Existential Terror

[phildonnia]

Much has been written about the psychological adaptations to the most obvious aspects of the human condition: particularly the inevitability of death. Since most religions seem to address this directly (and some would say that that is the very reason that religion exists) I am curious how the materialist/atheist deals with it.

The philosophical and intellectual approaches to the subject have been already done on this forum; but they leave any reader with a impression that atheists don't suffer “existential terror”or have somehow reasoned it away. However I doubt it very much. I'm a “strong” atheist myself, and I have certainly found myself wishing at times that there were a God who could save me. Surely I'm not the only one?

What do we do? Make ourselves so busy that we don't have time to think about it? Secretly embrace supernatural salvation schemes? Or are people atheists precisely because they don't have this problem?

[ImaginalDisc]

Life has the meaning you give it. Write a book, paint a picture, raise a child, plant a tree. The universe will eventually end and whatever we build will eventually unravel but the point of life isn't permenance and immortal deeds, it's simply to live.

My $0.02.

[Wings]

Much has been written about the psychological adaptations to the most obvious aspects of the human condition: particularly the inevitability of death. Since most religions seem to address this directly (and some would say that that is the very reason that religion exists) I am curious how the materialist/atheist deals with it.

The philosophical and intellectual approaches to the subject have been already done on this forum; but they leave any reader with a impression that atheists don't suffer “existential terror”or have somehow reasoned it away. However I doubt it very much. I'm a “strong” atheist myself, and I have certainly found myself wishing at times that there were a God who could save me. Surely I'm not the only one?

What do we do? Make ourselves so busy that we don't have time to think about it? Secretly embrace supernatural salvation schemes? Or are people atheists precisely because they don't have this problem?

I don't know what is going to happen to me after I die. I don't know if the universe is going to cycle or end, or continue on in some form. I don't know if my body will somehow recycle back into me, or whether my components will never again meet up as me. I don't even know if I am me, or simply a projection of me in some virtual reality program. I don't know if when I die, I'm going to disappear or awaken somewhere else.

But, what I do know is, I only have 24 hours each day to live and those hours don't come back. If I waste that time fretting over my death, I miss out on living. If there is an afterlife, it would be a waste of time to worry about it now. If there isn't an afterlife, it would be a waste of time to worry about it now.

[MWare]

As a long-time strong atheist as well, I don't have any evidence that there is anything to fear about death. Obviously everybody must think about their own death every now and again, but that doesn't mean we need to "worry" about it.

I don't think I "worry" about it (other than making sure that I have a will and my dependents are provided for, which they are). I don't try to fool myself by saying I'm too busy to think about it. I just figure that since I have little control over it, and I can't anticipate when it will happen, that I'm not doing myself any service by becoming distracted by it. Maybe as you say, I'm just reasoning it away.

I will say I have worried about a painful period immediately preceding death (disease, trapped under a bus, etc.), but once death occurs, I shouldn't have anything to worry about. There is also the possibility that death will be welcome when it comes (see trapped under a bus above).

[tsg]

Don't take life so seriously. You'll never get out of it alive.

[Jimbo07]

I will say I have worried about a painful period immediately preceding death (disease, trapped under a bus, etc.), but once death occurs, I shouldn't have anything to worry about. There is also the possibility that death will be welcome when it comes (see trapped under a bus above).

Yup. I'm far more worried about pain than death.

I'm not so worried about being unimportant after death, because I'm relatively unimportant now. The few things I still do want to achieve, I want to achieve for their own value. My interests are my own...

[Phil]

When asked if he feared death, Mark Twain once said, "I was dead for billions of years before I was born, and it never inconveienced me in the least."

I reason it away like this:

The fear most of us hold onto is for the process of dying; pain, disease, dismemberment, etc. Any other fears we harbor about death are erroneously projected onto the condition of being dead as though we might somehow continue to experience them; regret, longing, etc.

But the capacity to feel and experience anything is only present when we're alive. Once dead, we no longer experience the elements that cause fear, and we no longer experience the feelings we erroneously project onto the condition of being dead. Yes, all good feelings are erased with death, but so are all bad feelings.

There is simply no reason to fear death.

[aggle-rithm]

It's not like my death is going to happen in my lifetime...

[tsg]

It's not like my death is going to happen in my lifetime...

Oh, sure. Just make your children deal with it. I get it. "It's not going to hurt me. Why should I care?" Nice attitude, buddy. Let's just all go around dying and not worry about who has to clean it up.

