So now that Moore has been suspended, is he ever likely to return to the bench?

[reprise]

Alabama chief justice suspended (http://www.msnbc.com/news/954934.asp?0cv=CA01&cp1=1#BODY).

[Pyrrho]

Of course he'll return to the bench. Soon, the monument will be moved to another part of the building, all sides will declare victory and/or martyrdom, and almighty God will be safe and secure once again.

[reprise]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Of course he'll return to the bench. Soon, the monument will be moved to another part of the building, all sides will declare victory and/or martyrdom, and almighty God will be safe and secure once again.

So his non-compliance with the SCOTUS order won't be seen as a relevant factor in his fitness to continue holding office?

Weird.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by reprise


So his non-compliance with the SCOTUS order won't be seen as a relevant factor in his fitness to continue holding office?

Weird.

The Supreme Court did not issue an order in the case. It simply declined to issue a stay of execution of Judge Thompson's order.

To date, the Supreme Court has not agreed to hear or review any part of this case. I suspect it will not hear or review this case at all.

Procedurally, this case was tried in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Alabama, which is the applicable federal trial court. After having a trial, Moore lost when Judge Thompson ruled against him, finding Moore's placement of the monument in a public area of the judicial building constituted state action respecting religion, in violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments.

Moore appealed Thompson's decision to the applicable appellate court, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, commonly called "The 11th Circuit." The appellate court simply reviews the record from the trial court and the briefs submitted in the case by the parties and by interested third parties who are called "friends of the court" (so-called "amicus briefs"), and hears oral argument from the parties in cases in which the court allows oral arguments. The case is not tried before the appellate court; it is argued there, which means no new evidence may be submitted, and no new issues which were not raised before the trial court may be brought before the appellate court. Moore lost his appeal in the 11th Circuit, which means the 11th Circuit agreed with and affirmed Judge Thompson's decision.

This left in place Judge Thompson's order to remove the monument. Judge Thompson, however, issued a stay of his order to allow Moore to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Later, Thompson lifted his stay and amended his order to give Moore 15 days to remove the monument from the public area of the building.

Procedurally, that is what has occurred in the case. I hope that this clears up at least some misunderstandings about what has and what hasn't happened here. It can be somewhat technical.

Back to your actual question: Moore did openly and publicly defy a federal trial judge's order. Moore's defense is that he believes the federal judge had no jurisdiction or authority over him in this matter. It is a very weak legal argument, one that is absolutely certain to lose. Indeed, it already has lost in the case itself.

Moore created quite a conundrum for himself by adopting his foolish legal stance. He set himself up to defy the federal court and to create a dilemma for those who would support him. How does one uphold the rule of law when one openly defies another court's orders? The Judicial Ethics Commission is right to suspend him for creating his own ethical mess.

His continued open defiance is likely to hurt him in an upcoming trial before the Court of the Judiciary. I would think that only conciliation and demonstrated sincere remorse would save his office at this stage. I do not believe Moore is capable of being conciliatory in this matter; he is an obstinate fool and extremist. He has cut his own throat.

Bye Chief Justice. I expect that soon we will be seeing the fulltime career of Roy Moore, Traveling Guest Speaker for the Religious Right. Starting fee: $10,000 per appearance. Books are sure to follow.

AS

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Of course he'll return to the bench. Soon, the monument will be moved to another part of the building, all sides will declare victory and/or martyrdom, and almighty God will be safe and secure once again.

Don't count on it. The Religious Right doesn't have as much support as you seem to think. Moore's political goose is cooked.

AS

[reprise]

Technically, wouldn't the order have been complied with even the statuary is removed by thieves? In a way, Moore can't afford to defy the order - because sooner or later SOMEONE is going to remove the damned things and at that point the issue there is no longer any breach of Thompson's order for their removal.

[Some Friggin Guy]

I'm not a lawyer, so my thinking on this may be flawed, however, here goes:

There were two potential contempt charges involved, it would seem: Moore for refusing to remove the rock and the State of Alabama for not removing the rock, thereby endorsing Moore as a representative. When the rest of the judges over-ruled Moore, the potential of the state being held in contempt should have been dropped. (Again, I am not a lawyer, and for that matter, I am seriously lacking sleep, so I could be WAY off.)

Moore can still be held in contempt, theoretically, because even though he wss over-ruled, he still is trying to ignore the ruling himself.

Being as he now has been hit with yet ANTOHER sharge of judicial misconduct, the odds of his judicial career surviving are fairly slim...

Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said of his POLITICAL career.

