Barry Jenning's Tale

[Thunder]

So the "big news" from last week was not big news at all. Its is the old story of Barry Jennings and how he went up to OEM in WTC 7, saw the office evacuated, came down, saw bodies, and had to crawl through a hole to get out. He heard "explosions".

Ive listened to the parts of the interview with Dylan has released (he has kept the rest under raps for LC:FC....because he is such a Patriot).

In the short segment, never does Jennings state the times when he went in the building, when he reached OEM, when he ehard explosions, when he went back down. Alex Jones claims it was ALL BEFORE the second plane hit.

Somehow, someway, Alex Jones and Dylan Avery failed to read this news piece which includes Jenning's story:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a903

In it..it reveals the time line of when Jennings went where, why the OEM was evacuated, etc etc.

How convenient for AJ and DA to have missed this story. I am not a very smart man, but if I could find this, then so could they.

[Unsecured Coins]

it was fabricated. Barry doesn't exist

[T.A.M.]

you are fabricated...you don't exist...but please continue to post nice pictures of Selma.

TAM:)

[e^n]

Just out of interest, I emailed Mike Hess and Mike Newman about this to see if I could get a more detailed description, no response as of yet.

[beachnut]

So the "big news" from last week was not big news at all. Its is the old story of Barry Jennings and how he went up to OEM in WTC 7, saw the office evacuated, came down, saw bodies, and had to crawl through a hole to get out. He heard "explosions".

Ive listened to the parts of the interview with Dylan has released (he has kept the rest under raps for LC:FC....because he is such a Patriot).

In the short segment, never does Jennings state the times when he went in the building, when he reached OEM, when he ehard explosions, when he went back down. Alex Jones claims it was ALL BEFORE the second plane hit.

Somehow, someway, Alex Jones and Dylan Avery failed to read this news piece which includes Jenning's story:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a903

In it..it reveals the time line of when Jennings went where, why the OEM was evacuated, etc etc.

How convenient for AJ and DA to have missed this story. I am not a very smart man, but if I could find this, then so could they.
Dylan has to make money and do it selling fraud. Why would Dylan want to mess up his story? Those who buy what Dylan is selling are just too dumb to know better. Seems Alex Jones is just as dumb.

Poor Dylan, a fraud, or just real dumb. He should have saved his money.

[Unsecured Coins]

you are fabricated...you don't exist...but please continue to post nice pictures of Selma.

TAM:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Jaye77/slams.jpg

[Mr.Herbert]

Obviously, Do It Again Dyll Weed Dylan didn't do his homework! The times do NOT match up at all. I wonder what agenda Mr. Jennings has? To be interviewed ON CAMERA...knowing that his story does NOT add up. :confused:


This chick is kinda cute :jaw-dropp


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z204/CaptainObvious2007/hayek-salma-photo-salma-hayek-62059.jpg

[Unsecured Coins]

doood!! I was saving that one for later! For this display of arrogance I will now break into your house and tear one of your household pets in half.

[Mr.Herbert]

Take my wife .. please !

ETA... sorry about posting that one ... I'll refrain from posting the others :)

[DGM]

Obviously, Do It Again Dyll Weed Dylan didn't do his homework! The times do NOT match up at all. I wonder what agenda Mr. Jennings has? To be interviewed ON CAMERA...knowing that his story does NOT add up.

I wonder if Mr Jennings even knows. It wouldn't be too surprising if the whole interview was a out of context deal.
It would fit as far as not wanting to release his name. Jennings doesn't seem like the type that listens to Jones or would even know who Avery was.

PS Ever see any truthers in MA? I'm from MA also and can't find them.

[WildCat]

Somehow, someway, Alex Jones and Dylan Avery failed to read this news piece which includes Jenning's story:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a903
I love it when one truth site debunks another!

[Mr.Herbert]

PS Ever see any truthers in MA? I'm from MA also and can't find them.

There are several of them, I had a list of the contacts at one time. They held a demonstration once a few months ago. Got ZERO press.

Just an FYI :
I was banned from LC Forum last week when I attempted to ask for the times of Mr. Jennings visit to WTC -7. (3 minutes after posting)

I came to work today and decided to make another name and start my own thread under their "Skeptics" forum. I made the name "Barry Jennings" and was able to start a thread. I put in a time line and asked if anyone could actually explain it.

Well I've been banned twice with two posts!!! WOO HOO . 2 names, 2 posts, 2 bannings!

I saved my thread/post as a WEB page...but Im not sure how to get it uploaded on here! help?

[Unsecured Coins]

photobucket.com is your friend

[Mr.Herbert]

I have photobucket... I saved the web page as a HTML... Photobucket can't recognize it

[Unsecured Coins]

then reading comprehesion is not MY friend.

[Mr.Herbert]

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Barry Jennings (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showuser=5406)
Posted: Jun 24 2007, 09:48 AM
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Hello everyone. As my first post in here I would like to bring up a couple things.

First of all, I was kind of ticked off the other day when I heard of an eyewitness to bombs in WTC - 7.

After reading what Alex Jones posted, I decided to do some research and found quite easily that the secret witness is non other than Barry Jennings.

What I don't understand is:

#1 Why the secret?

#2 Why did he change his story?

If you read his original statements, i don't see this story as adding up.

Lets address this time line and please tell me where he heard these explosions!

1- Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of WTC 7 at 9:44 AM INCLUDING the 23rd flr. OEM Center.

2- Jennings arrives at the 23rd floor to an abandoned OEM center. Makea a few calls and then is told to evacuate.

3- I have yet to find a time as to when he arrived at the 23rd floor. But lets assume it took at least 5 minutes to evacuate the OEM center at 9:44. We are now looking at about 10 minutes to 10. 9:50AM

4- So Lets say Jennings arrived EXACTLY 5 minutes after OEM evacuated. That puts us at 9:55.

6- Jenning makes a few calls and is told to evacuate. approx.1-2 Minutes. That puts us at 9:57

7- Jennings then heads to the elevator and is waiting, 9:59AM WTC2 collapses the lights flicker inside WTC-7

8- Jennings was waiting for an unspecified amount of time, learned that the elevator did not work so headed for the staircase.

9- When Jennings got down to the 6th floor it was 10:28am. WTC1 collapsed. Jennings and the gentleman he was with were stuck.

So, although we don't have a conclusive time as to how long Jennings was waiting for the elevator or how long it took him to get down the stairs...the fact is. Jennings explosions he heard were WTC2 collapsing.

You can find the times in the NIST report: Before you crap on the NIST report. This is the version Mr. Jennings GAVE!

http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?act=Post&CODE=06&f=26&t=11290&p=13942340)

Even IF Jennings remembered anything different from when he did his counltess interviews and his testimony to NIST...he claims it was AFTER he reached the empty OEM, and AFTER he made a couple phone calls. This time line puts him right at the collapse time of WTC2. explaining the explosions he heard.

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[cloudshipsrule]

Thanks for this post guys. I was trying to look up this info the hard way.

[Panoply_Prefect]

#1 Why the secret?

#2 Why did he change his story?



Could anyone direct me to his original statement?

I came across mr Jennings just now, when a truther posted this here article as evidence WTC7 was CD:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_amy_de_m_070621_barry_jennings_3a_wtc_.htm

especially this passage:


At that point he made some phone calls, and an un-named individual told them to "leave, and leave right away". Jennings and Hess then proceeded to the stairs, and made it to level 6, when there was an explosion, and the stairwell collapsed from under their feet, Mr. Jennings was actually hanging, and had to climb back up. They made it back up to level 8, where Barry Jennings had a view of the twin towers, both buildings were still standing. This is an important detail, as many debunkers have used Mr. Jennings statements out of context to claim the damage came to WTC 7 from the towers collapsing, not the case according, to Mr. Jennings.



Cheers,
SLOB

[MarkyX]

I was sent this link today via email:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=429497217632201010&hl=en

I can't listen to the audio at the moment, but why do I get another feeling it's been edited or taken out of context?

[Panoply_Prefect]

I still dont get this Jennings story. Does he claim that the WTC7 lobby was hit by an explosion, with dead bodys about, prior to the fall of WTC1 and 2, as the link I got claimed? Or didn't he? Was he misquoted? Has he changed his story over time?

What?

/S

[Kent1]

I thought I'd post this. Its kind of a side point.

Many people in the lobby did not leave the building at around 9:30-9:45. They moved to the southern corner of the building. There were at least 30 when the first building collapsed.

Check out the VERY interesting testimony by J. Peruggia.


http://www.nistreview.org/EMS1.pdf

Its a large document, you'll have to search for "J. Peruggia" and the number "7".

Sorry I don't have time to cut and paste. But please check it out.

[PhantomWolf]

I still dont get this Jennings story. Does he claim that the WTC7 lobby was hit by an explosion, with dead bodys about, prior to the fall of WTC1 and 2, as the link I got claimed? Or didn't he? Was he misquoted? Has he changed his story over time?

What?

/S

I suppect he's been misquoted, or at least carefully lead and edited. The lobby of WTC 7 was used as a triage centre from the WTC 1 & 2 so it is quite possible that there were bodies in there without them having been killed there, and we already know that the "explosion" and damage was caused by the building being hit by WTC 1 as it collapsed.

[Foolmewunz]

Bump, to say "Good Work" to noob, Mr. Herbert....

Apparently Dylan's not going to let anyone question the source or the timeline, although he let slip the name, himself, the dumb putz! He (and more likely IVXX) have been sitting on the two or three news threads and deleting posts that make him look insane as quickly as they can. e^n was getting dizzy trying to keep up with the his disappearing posts, I think!

[PhantomWolf]

Bump, to say "Good Work" to noob, Mr. Herbert....

Apparently Dylan's not going to let anyone question the source or the timeline, although he let slip the name, himself, the dumb putz! He (and more likely IVXX) have been sitting on the two or three news threads and deleting posts that make him look insane as quickly as they can. e^n was getting dizzy trying to keep up with the his disappearing posts, I think!

Yay for freedom of speech and "ask questions demand answers!"

[Travis]

Why would the evil conspirators set off an explosion in WTC7 before the twin towers collapsed? To test the explosive stuff? To get everyone extra specially antsy in case planes hitting buildings hadn't already done it enough? Because Silverstein is so evil he likes blowing stuff up out of order just for the heck of it? Because a dumb associate hit the wrong button from the OEM while trying to answer a cellphone, drink coffee and ogle the Playmate of the month at the same time?

[LashL]

I'll take door number 4, Monty.

;)

[qarnos]

Why would the evil conspirators set off an explosion in WTC7 before the twin towers collapsed? To test the explosive stuff? To get everyone extra specially antsy in case planes hitting buildings hadn't already done it enough? Because Silverstein is so evil he likes blowing stuff up out of order just for the heck of it? Because a dumb associate hit the wrong button from the OEM while trying to answer a cellphone, drink coffee and ogle the Playmate of the month at the same time?

Any true conspirator will tell you it is because the masterminds are so smart that it's too easy for them to pull this whole thing off flawlessly, so they leave behind little deliberate clues, just to make it fun!

This is what some CT nuts actually believe.

[gumboot]

Yes I have heard some CTers claim that the perpetrators made their plot obvious on purpose because they're mocking the stupidity of the average citizen.

Of course they didn't count on the super observational powers of the awesomely smart Truth Movement...

-Gumboot

[DarkMagician]

Yes I have heard some CTers claim that the perpetrators made their plot obvious on purpose because they're mocking the stupidity of the average citizen.

Of course they didn't count on the super observational powers of the awesomely smart Truth Movement...

-Gumboot

Oh god, can it be the Trans-siberian Double Bluff!?

[Redtail]

Yes I have heard some CTers claim that the perpetrators made their plot obvious on purpose because they're mocking the stupidity of the average citizen.

Of course they didn't count on the super observational powers of the awesomely smart Truth Movement...

-Gumboot

LOL! I just ran across a truther essentially say the same thing!

[e^n]

Its a large document, you'll have to search for "J. Peruggia" and the number "7".

Sorry I don't have time to cut and paste. But please check it out.

There is a split version of this available on the nytimes website here: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110160.PDF

[VespaGuy]

PS Ever see any truthers in MA? I'm from MA also and can't find them.

Nope. I live in MA, too. I had a coworker who excitedly mentioned a 'cool 9/11 movie' he saw on the internet that somebody showed him. I told him that the 9/11 internet movies have all been debunked, and that if he let me know which one it was I could steer him in the right direction regarding real information.
He just shrugged and said, "nah, I figured it was lot bull anyway." I got the impression that if nobody challenged him, he would have told everyone in the office about his 'find' and seem like a really informed guy, but as soon as someone knew more than him he quickly dropped the whole charade. He hasn't mentioned it since.

That's my only run-in with 9/11 conspiracies so far. Then again, most of my friends are engineers and professionals. Funny how the more educated social circles tend to have less 'truthers'.

What part of MA are you in, DGM?

[Kent1]

Here is what looks like video inside WTC7 after the first building fell.

Start watching at about 21:45 minutes in.

http://www.archive.org/details/bbc200109111121-1202

[Totovader]

Fetzer issued one of his "press releases" yesterday, trying to claim that it's all coming together.

It's one of those articles that's so frustrating to read that it's almost not even worth mentioning:

"NIST exploring 9/11 conspiracy theory for WTC-7: New witness confirms Scholars previous findings" (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_james_fe_070701_nist_exploring_9_2f11_.htm)

New witness confirms a death ray from outer space? Oh, guess not...

[MaGZ]

What is the latest information on Berry Jennings. Will Gravy debunk his comments as he did William Rodriguez?

[qarnos]

What is the latest information on Berry Jennings. Will Gravy debunk his comments as he did William Rodriguez?

It's Barry.

[JAStewart]

You need to understand that Gravy doesn't need to debunk every single thing. He's just a human, with a life. Also, since the CD theory isn't plausible, why should we still bother with it? (I'm assuming that is what this is about, if not, disregard)

[Thunder]

MaGz-

Barry Jennings was kidnapped by the Zionists. They are trying to convert him to Kabbalaism.

:D

[MaGZ]

I thought Jennings would come forward with more details about his experience with the explosion in the stairwell of WTC 7 after the latest edition of LC came out.

Why wouldn’t Gravy try to debunk Jennings. He did so well with Rodriguez.

[Arus808]

because jennings isn't out to make money off of his lies. And what would be the point of Jennings coming out? he said he heard explosions; he did not see bombs and we already know that he is messed up on his timeline of events. His "issue" is really a non-issue, since facts do not support his claims.

[MaGZ]

because jennings isn't out to make money off of his lies. And what would be the point of Jennings coming out? he said he heard explosions; he did not see bombs and we already know that he is messed up on his timeline of events. His "issue" is really a non-issue, since facts do not support his claims.

Why do you think Jennings is lying? I believe the man to be sincere but just does not understand why there would be an explosion at 9:03 that morning inside WTC 7. What motive would Jennings have to lie?

[Alferd_Packer]

What about the lawyer that as with him?

[Arus808]

Why do you think Jennings is lying?
did i state that he was lying. you were comparing him to rodriguez who is a known liar.

I believe the man to be sincere but just does not understand why there would be an explosion at 9:03 that morning inside WTC 7. What motive would Jennings have to lie?

what motive would he have to question the findings of an official report done by hundreds of individuals, based on his experience? It is apparent that he is not interested in learning what happened about the things he experienced, and rather keep on with the belief that what he "heard" was the truth, when he couldn't even get the timeline of the events he experienced correctly.

this is why eye witness (or ear witness) testimony is BACKED up by evidence. There is much evidence IN OTHER testimonies that places what he claims at certain times to be wrogn, and of course, the physical evidence proves that what he claims didn't happen.

Yes he is definitely making a mistake with his claims, but to keep on about the events, when he's been shown that he is wrong and told that, and the reports from several people have shown that, it borders on dishonesty.

[Alferd_Packer]

12:10 p.m.-12:15 p.m. September 11, 2001: Firefighters Rescue Three People Trapped in WTC 7
Most of Building 7 of the World Trade Center was evacuated around the time the South Tower was hit (see (9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001). However, firefighters find three individuals who have become trapped inside it. Among them are Barry Jennings, a City Housing Authority worker, and Mike Hess, New York’s chief lawyer who is also a longtime friend of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. The two had gone up to the 23rd floor headquarters of the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management some time before 10 a.m., but found it empty. (It was evacuated at 9:30 a.m.; see 9:30 a.m. September 11, 2001.) They headed downstairs but became trapped around the sixth floor by smoke and debris that filled the staircase as a result of the North Tower collapsing at 10:28 a.m. After breaking a window and calling for help, they were spotted by firefighters outside. When the firefighters go in, they also find a security officer for one of the businesses based in the building, who is trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. Why this guard did not evacuate earlier, along with the rest of WTC 7, is unknown. All three men are escorted out of the building.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

[Gravy]

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2716031&postcount=16

[Calcas]

What is the latest information on Berry Jennings. Will Gravy debunk his comments as he did William Rodriguez?

How is it that we even listen to your nonsense anymore?

You and A-Train are so far out there on the woo scale that it boggles my mind.

[leftysergeant]

Okay, where can I find transcripts of statements made by Hess and Jennings?

It seems to me that his finding the OEM abandoned, apparently at the spur of the moment, would indicate that all of these events occurred after the police and fire department had notified Giulliani that collapse was expected. Thus, it was probably the collapse of the south tower that blew him back into the building the first time he tried to leave.

Mention is made in some posts I have read suggesting that he looked out a window and saw both buildings still standing, but this may be because he PERCIEVED both to still be there when he was, rather, Looking a the still-unsettled dust of the south tower.

[Brainster]

Barry Jennings, like Norm Mineta, just has the time wrong. End of story.

[Alferd_Packer]

I think it is hilarious that he makes out this story of a harrowing escape, when in fact, they shouldn’t have been in the building in the first place and had to be rescued out by the fire department and hour and a half AFTER WTC 1 collapsed.

[MaGZ]

Okay, where can I find transcripts of statements made by Hess and Jennings?

It seems to me that his finding the OEM abandoned, apparently at the spur of the moment, would indicate that all of these events occurred after the police and fire department had notified Giulliani that collapse was expected. Thus, it was probably the collapse of the south tower that blew him back into the building the first time he tried to leave.

Mention is made in some posts I have read suggesting that he looked out a window and saw both buildings still standing, but this may be because he PERCIEVED both to still be there when he was, rather, Looking a the still-unsettled dust of the south tower.

I think the reason Jennings found the 23 floor abandoned is because they knew flight 175 was bearing down on NYC. The emergency command post abandoned the area because they knew another plane was heading their way. Jennings made few calls and went down the stairwell next to the service elevator on the south side of WTC 7. Flight 175 hit WTC 2 and seconds later a missile fired by one of the fighters hit WTC 7.

[jhunter1163]

I think the reason Jennings found the 23 floor abandoned is because they knew flight 175 was bearing down on NYC. The emergency command post abandoned the area because they knew another plane was heading their way. Jennings made few calls and went down the stairwell next to the service elevator on the south side of WTC 7. Flight 175 hit WTC 2 and seconds later a missile fired by one of the fighters hit WTC 7.


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Jennings found the OEM empty; it was evacuated at 9:30, see Alferd_Packer's post. It was empty, according to MaGZ, because the eeeeeebil gubmint knew UA175 was coming.

Does someone want to remind MaGZ just what time UA175 hit the WTC? Hint: It was well before 9:30.

[Foolmewunz]

I thought Jennings would come forward with more details about his experience with the explosion in the stairwell of WTC 7 after the latest edition of LC came out.

Why wouldn’t Gravy try to debunk Jennings. He did so well with Rodriguez.

ON what did you base your "thought"? Reading here? Dylan's already said that Jennings was getting so much negative attention that he asked that his interview be taken out of LCFC. So why would he have something more to say after the release? That's just silly.

As to whether one wants to believe Dylan's version (an AJs), that's your choice. Personally, I saw no indication that they had exclusive and extensive footage. It appears to me that the were hacking up the old material from Jennings and were gambling that they could get more.

[funk de fino]

I think the reason Jennings found the 23 floor abandoned is because they knew flight 175 was bearing down on NYC. The emergency command post abandoned the area because they knew another plane was heading their way. Jennings made few calls and went down the stairwell next to the service elevator on the south side of WTC 7. Flight 175 hit WTC 2 and seconds later a missile fired by one of the fighters hit WTC 7.


Do not lie again. You have no idea about fighters or missiles as you have proved previously. There was no missile and no fighters.

Try researching missiles and fighters first, then get the timeline straight, then stop posting rubbish claims.

[leftysergeant]

There were too many cameras pointed at the buildings for a missile to have gone un noticed. there are shots of something that looks like a missile, perhaps two, headed in the direction (roughly) of WTC 7, but it is verifiable by evidence found almost immediately afterwards that these were an engine and a wheel from the aircraft existing the impact arera in the same direction the plane was headed on impact. And there was no missile fired from the attacking aircraft. It would not have passed through the building.

[tj15]

Can someone point me to a site that debunks the Barry Jennings theory? Thanks.

[jhunter1163]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=85646

(insert obligatory comment about use of search function here)

[Brainster]

Barry's another victim of time compression, much like Norm Mineta. If you take his timeline and add another hour to it, everything makes sense. Otherwise his times conflict with just about everybody else--Peruggia, for instance.

[tj15]

Jennings said he saw both towers still standing after the explosion he experienced. Can someone clarify this?

[CurtC]

People are really bad at remembering the sequence of events they've experienced. That's a known fact. I find it more plausible that Barry thinks he remembers seeing the two towers after the explosion he heard, but instead saw it on his way up, than that everyone else had the story messed up.

