may have been".
The investigation is going well if "may have been" is enough evidence to prosecute those involved who "may have been" complicit in allowing "what could have been" Osama chartering a flight out of America. :rolleyes:

[WildCat]

Americans aren't allowed to board planes.
Since when?

[gumboot]

I suspect, since this was a FOIA request, that the FBI hasn't released further investigative information regarding this flight because the specific wording of the FOIA request was such that they could justify refusing it.

Much like the "give us all videos that show AA77 hitting the Pentagon" FOIA request.

It is my understanding that if you want cooperation in FOIA requests, you have to be very precise with your language.

-Gumboot

[WildCat]

BTW, TC329 is either an innocent internet user or he may be Osama bin Ladin!

[Unsecured Coins]

This thread MAY need a Salma Hayek picture right about now

[Slayhamlet]

Your post now means these declassified highly censored documents have now been debunked in the JREF world, huh?

Americans aren't allowed to board planes.

This is incorrect. You didn't read the date of the chartered flight, did you?

Osama Bin Laden is allowed to charter flights for his family.

Not confirmed.

Nothing to see here people. Who cares about the people who couldn't fly home to NY or DC to mourn their lost loved ones? We need to help Osama get his family out of here!!!!!!!!

Wrong.

[Slayhamlet]

Kind of throws a kink into things, don't it?

I'm disgusted and appalled.

But not surprised. I mean the Bush's & Bin Laden's have been business partners for over 4 decades..........

I'm disgusted and appalled at your lack of reading comprehension.

[WildCat]

This thread MAY need a Salma Hayek picture right about now
This is TWICE you've not followed through... now follow through and they'd better be as nekkid as forum rules allow!

[Unsecured Coins]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/salma.gif

indeed.

[WildCat]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/salma.gif

indeed.
Nice, the count was 0-2 and you hit a home run!

[Unsecured Coins]

I have a funny feeling that picis going to be right clicked and saved as until this post is somehow moved.

[MIKILLINI]

This thread MAY need a Salma Hayek picture right about now

http://www.robmead.net/files/salma-hayek.jpg

It doesn't hurt to have one of her for ANY thread.

[MIKILLINI]

Now thats poetry in motion!

[Unsecured Coins]

so sayeth the lord. there is no such thing as a "bad" Salma Hayek picture

[ref]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/13639467a03fb42554.jpg

[Brainster]

Your post now means these declassified highly censored documents have now been debunked in the JREF world, huh?

Americans aren't allowed to board planes.

Osama Bin Laden is allowed to charter flights for his family.

Nothing to see here people. Who cares about the people who couldn't fly home to NY or DC to mourn their lost loved ones? We need to help Osama get his family out of here!!!!!!!!

None of the bin Ladens (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp) flew when it was forbidden for US airlines to fly.

[firecoins]

Its my understanding that Osama Bin Laden charted not 1 but 4 flights on 9/11. 2 went to NY, 1 to D.C. and 1 a rural PA community. Nobody had a problem with those 4 flights.

[Metullus]

Why in the world would Osama have to be the one chartering flights for his relatives or for the Sauds? The bin Ladens and Sauds are plenty rich enough themselves to charter their own planes. Osama is not even among the wealthiest in his family much less wealthier than the Sauds.

[GwionX]

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l41/nissx240/SalmaHayek_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/gwion/squirrel.gif

[Redtail]

I'm going with Vida.

http://images.phun.org/phun/galleries/vida_guerra/phun.org_vida_36.jpg

[Pardalis]

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l41/nissx240/SalmaHayek_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/gwion/squirrel.gif

Holy beaver! :eek:

(or is it a prairie dog?)

[gumboot]

I like this thread... :blush:

-Gumboot

[jhunter1163]

Even if bin Laden DID charter a flight to get his family out, so what? What cause did we have to hold his family? What evidence is there that they were involved in anything? Wasn't he disowned by his father?

This is weak even by Twoofy standards.

[T.A.M.]

here is the thing.

Why would the FBI even put to paper, the possible chartering of a flight by OBL, if the FBI was in on the 9/11 cover up, which all of the truthers say they were. Even if a low ranking agent did so, and then presented the document to his higher ups, it would have been shredded...if they were in on the cover up. So this letter, in fact, kind of removes any suspicion of cover up on the part of the FBI.

TAM:)

[gumboot]

Not to mention if the ebil gubmint perpetrators had in their possession evidence of their involvement in the attacks, they certainly wouldn't release it in a FOIA request.

