WTC Reconstruction

[Obviousman]

Some CTists are now claiming that the rebuilding of 7 World Trade Center has been done in an extraordinary fast time, almost as though "they had plans ready to go for the rebuilding".

Considering the significance of the site, I don't see anything unusual. I am, however, not an architect nor do I have any experience in the construction industry.

Would those people with experience in those areas comment?

If possible, please also comment on your expertise in the particular field.

I'm planning to use the thread to rebut claims so would prefer "layman" comments kept to an absolute minimum.

Thanks!

[Zep]

Just one clarification requested: How long has it actually taken to reconstruct?

I mean, the site was cleared in 2002 or so, and construction started pretty much immediately. So that's what...five years abuilding to date?

[Brainster]

Reconstruction of Building 7 did not present any signficant problems for several reasons:

1. Nobody died in Building 7 (despite the current push to make it seem so) and nobody was in the rubble, so the steel could be removed at a rapid pace without concern for survivors.

2. It was outside the slurry wall, aka the Bathtub.

3. As it was a non-terrorist target there was no particular significance to rebuilding the building except in the minds of the Deniers.

4. It was not tied up in the ground lease with the Port Authority; this was a property that Silverstein had owned for years and developed originally.

5. It did not get tied up in the "two incidents" litigation.

[Obviousman]

Construction of the new 7 World Trade Center began in 2002, and was completed in 2006 at a cost of $700 million. The 52-story building is 750 feet (228 m) tall, and contains 1,700,000 square feet (158 000 m²) of leasable office space, starting at the 11th floor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

[Zep]

Yeah, I did read that previously, thanks.

What I mean is: Is it some sort of issue that a building of that size takes 4 years to build? Is that too fast? Too slow? I'm no architect or construction engineer, but that doesn't sound like an unreasonable build time compared to other structures of similar size...

[Gravy]

They may be thinking that the construction started suspiciously soon after 9/11. That's not true. Silverstein was required to rebuild within two years. His financing was aided by the same tax-free Liberty Bonds that were offered to many lower-Manhattan businesses after 9/11. Otherwise construction might have had to wait for a major tenant to sign on, which didn't happen until 2006.

[Mancman]

Nothing unusual about the new WTC7. It started late 2002, the first parts of the steel frame were going up in December 2003. (http://www.emporis.com/en/il/pc/?id=170407&aid=19&sro=1&yr=2003&mt=12) It opened May/June 2006, a 4.5 year construction period.

Consider that the architects of the Empire State started design work in September 1929 and the building opened on May 1st 1931. Guess that building is a hologram.

[CFLarsen]

Just one clarification requested: How long has it actually taken to reconstruct?

I mean, the site was cleared in 2002 or so, and construction started pretty much immediately. So that's what...five years abuilding to date?

Bloody slackers.

[uk_dave]

The new wtc7 doesn't appear to be of a particularily complex design. Probably something Architect could dash off on the back of a fag packet while doing the highland fling...or whatever it is scots do for pleasure.

If I recall correctly they did spend a bit of time considering the orientation of the new building to enable the reopening of a major thoroughfare which had been closed off by the old tower...or a view or something.

Alternatively, in 'truther' land the new wtc7 was....

....designed, detailed and the materials purchased before nine-eleventy and the wtc7 collapse was a cunning plan to enable redevelopment of the site as a nest for owls!!11!!1111

[cloudshipsrule]

The rebuild was done pretty quickly in my opinion when one considers that just coating the rebar with explosives would have taken about 4 to 6 months.

[T.A.M.]

yes, and building all those sekrit titanium walled chambers, as well as the concrete underground nuke bunker would have taken at least another 2 years, not to mention the 3 floors dedicated to the Moloch Temple.

TAM;)

[AZCat]

yes, and building all those sekrit titanium walled chambers, as well as the concrete underground nuke bunker would have taken at least another 2 years, not to mention the 3 floors dedicated to the Moloch Temple.

TAM;)

The Moloch Temple comes pre-fabbed. We started doing it that way when the NWO started the current building craze in the late 1990's. We just site-adapt the utilities and plug in the rest.

[T.A.M.]

sort of like a "baby barn"...

a "baby temple"

TAM;)

[Newtons Bit]

Yeah, I did read that previously, thanks.

