(Ed) Secrecy and Flight 93: Split From: Pentagon Videos

[Revolutionary91]

I would like to see the wreckage of Flight 93. It is under armed guard 24/7 in Iron Mountain. Strangely, they are guarding the impact site with armed guards too.

[Anti-sophist]

I would like to see the wreckage of Flight 93.

So?


Strangely, they are guarding the impact site with armed guards too.

Liar.

[T.A.M.]

I would like to see the wreckage of Flight 93. It is under armed guard 24/7 in Iron Mountain. Strangely, they are guarding the impact site with armed guards too.

Please provide evidence, or I will simply add "The End" to your fictional tale.

TAM:)

[Revolutionary91]

Jeff from Pumpitout phoned several witnesses in the area of the crash recently. One of them confirmed the guard around the site. Why is the wreckage so secret?

[Revolutionary91]

News report about Iron Mountain youtube.com/watch?v=HBkJrqV2qkQ

[T.A.M.]

Jeff...yes he is hillarious. I have heard many of his "shotgun" interviews, where he leads the person on the other end, often to the point of making them angry, with his assanine questions.

I trust nothing that comes from him. You'll have to better than "Jeff interviewed someone and they confirmed it".

TAM:)

[Anti-sophist]

Jeff from Pumpitout phoned several witnesses in the area of the crash recently. One of them confirmed the guard around the site. Why is the wreckage so secret?

http://www.photosled.com/data/1219/coxforkum5.gif

That's one reason.

[T.A.M.]

So there is an "armed guard" at the site for flight 93, yet not a single person has gone up to ask him why he is there? Not a single local reporter has published an article to this effect?

Ya right?

TAM:)

[Revolutionary91]

Jeff...yes he is hillarious. I have heard many of his "shotgun" interviews, where he leads the person on the other end, often to the point of making them angry, with his assanine questions.

I trust nothing that comes from him. You'll have to better than "Jeff interviewed someone and they confirmed it".

TAM:)


So the witness is lying?

[Anti-sophist]

So the witness is lying?

Classic truther fallacy. Take your sad trolling fallacy elsewhere.

If you want to have an actual discussion, let's have it. Leave your pathetic attempt at fallacy elsewhere.


Furthermore, this is a thread about Flight 77 and you've tried to hijack it to talk about Flight 93. Try starting your own thread so we can discuss your claims and your evidence about flight 93.

[T.A.M.]

So the witness is lying?

No...I would say misunderstanding, or otherwise. Or perhaps there was an armed PERSON up there.

What you have not proven is that the person alleged to have been there, and alleged to be armed, was an armed guard working for the USG.

What you have not proven is that this witness actually said...

"There was an armed guard there", rather than "there was someone up there with a gun, who looked like a guard".

What you have not proven is what date the witness saw the alleged armed guard there, and if there could have been a more obvious, less conspiratorial reason for said person, guard or otherwise to be there...

So why dont you go work on that...

TAM:)

[Revolutionary91]

Jun. 12--HARRISBURG -- Gov. Rendell today announced the state would provide a grant to cover the cost of security at the Flight 93 crash site in Somerset County.
Rendell, speaking at a news conference in the Capitol, said the $120,000 grant would pay for security to patrol the future site of the national park for two years.


The Philadelphia Inquirer | Date: 6/12/2007

[Anti-sophist]

Stop letting him hijack the thread. Let him take this drivel to its own thread.

[MarcoPolo]

Furthermore, this is a thread about Flight 77 and you've tried to hijack it to talk about Flight 93.

<sniff> <sniff>

Anti-sophist... <sniff>...

Thank you, this means so much to me. <wiping tears from my eyes> I've only got a mere, what, 6 posts now, yet you still defend my thread from threadjackers.

You're my hero...
David

(Comic relief is allowed, right?... :D )

[Revolutionary91]

Please provide evidence, or I will simply add "The End" to your fictional tale.

TAM:)

You have not retracted your claim that my tale was fictional. I have already proved that the Iron Mountain thing is true.

[Gravy]

I would like to see the wreckage of Flight 93. It is under armed guard 24/7 in Iron Mountain. Strangely, they are guarding the impact site with armed guards too.You should really let United Airlines know that. They'll be very surprised to learn that they don't have the wreckage of flight 93.

When can we expect you to contact them?

[Revolutionary91]

You should really let United Airlines know that. They'll be very surprised to learn that they don't have the wreckage of flight 93.

