Last Sylvia Browne thread I start, I promise! This time, I have hit PAY- dirt! :D

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Browne wrong again- Angela Lee...Am I pleased to say that :D .


Copyright 2007 St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Inc.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)
April 28, 2007 Saturday
THIRD EDITION

HEADLINE: Man is charged in '03 slaying

BYLINE: By Erik Potter Post-Dispatch Springfield Bureau

DATELINE: CARLINVILLE, Ill.

BODY:

Nearly four years after the killing of 22-year-old Angela Lee of East Gillespie, Ill., sheriff's officials have arrested a Litchfield man in the slaying.

Macoupin County Sheriff Don Albrecht announced Friday the arrest of Anthony Ashby, 27.
...


Funny, that's not what Sylvia Browne told Angela's mother, Deborah!


MONTEL WILLIAMS, HOST

We have some guests that have some questions for you like our first guest whose daughter-and I hate to go from having fun but to talk about something very serious...

SYLVIA BROWNE, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND WORLD RENOWNED PSYCHIC

Yeah.

MONTEL WILLIAMS, HOST

...brutally murdered in 2003. Police are still looking for her killer. And the crazy thing about this, Sylvia, is that you hear about this from time to time. This woman was a mother, a young child, had been out, I think, neighbors saw her out walking around earlier in the day with the girl.

SYLVIA BROWNE, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND WORLD RENOWNED PSYCHIC

Right.
...


Text has been shortened because it is copyrighted. Eeney, please see the PM I sent you yesterday.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Here's the link:

http://web.lexis-nexis.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/universe/document?_m=84984adf02525696ac8a610134499eff&_docnum=24&wchp=dGLbVzz-zSkVb&_md5=d7f4b7726d4395010654a4f3fbe5927d

[JeffJ]

MONTEL WILLIAMS, HOST

So if he did this once, I'd say the person would do it again.

SYLVIA BROWNE, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND WORLD RENOWNED PSYCHIC

Do it again.




:rolleyes: I love how Sylvia always repeats what the person just said and makes it look like that's what she already knew and was going to say.
Please don't stop the threads though... all of this info coming out about her can only be helpful in "stopping" her.

[tkingdoll]

I found your OP impossible to read in the format it's in, mainly due to the repeated "SYLVIA BROWNE, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND WORLD RENOWNED PSYCHIC" all the way through.

[Locknar]

I found your OP impossible to read in the format it's in, mainly due to the repeated "SYLVIA BROWNE, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND WORLD RENOWNED PSYCHIC" all the way through.


I agree with Tkingdoll...makes for a tough read, and I really didn't see the "pay dirt" aspect.

Though, don't stop :) The SB threads are quite funny (from the aspect of how wrong she is).

I wonder what case SB is talking about when she says "it's like that one case--I can't remember the name of the girl. I was on Paula Zahn Show. And the bracelet was right there and I kept saying, it's right in front of you. The police kept walking over it."

Anyone know?

[JoeTheJuggler]

I found your OP impossible to read in the format it's in, mainly due to the repeated "SYLVIA BROWNE, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND WORLD RENOWNED PSYCHIC" all the way through.

I think that's in the transcripts to show what captions were displayed on the TV screen during the broadcast.

I agree though, maybe a severely edited version would be easier to follow--especially since you provide the link to the full transcript.


So in summary: police arrested one Anthony Ashby for the murder, and they're confident they've got the right guy.

Sylvia mentioned a name that the network censored (who was a name connected with the case--obviously something she got as a hot read).

I'm guessing no one will ever say what name she said. The article said that the father of the victim had never met Ashby before--which doesn't mean he wasn't already a suspect in the case back during Sylvia's reading. Still--it'd be nice if we had the name she said to be a clear black/white right or wrong guess.

The other stuff she said is unconfirmed (also not ruled out) at least right now. (The knife, the other victim, a "college girl".)

We definitely need a separate Sylvia subforum. . . .

[JoeTheJuggler]

On the subject of editing down the transcript: I can see EMM's dilemma, though. Would it be more clear to have a bunch of <snip> tags all over the place? Just editing it without indicating missing info would not be a legit quote.

[RSLancastr]

Here it is again, a bit cleaned up

WILLIAMS: We have some guests that have some questions for you like our first guest whose daughter-and I hate to go from having fun but to talk about something very serious...

BROWNE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: ...brutally murdered in 2003. Police are still looking for her killer. And the crazy thing about this, Sylvia, is that you hear about this from time to time. This woman was a mother, a young child, had been out, I think, neighbors saw her out walking around earlier in the day with the girl.

BROWNE: Right.

WILLIAMS: Then a person literally went into the home, fortunately the child probably went and hid, but murdered this mother in the home while the child was there. Four hours later, this little boy had to live--stay in the house with his mom.

BROWNE: While she was...

WILLIAMS: While she was dead. Take a look at this.

BEGIN VIDEO CLIP

DEBORAH: I had a wonderful relationship with my daughter. We were more than mother and daughter. We were best friends. Most of all, she loved her son, Dayton, more than anything in the world. My life was changed forever Wednesday, July 30th of 2003. It was about 9:30 at night, and a police officer came walking up my sidewalk. Angela had been murdered. Angela was beaten and strangled to death. I couldn't even see her one last time. To tell her good-bye. My grandson was left in the house with Angie after she had been murdered for almost four hours. Four long hours. What I would like to know from Sylvia is who did it, why they did it to get this person behind bars before, you know, they do this to another family.

END VIDEO CLIP

WILLIAMS: Please welcome Deborah to the show. What is so disturbing is that this person did this in front of a child, and knew he did this in front of a child.

APPLAUSE

BROWNE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And that person is still out there.

BROWNE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: So if he did this once, I'd say the person would do it again.

BROWNE: Do it again.

WILLIAMS: What do you think? I'm sorry, Debbie, you should ask the questions. I'm sorry. You wanted to ask Sylvia a question, go ahead.

DEBORAH: That's okay. Thank you. Yeah, you know, we just don't have any answers, yet. Our world was turned upside down July 30th, 2003.

BROWNE: Sure it was.

DEBORAH: They've had leads, but we just don't have any solid answers. I'd like to know if, you know, we don't know where the murder weapon is.

WILLIAMS: There's something that's also weird. No forced entry.

BROWNE: Right.

WILLIAMS: No rape.

BROWNE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: No sexual assault.

BROWNE: Right. Just a serial killer.

WILLIAMS: No burglary.

BROWNE: It's a serial killer.

WILLIAMS: Okay.

BROWNE: Yeah, you know how long it took them to gut Bundy.

WILLIAMS: Right.

BROWNE: This guy's name is (censored by network).

DEBORAH: Oh, I know who that is.

WILLIAMS: You know the name?

DEBORAH: I know that name.

BROWNE: Well, if you know the name, that's...

WILLIAMS: You should pass that information on.

BROWNE: Would you please?

DEBORAH: Thank you.

BROWNE: 'Cause I mean, how many people have that name.

WILLIAMS: Anything, anything that will, you know...

DEBORAH: I need something, yes.

WILLIAMS: That's what I was gonna say, start probing you for the name. You know me, I (unintelligible).

BROWNE: Yeah, I know you. You'd be like a bulldog.

