JFK- The Three Tramps at Dealy Plaza

[Daryl17]

The story goes that three tramps were photographed at in Dallas the day JFK was killed.

Some have identified at least one of the men as being E. Howard Hunt, Hunt was a former member of the CIA and was one of the White House's "plumbers" — a secret team of operatives charged with fixing "leaks".

He himself has admitted to being one of the tramps pictured, if true what does this mean?
http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules/ts3.jpg

One of the tramps compared with known pictures of E Howard Hunt:
http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules/h1.jpg
Another alleged tramp was Woody Harrelsons dad Charls Harrelson, a freelance hitman connected to organised crime, here is a known picture of him on the right next to an unknown tramp pictured at Dealy Plaza on November 22nd 1963:
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/slide/DSC00056.JPG

[DGM]

Take a good look at the shadowing in the top picture. Notice anything funny about the front two people? Hint, compare shadows to man with the bag.

[Daryl17]

Take a good look at the shadowing in the top picture. Notice anything funny about the front two people? Hint, compare shadows to man with the bag.
Possibly multiple light sources? Are you alleging that the pictures are fake?

[gumboot]

When was that photo of the three men taken? I count at least three light sources.

-Gumboot

[Daryl17]

When was that photo of the three men taken? I count at least three light sources.

-Gumboot
The photo was taken the afternoon of Kennedys death.

[DGM]

Yes: Also notice contrast differences between the three men and the background. Sharpness of wrinkles in middle man's pants doesn't match the sharpness in the rest of the picture.

[calebprime]

Bugliosi pg. 932


Hunt was probably in Washington, D.C. on Nov. 22.

but in any case,

FBI agent Lyndal Shaneyfelt looked at the tramps photo, and concluded it wasn't Hunt.

-The tramp was older
-The tramp was 2 inches shorter
-The tramp has a more pointed chin, and more bulbous nose

in 1978 the HSCA had a panel of forensic anthropologists look at the tramps photo, and they concluded it wasn't Hunt.

eta: source for claiming "he himself admitted it was him in the picture?"

[calebprime]

Harrelson is not exactly a dependable witness.

He admitted making up a story about being part of a conspiracy in this case. He was high on coke and trying to make a deal.

Later he said he was in Dallas at the time of the JFK murder, having lunch with a friend.

He's currently in jail, serving a life sentence for the murder of Judge Wood.

Bugliosi pg. 907

[Brainster]

Hunt did not admit to being the tramp; in the supposed confession, he claimed that he personally was not involved in the assassination.

[Daryl17]

UPDATE: The idea that these men were CIA/hired killers has been thoroughly debunked by this exellent website http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/5439/Documents.html

[DGM]

This is a good article about the three tramps

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/3tramps.htm

[calebprime]

Bugliosi, pg. 929

The tramps were arrested in a coal car on Nov. 22. They were not found to be carrying anything, nor was there any evidence against them.

They were not booked, and they were released.

They were photographed after their release by photographers from the Dallas Morning News, Dallas Times Herald, and Fort Worth Star Telegram.

Nothing further is known about them, according to Bugliosi.

eta: it's not true that "nothing further is known" and that's not exactly what he said. I should have been more careful. I meant nothing important connecting them to the assassination.

[chran]

Look at this

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/5316467e8c5a06cea.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6533)

The background to the right of his left leg is completely different with regards to patterning - the lines aren't parallel to each other. The light is also completely different - hard sunlight to the right, soft, filtered light to the left.

Between his legs, you can see something that looks like another man's legs - where is his body?

[Daryl17]

Look at this

[/URL][URL]http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/5316467e8c5a06cea.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6533)

The background to the right of his left leg is completely different with regards to patterning - the lines aren't parallel to each other. The light is also completely different - hard sunlight to the right, soft, filtered light to the left.

Between his legs, you can see something that looks like another man's legs - where is his body?
*Sigh* The pictures werent faked, the three men have been identified, do the research instead of making outlandish statements about how the pictures are faked.

[gumboot]

I don't think there's any reason to think the photograph is fake. The event appears to be well documented, and the persons in the photograph don't look like the people CTers claim they are.