[e^n]

Jennings said he saw both towers still standing after the explosion he experienced. Can someone clarify this?

Unless I have missed something, Dylan claims he saw this, but there has never been any statement, interview, audio etc associated with Barry Jennings that claims this. His timeline does not match up very well as we understand it and since he has apparently refused to appear in LC:FC it has become unexplainable.

[Foolmewunz]

Unless I have missed something, Dylan claims he saw this, but there has never been any statement, interview, audio etc associated with Barry Jennings that claims this. His timeline does not match up very well as we understand it and since he has apparently refused to appear in LC:FC it has become unexplainable.

'Cuz , ya know, he'd have blown the lid off of everything but The Man got to him.

:spjimlad::spjimlad:

(at least that's Dylan's version)

[tj15]

People are really bad at remembering the sequence of events they've experienced. That's a known fact. I find it more plausible that Barry thinks he remembers seeing the two towers after the explosion he heard, but instead saw it on his way up, than that everyone else had the story messed up.

That is a possibility. It just seems odd that he could misremember something like that.

[tj15]

Unless I have missed something, Dylan claims he saw this, but there has never been any statement, interview, audio etc associated with Barry Jennings that claims this. His timeline does not match up very well as we understand it and since he has apparently refused to appear in LC:FC it has become unexplainable.

I have heard the audio and he said that the towers were both still standing after the explosion he experienced. Does anyone know what Hess said about the whole incident (I think Hess was with Jennings the whole time)? Did Hess ever say that both of the towers were still standing after the explosion they experienced?

[SDC]

TJ15, I can't refer you anywhere special, but you ought to look into work on how people react to extraordinarily stressful situations; like battles, natural disasters, and the like. Even not-particularly-traumatic individual car accidents. The mind is not a pure recording device. This has come up from time to time on this site.

Heck, even less traumatic situations. Take my wedding...

[DGM]

I have heard the audio and he said that the towers were both still standing after the explosion he experienced. Does anyone know what Hess said about the whole incident (I think Hess was with Jennings the whole time)? Did Hess ever say that both of the towers were still standing after the explosion they experienced?
To the best of my knowledge Hess has not said anything of the kind.

The way I see it is Jennings looked out and saw the north tower and assumed the other was still there (there was lots of dust and smoke). Why would he (at the time) think differently? Now, years later this is how he remembers it.

[T.A.M.]

tj15, what do you think happened, based on Barry Jennings Testimony.

Thanks

TAM:)

[tj15]

To the best of my knowledge Hess has not said anything of the kind.

The way I see it is Jennings looked out and saw the north tower and assumed the other was still there (there was lots of dust and smoke). Why would he (at the time) think differently? Now, years later this is how he remembers it.

If there was a lot of dust and smoke, then he would not have seen the other tower. However he seems pretty confident that he saw both towers. I just don't get how he could miss something like that.

[tj15]

tj15, what do you think happened, based on Barry Jennings Testimony.

Thanks

TAM:)

I don't know what happened. I am trying to get as much information on this event as I can. I know I sound like a Truther, but I'm not. This is an argument they always give when I debate them. How could Barry Jennings have experienced an explosion and then see both towers still standing (this is what they ask me)?

Is it possible that debris from the airplane hit WTC 7 during one of the impacts of the towers?

[Brainster]

I don't know what happened. I am trying to get as much information on this event as I can. I know I sound like a Truther, but I'm not. This is an argument they always give when I debate them. How could Barry Jennings have experienced an explosion and then see both towers still standing (this is what they ask me)?

Is it possible that debris from the airplane hit WTC 7 during one of the impacts of the towers?

It is possible that minor debris hit the building, but nothing on the scale of what Jennings claims. What I would suggest is checking the oral histories of the firefighters and other first responders, particularly the ones who were in or around WTC-7. EMS Chief John Peruggia, EMT Richard Zarrillo, etc. Look for everybody else they mention and you'll start to get a feel for what was going on at the time. You'll see that there is no way what he says happened that early.

[tj15]

Does anyone know what Michael Hess has to say on this topic? Does he have the same story as Barry Jennings?

[T.A.M.]

I don't know what happened. I am trying to get as much information on this event as I can. I know I sound like a Truther, but I'm not. This is an argument they always give when I debate them. How could Barry Jennings have experienced an explosion and then see both towers still standing (this is what they ask me)?

Is it possible that debris from the airplane hit WTC 7 during one of the impacts of the towers?

Thats fine. When you have enough info, and come up with a position, I would love to hear it.

Keep educating yourself.

TAM:)

[tj15]

Thats fine. When you have enough info, and come up with a position, I would love to hear it.

Keep educating yourself.

TAM:)

From what I have seen, it could go one of two ways:

Either Barry Jennings witnessed an explosion before the towers collapsed or he is completely wrong about the times and places he was at.

Am I missing something here or are these the only possible scenarios?

[Brainster]

From what I have seen, it could go one of two ways:

Either Barry Jennings witnessed an explosion before the towers collapsed or he is completely wrong about the times and places he was at.

Am I missing something here or are these the only possible scenarios?

Yes, that seems to be a reasonable summary of the possibilities. Although you might want to phrase it a little stronger by pointing out that it's "Either Barry Jennings witnessed an explosion in WTC 7 before the towers collapsed or...."

Now dig a bit and you'll discover which it is. Oh, here's a great site (http://jay-911.blogspot.com/) for checking through the various testimonies of the first responders. I've found that the search function at the top left works best.

[LashL]

Jennings said he saw both towers still standing after the explosion he experienced.

Can you please provide the evidence upon which you base the above statement? That would be a useful starting point for further analysis and discussion.

As far as I know, Mr. Jennings' description of the explosion that he experienced occurred while he was in a stairwell, and he did not emerge from the stairwell until he was rescued (along with two other people) by emergency personnel. There are no windows in the stairwells, of course, and it is apparent from the photographs of him after his rescue that he was rescued post-collapse of the towers. So, it is difficult to understand how he could have "seen both towers still standing" from inside a stairwell in WTC7 and it also appears that the timing attributed to him is incorrect.

But, by all means, let's take a look at the evidence that you were referring to above (once you provide it) so that we can analyze it.

Can someone clarify this?

Perhaps. There have been threads on Mr. Jennings in the past, after all. But it makes most sense to first see the evidence upon which you have based your initial assertion above so that we are all on the same page and not talking at cross-purposes. Thanks in advance.

[e^n]

I have heard the audio and he said that the towers were both still standing after the explosion he experienced. Does anyone know what Hess said about the whole incident (I think Hess was with Jennings the whole time)? Did Hess ever say that both of the towers were still standing after the explosion they experienced?

I emailed Mike Hess and Mike Newman in an attempt to get more information about the interviews conducted. Never received a reply.

You say you have heard his account, could you provide more details? Last time I looked at the timeline he would have had a very very short period in order to experience this before a tower collapsed. The earliest that I am aware of that he could possibly have reached the OEM and found it empty is 9:30, with the latest being past 9:44. I can do the research into this again if you like but it's hard to know for sure whether he was simply mistaken.

[tj15]

Yes, that seems to be a reasonable summary of the possibilities. Although you might want to phrase it a little stronger by pointing out that it's "Either Barry Jennings witnessed an explosion in WTC 7 before the towers collapsed or...."

Now dig a bit and you'll discover which it is. Oh, here's a great site (http://jay-911.blogspot.com/) for checking through the various testimonies of the first responders. I've found that the search function at the top left works best.

OK. Thanks for the site.

[tj15]

Can you please provide the evidence upon which you base the above statement? That would be a useful starting point for further analysis and discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NttM3oUrNmE

I don't know if you accept this as evidence, but this is what I am shown when I debate Truthers.

As far as I know, Mr. Jennings' description of the explosion that he experienced occurred while he was in a stairwell, and he did not emerge from the stairwell until he was rescued (along with two other people) by emergency personnel. There are no windows in the stairwells, of course, and it is apparent from the photographs of him after his rescue that he was rescued post-collapse of the towers. So, it is difficult to understand how he could have "seen both towers still standing" from inside a stairwell in WTC7 and it also appears that the timing attributed to him is incorrect.

Apparently, the explosion occured on the sixth floor and he was forced up to the eighth floor. When he got to the eighth floor, he said he saw both towers still standing.

But, by all means, let's take a look at the evidence that you were referring to above (once you provide it) so that we can analyze it.

That link is what they (Truthers) show me.

Perhaps. There have been threads on Mr. Jennings in the past, after all. But it makes most sense to first see the evidence upon which you have based your initial assertion above so that we are all on the same page and not talking at cross-purposes. Thanks in advance.

I hope this helps.

[tj15]

I emailed Mike Hess and Mike Newman in an attempt to get more information about the interviews conducted. Never received a reply.

You say you have heard his account, could you provide more details? Last time I looked at the timeline he would have had a very very short period in order to experience this before a tower collapsed. The earliest that I am aware of that he could possibly have reached the OEM and found it empty is 9:30, with the latest being past 9:44. I can do the research into this again if you like but it's hard to know for sure whether he was simply mistaken.

Barry Jennings' timeline begins earlier than that (according to him). Apparently, the OEM was evacuated before the official time (9:30, I believe).

[e^n]

Barry Jennings' timeline begins earlier than that (according to him). Apparently, the OEM was evacuated before the official time (9:30, I believe).

I didn't hear anything to do with that, there were still reports of the OEM being evacuated at 9:44, that would leave 15 minutes before the building collapsed. The situation in the lobby is also adequately explained as the lobby was used as a triage area. There simply doesn't seem to be enough time. I wish I could find the threads on the old LC where I discussed this, but 15-29 minutes is not very much time for him to go up, down, up, down the building, then be rescued and escorted to the lobby

I love the rest of the stuff Alex Jones was saying though, I can look up and find out that WTC7 was a triage centre but according to him it means lots more people died in WTC7 and it was covered up. Occams razor has no place in his mind.

[tj15]

I didn't hear anything to do with that, there were still reports of the OEM being evacuated at 9:44, that would leave 15 minutes before the building collapsed. The situation in the lobby is also adequately explained as the lobby was used as a triage area. There simply doesn't seem to be enough time. I wish I could find the threads on the old LC where I discussed this, but 15-29 minutes is not very much time for him to go up, down, up, down the building, then be rescued and escorted to the lobby

I love the rest of the stuff Alex Jones was saying though, I can look up and find out that WTC7 was a triage centre but according to him it means lots more people died in WTC7 and it was covered up. Occams razor has no place in his mind.

Question: Where was Barry Jennings rescued from? The lobby or somewhere higher up?

[e^n]

Question: Where was Barry Jennings rescued from? The lobby or somewhere higher up?

To my understanding he was rescued from the 8th floor, brought down to the lobby and out of a makeshift hole by firefighters. Why he was not brought down to the lobby and taken through one of the many broken glass sections is unknown either.

[tj15]

To my understanding he was rescued from the 8th floor, brought down to the lobby and out of a makeshift hole by firefighters. Why he was not brought down to the lobby and taken through one of the many broken glass sections is unknown either.

OK.

If Barry Jennings went into WTC 7 in between the two airplane impacts (I believe this is what he claimed) and then went up to the OEM, and found no one there, then that would mean that the OEM was evacuated before the official time. And if he is correct, then that moves the time of the explosion to before the collapse of either tower.

The important question was whether Barry Jennings went into WTC 7 as early as he claims or not.

Do you know when Barry Jennings met up with Michael Hess?

[technoextreme]

PS Ever see any truthers in MA? I'm from MA also and can't find them.
They are around. I find their junky pamphlets lying around my student center from time to time in Boston. Someone has to be placing them there.

[MaGZ]

Can someone point me to a site that debunks the Barry Jennings theory? Thanks.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Barry_Jennings

[MaGZ]

Barry's another victim of time compression, much like Norm Mineta. If you take his timeline and add another hour to it, everything makes sense. Otherwise his times conflict with just about everybody else--Peruggia, for instance.

I think Jennings and Hess’ timeline needs to be examined. You are suggesting both were an hour late in reporting to the emergency command post on floor 23. This is very unlikely. I think both arrived before the second impact and tied to get up to the 23 floor via the usual elevators but could not and gained assistance to a service elevator to get to 23. They arrived and found the area abandoned; those in the command post knew the second plane was heading into the area and recently left. They made a few calls and were told to get out immediately. They left via the stairwell adjacent to the service elevator on the south side of WTC 7 and near the 6th floor experienced the explosion. This happened at 9:03.

[MaGZ]

Jennings said he saw both towers still standing after the explosion he experienced. Can someone clarify this?

Apparently Jennings and Hess were trapped in the stairwell on the 8th floor after the explosion blew away the lower floors. They saw the two towers standing from the stairwell window on the south side of WTC 7.

[MaGZ]

The Independent in Britian has a slightly different version of events for Jennings and Hess

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010913/ai_n14406465/print


Up in the command centre on the 23rd floor, two men felt the building rock with the second explosion. Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, had reported there after the initial blast. So had Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel. After the second plane hit they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Mr Jennings said


There is a bit of confusion in the reporting, but it does place Jennings and Hess in WTC 7 when the second plane hit WTC 2. So, their timeline is accurate.

[applecorped]

So?

[quicknthedead]

Tonight I did a little research and believe this is the answer to this Jennings-Hess mystery on WTC7.

The time when WTC7 lost power is also the time Mike Hess claims that he and Barry Jennings left the OEM on the 23rd floor and started down, where on the Eighth Floor they experienced that explosion. He says the time they started down was when the building lost power when they were on the 23rd Floor.

This can be heard in this short, 30 second video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ8PzzPLRJo

However, in FEMA's report on WTC7, on page 5-15, Con Ed reported WTC7 lost power at 9:59 (due to the collapse of WTC2):
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

Jennings apparently got flustered by the events, understandable under the circumstances.

He and Hess experienced the explosion when they got down to the 8th Floor (going down the stairwell due to the power being out), and this occurred after WTC2 had already fallen...and this explosion they experienced must have been very close to the time when WTC1 came down (going down from the 23rd to the 8th Floor would take some time).

Regardless, it happened after WTC2 fell.

This means Jennings could not possibly have seen both towers standing when he looked out after the "explosion" (especially through all the dust and smoke from the collapse).

He also showed his being flustered by the events when he stated this happened when they got down to the 6th Floor, but in the referenced interview above both he and Hess said it happened on the 8th Floor.

Little things can slip in the mind during a harrowing experience, and I believe this matter is closed to my satisfaction.

[tj15]

Tonight I did a little research and believe this is the answer to this Jennings-Hess mystery on WTC7.

The time when WTC7 lost power is also the time Mike Hess claims that he and Barry Jennings left the OEM on the 23rd floor and started down, where on the Eighth Floor they experienced that explosion. He says the time they started down was when the building lost power when they were on the 23rd Floor.

This can be heard in this short, 30 second video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ8PzzPLRJo

However, in FEMA's report on WTC7, on page 5-15, Con Ed reported WTC7 lost power at 9:59 (due to the collapse of WTC2):
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

Jennings apparently got flustered by the events, understandable under the circumstances.

He and Hess experienced the explosion when they got down to the 8th Floor (going down the stairwell due to the power being out), and this occurred after WTC2 had already fallen...and this explosion they experienced must have been very close to the time when WTC1 came down (going down from the 23rd to the 8th Floor would take some time).

Regardless, it happened after WTC2 fell.

This means Jennings could not possibly have seen both towers standing when he looked out after the "explosion" (especially through all the dust and smoke from the collapse).

He also showed his being flustered by the events when he stated this happened when they got down to the 6th Floor, but in the referenced interview above both he and Hess said it happened on the 8th Floor.

Little things can slip in the mind during a harrowing experience, and I believe this matter is closed to my satisfaction.

Good post. The thing about the power going out might explain why Barry Jennings' story (what he thinks happened) is wrong/mistaken. Is it possible though that the power went out only where they (Jennings and Hess) where at the time and that there wasn't a full power outage in WTC 7? Meaning the official time that Com Ed gave wouldn't give the correct time for when they left the OEM and started walking down the stairs. I'm just saying possibilities because I don't get how Barry Jennings could be wrong about seeing something as obvious as both towers still standing after the explosion he experienced (I'm not saying he couldn't be wrong). If one of the towers was blocked by the dust, wouldn't he be able to figure out that one of the towers had collapsed (at least after the fact and later that day when he put the pieces together)?

Also, was the explosion on the sixth floor or the eighth floor?

[tj15]

Is this an accurate summary of Barry Jennings' (what he thinks happened) timeline?

9:00 A.M.: Enters WTC7
about 9:05: Gets to 23rd floor
about 9:10: Goes back to the lobby
about 9:15: Gets back to the 23rd floor
about 9:25: Finishes phone calls and starts walking down the stairs
about 9:35: Experiences the explosion
about 9:40: Sees both towers still standing
just before 10:00: South tower collapses

[tj15]

Bump.

[LashL]

Is this an accurate summary of Barry Jennings' (what he thinks happened) timeline?

9:00 A.M.: Enters WTC7
about 9:05: Gets to 23rd floor
about 9:10: Goes back to the lobby
about 9:15: Gets back to the 23rd floor
about 9:25: Finishes phone calls and starts walking down the stairs
about 9:35: Experiences the explosion
about 9:40: Sees both towers still standing
just before 10:00: South tower collapses


I don't think that it is fair to ascribe to Mr. Jennings a timeline that he has never endorsed. It appears that he may have been taken in by and taken advantage of by tinhatters briefly (during his brief involvement with the Loose Change morons) but that he was also smart enough to tell them to screw off when it became apparent to him what they were trying to do, how they were trying to twist his words, and how they were trying to use him for their own misguided purposes.

In any event, that timeline is not (and cannot possibly be) accurate, whether Mr. Jennings "believes" it or not. It simply does not accord with verifiable facts and evidence to the contrary.

Traumatic events invariably result in inaccurate (even grossly inaccurate and downright wrong) accounts of events by some people, even though those people are giving their honest recollections of those events. Some people simply recollect things wrongly and erroneously manufacture stories that are not and cannot be true, despite their best intentions, and their honestly but erroneously held beliefs/recollections are simply wrong.

Honest but mistaken beliefs, in other words, which happen all the time.

Dishonesty and deliberate misleading also happens all the time, of course, but I am not prepared to shuffle Mr. Jennings' claims into that category just yet because, so far, his supposed assertions have only been presented by nutcase conspiracy fantasists who are noted for their fabrications, cherry picking, and otherwise unsupported BS.

If you really want to know what Mr. Jennings believes or what timeline he believes, the best way to do so would be to ask him.

[Blender Head]

I still don't see how his testimony/interviews regarding explosions is indicative of a controlled demolition of WTC 7 seven hours later.

[LashL]

I still don't see how his testimony/interviews regarding explosions is indicative of a controlled demolition of WTC 7 seven hours later.

You're quite right.

It isn't.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh!

[tj15]

In any event, that timeline is not (and cannot possibly be) accurate, whether Mr. Jennings "believes" it or not. It simply does not accord with verifiable facts and evidence to the contrary.

Which facts show that he is wrong?

[LashL]

Which facts show that he is wrong?

Please read my post again. You haven't yet established that Mr. Jennings even believes the things that you have ascribed to him, so it is somewhat premature to ask what he is "wrong" about.

One step at a time, padawan.

[tj15]

Please read my post again. You haven't yet established that Mr. Jennings even believes the things that you have ascribed to him, so it is somewhat premature to ask what he is "wrong" about.

One step at a time, padawan.

That's why I was asking if the timeline I made fits with what Barry jennings said. After listening to what he said, that is what I came up with. I just put his words into a timeline (or at least I attempted to based on what he said). What facts did I miss in developing the timeline?

[Brainster]

That's why I was asking if the timeline I made fits with what Barry jennings said. After listening to what he said, that is what I came up with. I just put his words into a timeline (or at least I attempted to based on what he said). What facts did I miss in developing the timeline?

Now put together a timeline based on what others have said; like I said earlier, Peruggia is an excellent place to start. Notice how the other timelines hang together well, while Jennings' does not jibe with anybody else. There were quite a few EMS people in and around WTC 7. Does it make sense that none of them would have heard an explosion at 9:30? In fact, the building was still being evacuated at that time, and there were still thousands of people making their way out of WTC 7 at that time. Now think about a hour later; is there something that could sound very much like an explosion? Yeah, the collapse of the North Tower happened about an hour later.

If you start with the assumption that Jennings is right, you will end up with the plane on the North side of the Citgo.

[tj15]

Now put together a timeline based on what others have said; like I said earlier, Peruggia is an excellent place to start. Notice how the other timelines hang together well, while Jennings' does not jibe with anybody else. There were quite a few EMS people in and around WTC 7. Does it make sense that none of them would have heard an explosion at 9:30? In fact, the building was still being evacuated at that time, and there were still thousands of people making their way out of WTC 7 at that time. Now think about a hour later; is there something that could sound very much like an explosion? Yeah, the collapse of the North Tower happened about an hour later.

If you start with the assumption that Jennings is right, you will end up with the plane on the North side of the Citgo.

Good point on the fact that no one else heard the explosion as early as Barry Jennings said it happened.

What did Peruggia say that makes Barry Jennings wrong? I have read some of Peruggia's quotes, but I haven't seen the ones you are referring to. Also, do you have any other witnesses that prove that Barry Jennings' story can't be true?

I'm sorry that I am asking a lot of questions. I am sort of new to the in depth research into 9/11.

[MaGZ]

Is this an accurate summary of Barry Jennings' (what he thinks happened) timeline?