WILLIAMS: I know. Watch this. Is there something somewhere, a piece of evidence somewhere, something on the ground, something nearby, something that he may have thrown away, something else that we may be able to tie?

BROWNE: Well, there was--there is a knife in a bush. Right near where she is.

WILLIAMS: A knife in a bush.

BROWNE: Yeah. You know, sometimes it's so obvious, it's like that one case--I can't remember the name of the girl. I was on Paula Zahn Show. And the bracelet was right there and I kept saying, it's right in front of you. The police kept walking over it.

WILLIAMS: So there's a knife somewhere in that immediate location that may have DNA, may have some sort of evidence on it.

BROWNE: Yeah, yeah.

WILLIAMS: So will this be solved?

BROWNE: Oh, yeah. Because she even knows who this-I mean, she knows the name and everything.

WILLIAMS: Could there have been another link case nearby? If it's a serial killer, there may be another one that they can...

BROWNE: Yeah, there was a college student, a college girl. So you ask the police.

WILLIAMS: Ask about a college student who may have been beaten to death, similar or something close to that, near that in that region.

DEBORAH: Did he tell anyone else? Does anyone else know he did this to her?

BROWNE: Yeah, there is a friend by the name of (censored by network) that knows.

DEBORAH: Okay. Thank you.

[Tumblehome]

You know, sometimes it's so obvious, it's like that one case--I can't remember the name of the girl...

LOL!! A psychic can't remember a name. That's rich.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

The point is the guy was caught so she was proven demonstrably wrong.

She said it was a serial killer but there was no indication he had ever killed someone before. She mentioned that he had killed a college girl in the area but it looks like no such person exists. She said he had left a knife that could be tested for blood but it looks like the case was solved through persistant police work. She have a name that she might have hot-read but the killer, it turns out, was someone unknown to the family who didn't know his victim.

[patrick767]

The guy who did it was caught? How do we know that? They arrested someone and did not even divulge any details of what led the investigation to the suspect. He may or may not be guilty.

yes, Sylvia's a joke, but I'm just saying... :p

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Well, they were confident enough to charge him. And in either case, Browne was totally useless.

[Jayoss]

I find quite a bit oo amusement in watching the Montell Williams Show and listening to Browne rambling on with her nonsense. Anyone recall Browne stating on a live radio program where she said the miners who were trapped in Virginia would all be found alive? A few minutes later it was announced that all but one of the miners had survived. How does this woman sleep at night. :mad:

[RSLancastr]

Anyone recall Browne stating on a live radio program where she said the miners who were trapped in Virginia would all be found alive? A few minutes later it was announced that all but one of the miners had survived. How does this woman sleep at night. :mad:

Yes, Jayoss. You can read a transcript, and listen to the actual audio of that, in this article on the Stop Sylvia Browne site:

Coast To Coast AM: The Sago Mining Disaster (http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/c2c_sago.shtml)

[Tamazon]

I feel bad for the person that Sylvia mentioned who was known by Deborah. Imagine the hell they put the poor innocent guy through.

[JoeTheJuggler]

The point is the guy was caught so she was proven demonstrably wrong.
That's assuming the person she named wasn't this very guy. It's a good assumption (because I'm sure she'd be parading it as a solved crime if it were), but since we don't know what name she said, it is an assumption.

Again, we know the name Sylvia gave was known to the mother, and we know the father had never met Anthony Ashby before. (Someone can be known without ever having been met, and the experience of the mother could be different than that of the father.)

Has anyone leaked out what name she said?

She said it was a serial killer but there was no indication he had ever killed someone before. She mentioned that he had killed a college girl in the area but it looks like no such person exists. She said he had left a knife that could be tested for blood but it looks like the case was solved through persistant police work. She have a name that she might have hot-read but the killer, it turns out, was someone unknown to the family who didn't know his victim.

All she has to do is say that that's all information that simply hasn't come to light yet. Maybe after the trial when details come to light we'll know whether or not the knife was right, but just because the guy isn't known to have committed other murders doesn't mean he isn't a serial killer. (I know I know--there's no string of unsolved murders in the area, and it's incredibly unlikely that searches of his home wouldn't have turned up evidence of other murders, but as they say "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".)

That's why she does things the way she does. Most of her readings contain very little falsifiable material.

Of course, that's also the reason why they're always useless as "help" to solve these cases.

I think the way they should always be evaluated is the same way rewards for information on crimes are evaluated: whether or not that info led to an arrest and conviction. Otherwise, she can claim a bunch of blurry possible hits --when it's obvious she did not help solve the crime.

[The Bad Astronomer]

Be careful here. Presumed innocent until proven guilty. They have charged a guy, but you have to use the word "alleged" until convicted. This does not disprove Sylvia, and you shouldn't say it does until he's convicted, otherwise the woos will be all over you.

[RSLancastr]

Eeney, I couldn't see how this was "pay-dirt" last night, but chalked it up to the fever I'm having. Reading it in the light of day (and at somewhere around 98.6F), I have to agree with the Bad Astronomer here. It may well turn into a good story, and we need to keep an eye on it, but let's be careful about jumping the gun on conclusions, particularly where court decisions are involved.

Thanks for finding it!

[Sylvia Clown]

Sylvia Brown Poo said the word "yeah" TWELVE times in that whole segment. Twelve. And she hardly said much else.

A Future Sylvia/Montel Show Segment:

Montel: Please welcome world renowed psychic and author of the book, "Psychic Children", Sylvia Browne!

APPLAUSE. Sylvia walks out.

Browne: Yeah.

Sylvia sits down in her chair.

Montel: What's up, girlfriend?! I hear you just went on a cruise.

Sylvia: Yeah.

Montel: That must have been exciting!

Sylvia: Yeah, it was.

Montel: (pointing to an audience member) Stand up. You have a question for Sylvia?

Woman: Yes, I'd like to know if my husband made it to the other side.

Sylvia: Yeah.

Woman: (in tears) Thank you.

Another Female Audience Member: Sylvia, what is my spirit guide's name?

Sylvia: Yeah... oh, I mean... no, of course it isn't "yeah".

Audience laughs uproariously.

Sylvia: Uh... it's Maureen.

Male Audience Member: Sylvia, am I gonna be okay financially for the rest of this year?

Sylvia: Yeah.

Older Female Audience Member: Hello, Sylvia. So happy to be able to talk to you.

Sylvia: Oh, bless your heart.

Female Audience Member: (starts crying) I've been battling cancer for the past six years... I don't think I'm gonna make it. Will my children be OK?

Sylvia: Yeah... well, see, yeah... you're not gonna die. Not soon. Not in... oh, I'd say twenty five years!

Female Audience Member: Really?

Sylvia: Yeah. Listen, I'm not a doctor... I, you know, am more holistic. Get yourself some lecithin. L-E-C-I-T-H-I-N. You can get it at any drug store and it will cure you of cancer.

Female Audience Member: Lecithin?

Sylvia: Yeah.

Female Audience Member: Lecithin?!

Sylvia: Yeah.

Female Audience Member: LECITHIN?!?!

Sylvia: Yeah!

Shot of female audience member with her jaw dropped, looking like the happiest woman in the world.

Female Audience Member: THANK YOU, SYLVIA! YOU'RE THE BEST!

Sylvia: Yeah.

Montel: Let's take a break.

Sylvia: Yeah, let's.