[D'rok]

Much has been written about the psychological adaptations to the most obvious aspects of the human condition: particularly the inevitability of death. Since most religions seem to address this directly (and some would say that that is the very reason that religion exists) I am curious how the materialist/atheist deals with it.

The philosophical and intellectual approaches to the subject have been already done on this forum; but they leave any reader with a impression that atheists don't suffer “existential terror”or have somehow reasoned it away. However I doubt it very much. I'm a “strong” atheist myself, and I have certainly found myself wishing at times that there were a God who could save me. Surely I'm not the only one?

What do we do? Make ourselves so busy that we don't have time to think about it? Secretly embrace supernatural salvation schemes? Or are people atheists precisely because they don't have this problem?

We fear death because we are aware of it, i.e., we are aware that we are finite. We are aware of death because we experience Time as History - our lives are occupied by work designed to bring a project envisioned in the future into the present through knowledge and experience of the past . If History ends, we no longer experience Time in the same way - we become "re-animalized" and live in the Eternal Now.

So, to remove the fear of death, we remove the awareness of death. We remove the awareness of death by changing our Historical perception of Time. We change our Historical perception of Time by ending History. We end History by immanentizing the eschaton, by bringing heaven down to earth in the form of the Universal Homogenous State in which all contradictions of self-consciousness have been resolved. We bring the Eternal into Time.

When everyone is both Master and Slave and perfect Universal Freedom has been actualized, History ends. Historical future-oriented action is no longer possible. Thought and Action, Subject and Substance are one. Action is not possible; only behaviour. We will be immortal because we will no longer know that we will die.

Immortality = the NWO

[/Kojeve]

How's that for crazy?

[Dark Jaguar]

I consider "net worth" a faulty concept to judge a life on. That "net" will never come, even (especially?) if you live forever. Rather than living for some unattainable "end value" just experience whatever joy you can get out of each moment.

I also acknowledge that death means I don't feel or experience anything, no void, no nothing, so it's not even a state, much less an unpleasent one.

That said, I'd sure like to have as many moments as possible. So yes, I fear death. I'd rather not die right now, for example. I still have too much I want to do. Indeed, I'd rather not die EVER. I don't consider a fear of death unreasonable at all, because I'd rather experience the good and the bad than nothing (yes I know once I'm dead I won't care, that's what I'm afraid of, in a sense). I don't think it's unreasonable at all to fear death. Just don't let that distract you from living.

[phildonnia]

Well, I've heard a couple things before; "Life has whatever meaning you give it" is a nice thought, but if a zillion years from now the universe is a thin soup of non-interacting photons, then no it really doesn't have any meaning, whether you give it or not.

I've been very fortunate to have lots of nice moments in my life; but of course, remembering them isn't the same as experiencing them. I think many people see life like a basketball game: it does not matter one whit how much of the game you have the leading score. Only the end matters. And in life, well, you pretty much lose everything.

Imagine your child is afraid of a monster under his bed. You tell him there isn't one. You tell him to make friends with it. Or laugh at it. Or whatever, but in any case this is certain: it does exist, and it will devour him.

[Robin]

Well, I've heard a couple things before; "Life has whatever meaning you give it" is a nice thought, but if a zillion years from now the universe is a thin soup of non-interacting photons, then no it really doesn't have any meaning, whether you give it or not.
Then neither would it have life, so the expression would still be true.

[Robin]

Much has been written about the psychological adaptations to the most obvious aspects of the human condition: particularly the inevitability of death. Since most religions seem to address this directly (and some would say that that is the very reason that religion exists) I am curious how the materialist/atheist deals with it.

The philosophical and intellectual approaches to the subject have been already done on this forum; but they leave any reader with a impression that atheists don't suffer “existential terror”or have somehow reasoned it away. However I doubt it very much. I'm a “strong” atheist myself, and I have certainly found myself wishing at times that there were a God who could save me. Surely I'm not the only one?

What do we do? Make ourselves so busy that we don't have time to think about it? Secretly embrace supernatural salvation schemes? Or are people atheists precisely because they don't have this problem?
It has never been a problem for me. I used to take the whole God idea quite seriously when I was a kid. It was in fact quite a relief when I realised I was only going to die.

[Liquid_Grace]

When asked if he feared death, Mark Twain once said, "I was dead for billions of years before I was born, and it never inconveienced me in the least."

I reason it away like this:

The fear most of us hold onto is for the process of dying; pain, disease, dismemberment, etc. Any other fears we harbor about death are erroneously projected onto the condition of being dead as though we might somehow continue to experience them; regret, longing, etc.