-Gumboot

[T.A.M.]

we should probably stop pointing out the real world obvious, or the words "Game Over" may come up on the screens of the truthers...its all a big game of Tom Clancy Adventures you know.

TAM:)

[einsteen]

Salma Hayek, that's the most interesting post here since ages.:)

[T.A.M.]

We also need a "Post and Run" smilie for our drop in friends like einsteen...

TAM;)

[uk_dave]

We also need a "Post and Run" smilie for our drop in friends like einsteen...

TAM;)

:run:

[negativ]

I sure hope nobody ever reads the PDF linked on the judicialwatch page. Especially not page 28 of it.

[uk_dave]

Hmmm let me just scroll slowly up this thread back to the top.....

....ahhhhh....

...hmmmmm....

..ooooooo.....

:D

[TC329]

I'm going to apologize to anyone that is trying to have a serious discussion because I didn't read your post because of the successful hijacking of yet another one of my threads.

Can't debunk then derail. Pathetic.

I feel bad if some of you are truly just seeking the truth, don't get bogged down in this sewer trying to have an intelligent debate.

This thread is all the proof you need such is not an option here at the JREF

[Jonnyclueless]

There are a lot of boobs in this thread.

[HyJinX]

...and a couple asses, as well.

[Unsecured Coins]

Oh noes... he done broke out the Jessica Biel

[Redtail]

http://www.bossip.com/uploaded_images/vida1-718978.jpg

[negativ]

I'm going to apologize to anyone that is trying to have a serious discussion because I didn't read your post because of the successful hijacking of yet another one of my threads.

Can't debunk then derail. Pathetic.

I feel bad if some of you are truly just seeking the truth, don't get bogged down in this sewer trying to have an intelligent debate.

This thread is all the proof you need such is not an option here at the JREF

Would you mind putting your indignant, petulant frenzy on the back burner for a little bit and tell us:

1. Did you actually read the PDF linked on the JW website?

2. How much of it?

3. What conclusions, if any, did you draw from it?

Bonus question: How many times does the word "Osama" appear in the PDF?

[PhantomWolf]

I'm going to apologize to anyone that is trying to have a serious discussion because I didn't read your post because of the successful hijacking of yet another one of my threads.

Can't debunk then derail. Pathetic.

I feel bad if some of you are truly just seeking the truth, don't get bogged down in this sewer trying to have an intelligent debate.

This thread is all the proof you need such is not an option here at the JREF

There is nothing to debunk, period.

a) It's NOT certain that OBL did charter the plane.

b) Even if he did, it left on the 19th, 4 days AFTER the no-flight ban was lifted.

c) The plane's passangers were questioned and their luggage was searched by the FBI, and they were cleared to leave.

ergo - You have nothing to debunk.

[Unsecured Coins]

http://gallery.upshizzle.com/albums/05.07/jbiel1.gif

thread closed and post deleted in 3, 2,....

[Slayhamlet]

I'm going to apologize to anyone that is trying to have a serious discussion because I didn't read your post because of the successful hijacking of yet another one of my threads.

Can't debunk then derail. Pathetic.

I feel bad if some of you are truly just seeking the truth, don't get bogged down in this sewer trying to have an intelligent debate.

This thread is all the proof you need such is not an option here at the JREF

Who's there to have a serious debate with? Not you, certainly. Everyone here is of one mind on the matter--except the person who didn't read the release carefully (or the documents at all) and reacted with emotion rather than rational thought. Besides, the Salma pictures are much more enjoyable.

So tell me, CT419, what number "smoking gun" are we up to now in the CT repertoire? Is this #267?

[Slayhamlet]

There are a lot of boobs in this thread.

Yep. Many nice sets, and one solitary.

[pomeroo]

Who's there to have a serious debate with? Not you, certainly. Everyone here is of one mind on the matter--except the person who didn't read the release carefully (or the documents at all) and reacted with emotion rather than rational thought. Besides, the Salma pictures are much more enjoyable.

So tell me, CT419, what number "smoking gun" are we up to now in the CT repertoire? Is this #267?




Conspiraider provided a link to the far-left "raw story" site that includes an assessment by an FBI agent:

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Bin_Laden_may_have_arranged_family__06202007.html

[Mr.Herbert]

Um... my wife just asked me who the f*#% Selma is. Looks like I'm shut off once again!

[JimBenArm]

Um... my wife just asked me who the f*#% Selma is. Looks like I'm shut off once again!
Dude! You're supposed to look at the pictures and shout your wife's name!

[Mr.Herbert]

I always mess up that part....