Cue the Montel theme music.

---------------------------------------------------

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Lol, Sylvia Clown.:D

Well, Ashby was arrested very recently, so we might be able to follow his trial.

Here's another mention of the case:

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov_localnews_070427_coldcase.13b9e9bc.html

[JeffJ]

Sylvia Clown breaking out the funny! :D
I loved it.

[Reno]

love the reason for the edit Sylvia Clown :)

[JeffJ]

love the reason for the edit Sylvia Clown :)

I didn't even see that. :D :D

I also happened to love the sentence "Montel: What's up, girlfriend?!". It totally captured how Montel would talk.


Sylvia would not approve of the mocking tone of that post though.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/Estrus1/236.jpg

[Mr. Stick]

Sylvia Brown Poo said the word "yeah" TWELVE times in that whole segment. Twelve. And she hardly said much else.
Welcome SC, if you continue like that you're going to be quite popular. :)
I've also noticed her annoying habit of yeah'ing everything her victims or Montel says. When she's not doing that, she's mostly repeating what she's just been told.
Sylvia: "Yeah, repeating...."

[ilikefrogs]

Sylvia Clown, that was a riot! I've noticed that SB tends to say "yeah" a lot and Montel ends up carrying the conversations.

Hmm... I wonder if SB takes tranqualizers. That would explain why she just seems to go with everything...

[Sylvia Clown]

love the reason for the edit Sylvia Clown :)

I had spelled lecithin as "L-E-C-H-I-T-H-I-N", then discovered that it only contains one H.

I'm such a bad student of Miss Master's Degree In English Literature. Sylvia has spelled "lecithin" numerous times for the whole world. I should know it by now. Guess I might get an F in her english class... either that or she'll spank me in front of the class.

------------------------------------

Sylvia: L!

(spank)

Me: OW!

Sylvia: E!

(spank)

Me: OW!!

Sylvia: C!

(spank)

Me: OW!!!

Sylvia: I!

(spank)

Me: OW!!!!

Sylvia: T!

(spank)

Me: OW!!!!!

Sylvia: H!

(spank)

Me: OWWWWWWW!!!!!!

Sylvia: I!

(spank)

Me: *whimpering*

Sylvia: N!

(hardest spank)

Me: OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sylvia: What does that spell?!

Me: Lecithin!

Sylvia: Yeah. Now go write a 750 word essay on it!

Sylvia goes back to her desk and looks at another student's paper.

Sylvia: Rachel!

Rachel stops text messaging her friends and looks up at Sylvia, terrified.

Sylvia: You made a big mistake on your test paper for "The Mystical Life of Jesus". You said that Jesus died when he was 33. Actually, honey, he was 86. It's on page 190 of the book. Did you even read it?!

Sylvia holds up her paddle then extends one of her CLAWS out at Rachel, motioning her to come over.

Sylvia: Let's get this over with, Rachel. Afterwards, you'll be in time out and won't get to watch "Montel" with the rest of the class.
----------------------------------------------------

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Some of us have got to get together for a Montel drinking game. :D Robert could take a shot for every time she says "Yeah", Sylvia Clown could take "Lechithin, L-E-C-H-I-T-H-I-N", Fran could take every time she sucks on her nails and I'll do "Dontcha see?".

Some others for the taking: "What you got to do is eat less wheat.", "It's something to do with the chest area.", "You need to stop eating dairy.", "Look it up."

[JoeTheJuggler]

Lol, Sylvia Clown.:D

Well, Ashby was arrested very recently, so we might be able to follow his trial.

Here's another mention of the case:

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov_localnews_070427_coldcase.13b9e9bc.html

I'll keep my eyes and ears open. I'm here in St. Louis where this coverage is coming from.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Thanks! Did you ever hear of this case before?

Ha, you must have been flooded with news about Shawn Hornbeck day in and day out when that happened.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Here's another local TV news segment on the story:

http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=86C9BF901C8E75363E58E6F3B280A90E ?contentId=3049922&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

FWIW, you can see the parents telling Angela's grave that she can rest now because they've caught the guy. (Sylvia would be proud, I suspect.)

At this point, police are not divulging any of the details of the murder --what evidence led them to arrest Ashby or what his motive might've been.

[-Fran-]

Fran could take every time she sucks on her nails

YUCK, I don't think I could stomach drinking anything after that :D

[Sylvia Clown]

YUCK, I don't think I could stomach drinking anything after that :D

When she sucks on her nails (and I just watched a Sylvia/Montel video on YouTube and saw her do it) is that because she's craving a cigarette and wants something in her mouth?

Uh-oh, I feel another Sylvia script coming on...

---------------------------------------------

Sylvia is lounging around her house - which is a mansion - smoking a cigarette. We see diamond ashtrays everywhere. Her cell phone rings. Sylvia answers it.

SYLVIA: Yeah?

MONTEL: Hey girlfriend! It's Montel.

SYLVIA: I knew that already.

MONTEL: Syl... you don't have to pretend to be psychic with me in private!

SYLVIA: (puts a clawed finger up to her mouth) Ssssshhhhh...

MONTEL: I know, I know! Listen, for the next Sylvia Browne Wednesday show, I'm gonna have parents whose daughter was murdered and they wanna find the killer, followed by a guy who believes the ghost of his psychotic ex-girlfriend is haunting him, and then a woman who believes she's being chased by ghost dogs everytime she goes outside.

SYLVIA: Everytime she goes outside.

Sylvia puts out her cigarette in one of her ashtrays.

MONTEL: You will have to travel to the home of the woman who believes she's being chased by ghost dogs. She won't leave it. Do you think you could convince her to maybe leave her house?

SYLVIA: For an extra $2,500, yes.

MONTEL: Okay. Okay. That works.

Sylvia starts sucking on her nails. Montel can hear her.

MONTEL: Sylvia... are you sucking on your nails?

SYLVIA: Yeah.

MONTEL: (pause) That's so hot...

SYLVIA: Don't go there, Montel... unless you'd like to pay for it. Then we could go there.

MONTEL: How about... $4,000... if you'd let me listen to you suck on your nails for a half hour?

SYLVIA: $8,000.

MONTEL: Sold!

Sylvia starts sucking on her nails, more intensely.

MONTEL: Ohhhhhhh.... Sylvia. Your nails drive me WILD!

Sylvia reaches over and grabs a mini tape player. She stops sucking her nails and presses play while sitting it and her phone down on a table, close to each other. The tape plays SOUNDS OF SOMEONE SUCKING NAILS. Sylvia turns her phone on speaker.

MONTEL: Oooooh, yes, Sylvia, that's it baby. Suck on those talons.

Sylvia snickers to herself while lighting up another cigarette and laying back. She grabs a remote control and turns on her TV -- "The Young and the Restless" is on.

MONTEL: I am loving this, Sylvia. I see you suck on those nails in the studio and I about have to get up and leave. It's wildly erotic!

Sylvia starts coughing pretty bad while smoking.

MONTEL: Sylvia?! Are you okay?! Girlfriend?!

She continues to cough. Her tape player continues to play nail sucking sounds.

MONTEL: Sylvia?! SYLVIA?! ANSWER ME!!!! STOP SUCKING THOSE NAILS AND BREATHE!!!!

Sylvia stands up and manages to stop coughing.

MONTEL: Are you alright now???

