Justice at last

[American]

Priest who Wrecked 130 Lives Finally Bites the Big One (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95527,00.html)


Too bad it's not 60 years ago. Someone might actually get in trouble for this.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Officials were probing the incident and the other inmate involved was isolated.

The priest would have enjoyed that. :eek:

[Tony]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


The priest would have enjoyed that. :eek:


Only if he was the one doing the probing. ;)

[Cleopatra]

I do not know the practice in American jails but in Greece child molesters stay in isolation for their safety since they are targets of the rest of prisoners, especially of those that they have been convicted for murder.

A shrink has attempted to explain to me once why murderers find child molestation so repulsive that they go as far as murdering the molesters who join them in prison.

I have heard rumours about rituals that prisoners perform when they "trial" and execute a molester by battering him to death but such things have never been confirmed by the administration of the prison.

What so ever, maybe it's needless for me to say that the man who killed the priest did him a great favor. He saved him from prison and more of humiliating trials where more of his repulsive acts would be exposed and punished and of course the murderer didn't bring any comfort to the victims.

This is not Justice as the author of the thread suggests.

[subgenius]

Simplistic bloodthirsty thinking.
This is the opposite of justice.
Vigilante justice is an oxymoron.
If he had gotten the death penalty, fine.
He did not get the death penalty. The prison officials failed to carry out justice, and should be held accountable.
When they fail to carry out the judgement of the court we all lose our rights to due process.
Imagine if you got jailed for say larceny and got assaulted in prison. Got what you justly deserved?

[subgenius]

So is anyone in favor of putting justice in the hands of racist murderers? Yeah, they have good judgement. And when they turn to you....

The suspect, who is described by his father as a white supremacist with a hatred of homosexuals, is already serving a life sentence for murder.

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=779C03D2-A283-4A98-8452176406C14B55

[American]

Originally posted by subgenius
So is anyone in favor of putting justice in the hands of racist murderers? Yeah, they have good judgement. And when they turn to you....

The suspect, who is described by his father as a white supremacist with a hatred of homosexuals, is already serving a life sentence for murder.


http://suessims.simshost.com/wsd-samples/pic-violinist.gif

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by subgenius
The prison officials failed to carry out justice, and should be held accountable.


I haven't read anything about that but I take it for granted that the officials of the prison will be in trouble... they will. Right?

[American]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I haven't read anything about that but I take it for granted that the officials of the prison will be in trouble... they will. Right?


No doubt the ACLU is having orgasms over it.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


I haven't read anything about that but I take it for granted that the officials of the prison will be in trouble... they will. Right?
Because the guy was a child molester people like our thread starter think that justice is suspended.
Not realizing that he may be the next person to need justice.....and not get it.
His response to whether we should put justice in the hands of racist murderers shows that further discussion in this thread will be futile.
See you elsewhere.

[American]

Do you really want to make him a martyr for the evil of homophobia? Looks like you almost went there, then you pulled back quick.

[Mr Manifesto]

People like American like to know they aren't quite at the bottom of the food chain.

[Cleopatra]

Well, I wanted to start a thread about this serious topic but then I thought to give it a try in "American's" thread, he has said that he would change after all.... Right!

[subgenius]

My post had nothing to do with "the evils of homophobia" but everything to do with vigilante justice even for the vilest of creatures.
Only came back to the thread to see if anyone else had the same perception of the thread starter. I guess I can't keep track of the duck brained trolls. My bad.
I too was going to start a serious thread, please do.
Unsubscribe me again.
I'm putting a post it note on my screen.

[calladus]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I do not know the practice in American jails but in Greece child molesters stay in isolation for their safety since they are targets of the rest of prisoners, especially of those that they have been convicted for murder.

Yes, here too. The inmates have a social 'ladder' that they can advance for taking out child molesters.


What so ever, maybe it's needless for me to say that the man who killed the priest did him a great favor. He saved him from prison and more of humiliating trials where more of his repulsive acts would be exposed and punished and of course the murderer didn't bring any comfort to the victims.

This is not Justice as the author of the thread suggests. I completely agree - killing this b*stard hurt more than it could ever have helped. He should have stood for ALL of his crimes, not just the first of many convictions.

[calladus]

Originally posted by subgenius
The prison officials failed to carry out justice, and should be held accountable.
When they fail to carry out the judgement of the court we all lose our rights to due process.
Agreed - hold the prison officials accountable, and definitely charge the inmate who strangled John Geoghan to death.

But this inmate, Joseph L. Druce, should not be given a death sentence for his evil, he had help. He could not have done this without opportunity. If the opportunity was given to him, then the jailers used Druce as their weapon.

If the jailers could protect Geoghan, and didn't, then they are culpable. If they tried to protect Geoghan, and couldn't, then it is the state's fault.

Geoghan's death will prevent his victims from achieving closure. Any intelligent person would see this as a net loss, and a damned shame.

[Shinytop]

I find I cannot shed any tears for this dead man but I can for our concept of justice that allows people to cheer prison inmates who take justice into their own hands. The system is rotten.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I do not know the practice in American jails but in Greece child molesters stay in isolation for their safety since they are targets of the rest of prisoners, especially of those that they have been convicted for murder.

A shrink has attempted to explain to me once why murderers find child molestation so repulsive that they go as far as murdering the molesters who join them in prison.