[Cinorjer]

The fact that anyone so obviously unqualified and who goes around calling himself "The Ten Commandments Judge" won a state-wide election in the first place makes me hesitant to predict what will happen now. It might be that the news folks are only letting us hear the voice of the very vocal minority of right-wind religious extremists and the usual televangelist publicity feeding frenzy. I notice none of the other elected officials of that fine state had a single comment to put on the public record. Sounds like they're too intimidated by the fundamentalist Christian political block.

I wonder how many Alabamians (Alabamans?) understand that most of America is laughing at them?

Jerry

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
Bye Chief Justice. I expect that soon we will be seeing the fulltime career of Roy Moore, Traveling Guest Speaker for the Religious Right. Starting fee: $10,000 per appearance. Books are sure to follow.A dead-on likely scenario.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by reprise
Technically, wouldn't the order have been complied with even the statuary is removed by thieves? In a way, Moore can't afford to defy the order - because sooner or later SOMEONE is going to remove the damned things and at that point the issue there is no longer any breach of Thompson's order for their removal.

Yes. The state is in fact going to move the monument from the public area of the building. Where it will go is still up in the air. The idiotic grandstanding going on by some of the extremist supporters of Moore and his foolish cause is pointless. (Yesterday afternoon one idiot kept proclaming that after all the decisions and orders of various judges and executives, the monument is still there. So what? The darn thing weighs 2 1/2 tons. It will take a week or two to figure out where to put it, if it stays in the building at all, and how to move it, and whom to call to do the moving. They are not victorious in this silly legal battle, those idiots.)

AS

[SteveW]

It's too bad one of the commandments wasn't Thou shalt not be a moron.

Well then, of course, there wouldn't be any Xians if they followed that one.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
I'm not a lawyer, so my thinking on this may be flawed, however, here goes:

There were two potential contempt charges involved, it would seem: Moore for refusing to remove the rock and the State of Alabama for not removing the rock, thereby endorsing Moore as a representative. When the rest of the judges over-ruled Moore, the potential of the state being held in contempt should have been dropped. (Again, I am not a lawyer, and for that matter, I am seriously lacking sleep, so I could be WAY off.)

Moore can still be held in contempt, theoretically, because even though he wss over-ruled, he still is trying to ignore the ruling himself.

Being as he now has been hit with yet ANTOHER sharge of judicial misconduct, the odds of his judicial career surviving are fairly slim...

Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said of his POLITICAL career.

I am quite sure Judge Thompson is satisfied with the decision of the eight associate justices of the Alabama Supreme Court, who each have equal voice on the court in cases before it, equal to Moore's voice as well (a point lost on virtually everyone, but then this has never been a case before the Alabama Supreme Court; it was always a federal case). The State Attorney General also communicated that he intended to have the state comply fully with the order. Therefore, the State of Alabama will not be subject to fines.

Judge Thompson has not indicated any intention to hold Moore personally in contempt, although I wish he would.

The complaint which is pending against Moore is one brought by some lawyers before the State Judicial Inquiry Commission. It involves Moore's ethics as a judge. The commission found merit to the complaint and referred it to the State Court of the Judiciary for trial. That is the governmental body which hears complaints against judges and has the authority to sanction them. Sanctions could include removal from office in the most serious cases.

I'm not as sure as you are that he will be removed, although that possibility definitely exists.

I think you have it backwards. Moore's political career is positively over. You and many others are mistaken about your assessment of the degree of political support Moore has in this state. He is widely regarded as an extremist of the Religious Right and does not enjoy the support of the political mainstream. He will not be re-elected. Indeed, he will likely never be elected to any statewide office again.

He does have a promising career on the speaking circuit awaiting him. He has already been a very successful speaker for several years due to his notoriety as "The Ten Commandments Judge" since 1997.

AS

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
The fact that anyone so obviously unqualified and who goes around calling himself "The Ten Commandments Judge" won a state-wide election in the first place makes me hesitant to predict what will happen now. It might be that the news folks are only letting us hear the voice of the very vocal minority of right-wind religious extremists and the usual televangelist publicity feeding frenzy. I notice none of the other elected officials of that fine state had a single comment to put on the public record. Sounds like they're too intimidated by the fundamentalist Christian political block.

I wonder how many Alabamians (Alabamans?) understand that most of America is laughing at them?

Jerry

Moore won a statewide election for several reasons. He ran as a Republican at a time when Republicans won most state and federal elected offices in the 2000 election. Much of this was due to the backlash against the recklessness and lawlessness attributed to the Clintonites, and in support of the perceived lawfulness and orderliness of their Republican counterparts. Moore already had great name recognition inside and outside the state due to his previous court battles over the smaller wooden Ten Commandments plaque in his courtroom when he was a circuit court judge in Etowah County. Finally, his opponent was a lesser known woman without a touchtone cause to champion.