Sylvia turns off the tape player and brings the cell phone to her face.

SYLVIA: I think I just coughed up a lung... I'm serious... it's on the floor. My lung. Dontcha see?

MONTEL: Oh my god, we gotta put that lung back in you right away!

SYLVIA: I can't afford that right now, Montel. I can't pay for the surgery! I just paid everyone who works at my church and I'm broke!

MONTEL: How much does lung surgery cost?

SYLVIA: $850,000.

MONTEL: I'll wire that money to you right away! Scoop up that lung and take it to the emergency room! We gotta keep you livin'!

SYLVIA: I will. Thank you, Montel. And don't forget about that $8,000 for the nail deal.

MONTEL: I will! Take care of yourself, Sylvia. See ya Wednesday!

SYLVIA: Bye bye, darling.

They hang up. Sylvia sits down and has another cigarette, totally relaxed.

SYLVIA: Sucker.
--------------------------------------------

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Here's another local TV news segment on the story:

http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=86C9BF901C8E75363E58E6F3B280A90E ?contentId=3049922&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

now because they've caught the guy. (Sylvia would be proud, I suspect.)



Detail gleaned from the broadcast: the worst crime Ashby is known to have committed is a burglary. No indication he's a serial killer so far.

[-Fran-]

When she sucks on her nails (and I just watched a Sylvia/Montel video on YouTube and saw her do it) is that because she's craving a cigarette and wants something in her mouth?

Uh-oh, I feel another Sylvia script coming on...



LOL

Oh, yuck!! :covereyes

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I don't know about you but I always think that there's no possible way I could dislike Sylvia Browne any less only to prove myself wrong.

After the latest batch of cases, I thought of writing down a short list of the harms psychic detectives do, taking SB as an example.

So here it goes:

1) They waste time, money, effort and resources, both private and public in missing persons, missing bodies and homicide cases. At best, it's wasteful but harmless, at worst diverts the real search and wastes resources that could have been spent on the real search. Case in point, Carol Wood (police followed up on the leads, family sent on wild goose chase) and Pat Viola (husband was told missing wife had a seizure and hitch hiked to Ohio. He literally dumped his money into the mud, sending a PI to Ohio and reportedly papered the town she was suppossed to be in with leaflets and notices).

2) Invent false stories that add to the trauma of the people's families. Case in point, Carol Wood, Opal Jo, Holly Krewson, Shawn Hornbeck, Ryan Katcher and Lynda McClelland. Implant images and ideas in their minds.

3) Give false hope when victims are really dead and take hope away falsely when victims are still alive or their bodies could still be found.

4) Might halt a search, case in point how SB made Amanda Berry's mother stop searching when she believed her daughter dead.

5) Embarrass the families on a public forum, such as with the boyfriend of the 9/11 victim and by putting their shock and grief on display (Carol Wood's sisters, Opal Jo's grandmother, Shawn Hornbeck's parents, Lynda McClelland's daughters)

6) Trample the memories of those people.

7) Accuse an innocent person of murder, as it seems happened at least twice with SB.

8) Exploit the families' grief and cheapen their efforts on behalf of the victims for monetary gain.

9) Make the families feel lied to, betrayed and exploited when they find out it was all a house of cards.

10) Take credit away from volunteers, private investigators, police, families and community groups by taking credit for finding a person, body, murderer, etc. As SB seems to be doing with John Baglier.


Am I missing anything?

[SeekingTruth]

[B]Last Sylvia Browne thread I start, I promise! This time, I have hit PAY-dirt!

Now you shouldn't be making promises that will be impossible to keep. You know how much we're enjoying these threads! :D

[JoeTheJuggler]

Sorry--duplicate.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Thanks! Did you ever hear of this case before?
No, I hadn't, though I don't often pay much attention to local news other than politics.


Ha, you must have been flooded with news about Shawn Hornbeck day in and day out when that happened.
It was quite a to-do around here. The place where Devlin worked (Imo's) is a St. Louis area pizza chain that's sort of typical St. Louis-style (thin square cut pizza with a ton of provolone cheese) and a popular hangout. A friend of mine who lives right near there is nuts for Imo's, so I've eaten lunch at that restaurant probably a dozen or so times in the past couple of years. Kirkwood is a moderately affluent suburb, so it was pretty shocking.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You know I've been to Kirkwood? A high school classmate of mine lives there and I visited him there three summers ago.

I was floored when I heard Shawn Hornbeck was found in my friend's neighborhood. And then floored again when the story broke that Sylvia Browne was involved. Six degrees of separation!

I hadn't heard of Imo's before Shawn was rescured but I figured I could have passed by it or seen it during my two weeks in St.Louis. It's creepy to think I was less than a mile from Shawn and Devlin; to think, something like that happening right under people's noses...

[RSLancastr]

Someone has posted the video of the reading on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77HaqvA6670

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Ok...there is something fishy going on. The news report calls Angela's mother "Lisa" while the Montel episode calls her "Deborah". They seem to be two different people, too while the pictures of Angela and the date and details match.

Could I have gotten the wrong Angela killed in front of her son on July 30th 2003...or is there any way someone was posing as Angela Lee's mother?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Just saw it again. Looks like the same woman in both, same four-year-old in both, same house and neighborhood. Even the same prom-looking photo used...so why does the woman standing at the grave look so different?

[RSLancastr]

Just saw it again. Looks like the same woman in both, same four-year-old in both, same house and neighborhood. Even the same prom-looking photo used...so why does the woman standing at the grave look so different?The woman at the grave site is identified in the news story as Angela Lee's stepmother.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I completely and totally missed that...D'oh!

[zombiebex]

Well, this (http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16978486&BRD=1719&PAG=461&dept_id=25271&rfi=6)article claims the investigators talked to three psychics.

This (http://www.thetelegraph.com/onset?id=1055&template=article.html)article claims she was stabbed, the first time that info seems to have come out. Probably information the police were withholding.

Might be a bit premature for an SSB article on this. We don't know if Mom knew the man or not, only Dad. But if her parents are divorced, it's possible they didn't share information about all their daughter's friends. We also don't know where the knife was found.

[RSLancastr]

I plan no article on this until after the trial.

[zombiebex]

Aha, here's another psychic TV show called "Sensing Murder" that might have said something different...


Prairie Predator
Airs, Thursday Nov. 2, at 10 p.m. ET/PT
On July 30, 2003, 22-year-old Angela Lee was beaten and strangled to death in her East Gillespie, Ill., home. Her son, a toddler at the time, was home during the murder. Three years later the police have no concrete leads. And Angela's mother is desperate for answers. Macoupin County Sheriff Don Albrecht and Detective Sergeant Mike Kostich have interviewed hundreds of people in their search for suspects ... but the crime remains unsolved. At the request of Angela's mother, they have now brought in two of America's most experienced psychic investigators, Pam Coronado and Laurie Campbell, to try and help find Angela's killer. Pam and Laurie have no prior knowledge of this case — they know nothing about Angela or how she was murdered — only that they are here to help a murder investigation get on track. Can they actually SENSE murder?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I've tried following up on this but found nothing new. Just these links:

http://www.thetelegraph.com/onset?id=1055&template=article.html

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=117916


And an article from 2006 about the other psychics:

http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/us/lnacademic/results/docview/docview.do?risb=21_T2612689685&format=GNBFI&sort=BOOLEAN&startDocNo=26&resultsUrlKey=29_T2612689688&cisb=22_T2612689687&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=11810&docNo=30

Authorities in Macoupin County, anxious for leads in the unsolved 2003 murder of Angela Lee, have agreed to a request from the victim's family to let psychics help in the investigation.