9:00 A.M.: Enters WTC7
about 9:05: Gets to 23rd floor
about 9:10: Goes back to the lobby
about 9:15: Gets back to the 23rd floor
about 9:25: Finishes phone calls and starts walking down the stairs
about 9:35: Experiences the explosion
about 9:40: Sees both towers still standing
just before 10:00: South tower collapses

What is your reason for the explosion at 9:35 and why that time?

[Par]

What is your reason for the explosion at 9:35 and why that time?


Whether or not there was any such explosion is precisely the point at issue.

[Norseman]

Good point on the fact that no one else heard the explosion as early as Barry Jennings said it happened.

What did Peruggia say that makes Barry Jennings wrong? I have read some of Peruggia's quotes, but I haven't seen the ones you are referring to. Also, do you have any other witnesses that prove that Barry Jennings' story can't be true?

I'm sorry that I am asking a lot of questions. I am sort of new to the in depth research into 9/11.

Here are two stories you should read. The first is about Michael Catalano who was a chief engineer in WTC 7:
http://www.buildings.com/articles/detail.aspx?ContentID=925

Start at "Life Safety is No. 1".

The next is about elevator mechanics Joe Flanagan and Bob Klaum. Both were inside WTC 7 during the collapses of WTC 2 and WTC 1. The story starts with a short description of how they experienced the collapse of the last tower, WTC 1. Then it describes how they rescued people trapped inside elevators that stalled when the first tower collapsed, WTC 2:
http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/archive01/0112-005.html-ssi

Start at "New York Mechanics at Their Best During Tragedy".

These guys would have known if anything else happened in addition to the aircraft impacts and the tower collapses.

The fact is that Barry Jennings and Michael Hess arrived at the OEM Operations Center on the 23rd floor shortly before the collapse of WTC 2. What Jennings experienced was nothing else than effects of the collapse of WTC 2 and then WTC 1.

Hopefully this will help you.

[tj15]

So, basically, Barry Jennings was mistaken when he said he saw both towers still standing. Maybe he saw one tower and assumed that the other tower was still there. Either way, the explosion he experienced had to have been from the collapse of the South tower in order for him to have seen at least one of the towers still standing after the explosion and mistaked it for both of them.

Or his interview was taken out of context and what he meant by seeing both towers was that he saw both towers just before he went down the stairs and experienced the explosion.

[quicknthedead]

The following probably explains this Jennings-Hess mystery on WTC7.

The time when WTC7 lost power is also the time Mike Hess claims that he and Barry Jennings left the OEM on the 23rd floor and started down, where on the Eighth Floor they experienced that explosion. He says the time they started down was when the building lost power when they were on the 23rd Floor.

This can be heard in this short, 30 second video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ8PzzPLRJo

However, in FEMA's report on WTC7, on page 5-15, Con Ed reported WTC7 lost power at 9:59 (due to the collapse of WTC2):
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

Jennings apparently got flustered by the events, understandable under the circumstances.

He and Hess experienced the explosion when they got down to the 8th Floor (going down the stairwell due to the power being out), and this was after WTC2 had already fallen. This explosion they experienced must have been very close to the time when WTC1 came down (going down from the 23rd to the 8th Floor would take some time).

Regardless, it happened after WTC2 fell.

This means Jennings could not have seen both towers standing when he looked out after the "explosion", especially through all the dust and smoke from the collapse.

He also showed being flustered by the events when he has stated elsewhere that this happened when they got down to the 6th Floor, but in the referenced interview above both he and Hess said it happened on the 8th Floor.

Little things can slip in the mind during a harrowing experience.

Any thoughts?

[tj15]

The following probably explains this Jennings-Hess mystery on WTC7.

The time when WTC7 lost power is also the time Mike Hess claims that he and Barry Jennings left the OEM on the 23rd floor and started down, where on the Eighth Floor they experienced that explosion. He says the time they started down was when the building lost power when they were on the 23rd Floor.

This can be heard in this short, 30 second video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ8PzzPLRJo

However, in FEMA's report on WTC7, on page 5-15, Con Ed reported WTC7 lost power at 9:59 (due to the collapse of WTC2):
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

Jennings apparently got flustered by the events, understandable under the circumstances.

He and Hess experienced the explosion when they got down to the 8th Floor (going down the stairwell due to the power being out), and this was after WTC2 had already fallen. This explosion they experienced must have been very close to the time when WTC1 came down (going down from the 23rd to the 8th Floor would take some time).

Regardless, it happened after WTC2 fell.

This means Jennings could not have seen both towers standing when he looked out after the "explosion", especially through all the dust and smoke from the collapse.

He also showed being flustered by the events when he has stated elsewhere that this happened when they got down to the 6th Floor, but in the referenced interview above both he and Hess said it happened on the 8th Floor.

Little things can slip in the mind during a harrowing experience.

Any thoughts?

That sounds accurate to me.

[MaGZ]

So, basically, Barry Jennings was mistaken when he said he saw both towers still standing. Maybe he saw one tower and assumed that the other tower was still there. Either way, the explosion he experienced had to have been from the collapse of the South tower in order for him to have seen at least one of the towers still standing after the explosion and mistaked it for both of them.

Or his interview was taken out of context and what he meant by seeing both towers was that he saw both towers just before he went down the stairs and experienced the explosion.

The problem with that is WTC 2, when it collapsed around (10:00am), was too far away to damage WTC7 and destroy two level of flight stairs from under the feet of Jennings and Hess.

[MaGZ]

Here are two stories you should read. The first is about Michael Catalano who was a chief engineer in WTC 7:
http://www.buildings.com/articles/detail.aspx?ContentID=925

Start at "Life Safety is No. 1".

The next is about elevator mechanics Joe Flanagan and Bob Klaum. Both were inside WTC 7 during the collapses of WTC 2 and WTC 1. The story starts with a short description of how they experienced the collapse of the last tower, WTC 1. Then it describes how they rescued people trapped inside elevators that stalled when the first tower collapsed, WTC 2:
http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/archive01/0112-005.html-ssi

Start at "New York Mechanics at Their Best During Tragedy".

These guys would have known if anything else happened in addition to the aircraft impacts and the tower collapses.

The fact is that Barry Jennings and Michael Hess arrived at the OEM Operations Center on the 23rd floor shortly before the collapse of WTC 2. What Jennings experienced was nothing else than effects of the collapse of WTC 2 and then WTC 1.

Hopefully this will help you.

Michael Catalano’s story actually supports the missile theory as the explanation for the explosion Jennings and Hess experienced at 9:03. When the first plane hit WTC 1 Catalano felt the building WTC 7 shake. Catalano and his group were on a windowless 48th floor of WTC 7 and did not know at the time a plane crashed into WTC 1 on the north side of the tower.

Then Catalano says, "The second plane hit and they were thrown to the ground". So how could they be thrown to the ground when the second plane hit WTC 2 when it was further away than WTC 1?

The answer: they were thrown to the ground when the missile hit WTC 7 seconds later after WTC 2 was hit by the hijacked plane.

[funk de fino]

There was no missile

[Norseman]

Here is another witness account from inside WTC 7 that can help you to get a feel of what was going on inside WTC 7 tj15. This is by a firefighter who were attached to the OEM staff on the 23rd floor. He was down in the cafeteria on the third floor eating breakfast when the first plane struck. He went back up in the OEM to check that the OEM communications were properly supervised. Satisfied that so was the case he went over to WTC 1:

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/sept11_fdny_transcripts/9110458.PDF

[Alferd_Packer]

I once read an article about one of the stationary engineers in WTC 7 who was was also one of the last people (besides the three stooges) to leave the building.

Unfortunately I lost the link to it.

[Norseman]

I once read an article about one of the stationary engineers in WTC 7 who was was also one of the last people (besides the three stooges) to leave the building.

Unfortunately I lost the link to it.

Could you be thinking of the first article I linked up in post #103? Unless you read that post of course.

[Alferd_Packer]

Could you be thinking of the first article I linked up in post #103? Unless you read that post of course.

No, this was one of the maintenance engineers. He was up near or on the roof when he started to evacuate the building, checking the floors as he went down.

He even unplugged coffee makers that had been left on, so this was before the power to the building was cut.

[Norseman]

No, this was one of the maintenance engineers. He was up near or on the roof when he started to evacuate the building, checking the floors as he went down.

He even unplugged coffee makers that had been left on, so this was before the power to the building was cut.

He is at the least mentioned in the story:
Assistant Engineer Joe Gregori, who had worked in 7 WTC for 11 years, even took the time to unplug coffee pots while heroically checking for building occupants left behind after the evacuation.
Source: First On the Scene: 2 of 3
(http://www.buildings.com/articles/detail.aspx?ContentID=925)

But a search for Joe Gregori didn't turn up any other stories. That would have been yet another story to confront Galileo with, though I doubt it would help.

[Kent1]

From the new WTC7 leaked report.
This open window is also visible in Figure 1-26
It is believed that this window was broken out by people who were trapped on this floor when WTC 1 collapsed. Video clips made available to the Investigation show one of these people inside an open window 8-42A on the eastern edge of the north face. Another of these people was interviewed later in the afternoon by a news person and described yelling out of open windows. Investigation team members interviewed these people and they described breaking out windows on the 8th floor.

I suspect the debate on Barry's tale won't last much longer.

[leftysergeant]

Find any video of Peter Jennings' live coverage of the collapse. He is discussing the grounding of aircraft as the south tower collapses. When it comes to his attention, some five seconds after the collapse had finished, his first reaction is "What are we looking at here?" He could not tell. from his vantage point well above the horizon, that the tower was gone. It is quite likely, therefore, that Jennings, from a far lower vantage point, would have seen the nearer tower, and a greyish structure behind it and assumed that it was the south tower still standing. Since it would not have occurred to him the the tower had collapsed for some 20 to 60 minutes later, he would most likely remember it as the south tower still standing.

[Galileo]

Norseman, here has found some evidence to help support Barry Jennings:

http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showpost.php?p=3820617&postcount=225

First of all, Barry Jennings says he was on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.

According to the testimony of Zarrillo, Nahmod, and Yakimovich, all three of these people had not even gotten to WTC 7 by the time the 2nd plane hit. They were still in route. So that means by the time they got up to the 23rd floor, Jennings and Hess were already gone down the stairwell.

Hess and Jennings made phone calls while on the 23rd floor. Hess was freaking out and trying to get ahold of Ghouliani. Someone close to Ghouliani told Hess to get out of there, which fits in with Ghouliani's behaviour, as Ghouliani never made any attempt to get to WTC 7. Hess and Jennings evidently got a warning to leave before the fireman did, because the firemen had no direct contact with Ghouliani's staff.

Zarrillo says he went down the stairwell later. Since Jennings went down the east stairwell, and there had been an explosion that destroyed the landing, Zarrillo went down the west stairwell.

Peruggia, before the 2nd plane hit, said he talked to someone who said they had been told the OEC was "operational", prior to the 2nd plane hit.

This means that if the OEC were "operational", then it was in error, or someone else had gone there and started things up, turned the lights or computers on, or whatever it means to make the OEC "operational".

If this is what happened, whoever did this was not there when Jennings & Hess arrived at about 9:03, or if they were, they were out of sight of Jennings and Hess. The OEC is the size of a football field. More likely, whoever turned on the lights and whatever, went down to the lobby to meet people he was expecting for help, like Zarrillo, Nahmod, Peruggia, and Yakimovich, and left their coffee and sandwiches in the OEC.

Because the 2nd plane hit caused a power irregularity, Jennings and Hess went down the east stairwell, were they were almost killed by a bomb on the 6th floor. Then they went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows. They saw the Twin Towers standing and flagged down a fireman. The firemen were coming to help when WTC 2 fell, and Jennings saw the firemen run for cover. Then the firemen came back, but had to run again when WTC 2 fell. Finally, the fireman came back again and rescued Jennings and Hess at around 11 AM. Jennings and Hess went down to the street, and did a TV interview at 11:34 about a half mile from WTC 7.

The bomb at the 6th floor started a fire in WTC 7, which could later be seen out the window of the 7th floor on the north face, east end.

This exploision was one of the initial blasts that were later used to blow up WTC 7, by taking out core columns 76, 77, 79, or 80.

These explosions left hotspots of over 1000 degress five days after 9/11, near the explosion.

The east stairwell was in a protected area on the north edge of the WTC 7, far away from debris from WTC 1, and protected from debris by core columns #74 and #75. According to NIST, there was no debris damage in the east stairwell.

Its also important to note that virtually every witness on 9/11, and I have read through statements by hundreds of people, frame their narrative around the two plane hits and the two building collapses. Almost every single person uses these guideposts to pin down and give accurate timelines. Jennings is no different than hundreds of brave first responders in that he gives accurate testimony, framed around the significant events of that day. The only difference for Jennings is that he had a 5th important event, the exploision which almost killed him, which he also uses to frame the timeline of his testimony, and ensure its accuracy.

Jennigs said he told NIST the same thing he told Dylan Avery. We need to get the recording of Jennings interview with NIST. Jennings and Hess both said it was an explosion, NIST's thirdhand report says dust and debris settled into the stairwell. The NIST lies have been exposed.

Finally, the fire alram in WTC 7 was turned off at 6:47 AM. If it hadn't, the explosion in the east stariwell would have been reported immediately, rather than almost forgotten. Thanks to 9/11 hero and first responder Barry Jennings, that bomb will not be forgotten, and whoever set it, may one day be brought to justice.

[MaGZ]

Norseman, here has found some evidence to help support Barry Jennings:

http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showpost.php?p=3820617&postcount=225

First of all, Barry Jennings says he was on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.

According to the testimony of Zarrillo, Nahmod, and Yakimovich, all three of these people had not even gotten to WTC 7 by the time the 2nd plane hit. They were still in route. So that means by the time they got up to the 23rd floor, Jennings and Hess were already gone down the stairwell.

Hess and Jennings made phone calls while on the 23rd floor. Hess was freaking out and trying to get ahold of Ghouliani. Someone close to Ghouliani told Hess to get out of there, which fits in with Ghouliani's behaviour, as Ghouliani never made any attempt to get to WTC 7. Hess and Jennings evidently got a warning to leave before the fireman did, because the firemen had no direct contact with Ghouliani's staff.

Zarrillo says he went down the stairwell later. Since Jennings went down the east stairwell, and there had been an explosion that destroyed the landing, Zarrillo went down the west stairwell.

Peruggia, before the 2nd plane hit, said he talked to someone who said they had been told the OEC was "operational", prior to the 2nd plane hit.

This means that if the OEC were "operational", then it was in error, or someone else had gone there and started things up, turned the lights or computers on, or whatever it means to make the OEC "operational".

If this is what happened, whoever did this was not there when Jennings & Hess arrived at about 9:03, or if they were, they were out of sight of Jennings and Hess. The OEC is the size of a football field. More likely, whoever turned on the lights and whatever, went down to the lobby to meet people he was expecting for help, like Zarrillo, Nahmod, Peruggia, and Yakimovich, and left their coffee and sandwiches in the OEC.

Because the 2nd plane hit caused a power irregularity, Jennings and Hess went down the east stairwell, were they were almost killed by a bomb on the 6th floor. Then they went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows. They saw the Twin Towers standing and flagged down a fireman. The firemen were coming to help when WTC 2 fell, and Jennings saw the firemen run for cover. Then the firemen came back, but had to run again when WTC 2 fell. Finally, the fireman came back again and rescued Jennings and Hess at around 11 AM. Jennings and Hess went down to the street, and did a TV interview at 11:34 about a half mile from WTC 7.

The bomb at the 6th floor started a fire in WTC 7, which could later be seen out the window of the 7th floor on the north face, east end.

This exploision was one of the initial blasts that were later used to blow up WTC 7, by taking out core columns 76, 77, 79, or 80.

These explosions left hotspots of over 1000 degress five days after 9/11, near the explosion.

The east stairwell was in a protected area on the north edge of the WTC 7, far away from debris from WTC 1, and protected from debris by core columns #74 and #75. According to NIST, there was no debris damage in the east stairwell.

Its also important to note that virtually every witness on 9/11, and I have read through statements by hundreds of people, frame their narrative around the two plane hits and the two building collapses. Almost every single person uses these guideposts to pin down and give accurate timelines. Jennings is no different than hundreds of brave first responders in that he gives accurate testimony, framed around the significant events of that day. The only difference for Jennings is that he had a 5th important event, the exploision which almost killed him, which he also uses to frame the timeline of his testimony, and ensure its accuracy.

Jennigs said he told NIST the same thing he told Dylan Avery. We need to get the recording of Jennings interview with NIST. Jennings and Hess both said it was an explosion, NIST's thirdhand report says dust and debris settled into the stairwell. The NIST lies have been exposed.

Finally, the fire alram in WTC 7 was turned off at 6:47 AM. If it hadn't, the explosion in the east stariwell would have been reported immediately, rather than almost forgotten. Thanks to 9/11 hero and first responder Barry Jennings, that bomb will not be forgotten, and whoever set it, may one day be brought to justice.

You placed Jennings and Hess in a northeast stairwelll of WTC 7. They could not have seen the Twin Towers from this vantage.

The explosion was not a bomb.

[Norseman]

Norseman, here has found some evidence to help support Barry Jennings:

http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showpost.php?p=3820617&postcount=225


Quiet the contrary Galileo, every rationale and honest person reading through the interviews I linked will understand that your post is a piece of fiction. Once again Galileo, Nahmod and Zarrillo responded together from Brooklyn after the first plane hit. While driving over the Brooklyn Bridge they saw the second plane hit. In other words they entered the OEM several minutes after the second plane had hit.

The OEM was staffed 24/7:
The OEM Watch Command, which was located at the OEM Offices in 7 World Trade Center, acted as the eyes and ears of the City. Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, it monitored all emergency services frequencies, New York State and National alert systems, weather systems, and local, national and international news. In the event of an emergency or
serious incident, the Watch Command would dispatch the appropriate OEM responders and
notify the senior OEM staff.
Source: RICHARD J. SHEIRER (http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing11/sheirer_statement.pdf)

But to handle a full scale emergency the OEM needed be staffed with additional personnel:
Activating the EOC involved notifying all the appropriate City agencies, and requesting the agencies send their designated representative to the EOC. For an emergency of this scale, almost all areas of City Government along with State, Federal, Voluntary Service and Private
Sector organizations would be involved.
Source: RICHARD J. SHEIRER (http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing11/sheirer_statement.pdf)

This interview with firefighter Timothy Brown (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110458.PDF) confirms that the OEM was manned before the first plane hit in accordance with its daily function as described by Sheirer. Timothy Brown was attached to the OEM staff on the 23rd floor. He was down in the cafeteria on the third floor eating breakfast when the first plane struck. He went back up in the OEM to check that the OEM communications were properly supervised. Satisfied that so was the case he went over to WTC 1.

After the first plane they activated the EOC in the OEM and called in the additional personnel required to man it. Among these were Nahmod and Zarrillo who arrived in the OEM well after the second plane had hit. The OEM was evacuated because of a report of a possible third plane heading for New York. This occurred around 09:30. Jennings timeline is wrong. He arrived with Hess in the OEM after the evacuation and some time before the collapse of WTC 2. They were trapped on the 8th floor by the collapse of WTC 1. End of story.

[~enigma~]

Quiet the contrary Galileo, every rationale and honest person reading through the interviews I linked will understand that your post is a piece of fiction. Once again Galileo, Nahmod and Zarrillo responded together from Brooklyn after the first plane hit. While driving over the Brooklyn Bridge they saw the second plane hit. In other words they entered the OEM several minutes after the second plane had hit.

The OEM is staffed 24/7:

Source: RICHARD J. SHEIRER (http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing11/sheirer_statement.pdf)

But to handle a full scale emergency the OEM needed be staffed with additional personnel:

Source: RICHARD J. SHEIRER (http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing11/sheirer_statement.pdf)

This interview with firefighter Timothy Brown (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110458.PDF) confirms that the OEM was manned before the first plane hit in accordance with its daily function as described by Sheirer. Timothy Brown was attached to the OEM staff on the 23rd floor. He was down in the cafeteria on the third floor eating breakfast when the first plane struck. He went back up in the OEM to check that the OEM communications were properly supervised. Satisfied that so was the case he went over to WTC 1.

After the first plane they activated the EOC in the OEM and called in the additional personnel required to man it. Among these were Nahmod and Zarrillo who arrived in the OEM well after the second plane had hit. The OEM was evacuated because of a report of a possible third plane heading for New York. This occurred around 09:30. Jennings timeline is wrong. He arrived with Hess in the OEM after the evacuation and some time before the collapse of WTC 2. They were trapped on the 8th floor by the collapse of WTC 1. End of story.He is aware but he saw his guru/god uncle fester try the same tactic so he figured he would do it. All I can say is they are showing that they (truth movement) are no more than trained dogs.

SPIN UBU SPIN

[Galileo]

You placed Jennings and Hess in a northeast stairwelll of WTC 7. They could not have seen the Twin Towers from this vantage.

The explosion was not a bomb.

What are you talking about?

Jennings never said he saw the Twin Towers from the stairwell. He said he went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows. If he had stayed in the stairwell, the firemen would never have seen him.

[Galileo]

from another thread, MaGZ has asked this question:

"Could you please show me where you think Jennings and Hess were in you timeline when these events happened?
1) the second plane hit WTC 2
2) the collapse of WTC 2
3) the collapse of WTC 1
Also, when do you think they were rescued by the Fire Dept.?"
http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showpost.php?p=3823618&postcount=267

From listening to what Barry says, this is easy:

1) he was near WTC 7 when the first plane hit, and was inside before the 2nd plane hit.