What I mean is: Is it some sort of issue that a building of that size takes 4 years to build? Is that too fast? Too slow? I'm no architect or construction engineer, but that doesn't sound like an unreasonable build time compared to other structures of similar size...

Once the project gets going, you can complete a floor every 2-4 days if you have the job staged right. There's alot of interior and foundation work to be done also, but the main structure can be finished fast.

For design time, it really depends on when in 2002 it was started. If it was early 2002, then the job was almost certainly a "design-build" job. In other words, the engineers take a good educated guess at what the loads on the foundation will be, and then start construction on the foundation while doing the superstructure above. If it was late 2002, then there was really no rush for the design.

[defaultdotxbe]

The Moloch Temple comes pre-fabbed. We started doing it that way when the NWO started the current building craze in the late 1990's. We just site-adapt the utilities and plug in the rest.
you should see the mkIIIs they are testing now, modelled after the MCVs from command and conquer, drive into an area, double click and in 2 seconds you got your building, double click again and you can drive away

[fezzic]

Just for reference, I recall that the PANYNJ film about the WTC tower(s) stated that they were going up at a rate of 3 stories every 10 days.

[Furcifer]

Well of course Newton is right, you can have 2-4 day cycle times, but this is not typical. For the most part you're gonna see a 5 day cycle on a building like WTC 7, and a crew to match. Someone just stated that they were running 3 stories every 10 days, which is exceptionally fast and more unusual. This does not give the slab much time to cure, unless a quick set up concrete was used. Plus a 3.333 day cycle time screws up your deliveries and trades guys. I can see why someone may find it unusual if they saw 3 stories every 10 days, but not conspiratorial.

[T.A.M.]

yes...but I think? the 3 storeys in 10 days, is in reference to the original WTCs, where as the CTs are in a fluff about the construction time of the new WTC7...IIRC.

TAM:)

[PhantomWolf]

Probably something Architect could dash off on the back of a fag packet while doing the highland fling...or whatever it is scots do for pleasure.

Probably tossing the caber....



minds out of the gutter folks, minds out of the gutter.

[Furcifer]

yes...but I think? the 3 storeys in 10 days, is in reference to the original WTCs, where as the CTs are in a fluff about the construction time of the new WTC7...IIRC.

TAM:)

lol, you're probably right TAM, considering the WTC had three story tall columns it would be hard not to build 3 at a time.

[Travis]

Why would they have plans in hand to reconstruct WTC7 but not for the other buildings at the WTC site? They were gonna quickly rebuild 1.7 million square feet of the 13 million square feet of leasable space lost on 9/11 but not rebuild the remaining 11 million until 2007, with completion in 2010, because they.... just don't like making money.... or what?


Incidentally, if anyone wants to keep up with the reconstruction go here (http://www.earthcam.net/users2/interface.php?i=0&id=445&projectid=202&clientid=158) for a nice zoomable webcam.

[fezzic]

Why would they have plans in hand to reconstruct WTC7 but not for the other buildings at the WTC site? They were gonna quickly rebuild 1.7 million square feet of the 13 million square feet of leasable space lost on 9/11 but not rebuild the remaining 11 million until 2007, with completion in 2010, because they.... just don't like making money.... or what?

7 WTC was Silverstein's. He could build whatever he wanted since he owned the property. It would seem reasonable that he would be in a big hurry to reconstitute the revenue generating property as quickly as he could. He also had less insurance problems with 7 WTC.

The rest of the WTC complex is owned by the PANYNJ, though Silverstein is the leasee, and they would have a major say in what was actually built. Certainly they would not want anything built that they would not mind taking back in 99 years. Add in the political aspect, such as the memorial center?? for the victims, and such, and the design work gets held up while the powers that be collectively decide what's going to be there. The PANYNJ isn't losing out since they still collect the lease rent that Silverstein agreed to in his 99 year lease.

After all the litigation for insurance and such, which might affect what actually gets built (in so far as any special features go), then the design can be finalized then the process of contracting and construction can get underway.

[gumboot]

Surely a rapid rebuild is the last thing the ebil NWO Illuminati super-reptoids would want. While that big gaping hole is there they can pop down to the yearly memorial event and fill up the country with another dose of the "Let's go kill those mangy sand monkeys" hatred that fuels their War of Terror.

-Gumboot

[ElMondoHummus]

Why are they saying "in an extraordinary fast time"? The Sears Tower was put up in less than 3 years (Start: Aug. 1970, finished: May 1973; source searstower.org (sorry, I'm still too junior to posts links here)).