There's obviously a lot happening outside the frame of the photo, and there's clearly multiple light sources, so making any accurate assessments about the realism of the shadows without supporting photographs of the location is problematic.

-Gumboot

-Gumboot

[chran]

*Sigh* The pictures werent faked, the three men have been identified, do the research instead of making outlandish statements about how the pictures are faked. Why would I do RESEARCH?!?!

This is the conspiracy forum, ffs! Sheesh.

:rolleyes:

[Comsat Angel]

Besides, that 3rd tramp is so obviously Tom Waits. Down to the whisky-in-brown-bag, even.

[calebprime]

and the guy in the middle is clearly Tim Robbins.

[AZCat]

Besides, that 3rd tramp is so obviously Tom Waits. Down to the whisky-in-brown-bag, even.

That dude sooo has a party in his head.

[SpitfireIX]

Harrelson is not exactly a dependable witness.

He admitted making up a story about being part of a conspiracy in this case. He was high on coke and trying to make a deal.

Later he said he was in Dallas at the time of the JFK murder, having lunch with a friend.

He's currently in jail, serving a life sentence for the murder of Judge Wood.

Bugliosi pg. 907


Update: Charles Harrelson has died, apparently of natural causes, since Reclaiming History went to press.

ETA: "And Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead." :D

[ConspiRaider]

Update: Charles Harrelson has died, apparently of natural causes, since Reclaiming History went to press.

ETA: "And Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead." :D
I think I remember that from the early Saturday Night Live. And by that I mean the actual Saturday Night Live.

Fort Wayne, Indiana! I know where that is, right off Hwy 69 over there. Your city figured prominently in my first screenplay! The Big Scene unfolds there. Don't hold your breath on seeing it filmed, though.

[Monza]

Look at this

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/5316467e8c5a06cea.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6533)

The background to the right of his left leg is completely different with regards to patterning - the lines aren't parallel to each other. The light is also completely different - hard sunlight to the right, soft, filtered light to the left.

Between his legs, you can see something that looks like another man's legs - where is his body?

Maybe the photo was faked by the same people who faked these (http://www.iangoddard.net/moon01.htm) photos. ;)

[SpitfireIX]

I think I remember that from the early Saturday Night Live. And by that I mean the actual Saturday Night Live.


Actually, I don't remember it, and had to have it explained to me. I was in 4th grade when Franco died, and my parents didn't start letting me regularly stay up late enough to watch SNL until about a year later. But SNL quickly became one of my favorite "grown-up" shows (behind M*A*S*H and Barney Miller).

Fort Wayne, Indiana! I know where that is, right off Hwy 69 over there. Your city figured prominently in my first screenplay! The Big Scene unfolds there. Don't hold your breath on seeing it filmed, though.


Now, for bonus points, can you (or anyone else) name the two movies in which Fort Wayne is mentioned? Cheating by using IMDB, Wikipedia, or Google will not be tolerated. :warning1

BTW, I know something about screenwriting--my brother has been trying (unsuccessfully) to break into the field for nearly 20 years, and he sometimes asks me to read his scripts, and for advice on historical matters. When I was finishing my first college degree, there was a copy of a draft of the script for Natural Born Killers in my bedroom for about two years before the movie started filming, because my brother knew one of the co-writers.

[Lyte Trip]

if true what does this mean?

it means the members of Jref are in denial.

[PhantomWolf]

it means the members of Jref are in denial.

Pity for you that it's not true then isn't it.

[uk_dave]

it means the members of Jref are in denial.

If what's true? That the tramps in the pictures weren't tramps at all?

Considering that has been soundly debunked in this thread, there is only one person in denial here.

So, Lyte, do you still believe those guys weren't tramps?

Still trust your judgment regarding the pentagon?

