Why meditation works

[Matty1973]

Several of my (otherwise quite sensible) friends have said they get a lot of benefit from meditation. I have always thought of it as woo or placebo at best. Do people here have any positive experiences of it. I promised one friend I would attend a local buddhist temple with them and listen to a lecture. I have a feeling I am going to find it difficult to listen without thinking it is all mumbo jumbo.

I saw an article today claiming to explain why it works:
h t t p ://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070630/sc_livescience/brainscansrevealwhymeditationworks
(sorry can't post links - remove the spaces)

Before I try and understand why it works, my question is does it actually work?

[Freethinker]

Here's your link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070630/sc_livescience/brainscansrevealwhymeditationworks

I'll go have a read.

[Freethinker]

I don't have the expertise to comment on what was discussed in the article, but stopping to relax and concentrate on your problems seems like a practical way to reduce stress. All of the woo bling that people add to it is just useless BS.

[Miss Anthrope]

I don't have the expertise to comment on what was discussed in the article, but stopping to relax and concentrate on your problems seems like a practical way to reduce stress. All of the woo bling that people add to it is just useless BS.

Seconded by another non-expert.

[Moochie]

I don't have the expertise to comment on what was discussed in the article, but stopping to relax and concentrate on your problems seems like a practical way to reduce stress. All of the woo bling that people add to it is just useless BS.

Yeah, that's how TM manages to put a price on something that can be learned, free of charge.

M.

ETA: I am also a non-expert who should meditate more and drink less. :)

[Hourglassmemory]

The basis of meditation can work. All you do is stand still and relax and try not to think. even I would do that, If I had the patience and actually knew how to do it.

Of course buhdists and such will penetrate this with glittering souls and reeincarnations and such beliefs.

[JonWhite]

I learned TM many years ago. It really is just re-packaged mantra meditation wrapped in huge amounts of BS. One key selling point is that they "assess" you and give your very own personal mantra - by all accounts these mantras are simply Sanskrit words for table or chair leg or something!

I did practice it for quite a few years but not as twice-a-day religiously as they say to, and did have a few cool OBE type head trips which I attribute to it (but only due to being in the hypnogogic state half way between waking and sleeping).

In terms of general stress relief then I'd say it is of value, but I wouldn't take it any further. Personally if I feel the need to de-stress nowadays, I use self-hypnosis relaxation methods instead.

[arthwollipot]

I found doing tai chi good for this. My problem with meditation is that I get bored and distracted. Tai chi means that I actually am concentrating on doing something as an aid.

Of course, there was a lot of woo. Ignorable.

[T'ai Chi]

I like taijiquan, mainly because I get good balance from it, and more sensitive doing it, and feel the air take on a water-like quality, and become more relaxed from that.

When you're more relaxed you can move faster too, which helps with my foil fencing, among other things.

[Matty1973]

QUOTE: JonWhite

I did practice it for quite a few years but not as twice-a-day religiously as they say to, and did have a few cool OBE type head trips which I attribute to it (but only due to being in the hypnogogic state half way between waking and sleeping).


Jon,

My friend said while meditating he has experienced things far stronger than any drug induced trip (and he has had a few) - is this the kind of thing you had with OBE's? Is it worth the practice it takes to achieve it?
If there was a way of experiencing that kind of effect in what is presumably a very safe way to do it I would have thought everyone would be doing it - and regularly.

[JonWhite]

Jon,

My friend said while meditating he has experienced things far stronger than any drug induced trip (and he has had a few) - is this the kind of thing you had with OBE's? Is it worth the practice it takes to achieve it?
If there was a way of experiencing that kind of effect in what is presumably a very safe way to do it I would have thought everyone would be doing it - and regularly.

Hi Matty (welcome to the forum).

The experiences I had from meditation were very few and far between, and occurred over the course of many years. They were always unexpected and never controlled. Indeed the moment I became consciously aware in a "what the f**k!" kind of way the experience stopped. I'm not sure practise would help. At least my experiences were "real" in the spontaneous sense rather than simply a product of wishful thinking, hope and belief. As I said I believe they were due to simply being in the hypnogogic state between awake and asleep. The moment the suprise of the experiences registered, it was enough to return me to normal consciousness and the experience would accordingly stop.

Personally, compared to hallucinogens I would say the drug experiences were better - during a very mis-spent youth I wolfed down more than my fair share of acid and mushrooms. Both types of experiences always felt very (un)real and being very different are hard to really compare, but with the drugs they were far more prolonged and one could obviously choose as and when to have them.

I know some people differ. When learning TM I was told by the teacher that he used to do acid but stopped having discovered TM, which was much better. I was seriously hopeful, but in this as so many other areas the TM hype sadly fell far short of the reality.

Ulimately the few head trips I had from meditation were not sufficient for me to keep up the practise. As with Arthwollipot, I often found the meditation quite boring just sitting endlessly repeating the mantra or returning to it after mentally wandering off. I find that using progressive relaxation and other self-hypnotic techniques allows me to get equally as relaxed whilst being more involving. I've not had a good head trip though, but I don't do it very often nowadays anyway.

