William Rodriguez journeys

[Totovader]

Citing a disagreement with Rodriguez's political views, the Graythwaite Manor Hotel (England) announced today that he is no longer allowed to stay there- he was also scheduled to speak there tonight, but has moved that engagement to another location.

What struck me as most odd was the response from Rodriguez:

I have tried to tell my story to everybody, but nobody wants to listen. It is very strange what is going on here in supposedly the most democratic country in the world. In my home country of Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can't even say a word.

The irony hurts.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=517168

[CHF]

I'm sure the boys at the local mosque will lend an ear.

But only if he blames the Jooos.

[Brainster]

Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about this one. Unless there's some good reason to suspect that Rodriguez's presence in the hotel will cause a ruckus (and apparently he's not giving a speech there, but elsewhere, then I'm a little uncomfortable with it while standing up for the owner's right to refuse service to him. Banning somebody from a hotel for their political views is not the same as banning them for their race.

[Foolmewunz]

Totovader,
Has the story of him being not allowed to stay there been verified? Published anywhere? Not doubting your veracity - you've always got solid information.

It just sounds strange. Only in William's mind is he so important that someone would ban him from their premises. Maybe his credit card was bad?

[fezzic]

Note from the linked article:

He was due back at the hotel tonight and tomorrow night as the guest of owners Jimmy and Jane Duncan.

In a statement Graythwaite Manor Hotel said: "After careful consideration, the new management of Graythwaite Manor Hotel has decided to postpone William Rodriguez visit to the hotel due to his political views.

A google search on Graythwaite Manor Hotel turned up that the [current?] owner is: Auchlochan Trust. Seems to tally with the "new management" idea.

As for the new owners, Auchlochan Trust, I found this snippet: “The Auchlochan Trust, a charitable trust recognised as one of highest quality care providers in Scotland,..."

Source: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2005/04/05/newsstory6982790t0.asp (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2005/04/05/newsstory6982790t0.asp)

[Civilized Worm]

Yet another twoofer who doesn't understand what censoreship is.

[Totovader]

Totovader,
Has the story of him being not allowed to stay there been verified? Published anywhere? Not doubting your veracity - you've always got solid information.

It just sounds strange. Only in William's mind is he so important that someone would ban him from their premises. Maybe his credit card was bad?

Besides that one article- no, I didn't see any reason to doubt it, though.

To us it's a pretty big story- but to the rest of the world, it may only be covered in small-town papers.

[Calcas]

To us it's a pretty big story- but to the rest of the world, it may only be covered in small-town papers.

If you mean by "us", the CT and skeptic crowd, I disagree that it's even a big story in our neck of the woods.

He's just another CT nut trying to spin his 15 seconds of fame into a business. I congratulate anyone who steps up and says, in effect, "not in my house."

I also think it's funny that he can't seem to understand why the third world countries are much more open minded than the Brits, Americans, etc. LOL.

[William_Rodriguez]

Citing a disagreement with Rodriguez's political views, the Graythwaite Manor Hotel (England) announced today that he is no longer allowed to stay there- he was also scheduled to speak there tonight, but has moved that engagement to another location.

What struck me as most odd was the response from Rodriguez:



The irony hurts.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=517168

Really Odd indeed since I never spoke with the reporter. He took a quote from years ago and pasted it on his article. The good thing is that we indeed had one of the biggest event there due to the controversy. I am also in contact with the manager of the Hotel and no hard feelings on either part. Good came out from this, better than we expected.
Picture will be posted later of the full audience from the video shot.


William Rodriguez Escape Artist
http://911stories.googlepages.com/home

[~enigma~]

Really Odd indeed since I never spoke with the reporter. He took a quote from years ago and pasted it on his article. The good thing is that we indeed had one of the biggest event there due to the controversy. I am also in contact with the manager of the Hotel and no hard feelings on either part. Good came out from this, better than we expected.
Picture will be posted later of the full audience from the video shot.


William Rodriguez Escape Artist
http://911stories.googlepages.com/homeI am still waiting for your reason that the SYP let you verify Jackchit was arrested while they refused to answer a legal FOI request. Have you fully stepped in woo now?

[William_Rodriguez]

I am still waiting for your reason that the SYP let you verify Jackchit was arrested while they refused to answer a legal FOI request. Have you fully stepped in woo now?