A favorite Al Bundy line after Peg finds his Playboy stash,...

peg: "Al, I don't see what so pretty about her"

Al: "You will tonight Peg, when shes stapled to your back!"

[MIKILLINI]

Yep. Many nice sets, and one solitary.

:dl:

Touche', Slay!

[gumboot]

Dude! You're supposed to look at the pictures and shout your wife's name!


:jaw-dropp Dive! Dive! Alarm!

-Gumboot

[grmcdorman]

:jaw-dropp Dive! Dive! Alarm!

-GumbootIt's supposed to be the other way around, Gumboot:

Alarm! Dive! Dive! [awhooga sirens] :boxedin:

(Actually, in Das Boot in one scene where they do a fast dive, the watch officer goes "Alaaarm!", everybody on conning tower drops down, and they dive. No "Dive! Dive!", no sirens... Mind you, since we've got several real Silent Service types here, they could tell us the real deal. Maybe.)

[Non Believer]

.
You know it is very cool to watch the little JREF gang go after people that do not agree with heir apparently fragile little world. First someone comes with a premise pertinent to the discussion that does not agree with the official story, and then this is the response from the JREF crew.

1- First denounce the claim being made as leading to a conclusion about all the evidence. For example -questioning the flights of the Bin Laden's means you believe none of the evidence for the official story.

2- Question the persons credentials. Attack his credability.

3- Assert that there is a great deal of reading before a person can make a statement on this issue.

4-Claim that there are many alternative theories to the claim being made, but make sure whatever the evidence is, it is not understanable to a novice or it will take a great deal of time to read.

5- Somewhere we got to mention the just juvenille nature of character assaination an ad homienum attacks. Including that the whole group is laughing at you.

6- After JREF has claimed that there are many unknowable explanations to the premise presented by the skeptic of JREF, the Skeptic mat attempt to pin down whether the premise is true or not. At that point, JREF claims the skeptic is commiting the fallacy of false dichotomy. There will be no pinning down of alternate facts here.

One thing is consistent. JREF will not be talking about the direct facts of a premise, only distraction of one sort or another. Too bad T.C if you came looking for a discussion , you came to the wrong place

[Mr.Herbert]

NON Believer -

you forgot the most important thing...

7. HOT pictures of Selma!!!! :eek:

[Tirdun]

.
You know it is very cool to watch the little JREF gang go after people that do not agree with heir apparently fragile little world.
Nothing was posted that fails to agree with my fragile little world. So Saudis flew out with Bush's help? What does this have to do with the attacks? The USA and Saudi Arabia, including the bin Ladens (apart from OBL) have been friendly for years. Was there something seemly about the whole deal? Dunno, neither the post nor document discuss it. It's a tiny new wrinkle in old news.
First someone comes with a premise pertinent to the discussion that does not agree with the official story, and then this is the response from the JREF crew.
Premise? What premise? He posted a summary and link of a document that covers information that's been pretty well covered for years. The administration helped Saudis get out of the US, probably to avoid backlash from the attacks.
1- First denounce the claim being made as leading to a conclusion about all the evidence. For example -questioning the flights of the Bin Laden's means you believe none of the evidence for the official story.
Maybe if the OP had suggested what the document means in any larger context we wouldn't poke fun at it.
2- Question the persons credentials. Attack his credability.
Evidence?
3- Assert that there is a great deal of reading before a person can make a statement on this issue.
He didn't make a statement. He posted a summary and suggested that it meant something, whatever that something is, then failed to follow up in any meaningful way.
4-Claim that there are many alternative theories to the claim being made, but make sure whatever the evidence is, it is not understanable to a novice or it will take a great deal of time to read.
He didn't post a theory.
5- Somewhere we got to mention the just juvenille nature of character assaination an ad homienum attacks. Including that the whole group is laughing at you.
The forum slipped into humor after the poster failed to back up his theory. Or post a theory in the first place. I'm not sure where the ad hominem attacks are, care to elaborate?
Too bad T.C if you came looking for a discussion , you came to the wrong place
If only he'd started a discussion. If he expects us to carry a discussion without him, well, we'll talk about things that interest us. Like Ms Hayek.

If you'd like to start a discussion, pick a topic and be prepared to back it up.

[Unsecured Coins]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/salma-hayek-1.jpg

[T.A.M.]

.
You know it is very cool to watch the little JREF gang go after people that do not agree with heir apparently fragile little world.

Glad you think so...stick around and enjoy it some more.


First someone comes with a premise pertinent to the discussion that does not agree with the official story, and then this is the response from the JREF crew.

1- First denounce the claim being made as leading to a conclusion about all the evidence. For example -questioning the flights of the Bin Laden's means you believe none of the evidence for the official story.

