Other Skeptical Organizations and JREF

[DRBUZZ0]

I was just wondering what other major skeptical organizations are out there and whether or not they are "Allied" with the JREF. With such a highly opposed area like skeptism, it seems like it would be pretty important to keep the alliances strong and not spread the troops too thin. Also, to assure that skeptism is not mixed with psuedo skeptism.

I know that the Skeptic Society (http://www.skeptic.com/) was well represented at the Amazing meeting and that others like Skepchick (http://www.skepchick.org) are very much part of the JREF family, as well as Dawkins and others being friends.

I do not recall seeing any representatives from Csicop (http://www.csicop.org/), which is apparently now CSI at TAM5. Is the organization working with JREF at all?

I understand Randi left CSICOP due to legal disputes and wanting to be sure the society was insulated from any litigation against Randi. Has this resulted in a complete falling out? or are they still "friends" of JREF?

just wanted to figure that out, mostly

[JJM 777]

How would you define "skepticism" and "pseudo-skepticism"?

How would religious groups such as Southern Baptists rate on the scale, who deny any divine phenomenons affecting the world in present time (thus being nicely married with naturalist science), but expect an afterlife?

[Loxton]

CSICOP folks are reasonably well-represented at TAM. For example, CSICOP's Joe Nickell spoke at TAM3, and Ben Radford -- Managing Editor of the Skeptical Inquirer -- spoke at both TAM4 and TAM5.

Also, the great Ray Hyman (a CSICOP founding member) was in the audience at TAM4. I had the distinct honor of posing with him for a photograph...

[SomeGuy]

We pretend to be not all affiliated with eachother because the alien overlords behind the skeptical movement don't want to alert our opponents that we all share the same goal.

At least not untill we have been able to establish the new world order.

[CFLarsen]

How would you define "skepticism" and "pseudo-skepticism"?

How would religious groups such as Southern Baptists rate on the scale, who deny any divine phenomenons affecting the world in present time (thus being nicely married with naturalist science), but expect an afterlife?

What do you mean, "rate"? What "scale"?

[Electric Monk]

CSICOP folks are reasonably well-represented at TAM. For example, CSICOP's Joe Nickell spoke at TAM3, and Ben Radford -- Managing Editor of the Skeptical Inquirer -- spoke at both TAM4 and TAM5.

Also, the great Ray Hyman (a CSICOP founding member) was in the audience at TAM4. I had the distinct honor of posing with him for a photograph...
Also, Jim Underdown (executive director of CFI-West (http://cfiwest.org/)) spoke at TAM 1. CFI is the parent of both CSI (http://www.csicop.org/) and CSH (http://www.secularhumanism.org/).

[Cleon]

Jim was at TAM5, too.

Most skeptical organizations have no problem working with each other; locally, nationally, and internationally. In the US, there are three major national groups: Skeptics Society, the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (formerly known as CSICOP, it is a branch of the Center for Inquiry), and JREF.

I won't go into the whole sordid history, but there's some bad blood between Randi and a very small but powerful minority in CSI/CFI's leadership that goes back some years. The result of this is that you won't see CSI/CFI officially endorsing JREF or coming to TAM (or vice-versa), but many individuals affiliated with CSI/CFI (such as Joe, Jim, Ray, and many others) are more than happy to lend their support.

Beyond that unfortunate situation (which I suspect will permanently resolve itself in a couple of years), skeptics tend to be one big hap--well, maybe not "happy," but let's say "content"--family. The problem is that we're a very small family, and rather incestuous.

[DRBUZZ0]

How would you define "skepticism" and "pseudo-skepticism"?

How would religious groups such as Southern Baptists rate on the scale, who deny any divine phenomenons affecting the world in present time (thus being nicely married with naturalist science), but expect an afterlife?

If you have to ask, I think I already know which group... oh never mind. Much as i'd like to go down that road, I will not.

[Loxton]

Also, Jim Underdown...spoke at TAM 1.

Yes, I'd forgotten to mention him. (He was also at TAM4, where he related, in that wonderful deadpan, his extremely succinct response to the Scientology rent-a-cops who tried to confiscate his film of himself fingering the sign outside their headquarters...)

[RSLancastr]

Jim was at TAM5, too.He also presented a paper at TAM4.

[DRBUZZ0]

I have wondered about CSI, because I do not hear much about them from the jref side, and yet everything I have seen is that they are entirely up the ally of what JREF, and I personally, want to be part of.

I have seen Randi mentioned on CSI things, and always in the most positive light, and I know Jerry Andrus, and some others I admire are involved in the organization.

I suppose I am wondering, because I had heard them referred to as a "rival" skeptical organization somewhere-or-other, but I'm not sure why skeptical organizations would be rivals.

[Cuddles]

An important thing to remember is that skepticism isn't just one thing. Different people have interests in different areas. Randi and the JREF focus more on exposing frauds, while others do actual research or look at specific phenomena. Your ideas seem to be getting close to T'ai Chi's idea of an Organised Skeptical Movement(tm). People just don't work like that. If one skeptic group and another look at similar areas then they might get along and work together or they might not. If they look at different areas then they might never have anything to do with each other at all.

Think of charities. Oxfam and MSF do a lot of similar work in similar places, and will often work together. On the other hand Oxfam also does a lot that MSF has nothing to do with, and vice versa. The RSPCC has pretty much nothing in common with either of them. They are all bound together by the same principles of helping others, but they do so in different ways and in different places. Other charities might even do exactly the same, but just not want to be part of a larger organisation. Now replace "charity" with "skeptic" and the names with some skeptical organisations and you have exactly the same situation.