In March and again last month, psychics visited the Gillespie home where Lee, 22, was beaten and strangled on July 30, 2003.

Lee's longtime boyfriend, Jason Hanebrink, came home from work to find Lee dead. The couple's 4-year-old son saw the murder but was not injured in the attack. Hanebrink has been eliminated as a suspect in the crime.
At a news conference on Thursday at the Macoupin County Sheriff's Department, police said the psychics provided "helpful information."

"They told us things about the crime that we knew but that no one else knew," Macoupin County Sheriff Don Albrecht said.

Albrecht conceded, however, that police have no strong suspects in the case, despite interviewing more than 100 people and taking DNA samples from 40 of them.

"We look at this (bringing in psychics) as a tool for keeping this crime in the forefront, in the public eye," Albrecht said. "We know that someone out there has information that would identify the murderer, and for some reason -- maybe they're scared -- they have not come forward."
He said his department was also working with the FBI to develop a profile of the killer.

Albrecht said one of Lee's relatives had contacted a psychic from Raynham, Mass., who had worked with police in the past.
The psychic, Amy Mach, said in a telephone interview that she instantly began receiving images of the crime as soon as she answered the call from the relative.

"I work as a vessel for spirits, and they started coming through immediately," Mach, 48, said. "I discovered that this is a much more complicated case than police had initially believed."

Mach said she had been trained in England as a "certified angel messenger." Her Web site indicates that she charges $100 an hour for psychic sessions, but Mach said she paid her way to Gillespie and only charged room and board for her readings in March.

Mach said her psychic readings had contributed to numerous felony convictions in the past. However, she declined to give details, such as names or dates or specific police agencies with which she had worked.
A second set of psychics, from the Discovery Channel program "Sensing Murder," contacted Macoupin County authorities directly and were allowed to conduct psychic readings at the murder scene in June.

Albrecht said a program on the Lee case is scheduled to air on the cable network in November.

"Bringing in psychics is proof that we are willing to explore any avenue to solve this case," said Illinois State Police Capt. Craig Koehler.
Koehler said he had worked with a psychic on one other occasion, a murder years ago in East St. Louis. He said the psychic in that case did not provide any useful information.

....

[Bandersnatch]

Still going on. (http://www.riverbender.com/news/wbgz/rfullstory.cfm?newsfile=2007-11-07-36_Lee%20Murder%20Case%20Update&start=101) Apparently the defense has issues with how the evidence was obtained.

[angiesonlymom]

I just want to set the record straight on a few things. I am Angie's mother. her ONLY mother. That other woman is her fathers wife. She and Angie were not close. The big news is that recently Angie's dad and I accepted a plea agreement to put Anthony Ashby behind bars....in prison for 33 years. It was the most difficult decision I have ever had to make, but it was a guarantee of prison time for this creep. I would love to talk about Sylvia Browne. I was at the Montel Williams show and met with her as you know. She did give me incorrect information. However, it was interesting. I hope to hear from some of you very soon. Debbie-Angiesonlymom.

[rjh01]

Welcome angiesonlymom to this forum. Congratulations on your part in securing a conviction for the killer.

When you have time it would be great for you to tell us more about the show. What made you go to the show and what is needed to set the record straight, etc.

We are very much an anti sylvia browne site. I hope you have seen www.stopsylvia.com

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I'm so sorry for you loss, Debbie. If you don't mind me saying so, your daughter was very pretty and her son was adorable.

You must be so relieved to that this SOB was finally brought to justice.

If I can ask, what was the name that Sylvia Browne gave you? And why did you think she was correct?

Also, what kind of a release form did you sign on the show? Was it this one?

http://stopsylvia.com/articles/montel_release.shtml

Was there anything on the show that they edited out? Anything else Sylvia Browne told you?

Edit: And what Sylvia said about the knife that would be found in the bushes and the witness who knew something- do you know if any of that was untrue? Or true?

[angiesonlymom]

Wow I am thrilled to have such a quick response. Thank you to you all for your kind comments. Yes, my daughter was beautiful and her son is incredibly handsome. Now, about Sylvia Browne. I'm not sure it would be appropriate to give the name she gave me. It is someone who is known to Angie's friends and the police there. This may sound unbelievable but there was a knife found about 4 months ago. It was found in the yard next door, a child had found it. Unfortunately, there was no dna evidence on it. How she knew there was a knife involved is beyond me. About the release, I think I have a copy at home, but I'm pretty sure it was NOT like that one. They did edit out some of what she said to me. I was so nervous that I couldn't really even talk. They made me go first and i was not prepared. To this day I can barely talk about Angie without breaking down. I will post more tomorrow. Till then...thank you again...I need this kind of outlet right now. Debbie...always missing Angie.

[Reno]

angiesonlymom,

condolences on the loss of your daughter. I hope the murderer receives a similar fate.

[Arus808]

Thank you Deborah, for joining this forum. As you can see from the various posts here, we are very skeptical about Sylvia Browne and he so called "predictions". The Transcript of the show that you appeared on, is provided in this thread, and i hope that it doesn't pain you to read over what was said while on the show.

Please do not think our skepticism of SB's claims on the show you were on, in any way shape or form, is attacking the tragic events that surrounded your daughter's death. She was a very beautiful girl. Im glad that the police have caught the man who was involved in her death, and he is going to prison for his crime.


When you do have time, and you find you have the strength, please review the transcript provided. We would like to see what was really said, and your opinions of what SB said to you. I know its quite one thing to be on a tv show, and another to be in front of someone who has a large following, so we can understand that you were nervous to be there.

And as stated, please also visit the site www.stopsylvia.com when you do have a chance.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I read the article about the sentencing and, I have to say, I find it amazing and touching that you and your former spouse requested that Ashby not face the death penalty because of your daughter's feelings about it.

You're probably right to not reveal the name of someone accused by Browne but is it safe to say that the name was not "Anthony" (or any other name this man went by)?

If I can ask, what are your feelings about psychics and psychic detectives? Your family consulted a few other ones ; would you say they were more or less accurate than Browne? Or about the same?

[RSL's better half]

Hello, Deborah. I am so very sorry about the loss of your child. I hope you are able to work your way through the grief by coming to this place. I can tell you from experience that there are a lot of wonderful, caring people here who, while they are inquisitive and skeptical, have your best interest at heart.

My husband, Robert Lancaster, owns the site others have directed you to: www.StopSylvia.com. He is recovering from a stroke he survived in August. I know he would love to talk with you, possibly after the holidays. Could I ask you to send him a private message with your email address or phone number?

God bless.
Susan Lancaster

[angiesonlymom]

Absolutely!! I am more than willing to speak about my experience through this whole terrible nightmare. The name she gave me was not even close to Anthony Ashby. My feelings on psychics has changed from believing to skeptical (at least where Sylvia Brown is concerned). The other psychics involved in my daughters case were very accurate. It's just frustrating that at the time they could not pin down a name. If they did, I was not made aware of that. Sylvia Brown was not helpful at all! The others were able to confirm a lot of things that we already knew to be true. Most of which had not been released. I still wonder if I did the right thing by going along with the plea deal, but I can't look back now. I was incredibly desperate to have my daughters murderer put behind bars. That is why we looked for alternative sources to at least give it a try. I did have one psychic ask me if I or my daughter knew of a Anthony or Tony. This was more than a year before any of us knew of Anthony Ashby.

