Should Local Govt's Buy American?

[Tmy]

Ever notice that all Police Motorcycles are Harleys? All the cop cars are Fords or Chevys. I understand the concept that govt should spend its money on american made goods, but is that wise?. Dont we want out govt to spend wise, mor bang for the buck. More bang forthe buck even if means buying foriegn products.

Take police motorcycles. They are all Harleys. Now I sure they get some good deal but still, comparable japanese motorcyles sell for literally 1/2 the price as Harleys. (and have a rep of being more reliable). As much as I like Harleys I'd rather the police save a couple of my tax dollars.

[Crossbow]

Well, I cannot speak for everywhere of course, but in my area Harley Davidson leases the motorcycles to the police department at a very good price and every two years they get new bikes.

This is a much cheaper option than buying motorcycles (even imports).

[Dancing David]

Well, capitalism is always touted until it hurts bussinesses pocket book, then it is unamerican.

[Ipecac]

I wish *someone* would buy American and take away his keyboard. What an idiot.


Oh, you mean buy American goods . . .

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Tmy

Take police motorcycles. They are all Harleys. Now I sure they get some good deal but still, comparable japanese motorcyles sell for literally 1/2 the price as Harleys. (and have a rep of being more reliable). As much as I like Harleys I'd rather the police save a couple of my tax dollars.


LAPD currently uses Kawasaki motorcycles, I heard they were thinking about switching to BMW, not sure if they will though.

[Grammatron]

I was doing some more research and it turns out that CHP(California Highway Patrol) uses BMW bikes.

http://www.motorcyclenewswire.com/news.cfm?newsid=1848

[Tmy]

Well Cali sure is an example of fiscal responsibility!!!

Of cousre all the movies are now being shot in canada so we know Hollywood chases the lowest cost.

(Although it did bother me to find out the "Miracle on ICE" Olympic Hockey movie was being filmed in Vancouver. For shame.)

[Brown]

One of my (former) local government agencies bought American cars for two reasons. One reason was that there was a lot of political fallout when the agency one year bought a bunch of Toyotas. The Toyotas were supposed to be more durable and get better gas milage, but many people were upset anyway.

The other reason was that it was easier to repair the domestic vehicles. It was much harder to get parts for the Toyotas than for the Fords. When you own a fleet of vehicles, repair costs and down time due to repairs can be major considerations.

One of the mechanics said, "It's easy to get parts for a Ford. You just pick 'em up along the side of the road."

[chulbert]

Originally posted by Tmy
Ever notice that all Police Motorcycles are Harleys? All the cop cars are Fords or Chevys. I understand the concept that govt should spend its money on american made goods, but is that wise?. Dont we want out govt to spend wise, mor bang for the buck. More bang forthe buck even if means buying foriegn products.

Take police motorcycles. They are all Harleys. Now I sure they get some good deal but still, comparable japanese motorcyles sell for literally 1/2 the price as Harleys. (and have a rep of being more reliable). As much as I like Harleys I'd rather the police save a couple of my tax dollars.

I agree that governments should choose the most cost-effetive solutions that meet their needs. However, you must consider the impact a decision will have on all the responsibilities and needs of the government. For example, the economic stimulus of the American economy through the purchase of American goods is, one presumes, worth something.

If the government goes with cheaper Kawasaki motorcycles, Harley Davidson goes out of business and the ex-workers collect unemployment, has it made a wise economic choice?

(Don't nag me about a contrived and hyperbolic example.)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Ipecac
I wish *someone* would buy American and take away his keyboard. What an idiot.


Oh, you mean buy American goods . . .

The "Ransom of Red Chief" comes immediately to mind when I think of that option

[Tmy]

Originally posted by chulbert




If the government goes with cheaper Kawasaki motorcycles, Harley Davidson goes out of business and the ex-workers collect unemployment, has it made a wise economic choice?

(Don't nag me about a contrived and hyperbolic example.)

I can see that rational from Milwaukie. But what good does it do Yuma Arizona to pay extra and buy Harleys in order to keep the Wisconsin plant open?

[HarryKeogh]

i feel governments (foreign too) should buy as much as possible from their own people.

but im just pissy and biased because i've seen so many businesses in my industry close recently because they can't compete with incredibly cheap, slave (or pretty close to it) labor overseas.

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Grammatron
I was doing some more research and it turns out that CHP(California Highway Patrol) uses BMW bikes.

http://www.motorcyclenewswire.com/news.cfm?newsid=1848

Those lucky bastards ...
:D

Zee

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tmy
Ever notice that all Police Motorcycles are Harleys?

As has already been pointed out, that's just not the case.

Further insight from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/motorcycle_traffic03/planning.htm):

Equipping a Motorcycle Patrol Unit

The first equipment decision is to select the primary type of motorcycle that the unit will use. It may be desirable to purchase a motorcycle that is specifically designed for law enforcement use. There are motorcycle manufacturers that produce models for law enforcement service. Purchasing decisions regarding the makes and models of motorcycles will vary with each agency, depending on such considerations as budget, dealer availability, and proximity to maintenance services. Agency planners should conduct extensive research based on these criteria before selecting a make and model of motorcycle. Certain manufacturers offer lease programs, which some agencies find cost effective. While specific law enforcement models of motorcycles may be desirable, some agencies have chosen to use civilian models, effectively putting them into service as a law enforcement motorcycle.


Originally posted by Tmy
All the cop cars are Fords or Chevys. I understand the concept that govt should spend its money on american made goods, but is that wise?

Aside from the political ramifications expressed by Brown, there are other more important considerations here as well.

Police cruisers are specialty vehicles; they're much more than ordinary sedans with a light rack mounted on top, and are selected based upon the needs of a given police agency. Law enforcement agencies have minimum specifications for patrol vehicles they procure. Pursuit vehicles in particular have extra performance needs (i.e. acceleration, braking, handling under pursuit conditions).

Agencies like the Michigan State Police conduct annual evaluations of vehicles' performance and share their findings with the law enforcement community as part of a program developed by the National Insitute of Justice. ( MSP 2003 model year report (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/vehiclebk_51600_7.pdf) in .PDF format)

Do foreign manufacturers produce vehicles that meet various US law enforcement agencies' minimum standards for patrol vehicles?

Even if we were to assume they do*, is there evidence available that demonstrates foreign vehicles would be more cost-effective for police usage -- not only in base vehicle price, but also maintenance?

( * The reason I state this is that I'm hard-pressed to think of a foreign, full-size, non-luxury production sedan that could yield enough horsepower to compete with vehicles like the Ford Crown Victoria and such which we commonly see on patrol.)

There is much more to consider at hand than "buying American." Simply because there are foreign-made civilian passenger vehicles available which cost less on average than some American models does not mean that the same would hold true in police applications.

Edited for spelling. (oops)

[shanek]

Originally posted by chulbert
For example, the economic stimulus of the American economy through the purchase of American goods is, one presumes, worth something.

This is another thing people just don't understand about economics. They see the "trade deficit" as being the spiriting away of American money to foreign countries, and it just ain't so.

Let's say you buy a car from Toyota and you pay for it in dollars. What's Toyota going to do with that money? They're either going to spend or invest it in America, or they're going to convert it to some other currency.

Let's say they convert it to Yen. That means that there has to be someone out there willing to trade a comparable amount of Yen for the dollars. So, what are they going to do with the money? That's right—spend or invest it in America!

The trade deficit occurs when more products are being imported than exported, but this is exactly offset by new investments into the American economy.

So it's not true that foreign sales take money out of the American economy. Regardless of who owns the company, it has precisely the same effect.