But the capacity to feel and experience anything is only present when we're alive. Once dead, we no longer experience the elements that cause fear, and we no longer experience the feelings we erroneously project onto the condition of being dead. Yes, all good feelings are erased with death, but so are all bad feelings.

There is simply no reason to fear death.

Agreed, but I would add that I, too, fear the process (pain, suffering, etc.) but I also worry about those I'll leave behind - my son, maybe my husband, and their feelings. It's well enough to say that as an athiest, I don't fear death, but having lost people myself I would like to spare those that love me pain. I know, however, this isn't possible. But it's very human to project those reasonable fears about others on to yourself.

I don't worry about myself, though - once it's over, it's over. I've only got this time here, and really, it doesn't matter if 100 years from now I'm just a name on a tombstone, I enjoyed the time I had when I had it.

Cheers,
Grace

[Lord Muck oGentry]

Much has been written about the psychological adaptations to the most obvious aspects of the human condition: particularly the inevitability of death. Since most religions seem to address this directly (and some would say that that is the very reason that religion exists) I am curious how the materialist/atheist deals with it.

The philosophical and intellectual approaches to the subject have been already done on this forum; but they leave any reader with a impression that atheists don't suffer “existential terror”or have somehow reasoned it away. However I doubt it very much. I'm a “strong” atheist myself, and I have certainly found myself wishing at times that there were a God who could save me. Surely I'm not the only one?

What do we do? Make ourselves so busy that we don't have time to think about it? Secretly embrace supernatural salvation schemes? Or are people atheists precisely because they don't have this problem?

I can't remember feeling any fear of extinction itself after early childhood. And I was religious then, dammit!

Of course, childhood fears may return nearer the time. However, unless I go gaga, I shan't be able to take any comfort in what I see as fairy tales. False hope is no hope. If I'm lucky, I shall go out like my maternal grandfather, who called for whisky and cigars, and died singing. If I'm unlucky, I shall go out in a blue funk.

Scots have a saying:

Ye're born in pain, ye live in fear, an' ye die alane.
Aye, it's a grand life---if ye dinna weaken! :)

[Marquis de Carabas]

Well, I've heard a couple things before; "Life has whatever meaning you give it" is a nice thought, but if a zillion years from now the universe is a thin soup of non-interacting photons, then no it really doesn't have any meaning, whether you give it or not.
Of course it has no meaning. That's why it's fun. Meaningless existence is the only existence worth having. I'd be much more terrified of the prospect that there was a point to all this.

[blobru]

Hey, I'm glad people fear death sometimes... driving's dangerous enough as it is; imagine an Evel Kneivel in every SUV on the freeway! :scared:

Ok.
Existential terror: the thought of one's own non-existence. Actually, the terror is the experience of the thought of one's own non-existence, not the thought, per se. The thought is neutral. And the experience [of non-existence] is nothing (probably). But the experience of the thought [of the experience of nothing] is terror. Not too much sense there. Or comfort either.

I guess all it really means is you're alive, right? I don't believe theists get off any easier, when the moment comes. Everybody shrinks from it, but it's never as bad as you think. So don't think about it. I tell myself. <fidget, gulp>
:explode:words:

[l0rca]

Much has been written about the psychological adaptations to the most obvious aspects of the human condition: particularly the inevitability of death. Since most religions seem to address this directly (and some would say that that is the very reason that religion exists) I am curious how the materialist/atheist deals with it.

The philosophical and intellectual approaches to the subject have been already done on this forum; but they leave any reader with a impression that atheists don't suffer “existential terror”or have somehow reasoned it away. However I doubt it very much. I'm a “strong” atheist myself, and I have certainly found myself wishing at times that there were a God who could save me. Surely I'm not the only one?

What do we do? Make ourselves so busy that we don't have time to think about it? Secretly embrace supernatural salvation schemes? Or are people atheists precisely because they don't have this problem?

I'm sorry you're so afraid of death. I hope the fear doesn't steal your logic away into taking up a religion.

I disagree with you on why you think religion exists. I think religion started from the human inclination to assume things have meaning, and from our evolution, consider phenomena happening around us to have purpose towards us, which would require our consideration and paranoia. Another way to say it is that I believe religion is most likely the combined accident of humans not realizing where meaning comes from, and needing to assume social and animal predators and nature are deeply connected to their lives. Good essay here:

http://bill.srnr.arizona.edu/classes/596b/Schaffer/God-Accident.html