[angiesonlymom]

I have to admit that it was extremely difficult to not want the death penalty. However, the prosecutor in our case was against it from the beginning due to the fact that Ashby would have been given 3 to 4 lawyers to defend him ( because he had a public defender) and they would have picked our case apart. But, obviously, I want ultimate justice as Angie's mom. I just want everyone reading this to know that I am NOT a fan of Sylvia Brown. She was rude, intimidating, hateful and sarcastic. I felt like Angie's story certainly deserved a little more time on national t.v. if for no other reason, to get her story to a broader audience and maybe pull in some leads. Now, I feel a bit stupid.

[angiesonlymom]

I can also state that the name that Sylvia Browne gave me as having been a "friend" of my daughters killer simply did not exist. She said his name was "Fred". That's why I looked so puzzled when she said it.

[angiesonlymom]

Again I want to say thank you to everyone.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

That's terrible, Deborah. I'm very sorry that you got treated like that by Sylvia Browne and Montel.

Have you seen this article on StopSylvia.com?

http://stopsylvia.com/articles/scorecard_missingmurdered.shtml

There's one more; Robert forgot to add this case to it: http://stopsylvia.com/articles/montel_johniaberry.shtml

She's victimized hundreds of families of missing/ murdered people and often delayed and hurt police investigations. It's probably not much comfort to you but some of the families were lied to and deceived in even worse ways than she lied to you.

I think you did the right thing by taking the plea deal. It got him to admit his guilt and put him in prison for the next three decades. He'll be an old man when he gets out and he'll never hurt anyone again.

Do you know if Ashby ever revealed his motive? One of the articles mentioned that he was in prison before for burglary; was it possible that it was a robbery gone wrong?

Edit: What specifically makes you say that she was rude? I know she's usually cold and dismissive to everyone in the audience but it honestly didn't seem to me that she said anything particularly inappropriate to you. Was it a matter of the show being edited down to not show her sulking and rolling her eyes and so on?

[desertgal]

BROWNE: Yeah, you know how long it took them to gut Bundy.

Ted Bundy's earliest known, established murders were committed in 1974. He was first arrested in 1975. He escaped in June, 1977, and was re-arrested six days later. He escaped again in December of 1977, and was re-arrested less than two months later. That one stuck.

By that timeline, it took law enforcement one year, two months, and six days to capture Ted Bundy. Given how cagey Bundy was, the paucity of evidence, and the limits of forensic science in the 70's, that's actually not long at all. In fact, it was pretty damn good-and it's an insult to the detectives who lived and breathed the Bundy case for Browne to even obscurely suggest that they were somehow inept.

Browne has, I think, confused Ted Bundy with Gary Ridgway, and she didn't "work" on either case, regardless of any claim she might make to the contrary.

Slight thread drift, but I had to point that out. A tiny example of Browne's habit of pretending to be knowledgeable about a subject she is actually quite ignorant of.

[Steelmage]

My question is why isn't anyone going after Montel for keep on bringing on his show?

[angiesonlymom]

I would like to know why Montel kept bringing her back. Especially when she was just down right hateful to people. She had big diamond rings on and big diamond bracelets and I felt as though she was looking down her nose at me. Considering how vulnerable I was and how desperate I was you would think she or Montel would have shown a little compassion. However, I have to admit that I approached Montels show so I guess they look at it like I got what I deserved because I approached them?? I'm willing to take the blame for my experience with Sylvia Browne, and I will not make that mistake again ever.

[angiesonlymom]

Yes, I have read the article on stopsylvia.com. There were moments edited out. She came across to me as being somewhat put off or just uncaring. There was a moment during a break when everyone is required to be very quiet, during this time I was crying, but only to myself not out loud. But I cried through the entire show after she talked to me. I could not stop crying. As I sat looking at her, she slowly turned her head and gave me the most evil look I have ever seen in my life. Honestly, I have only shared this experience with a few very close friends and family members. It terrified me. I could not wait to get out of there. I guess what it boils down to is that I felt as though I was just being told what they thought I needed to hear. Nothing more. Also, Ashby has not revealed a motive for murdering my daughter. The police have publicly said that this was a botched burglary attempt, but privately there is a different story to which we still do not have all the answers.

[shadron]

There have been attempts to find out why Montel kept bringing Sylvia onto his show. There are transcripts of a conversation that Montel did at one time where he says that he personally doesn't believe in her, but she is popular, and that is the lifeblood of his profession of TV personalities. As Montel was once a Naval officer, Hal Bidlack, a well-known skeptic and an Air Force officer wrote Montel an open letter, officer to officer, asking about the honor of his "use" of Sylvia on his show. He never got a real reply.

See the evidence on StopSylvia.com here: http://stopsylvia.com/articles/montelresponsetoopenletter.shtml

In addition to the others here, Deborah, my condolences on our daughter, and welcome to our forum.

[desertgal]

I would like to know why Montel kept bringing her back. Especially when she was just down right hateful to people. She had big diamond rings on and big diamond bracelets and I felt as though she was looking down her nose at me. Considering how vulnerable I was and how desperate I was you would think she or Montel would have shown a little compassion. However, I have to admit that I approached Montels show so I guess they look at it like I got what I deserved because I approached them?? I'm willing to take the blame for my experience with Sylvia Browne, and I will not make that mistake again ever.

No, please don't feel that way. It was not your responsibility. Whether you approached them or they approached you is beside the point. The point is that Sylvia Browne preys on the grieving and the distraught, and Montel Williams allowed her to do so simply, I think, for ratings. There's no other way to explain it. Montel Williams is not stupid. He MUST know that she is a fraud, and he, in essence, turned his back on the people she victimized in favor of popularity. The culpability is theirs, not yours.

I'm very sorry for your loss. :(

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Absolutely. Sylvia is the one who advertises herself as a psychic and professes to solve kidnappings, murders and other crimes. She's responsible for anyone who takes her seriously and seeks her help, the same way anyone who misrepresents themselves is responsible for their lies, from an unqualified doctor to the purveyors of "mischievous" Internet hoaxes.

I hope nothing bad happened to Name Bleeped because of this. How do you think she guessed that name? Is there any way she might have known?

[Steelmage]

You know if she diagnosis a disease that is illegal unless she has a medical license (which I am sure she does not have). Montel is a collaborator in this illegal activity, why hasn't anyone turn her over to the FDA. Why is she not arrested?

[desertgal]

You know if she diagnosis a disease that is illegal unless she has a medical license (which I am sure she does not have). Montel is a collaborator in this illegal activity, why hasn't anyone turn her over to the FDA. Why is she not arrested?

The FDA is the Federal Drug Administration - they control pharmaceuticals, but they don't have anything to do with someone practicing medicine without a license. That would be the province of the regulatory board in each state.

