CIA "Family Jewels" exposed today, assasinations to breakins... take your pick

[MilwaukeeMike]

So like writers collaborating for the next Bond or MIP movie, the CIA released years of troubling adventures that are sure to raise some questions internationally about America's intelligence agency.

Excerpts taken from the MSNBC article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19438161/

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-->The CIA confined a Soviet defector in a safe house in Virginia for two years beginning in 1964, fearing he might be a plant. The papers indicate that the CIA regularly confined defectors for interrogation, but only outside the United States, and Colby was concerned that the detention of the Soviet defector might violate kidnapping laws.

-->The CIA conducted surveillance on numerous journalists, including Brit Hume, now an anchor for Fox News. Hume was working for investigative columnist Jack Anderson when he, Anderson and other Anderson associates were put under surveillance in 1972 after Anderson published a column, considered inside the agency as highly damaging, reporting that the CIA was “tilting” toward Pakistan in its Middle East operations.

-->For 20 years beginning in 1953, the CIA screened and opened mail to and from the Soviet Union that passed through John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. The operation was approved by three successive postmasters general, the documents indicate.

-->From 1963 to 1973, the CIA authorized and funded “behavioral modification” research on Americans without their consent. The research primarily involved observation of their reactions in public, but some of it involved reactions to undisclosed drugs, the documents report.

-->The CIA plotted the assassinations of Cuban President Fidel Castro; Patrice Lumumba, the democratically elected president of the Democratic Republic of the Congo; and Rafael Trujillo, the Dominican dictator.

-->The Mafia was also involved in the plot to assassinate Castro, the papers reveal, and Sam Giancana, boss of the Chicago mob, once used that connection to seek a personal favor. According to the documents, Giancana asked Robert Maheu, his contact with the CIA, for help in bugging his girlfriend, Phyllis McGuire, a member of the McGuire Sisters, a popular singing group.

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Is this something we should be upset about or just shrug off. Personally, I dont really care.... Its the CIA... What the hell do you think they are doing, baking cookies together at Langley.



NOTE - Sorry for the typo in the title... I missed an s in assassination. I know their are a lot of anal-retentive peole here at JREF that would rather debate my typo than the issue.

Mike

[TragicMonkey]

NOTE - Sorry for the typo in the title... I missed an s in assassination. I know their are a lot of anal-retentive peole here at JREF that would rather debate my typo than the issue.

Mike

No, I think "assinations" is completely the right word for the CIA, particularly their activities in South America. You know, the ones that make America so popular there.

[MilwaukeeMike]

No, I think "assinations" is completely the right word for the CIA, particularly their activities in South America. You know, the ones that make America so popular there.

True True.... Man, the U.S. just can never catch a break...

[E.J.Armstrong]

Do the activities of the CIA and the deteriorating world view of the US government have any connection?

Hand on chin. I wonder. Hmmmmmm.

Nope how could it? After all 'Torturing people is our god given right' said George.

[Puppycow]

Do the activities of the CIA and the deteriorating world view of the US government have any connection?

Hand on chin. I wonder. Hmmmmmm.

Nope how could it? After all 'Torturing people is our god given right' said George.

My 2 cents: Americans are people like everyone else. Every superpower behaves somewhat arrogantly, and if Mexico or Thailand, or Zimbabwe was the world's superpower, they would have behaved at least as badly. In fact, I think the US behavior has been restrained, given the circumstances.

That said, clearly things would be better if we had exercised more restraint, but the fact that we did not is understandable. Like Madeleine Albright once tellingly said: What's the use of having the most powerful army in the world if you don't get to use it? (Or words to that effect). Of course that is absolutely wrong, but understandable given human nature. :D

[Texas]

No, I think "assinations" is completely the right word for the CIA, particularly their activities in South America. You know, the ones that make America so popular there.
Maybe you could expand on those "South American" activities a bit especially in the context of the Cold War.

[egslim]

Is this something we should be upset about or just shrug off. Personally, I dont really care.... Its the CIA...
Very good question. Now, suppose it became known that a country like Iran:
- authorized and funded “behavioral modification” research on Iranians without their consent,
- plotted the assassinations of a foreign democratically elected president,
- screened and opened mail to and from the United States that passed through Teheran International Airport in Teheran.
Would you shrug that off, because you expect any country with an intelligence agency to do those things? Or would you respond differently?