2) he was on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.

3) he was on the 8th floor trying to flag down firemen when WTC2 fell.

4) same as 3)

WTC1 fell at 10:28, and Jennings did an interview at 11:34 a half mile from WTC 7 (some claim this was at 11:59).

The rescue would have taken some time, but was likely going on about halfway between these two events, so around 11 or 11:15.

[boloboffin]

How did he see the towers from the north?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g171/boloboffin2/911/JenningsWindow.jpg

[Galileo]

How did he see the towers from the north?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g171/boloboffin2/911/JenningsWindow.jpg

Easy, he saw them from the other side of the building. They walked around on the 8th floor, before going to the north side where there was less smoke. That's where they saw the firemen run from the collapsing towers.

Jennings never he said he saw the towers fall, only that he saw the towers "still standing", and then later saw the firemen running.

That's all you got?

[Galileo]

How did he see the towers from the north?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g171/boloboffin2/911/JenningsWindow.jpg

PS

your photos show the fire started by the explosion described by Hess and Jennings.

If anyone was wondering how debris hitting the SW and south side of WTC 7 started a fire on the NE and north side, now ya know. It didn't.

[Galileo]

Norseman, here has found some evidence to help support Barry Jennings:

http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showpost.php?p=3820617&postcount=225

First of all, Barry Jennings says he was on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.

According to the testimony of Zarrillo, Nahmod, and Yakimovich, all three of these people had not even gotten to WTC 7 by the time the 2nd plane hit. They were still in route. So that means by the time they got up to the 23rd floor, Jennings and Hess were already gone down the stairwell.

Hess and Jennings made phone calls while on the 23rd floor. Hess was freaking out and trying to get ahold of Ghouliani. Someone close to Ghouliani told Hess to get out of there, which fits in with Ghouliani's behaviour, as Ghouliani never made any attempt to get to WTC 7. Hess and Jennings evidently got a warning to leave before the fireman did, because the firemen had no direct contact with Ghouliani's staff.

Zarrillo says he went down the stairwell later. Since Jennings went down the east stairwell, and there had been an explosion that destroyed the landing, Zarrillo went down the west stairwell.

Peruggia, before the 2nd plane hit, said he talked to someone who said they had been told the OEC was "operational", prior to the 2nd plane hit.

This means that if the OEC were "operational", then it was in error, or someone else had gone there and started things up, turned the lights or computers on, or whatever it means to make the OEC "operational".

If this is what happened, whoever did this was not there when Jennings & Hess arrived at about 9:03, or if they were, they were out of sight of Jennings and Hess. The OEC is the size of a football field. More likely, whoever turned on the lights and whatever, went down to the lobby to meet people he was expecting for help, like Zarrillo, Nahmod, Peruggia, and Yakimovich, and left their coffee and sandwiches in the OEC.

Because the 2nd plane hit caused a power irregularity, Jennings and Hess went down the east stairwell, were they were almost killed by a bomb on the 6th floor. Then they went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows. They saw the Twin Towers standing and flagged down a fireman. The firemen were coming to help when WTC 2 fell, and Jennings saw the firemen run for cover. Then the firemen came back, but had to run again when WTC 2 fell. Finally, the fireman came back again and rescued Jennings and Hess at around 11 AM. Jennings and Hess went down to the street, and did a TV interview at 11:34 about a half mile from WTC 7.

The bomb at the 6th floor started a fire in WTC 7, which could later be seen out the window of the 7th floor on the north face, east end.

This exploision was one of the initial blasts that were later used to blow up WTC 7, by taking out core columns 76, 77, 79, or 80.

These explosions left hotspots of over 1000 degress five days after 9/11, near the explosion.

The east stairwell was in a protected area on the north edge of the WTC 7, far away from debris from WTC 1, and protected from debris by core columns #74 and #75. According to NIST, there was no debris damage in the east stairwell.

Its also important to note that virtually every witness on 9/11, and I have read through statements by hundreds of people, frame their narrative around the two plane hits and the two building collapses. Almost every single person uses these guideposts to pin down and give accurate timelines. Jennings is no different than hundreds of brave first responders in that he gives accurate testimony, framed around the significant events of that day. The only difference for Jennings is that he had a 5th important event, the exploision which almost killed him, which he also uses to frame the timeline of his testimony, and ensure its accuracy.

Jennigs said he told NIST the same thing he told Dylan Avery. We need to get the recording of Jennings interview with NIST. Jennings and Hess both said it was an explosion, NIST's thirdhand report says dust and debris settled into the stairwell. The NIST lies have been exposed.

Finally, the fire alram in WTC 7 was turned off at 6:47 AM. If it hadn't, the explosion in the east stariwell would have been reported immediately, rather than almost forgotten. Thanks to 9/11 hero and first responder Barry Jennings, that bomb will not be forgotten, and whoever set it, may one day be brought to justice.

The silence is deafening. Not one good debunking point in several hours. My reasoning is air-tight. The psuedo-lions & tigers jump out for the easy prey, but when GALILEO SPEAKS, the rats scurry into their little corners. I can only imagine 1000 debunkers, twisting and concocting, in an attempt to refute the mighty GALILEO! YOU ARE VANQUISHED YE ALL!!!

:cool:

[MaGZ]

What are you talking about?

Jennings never said he saw the Twin Towers from the stairwell. He said he went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows. If he had stayed in the stairwell, the firemen would never have seen him.

It is my understanding that Jennings and Hess were trapped in the stairwell and broke a window for attention to be rescued. If they could roam the 8th floor of WTC 7 then why could they not find another exit from the building?

[Galileo]

It is my understanding that Jennings and Hess were trapped in the stairwell and broke a window for attention to be rescued. If they could roam the 8th floor of WTC 7 then why could they not find another exit from the building?

There were only two stairwells in WTC 7. The other one was way over on the other side of the building, they probably didn't know where it was.

I'm waiting for the alleged army of JREF archie debunkers to procure a witness who was on the 23rd floor at 9:03, now getting close to 24 hours since my request.

[Galileo]

Norseman, here has found some evidence to help support Barry Jennings:

http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showpost.php?p=3820617&postcount=225

First of all, Barry Jennings says he was on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.

According to the testimony of Zarrillo, Nahmod, and Yakimovich, all three of these people had not even gotten to WTC 7 by the time the 2nd plane hit. They were still in route. So that means by the time they got up to the 23rd floor, Jennings and Hess were already gone down the stairwell.

Hess and Jennings made phone calls while on the 23rd floor. Hess was freaking out and trying to get ahold of Ghouliani. Someone close to Ghouliani told Hess to get out of there, which fits in with Ghouliani's behaviour, as Ghouliani never made any attempt to get to WTC 7. Hess and Jennings evidently got a warning to leave before the fireman did, because the firemen had no direct contact with Ghouliani's staff.

Zarrillo says he went down the stairwell later. Since Jennings went down the east stairwell, and there had been an explosion that destroyed the landing, Zarrillo went down the west stairwell.

Peruggia, before the 2nd plane hit, said he talked to someone who said they had been told the OEC was "operational", prior to the 2nd plane hit.

This means that if the OEC were "operational", then it was in error, or someone else had gone there and started things up, turned the lights or computers on, or whatever it means to make the OEC "operational".

If this is what happened, whoever did this was not there when Jennings & Hess arrived at about 9:03, or if they were, they were out of sight of Jennings and Hess. The OEC is the size of a football field. More likely, whoever turned on the lights and whatever, went down to the lobby to meet people he was expecting for help, like Zarrillo, Nahmod, Peruggia, and Yakimovich, and left their coffee and sandwiches in the OEC.

Because the 2nd plane hit caused a power irregularity, Jennings and Hess went down the east stairwell, were they were almost killed by a bomb on the 6th floor. Then they went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows. They saw the Twin Towers standing and flagged down a fireman. The firemen were coming to help when WTC 2 fell, and Jennings saw the firemen run for cover. Then the firemen came back, but had to run again when WTC 2 fell. Finally, the fireman came back again and rescued Jennings and Hess at around 11 AM. Jennings and Hess went down to the street, and did a TV interview at 11:34 about a half mile from WTC 7.

The bomb at the 6th floor started a fire in WTC 7, which could later be seen out the window of the 7th floor on the north face, east end.

This exploision was one of the initial blasts that were later used to blow up WTC 7, by taking out core columns 76, 77, 79, or 80.

These explosions left hotspots of over 1000 degress five days after 9/11, near the explosion.

The east stairwell was in a protected area on the north edge of the WTC 7, far away from debris from WTC 1, and protected from debris by core columns #74 and #75. According to NIST, there was no debris damage in the east stairwell.

Its also important to note that virtually every witness on 9/11, and I have read through statements by hundreds of people, frame their narrative around the two plane hits and the two building collapses. Almost every single person uses these guideposts to pin down and give accurate timelines. Jennings is no different than hundreds of brave first responders in that he gives accurate testimony, framed around the significant events of that day. The only difference for Jennings is that he had a 5th important event, the exploision which almost killed him, which he also uses to frame the timeline of his testimony, and ensure its accuracy.

Jennigs said he told NIST the same thing he told Dylan Avery. We need to get the recording of Jennings interview with NIST. Jennings and Hess both said it was an explosion, NIST's thirdhand report says dust and debris settled into the stairwell. The NIST lies have been exposed.

Finally, the fire alram in WTC 7 was turned off at 6:47 AM. If it hadn't, the explosion in the east stariwell would have been reported immediately, rather than almost forgotten. Thanks to 9/11 hero and first responder Barry Jennings, that bomb will not be forgotten, and whoever set it, may one day be brought to justice.

Over 24 hours and no response. This place sure clams up when they're on the wrong side of the facts. I will take this as a confirmation that Barry Jennings timeline is correct, and pass the information on to the 9/11 Truth movement.

btw

Someone claimed that some mechanics in WTC 7 contradicted Jennings, but I checked that out, and they never went to the 23rd floor, so what they say is irrelevant.

[Oxigen]

Galileo,
Apologies, I haven't read the entire thread and this may have been brought up already, but does anyone have the exact time of Michael Hess's audio interview. This little snippet appears to have disappeared from the internet recently and I think it is important in determining the timeline of events. By the way, the silence is deafening.:)

[Galileo]

Galileo,
Apologies, I haven't read the entire thread and this may have been brought up already, but does anyone have the exact time of Michael Hess's audio interview. This little snippet appears to have disappeared from the internet recently and I think it is important in determining the timeline of events. By the way, the silence is deafening.:)

The time of the interview is not as important as the fact that Jennings and Hess were on the 23rd floor at 9:03. The interview was at 11:34. Some claim it was at 11:59.

[Galileo]

Day # 3.

Still no intelligent response to the Barry Jennings timeline. Give up, go home, and sulk, is the new motto of the JREF conspiracy forum.

[Oxigen]

Bump!

[johnny karate]

You two geniuses must have missed this:

Quiet the contrary Galileo, every rationale and honest person reading through the interviews I linked will understand that your post is a piece of fiction. Once again Galileo, Nahmod and Zarrillo responded together from Brooklyn after the first plane hit. While driving over the Brooklyn Bridge they saw the second plane hit. In other words they entered the OEM several minutes after the second plane had hit.

The OEM was staffed 24/7:

Source: RICHARD J. SHEIRER (http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing11/sheirer_statement.pdf)

But to handle a full scale emergency the OEM needed be staffed with additional personnel:

Source: RICHARD J. SHEIRER (http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing11/sheirer_statement.pdf)

This interview with firefighter Timothy Brown (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110458.PDF) confirms that the OEM was manned before the first plane hit in accordance with its daily function as described by Sheirer. Timothy Brown was attached to the OEM staff on the 23rd floor. He was down in the cafeteria on the third floor eating breakfast when the first plane struck. He went back up in the OEM to check that the OEM communications were properly supervised. Satisfied that so was the case he went over to WTC 1.

After the first plane they activated the EOC in the OEM and called in the additional personnel required to man it. Among these were Nahmod and Zarrillo who arrived in the OEM well after the second plane had hit. The OEM was evacuated because of a report of a possible third plane heading for New York. This occurred around 09:30. Jennings timeline is wrong. He arrived with Hess in the OEM after the evacuation and some time before the collapse of WTC 2. They were trapped on the 8th floor by the collapse of WTC 1. End of story.

It was posted three hours after Galileo's original post, and well before Galileo's multiple and erroneous claims that no one had responded to that post. I can certainly understand how Galileo could have missed it, busy as he is dodging other threads (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3824412#post3824412) where's he's been cornered.

[Dog Town]

Day # 3.

Still no intelligent response to the Barry Jennings timeline.

Yes, you have yet to give an intelligent response. You have seen your BS obliterated, by Norseman and others. All the while claiming "victory", where you have none! Funny, your pal bumped it, showing how bad you FAILED!



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)

[~enigma~]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_13257486d61ea0309b.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=12854)

[MaGZ]

The time of the interview is not as important as the fact that Jennings and Hess were on the 23rd floor at 9:03. The interview was at 11:34. Some claim it was at 11:59.

You can only say they was there around 9:03. Jennings and Hess did not react to the crash of the second plane because they were experiencing the explosion at 9:03 in the stairwell when the plane hit WTC 2. I think the were on the 23rd floor about 9:00.

[boloboffin]

Sam Caspersen is another name for the list. He was called into the OEM as part of "20 predesignated representatives of different agencies." That means he was called about the same time as Barry Jennings. Caspersen was en route to the center when is was evacuated at 9:30 am.

He also went over records of the OEM's actions. Besides calling in these agencies, the OEM was also contacted area hospitals to make sure they were aware and getting prepared for what was expected to be hundreds or thousands of victims. After the second plane hit the South Tower, they were also in contact with federal authorities to try and get air coverage over the city.

Caspersen gave a long interview to the authors of "Grand Illusion." He asked to go over the transcript and gave them eight pages of notes with supplemental information and corrections.

[Galileo]

You two geniuses must have missed this:



It was posted three hours after Galileo's original post, and well before Galileo's multiple and erroneous claims that no one had responded to that post. I can certainly understand how Galileo could have missed it, busy as he is dodging other threads (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3824412#post3824412) where's he's been cornered.

None of this has anything to do with what Barry Jennings says.

Brown says he left the OEM. That makes sense, since when Jennings and Hess got there they found hot coffee. Brown left his coffee.

The testimony of Zarrillo is later. Jennings never says he was at the OEM at 9:30, Jennings sasy he ws there at 9:03.

Zarrillo never mentions hot coffee. By the time he got there, the coffee had cooled down to near room temperature.

Sheirer is not a witness to what was going on at the OEM at 9:03.

[johnny karate]

None of this has anything to do with what Barry Jennings says.

Whether that's true or not is entirely irrelevant. You claimed there were no responses to your post. Clearly there was. So you either have issues with reading or the truth.

[~enigma~]

Whether that's true or not is entirely irrelevant. You claimed there were no responses to your post. Clearly there was. So you either have issues with reading or the truth.
He is a truther so to answer your question, he has problems with both.

[Norseman]

No, this was one of the maintenance engineers. He was up near or on the roof when he started to evacuate the building, checking the floors as he went down.

He even unplugged coffee makers that had been left on, so this was before the power to the building was cut.

I found it when I was searching for witness accounts from inside WTC 7:

Operating Engineers in Action at the Disasterthe World Trade Center Disaster (http://www.iuoeiettc.org/Old%20files/Old%20PDF%20files/Responding%20to%20Horror_WTC.pdf)

It contains three long and detailed accounts of three engineers at the World Trade Center. Two from WTC 7 and one from WTC 1.

The account with Jose Gregori you were looking for Alfred_Packer starts on page 30 (PDF 39).

On page 23 (PDF 32) there is another story by Mike Catalano with far more details than the story I linked earlier in this thread.

Gives a lot of detail of how the building was evacuated. If Hess and Jennings had been in the stairs after 9:03 they would not exactly have been alone, because the stairs were used by the tenants to evacuate the building.

Once again Hess and Jennings arrived on 23rd floor some minutes before WTC 2 collapsed. Some time after that they started to walk down the stairs and were forced back to the 8th floor by dust and smoke from the collapse of WTC 1. I doubt very much that the stair were destroyed at all, judging from the description of their rescue in NIST NCSTAR 1-8 on page 109 and 110 that I reread today. Jennings is either very confused or worse, because his story is so at odds with every other account from WTC 7.

[Galileo]

I found it when I was searching for witness accounts from inside WTC 7:

Operating Engineers in Action at the Disasterthe World Trade Center Disaster (http://www.iuoeiettc.org/Old%20files/Old%20PDF%20files/Responding%20to%20Horror_WTC.pdf)

It contains three long and detailed accounts of three engineers at the World Trade Center. Two from WTC 7 and one from WTC 1.

The account with Jose Gregori you were looking for Alfred_Packer starts on page 30 (PDF 39).

On page 23 (PDF 32) there is another story by Mike Catalano with far more details than the story I linked earlier in this thread.

Gives a lot of detail of how the building was evacuated. If Hess and Jennings had been in the stairs after 9:03 they would not exactly have been alone, because the stairs were used by the tenants to evacuate the building.

Once again Hess and Jennings arrived on 23rd floor some minutes before WTC 2 collapsed. Some time after that they started to walk down the stairs and were forced back to the 8th floor by dust and smoke from the collapse of WTC 1. I doubt very much that the stair were destroyed at all, judging from the description of their rescue in NIST NCSTAR 1-8 on page 109 and 110 that I reread today. Jennings is either very confused or worse, because his story is so at odds with every other account from WTC 7.

Mike Catalano says he was in WTC 7 in the morning and was checking with the Building Monitoring System. He says "everything was monitored".

Yet he doesn't mention that the building alarm system was placed on test status at 6:47 A.M. Who was monitoring that?

He also says the North tower is less tham 100 yards away, a false statement as the North tower was at closest, 355 feet away.

He sounds very confused about what happened.

He also says people were evacuating before the first plane hit and then when the second plane hit. What happened to your story that people didn't evacuate until 9:45?

He also says they made it down, from the 44th floor, "in minutes".

So that means if Jennings and Hess were on the 23rd floor at 9:03, and walked around for 5 or 10 minutes before they decided to leave, all these people in the "packed" staircase would have been gone by then.

Was the staircase really "packed" on the 47th floor, or is he just confused?

He also was not on the 23rd floor, so what he says about Jennings and Hess is irrelevant to their timeline.

Regarding Joe Gregori, he even mentions the coffee pots that he turned off, consistent with Jennings report of still steaming coffee. We can imagine that not all the coffee pots were turned off before people left.

This witness was not on the 23rd floor, either, except when they said they checked floors one-by-one, but that was much later, after Jennings and hEss were gone. Everything that Jennings and Hess say is consistent with other witnesses.

You don't have any witnesses on the 23rd floor at 9:03, do you?

Well, I do; Hess and Jennings.

:jaw-dropp

[Norseman]

He also says people were evacuating before the first plane hit and then when the second plane hit. What happened to your story that people didn't evacuate until 9:45?

Some of the workers in the building started to self evacuate after the first plane hit. More people left after the second plane hit. And after the second plane an official evacuation of building was ordred. But that did not include the OEM that was evacuated later because the report about a possible third plane.

Some accounts from ordinary office workers in the building:

THE evening of that chaotic day brought the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, a building sheathed in dark brown glass that was 47 stories high but looked like a runty sibling in the shadow of the twin towers. Among its offices were those of 85 people, including Sean Coughlin, on the legal team of Salomon Smith Barney.

At 8:48 a.m., Mr. Coughlin was talking to a colleague in his office on the 31st floor, a cup of coffee in hand, looking out over the blue serge Hudson, when he heard the plane hitting 1 World Trade Center, just to the south.
..................
After the second plane hit, he and his colleagues raced for the stairs.
Source: New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E4D71E3BF930A1575AC0A9679C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)


SALADINO: I was on the 28th floor of No. 7 World Trade working in the southeastern corner.
..........
SALADINO: At around 8:40, I heard a tremendous explosion, followed by what felt like an earthquake rumble. After that immediately, we looked towards the southern window and saw debris -- building parts, glass and metal shatter to the ground.
...........
SALADINO: About two minutes. I must have ran down the stairs as fast as possible.
...........
SALADINO: Well, initially when I got down to the ground floor, the second plane had hit the southern World Trade Center, and again, people started to panic. People started to cry. People started to get away from the front lobby windows. After that, security guards then pushed people down the escalator around the back entrance and up towards Greenwich Street, getting people as north as possible away from the incident.
Source: CNN (http://premium.edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/lad.17.html)


Andrene Denniston, 36, a vice-president with brokerage firm Salomon Smith Barney, was working in the World Trade Center Building Seven across the street from the Twin Towers when the first plane hit. She said, "We heard a booming noise. We looked around and saw debris falling off the building. We looked up and saw that Number One (the North Tower) had been hit. I was on the 28th floor of our building looking directly at a huge gaping hole on about the 90th floor.
.......
The phone rang and it was my sister. And just at that moment we heard another incredible bang. My sister yelled that a plane had just hit Number 2. She then screamed, "Get ... out of there!' We took the stairs down al the way and then began to head for the Brooklyn Bridge.
........