You are waiting? who gave you the power to request explanations from me?
Why don't you do your own research by getting into a car and go over there yourself as I did. For your information, I did not know who in the world was Jackchit until that day

[~enigma~]

You are waiting? who gave you the power to request explanations from me?
Why don't you do your own research by getting into a car and go over there yourself as I did. For your information, I did not know who in the world was Jackchit until that day
When someone slings what I consider a lie, I ask them to back it up. They always can refuse but that just cements the fasct of their lie to me. So are you going to answer or are you just going to prove to me you are a liar? Although Chillzero and I aren't what you would call the best of friends I see no reason for her to lie about the FOI request but I do see plenty of reason for you to lie....what's it going to be?

[William_Rodriguez]

When someone slings what I consider a lie, I ask them to back it up. They always can refuse but that just cements the fasct of their lie to me. So are you going to answer or are you just going to prove to me you are a liar? Although Chillzero and I aren't what you would call the best of friends I see no reason for her to lie about the FOI request but I do see plenty of reason for you to lie....what's it going to be?

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I learned a lot here. Go and do your research yourself. I have a presentation to do in couple of minutes. later




William Rodriguez, Escape artist.

[Brainache]

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I learned a lot here. Go and do your research yourself. I have a show to do in couple of minutes. later




William Rodriguez, Escape artist.

My bold.

Oh what a give-away!

[DGM]

My bold.

Oh what a give-away!
Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I learned a lot here. Go and do your research yourself. I have a show to do in couple of minutes. later




William Rodriguez, Escape artist.

I see I'm not the only one that picked up on that.

[Gravy]

Citing a disagreement with Rodriguez's political views, the Graythwaite Manor Hotel (England) announced today that he is no longer allowed to stay there- he was also scheduled to speak there tonight, but has moved that engagement to another location.

What struck me as most odd was the response from Rodriguez:That's an old quote, about the U.S. Of course, no one has stopped Rodriguez from telling his story. Rodriguez did have a speaking engagement canceled by a hotel in England that had supposedly received a complaint about the behavior of a truther who was promoting the engagement.

Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about this one. Unless there's some good reason to suspect that Rodriguez's presence in the hotel will cause a ruckus (and apparently he's not giving a speech there, but elsewhere, then I'm a little uncomfortable with it while standing up for the owner's right to refuse service to him. Banning somebody from a hotel for their political views is not the same as banning them for their race.This is a tricky one. It's a very small, posh hotel (http://www.graythwaitemanor.co.uk/) in a very small town, and I can understand the owners making a personal decision to ban Rodriguez. I would also understand it if they had received a complaint and said, "Sorry, the political views of our guests are none of our business, or yours."

$140 for a single at the Graythwaite. Not exactly a Travelodge. No wonder Rodriguez wouldn't answer when I asked him who was funding this tour.

Some quotes from that article that stuck in my craw (bolding mine):

Mr Rodriguez, a former janitor credited with saving countless lives on 9/11, is due to give a talk on his experiences at the Victoria Hall in Grange tonight (july 5) as part of his European lecture tour.Yes, credited by himself, as I credit myself with owning 100 shares of Berkshire Hathaway.

Penny Pullen, from the peace group, said it was unclear to her why Mr Rodriguez would not be staying at the hotel....

“Mr Rodriguez does not present political views. He just presents his story and it’s up to everyone to do their research and find out what is the truth for themselves.”Gravy vomits in his mouth a little.

Regarded as a hero Rodriguez, who saved many lives on that fateful day...Still waiting for a tally. William?

I am still waiting for your reason that the SYP let you verify Jackchit was arrested while they refused to answer a legal FOI request. Have you fully stepped in woo now?I can assure you that Jason Holmes was not arrested.

My bold.

Oh what a give-away!Yes, he's putting on a magic show. "See the truth disappear before your very eyes!"

[Totovader]

Really Odd indeed since I never spoke with the reporter.

That isn't odd at all- unless you're a conspiracist and you want to try to use some of those quotes to your advantage (ie, "pull it").

He took a quote from years ago and pasted it on his article.

So you were referring to the US? How, exactly, have you been censored in the US?

The good thing is that we indeed had one of the biggest event there due to the controversy.

By what standards?