On the other hand, I am forced to admit, this doesn't answer the bulk of the fantasists charge "as though "they had plans ready to go for the rebuilding" ". I'm hoping there's someone out there who does know what design timeframes normally are who can answer authoritatively. But, even without any personal expertise to definitively answer, that charge seems to me to be so much bunk; the conspiracy dreamers don't give any measure of what is an unsuspicious timeframe. They merely throw dirt.

Sigh...

[Thunder]

Actually, the rebuilding of WTC 7 began before the old one even collapsed. Silverstein had all the workers ready to go. How do I know this? I dont. But this clearly isnt about proof...this is about Truth...=)

[DGM]

Actually, the rebuilding of WTC 7 began before the old one even collapsed. Silverstein had all the workers ready to go. How do I know this? I dont. But this clearly isnt about proof...this is about Truth...=)
Actually it was already built and ready to go. They just had to wait for the thermate to cool then roll it in.:D

[Travis]

7 WTC was Silverstein's. He could build whatever he wanted since he owned the property. It would seem reasonable that he would be in a big hurry to reconstitute the revenue generating property as quickly as he could. He also had less insurance problems with 7 WTC.

The rest of the WTC complex is owned by the PANYNJ, though Silverstein is the leasee, and they would have a major say in what was actually built. Certainly they would not want anything built that they would not mind taking back in 99 years. Add in the political aspect, such as the memorial center?? for the victims, and such, and the design work gets held up while the powers that be collectively decide what's going to be there. The PANYNJ isn't losing out since they still collect the lease rent that Silverstein agreed to in his 99 year lease.

After all the litigation for insurance and such, which might affect what actually gets built (in so far as any special features go), then the design can be finalized then the process of contracting and construction can get underway.

Actually I was already aware that PANYNJ owned the complex. My point, which was admittedly not properly made, is that any conspiracy that would have plans already ready to go for WTC7 would certainly include PANYNJ and thus there would be plans for the main WTC site ready to go as well. Thus there wouldn't have been these design competitions with Libeskind winning but his design proving to be unbuildable and being redesigned by Childs in the end. Then the designs for 200, 175 and 150 Greenwich Street were only released this past year, with Foster and Rogers designing two of them, and just this last week JP Morgan Chase released the first rendering of 130 Liberty ST.

If this were a conspiracy then all these designs would have been in the can before American 11 slammed into tower 1. The construction and such may have been delayed by politics and insurance claims but the designs would preexist. That is they would preexist if this conspiracy were run in such a way that the conspirators would have had preexisting designs for the rebuild of WTC7. Why the conspirators, which would have to include PANYNJ if the towers were brought down with explosives, would only think ahead to have design work done ahead of time for WTC7 and none of the others, is what I find hard to believe.

[A W Smith]

hey look!! they have allready built several storys of a building in the parking lot where MaGZ imaginary fantasy fake missile fell.

[fezzic]

Actually I was already aware that PANYNJ owned the complex. My point, which was admittedly not properly made, is that any conspiracy that would have plans already ready to go for WTC7 would certainly include PANYNJ and thus there would be plans for the main WTC site ready to go as well. Thus there wouldn't have been these design competitions with Libeskind winning but his design proving to be unbuildable and being redesigned by Childs in the end. Then the designs for 200, 175 and 150 Greenwich Street were only released this past year, with Foster and Rogers designing two of them, and just this last week JP Morgan Chase released the first rendering of 130 Liberty ST.

If this were a conspiracy then all these designs would have been in the can before American 11 slammed into tower 1. The construction and such may have been delayed by politics and insurance claims but the designs would preexist. That is they would preexist if this conspiracy were run in such a way that the conspirators would have had preexisting designs for the rebuild of WTC7. Why the conspirators, which would have to include PANYNJ if the towers were brought down with explosives, would only think ahead to have design work done ahead of time for WTC7 and none of the others, is what I find hard to believe.

Ah, sorry.

I didn't think about it that way.

[Travis]

Ah, sorry.

I didn't think about it that way.

Don't worry about it.

The entire idea that WTC7 was rebuilt with plans predating the attacks is so stupid as to be laughable anyways. Not as stupid as building toppling flying microwave ovens of death but still pretty stupid.