When can we expect you to contact them?

Today.

Is the news report wrong then?

[apathoid]

The Philadelphia Inquirer | Date: 6/12/2007

And?

What do you think they are trying to hide, some 6 years later?
Perhaps the site has been deemed hallowed ground, since it's the final resting place for all of the victims. Do you also find it odd that there is security at cemeteries?

[pomeroo]

[quote=Gravy;2756468]You should really let United Airlines know that. They'll be very surprised to learn that they don't have the wreckage of flight 93.




Aren't you being unfair, Mark? I thought only 95% of the wreckage had been recovered.



When can we expect you to contact them?


Wait! I know! He has no intention of contacting anybody.

[Revolutionary91]

Pity they cannot show us this 95% of the wreckage.

[T.A.M.]

If it is true, which to me you have not proven, then a guard patrol is probably there to prevent insane truthers like JEFF and KILLTOWN from defacing the site with "9/11 truth" grafiti.

TAM:)

[apathoid]

Today.

Is the news report wrong then?

Going off previous experience....

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/9902463d01961497a.jpg

....I'd say that is a very strong possibility.

[T.A.M.]

Pity they cannot show us this 95% of the wreckage.

Pity you are not ENTITLED to see it...

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Pity I do not have access to the Pope's private journal.

Pity I do not have access to area 51

Pity I cannot stroll into the oval office at will.

Pity...really.

TAM;)

[Gravy]

The Philadelphia Inquirer | Date: 6/12/2007

Of course there's security there. You wouldn't want the site desecrated by vicious moron 9/11 deniers, would you?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/879046941a8041ecb.jpg

[Revolutionary91]

Then, Apathoid, the news report that stated 95% of the wreckage was recovered could also be wrong.

[Anti-sophist]

If it is true, which to me you have not proven, then a guard patrol is probably there to prevent insane truthers like JEFF and KILLTOWN from deacing the site with "9/11 truth" grafiti.

TAM:)

I thought it was -really- odd that he didn't post a link to the original article when asking _WHY_ there were armed guards. Because that's -exactly- what the article is about.

Here's the original: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/politics/pa/20070613_Pa__will_pay_for_patrols_at_crash_site.ht ml

Here's some choice quotes from the article:


The flap erupted when a landowner earlier this month decided to seek cash donations for security costs by putting a [donation] box at the temporary memorial overlooking the crash site in Shanksville, Somerset County.


The move outraged the families of the 40 passengers and crew who died and others who said they wanted to preserve the sanctity of the mountaintop burial ground.


Rendell agreed, saying yesterday the grant "eliminates the need for donation boxes, which transformed this hallowed ground into something less dignified."

Kind of funny when truthers own sources answer their question. But you see, asking questions that imply sinister motives is more important than the truth to these people. It's intellectually dishonest, obviously, but to them the ends apparently justify the means.

[Revolutionary91]

Gravy, what is the source for United Airlines being in possession of the wreckage?

[Gravy]

Then, Apathoid, the news report that stated 95% of the wreckage was recovered could also be wrong.Second time: when will you be contacting United Airlines?

And start a new thread if you're going to continue with your flight 93 blazing ignorance.

[Unsecured Coins]

that would be news REPORTS and it wouldn't be the first time the truth movement ignored more than one source of information, would it?

[Revolutionary91]

According to local residents, it is the authorities that are desecrating the site. They are building ,essentially, a theme park with hotels etc to turn the site into a proper tourist attraction. Somebody is profitting from that.

[Gravy]

Gravy, what is the source for United Airlines being in possession of the wreckage?You obviously have some reading and comprehending to do. Flight 93 / Shanksville Summary of Evidence (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93shanksvillesummaryofevidence%2Cman)

[T.A.M.]

I thought it was -really- odd that he didn't post a link to the original article when asking _WHY_ there were armed guards. Because that's -exactly- what the article is about.

Here's the original: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/politics/pa/20070613_Pa__will_pay_for_patrols_at_crash_site.ht ml

Here's some choice quotes from the article:

Kind of funny when truthers own sources answer their question. But you see, asking questions that imply sinister motives is more important than the truth to these people. It's intellectually dishonest, obviously, but to them the ends apparently justify the means.

ok, so if the article is infact correct, than the guard was hired to save the need of using collection money, and is provided at the request of the mourners to protect the site...

Yes revolution, sounds really suspicious to me...

NEXT!!!