I am also in contact ith the manager of the Hotel and no hard feelings on either part. Good came out from this, better than we expected.

I really don't care. "Good"- to you- is different than what is morally or objectively good. I do not consider lying to be "good", even if it does benefit you personally.

Picture will be posted later of the full audience from the video shot.

There's no need to bother. We're all very much aware of your character and your desire to rub it in other peoples faces that you're "the man".

I'd much rather see some kind of a response to questions, or some of the promises you had made to speak to us in a formal manner.

We all know that won't happen- so instead... you post pictures proving you can lie to a large number of people at once? No thanks.

William Rodriguez Escape Artist
http://911stories.googlepages.com/home

I can see that you're pouting- but don't you think it would be a bit more effective if you instead posted a response to Gravy's site, instead of just pretend like you're not afraid of it. The fact that you lack a response seems to indicate to me that you're terrified of the truth.

[William_Rodriguez]

That isn't odd at all- unless you're a conspiracist and you want to try to use some of those quotes to your advantage (ie, "pull it").

pull out

So you were referring to the US? How, exactly, have you been censored in the US?

read Gravy's site

By what standards?
yours


I really don't care. "Good"- to you- is different than what is morally or objectively good. I do not consider lying to be "good", even if it does benefit you personally.

a matter of semantics of course.

There's no need to bother. We're all very much aware of your character and your desire to rub it in other peoples faces that you're "the man".
Your words not mine
I'd much rather see some kind of a response to questions, or some of the promises you had made to speak to us in a formal manner.
you missed out when I tried and yes, you were one of those atacking me
We all know that won't happen- so instead... you post pictures proving you can lie to a large number of people at once? No thanks.

so you do not want to see the video or the pictures, but instead want to point the initial part of the story? way to go

I can see that you're pouting- but don't you think it would be a bit more effective if you instead posted a response to Gravy's site, instead of just pretend like you're not afraid of it. The fact that you lack a response seems to indicate to me that you're terrified of the truth.

Terrified? hhahaha don't make me laugh. I choose who to answer, when to answer. Thank you Gravy and keep it coming, your attacks have been seen and people can choose what side to take. Their opinion. I also learned to enjoy and make the best of this and use your tirade proactively. Even sending them to my list of families in the group. They visited and comented on the threads. I am still fighting for them in a lot of issues and will not stop because you do not agree with it. My opinions , my experience and my approach.

You do not like it? get together a group of survivors and do your own show-presentation-demostration-exhibition-fair.


William Rodriguez Escape Artist

[Civilized Worm]

Hey 9/11 how's the tour going?

[Stellafane]

Hi William. I'd like to take the liberty of telling you a little story about myself. It's a very ordinary story, the kind that has happened to many, many people over the years. But its very ordinariness plays a crucial part in the point I hope to make.

Years ago, when I was in college, a group of us went camping. Some of us were fairly experienced campers, while others were total greenhorns. One of the greenhorns and I were sleeping by the campfire. Suddenly, I woke up to the sound of screaming. When I opened my eyes, my first impression was that I was on fire -- there were flames everywhere around me, all over the ground. It looked like I was in the center of some sort of sacrificial ritual. Then I looked over and saw someone entirely in flames. His shirt was ablaze, so was his hair, and he was waving his flaming hands all around like some macabre version of the Human Torch.

For a moment I wanted to run, go save myself, get away from all the fire around me. Then something I never knew was there kicked in -- I leaped out of my sleeping bag, snatched it off the ground, and jumped on my companion, finally smothering the fire that was burning him up. I then put out the flaming can of Coleman Lantern fuel (the poor fool had tried to restart the campfire by pouring it directly onto the glowing coals) and finally stamped out the scattered pools of fire that had nearly set me ablaze. The whole thing was over in maybe 15 seconds.

Afterwards, as we drove the burn victim to the hospital, a couple of my friends told me that I was something of a minor hero, having saved a life with some quick action, arguably while in some personal danger. It was cool for about 15 minutes. And then it was over. And all these years, I've never bothered to mention this story to anyone, until right this moment. Why should I? Ultimately, whatever role I played in saving my friend's life was absolutely secondary to the fact that he successfully recovered without lasting injuries.