In any case, advising someone that they might have a problem in a certain area, and recommending l-e-c-t-h-i-n is not illegal. It's a fairly gray area, anyway. A great many of us will tell friends and family that their symptoms "could be this or that" - and none of us who do so could be considered to be practicing medicine without a license.

Personally, if someone begins to believe that they have a particular ailment because SB "saw" it, and they start chugging down l-e-c-t-h-i-n, they ARE in need of help - from the nearest mental health professional.

[Darth Rotor]

That's terrible, Deborah. I'm very sorry that you got treated like that by Sylvia Browne and Montel.


Angie, very sorry about your lovely daughter. :( Glad they caught the perp.

Pursuant Eenyey's comment up there, did Montel Williams treat you badly? :confused:
My question is why isn't anyone going after Montel for keep on bringing on his show?
IIRC, Montel's show got cancelled for the 2008 2009 season. This announcement is from January 2008. (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117979859.html?categoryid=14&cs=1) What is showing now is a package of reruns.

@ Desertgal: FDA = Food and Drug Administration. http://www.fda.gov/

Puttin' the E into JREF. ;)

You know if she diagnosis a disease that is illegal unless she has a medical license (which I am sure she does not have). Montel is a collaborator in this illegal activity, why hasn't anyone turn her over to the FDA. Why is she not arrested?
Does it occur to you that the network this show was produced on has lawyers who might be able to give the show the guidance it needs to stay legal, as in "well within the gray area" on this matter? If what you say was that simple, they'd have taken her off the air a while back. I will also point out that I have never heard of Ms Browne represent herself as a medical professional. (If she had, she'd have been busted for a grotesque fraud.)

DR

[desertgal]

@ Desertgal: FDA = Food and Drug Administration. http://www.fda.gov/



Well, that was a blatant boo boo on my part-that'll teach me to type before my morning l-e-c-i-t-h-i-n. :blush:

Thanks for the correction. :)

My point still stands, though - the FDA does not regulate medical licenses or those who practice without one.

[angiesonlymom]

When I was at the Montel show, I thought we would all be introduced to him prior to being taken out to the stage. We were not. He really didn't even look me in the eye, except maybe once, but not for long. I felt as though he was purposely avoiding eye contact with me and that was not a good feeling. He was arrogant when the cameras were off, he was dancing in his chair as they showed film of him skiing down a slope somewhere. It was not at all what I had expected. If I had known, I would not have gone there. He did not shake anyones hand, he did not say hello, how are you, or anything. What you saw on the show is all there was.

[angiesonlymom]

I know that there is no way that Sylvia Browne could have known that I would know the person she was naming. I think that she actually looks surprised when i say that I know who that person is. This was someone absolutely not involved in this case in anyway. I don't think that they know they were being looked at as a potential suspect and I hope it stays that way...for their sake.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

It's the same story with every psychic detective. They come out the woodwork in droves on missing persons/murder cases, make a few vague predictions and then claim success when the case is resolved. Sometimes they claim success even if the case remains unsolved ("I told the police it was a local drifter by the name of Michael but they didn't look for him so he was never found"). They all do it for the money or for the publicity, except maybe a few that are convinced that they have genuine powers.

The only thing astonishing about them is that they somehow manage to get credit for solving cases.

This is off topic but I'm curious about what happened to Angie's boyfriend? Has he since moved on and found someone? Did he take part in the trial at all? Do you still stay in touch with him?

[desertgal]

The only thing astonishing about them is that they somehow manage to get credit for solving cases.


From whom? I've yet to see a police department publicly state that a psychic cracked a case for them, or was even correct in the details. Sure, supporters will often give the psychic credit - but, then, most of SB's supporters say that she has been right thousands upon thousands of times, without offering a single provable instance.

Otherwise, mostly what you hear is "So and So has aided police departments across the country in cases for decades." Translation: crackpot called the police hotline.

[blutoski]

From whom? I've yet to see a police department publicly state that a psychic cracked a case for them, or was even correct in the details. Sure, supporters will often give the psychic credit - but, then, most of SB's supporters say that she has been right thousands upon thousands of times, without offering a single provable instance.

Otherwise, mostly what you hear is "So and So has aided police departments across the country in cases for decades." Translation: crackpot called the police hotline.

Actually, there are a lot of examples over the years where police have said that psychics have helped solve particular cases. This is because police are just a cross-section of the population, and many believe in this stuff and engage psychics when they get stumped.

The trick is to examine these testimonials themselves for accuracy: did the psychic actually contribute to solving the case? Or is just that the police officer involved was so ga-ga over the psychic that he forgets the misses and remembers the lucky hits, the same way people walk away from cold readings with glowing reports of accuracy.

[desertgal]

Actually, there are a lot of examples over the years where police have said that psychics have helped solve particular cases. This is because police are just a cross-section of the population, and many believe in this stuff and engage psychics when they get stumped.

The trick is to examine these testimonials themselves for accuracy: did the psychic actually contribute to solving the case? Or is just that the police officer involved was so ga-ga over the psychic that he forgets the misses and remembers the lucky hits, the same way people walk away from cold readings with glowing reports of accuracy.

Well, I stand corrected. :)

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Sylvia Browne was once paid by the police to give a reading on a case. For four hundred dollars for 30 minutes, she told them a bunch of nonsense about the victim's rejected homosexual stalker murdering him. The real killer was found 15 years later due to forensic evidence and police work, no thanks to Sylvia Browne.

Turns out the man was killed by a local kid, then 14, who was just trying to rob him.

Here's a quote from the detectives:

Martin said, "She gave us some pretty good information that we're looking into. She pointed us in the direction of the type of individual and told us what she believes happened prior to the homicide. "

"We were very impressed," Estevens said.

"This psychic is a police tool that we're using. Our investigation is a compilation of all our tools. "

[desertgal]

Sylvia Browne was once paid by the police to give a reading on a case. For four hundred dollars for 30 minutes, she told them a bunch of nonsense about the victim's rejected homosexual stalker murdering him. The real killer was found 15 years later due to forensic evidence and police work, no thanks to Sylvia Browne.

Well, so much for "never charging the police".

Has she ever told the truth about anything?

Turns out the man was killed by a local kid, then 14, who was just trying to rob him.

Here's a quote from the detectives:

Martin said, "She gave us some pretty good information that we're looking into. She pointed us in the direction of the type of individual and told us what she believes happened prior to the homicide. "

"We were very impressed," Estevens said.

"This psychic is a police tool that we're using. Our investigation is a compilation of all our tools. "

I hope I don't live in that jurisdiction.

[kakariki]

Sylvia Browne was once paid by the police to give a reading on a case. For four hundred dollars for 30 minutes, she told them a bunch of nonsense about the victim's rejected homosexual stalker murdering him. The real killer was found 15 years later due to forensic evidence and police work, no thanks to Sylvia Browne.

Turns out the man was killed by a local kid, then 14, who was just trying to rob him.


Wow. At least we now know she doesn't always claim it was a hispanic that committed the crime. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, this is what is really disgusting about her becoming involved in police investigations. How much time and what resources were wasted following her wrong guess. And how many gay men were wrongfully investigated and possibly harrassed because of it? Sickening.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Wow. At least we now know she doesn't always claim it was a hispanic that committed the crime. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, this is what is really disgusting about her becoming involved in police investigations. How much time and what resources were wasted following her wrong guess. And how many gay men were wrongfully investigated and possibly harrassed because of it? Sickening.

