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calebprime
22nd June 2007, 09:52 AM
Before I have to return Reclaiming History to the library, here is a condensed summary of Bugliosi's summary of evidence against Oswald.

from pgs. 955-966

1-8: 'curtain rods', guns, and uncharacteristic behavior of Oswald:

Instead of visiting his wife and kids on a Friday, as usual, O. went on Thursday, claiming he was picking up curtain rods. However, his apt. already had curtain rods. He did place a long package in the back of Frazier's car the next day, but it contained a rifle. No curtain rods were found. A rifle was found at the scene. O. typically talked about JKF, but avoided the subject the day before. The day of the murder, O. left behind his wedding ring and all the money he had. He didn't bring his lunch.
He walked ahead of Frazier instead of with him into the Book Depository.

11. Howard Brennan witnessed Oswald holding rifle in Depository window. He was 120 feet away. (ca. 12 car-lengths). He picked Oswald out in a lineup.

12. Rifle found on 6th floor of Depository.

13. Oswald first says he was on 1st floor, then later 6th floor of Dep. during interrogation, and his statements about this had other contradictions.

15. Oswald claimed he was eating lunch--not interested in JFK's visit--although he was avidly interested in JFK and politics.

16. Of all employees at the Dep., only Oswald was missing after the murder.

20. Oswald has cabdriver drive past his house instead of stopping in front.

21. There he was seen to be in a hurry.

22-23 Oswald picks up his revolver at rooming house, changes clothes.

24. Oswald murders officer J.D.Tippit, almost a mile from his rooming house. Witness Helen Markham picks him from lineup. There are other witnesses--actually ten of them.

25. Manager of shoe store sees man acting suspiciously, follows him to movie theater, calls police. Cashier at theater says Oswald ducks into theater without paying for ticket.

27,28,29. Oswald fights with police in theater, then refuses to give his name when arrested.

30,31. Oswald's triumphant demeanor after arrest, refuses to take lie-detector test.

33. Oswald's rifle found at Dep. building. Records show this rifle was shipped to O's p.o box in Dallas. Handwriting matches. Prints found. Fibers match clothing O. was wearing that day.

34. Three shells found at scene were fired from rifle.

36. a paper bag holding disassembled rifle found at scene. O's prints found on bag.

37. O's prints found on book cartons in sniper's nest at scene.

38. Revolver found on O. at arrest in theater, same evidence it was sent to his p.o. box in Dallas.

41. paraffin test on Oswald's hands were positive.

42. O. left his jacket behind on first floor of Dep.

44. O. had not performed any work at Dep. that day.

45.-53. Oswald's many proven lies during interrogation.

pomeroo
22nd June 2007, 11:23 AM
Before I have to return Reclaiming History to the library, here is a condensed summary of Bugliosi's summary of evidence against Oswald.

from pgs. 955-966

1-8: 'curtain rods', guns, and uncharacteristic behavior of Oswald:

Instead of visiting his wife and kids on a Friday, as usual, O. went on Thursday, claiming he was picking up curtain rods. However, his apt. already had curtain rods. He did place a long package in the back of Frazier's car the next day, but it contained a rifle. No curtain rods were found. A rifle was found at the scene. O. typically talked about JKF, but avoided the subject the day before. The day of the murder, O. left behind his wedding ring and all the money he had. He didn't bring his lunch.
He walked ahead of Frazier instead of with him into the Book Depository.

11. Howard Brennan witnessed Oswald holding rifle in Depository window. He was 120 feet away. (ca. 12 car-lengths). He picked Oswald out in a lineup.

12. Rifle found on 6th floor of Depository.

13. Oswald first says he was on 1st floor, then later 6th floor of Dep. during interrogation, and his statements about this had other contradictions.

15. Oswald claimed he was eating lunch--not interested in JFK's visit--although he was avidly interested in JFK and politics.

16. Of all employees at the Dep., only Oswald was missing after the murder.

20. Oswald has cabdriver drive past his house instead of stopping in front.

21. There he was seen to be in a hurry.

22-23 Oswald picks up his revolver at rooming house, changes clothes.

24. Oswald murders officer J.D.Tippit, almost a mile from his rooming house. Witness Helen Markham picks him from lineup. There are other witnesses--actually ten of them.

25. Manager of shoe store sees man acting suspiciously, follows him to movie theater, calls police. Cashier at theater says Oswald ducks into theater without paying for ticket.

27,28,29. Oswald fights with police in theater, then refuses to give his name when arrested.

30,31. Oswald's triumphant demeanor after arrest, refuses to take lie-detector test.

33. Oswald's rifle found at Dep. building. Records show this rifle was shipped to O's p.o box in Dallas. Handwriting matches. Prints found. Fibers match clothing O. was wearing that day.

34. Three shells found at scene were fired from rifle.

36. a paper bag holding disassembled rifle found at scene. O's prints found on bag.

37. O's prints found on book cartons in sniper's nest at scene.

38. Revolver found on O. at arrest in theater, same evidence it was sent to his p.o. box in Dallas.

41. paraffin test on Oswald's hands were positive.