By now I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at. All over the place, every day, we walk by people whose personal histories include stories like mine, many vastly more impressive and meaningful, incidents of courage and quick thinking in the face of personal danger. But they don't define their lives by it; they did what was required of them at the moment, and then they got on with their lives. Forgive my presumption, but isn't it possible that there's something to be learned by their example?

[Gravy]

You never called the person I told you to call in a private e-mail, but again that is your prerogative.You're right: I never called James Randi about you, nor did you give me any reason to. Does he have some Svengali-like control over your behavior?

[Gravy]

You do not like it? get together a group of survivors and do your own show-presentation-demostration-exhibition-fair.Yes, that would be such a classy thing to do. How about a TV show called "Survivor," only with real survivors of tragedies competing against each other for prizes? Or a version of "To Tell the Truth" where contestants have to guess which person is being honest about the ordeal they describe and which are lying. You could be the MC. That's the road you're on, William. Proud of yourself?

[uk_dave]

How does touring the UK help to increase compensation for injured first responders in the US?

Just askin'

[Pardalis]

M. Rodriguez, just a simple question. Besides the noise you heard in the basement, is there anything else in your testimony that points towards an inside job conspiracy?

Thanks.

[Totovader]

M. Rodriguez, just a simple question. Besides the noise you heard in the basement, is there anything else in your testimony that points towards an inside job conspiracy?

Thanks.

Just FYI- Mr. Rodriguez cannot be bothered to answer "questions". He's got more important things to do... I guess...


who gave you the power to request explanations from me?



I am 9/11.

[Totovader]

Terrified? hhahaha don't make me laugh. I choose who to answer, when to answer. Thank you Gravy and keep it coming, your attacks have been seen and people can choose what side to take. Their opinion. I also learned to enjoy and make the best of this and use your tirade proactively. Even sending them to my list of families in the group. They visited and comented on the threads. I am still fighting for them in a lot of issues and will not stop because you do not agree with it. My opinions , my experience and my approach.

You do not like it? get together a group of survivors and do your own show-presentation-demostration-exhibition-fair.


William Rodriguez Escape Artist

I'm just going to step over here and watch you deconstruct on your own. This whole kick you're on about "I am 9/11 I don't have to answer to you" is not befitting of the hero you play yourself out to be. You're the "keymaster", we get it- but you should recognize that your key doesn't make doors, it only opens them.

When it comes to your lies, inaccuracies, contradictions- and just flat out refusal to address the issues, your key does you nothing. I'm better than to play this card- but the victims really do deserve better than what you're giving them, and kudos to people who know better than to give you a pulpit.

I'd much rather hear you discuss the facts- talk about your understanding, etc- but you have put a tremendous amount of energy into avoiding that issue.

Mr. Rodriguez, you talk about being "censored"- but it is you, censoring yourself...

[Totovader]

you missed out when I tried and yes, you were one of those atacking me

I did just want to address this lie, however. You often portray yourself as some kind of middle man- ambassador between both sides.

You and I had a private conversation in which you explained as much- I thought you were better than this. When you decided to back out of the Hardfire show, the response that I and others gave you was not an attack, Mr. Rodriguez- it was a last-ditch attempt to get you to recognize your mistakes, and think a bit more critically.

I would like you to explain for me where I attacked you unjustly- if I have ever said anything unreasonable or unfair or untrue about you- please, quote me and provide a rebuttal. I will immediately apologize if that's the case.

I don't take kindly to unsubstantiated accusations.

[Calcas]

I did just want to address this lie, however. You often portray yourself as some kind of middle man- ambassador between both sides.

You and I had a private conversation in which you explained as much- I thought you were better than this. When you decided to back out of the Hardfire show, the response that I and others gave you was not an attack, Mr. Rodriguez- it was a last-ditch attempt to get you to recognize your mistakes, and think a bit more critically.

I would like you to explain for me where I attacked you unjustly- if I have ever said anything unreasonable or unfair or untrue about you- please, quote me and provide a rebuttal. I will immediately apologize if that's the case.

I don't take kindly to unsubstantiated accusations.

You're being too kind.

[Geedubya]

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I learned a lot here. Go and do your research yourself. I have a presentation to do in couple of minutes. later

William Rodriguez, Escape artist.

