Hijackers VISA

[Hyperviolet]

Okay, i've been reading lately on the 9/11 hijackers and what i've come across is puzzling. The blunders made on the part are quite astonishing, unless i am missing something.

On their Visa application : Alomari claimed to be a student but didn’t name a school; claimed to be married but didn’t name a spouse; under nationality and gender, he didn’t list anything.
Khalid Almihdhar didnt give a city orstate instead said his destination was 'hotel."
Only one actually gave a US destination, and another amazingly stated his destination as “no.” More amazingly, he got his Visa.
Hani Hanjours application was flagged because he wrote he wanted to visit for three years when the legal limit is two. When he returned two weeks later, he simply changed the form to read “one year” and was accepted.

Apparantly the 6 experts who analysed them when this broke said they should have been flat out denied on their face.

Is this only one side to the story?

[CurtC]

Apparantly the 6 experts who analysed them when this broke said they should have been flat out denied on their face.

Is this only one side to the story?
Only one side? The government was pretty lax with accepting visas pre-9/11. If you can show that the acceptance of these guys was unusual, you might have something.

More amazingly, he got his Visa.A Visa is a credit card.

[Hyperviolet]

Only one side? The government was pretty lax with accepting visas pre-9/11. If you can show that the acceptance of these guys was unusual, you might have something.

A Visa is a credit card.


Yeah, but approving these applications? I mean, they werent even filled out fully never mind correctly. Thats not pretty lax, thats extremely stupid.

Also, Nikolai Wenzel seems to think that is points to "criminal negligence." Now, i dont know if i agree with that... but it certainly makes a case that this is at least "unusual" as you put it.

[gumboot]

From memory, these Visas were all approved at the same Saudi Arabian office which had was found to have a shoddy track record with issuing such Visas. The approval of these Visas can be attributed to good ole fashioned incompetence and corruption, not a special intent to allow terrorists into the country.

-Gumboot

[Hyperviolet]

From memory, these Visas were all approved at the same Saudi Arabian office which had was found to have a shoddy track record with issuing such Visas. The approval of these Visas can be attributed to good ole fashioned incompetence and corruption, not a special intent to allow terrorists into the country.

-Gumboot


Now, im goin to delve into the land of speculation so here is a big
WARNING before reading lol


It is to my understanding that these Visas were granted at the consulate in Jeddah? Along my trail, Mike Springman talks about how this consulate was abused in the 80s for deliberately letting in unqualified applicants. He claims that he was told by superiors to let these guys in against his will and now he seems to suggest this is what might have happened again with these very poor applications.

What can be said about this, if anything?

[gumboot]

What can be said about this, if anything?


I think it's just more evidence that the USA had its guard down. I would hope, if all this is true, that certain staff members at the office have been fired.

Incidentally, a key indicator that these guys were suspect would have been customs stamps on their passports for entering/exiting Afghanistan. But when they went in and out of Afghanistan, they went via Iran, and the Iranian government kindly declined to stamp their passports. How nice of them to aid terrorists.

-Gumboot

[Hyperviolet]

I think it's just more evidence that the USA had its guard down. I would hope, if all this is true, that certain staff members at the office have been fired.

Incidentally, a key indicator that these guys were suspect would have been customs stamps on their passports for entering/exiting Afghanistan. But when they went in and out of Afghanistan, they went via Iran, and the Iranian government kindly declined to stamp their passports. How nice of them to aid terrorists.

-Gumboot

Interesting.
I wasnt aware of the Iranian route.

This topic has plucked my interest. Though the problem again is.. nothing is solid. So you cant really do much except speculate. You know?

[VespaGuy]

Yeah, but approving these applications? I mean, they werent even filled out fully never mind correctly. Thats not pretty lax, thats extremely stupid.

Also, Nikolai Wenzel seems to think that is points to "criminal negligence." Now, i dont know if i agree with that... but it certainly makes a case that this is at least "unusual" as you put it.

Stupity. Lazyness. A very lax system.

Unusual? That depends. How stringent was the process at the time? Are there other applications from the same timeframe with similar missing information?

I'm not sure what you are alluding to, but I see this as just one more strike against the conspiracy theorists. Why leave a paper trail like this behind? If you are going to go so far as to give visas to terrorists, why not make them legit? Do you think it would have been impossible to give the terrorists visas, without making the gov't look like they performed "criminal negligence"? For "criminal masterminds", the folks that pulled off the 9/11 fantasy sure were sloppy.

[T.A.M.]

Hyperviolet:

It is a legitimate point, and it does contribute to my stand of "LIHOI" (Let it Happen out of Incompetence/Ignorance), which I see saw back and forth on.

Pre-9/11, the USA was a ticking time bomb, waiting to have 9/11 happen.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Stupity. Lazyness. A very lax system.