Source: http://maninut.com/patriotic_sites/tribute.htm

Whitney Usas was working in the Smith Barney investment company office on the 33rd floor of Seven World Trade Center about 100 feet across a plaza from the towers.
..........
• 8:45: American Airlines Flight 11 from Boston crashes into north tower of World Trade Center. Tower begins burning. Phone connections lost.
• 8:50: Whitney and other Smith Barney investment company employees begin filing down 33 flights of steps to lobby in building only feet from tower. Building security keeps everyone in the building.
• 9:03: Second hijacked airplane from Boston, United Airlines Flight 175, slams into the south tower. Both buildings burning.
• 9:17: Federal Aviation Administration shuts down all New York City airports.
• 9:30: Security guards allow Usas and other employees to leave building.

Source
(http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1565727334&page_url=%2f%2fwww.news-press.com%2fapps%2fpbcs.dll%2farticle%3fAID%3d%2f2 0060530%2fNEWS0101%2f605300372%2f1075&page_last_updated=5%2f30%2f2006+4%3a06%3a03+AM&firstName=Whitney&lastName=Usas)

Hi. I was working for Salomon Smith Barney on the 38th floor of 7 WTC at 8:48AM on 9/11 when the first plane hit. My office looked out with a south view and I had seen the Towers and Ellis Island for the last 8 years. It was a picture postcard view. A coworker of mine, who was there at the time of the bombing 9 years ago, instinctively knew to get out of there and we all got on the first elevator that came (probably not the right thing to do, but we did it anyway) and made it down to the lobby without incident in a couple of minutes. We waited in the lobby until a second crash hit (not the second plane, just debris falling) and evacuated the building.
Source (http://alumni.binghamton.edu/enews/sept/main.htm)

Her husband, meanwhile, was at the trading desk at Smith Barney Asset Management on the 43rd floor of 7 World Trade Center when the first plane hit. "The building shook for a long time, and we looked out the window and saw debris falling down and fire all over the place." Mr. Kirkwood said some people in the office started crying, and then someone on the desk told everyone to get out.

Outside, Mr. Kirkwood started heading toward the ferry. "I stopped to talk to someone I recognized and looked up saw a plane bank and go right into the other tower," Mr. Kirkwood said. At that point he knew it was intentional, and said to the other person, "Let's get out of here."
Source (http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2002/breaking-news-reporting/works/wsj7.html)

[Grizzly Bear]

PS
If anyone was wondering how debris hitting the SW and south side of WTC 7 started a fire on the NE and north side, now ya know. It didn't.

fires have a tendency to 'spread', you know... just in case... The same thing happened in the twin towers too... fires spread far beyond the impact zone, WTC 7 was burning for how long? 5... 6 hours... more than enough time for the fire to spread... and especially w/out firefighting efforts.

[Galileo]

Some of the workers in the building started to self evacuate after the first plane hit. More people left after the second plane hit. And after the second plane an official evacuation of building was ordred. But that did not include the OEM that was evacuated later because the report about a possible third plane.

Some accounts from ordinary office workers in the building:


Source: New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E4D71E3BF930A1575AC0A9679C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)


Source: CNN (http://premium.edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/lad.17.html)


Source: http://maninut.com/patriotic_sites/tribute.htm


Source
(http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1565727334&page_url=%2f%2fwww.news-press.com%2fapps%2fpbcs.dll%2farticle%3fAID%3d%2f2 0060530%2fNEWS0101%2f605300372%2f1075&page_last_updated=5%2f30%2f2006+4%3a06%3a03+AM&firstName=Whitney&lastName=Usas)


Source (http://alumni.binghamton.edu/enews/sept/main.htm)


Source (http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2002/breaking-news-reporting/works/wsj7.html)

none of these people were on the 23rd floor.

the people who evacuated the 23rd floor at 9:45, didn't even get there until about 9:30, as your earlier posts prove. Jennings never says he was on the 23rd floor at 9:30, he was there at 9:03. Jennings timeline is very clear and self consistent.

Face it. You're against Jennings not because of the facts, but because he threatens your conspiracy theory.

[johnny karate]

Face it. You're against Jennings not because of the facts, but because he threatens your conspiracy theory.

How specifically does Jennings' account do this?

[~enigma~]

Wow, Norseman believes in a CT...

:big:

[Dog Town]

Brown says he left the OEM. That makes sense, since when Jennings and Hess got there they found hot coffee.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)
Yep, that is worth four!
Where is that Stundie thread?

[MaGZ]

I found it when I was searching for witness accounts from inside WTC 7:

Operating Engineers in Action at the Disasterthe World Trade Center Disaster (http://www.iuoeiettc.org/Old%20files/Old%20PDF%20files/Responding%20to%20Horror_WTC.pdf)

It contains three long and detailed accounts of three engineers at the World Trade Center. Two from WTC 7 and one from WTC 1.

The account with Jose Gregori you were looking for Alfred_Packer starts on page 30 (PDF 39).

On page 23 (PDF 32) there is another story by Mike Catalano with far more details than the story I linked earlier in this thread.

Gives a lot of detail of how the building was evacuated. If Hess and Jennings had been in the stairs after 9:03 they would not exactly have been alone, because the stairs were used by the tenants to evacuate the building.

Once again Hess and Jennings arrived on 23rd floor some minutes before WTC 2 collapsed. Some time after that they started to walk down the stairs and were forced back to the 8th floor by dust and smoke from the collapse of WTC 1. I doubt very much that the stair were destroyed at all, judging from the description of their rescue in NIST NCSTAR 1-8 on page 109 and 110 that I reread today. Jennings is either very confused or worse, because his story is so at odds with every other account from WTC 7.

You have got it all wrong.
Jennings and Hess likely were in a stairwell that was adjacent to a service elevator on the south side of WTC 7. The public used the stairwells and elevators in the center of WTC 7, not the one used by Jennings and Hess. The stairwell was damaged by the explosion where Jennings was hanging on for survival. These are his words.

[MaGZ]

Quote:
Andrene Denniston, 36, a vice-president with brokerage firm Salomon Smith Barney, was working in the World Trade Center Building Seven across the street from the Twin Towers when the first plane hit. She said, "We heard a booming noise. We looked around and saw debris falling off the building. We looked up and saw that Number One (the North Tower) had been hit. I was on the 28th floor of our building looking directly at a huge gaping hole on about the 90th floor.
.......
The phone rang and it was my sister. And just at that moment we heard another incredible bang. My sister yelled that a plane had just hit Number 2. She then screamed, "Get ... out of there!' We took the stairs down al the way and then began to head for the Brooklyn Bridge.
........


Booming noise vs. incredible bang

Please note the difference. The booming noise heard was from the crash of the first plane into WTC 1. The incredible bang was when the missile hit WTC 7 a second late after the crash of the second plane into WTC 2. The witness is saying the second event made the greatest noise even though the second plane crash was further from WTC 7.

Thoughts.

[leftysergeant]

fires have a tendency to 'spread', you know... just in case... The same thing happened in the twin towers too... fires spread far beyond the impact zone, WTC 7 was burning for how long? 5... 6 hours... more than enough time for the fire to spread... and especially w/out firefighting efforts.

Fire department video shows a lot of trhe fires burning in flash-over. That has a tendancy to spread really fast.

[leftysergeant]

Quote:


Booming noise vs. incredible bang

Please note the difference. The booming noise heard was from the crash of the first plane into WTC 1. The incredible bang was when the missile hit WTC 7 a second late after the crash of the second plane into WTC 2. The witness is saying the second event made the greatest noise even though the second plane crash was further from WTC 7.

Thoughts.

There is no reliable account of a missile, no film of a missile, and no report of damage to WTC 7 before the collapse of the north tower. The "missile blather is one of the more stupid stories surrounding the events of the day.

[Norseman]

You have got it all wrong.
Jennings and Hess likely were in a stairwell that was adjacent to a service elevator on the south side of WTC 7. The public used the stairwells and elevators in the center of WTC 7, not the one used by Jennings and Hess. The stairwell was damaged by the explosion where Jennings was hanging on for survival. These are his words.

Please provide a link to information confirming that this stairwell and service elevator existed at all.

[MaGZ]

There is no reliable account of a missile, no film of a missile, and no report of damage to WTC 7 before the collapse of the north tower. The "missile blather is one of the more stupid stories surrounding the events of the day.

The local FOX news in NYC has footage of the missile strike on WTC 7.

[MaGZ]

Please provide a link to information confirming that this stairwell and service elevator existed at all.

Did Jennings say he looked out the window from the stairwell and saw the Twin Towers standing? It stands to reason the stairwell was on the south side of WTC7.

Was it reported two elevators were blasted from their shafts in WTC 7? It stand to reason these elevators were service elevators on the south side of WTC 7 next to the stairwell and not in the center of the building.

Also it stands to reason the blast that destroyed the landing in the stairwell was the same blast that displaced the two elevators.

I have no links other than the synapses in my brain.

[gumboot]

MaGZ and Galileo you are displaying some of the worst Conspiracy Theory debating I have ever witnessed on these forums, and I've seen some pretty bad debating.

This entire thread is one massive epic FAIL.

[Grizzly Bear]

MaGZ and Galileo you are displaying some of the worst Conspiracy Theory debating I have ever witnessed on these forums, and I've seen some pretty bad debating.

This entire thread is one massive epic FAIL.

And to emphasize that I add this:
http://johnnytan88.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/epic-failure.jpg

Booming noise vs. incredible bang

Please note the difference. The booming noise heard was from the crash of the first plane into WTC 1. The incredible bang was when the missile hit WTC 7 a second late after the crash of the second plane into WTC 2. The witness is saying the second event made the greatest noise even though the second plane crash was further from WTC 7.

Thoughts.

So these accounts were at the same time? If so I don't see the merit of your claim. They are two different wordings of the same event... nothing more

[Galileo]

Did Jennings say he looked out the window from the stairwell and saw the Twin Towers standing? It stands to reason the stairwell was on the south side of WTC7.

Was it reported two elevators were blasted from their shafts in WTC 7? It stand to reason these elevators were service elevators on the south side of WTC 7 next to the stairwell and not in the center of the building.

Also it stands to reason the blast that destroyed the landing in the stairwell was the same blast that displaced the two elevators.

I have no links other than the synapses in my brain.

Jennings never says anything about looking out the windows from the stairwell. He said he was on the 6th floor in the stairwell when there was a huge explosion. He went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows.

[Galileo]

MaGZ and Galileo you are displaying some of the worst Conspiracy Theory debating I have ever witnessed on these forums, and I've seen some pretty bad debating.

This entire thread is one massive epic FAIL.

You comment fails to provide any evidence that is not consistent with the testimony of Barry Jennings and Mike Hess.

[MaGZ]

Jennings never says anything about looking out the windows from the stairwell. He said he was on the 6th floor in the stairwell when there was a huge explosion. He went up to the 8th floor and looked out the windows.

Do you think he was trapped in the stairwell?

Was he able roam freely on the 8th floor?

[Galileo]

Please provide a link to information confirming that this stairwell and service elevator existed at all.

I agree with Norseman on this. What's your evidence for a third stairwell?

[Galileo]

Do you think he was trapped in the stairwell?

Was he able roam freely on the 8th floor?

Did you listen to his interview? He said he was left there hanging and pulled himself up by a railing. Then they went up to the 8th floor.

The 8th floor was free from damage at that time, before the towers collapsed. Yes he could roam freely.

The north side of WTC 7 would have had less smoke, and a view of people entering the area.

Was there really a third stairwell or not? We need evidence.

[MaGZ]

Did you listen to his interview? He said he was left there hanging and pulled himself up by a railing. Then they went up to the 8th floor.

The 8th floor was free from damage at that time, before the towers collapsed. Yes he could roam freely.

The north side of WTC 7 would have had less smoke, and a view of people entering the area.

Was there really a third stairwell or not? We need evidence.

I am under the impression both Hess and Jennings were trapped in the stairwell for several hours with fires nearby and plenty of smoke. That is my memory of the interviews.

Yes Jennings was hanging from the broken stairs on the 6th and they went up to the 8th. I think they were trapped and for some reason could not go further up. The exit door might have been jammed from the explosion especially if they were near the two elevators that were ejected from their shafts.

Jennings later took a fire extinguisher and broke a window in the stairwell to get attention.

This is my understanding of the interview.

[Galileo]

I am under the impression both Hess and Jennings were trapped in the stairwell for several hours with fires nearby and plenty of smoke. That is my memory of the interviews.

Yes Jennings was hanging from the broken stairs on the 6th and they went up to the 8th. I think they were trapped and for some reason could not go further up. The exit door might have been jammed from the explosion especially if they were near the two elevators that were ejected from their shafts.

Jennings later took a fire extinguisher and broke a window in the stairwell to get attention.

This is my understanding of the interview.

They were trapped on the 8th floor when they were waiting to be rescued.

[MaGZ]

They were trapped on the 8th floor when they were waiting to be rescued.

That just doesn’t make sense. To be trapped on all of the 8th floor, in an area as big as a football field, with plenty of stairwells in the center of the building to exit, just to me makes no sense.

[Norseman]

I am under the impression both Hess and Jennings were trapped in the stairwell for several hours with fires nearby and plenty of smoke. That is my memory of the interviews.

Yes Jennings was hanging from the broken stairs on the 6th and they went up to the 8th. I think they were trapped and for some reason could not go further up. The exit door might have been jammed from the explosion especially if they were near the two elevators that were ejected from their shafts.

Jennings later took a fire extinguisher and broke a window in the stairwell to get attention.

This is my understanding of the interview.

MaGZ there is nothing the interview that indicates that there were any windows in the stairwell. Quiet the contrary. At about 4:33 Jennings says that the stairwell became pitch black because all the lights went out. Then at about 4:50 there is a break in the interview before Jennings in a new cut starts to talk about seeing both towers standing, where he exactly is in the building at point is not stated in the interview. But he claimed earlier that they went back to the eight floor. So we can assume that he is somewhere on the eight floor. Since there is numerous windows on the eight floor there is no need to invent a stairwell with windows on the south side of the building. And there is no claim in the interview stating that they were trapped in the stairwell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRaKHq2dfCI

Regarding the two elevators, this is what the NIST Interim report on WTC 7 (http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf) says on page L-18:
from inside the building at the 8th or 9th Floor elevator lobby, where two elevator cars were ejected from their shafts and landed in the hallway north of the elevator shaft, the visible portion of the south wall was gone with more light visible from the west side possibly indicating damage extending to the west.


And on page L-51:
The extent of damage, both
structural and to fireproofing, of core framing is not known, but damage to elevator cars and shafts was reported to have occurred around columns 69 to 78 at Floors 8 or 9.

If you look at the two drawings in Figure L-5 on page L-6, you will see that columns 69 to 78 are core columns, and you can see the placement of elevator shafts and stairwells. If I am not mistaken your source for the information about the two elevators were in fact this report.

[Galileo]

That just doesn’t make sense. To be trapped on all of the 8th floor, in an area as big as a football field, with plenty of stairwells in the center of the building to exit, just to me makes no sense.

As far as I know, there were only two stairwells in WTC 7, and one was blocked by the explosion. They give no indication they knew where the other one was.

[Norseman]

You can only say they was there around 9:03. Jennings and Hess did not react to the crash of the second plane because they were experiencing the explosion at 9:03 in the stairwell when the plane hit WTC 2. I think the were on the 23rd floor about 9:00.

Well at about 3:20 in the interview he says that had to been inside on the 23rd floor when the second plane hit. If you agree that Jennings is wrong about this, maybe it is time to question the reliability of his claims in the remainder of the interview to.

[Norseman]

I am under the impression both Hess and Jennings were trapped in the stairwell for several hours with fires nearby and plenty of smoke. That is my memory of the interviews.


It is correct that Jennings in the interview claims that he was trapped in the stairwell for several hours. But this contradicted by the interview Michael Hess gave on september 11th 2001 at 11:59 am, shortly after their rescue. In the interview Hess states that they were trapped for about one and half hour the 8th floor.

The Interview with Mr. Hess can also be heard in this WTC 7 truther video. It is at 6:20:
6475257160515133665

Last year there was blogger at 911Blogger.com that had obtained a copy of the live coverage from UPN 9 News that contained the interview with Hess. The blogger claimed initially that the interview took place at 11:34. But in the comments section the blogger honestly enough had to backtrack and conclude that the interview began just before 11:59 instead, after a closer look at the tape:

http://911blogger.com/node/10425

The blog entry also contains a transcript of the interview.


This is transcript from the blogg:
The following was in response to, “Mr. Hess, you were trapped in, I believe, 7 World Trade Center. Go ahead, sir.”:

"Yes, I was. I was up in the emergency management center on the twenty-third floor, and when all the power went out in the building, uh, another gentleman and I walked down to the eighth floor where there was an explosion and we were trapped on the eighth floor with smoke, thick smoke, all around us, for about an hour and a half. But the New York Fire Department, as terrific as they are, just came and got us out."

The following was in response to the question, “Where is the mayor located now?”:

“I don’t know, myself, as I said- I was trapped in 7 World Trade Center for the last hour and a half.”

We know that the power went out in the building when WTC 2 collapsed at about 9:59. That is why they used the stairs. Then they became trapped by the collapse of WTC 1 that caused severe damage to WTC 7 at about 10:28. Then Hess could be out of WTC 7 at about 11:50 in time for the interview. This is well within the frame of what is reasonable to call about one and half hour.

As I have said before Barry Jennings is either very confused or worse. Because parts of his story is so at odds with all other accounts and reports regarding WTC 7

[MaGZ]

MaGZ there is nothing the interview that indicates that there were any windows in the stairwell. Quiet the contrary. At about 4:33 Jennings says that the stairwell became pitch black because all the lights went out. Then at about 4:50 there is a break in the interview before Jennings in a new cut starts to talk about seeing both towers standing, where he exactly is in the building at point is not stated in the interview. But he claimed earlier that they went back to the eight floor. So we can assume that he is somewhere on the eight floor. Since there is numerous windows on the eight floor there is no need to invent a stairwell with windows on the south side of the building. And there is no claim in the interview stating that they were trapped in the stairwell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRaKHq2dfCI

Regarding the two elevators, this is what the NIST Interim report on WTC 7 (http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf) says on page L-18:


And on page L-51:


If you look at the two drawings in Figure L-5 on page L-6, you will see that columns 69 to 78 are core columns, and you can see the placement of elevator shafts and stairwells. If I am not mistaken your source for the information about the two elevators were in fact this report.

Thanks for you comments on what Jennings said in his interview. I am still unclear as to what happened to Jennings and Hess. I would like to hear more detailed information from them. There are too many loose ends of this story.

How far inside WTC 7 were the two displaced elevators? In the center, a third in, a fourth in from the south side of WTC 7? I don’t see how they could be displaced if they were anywhere other that near the south wall of WTC 7.

[MaGZ]

Well at about 3:20 in the interview he says that had to been inside on the 23rd floor when the second plane hit. If you agree that Jennings is wrong about this, maybe it is time to question the reliability of his claims in the remainder of the interview to.

Everyone at Ground Zero that day could tell you exactly were they were when the second plane hit WTC 2. The only person who seems to be unsure is Barry Jennings. He thinks he was on the 23rd floor when the plane hit but he cannot say for certain. If he was there he would have heard it and seen the explosion for the windows.

Until a better explanation is offered I will maintain the explosion in the stairwell and the crash of the second plane were fractions of seconds apart. This is why Jennings is unsure where he was when the plane hit WTC 2.

[MaGZ]

It is correct that Jennings in the interview claims that he was trapped in the stairwell for several hours. But this contradicted by the interview Michael Hess gave on september 11th 2001 at 11:59 am, shortly after their rescue. In the interview Hess states that they were trapped for about one and half hour the 8th floor.



This is transcript from the blogg:


We know that the power went out in the building when WTC 2 collapsed at about 9:59. That is why they used the stairs. Then they became trapped by the collapse of WTC 1 that caused severe damage to WTC 7 at about 10:28. Then Hess could be out of WTC 7 at about 11:50 in time for the interview. This is well within the frame of what is reasonable to call about one and half hour.

As I have said before Barry Jennings is either very confused or worse. Because parts of his story is so at odds with all other accounts and reports regarding WTC 7

That timeline is cutting pretty close to get the interview in by Hess before noon.
If the explosion was at 9:03 and they were trapped for a hour and half as Hess said, then they may have been rescued between 10:30 and 11:00. Plenty of time to get over their experience and be interviewed.

Also if they were trapped in the starwell for an hour or two then they could not roam freely on the 8th floor. If you are trapped in a stairwell you have to wait to be resuced. How could they signal via a window if they could not leave a windowless stairwell?

[Norseman]

As I have said before Barry Jennings is either very confused or worse. Because parts of his story is so at odds with all other accounts and reports regarding WTC 7

After a close review of the interview with Barry Jennings, it looks quiet clear to me that the whole thing is a very dishonest cut and paste job, grossly misrepresenting what Barry Jennings said during the interview. Something that hardly would be surprising given the track record of Prison Planet and the Loose Change Crew.

For instance watch the part starting at 4:52 when Jennings says "both buildings were still standing" here:
kRaKHq2dfCI

Then compare it to the part of last years audio only version that starts at 1:32 here:
NttM3oUrNmE

Quiet a bit different than the video video version released this year. I would say that last years audio only version was an even worse cut and paste job than this years version. That part of last years version doesn't sound right at all. And they couldn't use it in this years video version since it would be obvious that it was cut and paste.

My impression from the materiel they have released is that they conducted a lengthy interview with Barry Jennings. From the raw footage they pieced together several out of context excerpts into a fake story about an explosion in the stairwell before the towers collapsed.

But I am quiet certain that Barry Jennings gave a straight forward account fully consistent with aircraft hits, the collapse of WTC 2 and WTC 1. A story without any extra explosions other than what can easily be explained with the collapse of the towers and subsequent fires inside WTC 7.