It is notable that Moore won with little more than 50% of the vote. It is not as if everyone in the state is standing behind him, or ever did.

The vast majority of Alabamians do not support Moore's stupid monuments battle. The vast majority of Alabamians are deeply embarrassed at the notoriety Moore is bringing the state in this circus.

Assuming the rest of the state supports him and deserves to be regarded as a bad joke is very uncritical. Of course, that is exactly how the mass media want those outside the South to think, as it plays right into the readers' and viewers' prejudices about Alabama and the South, and thus "plays" well.

Believe it or not, most Alabamians actually have running water and electricity. Some of us can read even.

So, in response to your question, I suppose it might be better to ask how many persons outside the state actually understand that Alabama is just as diverse in opinions and tastes as just about any other state in this nation. There are 4.5 million people in the state, but only a few hundred have demonstrated outside the state judicial building in support of Moore. It is just as foolish to "laugh at" the whole state because of Moore as it is to ridicule all Californians for having Gary Coleman on the ballot for governor.

AS

[arcticpenguin]

Moore will not return to the bench, he will ascend directly to heaven. :rolleyes:

[corplinx]

He posted the 10 Commandments prominently, singularly (it wasnt part of an exhibit of historical items), and to boot refused to take it down. The only issue I see which could save him would be the state vs. federal issue. However, he should have complied and then pressed the issue.

I thought we conservatives were the ones opposed to activist judges?

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist


Don't count on it. The Religious Right doesn't have as much support as you seem to think. Moore's political goose is cooked.



Consider, none of the 8 members of the Alabama Supreme Court over which Moore presides as Chief Justice supported him. That includes 7 republican members.

[Attrayant]

He's probably headed for the Governor's Mansion.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by reprise


So his non-compliance with the SCOTUS order won't be seen as a relevant factor in his fitness to continue holding office?

You've never been to Alabama, have you?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy
There were two potential contempt charges involved, it would seem: Moore for refusing to remove the rock and the State of Alabama for not removing the rock, thereby endorsing Moore as a representative. When the rest of the judges over-ruled Moore, the potential of the state being held in contempt should have been dropped. (Again, I am not a lawyer, and for that matter, I am seriously lacking sleep, so I could be WAY off.)


I don't think the State will be charged. It is clear that the other justices and the Attorney General are on board to remove it. My thought is that they don't want to give the loonies that are there protesting any reason to cause a scene. I suspect, one morning, sometime in the next couple of weeks, we will all wake up, and the monument will be gone.

[arcticpenguin]

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/706F826E84409D8248256C95000B1988

Play It All Night Long

written by Warren Zevon 1980 Zevon Music BMI

Grandpa pissed his pants again
He don't give a damn
Brother Billy has both guns drawn
He ain't been right since Vietnam

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

Daddy's doing Sister Sally
Grandma's dying of cancer now
The cattle all have brucellosis
We'll get through somehow

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

I'm going down to the Dew Drop Inn
See if I can drink enough
There ain't much to country living
Sweat, piss, jizz and blood

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

[AmateurScientist]

Arctic Penguin,

I think we're going to have to revoke your membership in NASA for that (although I very much like Warren Zevon).

At least we'll put you on probation. For penance, you could eat a dozen 911 wings.

AS

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
Arctic Penguin,

I think we're going to have to revoke your membership in NASA for that (although I very much like Warren Zevon).

At least we'll put you on probation. For penance, you could eat a dozen 911 wings.

AS
:D :D :D

[Brown]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
The vast majority of Alabamians do not support Moore's stupid monuments battle. The vast majority of Alabamians are deeply embarrassed at the notoriety Moore is bringing the state in this circus. I suspected this to be the case. It is unfortunate that so many of the news reports chose to quote people who seemed to be somewhat deficient in the brain department. Their comments were the most extreme, and surely were deemed to be of the greatest interest to readers. It seemed to me that the view of the average, well-informed citizen wasn't presented or given much coverage.

The same is true of the "Christian" groups that offered comments. Not all Christians are as foolish as the folks who got press coverage. In fact, some Christians are adamant that the Ten Commandments (in whatever version) have no place in a government building, because they don't want the government telling them anything about who to worship, how to worship, when to worship, how to stay in the favor of the Almighty, and so forth. Some Christians have the strength of character to oppose a governmental endorsement of a religious principle, even if they agree with the religious principle that the government endorses!

[nightwind]

Moore should gracefully step down if he had any character at all. Unfortuantely, this guy appears to have some major psychological issues. It looks to me that it could certainly impair his judgment in some situations.