Unusual? That depends. How stringent was the process at the time? Are there other applications from the same timeframe with similar missing information?

I'm not sure what you are alluding to, but I see this as just one more strike against the conspiracy theorists. Why leave a paper trail like this behind? If you are going to go so far as to give visas to terrorists, why not make them legit? Do you think it would have been impossible to give the terrorists visas, without making the gov't look like they performed "criminal negligence"? For "criminal masterminds", the folks that pulled off the 9/11 fantasy sure were sloppy.

This goes to the whole, very logical arguement, that you cannot be both LIHOP or MIHOP, because if you believe the GOVT made 9/11 happen, than why would they leave around so many easily correctable examples of clear INCOMPETENCE.

TAM:)

[gumboot]

My usual response when Conspiracy Theorists bring up things such as this is:

A bureaucracy servicing 300 million people has cracks in it? Gasp! Someone call the New York Times!

-Gumboot

[Hyperviolet]

My usual response when Conspiracy Theorists bring up things such as this is:

A bureaucracy servicing 300 million people has cracks in it? Gasp! Someone call the New York Times!

-Gumboot

I get what you are saying. However, this is quite a big crack and people i hope were fired over it. I mean, did these people even read these applications? At this rate they probably could have written on the form "hello!? i am a terrorist."

[Hyperviolet]

Stupity. Lazyness. A very lax system.

Unusual? That depends. How stringent was the process at the time? Are there other applications from the same timeframe with similar missing information?

I'm not sure what you are alluding to, but I see this as just one more strike against the conspiracy theorists. Why leave a paper trail like this behind? If you are going to go so far as to give visas to terrorists, why not make them legit? Do you think it would have been impossible to give the terrorists visas, without making the gov't look like they performed "criminal negligence"? For "criminal masterminds", the folks that pulled off the 9/11 fantasy sure were sloppy.

VespaGuy,

Im not really sure how stringent the system was... in fact, that is what i'm going to try and dig into. Exactly how out of the ordinary were these types of accepted application. Though, im not sure how successful that'll be. Nikolai Wenzel indicates that it isnt very common judging by his comments. How accurate that is, i have no idea.

In response to leaving a paper trail. Good point. Though, id add this paper trail isnt enough to prove anything anyway. Hypothetically, anyone planning this could just claim incompetance. I have no idea, im just juggling ideas.

At the moment.. im leaning that its probably just a mess up. However, i intent to find out a bit more about it.

If anyone can shed more light on it, id be very grateful!
:)

[Non Believer]

Visa express was launched 3 months before 9-11. Applicants for visas from Saudia Arabia need no longer go to the consulate for an interview to get one. After visa express, a visa applicant need only apply to a private travel agency. 3 of the supposedly known hijackers came to the country this way. We had changed the policy to no longer require in person interviews with Visa applicants from Saudia Arabia.

[T.A.M.]

of course, in the CT world, the above is translated into...

The Neo-cons, plans in place, provided an easy way for the patsie hijackers to enter the country undetected...

BECAUSE FLYING THEM IN ON THE NEO-CON JETS WAS TOO DAMN RISKY!!!!!!

TAM:)

[Non Believer]

And you claim to be concerned about the victims. what A JOKE

[~enigma~]

Visa express was launched 3 months before 9-11. Applicants for visas from Saudia Arabia need no longer go to the consulate for an interview to get one. After visa express, a visa applicant need only apply to a private travel agency. 3 of the supposedly known hijackers came to the country this way. We had changed the policy to no longer require in person interviews with Visa applicants from Saudia Arabia.
And one of the reasons for instituting Visa Express was to reduce lines at consular and diplomatic offices which in turn would lessen the risk of civilian casualties if someone decided to try another Kenya or Tanzania like al-Qaeda did in 98. Considering the wooish subhumans have been screaming about this since 2001, it would be a good idea for them to read up on it (which they apparently are unable to do - I mean read).

[Non Believer]

Cite that satatement Enigma

[twinstead]

And you claim to be concerned about the victims. what A JOKE

And you are accusing innocent people of mass murder all in the name of blind ideology.

So where exactly is the joke now?

[~enigma~]

Cite that satatement Enigma
Why, you won't read it if i do so just do a google search for "visa express reasons." It is not a "plain" statement and you actually have to read and comprehend. I have seen no indication that you can do so so you are free to believe in your fantasy.

[Non Believer]

Apparently Enigma has his own set of rules to play by. No citation necassary, just claim the other guy can't read.

[~enigma~]

Apparently Enigma has his own set of rules to play by. No citation necassary, just claim the other guy can't read.
Ok....my rules. Prove to me you can read and comprehend and all the info regarding the visa express program will be given to you (the links). So get to proving...or not, your choice :)