Obviously as a now responsible'ish adult, I would not advise taking the drugs route.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I am, contrary to what some people are willing to believe, a trained teacher of Transcendental Meditation (3 months in Iowa, 3 in Italy). When I practiced TM, I found it relaxing, pleasurable, and occasionally euphoric. In spite of this, I don't practice it anymore.

I exited the TM movement when the sidhi program started up, promising us the ability to walk through walls, fly, and talk to animals.

~~ Paul

[MRC_Hans]

A lot of relaxation programs, stress release exercises, etc. are reallt equivalent to meditation. I think it is a reasonably established fact that concentrating on something peaceful, trying to empty your mind for a while helps you relaxing, feel less tressed, and thus better.

Like so many woo things, there is a core of reality and good sense in it. It's a bit like Feng Shui: Get rid of superfluous stuff, make your room simple and pleasant to look at, have your things where you can find them when you need them, is simply good advice. Just forget the nonsense about energy flows and stuff.

Hans

[JonWhite]

I am, contrary to what some people are willing to believe, a trained teacher of Transcendental Meditation (3 months in Iowa, 3 in Italy). When I practiced TM, I found it relaxing, pleasurable, and occasionally euphoric. In spite of this, I don't practice it anymore.

I exited the TM movement when the sidhi program started up, promising us the ability to walk through walls, fly, and talk to animals.

~~ Paul

Absolutely. One of the most profound, peak euphoric experiences I've ever had was after a TM meditation.

I'd spent two insanely stressful weeks working in the Gaza Strip. When the Muslims I was staying with did evening prayer, I sat outside and meditated for about 25 mins, the meditation didn't even feel particularly deep. Afterwards however and for the rest of the evening I had a genuine calm and happiness unlike any other. Of course I see it only in terms of a response to the build up and rapid release of a huge amount of stress, but for me it at least proved meditation as a great de-stress tool.

The TM mob seriously lost the plot with the Sidhi's though. I believe that they make excuses for it never working due to negativity or something and now don't actively promote them.

[Beleth]

I exited the TM movement when the sidhi program started up, promising us the ability to walk through walls, fly, and talk to animals.
My father-in-law, as I mention whenever I have half a chance to, is a practicing TMer. First thing in the morning for an hour, then right before dinner for an hour. He does seem pretty relaxed although his wife, who practices it with him although with not the same amount of fervor, does not.

The best quote about TM I've ever heard came from his sister, who once said "Yeah, I'd like to take a nap too while everyone else is making dinner."

[Q-Source]

Meditation works if you know how to empty your mind of thoughts and feelings. The question we should ask is: what are the benefits of having an empty mind? I was thinking the other day that most of my thinking is rubbish, I am either thinking on past events or future events. Meditation requires you to stop doing this and concentrate on here and now, which is what brings peace and relaxation.
It sounds easy to do but in reality is very difficult to achieve. So, for anyone who can do this, meditation works.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Meditation works if you know how to empty your mind of thoughts and feelings. The question we should ask is: what are the benefits of having an empty mind? I was thinking the other day that most of my thinking is rubbish, I am either thinking on past events or future events. Meditation requires you to stop doing this and concentrate on here and now, which is what brings peace and relaxation.
Some forms of meditation, such as TM, require no concentration at all. If TM required concentration, I never would have practiced it. Way too much work.

~~ Paul

[dannagain]

read 'sit downa dn shut up' by brad warner. it is a very good book on real buddhism compared to woo buddhism

he also has a website:

http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/

and a blog

http://www.hardcorezen.blogspot.com/

[Aoidoi]

I exited the TM movement when the sidhi program started up, promising us the ability to walk through walls, fly, and talk to animals.

~~ PaulI can do all those things. You see, there are these things called doors, and these other things called planes...

And animals don't seem to mind when I talk to them. In fact, I talk to the rabbits in my yard on a regular basis. Usually stuff like "STOP EATING MY FLOWERS YOU LITTLE <RULE 8>"

[RatBoy]

Though I don't have a great deal of experience with this, I went through a phase in my twenties where I actually tried to "health up" - eating right, jogging, exercise, and meditation.

It did wonders to enhance my calm and clear my head during times of stress. During a trip to the doctor for some minimal would - knee sprain, as I recall - I meditated before my visit, and in the examination room before the visit. My resting pulse was 54 (and I've never been THAT healthy!), and my BP was something like 105/65.

Never achieved any enlightened metaphysical states or anything truly mind expanding, though.

[In My Spare Time]

When you're more relaxed you can move faster too, which helps with my foil fencing, among other things.

Whenever I'm struggling athletically, I make an effort to force myself to relax. I don't see any woo aspects here, just a benefit to keeping opposing muscles from working against each other. Good/great athletes generally look totally relaxed when performing and if meditation is the method used to create that relaxation, go for it.

[arthwollipot]

When you're more relaxed you can move faster too, which helps with my foil fencing, among other things.

Tenseness is the enemy of anything where explosive movement is required. Fencing, boxing, martial arts, sprinting, you name it. One of the main things I have to remember when teaching newbies to use a sword is to relax.

There's a state of "relaxed readiness" where your muscles are not tense, but can still react suddenly. This is essential to the fencer and the sprinter alike.

[Phrost]

There's also a component of being singularly focused on accomplishing something that meditation can help with, especially in athletic endeavors.

Without any woo whatsoever.