[fishbob]

True True.... Man, the U.S. just can never catch a break...

We might catch a break if we kept our clandestine hands out their national cookie jars.

Our responsibility is to squash our mavericks that secretly flog up unpleasant consequences for our country. To date, we mostly ignore the trouble these partisans and nitwits cause. Too much shopping and football to bother.

[TragicMonkey]

Maybe you could expand on those "South American" activities a bit especially in the context of the Cold War.

Operation Condor.

[WildCat]

Very good question. Now, suppose it became known that a country like Iran:
- authorized and funded “behavioral modification” research on Iranians without their consent,
- plotted the assassinations of a foreign democratically elected president,
- screened and opened mail to and from the United States that passed through Teheran International Airport in Teheran.
Would you shrug that off, because you expect any country with an intelligence agency to do those things? Or would you respond differently?
I think you'll find that Iran already goes far beyond those scenarios.

[egslim]

I think you'll find that Iran already goes far beyond those scenarios.
Actually I find you're avoiding the question.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Small potatoes compared to the KGB...not saying what the CIA did was right though.

[Oliver]

Is this something we should be upset about or just shrug off.


As an American I would say: "Yes, I'm interested to know what my government is doing. And as a citizen I deserve to know it as my right to know what they're doing."

As a German citizen, I say: "Yes, I demand to know what the US is doing because they're a partner and their foreign policies may endanger the world I live."

Honestly: I can't believe you don't care at all. :(

[Comrade Ogilvy]

As an American I would say: "Yes, I'm interested to know what my government is doing. And as a citizen I deserve to know it as my right to know what they're doing."

As a German citizen, I say: "Yes, I demand to know what the US is doing because they're a partner and their foreign policies may endanger the world I live."

Honestly: I can't believe you don't care at all. :(

Sometimes security of the nation prevents that until a later date.

[Oliver]

Sometimes security of the nation prevents that until a later date.


I know that's the way the Government does it. Everything you don't deserve to know is "national security". But what if this secret behavior gets you involved in another war, maybe world war, a terrorist attack or something else: Wouldn't you want to know how this could happen in the first place?

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I know that's the way the Government does it. Everything you don't deserve to know is "national security". But what if this secret behavior gets you involved in another war, maybe world war, a terrorist attack or something else: Wouldn't you want to know how this could happen in the first place?


Since the late 70`s govt. over site ( The Church committee I think) has been been a great deterrent to abuses.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I know that's the way the Government does it. Everything you don't deserve to know is "national security". But what if this secret behavior gets you involved in another war, maybe world war, a terrorist attack or something else: Wouldn't you want to know how this could happen in the first place?


That`s what the New York Times is for...to leak secrets...screw America got to win the Pulitzer Prize at all cost.

[Bikewer]

An article in The Nation:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070626/cm_thenation/3208296;_ylt=AmyklYASpC3kew1clhL5ze8e_8QF

points out that the very first "jewel" in the documents released to the press is redacted....Evidently at least one was considered too naughty to mention yet.

[Oliver]

Since the late 70`s govt. over site ( The Church committee I think) has been been a great deterrent to abuses.

That`s what the New York Times is for...to leak secrets...screw America got to win the Pulitzer Prize at all cost.


You're in a unjustified war right now.

Why? Because your media and government didn't tell you the whole truth. Otherwise the Iraq-War would never happened. :boggled:

It's your vote and tax-money. I would suppose that this should interest you in some way, shouldn't it?

[Texas]

You're in a unjustified war right now.

Why? Because your media and government didn't tell you the whole truth. Otherwise the Iraq-War would never happened. :boggled:

It's your vote and tax-money. I would suppose that this should interest you in some way, shouldn't it? In your opinion what is the definition of a "justified war"?

[Oliver]

In your opinion what is the definition of a "justified war"?


A real threat.

Not an imaginary propaganda-threat in which the propagandists know the flimsy evidence and historical backgrounds.