[Bunk]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist

It is just as foolish to "laugh at" the whole state because of Moore as it is to ridicule all Californians for having Gary Coleman on the ballot for governor.

AS
:roll: I hear the first thing he's going to do after he's elected is lower the minimum height requirement for rides at Disneyland.:roll:

[KillerBob]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist
The vast majority of Alabamians do not support Moore's stupid monuments battle. The vast majority of Alabamians are deeply embarrassed at the notoriety Moore is bringing the state in this circus.


Yeah, I've noticed that most of the people they interview on TV are from Houston or the guy who walked all the way from San Diego or another guy from Missouri and so on.

It seems that Alabama is having to import enough wackos to make it seem like a crowd.

[Brown]

The vast majority of Alabamians do not support Moore's stupid monuments battle. The vast majority of Alabamians are deeply embarrassed at the notoriety Moore is bringing the state in this circus.
I suspected this to be the case. It is unfortunate that so many of the news reports chose to quote people who seemed to be somewhat deficient in the brain department. Their comments were the most extreme, and surely were deemed to be of the greatest interest to readers. It seemed to me that the view of the average, well-informed citizen wasn't presented or given much coverage.

The same is true of the "Christian" groups that offered comments. Not all Christians are as foolish as the folks who got press coverage. In fact, some Christians are adamant that the Ten Commandments (in whatever version) have no place in a government building, because they don't want the government telling them anything about who to worship, how to worship, when to worship, how to stay in the favor of the Almighty, and so forth. Some Christians have the strength of character to oppose a governmental endorsement of a religious principle, even if they agree with the religious principle that the government endorses!Well, whatever shame the Alabamians may have felt, they seem to have gotten over it.

[ANTPogo]

Well, whatever shame the Alabamians may have felt, they seem to have gotten over it.

Don't worry, I'm feeling more than enough shame about this to make up for it.

[WildCat]

It's like a time machine...

[ANTPogo]

It's like a time machine...

At least we're getting better. Usually Alabamians want to set things back to the way they were a hundred years ago. Going back just ten years is quite the improvement.

[Lowpro]

I just think it's further proof that there is no God.

[a_unique_person]

Can someone fill me in on what just happened?

[ANTPogo]

Can someone fill me in on what just happened?

Once upon a time, Roy Moore was elected as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, and had a giant granite monument of the Ten Commandments installed in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building. This was a wee bit unconstitutional, and after a Federal lawsuit was filed, Judge Moore was ordered to remove the monument.

He didn't. In fact, he announced his intention to disobey the order. So, it was removed for him (after he, Jerry Falwell, and Alan Keyes held protests against it at the Alabama Supreme Court Building). Shortly after that, the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission filed an ethics complaint against him, and the Alabama Court of the Judiciary unanimously ruled that he be removed from his position as Chief Justice.

That was in 2003. In 2012, after an unsuccessful run for governor of the state, Roy Moore decided to run for the job he got booted out of less than a decade before, Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, defeating two opponents in the primary to become the official Republican Party nominee for the office.

This November, voters in Alabama will get to choose as the next Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court between a guy who was kicked out for defying a Federal court order to remove his unconstitutional monument, and...well, this guy. (http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2012/03/then_democrats_last_hope_in_al.html)

We're **********.

[a_unique_person]

Can't argue with that.

[WildCat]

This November, voters in Alabama will get to choose as the next Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court between a guy who was kicked out for defying a Federal court order to remove his unconstitutional monument, and...well, this guy. (http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2012/03/then_democrats_last_hope_in_al.html)

We're **********.
Any chance of a reputable independent running?

[Resume]

Once upon a time, Roy Moore was elected as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, and had a giant granite monument of the Ten Commandments installed in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building. This was a wee bit unconstitutional, and after a Federal lawsuit was filed, Judge Moore was ordered to remove the monument.

He didn't. In fact, he announced his intention to disobey the order. So, it was removed for him (after he, Jerry Falwell, and Alan Keyes held protests against it at the Alabama Supreme Court Building). Shortly after that, the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission filed an ethics complaint against him, and the Alabama Court of the Judiciary unanimously ruled that he be removed from his position as Chief Justice.

That was in 2003. In 2012, after an unsuccessful run for governor of the state, Roy Moore decided to run for the job he got booted out of less than a decade before, Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, defeating two opponents in the primary to become the official Republican Party nominee for the office.

This November, voters in Alabama will get to choose as the next Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court between a guy who was kicked out for defying a Federal court order to remove his unconstitutional monument, and...well, this guy. (http://blog.al.com/archiblog/2012/03/then_democrats_last_hope_in_al.html)

We're **********.

I like your Harry Lyon. I like him a whole bunch. I think the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court is destined to be a man named Harry Lyon.