42. O. left his jacket behind on first floor of Dep.

44. O. had not performed any work at Dep. that day.

45.-53. Oswald's many proven lies during interrogation.



So, what is that supposed to prove?;)

Regnad Kcin
23rd June 2007, 02:02 PM
The authorities tracked down and apprehended President Kennedy's murderer within an hour or so of the shots being fired. Yet still, over 40 years later, armchair detectives look for any reason to find someone else to blame - many of these sleuths having spent decades on their endless quest, wasting time and effort. I find this strangely satisfying.

CptColumbo
23rd June 2007, 02:40 PM
"He knows a lot about the case, for someone who claims to be innocent."

--Stephen Colbert, prior to interviewing Bugliosi

CurtC
23rd June 2007, 10:13 PM
I've been on three criminal juries in my life, and this list of facts reminds me of the one I was on last summer. The defendant was up against an insurmountable amount of evidence, just like Oswald here, but still we went into the jury room to deliberate and honestly tried and tried to come up with any reason we could call reasonalbe doubt (we couldn't find any).

I realize that here we haven't seen any defense case presented, but I gotta say that with this list we'd be done deliberating in about five minutes.

CptColumbo
23rd June 2007, 10:15 PM
I've been on three criminal juries in my life, and this list of facts reminds me of the one I was on last summer. The defendant was up against an insurmountable amount of evidence, just like Oswald here, but still we went into the jury room to deliberate and honestly tried and tried to come up with any reason we could call reasonalbe doubt (we couldn't find any).

I realize that here we haven't seen any defense case presented, but I gotta say that with this list we'd be done deliberating in about five minutes.

No Henry Fonda types to slow down the process? At least til lunch.

60hzxtl
24th June 2007, 06:50 AM
Was a doubter for years - I have a shelf full of books.
Then I read Gus Russo's book. Perspective is everything.

I'm still bothered by the shooting with that p-o-s rifle, I've actualy been in the window of the depository, and seen it is not as far as it seems, but shooting a target moving away with that weapon still makes me scratch my head. Also bothered by Connelly's refusal to allow the metal in his wrist to be examined after his death, but have realized that many, many of the theorisits on this are quacks.

Diamond
24th June 2007, 07:04 AM
Oswald was a crack shot - no doubt about it.

Bugliosi was right about one thing - most people who doubt the Warren Commission's report have never read it.

SpitfireIX
24th June 2007, 02:21 PM
Oswald was a crack shot - no doubt about it.

Bugliosi was right about one thing - most people who doubt the Warren Commission's report have never read it.


"Crack shot" is an exaggeration. Oswald's rifle qualification scores were mediocre, by US Marine Corps standards.

Conspiracists typically exaggerate both Oswald's alleged poor marksmanship and the difficulty of his shots.

Billdave2
24th June 2007, 02:26 PM
"Crack shot" is an exaggeration. Oswald's rifle qualification scores were mediocre, by US Marine Corps standards.

Conspiracists typically exaggerate both Oswald's alleged poor marksmanship and the difficulty of his shots.

I believe he qualified as "Marksman" which is the second highest level. I saw them show his scorecards in the Peter Jennings documentary "Beyond the Conspiracy and he had above average scores.

SpitfireIX
24th June 2007, 02:50 PM
I believe he qualified as "Marksman" which is the second highest level. I saw them show his scorecards in the Peter Jennings documentary "Beyond the Conspiracy and he had above average scores.


He qualified as "sharpshooter," which is the second-highest level. See here (http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh8/html/WC_Vol8_0157b.htm). When he requalified a few years later, he barely qualified as "marksman," the lowest passing level. Although conspiracists are quick to point out disparaging remarks about Oswald's shooting by former Marine acquantances, a theme I've noticed running through these comments is "he didn't care." It seems likely that Oswald simply didn't apply himself to learning to shoot in the Marines, likely because he wasn't really interested in shooting at targets on the range. However, his qualification as a sharpshooter indicates that he presumably had the ability to shoot well, when he applied himself. Oswald may well have taken his shooting much more seriously after he purchased his rifle and planned to assassinate General Walker.

JamesB
24th June 2007, 03:00 PM
I visited Dealey Plaza last month, the thing I was struck with was how easy of a shot it would have been. You could see the limo coming around the corner, it was only about 30 meters, he could have made the shot with iron sights, much less with a scope.

Retrograde
24th June 2007, 03:41 PM
Oswald's rifle qualification scores were mediocre, by US Marine Corps standards.

Of course, mediocre by USMC standards may be pretty good compared to the general population. And like JamesB, I was surprised by how small Dealy Plaza actually is: after hearing about "the Fence" and "the Grassy Knoll" for years, I expected some large expanse, with plenty of hiding places.

SpitfireIX
24th June 2007, 05:02 PM
Of course, mediocre by USMC standards may be pretty good compared to the general population. . . .


Thus my use of italics.