A general assumption we make, yes, but I would make a guess that it is so in about 90% of cases.

.
2- Question the persons credentials. Attack his credability.

If you come in making scientific or engineering claims with out a reputable article to back it up, then absolutely...gotta prove yer not talkin outta yer arse.

.
3- Assert that there is a great deal of reading before a person can make a statement on this issue.

yup...to think otherwise is just STUPID.

.
4-Claim that there are many alternative theories to the claim being made, but make sure whatever the evidence is, it is not understanable to a novice or it will take a great deal of time to read.

If you don't like it, go get an education, or if you have one, than deal with it.

.
5- Somewhere we got to mention the just juvenille nature of character assaination an ad homienum attacks. Including that the whole group is laughing at you.

Well when the cats are bored, and the ball of wool is old, or a dull color, they gotta find entertainment somewhere.

.
6- After JREF has claimed that there are many unknowable explanations to the premise presented by the skeptic of JREF, the Skeptic mat attempt to pin down whether the premise is true or not. At that point, JREF claims the skeptic is commiting the fallacy of false dichotomy. There will be no pinning down of alternate facts here.

Please show me how you can "pin down" alternate facts.

.
One thing is consistent. JREF will not be talking about the direct facts of a premise, only distraction of one sort or another. Too bad T.C if you came looking for a discussion , you came to the wrong place

Don't let the door hit either of you as you exit.

Cheers...have a good truthful weekend.

TAM:)

[Loss Leader]

Osama Bin Laden is allowed to charter flights for his family.

Nothing to see here people. Who cares about the people who couldn't fly home to NY or DC to mourn their lost loved ones? We need to help Osama get his family out of here!!!!!!!!


I see several possible explanations:

1. The US government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks and then, fearing that the Bin Laden family would give evidence of the government's involvement, contacted their friend OBL to have him fly his family out.

2. OBL actually masterminded the 9/11 attacks without the help of the US government and then, fearing for his family's safety, arranged to get them out of the US.

3. The US government helped put together the flight.

4. The US government did not help put together the flight.

5. The guy who wrote the report mistakenly wrote "OBL" in that one and only place when he just meant the Bin Laden family.

Why is one explanation preferable ...

Ah, forget it. Selma Hayek and Penelope Cruz:


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/10503467c38673135c.bmp

[T.A.M.]

Options #1 and #3 are just stupid...but nice pics.

TAM:)

[Texas]

Kind of throws a kink into things, don't it?

I'm disgusted and appalled.

But not surprised. I mean the Bush's & Bin Laden's have been business partners for over 4 decades..........


Not true. The only relationship between Bush and Bin Laden was through Osama's Half brother who was a client of James R. Bath who also invested 50,00 dollars in Arbusto the domestic exploration company that Bush ran. GW Bush never had any business dealings in Saudi Arabia while he was in the private sector. His business focused solely on West Texas oil exploration and development.

[JimBenArm]

It's supposed to be the other way around, Gumboot:

Alarm! Dive! Dive! [awhooga sirens] :boxedin:

(Actually, in Das Boot in one scene where they do a fast dive, the watch officer goes "Alaaarm!", everybody on conning tower drops down, and they dive. No "Dive! Dive!", no sirens... Mind you, since we've got several real Silent Service types here, they could tell us the real deal. Maybe.)
Okay, if you want to know how it really goes;

When the ship is ready to dive (all compartments have reported that the ship is rigged for dive), the diving officer sounds two blasts of the diving alarm (the "aaoogagh" horn), and announces "dive, dive" on the ship's main PA system.

The vents are opened on the ballast tanks, and the ship dives. Modern subs take several minutes to achieve negative buoyancy, so diving is a slow process.

Surfacing, the diving officer just makes an announcement "surface, surface, surface" with no alarm sounding, and the ballast tanks are filled with air. Usually, this is done with the low-pressure blower, via the snorkel mast. The high-pressure air is saved for a real emergency blow, or testing. It takes a long time to recharge the high-pressure air cylinders, so they don't want to use them needlessly.

If you're already underwater, and you need to avoid a collision, there's a procedure called "Emergency Deep", where the Diving Officer sounds the Collision Alarm, announces "Emergency Deep", the Planesman goes full-dive on the planes, trim tanks are flooded to add more ballast, and down you go! This is like taking an express elevator, so you really can feel it. Same with an emergency blow to the surface. That's about the only times where there is any real excitement to it.

Pretty boring stuff, huh? Not exactly like Hollywood, but what in life is?