Oh yeah...I forgot to mention.

She said the killer was a "mulatto".

:o

[Steelmage]

Does it occur to you that the network this show was produced on has lawyers who might be able to give the show the guidance it needs to stay legal, as in "well within the gray area" on this matter? If what you say was that simple, they'd have taken her off the air a while back. I will also point out that I have never heard of Ms Browne represent herself as a medical professional. (If she had, she'd have been busted for a grotesque fraud.)

DR

Still if someone took her advice and got more ill or died then there is a possible lawsuit. So it is either that she gotten lucky or insist on seeing a doctor to "check it" that she is not in trouble.

[angiesonlymom]

I believe you hit the nail right on the head there. :)

[desertgal]

Still if someone took her advice and got more ill or died then there is a possible lawsuit. So it is either that she gotten lucky or insist on seeing a doctor to "check it" that she is not in trouble.

Possible lawsuit, yes. But the key phrase is "took her advice". Browne does not profess to be a doctor of medicine. People who take her advice do so at their own risk, and should be aware that psychic power does not take the place of a medical diagnosis-and I'll bet Williams' legal advisers cooked up an ironclad waiver for audience members that specifies something to that effect. In light of that, chances of such a lawsuit being thrown out of court are high. There's no clear violation of law there.

[ExMinister]

It's just that the kind of disclaimers currently accepted as legal seem totally unfair. A legitimate one should have to read, "I, said psychic, possess no greater powers than any other normal human being and my advice is no more valuable than anyone else's, and much less so than your doctor's, your own family and friends who know you, or that of your local police force, whichever is relevant."

By claiming psychic (superhuman) insight and a "direct pipeline to God" via a spirit guide, when a psychic gives out medical or other advice, won't the believers consider her advice superior to a doctor's (limited human) or any other ordinary human advice, no matter how she or he disclaims it?

True the individual is responsible for the choice to act on such advice, but if a psychic did not set themselves up as having magical powers of perception in the first place, it wouldn't happen. I've seen time and again that when people turn to a psychic (and are willing to pay such high fees), it's in hope that they will receive some sort of "ultimate" answer, meaning unless the answer is so far off base as to lose all credibility, they WILL take it more seriously.

[desertgal]

It's just that the kind of disclaimers currently accepted as legal seem totally unfair. A legitimate one should have to read, "I, said psychic, possess no greater powers than any other normal human being and my advice is no more valuable than anyone else's, and much less so than your doctor's, your own family and friends who know you, or that of your local police force, whichever is relevant."

I agree. I've never seen the waiver that Montel Williams provided to his audience members - have to check RSL's site to see if there is a copy on there - but if it contains the "for entertainment purposes only" catchphrase, then I think that it is the same thing, isn't it?

By claiming psychic (superhuman) insight and a "direct pipeline to God" via a spirit guide, when a psychic gives out medical or other advice, won't the believers consider her advice superior to a doctor's (limited human) or any other ordinary human advice, no matter how she or he disclaims it?


Yes, they would. But, that doesn't mean they have a legitimate legal claim if she turns out to be wrong. Since psychic insight has never been proven to exist, then it boils down to personal belief-and I'm not sure anyone can prove fraud on that basis.

[angiesonlymom]

Oh my gosh, I just clicked on the link to the YouTube video of my appearance on Montel. It was devestating to watch all over again. She is a fake. I watched a validation video of a lady named Mary Jo who was brought back because she found the ring that was missing from her mother after she passed. Mary Jo was on the same episode as I was. I wonder why I wasn't asked back???:D Could it be because she was soooo wrong??

[TheSkepticCanuck]

True the individual is responsible for the choice to act on such advice, but if a psychic did not set themselves up as having magical powers of perception in the first place, it wouldn't happen. I've seen time and again that when people turn to a psychic (and are willing to pay such high fees), it's in hope that they will receive some sort of "ultimate" answer, meaning unless the answer is so far off base as to lose all credibility, they WILL take it more seriously.

That seems to be the main crux of the issue. When people are willing to give someone a large sum of money for advice and guidance, there is almost a need to follow said advice, otherwise you'd feel like the money was wasted. So, most people will likely follow paid for advice, unless the advice is so bad that the person paying for it can't help but notice how bad it is.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Deborah, do you want to hear the worst story about a guest being invited for a second show?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=92123

I can't believe Montel got away with that. He must think his viewers have no memories.

[desertgal]

Deborah, do you want to hear the worst story about a guest being invited for a second show?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=92123

I can't believe Montel got away with that. He must think his viewers have no memories.

I don't understand something in that transcript.

In the summation of her story at the beginning, Mrs. Torres specifically said that she became pregnant with her late husband's frozen sperm. Then, when she was talking to Browne, there was this exchange:

LINDA: And I have another question. Does he know he has a child?

Ms. BROWNE: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: By another person?

LINDA: By another person.

Ms. BROWNE: Honey, they know everything, absolutely.

I don't understand what they mean when they say "by another person". Are they referring to the pregnancy? Or I am reading something wrong?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Lt. Torres had an illegitimate son with a former girlfriend. He neither kept in touch with her or with his son and had no relationship with either of them when he died.

I believe this was before his marriage.

Maybe that's what it's about.

Edit: That theory doesn't make much sense, either, because the ex-girlfriend claims that he knew perfectly well that she was pregnant.

Then, maybe his wife did not know that.

[desertgal]

Lt. Torres had an illegitimate son with a former girlfriend. He neither kept in touch with her or with his son and had no relationship with either of them when he died.

I believe this was before his marriage.

Maybe that's what it's about.

Edit: That theory doesn't make much sense, either, because the ex-girlfriend claims that he knew perfectly well that she was pregnant.

Then, maybe his wife did not know that.

Seems strange, then, that his wife would know he had another child, if he didn't. But, that's a whole other can of worms.

Thanks for the clarification-I was baffled.

After reading about his altercation with the fan in Florida (?), his lack of response to the uproar surrounding Browne, and his continued sponsorship of her after her errors on his show, I'm of the opinion that Williams didn't care what his viewers thought or remembered, as long as they tuned in.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

For what it's worth, he had the affair before he married Linda but while he was her boyfriend/fiance.

His mistress was a female soldier he had met when stationed in Fort Campbell in 1998. He married Linda in 1999 but had been dating her since high school- he graduated high school in 1996- and knew her since they were both 14.

Now, I do not condone adultery under any circumstances- outside or inside of a marriage- and conducting an affair with a colleague in Kentucky while another woman waits for you in New Jersey is particularly distasteful but maybe it's a good thing that he produced an heir, considering what later happened to him.

[Questioninggeller]

Here is a statement from law enforcement about psychics on the Angela Lee case:


Man faces charges in Angela Lee slaying
By MAGGIE BORMAN
The Telegraph (http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/ashby-1055-murder-lee.html)
April 27, 2007 4:39 PM


...
Normal investigative practices were used from the beginning of the case, as well as monetary rewards offered by the family and Macoupin/Montgomery Crime Stoppers. On three occasions, psychics were called in at the request of the family to study the case and crime scene, and annual press conferences were held near the anniversary of Lee’s death to keep the case in front of the public. The psychics did not provide any substantive leads, authorities said.
...


Full: The Telegraph (http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/ashby-1055-murder-lee.html)