Here is my take on parts of the interview. Barry Jennings worked for the New York City Housing Authority. The housing authority has its main office at 250 Broadway just two blocks away from WTC 7. Judging from the first part of the interview it therefore looks reasonable that he was inside the OEM on the 23rd floor when the second plane hit. Note that he uses "I" in that part of the interview, there is no indication that he arrived there at that time with Hess. Then there is a very obvious jump to the next part of the interview where he now is together with Hesss in the OEM. He now uses "we". This part of the interview most likely describes the situation after the collapse of WTC 2. Jennings is calling to find out what's going on, while Hess is looking for the emergency exit since the power is gone and the elevator is no longer working. Also the part where he says that "both towers were standing" looks out of context. We do not know what he was talking about before the video suddenly jumps straight to that part of the interview.

It is reasonable to think that Jennings left the OEM sometime after the second plane hit for some reason. Then he came back later with Hess shortly before the collapse of WTC 2.

As said, this looks like a twisted story by Prison Planet. Since they are controlling the raw footage they have perfect deniability if Barry Jennings contradicts them on record. They can, as they already have done, claim that Barry Jennings has been pressured into changing his story. The footage they might have proving that Jennings is right, will of course never be released.

To cut this short, there is as far as I can see, no need to call Barry Jennings confused or worse as I have done earlier. Hopefully the BBC program tonight might shed some more light on this.

Addendum
Here is a scholarly paper that sheds quiet a lot of light on what was going on inside the OEM before the evacuation at around 09:30 am:
IMPROVISING 9/11: ORGANIZATIONAL IMPROVISATION FOLLOWING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER (http://www.udel.edu/DRC/Wachtendorf_Improvising_9_11.pdf)

Page 71 - 76 describes the how the OEM were organized and the facility. Page 76 - 78 discusses what happened inside the OEM before the evacuation, with focus on the lengthy decision process on whether they should evacuate or not. Something the OEM staff were very reluctant do. While some of the agencies that were called in left quiet early. Barry Jennings and the Housing Authority could have been among those agencies.

It is well worth the read if you want to know more about the OEM, though the text is a bit academic since this is a scholarly paper.

[MaGZ]

After a close review of the interview with Barry Jennings, it looks quiet clear to me that the whole thing is a very dishonest cut and paste job, grossly misrepresenting what Barry Jennings said during the interview. Something that hardly would be surprising given the track record of Prison Planet and the Loose Change Crew.

For instance watch the part starting at 4:52 when Jennings says "both buildings were still standing" here:
kRaKHq2dfCI

Then compare it to the part of last years audio only version that starts at 1:32 here:
NttM3oUrNmE

Quiet a bit different than the video video version released this year. I would say that last years audio only version was an even worse cut and paste job than this years version. That part of last years version doesn't sound right at all. And they couldn't use it in this years video version since it would be obvious that it was cut and paste.

My impression from the materiel they have released is that they conducted a lengthy interview with Barry Jennings. From the raw footage they pieced together several out of context excerpts into a fake story about an explosion in the stairwell before the towers collapsed.

But I am quiet certain that Barry Jennings gave a straight forward account fully consistent with aircraft hits, the collapse of WTC 2 and WTC 1. A story without any extra explosions other than what can easily be explained with the collapse of the towers and subsequent fires inside WTC 7.

Here is my take on parts of the interview. Barry Jennings worked for the New York City Housing Authority. The housing authority has its main office at 250 Broadway just two blocks away from WTC 7. Judging from the first part of the interview it therefore looks reasonable that he was inside the OEM on the 23rd floor when the second plane hit. Note that he uses "I" in that part of the interview, there is no indication that he arrived there at that time with Hess. Then there is a very obvious jump to the next part of the interview where he now is together with Hesss in the OEM. He now uses "we". This part of the interview most likely describes the situation after the collapse of WTC 2. Jennings is calling to find out what's going on, while Hess is looking for the emergency exit since the power is gone and the elevator is no longer working. Also the part where he says that "both towers were standing" looks out of context. We do not know what he was talking about before the video suddenly jumps straight to that part of the interview.

It is reasonable to think that Jennings left the OEM sometime after the second plane hit for some reason. Then he came back later with Hess shortly before the collapse of WTC 2.

As said, this looks like a twisted story by Prison Planet. Since they are controlling the raw footage they have perfect deniability if Barry Jennings contradicts them on record. They can, as they already have done, claim that Barry Jennings has been pressured into changing his story. The footage they might have proving that Jennings is right, will of course never be released.

To cut this short, there is as far as I can see, no need to call Barry Jennings confused or worse as I have done earlier. Hopefully the BBC program tonight might shed some more light on this.

Addendum
Here is a scholarly paper that sheds quiet a lot of light on what was going on inside the OEM before the evacuation at around 09:30 am:
IMPROVISING 9/11: ORGANIZATIONAL IMPROVISATION FOLLOWING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER (http://www.udel.edu/DRC/Wachtendorf_Improvising_9_11.pdf)

Page 71 - 76 describes the how the OEM were organized and the facility. Page 76 - 78 discusses what happened inside the OEM before the evacuation, with focus on the lengthy decision process on whether they should evacuate or not. Something the OEM staff were very reluctant do. While some of the agencies that were called in left quiet early. Barry Jennings and the Housing Authority could have been among those agencies.

It is well worth the read if you want to know more about the OEM, though the text is a bit academic since this is a scholarly paper.

Thanks for you analysis. Since it is a cut a past job I can no longer be a strong advocate for what happened to Jennings and Hess. I’m reserving judgement. There is not enough information here. They should come forward and clear things up.

However this does not mean I have abandoned Jennings claim there was an explosion in the stairwell. I would like to hear more from Jennings and Hess.

Who is the member on this forum who has a interview program? They should interview Jennings and Hess.

[Alt+F4]

That just doesn’t make sense. To be trapped on all of the 8th floor, in an area as big as a football field, with plenty of stairwells in the center of the building to exit, just to me makes no sense.

Now this is too funny. Someone who thinks a missile struck the WTC is trying to make sense of something.

Ok, MaGZ I'll explain it to you. The stairwell in question was secretly hidden by Mossad agents in the days before 9/11 so Jennings and Hess wouldn't be able to find it. Sneaky Jews!

Oh yeah, and it was built by black people.

[Norseman]

After a close review of the interview with Barry Jennings, it looks quiet clear to me that the whole thing is a very dishonest cut and paste job, grossly misrepresenting what Barry Jennings said during the interview. Something that hardly would be surprising given the track record of Prison Planet and the Loose Change Crew.

For instance watch the part starting at 4:52 when Jennings says "both buildings were still standing" here:
kRaKHq2dfCI

Then compare it to the part of last years audio only version that starts at 1:32 here:
NttM3oUrNmE

Quiet a bit different than the video video version released this year. I would say that last years audio only version was an even worse cut and paste job than this years version. That part of last years version doesn't sound right at all. And they couldn't use it in this years video version since it would be obvious that it was cut and paste.

My impression from the materiel they have released is that they conducted a lengthy interview with Barry Jennings. From the raw footage they pieced together several out of context excerpts into a fake story about an explosion in the stairwell before the towers collapsed.

But I am quiet certain that Barry Jennings gave a straight forward account fully consistent with aircraft hits, the collapse of WTC 2 and WTC 1. A story without any extra explosions other than what can easily be explained with the collapse of the towers and subsequent fires inside WTC 7.

Here is my take on parts of the interview. Barry Jennings worked for the New York City Housing Authority. The housing authority has its main office at 250 Broadway just two blocks away from WTC 7. Judging from the first part of the interview it therefore looks reasonable that he was inside the OEM on the 23rd floor when the second plane hit. Note that he uses "I" in that part of the interview, there is no indication that he arrived there at that time with Hess. Then there is a very obvious jump to the next part of the interview where he now is together with Hesss in the OEM. He now uses "we". This part of the interview most likely describes the situation after the collapse of WTC 2. Jennings is calling to find out what's going on, while Hess is looking for the emergency exit since the power is gone and the elevator is no longer working. Also the part where he says that "both towers were standing" looks out of context. We do not know what he was talking about before the video suddenly jumps straight to that part of the interview.

It is reasonable to think that Jennings left the OEM sometime after the second plane hit for some reason. Then he came back later with Hess shortly before the collapse of WTC 2.

As said, this looks like a twisted story by Prison Planet. Since they are controlling the raw footage they have perfect deniability if Barry Jennings contradicts them on record. They can, as they already have done, claim that Barry Jennings has been pressured into changing his story. The footage they might have proving that Jennings is right, will of course never be released.

To cut this short, there is as far as I can see, no need to call Barry Jennings confused or worse as I have done earlier. Hopefully the BBC program tonight might shed some more light on this.

Addendum
Here is a scholarly paper that sheds quiet a lot of light on what was going on inside the OEM before the evacuation at around 09:30 am:
IMPROVISING 9/11: ORGANIZATIONAL IMPROVISATION FOLLOWING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER (http://www.udel.edu/DRC/Wachtendorf_Improvising_9_11.pdf)

Page 71 - 76 describes the how the OEM were organized and the facility. Page 76 - 78 discusses what happened inside the OEM before the evacuation, with focus on the lengthy decision process on whether they should evacuate or not. Something the OEM staff were very reluctant do. While some of the agencies that were called in left quiet early. Barry Jennings and the Housing Authority could have been among those agencies.

It is well worth the read if you want to know more about the OEM, though the text is a bit academic since this is a scholarly paper.

After I now have seen what appears to be the full uncut interview with Barry Jennings from the Loose Change crew. I have to say that Barry Jennings at the time of the interview was either very confused or worse. See this thread for further comments and link to the interview:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=118197

[Thunder]

Question #1. What time exactly did he hear the first explosion?

Question #2. How does he know for sure it was before the first tower collapsed, if he was inside the stairwell and not able to view the collapse?

Question #3. It is possible that the first explosion he heard was debree from the second plane impact hitting WTC 7? (it was flying in a northern direction)

Question #4. Has any debunkers contacted Barry to deal with these issues of time and location?

[Mangoose]

Here is another report of Jennings from 9/11. I'm not sure if this is based on the ABC broadcast:

After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel.

They were the only ones there. They felt and heard another explosion, probably the collapse of one building. He broke a window and screamed for help. Then they went down a stairwell.

"I told Hess, 'We've got to try to get out of here."' They got to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I thought I was dead. The whole building shook. ... I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell. It was like a bad movie."

Though covered in soot, Jennings was not physically injured. He said Hess escaped safely as well.

[~enigma~]

Good heavens no! I mean, I used to question some things, but the JREF set me straight on all of it. There are no mysteries left. Right?

Barry Jennings was mistaken. Only the jreffers get it right!
What was he mistaken about? That he heard explosions?

[Oxigen]

Well pretty much everything, according to you.

[~enigma~]

Well pretty much everything, according to you.
Really?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1325747a3c19b58419.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10538)

You care to compile my quotes where I said Jennings was wrong about everything otherwise I expect a retraction otherwise I will call you a filthy lying piece of dirt.

[Slayhamlet]

Barry Jennings was mistaken. Only the jreffers get it right!

Barry Jennings completely rejects any notion of an "inside job". Is he mistaken?

[~enigma~]

Barry Jennings completely rejects any notion of an "inside job". Is he mistaken?
Don't think he can answer since he should be compiling my quotes that he says I made since I accused Barry Jennings of being wrong about everything...

[T.A.M.]

Yeah, Parky, don't you read any threads before you post? This has all been covered, man! Everything has been covered. It's all available by searching the forum. Didn't you get the memo?

9/11 CTs have been so thoroughly (and easily) debunked here, nobody needs to waste their time answering your silly questions. This forum is, and has been for years, just a club; a place to backslap and congratulate each other on our intellectual superiority to those twoofer folks.

You are 100% correct, which is funny given your obvious sarcasm.

Good heavens no! I mean, I used to question some things, but the JREF set me straight on all of it. There are no mysteries left. Right?

Excellent. Welcome to the club. Be sure to bow to the Owl on the way in, and leave your issued weapon at the door.

And yet so much time and energy is still spent here, and so much bandwidth.

As long as there are idiots that believe the truth movements bullcrap, there will be bandwidth spent here...sorry it bugs you.

Barry Jennings was mistaken. Only the jreffers get it right!

First part is right, Jennings got it wrong...end of story.

Second part is wrong.

TAM:)

[cyclonic]

Is Barry Jennings a muslim? if so did this affect his memory?

listen at 0.56

5LO5V2CJpzI

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Is Barry Jennings a muslim? if so did this affect his memory?

listen at 0.56

5LO5V2CJpzI

Why would it?

[cyclonic]

Why would it?

He might be in denial about muslims doing 9/11.
"islam is a religion of peace" is quoted often by muslims.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

He might be in denial about muslims doing 9/11.
"islam is a religion of peace" is quoted often by muslims.

I thought I read a debunk today, here, saying that Jennings does not believe inside job. I might be wrong; open to being corrected here.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

He might be in denial about muslims doing 9/11.
"islam is a religion of peace" is quoted often by muslims.

Also, at the time he said this, Moslems hadn't been blamed yet. Well, actually they had in a few news reports, within about a half hour of the second plane (odd, that). But I don't think Jennings had seen a TV yet at the time of the interview.

[cyclonic]

Also, at the time he said this, Moslems hadn't been blamed yet. Well, actually they had in a few news reports, within about a half hour of the second plane (odd, that). But I don't think Jennings had seen a TV yet at the time of the interview.

He just mentions one explosion, nothing about secondary explosions, of course he doesn't know that bin laden did it, until later in the day.

bin laden declared war on the usa in 1998, bombed the embassies in africa and blew up the USS Cole and you think its odd that the news named him as a suspect?

[cyclonic]

Dylan avery has released his interview with barry jennings on wtc7.

part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VQY-ksiuwKU


part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxUj6UgPODo

[Walter Ego]

Dylan avery has released his interview with barry jennings on wtc7.

What Avery is calling the 'uncut' interview is actually the seqment removed from LC:FC at Jennings' request. He has not released the unedited interviews he made with Jennings.

Avery gives his rationale for releasing the interview on Prison Planet.


Fast forward to February, 2008, where I’m doing an interview with the BBC, and I’m informed by their crew that Barry told them the reason he asked for it to be pulled was because of the article on Prisonplanet claiming he was stepping over dead bodies, which he denies saying. I call Barry to attempt to rectify the situation, and he is adamant that he did not use the phrase “we were stepping over people”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/barry-jennings-uncut.html

The Prison Planet article contains Avery's 20 minute video (http://blip.tv/play/AcGweorIDA) where Jennings does say (at 6:40), "we were stepping over people," in the lobby of WTC7. He does not say he was stepping over dead bodies.

So Avery is either exaggerating or outright lying when he says Jennings told him he was stepping over dead bodies in the lobby (40 sec. mark in video embedded below).

Jennings says in the BBC inteview it felt like he was stepping over dead bodies. He did not see any bodies, however.

hsOKkDwyfjg

[Galileo]

After I now have seen what appears to be the full uncut interview with Barry Jennings from the Loose Change crew. I have to say that Barry Jennings at the time of the interview was either very confused or worse. See this thread for further comments and link to the interview:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=118197

You are confused. The Barry Jennings uncut video settles everything, the explosion was before either of the towers fell. Jennings is very clear on that.

[Alt+F4]

You are confused. The Barry Jennings uncut video settles everything, the explosion was before either of the towers fell. Jennings is very clear on that.

What about the bodies?

[Galileo]

What about the bodies?

The bodies have nothing to do with Jennings timeline. He stepped on the bodies without looking at them.

[Walter Ego]

What about the bodies?


Re: Jennings' statement about 'the bodies,' please see my post here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3852533&postcount=28).

[~enigma~]

The bodies have nothing to do with Jennings timeline. He stepped on the bodies without looking at them.
Then it should be extremely easy for you to show me where Jennings said he was stepping ON dead bodies.

[Alt+F4]

Re: Jennings' statement about 'the bodies,' please see my post here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3852533&postcount=28).

It's official, I'm confused. If what he was stepping over wasn't dead bodies then why did he say the cop told him not to look down?

[cyclonic]

What Avery is calling the 'uncut' interview is actually the seqment removed from LC:FC at Jennings' request. He has not released the unedited interviews he made with Jennings.

Avery gives his rationale for releasing the interview on Prison Planet.



The Prison Planet article contains Avery's 20 minute video (http://blip.tv/play/AcGweorIDA) where Jennings does say (at 6:40), "we were stepping over people," in the lobby of WTC7. He does not say he was stepping over dead bodies.

So Avery is either exaggerating or outright lying when he says Jennings told him he was stepping over dead bodies in the lobby (40 sec. mark in video embedded below).

Jennings says in the BBC inteview it felt like he was stepping over dead bodies. He did not see any bodies, however.

hsOKkDwyfjg

"do not look down" how can you walk through a totally destroyed lobby with out looking where you are walking and not tripping over rubble/bodies?
barry probably wanted his interview pulled because he realized his story is unbelievable.
barry should pray to allah and ask for guidance.

[Norseman]

You are confused. The Barry Jennings uncut video settles everything, the explosion was before either of the towers fell. Jennings is very clear on that.

You are wrong Galileo. There were no explosions inside WTC 7 before the collapses of the towers. If you had paid attention to all the witness accounts from inside WTC 7 that I have posted you will now that nothing happened to WTC 7 before the tower collapses. The collapse of WTC 2 broke several windows on the south face of WTC 7 and cut the power in the building. The collapse of WTC 1 caused severe structural damage to parts of WTC 7 while starting several fires in the building. Outside WTC 7 the collapse of WTC 1 started several car fires.

What Barry Jennings experienced on the 6th floor landing and the damage he described after entering into the eighth floor was caused by the collapse of WTC 1.

To put it another way, there would have been numerous witness accounts if what Jennings described occurred before either tower collapsed. But there is none since what Barry Jennings experienced was the collapse of WTC 1. Barry Jennings's timeline is wrong.

[Galileo]

You are wrong Galileo. There were no explosions inside WTC 7 before the collapses of the towers. If you had paid attention to all the witness accounts from inside WTC 7 that I have posted you will now that nothing happened to WTC 7 before the tower collapses. The collapse of WTC 2 broke several windows on the south face of WTC 7 and cut the power in the building. The collapse of WTC 1 caused severe structural damage to parts of WTC 7 while starting several fires in the building. Outside WTC 7 the collapse of WTC 1 started several car fires.

What Barry Jennings experienced on the 6th floor landing and the damage he described after entering into the eighth floor was caused by the collapse of WTC 1.

To put it another way, there would have been numerous witness accounts if what Jennings described occurred before either tower collapsed. But there is none since what Barry Jennings experienced was the collapse of WTC 1. Barry Jennings's timeline is wrong.

You make claims that are unsupported. You claim others should have heard the explosion. We have not seen the testimony of each person who was in WTC 7 on 9/11, so how could you know no one else heard?

We have thousands of reports of explosions from 9/11, how do you know none aren't refering to the explosion heard by Hess and Jennings?

You are wrong. You have no business implying 9/11 first responders Hess and Jennings are liars. You weren't there, they were. They told us what happened. If it doesn't fit into your worldview, then so be it, but please refraim from your unamerican slander against victims of 9/11.

[Oxigen]

You are wrong Galileo. There were no explosions inside WTC 7 before the collapses of the towers. If you had paid attention to all the witness accounts from inside WTC 7 that I have posted you will now that nothing happened to WTC 7 before the tower collapses. The collapse of WTC 2 broke several windows on the south face of WTC 7 and cut the power in the building. The collapse of WTC 1 caused severe structural damage to parts of WTC 7 while starting several fires in the building. Outside WTC 7 the collapse of WTC 1 started several car fires.

What Barry Jennings experienced on the 6th floor landing and the damage he described after entering into the eighth floor was caused by the collapse of WTC 1.

To put it another way, there would have been numerous witness accounts if what Jennings described occurred before either tower collapsed. But there is none since what Barry Jennings experienced was the collapse of WTC 1. Barry Jennings's timeline is wrong.

Tell Barry Jennings he is wrong.Afterall, you were all there and he wasn't.

[A W Smith]

We have thousands of reports of explosions from 9/11, how do you know none aren't refering to the explosion heard by Hess and Jennings?
you do? Then you wont have any problem listing your sources.
You are wrong. You have no business implying 9/11 first responders Hess and Jennings are liars. You weren't there, they were. They told us what happened. If it doesn't fit into your worldview, then so be it, but please refraim from your unamerican slander against victims of 9/11.
No one called them liars. appeal to emotion and patriotism?

[Alt+F4]

You make claims that are unsupported. You claim others should have heard the explosion. We have not seen the testimony of each person who was in WTC 7 on 9/11, so how could you know no one else heard?

We have thousands of reports of explosions from 9/11, how do you know none aren't refering to the explosion heard by Hess and Jennings?

You are wrong. You have no business implying 9/11 first responders Hess and Jennings are liars. You weren't there, they were. They told us what happened. If it doesn't fit into your worldview, then so be it, but please refraim from your unamerican slander against victims of 9/11.

I'm un-American if I think Barry Jennings might be mistaken (not lying)? You sound McCarthish.

[Thunder]

You make claims that are unsupported. You claim others should have heard the explosion. We have not seen the testimony of each person who was in WTC 7 on 9/11, so how could you know no one else heard?

We have thousands of reports of explosions from 9/11, how do you know none aren't refering to the explosion heard by Hess and Jennings?