[ConspiRaider]

Now, for bonus points, can you (or anyone else) name the two movies in which Fort Wayne is mentioned? Cheating by using IMDB, Wikipedia, or Google will not be tolerated. :warning1

BTW, I know something about screenwriting--my brother has been trying (unsuccessfully) to break into the field for nearly 20 years, and he sometimes asks me to read his scripts, and for advice on historical matters. When I was finishing my first college degree, there was a copy of a draft of the script for Natural Born Killers in my bedroom for about two years before the movie started filming, because my brother knew one of the co-writers.
Okay this is a long shot because I haven't seen the movie in years. But it seems that in the movie Animal House, when they went on the road trip to raid the women's college, the one they picked out, Fawn Lebowitz I think, was from there. Otter says something like: "...and she was from Fort Wayne, Indiana". The one who died in the kiln explosion. Could be wrong on that. I refuse to web search this, removes the fun.

Damned if I can think of the other, but something is knocking around - older movie... something.

In my film, the most critical scene - near the end - happens in Fort Wayne. And it's just that scene, although "Fort Wayne" is mentioned in other places. The main setting is not Fort Wayne.

[ConspiRaider]

If what's true? That the tramps in the pictures weren't tramps at all?

Considering that has been soundly debunked in this thread, there is only one person in denial here.

So, Lyte, do you still believe those guys weren't tramps?

Still trust your judgment regarding the pentagon?
He may be onto something, Dave. Look at Hunt's derby where the 3 of the "hoboes" are caught full on in the picture. See how it's cockeyed? Now I have to ask myself, what else besides Hunt's head is under that menacing derby? What's he hiding?

I'm figuring thermate. Plus if you look real close, you can see the reflection of a blasting cap near the back of the derby, and a coiled wire hanging down and touching Hunt's collar. Plain as day.

[Lyte Trip]

If what's true? That the tramps in the pictures weren't tramps at all?

Considering that has been soundly debunked in this thread, there is only one person in denial here.

So, Lyte, do you still believe those guys weren't tramps?

Still trust your judgment regarding the pentagon?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/300407deathbedconfession.htm

[uk_dave]

OMG PrisonPlanet had the story on 30th April and I'm only now hearing about it???

I am so out of the loop on this. I'll have to have words with the watson twins.

OMG!!11!!! There was even a guy standing outside the school book depository with the exact same hair cut as Bush senior!!111 Who'd have thunk it?? In the 60's an' all. We all know everyone had long, long hair in the 60's. I seen it in a film once.

Still trust your judgement regarding the Pentagon, Lyte?

[Lyte Trip]

Still trust your judgement regarding the Pentagon, Lyte?

Still in denial about the North side of the Citgo flight path, Dave?

[uk_dave]

Still in denial about the North side of the Citgo flight path, Dave?

Yep.

Your witnesses are flawed.
The physical evidence proves the south side path.
The NWO is a figure of speach to describe a reordering of priorities subsequent to the end of the cold war (you know, the 'peace dividend' and all that)
Aircraft produce trails of water vapour when they fly through certain atmospheric conditions.
JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald
Your phone isn't being tapped
You encountered no danger to your wellbeing when you disclosed your true identity online
Your judgement is flawed

[Lyte Trip]

http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2717672#post2717672) Still in denial about the North side of the Citgo flight path, Dave?


Yep.

[Foolmewunz]

[URL="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2717672#post2717672"]http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif

This is just a form of trollish behaviour. Your intention is to disrupt this forum, obviously.

Snipping all other text and context out of a message is blatant dishonesty.

[Brainache]

Well I'm not sure if this pic has been faked, but it appears Sophia Loren is checking out Jayne Mansfield's rack:

http://atmosfera.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/Sophia%20Loren%20Jayne%20Mansfield.jpg

[Lyte Trip]

This is just a form of trollish behaviour. Your intention is to disrupt this forum, obviously.

Snipping all other text and context out of a message is blatant dishonesty.

Aw come on, I thought tough guys in fedoras and snappy suits were not supposed to be crybabies.

I am responding to the poster, UK Dave. No one is disrupting anything.

[Lyte Trip]

http://prisonplanet.com/audio/300407jfktape.mp3

[Foolmewunz]

Aw come on, I thought tough guys in fedoras and snappy suits were not supposed to be crybabies.