Originally Posted by William_Rodriguez
Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I learned a lot here. Go and do your research yourself. I have a show to do in couple of minutes. later

Almost, William. Unfortunately for you, Brainache was able to capture what a lot of people are thinking truly motivates you within that brief 3 min. window before you edited. I'm pretty confident this is the case, based mainly on the fact that you refuse to answer questions here on the specifics of the event.

By all accounts you exhibited bravery that day, but then again, a lot of people did, mainly the firefighters. Have you ever considered giving one of your shows, er...uh...presentations in front of them? Surely if anyone would be interested in getting to the bottom of who is really responsible for the death of 343 of their own, this group would be.

Are you brave enough to do that?

[Rahne Everson]

I am 9/11.

Oh good lord.

[Miss Anthrope]

Mr. Rodriguez,

On September 11th, the chaos of that horrible situation brought out the best in you. Your humanity, your bravery, and your desire to help.

The attentions of sycophantic conspiracy nuts brought out the very worst in you. You have chosen your ego, pride, and a path full of lies and embellishment in order to feel better than "ordinary people".

You were an ordinary person once. That ordinary person did what many good folks did on 9/11.

Now I'm afraid you're the Paris Hilton of the truth movement.

[bje]

I choose who to answer, when to answer.


Indeed, you must. We are all aware of your own contradictions.

And the silence is deafening

[Calcas]

Mr. Rodriguez,
On September 11th, the chaos of that horrible situation brought out the best in you. Your humanity, your bravery, and your desire to help.


Well said.

But I'm more than a little tired of us needing to "couch" every post toward him with the same "disclaimer."

It's been said dozens of times. We all agree with it.

Now it's time to call a spade a spade.

He is shameless.

[Miss Anthrope]

Well said.

But I'm more than a little tired of us needing to "couch" every post toward him with the same "disclaimer."

It's been said dozens of times. We all agree with it.

Now it's time to call a spade a spade.

He is shameless.

Hence the final conclusion, he is the Paris Hilton of the truth movement.

[Brainache]

Hence the final conclusion, he is the Paris Hilton of the truth movement.

I love this. Is it the first time Ms Hilton has been compared to a Puerto Rican ex-magician/janitor?

[Pardalis]

Hence the final conclusion, he is the Paris Hilton of the truth movement.

Without the legs.

[CHF]

Remember, Mr Rodriguez,

should you ever manage to go mainsteam all of our questions will be waiting for you.

So you can either explain yourself now, before a relatively small on-line audience, or you can explain your contradictions and story changes in front of millions of people on national TV.

I'd do it now if I were you.

[Crungy]

Originally Posted by Miss Anthrope
Hence the final conclusion, he is the Paris Hilton of the truth movement.

Without the legs.

And hopefully without the homemade sex videos.....

[chillzero]

Hey 9/11 how's the tour going?

From what he has said here, and what he has posted elsewhere, it is going very well, thanks to some anonymous complaints, that have inspired these stories of being banned from hotels. Nice bit of publicity for him, by his ownn account.
;)

colour me cynical.

[Mainstreammedia]

Sorry, nevermind...

[A W Smith]

Sorry, nevermind...

opps sorry never mind also

[sleahead]

I have tried to tell my story to everybody, but nobody wants to listen. It is very strange what is going on here in supposedly the most democratic country in the world. In my home country of Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can't even say a word.
The irony hurts.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/viewar...aspx?id=517168


Just for the record, Mr Rodriguez got at least half an hour on a national radio station, BBC Radio 5 Live. This hardly squares with his claim of being censored. He mainly talked about his experience on 9/11, after which he took some phone calls from the public. These calls were largely from woo merchants, with whom Mr Rodriguez agreed that a new investigation of 9/11 is required.

[Hal Bidlack]

Mr. Rodriguez,

I posted this notion before, but perhaps too subtly. I regret having to be more forward.

I too have been closely associated with Mr. Randi for a number of years now, and you may call him if you wish to check on his view of my character.

There were many in those buildings that day. You did a good thing, clearly. I too was in one of those buildings. My story unfolded in Virginia, as another aircraft arrived at the Pentagon.

For God's sake, Mr. Rodriguez, stop. Simply stated, a gentleman does NOT discuss these things, does not brag, does not attempt to draw attention to his own actions. In my own case, my small service is overwhelmed by my guilt and regret about not being able to do more. I have now, nearly 6 years later, only told my significant other most of what I saw and did that day, but not all, and I told her one time. I have told no others; not my children, not my coworkers, no one. I think you should feel ashamed to keep rehashing, re-bragging. We survivors should not be praised, in my view.