You are wrong. You have no business implying 9/11 first responders Hess and Jennings are liars. You weren't there, they were. They told us what happened. If it doesn't fit into your worldview, then so be it, but please refraim from your unamerican slander against victims of 9/11.

God bless Barry Jennings for the amazing and heroic work he did on 9-11. He is an American hero. His actions may have saved hundreds if not thousands of lives.

But, unless Barry Jennings has X-Ray vision, there is absolutely no way he could have known the explosion he felt was not the collapse of the 1st tower or debree from the 2nd plane strike.

The question that must be asked of him is: why is he so insistant that his explosions occured before the collapses? what does he have to gain by suggesting his explosions were not from the collapses? is he somehow involved with the truth movemant in a financial or political way?

these are questions that Barry Jennings must answer. I suggest we confront him about this.

[~enigma~]

God bless Barry Jennings for the amazing and heroic work he did on 9-11. He is an American hero. His actions may have saved hundreds if not thousands of lives.

What exactly were his heroic actions?

[Alt+F4]

these are questions that Barry Jennings must answer. I suggest we confront him about this.

I agree that some clarification from Mr. Jennings would be helpful, but I don't think confronting him would be the right way to go about it.

It's obvious from Avery's 911blogger post that Mr. Jennings reads Prisonplanet. Perhaps he might want to post here, at the LCF or maybe he has a website/blog of his own.

[Norseman]

You make claims that are unsupported. You claim others should have heard the explosion. We have not seen the testimony of each person who was in WTC 7 on 9/11, so how could you know no one else heard?

We have thousands of reports of explosions from 9/11, how do you know none aren't refering to the explosion heard by Hess and Jennings?


No my claims are well supported by other witnesses, reports and images. The only thing you got is Barry Jennings's faulty timeline and faulty interoperation of events in the interview made by the Loose Change Crew.

At about 2:30 into this part of the interview Barry Jennings describes how he broke the window on the eight floor and looked outside and saw buses and police cars on fire. This was before the towers collapsed according to him.

VQY-ksiuwKU

Just to show you how wrong Barry Jennings are you should take a look at the following photographs.

The first one is Figure 5-13 in the FEMA report on WTC 7 (http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf). It shows the street at the east side of WTC 7 some time after the collapse of WTC 2, but before the collapse of WTC 1. An area Barry Jennings should have be able to see from the eight floor. Note that there is no burning vehicles at this time.

Next you should take a look at Figure 1-95 in the leaked draft report on WTC 7 named "WTC 7 chapter Pitts.doc" here (http://www.infowars.net/WTC7Report/). It shows the same scene after the collapse of WTC 1. Note all the burned out cars. In addition you can look at Figure 5-18 in NIST NCSTAR 1-8 (http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf), it shows a close up of the now burnt out fire truck from the picture in the FEMA report. Then take a look at at Figure 1-101 and 1-102 in the same report. In Figure 1-102 you can see the window that must have been broken by Barry Jennings. And both shows a burned out bus and police cars. Exactly as Barry Jennings describes. The fact is that Barry Jennings correctly describes the destruction caused by the collapse of WTC 1 outside WTC 7 on West Broadway.

Are you still going to claim that this occurred before both towers collapsed as Barry Jennings claims Galileo? If you still are, I have to point out that the burnt out bus outside 30 West Broadway in Figure 1-102 was not there when the second plane hit WTC 2. As you can see in this video filmed from the corner of West Broadway and Barclay Street when WTC 2 was hit. At 0:39 into the video there is clear shoot of 30 West Broadway at the corner of West Broadway and Barclay Street just after impact:
ZtuAuYf-Duc
So does vehicle fires outside WTC 7 could not have been started by debris from the impact of Flight 175 either. That leaves us with just WTC 1. Anything else would have been big news and widely reported.

As I have pointed out before the Michael Hess interview from 11th september 2001 contradicts parts of what Barry Jennings says. And it is fully consistent with the sequence of event placing Barry Jennings and Michael Hess on floor 23rd inside WTC 7 at the time of the collapse of WTC 2:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3835890#post3835890

[Norseman]

How can Barry Jennings claim that both buildings were standing while at the same time claim that there was nothing there at 5:00 into this part of the interview made by the Loose Change Crew:

kxUj6UgPODo

It does not make much sense does it.

[MaGZ]

No my claims are well supported by other witnesses, reports and images. The only thing you got is Barry Jennings's faulty timeline and faulty interoperation of events in the interview made by the Loose Change Crew.

At about 2:30 into this part of the interview Barry Jennings describes how he broke the window on the eight floor and looked outside and saw buses and police cars on fire. This was before the towers collapsed according to him.

VQY-ksiuwKU

Just to show you how wrong Barry Jennings are you should take a look at the following photographs.

The first one is Figure 5-13 in the FEMA report on WTC 7 (http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf). It shows the street at the east side of WTC 7 some time after the collapse of WTC 2, but before the collapse of WTC 1. An area Barry Jennings should have be able to see from the eight floor. Note that there is no burning vehicles at this time.

Next you should take a look at Figure 1-95 in the leaked draft report on WTC 7 named "WTC 7 chapter Pitts.doc" here (http://www.infowars.net/WTC7Report/). It shows the same scene after the collapse of WTC 1. Note all the burned out cars. In addition you can look at Figure 5-18 in NIST NCSTAR 1-8 (http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf), it shows a close up of the now burnt out fire truck from the picture in the FEMA report. Then take a look at at Figure 1-101 and 1-102 in the same report. In Figure 1-102 you can see the window that must have been broken by Barry Jennings. And both shows a burned out bus and police cars. Exactly as Barry Jennings describes. The fact is that Barry Jennings correctly describes the destruction caused by the collapse of WTC 1 outside WTC 7 on West Broadway.

Are you still going to claim that this occurred before both towers collapsed as Barry Jennings claims Galileo? If you still are, I have to point out that the burnt out bus outside 30 West Broadway in Figure 1-102 was not there when the second plane hit WTC 2. As you can see in this video filmed from the corner of West Broadway and Barclay Street when WTC 2 was hit. At 0:39 into the video there is clear shoot of 30 West Broadway at the corner of West Broadway and Barclay Street just after impact:
ZtuAuYf-Duc
So does vehicle fires outside WTC 7 could not have been started by debris from the impact of Flight 175 either. That leaves us with just WTC 1. Anything else would have been big news and widely reported.

As I have pointed out before the Michael Hess interview from 11th september 2001 contradicts parts of what Barry Jennings says. And it is fully consistent with the sequence of event placing Barry Jennings and Michael Hess on floor 23rd inside WTC 7 at the time of the collapse of WTC 2:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3835890#post3835890

I haven’t gone though all you presented here yet, but I will say there were vehicle fires on Vessey Street before the collapse of the towers. In the National Geographic documentary in footage taken by Jack Taliercio when he was cowering under the cover of WTC 4 and filming the towers burning and people falling, there is a shot across the plaza of a car burning.

I will note your claim no vehicles could have caught fire due to the crash of Flight 175.

I have an idea how vehicles caught fire on Vessey.

[Thunder]

It should also be pointed out that Barry Jennings says he walked over bodies, but didnt actually see them. Why this is such an issue is beyond me. Clearly there were bodies in WTC 7, but they were of victims from outside the building brought in.

But now truthers are in a pretty pickle. They will have to now call Barry Jennings and several high and low ranking FDNY personnel "liars" or claim the NWO somehow bribed them, threatened them, or implanted a mind control chip.

Muwwwaahahaha!!!

[MaGZ]

It should also be pointed out that Barry Jennings says he walked over bodies, but didnt actually see them. Why this is such an issue is beyond me. Clearly there were bodies in WTC 7, but they were of victims from outside the building brought in.

But now truthers are in a pretty pickle. They will have to now call Barry Jennings and several high and low ranking FDNY personnel "liars" or claim the NWO somehow bribed them, threatened them, or implanted a mind control chip.

Muwwwaahahaha!!!

I agree with you there were people killed on Vessey Street and there bodies brought into the lobby of WTC 7.

[Norseman]

I haven’t gone though all you presented here yet, but I will say there were vehicle fires on Vessey Street before the collapse of the towers. In the National Geographic documentary in footage taken by Jack Taliercio when he was cowering under the cover of WTC 4 and filming the towers burning and people falling, there is a shot across the plaza of a car burning.

I will note your claim no vehicles could have caught fire due to the crash of Flight 175.

I have an idea how vehicles caught fire on Vessey.

As should be evident from the context of my post I was not talking about vehicles in general around WTC. I was talking about some specific vehicles outside WTC 7 along West Broadway between the intersection of Vesey Street and Park Place. The vehicles in question were clearly not on fire after the collapse of WTC 2. Or they were not present when Flight 175 hit WTC 2. Therefore the vehicles in question clearly were set on fire by the collapse of WTC 1 that scattered debris north along West Broadway.

That vehicles elsewhere caught fire as consequence of the aircraft impacts is a well know fact.

[Norseman]

That just doesn’t make sense. To be trapped on all of the 8th floor, in an area as big as a football field, with plenty of stairwells in the center of the building to exit, just to me makes no sense.

MaGZ, in view of the fact that Barry Jennings clearly indicates that he got into the 8th floor I wonder if you are still maintaining your original theory, as described in your posts earlier in this thread?

In "The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Third Tower" by BBC he describes at 13:45 into the video how he walked to the other side of the building and noticed that that part of the building was gone:
9072062020229593250

(The collapse of WTC 1 caused severe structural damage to the south face of WTC 7 in the area of the south west corner, including the 8th floor. The damage is described in the leaked draft report on WTC 7 named "WTC 7 chapter Pitts.doc" found here. (http://www.infowars.net/WTC7Report/). Or here at: http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm)

In the uncut interview made by the Loose Change crew he describes at 2:15 that they went into the eight floor. He asked Hess to check if the telephones were working while he broke the windows with a fire extinguisher:
VQY-ksiuwKU

Then at 6:35 in the second part of the interview he describes how he asked Hess to go under the desk to pray, because he feared that they were not going the get out of there alive:
kxUj6UgPODo

[Norseman]

It should also be pointed out that Barry Jennings says he walked over bodies, but didnt actually see them. Why this is such an issue is beyond me. Clearly there were bodies in WTC 7, but they were of victims from outside the building brought in.


Another plausible explanation could be that bodies from WTC 1 were thrown into the lobby of WTC 7 when WTC 1 collapsed. Any bodies inside the lobby of WTC 7 would have been covered with layers of dust. I guess you would have had to look closely to see them.

A witness on the third floor in the lobby of WTC 7 claimed she saw this during the collapse of WTC 2:
Later I asked Diane what made her scream. She said she saw bodies come flying through the air.
Source: Responding to Horror - Operating Engineers in Action at the World Trade Centre Disaster (http://www.iuoeiettc.org/Old%20files/Old%20PDF%20files/Responding%20to%20Horror_WTC.pdf). Page 28.

[johnny karate]

Tell Barry Jennings he is wrong.Afterall, you were all there and he wasn't.

So I take it that you feel that witness testimony is absolute and should not be questioned? Which of course means you agree with members of the FDNY that were on scene at WTC7 when they reported out of control fires and substantial damage that led to an inevitable collapse. I'm glad we got that settled.

[Norseman]

How can Barry Jennings claim that both buildings were standing while at the same time claim that there was nothing there at 5:00 into this part of the interview made by the Loose Change Crew:

kxUj6UgPODo

It does not make much sense does it.

I have posted a follow up to this post here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3856155#post3856155

[MaGZ]

I think Barry Jennings timeline is basically correct. He experienced an explosion in a stairwell on the 6th floor near the time of the crash of the second plane. He and Hess escape from the stairwell and are trapped on the 8th floor and move to the north side of WTC 7 because of the ensuing fires which was started by the explosion. Apparently the initial explosion set off a chain reaction of oil fueled transformers exploding and spreading the fires in WTC 7. Jennings states he heard explosion while on floor 8. These were the transformers exploding. WTC 7 was on fire after the crash of the second plane. Photos taken from across the Hudson River confirms this.

[T.A.M.]

1. I have seen no such photos.
2. Provide them, or a link, or I will assume it is crap.
3. I hope you are not mistaking smoke from elsewhere, or fire reflections in WTC7 windows.

TAM:)

[MaGZ]

1. I have seen no such photos.
2. Provide them, or a link, or I will assume it is crap.
3. I hope you are not mistaking smoke from elsewhere, or fire reflections in WTC7 windows.

TAM:)

Here are a series of photos showing the lower floors of WTC 7 on fire with both towers standing. The fires appear in most of the photos, so it can not be considered an anomaly or a trick of lighting.

http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/index.shtm

[T.A.M.]

really? Is that it? A few photos taken from miles away, so far that you can barely differentiate the windows of WTC7, and a few have what looks to me like reflections of light on them?

That is your Proof?

Why am I not surprised?

TAM:)

[WildCat]

Here are a series of photos showing the lower floors of WTC 7 on fire with both towers standing.
None of those photos show WTC 7 on fire prior to collapse.

[quicknthedead]

MagZ's non-proof photos and his incomprehensible Jenning's timeline brings to mind that fine paper posted recently by Ryan Mackey.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MagZ suffer from severe "Irreducible Delusion"? :popcorn1

[~enigma~]

MagZ's non-proof photos and his incomprehensible Jenning's timeline brings to mind that fine paper posted recently by Ryan Mackey.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MagZ suffer from severe "Irreducible Delusion"? :popcorn1I wouldn't call it that...

[Miragememories]

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

MM

[johnny karate]

For those who remain confident that parsing and applying personal interpretation of someone else's words will somehow prove 9/11 was an inside job, I would like to point out that it doesn't.

[LashL]

<snipped> "As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."


How many minutes do you suppose it took for Jennings and Hess to realize that the elevator they were attempting to board was not working?

How long do you suppose it took before Hess went to look for a stairwell, as Jennings says he did?

Do you suppose that Jennings continued to wait for the elevator while Hess went to look for a stairwell? That's the impression that I get from what Jennings says, but as much of what he says appears to be inaccurate, who knows?

In any event, how long do you suppose it took before the both of them got to a stairwell and started making their way down?

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

Well, no. Simple subtraction tells us that it was 30 minutes between the time of the first collapse and the time of the second collapse, during which these two did several things, including making their way from the 23rd floor down to the 6th floor. That you have deliberately chosen to leave out several things during that 30 minute period does not make it "NIST's theory" but your own, obviously flawed, theory.

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

No, NIST isn't saying that. You are, by deliberately leaving things out and adding your own personal incredulity for purposes of making it appear to be an unusual time frame when, in fact, it is not.

How long do you think it takes to travel down 17 flights of stairs, in the dark, in a damaged building?

I certainly do not profess to know precisely, but I do know that throughout the several years that I worked in the 60+ storey Commerce Court West building at King and Bay, it took a good 30-35 minutes to make it down the stairs from my 26th floor office. That's with me being significantly younger and in far better physical condition than Jennings; that's with me knowing exactly where the closest staircase was (which was only ~30 seconds from my office); that's with me knowing exactly the path to take; that's with me knowing all of the crossover floors; that's with me knowing exactly where I was going in a building I was very familiar with; and that's with the building being undamaged, with full lights and full power*.

*Except for that one time on August 14, 2003 when the largest power outage in North American history hit several U.S. states and the province of Ontario, including all of Toronto and my building - it took longer to evacuate that time.

So, personally, I don't find the 30 minute time frame surprising in any way, except for, perhaps, its speediness in the circumstances. Perhaps the speediness is attributable to the sense of urgency they were experiencing at the time, although one has to admit that Jennings' account seems to exaggerate the events compared to Hess' account, which seems to downplay the events. So, perhaps it's a wash.

Either way, your suggestion that 30 minutes for the entirety of their experiences from the time of the first collapse to the second is somehow "too long" for the events that they describe seems quite baseless and unsupported to me.

[Galileo]

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

MM

Good work. NIST is confused. Very confused.

[Miragememories]

<snipped> "As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

<unsnipped> = from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

"With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there."

Originally removed in the interest of brevity. The omission does not create any misrepresentation of the NIST statement used.
"How many minutes do you suppose it took for Jennings and Hess to realize that the elevator they were attempting to board was not working?"
Maybe it would require a significant amount of time for you to determine that an elevator was dead, but most people who have used elevators most of their lives can quickly tell if an elevator is out of service. With the sense of urgency that exists in an emergency evacuation, I would be even more inclined to quit and find the stairs. So my answer would be seconds and not "minutes".
"How long do you suppose it took before Hess went to look for a stairwell, as Jennings says he did?"
Now you are leaving the NIST story and accepting a portion from the Barry Jenning's LCFC interview. I assume you're doing this because the NIST story does not indicate such a delay?

At any rate, if you look at the WTC7 floor plan, it's clear that the stairwells were very close to the elevators, as they often are.
"Do you suppose that Jennings continued to wait for the elevator while Hess went to look for a stairwell? That's the impression that I get from what Jennings says, but as much of what he says appears to be inaccurate, who knows?

In any event, how long do you suppose it took before the both of them got to a stairwell and started making their way down?"

Again you are using elements from two different stories which makes it impossible to answer the question. The exact 30 minute timeline is based strictly on NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not taken from Barry's testimony in the LCFC interview.

Those two versions, one from a person who was there, Barry Jennings, and the other, from NIST based for all I know on pure speculation to fit their timeline, are not in substantive agreement with each other.

"Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors)."
"Well, no. Simple subtraction tells us that it was 30 minutes between the time of the first collapse and the time of the second collapse, during which these two did several things, including making their way from the 23rd floor down to the 6th floor. That you have deliberately chosen to leave out several things during that 30 minute period does not make it "NIST's theory" but your own, obviously flawed, theory."

I based my statement on what NIST stated in NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not on Barry's statement. Obviously a certain amount of time was consumed before Barry Jennings placed his first step down the WTC7 staircase.

So much time, that when combined with his descent time added up to 30 minutes?

I don't see how that would be possible given that neither he nor Michael Hess were injured, extremely overweight or otherwise encumbered.

I tested my unhurried 17 story descent time in the building where I work and got a time of less than 200 seconds. The NIST time was 1800 seconds. That leaves a lot of time wasted wandering around looking for the lighted EXIT sign outside staircase.

"To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!"
"No, NIST isn't saying that. You are, by deliberately leaving things out and adding your own personal incredulity for purposes of making it appear to be an unusual time frame when, in fact, it is not."

I said I was putting what NIST said into perspective. Even if we cut the time in half and give them a ridiculous 15 emergency minutes to punch elevator buttons and walk to the stairwell EXIT, we are left with an unrealistic period of time for them to make their descent.

The things you accuse me of leaving out are magnified and distorted by your deliberate use of two stories that are clearly out of sync with each other.

One story has no reason to be false (Barry Jennings) while the other (NIST's) most definitely does.

"How long do you think it takes to travel down 17 flights of stairs, in the dark, in a damaged building?"
NIST said "the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed".
NIST didn't say the power went out.

Barry didn't say the lights were out.

The stairwells in my building are very well lighted as are the emergency exit signs located at every hallway exit.

"I certainly do not profess to know precisely, but I do know that throughout the several years that I worked in the 60+ storey Commerce Court West building at King and Bay, it took a good 30-35 minutes to make it down the stairs from my 26th floor office. That's with me being significantly younger and in far better physical condition than Jennings; that's with me knowing exactly where the closest staircase was (which was only ~30 seconds from my office); that's with me knowing exactly the path to take; that's with me knowing all of the crossover floors; that's with me knowing exactly where I was going in a building I was very familiar with; and that's with the building being undamaged, with full lights and full power*.

And you just happen to have those non-urgent timelines conveniently recorded? Not to mention 26 floors vs. 17 floors of descent. What can I say other than you must have been significantly younger like you said, possibly 3-4 years old or extremely unfit? My son ascended the CN Tower in 14 minutes.

"So, personally, I don't find the 30 minute time frame surprising in any way, except for, perhaps, its speediness in the circumstances."

Too funny.

"Perhaps the speediness is attributable to the sense of urgency they were experiencing at the time,although one has to admit that Jennings' account seems to exaggerate the events compared to Hess' account, which seems to downplay the events. So, perhaps it's a wash."


And what Michael Hess account might that be?
Source please!

[i]"Either way, your suggestion that 30 minutes for the entirety of their experiences from the time of the first collapse to the second is somehow "too long" for the events that they describe seems quite baseless and unsupported to me."[i]

Who is "they"?

According to Barry Jennings, he and Michael Hess were back on the 8th floor when the Twin Towers collapsed making NIST's 30 minute timeline nothing more than a partially fictional account designed to avoid their inability to explain the 6th floor explosion that occurred [B]prior to the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers.

You have failed to present a convincing counter argument, and I find your merging of content from those two conflicting stories to be extremely duplicitous, especially for a lawyer.

MM

[LashL]

Maybe it would require a significant amount of time for you to determine that an elevator was dead, but most people who have used elevators most of their lives can quickly tell if an elevator is out of service.

I had almost forgotten how snide and obnoxious your posts often are. Thanks for the reminder.

Now you are leaving the NIST story and accepting a portion from the Barry Jenning's LCFC interview. I assume you're doing this because the NIST story does not indicate such a delay?

You should avoid making such baseless assumptions. It leads you to leap to faulty conclusions.

NIST was not giving a play by play but rather a summary. There is, of course, no way of knowing how many of the details of Jennings' varying public accounts are accurate, but NIST based its summary on its interviews with Jennings and Hess.