[Loss Leader]

The high-pressure air is saved for a real emergency blow, or testing.


"Come on, Big D., fly."

[grmcdorman]

Okay, if you want to know how it really goes

[snip]

Pretty boring stuff, huh? Not exactly like Hollywood, but what in life is?Thanks, JimBenArm. I wasn't sure about the siren, since the only source I can recall for that is indeed The Movies, which (except for Da Troothers) is ... um ... usually somewhat unreliable as a source.:rolleyes:

None the less, I suspect that the Das Boot portrayal is reasonably correct, as it's portraying WWII era diesel-electric sub, which were pretty small; sirens were probably redundant for the size. The dive portrayed in the movie I'm speaking of was indeed a crash dive (although it was a drill); none the less, it's not depicted as that fast in the movie. (They have all the crew - well, non-critical crew - scramble to the forward torpedo room, presumably to aid the descent.)

I've got a half-completed model of a U-Boat of that class on my shelf here; it's astonishing the number of crewmen (about 30) they crammed into that little thing.

Small trivia: did you know the submarine (a full-scale, non-diving mockup, actually) used in Indiana Jones (the first one) was borrowed from the Das Boot production?

(Another movie which is reasonably accurate, as far as I understand it, is Master and Commander. Great movie, too.)

[Whiplash]

Holy beaver! :eek:


Thanks, I just had it stuffed.

[JimBenArm]

Thanks, JimBenArm. I wasn't sure about the siren, since the only source I can recall for that is indeed The Movies, which (except for Da Troothers) is ... um ... usually somewhat unreliable as a source.:rolleyes:

None the less, I suspect that the Das Boot portrayal is reasonably correct, as it's portraying WWII era diesel-electric sub, which were pretty small; sirens were probably redundant for the size. The dive portrayed in the movie I'm speaking of was indeed a crash dive (although it was a drill); none the less, it's not depicted as that fast in the movie. (They have all the crew - well, non-critical crew - scramble to the forward torpedo room, presumably to aid the descent.)

I've got a half-completed model of a U-Boat of that class on my shelf here; it's astonishing the number of crewmen (about 30) they crammed into that little thing.

Small trivia: did you know the submarine (a full-scale, non-diving mockup, actually) used in Indiana Jones (the first one) was borrowed from the Das Boot production?

(Another movie which is reasonably accurate, as far as I understand it, is Master and Commander. Great movie, too.)
I understand Das Boot was very accurate in its portrayal of German U-Boat ops. Glad I didn't serve on one of those!
When you talk about the guys running into the torpedo room, reminds me of a prank we'd run on a new Diving Officer. Once he took the watch, a number of us would run fore-to-aft, and mess up his trim. Once he got it back (pumping water from aft trim tanks to the forward ones), we'd all run forward again. Usually after a couple of times, he'd figure out what was going on, and send the roving watch to tell us to knock it off.
I didn't know the part about the mockup. Thanks! That's pretty interesting bit of trivia.
Although the dive portrayed in Das Boot seemed slow, German U-Boats sank like a rock on diving, at least compared to the ones I was on. They could dive in under 30 seconds, while it took a 593 class nuke several minutes.
Oh, well, I'm sure you're all asleep by now. The crazy old man will quit rambling!:D

[negativ]

Someone has to put a stop to this (http://www.search-female-physique.com/4images/data/media/75/friend_monica.jpg).

Might as well be me.

[CurtC]

Pretty boring stuff, huh? Not exactly like Hollywood, but what in life is?
What about the times you get thrown side-to-side by the depth charges, or by the giant squid attacking you? That was always my favorite part of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.

[Unsecured Coins]

Someone has to put a stop to this (http://www.search-female-physique.com/4images/data/media/75/friend_monica.jpg).

Might as well be me.

don't you ever EVER do that again

[Skeptic Guy]

Negativ is evil

[Unsecured Coins]

i call for his immediate ban or his execution. I am not picky and will settle for either

[GwionX]

That person looks like a cross between Sarah Jessica Parker and Fabio.

~Shiver~

I figure the only way to become re-centered is with a healthy dose of Alizee's gyration skills.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/gwion/19710284620.gif

[JimBenArm]

What about the times you get thrown side-to-side by the depth charges, or by the giant squid attacking you? That was always my favorite part of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.
Well, my favorite part is when I get to drive the Flying Sub. Of course, we all have those, too. Plus glass windows on the bow.

[Unsecured Coins]

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2214/hewholurks103aj2dm.gif

[GwionX]

Good lawd! I've been Hyp-mo-tized!