TAM;)

[T.A.M.]

According to local residents, it is the authorities that are desecrating the site. They are building ,essentially, a theme park with hotels etc to turn the site into a proper tourist attraction. Somebody is profitting from that.

While this is perhaps, in bad taste (though do not know the ins and outs of it), it says nothing about 9/11 inside job, in any way, so what is your point again?

TAM:)

[DGM]

http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=1840

We went over this at great length and even contacted "Iron Mountain". You will find all your answers in this thread. They do not have plane wreckage, They do however have mementos from the crash site. Read and learn please.

[Revolutionary91]

I suggest people here watch the video. An employee of Iron Mountain confirms that flight 93 wreckage is there under armed guard. Are you refuting this?

[Revolutionary91]

While this is perhaps, in bad taste (though do not know the ins and outs of it), it says nothing about 9/11 inside job, in any way, so what is your point again?

TAM:)

My point was that people here are up in arms about the idea a truther might put some graffiti on the site, but are completelyuninterested in the idea of building a theme park on it for profit.

[T.A.M.]

ok...so this is what we have:

1. A video where an employee of Iron Mountain confirms there is "flight 93 wreckage" being held there.

2. A phone call where a resident near the UA93 crash site says there is an armed guard there.

3. a news article which, when read IN FULL, IN CONTEXT, makes it clear that the guard was hired to save the need for the plane victim family members to collect money with a donation box in order to get one, to protect what they consider sacred ground.

So far what you have is completely innocent, with perhaps point #1 asking some questions...so here is one.

If the employee is right, and they have wreckage, than what wreckage, what parts? How much wreckage? a couple of pieces?

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

My point was that people here are up in arms about the idea a truther might put some graffiti on the site, but are completelyuninterested in the idea of building a theme park on it for profit.

That was not your point when you came here and started the thread...but nice cop out now that we have nailed you on that point.

TAM:)

[Unsecured Coins]

well, would YOU have a problem with me spray painting the url to my website on the headstone of one of your relatives?

[T.A.M.]

Agreed. I will not discuss UA93 further on this thread.

TAM:)

[Gravy]

They are building ,essentially, a theme park with hotels etc to turn the site into a proper tourist attraction.Like the World Trade Center site, the Somerset site has been a place of interest to many people since 9/11. They are not building a theme park there. They are building a memorial.

Why do people who claim to stand for the truth constantly lie? Is it that they cannot, or that they will not, stop?

[T.A.M.]

So to recap...

1. Iron Mountain employee says they are holding "flight 93 wreckage", no qualitative or quantitative comments.
2. Security hired, perhaps, but from the article, it is clearly to protect the site from vandalism.
3. Site having a memorial built, and perhaps some hotels to allow for the growing influx of concerned americans who wish to go there to pay their respects...

did I miss anything?

TAM:)

Edit: sorry, now I am done...

[Kryptos]

So to recap...

1. Iron Mountain employee says they are holding "flight 93 wreckage", no qualitative or quantitative comments.
2. Security hired, perhaps, but from the article, it is clearly to protect the site from vandalism.
3. Site having a memorial built, and perhaps some hotels to allow for the growing influx of concerned americans who wish to go there to pay their respects...

did I miss anything?

TAM:)

The security guard is real, but is hired and paid for by the coal mining company that owns the land, as he has explained to me when I've stopped by. Used to be the Somerset County police that patrolled the site, but can't afford to do that anymore. There is only one guard on duty at a time, who is not there 100% of the time, but comes by periodically to check on things. The site is fenced off, which is the main protection. I doubt he's armed. He protects the site and keep tourists, vandals, truthers, and troublemakers like killtown out because it's @$#!# HALLOWED GROUND restricted to family members only.

I highly doubt there will be any hotels that close to the site. The memorial will b e simple. I doubt there will be too many more visitors than currently come to see the temporary memorial. There may be a few new hotels in Somerset, which is a good several miles away. Shanksville is the closest town, which is tiny, with a small general store and 1-2 other small shops, some churches, a school, fire station, and some houses. That's about it. It won't be turned into a "theme park".