Again you are using elements from two different stories which makes it impossible to answer the question. The exact 30 minute timeline is based strictly on NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not taken from Barry's testimony in the LCFC interview.

I am well aware of the fact that the time estimate comes from the NIST report. The same estimate that is based upon NIST's interviews with Jennings and Hess.

Those two versions, one from a person who was there, Barry Jennings, and the other, from NIST based for all I know on pure speculation to fit their timeline, are not in substantive agreement with each other.

Again, NIST's summary is based upon its interviews with Jennings and Hess. If you think that NIST has misrepresented them, perhaps you should take it up with them.

One story has no reason to be false (Barry Jennings) while the other (NIST's) most definitely does.

What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?


And you just happen to have those non-urgent timelines conveniently recorded? Not to mention 26 floors vs. 17 floors of descent.

I know the time it took because I participated in numerous fire drills during the years that I worked there, the TFS timed us, reported on our evacuation times from various floors, and made recommendations to improve them.

What can I say other than you must have been significantly younger like you said, possibly 3-4 years old or extremely unfit?

Now, you're just being rude and obnoxious again, as well as reading-challenged. As I said, I was younger and far more physically fit than Jennings, and a 26 storey descent in CCW took in excess of 30 minutes. You really should try to control your snideness.

And what Michael Hess account might that be?
Source please!

If your post wasn't so rude and obnoxious, I might be inclined to do your homework for you, but in light of your behaviour, I'll just go back to ignoring you.

According to Barry Jennings, he and Michael Hess were back on the 8th floor when the Twin Towers collapsed making NIST's 30 minute timeline nothing more than a partially fictional account designed to avoid their inability to explain the 6th floor explosion that occurred prior to the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers.

Again, if you think that NIST has misrepresented Jennings and Hess, you should take it up with them. I haven't heard either of them complain about being misrepresented, have you?

You have failed to present a convincing counter argument,

Frankly, you have presented no argument to counter. I was merely commenting on the timing as being entirely plausible.

and I find your merging of content from those two conflicting stories to be extremely duplicitous,especially for a lawyer.


And... PLONK.

[MaGZ]

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

MM

Excellent point MM. The entire timeline NIST created is absurd. The explosion Jennings and Hess experienced was near the time of the second plane crash. This initial explosion likely caused the oil filled transformers to explode causing the landing on the 6th floor to give way. Jennings and Hess had to move to the North side of WTC 7 on the 8th floor to escape the fires that were developing on the south side of the building. Jennings knew when the Twin Towers came down because he clearly states his rescuers had to run for cover twice before they got out of WTC 7.

[SDC]

So, who is right? Jennings (as he spoke on the BBC), or Miragememories plus Magz? Will there be a public confrontation?

What a team.

[MaGZ]

I would like to see a written transcript of all the interviews Jennings and Hess gave. So far I have read only the LC transcript of Jennings. By closely analyzing their remarks new information my be discovered.

[Miragememories]

"Maybe it would require a significant amount of time for you to determine that an elevator was dead, but most people who have used elevators most of their lives can quickly tell if an elevator is out of service."

"I had almost forgotten how snide and obnoxious your posts often are. Thanks for the reminder."

Okay I take it back.

Apparently it is very difficult to determine that an elevator is not operational and maybe in energy saver mode or something.

""How long do you suppose it took before Hess went to look for a stairwell, as Jennings says he did?"

"Now you are leaving the NIST story and accepting a portion from the Barry Jenning's LCFC interview. I assume you're doing this because the NIST story does not indicate such a delay?"

"You should avoid making such baseless assumptions. It leads you to leap to faulty conclusions.

NIST was not giving a play by play but rather a summary. There is, of course, no way of knowing how many of the details of Jennings' varying public accounts are accurate, but NIST based its summary on its interviews with Jennings and Hess."

It's interesting that NIST's "summary" of Barry Jenning's testimony introduces so much of their own unsubstantiated opinion while totally ignoring key testimony which contradicts that opinion.

What exactly is NIST providing a summary of since they certainly aren't summing up the important points that Barry Jennings made?

They took a key witness and effectively ignored his testimony when it deviated from the story they wished to promote.

"Again you are using elements from two different stories which makes it impossible to answer the question. The exact 30 minute timeline is based strictly on NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not taken from Barry's testimony in the LCFC interview."

"I am well aware of the fact that the time estimate comes from the NIST report. The same estimate that is based upon NIST's interviews with Jennings and Hess."

Having read the distortion and dishonesty NIST applied to the Barry Jenning's testimony, I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently with Michael Hess's testimony.

Based on your reasoning, since NIST hasn't published their interviews with Jennings and Hess, they are free to sum them up any way they wish, regardless of how much contradiction they introduce.

"Those two versions, one from a person who was there, Barry Jennings, and the other, from NIST based for all I know on pure speculation to fit their timeline, are not in substantive agreement with each other."

"Again, NIST's summary is based upon its interviews with Jennings and Hess. If you think that NIST has misrepresented them, perhaps you should take it up with them."

Hmm.

Let me get this straight.

You claim to be a seasoned lawyer.

You have read NIST's summary regarding Barry Jenning's testimony.

And are familiar (I'm assuming here) with Barry Jenning's full LCFC interview.

If so, you must be aware that Barry gave contrary testimony as to where he was at the time of each tower's collapse and he explains why he is justified in being so certain that he experienced both collapses at a time and location completely different from what NIST claims.

Yet you apparently do not think NIST has misrepresented Barry's testimony in a fashion that suits NIST's timeline?

Is it any wonder that thinking people feel quite justified in questioning the validity of NIST's many WTC conclusions when they show so little respect for eyewitness testimony that contradicts their theories.

"One story has no reason to be false (Barry Jennings) while the other (NIST's) most definitely does."

"What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?"

Barry Jennings provided testimony that if NIST were to accept as valid,
they would have a problem.

A big problem.

Barry Jenning's testimony undermines NIST's working theory of what occurred at WTC7 on 9/11.

"And you just happen to have those non-urgent timelines conveniently recorded? Not to mention 26 floors vs. 17 floors of descent."

"I know the time it took because I participated in numerous fire drills during the years that I worked there, the TFS timed us, reported on our evacuation times from various floors, and made recommendations to improve them."

They actually timed you specifically without the delays inherent in joining a crowd of people during an evacuation?

They noted your 30 second journey to the familiar stairwell and your 30-35 minute crowded descent of 26 floors vs. the 17 floor descent Barry faced in an empty stairwell?

We have those drills twice a year and with everyone off loading from the many floors below you, it's quite understandable that you would face delays far more significant than that caused by figuring out that an elevator was not working or where the next illuminated EXIT sign was.

"What can I say other than you must have been significantly younger like you said, possibly 3-4 years old or extremely unfit?"

"Now, you're just being rude and obnoxious again, as well as reading-challenged. As I said, I was younger and far more physically fit than Jennings, and a 26 storey descent in CCW took in excess of 30 minutes. You really should try to control your snideness."

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Must I collect and quote the many "obnoxious and rude" gems that you've posted?

I've seen Barry's picture and while he is overweight, I have no idea about his conditioning. Considering what he went through, he held up remarkably well.

In the safety of your anonymity, you can pretend to be an olympic athlete if you wish. Who knows the truth of the matter.

"And what Michael Hess account might that be?
Source please!"

"If your post wasn't so rude and obnoxious, I might be inclined to do your homework for you, but in light of your behaviour, I'll just go back to ignoring you."

Too funny.

I translate that as you have no source and since I called your bluff you are attempting an escape using bluster.

MM

[SDC]

Any luck constructing a positive narrative, yet, Miragememories? I look forward to learning what you think actually did happen.

[eeyore1954]

Originally Posted by LashL
"What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?"


MM's reply
Barry Jennings provided testimony that if NIST were to accept as valid,
they would have a problem.

A big problem.

Barry Jenning's testimony undermines NIST's working theory of what occurred at WTC7 on 9/11.

So the scientists at NIST are willing to coverup the fact that there were explosions in WTC 7 before the collapses.

MM says
Having read the distortion and dishonesty NIST applied to the Barry Jenning's testimony, I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently with Michael Hess's testimony.
How do you know the testimony Barry Jennings gave to NIST is not different than what was gotten by Loose Change.
you do not know what testimony they got from Hess. but didn't he say they left when the lights went out? I do not know this for certain. Which was right after the first collapse.
NIST also has to base their timeline on information they have from others about when the OEM was evacuated. Around 9:30 or so. Based upon this it is very likely if Jennings got to the OEM found it locked , went down to get police to go up and unlock it for him it was close to 9:45. Were in the OEM for a while , etc. It is based upon all of this information that NIST must base their timeline.

I would suggest to Dylan Avery if he really is interested in the truth he should seek out other witnesses who were in the OEM/OEC find out when they evacuated and see how that affects the validity of the timeline given by Mr Jennings. But instead it appears to me that as soon as Dylan Avery finds a witness he is able to get to agree with his beliefs he doesn't want to go further.

[Miragememories]

""What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?"

"Barry Jennings provided testimony that if NIST were to accept as valid,
they would have a problem.

A big problem.

Barry Jenning's testimony undermines NIST's working theory of what occurred at WTC7 on 9/11."

"[I] So the scientists at NIST are willing to coverup the fact that there were explosions in WTC 7 before the collapses."

I have no idea who at NIST interviewed those eyewitnesses.

"Having read the distortion and dishonesty NIST applied to the Barry Jenning's testimony, I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently with Michael Hess's testimony."

"How do you know the testimony Barry Jennings gave to NIST is not different than what was gotten by Loose Change."

Barry Jennings gave an interview to News 7 on 9/11.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by News 12.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by the 911 Commission.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by NIST.
In mid2007 he gave an interview to Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas.
In February 2008 he gave an interview to the BBC.

In none of the publicly available interviews (3), has Barry wavered on the
critical aspects of his story.

"you do not know what testimony they got from Hess. but didn't he say they left when the lights went out?"

No he did not.

He said he left after someone on the phone instructed him to.

"I do not know this for certain. Which was right after the first collapse."

That is pure conjecture on NIST's part.

Barry Jennings insists that the first collapse occurred sometime after he returned to the 8th floor.

"NIST also has to base their timeline on information they have from others about when the OEM was evacuated. Around 9:30 or so."

Barry Jennings said that he and Michael Hess arrived at WTC7 before the 2nd crash at 0903.

NIST said that most of WTC7 was already evacuated before the 2nd crash at 0903.

The 911 Commission said the the OEM EOC evacuation order came around 0930.

The NIST said the the OEM EOC evacuation order came around 0944.

OEM Commissioner John Odermatt, said that after the first plane hit the WTC, he left only two staffers at the command center.

"Based upon this it is very likely if Jennings got to the OEM found it locked , went down to get police to go up and unlock it for him it was close to 9:45. Were in the OEM for a while , etc. It is based upon all of this information that NIST must base their timeline."

Barry Jennings said that when he and Michael Hess first arrived at WTC7, "there were police all in the lobby..They showed me the way to the elevator."

Then, very soon after, having found the EOC was locked, Jennings and Hess returned to the WTC7 ground floor lobby, yet Jennings didn't indicate any dramatic change in activity, which would be quite odd if the 2nd crash had occurred during that brief interval.

NYPD and WTC7 Security simply escorted them back up to the 23rd floor EOC and unlocked that facility.

This suggests to me that they must have left in the freight elevator (2nd trip) just before the second plane struck.

If as NIST insists, they arrived much later (after 0944), they would have been well aware, given their close proximity, that WTC2 had been struck, and that the escalating situation was far more than the originally suspected single Cessna crash event.

But according to Barry Jenning's statement, they didn't know this until after they got to the WTC7.

MM

[MaGZ]

The Michael Hess interview with UPN news after his rescue from WTC 7.

http://911blogger.com/node/10425

[Kent1]

The Michael Hess interview with UPN news after his rescue from WTC 7.

http://911blogger.com/node/10425

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. An hour and a half from 11:58.57 (interview time) puts the time at 10:28 the exact minute of the WTC collapse.

[Galileo]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. An hour and a half from 11:58.57 (interview time) puts the time at 10:28 the exact minute of the WTC collapse.

Estimating times is very difficult under stressful situations, you should cut him a little slack. An easier way to estimate chronologies, is to frame them around significant events, like plane impacts, huge interior explosions, and building collapses. That is what Jennings and Hess have done in setting to huge interior explosion to be after the 2nd plane hit and before the 1st building collapse.

[CTM]

I'm not going to watch Jenning's vido over again but doesn't he say towards the end when he was talking about having to get out and away from the building that it would be a big problem to him because he had a problem with his knees and difficulty in walking? If he had some kind of arthritis in his knees that would slow him down a lot in going down stairs. I have this problem in one of my knees and can only go one step at a time with my affected knee leading so that it doesn't have to bend and cause pain. I'm pretty sure he said "knees" because I remember relating this to my situation. If both of his knees were giving him trouble it would be even slower. If the lights were out that would make him even more careful because he wouldn't want to risk a fall. I was in a highrise apartment building once when the power went off and my husband went down the stairs to the manager's office to ckeck out what was happening. He said it was total darkness in the stairwell and produced a kind of disorienting feeling.

[Dave Rogers]

Estimating times is very difficult under stressful situations, you should cut him a little slack.

Could you please explain that to some of your fellow conspiracy theorists? I've been getting the impression that the current official truther position is that stress enhances clarity of recollection, meaning that timings that disagree with our knowledge of what happened on 9-11 are therefore reliable to the second. Now you're saying that timings that disagree with the conspiracy theory may be more than half an hour out because stress makes timings difficult to estimate. Maybe you should sort out this disagreement within your movement.

Dave

[eeyore1954]

MirageMemories
Zarillo's testimony has to put the evacuation of the OEM around 9:30 .
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110161.PDF


So Jennings had to arrive after that.

I think Catalano talks about being in the lobby after the evacuation of the building. They didn't notice any explosions or fires .

http://www.iuoeiettc.org/Old%20files/Old%20PDF%20files/Responding%20to%20Horror_WTC.pdf

Is there any fire department mention of fires before the collapses in WTC 7. you would think if the fire department had tried to rescue Jennings before the collapse but had to run away there would have been reports of the fires.
There is no photo evidence of fires before the collapse

There are others who were in the building around 9:30 and later no mention of explosions.

I am pretty sure Mr Hess says he they left after the power went out but the video is no longer there.

All evidence points to Mr Jennings timeline being incorrect except for his. The logical conclusion is he was mistaken.

[Miragememories]

"I'm not going to watch Jenning's vido over again but doesn't he say towards the end when he was talking about having to get out and away from the building that it would be a big problem to him because he had a problem with his knees and difficulty in walking? If he had some kind of arthritis in his knees that would slow him down a lot in going down stairs. I have this problem in one of my knees and can only go one step at a time with my affected knee leading so that it doesn't have to bend and cause pain. I'm pretty sure he said "knees" because I remember relating this to my situation. If both of his knees were giving him trouble it would be even slower. If the lights were out that would make him even more careful because he wouldn't want to risk a fall. I was in a highrise apartment building once when the power went off and my husband went down the stairs to the manager's office to ckeck out what was happening. He said it was total darkness in the stairwell and produced a kind of disorienting feeling."


Barry Jennings:
"When we reached the 8th..uh, the 6th floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way.
There was an explosion.
And the landing 'gave way'.
And we were, I, was left there hanging.
I had to climb back up.
And now I had to walk back up to the 8th floor."

46 year old Barry went through a lot that day.

No where has he said he had a chronic knee problem.

Certainly, given his weight and all he went through that day, it's not too surprising that he might complain of sore knees.

MM

[~enigma~]

No where has he said he had a chronic knee problem.Nobody but you used the word chronic. Enjoy building strawmen much? BTW, look again at this part of the interview...

But before that, this big giant police officer came to me.
And he says "you have to run!"
I said "I can't run my knees are swollen."
He said "you'll have to get on your knees and crawl than!"

BTW, guess who transcribed this? Wonder why he conveniently forgot about it?

[eeyore1954]

Miragememories
In these other interviews does he mention being trapped before the collapses? Maybe he does I do not know.
Barry Jennings gave an interview to News 7 on 9/11.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by News 12.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by the 911 Commission.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by NIST.
In mid2007 he gave an interview to Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas.
In February 2008 he gave an interview to the BBC.

In none of the publicly available interviews (3), has Barry wavered on the
critical aspects of his story.

Originally Posted by eeyore1954
"you do not know what testimony they got from Hess. but didn't he say they left when the lights went out?"

No he did not.

He said he left after someone on the phone instructed him to.Do you have any links to Mr Hess' testimony?

[Miragememories]

"Zarillo's testimony has to put the evacuation of the OEM around 9:30."

Well Richard Zarrillo himself makes statements warning the interviewer that his time estimates are quite uncertain.

Extracts from EMT Richard Zarrillo's WTC Task Force Interview October 25, 2001:

pg.3
EMT Richard Zarrillo:
"I'm not sure of the exact time, but I believe as we were coming over the Brooklyn Bridge was when the second plane hit the second tower."

pg.5
EMT Richard Zarrillo:
"Again, times are a little fuzzy initially for me."

pg.7
EMT Richard Zarrillo:
"Again, it's sketchy with time, but it may have been anywhere from ten to 20 minutes by the time we found an emergency exit to get out of the building."

pg.13
Interviewer Question: "After the second collapse?"

EMT Richard Zarrillo: "Well, if I say 15 minutes from the time we
got to that school building and started walking towards Chelsea, maybe ten, 15 minutes had passed by the time that --"

Interviewer Question: "Half an hour?"

EMT Richard Zarrillo: "Again, I do apologize for that."

pg.14
EMT Richard Zarrillo: "Time wasn't --"

Interviewer Comment: "There's no perception of time."

EMT Richard Zarrillo: "It's still very surreal."

Zarrillo indicated that he and Captain Abdo Nahmod were in the OEM EOC for as little as 5 minutes before getting the order to evacuate.

His questionable memory and the rough time estimates, if accepted, could have
him leaving the OEM EOC as early as ~0910-0915.

"So Jennings had to arrive after that."

It would appear that Zarrillo and Jennings were not there at the same time.

How is it possible for Barry Jennings to have arrived at WTC7 shortly after, say 0920 and not know about the dramatic Boeing 767 crash into WTC2, which occurred 17 minutes earlier?

For the 'sake of argument', we'll assume Barry was as you suggest, some how 'mistaken', and that the crash occurred earlier than he thought. That his actual arrival at WTC7 was around 0920 and not prior to 0903 as he believed.

Barry said he made a few phone calls during which time he was told he must leave immediately.

Say we allow him 10 minutes.

To accept the NIST version of what transpired, we have to allow him 39 minutes, which NIST says puts him outside at the 23rd floor elevator in time for the WTC2 collapse.

Also, if you accept the NIST version of where Jennings and Hess were when WTC1 collapsed, it would be 1 hour and 8 minutes from the time of their arrival at the OEM EOC to the time they arrive at the 6th floor stairwell landing, 17 floors below.

Of course NIST is working with their own unexplained estimates that declare the OEM EOC was evacuated at 0944 which 'pigeon holes' the Jennings and Hess arrival at approximately 0949 (allowing for evacuation), 10 minutes before the WTC2 collapse.

"I think Catalano talks about being in the lobby after the evacuation of the building. They didn't notice any explosions or fires."

Reading through Catalano's statement a few things immediately catch my attention.

First of all, it's important to note that his statements and others, are part of the fully edited publication RESPONDING TO HORROR, with all the interview material completely cleaned up. The interviews are not 'raw' and they are not told in their entirety.

He states that he and his men were on the 47th floor when WTC2 was hit, and that
they descended via the crowded staircase to the 3rd floor lobby (44 floors down) very quickly.

Mike Catalano:
"The staircase was packed. People were evacuating on their own. It was very orderly. We had fire drills every month. They didn’t evacuate the whole building; they evacuated to certain areas. People knew where to go and they were going. We made it down in minutes. Now we’re at the third floor lobby."

Mike Catalano:
"I met up with our head of security, Pete Mulroy — he went back in the
building after the towers collapsed and got trapped in there and they had to
bring in a hook-and-ladder fire truck to get him out."

[After WTC2 collapses.]

"I am pretty sure Mr Hess says he they left after the power went out but the video is no longer there."

Mike Catalano:
"We went up one floor, to the cafeteria on the
4th floor. There are windows everywhere but you can’t see out them
because a cloud has engulfed the building. It’s pitch black.
All of a sudden lights come on. Nine generators all start. They have 30
minutes of fuel to run."

Mike Catalano:
"I said, “We’re not dying in here.” That’s when we decided. We
wrapped our faces with wet towels and we went out the staircase with all the
smoke. We couldn’t get to the other one."

"All evidence points to Mr Jennings timeline being incorrect except for his. The logical conclusion is he was mistaken."

The logical conclusion is that he was somewhat mistaken, but by as much as 50 minutes, almost a whole hour, as NIST suggests?

MM

[CTM]

I went back and looked at the video again today. At 7:13 he talks about his swollen knees. At about 7:30 he says he that as he was walking away to safety he was looking for an ambulance for his knees.

[eeyore1954]

Did the firefighters who went to rescue Mr Jennings ever mention that the WTC 7 was on fire before the collapses. Did anyone else notice it was on fire before the collapses. The "explosion" was strong enough to take out the staircase did any of the other people who were still in the building before the collapses notice it.
Zarillo does know he was in transit and thinks he was crossing the bridge when the second plane hit at 9:03. So he drove to the building parked got out walked to WTC 7 went up to the 23rd floor and after 5 to 10 minutes left.