[Texas]

Operation Condor.That is a curious example if you are trying since intelligence agencies from Spain, Portugal and especially France and Italy were far more involved in Operation Condor than the dreaded CIA. In fact the major CIA involvement was limited to providing it's Panamanian communications center for coordination of intelligence between those other agencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

[Texas]

A real threat.

Not an imaginary propaganda-threat in which the propagandists know the flimsy evidence and historical backgrounds.
A "real threat" to whom? What responsibility do free nations have to intervene in countries that systematically kill its own citizens in numbers that approach Genocide?

[Oliver]

A "real threat" to whom? What responsibility do free nations have to intervene in countries that systematically kill its own citizens in numbers that approach Genocide?


That's wish thinking based on patriotic breeding on your side, Texas.

We, Germany AND the US helped Saddam with ingredients WHILE he was killing Kurds. And there is no excuse for that - even if your Media didn't tell you that after 9/11 because it was unpatriotic to mention it in the run-up to war.


Please read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A13558-2003Dec18&notFound=true
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29&notFound=true

[Texas]

That's wish thinking based on patriotic breeding on your side, Texas.

We, Germany AND the US helped Saddam with ingredients WHILE he was killing Kurds. And there is no excuse for that - even if your Media didn't tell you that after 9/11 because it was unpatriotic to mention it in the run-up to war.


Please read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A13558-2003Dec18&notFound=true
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29&notFound=true No, The Untied States did NOT provide the chemicals used to Gas the Kurds. Just this year a Dutch citizen was convicted of abetting the "genocide" of the Kurds by selling the Saddam the chemicals used against the Kurds. Yes the Hague called the killing of the Kurds GENOCIDE.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4555000.stm

[TragicMonkey]

That is a curious example if you are trying since intelligence agencies from Spain, Portugal and especially France and Italy were far more involved in Operation Condor than the dreaded CIA. In fact the major CIA involvement was limited to providing it's Panamanian communications center for coordination of intelligence between those other agencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

My bad. The CIA only helped commit atrocities a little bit.

[Texas]

My bad. The CIA only helped commit atrocities a little bit. Well you are making progress.

[Oliver]

No, The Untied States did NOT provide the chemicals used to Gas the Kurds. Just this year a Dutch citizen was convicted of abetting the "genocide" of the Kurds by selling the Saddam the chemicals used against the Kurds. Yes the Hague called the killing of the Kurds GENOCIDE.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4555000.stm


You ignored my articles, didn't you?

Anyway: All of this was discussed in the "So what's this war about anyway"-Thread. There are much worse Genocides in Africa and the US-Government don't care as much as evil Saddam, who had the Mob under control until he was overturned. That's a fact.

[MaGZ]

I don’t think there is anything new here. It appears to be a repeat of things that have been reported in the past. Now, we have official confirmation.

[Texas]

You ignored my articles, didn't you?

Anyway: All of this was discussed in the "So what's this war about anyway"-Thread. There are much worse Genocides in Africa and the US-Government don't care as much as evil Saddam, who had the Mob under control until he was overturned. That's a fact. Wow. On another thread you started you are lecturing the forum on what democracy should be. You even posted a definition of "Democracy" that includes "Mob Rule" and then turn around and imply that even though Saddam was an "evil guy", he had the "mob" under control. Irony thy name is Oliver.

[Oliver]

Wow. On another thread you started you are lecturing the forum on what democracy should be. You even posted a definition of "Democracy" that includes "Mob Rule" and then turn around and imply that even though Saddam was an "evil guy", he had the "mob" under control. Irony thy name is Oliver.


You definitely didn't read the articles I linked to - and you handpicked a translation of the Greek origin of the word democracy (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2725499&postcount=49). That's the text-book definition of Ignorance, isn't it?

[Texas]

You definitely didn't read the articles I linked to - and you handpicked a translation of the Greek origin of the word democracy (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2725499&postcount=49). That's the text-book definition of Ignorance, isn't it? I read it but I doubt that you did since the second link destroys your point.
I actually read past the headline.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I don’t think there is anything new here. It appears to be a repeat of things that have been reported in the past. Now, we have official confirmation.
I was thinking more or less the same thing. Really big secrets that must be shared by lots of people just don't stay secret--contrary to what the CT crowd thinks.