At Iron Mountain, "there are more than 400 boxes of memorabilia that mourners left at the crash site of Flight 93, which went down in Somerset County on Sept. 11, 2001. The boxes are filled with items, including gloves, sports equipment and toys, all left by people in the past four years. A papier-mache U.S. flag created by a middle school in Little Rock, Ark., sits in a corner, wrapped in plastic to prevent fading. In the middle of two large shelves filled with boxes lies a bench with engravings from visitors to the crash site. Messages are inscribed all over the bench, paying respect to those lost in the tragedy." - http://www.psu.edu/dept/comm/news/roarw05/mountain.htm

This is all massively exaggerated, and extremely rude to hijack the thread. I won't comment on this anymore.

[Revolutionary91]

I apologise for diverting the thread. Not my intention, I just wanted to make a general point about secrecy surrounding the evidence.

[DGM]

I apologise for diverting the thread. Not my intention, I just wanted to make a general point about secrecy surrounding the evidence.
This is not a secret. All you have to do is research. Little old me was able to find out all this info too.

[Par]

The Philadelphia Inquirer | Date: 6/12/2007



Well, you got caught red-handed trying to deceive people there. Does that not faze you at all? Does that not make you think twice about what you’re doing?

[Undesired Walrus]

Jeff from Pumpitout phoned several witnesses in the area of the crash recently. One of them confirmed the guard around the site. Why is the wreckage so secret?

Ah, so now it has changed from "Armed guards" to "One guard".

Do you actually mean it is a little police officer called Bobby who is on his nightshift sipping some bad coffee and thinking of some birdwatching at the weekend? Some distance from 100 armed troops with M-14's eh?

Also, 70 posts in 12 hours? Crikey!

[pomeroo]

Pity they cannot show us this 95% of the wreckage.



Do you think it's a pity or are you lying? Do you think the wreckage recovered from the crash site should simply sit somewhere, available for incompetent examination by cranks with deranged political agendas?

You have brought no facts whatever to this discussion. You have cited a newspaper report confirming that the crash site has been designated a monument and there is a guard posted. So what?

Your baseless fantasy that, for reasons even a conspiracy liar couldn't begin to fathom, the wreckage of Flight 93 has been gathered up and left in Pennsylvania is utter nonsense. You waste everyone's time with your silliness.

[Yaters]

I apologise for diverting the thread. Not my intention, I just wanted to make a general point about secrecy surrounding the evidence.

Here's a little tip. You can edit your posts before you publish them. Next time, write your post, and sit back and re-read it. Ask yourself, "Am I making my point clear and concise, or am I playing a childish game, exaggerating points, and not reading my own research closely enough?"

It's very easy to come here and state your point/claim and present your own evidence. The problem is that you and many others choose to beat around the bush and try to manufacture the response you want from us.

If your goal is truth, and you are benevolent, you should have no problem being clear and concise with your intentions.

[DavidJames]

Revolutionary91
Why have you not acknowledged the source of the "armed guards"?
Why have you not contacted UA as you said you would in post 17 of this thread?

While you may have wanted to make a point about secrecy, what you actually did was prove once again how CTists are unable to perform basic research, believe only what fits into their CT fantasy and refuse to acknowledge when they are wrong.

I will give you credit, at least you have an excuse for acting like a 15 year old.

[PhantomWolf]

Revolutionary91,

Have you ever been allowed to see the remains of VJ 592? How about TWA 800? How about AA 587? AF 4590? BMA 92? Why not? What are they hiding in those cases?

[Unfit4Command]

Why is it a surprise that SOME of the wreckage is being held under armed guard? Obviously not all of it is being held, I think United would notice something like this.

"Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley."
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/inv.pennsylvania.site/index.html

I think at this point United would be saying something along the lines of, "Ummm...yeah, we never got any of the wreckage, it's apparently inside of Iron Mountain."

Pity they cannot show us this 95% of the wreckage.

Even if you saw all of the wreckage, you would say it's fake. After all, you can see some photographs of wreckage through an EPA report, Moussaoui Trial exhibits, and other various sources. Is that fake? Would it be any different if United came out to show all of the wreckage? I doubt it.

[Arus808]

anyone have a link to an article where it states that United airlines go their plane back?

[Revolutionary91]

Revolutionary91,

Have you ever been allowed to see the remains of VJ 592? How about TWA 800? How about AA 587? AF 4590? BMA 92? Why not? What are they hiding in those cases?


In those cases we saw the wreckage in the form of a reconstruction of the aircraft.

[uk_dave]

In those cases we saw the wreckage in the form of a reconstruction of the aircraft.

No, you were shown footage of a reconstruction and you was told it was TWA800

So, do you think the 'conspirators' would be unable to show you some wreckage like the TWA800 and claim it was flight 93? You'd believe them, right?