My judgment is that people who insist on talking about such things are both horribly forward and perhaps too quick to claim credit. While the overall story of 9/11 should be told, once your actions are on the record, you should not be retelling your braggadocio. Those that remained behind us in those buildings can not tell their stories, we should not engage in arrogant pretension about ours. Please hush up, please attempt to regain a bit of dignity.

[Totovader]

Mr. Rodriguez,

I posted this notion before, but perhaps too subtly. I regret having to be more forward.

I too have been closely associated with Mr. Randi for a number of years now, and you may call him if you wish to check on his view of my character.

There were many in those buildings that day. You did a good thing, clearly. I too was in one of those buildings. My story unfolded in Virginia, as another aircraft arrived at the Pentagon.

For God's sake, Mr. Rodriguez, stop. Simply stated, a gentleman does NOT discuss these things, does not brag, does not attempt to draw attention to his own actions. In my own case, my small service is overwhelmed by my guilt and regret about not being able to do more. I have now, nearly 6 years later, only told my significant other most of what I saw and did that day, but not all, and I told her one time. I have told no others; not my children, not my coworkers, no one. I think you should feel ashamed to keep rehashing, re-bragging. We survivors should not be praised, in my view.

My judgment is that people who insist on talking about such things are both horribly forward and perhaps too quick to claim credit. While the overall story of 9/11 should be told, once your actions are on the record, you should not be retelling your braggadocio. Those that remained behind us in those buildings can not tell their stories, we should not engage in arrogant pretension about ours. Please hush up, please attempt to regain a bit of dignity.

*Nominated

[LashL]

*Nominated

Seconded.

[Geedubya]

Seconded.

Thirded -- even if that's not a worded.

[Miss Anthrope]

Fourdeded...ded.

[Calcas]

5th.

I salute you sir.

And thats coming from a Vietnam Vet.

[DRBUZZ0]

I agree very much with Mr. Bidlack. I was born in New York City, and lived in the greater New York area. I saw the towers be attacked and fall on television, and I saw the aftermath within weeks afterward, only shortly after lower Manhattan became open at all to others. I did not go to gawk, but to see the places I had been so many times and which were so different for myself. My father had worked in tower two in the early 1990's and I have fond memories of the buildings.

Every time I see the towers on TV, I change the channel. I generally don't spend a real lot of time in that part of Manhattan. I can face the memories, but I choose not to, because they are very upsetting to me and make me angry, sad, empty and many other things.

Given that I was not there, and that I did not know (very well) anyone who lost their life in the incident, and that I was never in danger, I can only imagine what it must have been like for those who saw it not through a cathode ray tube but in person. My own trauma on that day most certainly pales in comparison. And I know many, if not most Americans look back with feelings of horror and pain.

It is further complicated by how the current political situation is embroiled with that day's events.

I would say to those who want to somehow further themselves by this event that while I support their right to freedom of speech, at least for me, you will not be gaining anything, as I would rather simply walk away from such things. I think many feel the same.

I would also say to the conspiracy theorists and the debunkers.. Please just leave this one alone. If there was a conspiracy then certainly it would be important to know, but the evidence of one is non-existent. Please if you must play "Amateur Sleuth" can you pick on Pearl Harbor or Roswell even the JFK assassination.... at least something a little less personal and fresh in all our minds. Unless you find something like a picture of special forces carrying TNT into the buildings, I think you'd better just lay off the websites and stuff.

And eyewitness testimony about the horrors of that day may be worth preserving for posterity. My advice would be to write it in a journal or record a narration and place it in a safety deposit box or a desk drawer, and leave it there. Posterity will be able to listen when they want to.