I am responding to the poster, UK Dave. No one is disrupting anything.

Are, too!

Changing the text of a post to distort it is de rigeur for your schlocumentary work, but unlike LC and the ever handy Holy Eraser of Avery, threads here do not disappear.

Misquote someone here in one of your masterpieces and you'll find yourself in Google Hades.

[Brainache]

http://prisonplanet.com/audio/300407jfktape.mp3

Why would anyone believe anything from PrisonPlanet?

Isn't that Alex Jones' site?

[Foolmewunz]

Why would anyone believe anything from PrisonPlanet?

Isn't that Alex Jones' site?

Yes, and the only place Lyte and Dylan and Co. trust for their unbiased news reporting.

[Brainache]

Yes, and the only place Lyte and Dylan and Co. trust for their unbiased news reporting.

So, no surprise that they are wrong all the time then.

I wonder if they will ever reach a point where they start to make a connection between the ammount of times they are wrong about stuff and the sources they use...

Probably not.

[uk_dave]

How could anyone take seriously a site called "PrisonPlanet" or "Infowars" anyway? It's juvenile.

And it's not a very good idea to wear your heart on your sleeve if you're going to try to disseminate information which the mainstream ignores. They would have a bit more success using more innocuous names which might then lure the unsuspecting user into believing that maybe their material is the real deal.

But, of course, they choose their site name to appeal to their target audience. Unfortunately since that audience are already bonkers and believe any old crap, it does nothing to actually further the cause they are promoting because normal rational people just say "Prison Planet? **** off!" and get their news and information from a site they know they can trust.

[calebprime]

Here's the deathbed "confession", from Slate.com

Slate: I know there is a conspiracy theory saying that David Atlee Phillips—the Miami CIA station chief—was involved with the assassination of JFK.

Hunt: [Visibly uncomfortable] I have no comment.

Slate: I know you hired him early on, to work with you in Mexico, to help with Guatemala propaganda.

Hunt: He was one of the best briefers I ever saw.

Slate: And there were even conspiracy theories about you being in Dallas the day JFK was killed.

Hunt: No comment.

Laura Hunt: Howard says he wasn't, and I believe him.

cp: maybe I missed something: was there more "confession"?

[CurtC]

I think I remember that from the early Saturday Night Live. And by that I mean the actual Saturday Night Live.
Oh, so you mean the variety show hosted by Howard Cosell? 'Cause the early NBC skit show was called simply Saturday Night (and that's why Pardo always introduced it as "Live from New York - it's Saturday Night!").

I remember being confused when people started calling the skit show "Saturday Night Live" because I really thought they were talking about Howard Cosell's show.

[Brattus]

The connections between the show Saturday Night and the assassination of JFK is undeniable. If you watch the first season back wards watching the TV upside down while humming I got you babe. It all becomes painfully clear.

[A W Smith]

while we are on the topic of possible doctored JFK assassination photos

[Free Thinkr]

And I'll go ahead and say it once again: whoever came up with that photo is a genius. It's incredible how well that works.

[calebprime]

Copyright © George E. Mahlberg 1996--he apparently did it with Jackson's permission.

The photo raises some provocative questions.

Ruby was right-handed, yet the guitar is upside-down, suggesting it is being played Hendrix-style. But this is several years before Hendrix got out of the army.

Forensic anthropologists are divided over the issue of whether Ruby is playing with a capo on the second fret. Yet the third finger of his right hand is on the 7th fret, suggesting a jam in E.

http://forums.randi.org/tags/index.php/inagaddadaoswald/

Hendrix got into trouble with the law twice for riding in a stolen car. He was given a choice between spending two years in prison or joining the army. Hendrix chose the latter and enlisted on May 31, 1961. After completing boot camp he was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division and stationed in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. His commanding officers considered him to be a sub-par soldier: he slept while on duty, had little regard for regulations and showed no skill as a marksman.[3] He was given an early release from military service in Fort Campbell, Kentucky for "behavioral problems",[4] though rumors held that he faked homosexuality or was given a medical release for breaking his ankle while parachuting.