(BTW- Are you admin just for the youth section of LCF, or does your power extend over the whole site? Just askin')

[Arus808]

anyone have a good map that shows the distance of Flight 93 crash site to the lake where they found 1 piece of debris. they're trotting out the 8 mile claim again

[Revolutionary91]

Can somebody change the title of this thread to Secrecy and flight 93, rather than 73. I didn;t even start the thread.

[Revolutionary91]

anyone have a good map that shows the distance of Flight 93 crash site to the lake where they found 1 piece of debris. they're trotting out the 8 mile claim again

Do you have a shift key on your keyboard?

[Unfit4Command]

anyone have a link to an article where it states that United airlines go their plane back?

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/inv.pennsylvania.site/index.html

"Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley."

anyone have a good map that shows the distance of Flight 93 crash site to the lake where they found 1 piece of debris. they're trotting out the 8 mile claim again

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z80/911pictures/Shanksville/flight93debris-1.png

The only debris that blew 8 miles was a piece of paper as far as I know.
http://www.flight93crash.com/MyPittsburghLIVE.htm

[Revolutionary91]

You trust the mainstream news report about UA having the debris but you dont trust the one about Iron Mountain having the debris.

[Unfit4Command]

You trust the mainstream news report about UA having the debris but you dont trust the one about Iron Mountain having the debris.

I'm not sure who you're directing this at, but I never said I didn't believe Iron Mountain had any debris. Debris probably is in Iron Mountain, but there's no way of knowing how much, and United also has some according to the above news report.

[Arus808]

one more; anyone has a link to an article or report on the debris found and how deep they had to go to find them? and also the explanation as to why the plane burried so deep into the ground?

[Unfit4Command]

one more; anyone has a link to an article or report on the debris found and how deep they had to go to find them? and also the explanation as to why the plane burried so deep into the ground?

I'm not 100% sure how deep the workers at the site dug before stopping, I've heard as much as 45 feet. This article talks about workers needed a backhoe to assit in the debris clean up:
"At one point, searchers stopped using hand tools and brought in a backhoe to assist with the search. Thursday night, as the backhoe was moving mounds of dirt in a crater that was about 30 feet deep, the flight data recorder fell to the ground. The cockpit voice recorder was found later."
http://www.faa.gov/sept11portraits/portraits4.cfm?portrait=Horak

The reason it dug into the ground from what I've heard is first of all, the speed. The plane was traveling at nearly 580 MPH when it struck the ground, or 850 feet per second. The soil was also fairly soft in the area Flight 93 crashed, this helped add to this effect.

Another example of a plane basically burying itself is with Kenya Airways Flight 507.
"The wreckage in the thick jungle indicated the plane flew nose-first into the ground at a nearly 90 degree angle. It was found buried deep in a crater of reddish-brown muck with only tiny bits of the rear fuselage and wings left above ground."
http://www.1001crash.com/index-page-cdescript-accident-Kenya_B737-lg-2-crash-1.html

[Arus808]

so no "physics" report concerning why? damn. this uhum $#$$ wants a scientific explanation (with calculations) why a plane would burry so deep.


The reason it dug into the ground from what I've heard is first of all, the speed. The plane was traveling at nearly 580 MPH when it struck the ground, or 850 feet per second. The soil was also fairly soft in the area Flight 93 crashed, this helped add to this effect.

ufortunately the truther who wants this explanation can't think for herself, so she wants a report that explains it.

[uk_dave]

Just say 'common sense'. He'll understand that.

Better yet, ask him/her to prove that it wouldn't have buried itself.

I get increasingly annoyed with 'truthers' who want the official account defended all the time, and yet from their position on the fringe of accepted belief, they refuse to provide any viable reason why the official account is incorrect.

[Jonnyclueless]

I can't stop laughing about the claim of a theme part being made there!

Are you gonna try to tell us they're building a roller coaster to simulate the last minutes of the flight next?

[Arus808]

Just say 'common sense'. He'll understand that.

Better yet, ask him/her to prove that it wouldn't have buried itself.

already asked. she turned around and asked "I want a report that tells me why it burried so deep"
she doesn't posses "common" sense judging by her posts.