[thewholesoul]

hey totovader, thewholesoul here

so maybe we could start off where we finished? morellini's testimony gives an account of two events (1) when he was walking he was thrown to the ground from the impact of the first event which he believed was in the loading dock. (2) when he was later running he experienced the second event which he assumed could have been the freight car when it collapsed.

now your initial explanation was that (1) was the plane impact + (2) was the evelvator.

you retracted this position when i pointed out the peculiarity of a plane impact 90+ floors above him causing him to be thrown to the ground. further more we know that people closer to the impact did not fall to the ground from the plane impact e.g. rodriguez and anthony which further decreased the plausibility of event (1) being the impact of a plane.

your next explanation was that (1) was the elevator and (2) was the "sound of the plane" impact.

but this explanation is clearly inconsistent with morellinis testimony since he seems to suggest that the second event (2), not the first, was the elevator crashing to the ground floor. besides would an elevator crashing to the basement floor cause a person to be thrown to the ground? perhaps? i would be sceptical.

but if event (1) was the elevator and event (2) was the "sound" of the plane impact travelling down the building. would the "sound" of the plane impact follow the elevator impact? the speed of sound is 340m/s, the plane impacted on the 93th floor which is roughly 355m above ground. so it would not take ANY longer than two seconds to reach the basement. the elevator fell because a fireball of jet fuel jetting down the elevator. so the fireball and the "sound of the plane impact" started the same time. but if the elevator fell at the speed of sound it and its occupants would surely have been crushed on impact. because the operator of the elevator survived we must reject this explanation. so the second event (2) could not have been the "sound" of the plane imapct.

so as a defender of the official story what is your explanation in relation to the testimony of morellini?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Mr. Rodriguez,

I posted this notion before, but perhaps too subtly. I regret having to be more forward.

I too have been closely associated with Mr. Randi for a number of years now, and you may call him if you wish to check on his view of my character.

There were many in those buildings that day. You did a good thing, clearly. I too was in one of those buildings. My story unfolded in Virginia, as another aircraft arrived at the Pentagon.

For God's sake, Mr. Rodriguez, stop. Simply stated, a gentleman does NOT discuss these things, does not brag, does not attempt to draw attention to his own actions. In my own case, my small service is overwhelmed by my guilt and regret about not being able to do more. I have now, nearly 6 years later, only told my significant other most of what I saw and did that day, but not all, and I told her one time. I have told no others; not my children, not my coworkers, no one. I think you should feel ashamed to keep rehashing, re-bragging. We survivors should not be praised, in my view.

My judgment is that people who insist on talking about such things are both horribly forward and perhaps too quick to claim credit. While the overall story of 9/11 should be told, once your actions are on the record, you should not be retelling your braggadocio. Those that remained behind us in those buildings can not tell their stories, we should not engage in arrogant pretension about ours. Please hush up, please attempt to regain a bit of dignity.

Colonel Bidlack rarely speaks in this den of iniquity, but when he does, mountains tremble.

[Totovader]

hey totovader, thewholesoul here

so maybe we could start off where we finished? morellini's testimony gives an account of two events (1) when he was walking he was thrown to the ground from the impact of the first event which he believed was in the loading dock. (2) when he was later running he experienced the second event which he assumed could have been the freight car when it collapsed.

now your initial explanation was that (1) was the plane impact + (2) was the evelvator.

you retracted this position when i pointed out the peculiarity of a plane impact 90+ floors above him causing him to be thrown to the ground. further more we know that people closer to the impact did not fall to the ground from the plane impact e.g. rodriguez and anthony which further decreased the plausibility of event (1) being the impact of a plane.

your next explanation was that (1) was the elevator and (2) was the "sound of the plane" impact.

but this explanation is clearly inconsistent with morellinis testimony since he seems to suggest that the second event (2), not the first, was the elevator crashing to the ground floor. besides would an elevator crashing to the basement floor cause a person to be thrown to the ground? perhaps? i would be sceptical.

but if event (1) was the elevator and event (2) was the "sound" of the plane impact travelling down the building. would the "sound" of the plane impact follow the elevator impact? the speed of sound is 340m/s, the plane impacted on the 93th floor which is roughly 355m above ground. so it would not take ANY longer than two seconds to reach the basement. the elevator fell because a fireball of jet fuel jetting down the elevator. so the fireball and the "sound of the plane impact" started the same time. but if the elevator fell at the speed of sound it and its occupants would surely have been crushed on impact. because the operator of the elevator survived we must reject this explanation. so the second event (2) could not have been the "sound" of the plane imapct.

so as a defender of the official story what is your explanation in relation to the testimony of morellini?

The thread you're looking for is here. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=100870)

This (old) thread is about William Rodriguez's tour.