On a radio call in program, I heard a caller trying to find out what the Family Jewels had to say about JFK's assassination. I'm surprised he didn't ask about that Roswell alien autopsy file too.

[Texas]

I was thinking more or less the same thing. Really big secrets that must be shared by lots of people just don't stay secret--contrary to what the CT crowd thinks.

On a radio call in program, I heard a caller trying to find out what the Family Jewels had to say about JFK's assassination. I'm surprised he didn't ask about that Roswell alien autopsy file too. I really wish the CIA was as competently "evil" as the left says it is/was. From past history they are more Maxwell Smart than James Bond.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

You're in a unjustified war right now.

Why? Because your media and government didn't tell you the whole truth. Otherwise the Iraq-War would never happened. :boggled:

It's your vote and tax-money. I would suppose that this should interest you in some way, shouldn't it?


Gee...the MI6 and the CIA must have got with Karl Rove separately and came up with the same conclusion about Saddam WMD..how strange....must be Karl Rove again.

[Oliver]

Gee...the MI6 and the CIA must have got with Karl Rove separately and came up with the same conclusion about Saddam WMD..how strange....must be Karl Rove again.


Who is Karl Rove? :D Nope, I think it's the neo-conservatives fault and I still have a hard time to understand how they did it - along with Blair's sympathy with the US plans in Iraq.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Who is Karl Rove? :D Nope, I think it's the neo-conservatives fault and I still have a hard time to understand how they did it - along with Blair's sympathy with the US plans in Iraq.


Yeah..aint that a wonder that the CIA and MI6 came up with the same intel on saddam..looks like a conspiracy to me.

[MaGZ]

Gee...the MI6 and the CIA must have got with Karl Rove separately and came up with the same conclusion about Saddam WMD..how strange....must be Karl Rove again.

I think it was the Mossad that was passing the bogus intelligence on Saddam. Remember the defense for failing to find the WMDs was, "All of the intelligence agencies in the world thought Iraq had WMDs"?

[Gurdur]

MaGZ versus Comrade Ogilvy.

Kind of like watching Britney Spears and Paris Hilton debating each other as to who should win the Nobel Prize For Physics.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

You're in a unjustified war right now.

Why? Because your media and government didn't tell you the whole truth. Otherwise the Iraq-War would never happened. :boggled:

It's your vote and tax-money. I would suppose that this should interest you in some way, shouldn't it?

That`s strange didn`t the Brits go to war on the Intel from their own MI6...not exactly what our Govt. told them. Didn`t the Democrats that voted for the war get the same Intel that the President did. I don`t think anyone lied to the public..but we simply got bad Intel which sometimes happens.

[E.J.Armstrong]

That`s strange didn`t the Brits go to war on the Intel from their own MI6...not exactly what our Govt. told them. Didn`t the Democrats that voted for the war get the same Intel that the President did. I don`t think anyone lied to the public..but we simply got bad Intel which sometimes happens.
The fact that the statmemnts about uranium from Africa was known to be false before Bush made his State of the Union address.

That was a therefore blatant lie but mushroom clouds were repeatedly referred to by Rice, Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld before the illegal invasion.

We were also told that the intelligence about the location of WMD was cast iron when it was known that it was not. Another of the many blatant lies.

The British people were systematically lied to by Blair when he stated that we wre under the threat of attack in 45minutes when he knew that was a lie.

One of the experts who actually knew the truth tried to warn the British people and then committed suicide after being hounded by Blair's lackeys.

We were systematically lied to so that Bush could enact the PNAC agenda and Blair could get the job he now has from Bush.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

The fact that the statmemnts about uranium from Africa was known to be false before Bush made his State of the Union address.

That was a therefore blatant lie but mushroom clouds were repeatedly referred to by Rice, Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld before the illegal invasion.

We were also told that the intelligence about the location of WMD was cast iron when it was known that it was not. Another of the many blatant lies.

The British people were systematically lied to by Blair when he stated that we wre under the threat of attack in 45minutes when he knew that was a lie.

One of the experts who actually knew the truth tried to warn the British people and then committed suicide after being hounded by Blair's lackeys.

We were systematically lied to so that Bush could enact the PNAC agenda and Blair could get the job he now has from Bush.

Bush-Blair-Rove...a world wide conspiracy...!