I get increasingly annoyed with 'truthers' who want the official account defended all the time, and yet from their position on the fringe of accepted belief, they refuse to provide any viable reason why the official account is incorrect.

shes of teh "i ask questions" and when you give answers "she asks the same question again"

[uk_dave]

already asked. she turned around and asked "I want a report that tells me why it burried so deep"
she doesn't posses "common" sense judging by her posts.



shes of teh "i ask questions" and when you give answers "she asks the same question again"

Then just keep asking questions back at her.

How dense was the soil?
How fast was the plane travelling?
What was the density of the plane?
What was the effect of the fuel explosion on impact?

Let her prove that the plane wouldn't have buried itself so deep.

[Unfit4Command]

I don't understand what truthers expect a plane traveling at 580 MPH to do when it impacts fairly soft soil. Why do people need to make calculations about this? Of course a large portion of the plane will burrow itself underground, some it will not, as seen in photographs, especially several photographs in the Flight 93 EPA report, and Moussaoui trial exhibits.

Do people need to do calculations about the Kenya airways crash? Or is it believable that a plane can crash and bury itself just as long as it doesn't occur on 9/11.

Is the truther you're debating a no-planer who believes the crash scene was staged? If that's the case, I recommend asking her how the crash scene could have been staged, Chippy did a great job in his blog on this subject. http://911debunker.livejournal.com/9172.html

[Unfit4Command]

Let her prove that the plane wouldn't have buried itself so deep.

You should know by now that Truthers very rarely answer questions. They just ask them, over...and over...and over...and over...and over again even though it has been debunked several times.

[uk_dave]

You should know by now that Truthers very rarely answer questions. They just ask them, over...and over...and over...and over...and over again even though it has been debunked several times.

Fair enough, so people see that the 'truthers' have no answers.

The reality is that flight 93 crashed, exploded, broke into very small pieces, some of which buried themselves deep into the soft ground. 'truther', prove that this could not be true.

[MortFurd]

I don't understand what truthers expect a plane traveling at 580 MPH to do when it impacts fairly soft soil. Why do people need to make calculations about this? Of course a large portion of the plane will burrow itself underground, some it will not, as seen in photographs, especially several photographs in the Flight 93 EPA report, and Moussaoui trial exhibits.

Do people need to do calculations about the Kenya airways crash? Or is it believable that a plane can crash and bury itself just as long as it doesn't occur on 9/11.

Is the truther you're debating a no-planer who believes the crash scene was staged? If that's the case, I recommend asking her how the crash scene could have been staged, Chippy did a great job in his blog on this subject. http://911debunker.livejournal.com/9172.html
They expect it to look like this:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_10976469758552d156.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7006)

From here:
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html

Somewhere there's a sketch that Killtown made that's pretty much just a drawing of that montage.

[Spins]

I can't begin to imagine how monumentally stupid you have to be to think the crash site should have looked like that when the plane hit the ground at ~580mph!

[Spins]

Do you have a shift key on your keyboard?Do you have the ability to admit you were wrong about any of the claims you made in this thread?

[CurtC]

Of course a large portion of the plane will burrow itself underground, some it will not, as seen in photographs, especially several photographs in the Flight 93 EPA report, and Moussaoui trial exhibits.
My own intuition for how it would do this, is that the pieces near the tail of the plane would likely be found the deepest.

In an impact like that, where the forces involved are much larger than the force required to tear the metal pieces apart, you can view their behavior during the impact as if it's approximately a liquid. You can see that in effect on the videos of the F4 hitting a concrete wall at Sandia - you see what's basically a splash of metal and concrete debris coming out of the imact. As more and more of the plane hits some ground and splashes part of it away, the crater gets deeper for the part of the plane farther back to hit. The heavier, stronger pieces don't splash out as much so are more likely to be found in the crater.

[MortFurd]

I can't begin to imagine how monumentally stupid you have to be to think the crash site should have looked like that when the plane hit the ground at ~580mph!
Monumental, industrial grade stupid. Stupid so concentrated it has formed neutronium stupid and is as preparing to collapse into a blackhole of stupid, but is too stupid to figure out how to make the final collapse.

Stupid so bad that if their IQ were their bank balance, they'd be owing the bank money until hell freezes over - even if they were paying the debt back at a trillion dollars a minute.

Stupid that is so stupid it attacks intelligent people and makes them into stupid spreading stupid zombies.

If I had as many pennies as those guys have stupid, I'd be rich. I'd be filthy rich. I'd be so rich, I'd buy Microsoft, fire everybody, start a bunch of new software companies and hire them all back.

"The Stupid, like Dust." (Apologies to Asimov.)