I have heard rumours about rituals that prisoners perform when they "trial" and execute a molester by battering him to death but such things have never been confirmed by the administration of the prison.

What so ever, maybe it's needless for me to say that the man who killed the priest did him a great favor. He saved him from prison and more of humiliating trials where more of his repulsive acts would be exposed and punished and of course the murderer didn't bring any comfort to the victims.

This is not Justice as the author of the thread suggests.

It especially ironic given that many of these same prisoners indulge in their own prison form of pedophilia, taking advantage of the youngest and better looking prisoners.

I think it is nothing more than everybody needing to feel there is always someone who is worse than they are.

[American]

Originally posted by Shinytop
I find I cannot shed any tears for this dead man but I can for our concept of justice that allows people to cheer prison inmates who take justice into their own hands. The system is rotten.


For you, a quartet........


http://suessims.simshost.com/wsd-samples/pic-violinist.gif http://suessims.simshost.com/wsd-samples/pic-violinist.gif

http://suessims.simshost.com/wsd-samples/pic-violinist.gif http://suessims.simshost.com/wsd-samples/pic-violinist.gif




You liberals deserve a whole symphony from me.

[Supercharts]

Geoghan is dead.
He abused between 130 and 160 young boys.
He has no opportunity to screw up anymore lives.

Praise the Lord!
[Oh, thank you Ed_God for your mercy]

:D Bwahaha:D

Worst paedophile in recent memory.

No more bum ****s with young men.
Murdered by a Neo-Nazi.

It all works out.
Justice is served.
The Law be damned. Justice wins. [There is a difference.]

[Bjorn]

American et al,

You seem to think that it is OK that a child molestor is killed by some other inmate while in prison.

Some other group might, hypothetically, think it is OK to kill people like you, who obviously mock the laws.

Who are to decide if this is OK or not? Isn't it the law of the country, as it changes through times?

As a conservative, do you believe that laws are here to be respected? Or does that only apply to laws you personally agree with?

:c2:

[Skeptic]

I think that people are confusing two things here. MORALLY, the pedophile priest deserved to die. This doesn't mean that LEGALLY this should be the case, or that such murder should be encouraged.

Sometimes, NOT to do things we think are morally right is a virtue--for example, when there is a higher moral principle involved, such as the rule of law and the violation of other people's rights to life, as in this case.

It is one thing to say that someone deserves to die. It is quite another thing to say that I (or anybody) has the right to kill them.

[American]

Originally posted by Bjorn
American et al,
As a conservative, do you believe that laws are here to be respected? Or does that only apply to laws you personally agree with?


Flaws in the system are exploited by all kinds- good and bad. So go ahead and fix the system already, you've been crying for years about it.

Meanwhile, evil men continue to cause endless harm to innocent people. I don't see why the good should live by a double standard in their fight for justice as long as the system is broken, and criminals use it all the time in their favor.



Don't make me find a sadder instrument to mock you with. That violinist is all I got.

[jj]

Originally posted by American
Do you really want to make him a martyr for the evil of homophobia? Looks like you almost went there, then you pulled back quick.

Say what?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by American
Meanwhile, evil men continue to cause endless harm to innocent people. I don't see why the good should live by a double standard in their fight for justice as long as the system is broken, and criminals use it all the time in their favor.We have a system for handling criminals, from petty thieves to child molestors.

The system tried and convicted him.

If you are not satisfied with those laws, try to change them. The law of the mob won't solve any problems.

Again, as a conservative, do you believe we should break laws that are not to our liking? If so, should all of us (including those who would like to kill you) have the same right?

As for crying for years about something - you don't have a clue about what I've been crying for when it comes to the laws of the US.

[American]

I don't revel in death and execution. I'm quite neutral, and I know it's a heavy burden for uniformed men to carry out. Honestly, in this case I only seem happy that others are mad about it. I rather wish he had lived, but it's OK that got what he asked for in the end.

Understand that? I'm only glad that bleeding hearts and convict-loving lawyers are pissed over it, all because I'm a spite-filled jerk.

No other reason!

[American]

Originally posted by Bjorn

Again, as a conservative, do you believe we should break laws that are not to our liking? If so, should all of us (including those who would like to kill you) have the same right?


The point is this-- no matter what, right or wrong, scum WILL kill me if they get the chance. It's not even a question; they will kill me, and you and any beautiful person we love. They do it every day, all over the world.

You'll see things differently when you understand that reality. I don't think you'll be so quick condemn alternative justice, which in the right situation is protected by law (... and is your moral duty, and for some a religous duty as well, by old jewish teachings. This athiest believes that much of the ancient scriptures, anyway).

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by American
The point is this-- no matter what, right or wrong, scum WILL kill me if they get the chance. The point is exactly if you think it is right or wrong that people (in this case an inmate) kill someone they feel deserve it - instead of, or after, the person in question has been tried and convicted and is doing his prison time.

Some kid will be raped tonight, it doesn't matter if I think it is right or wrong. Should the beast who did it be tried by our justice system, or do you think it is right that he is killed by a mob?

If you think it is right, please explain why your mob is different from one who kills a jew. Is it because you 'know' one of them deserves it, and not the other?

Isn't this what we have laws to decide on?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by American
I don't think you'll be so quick condemn alternative justice, which in the right situation is protected by law Let's stick to the case - it isn't.

[American]

There's an existential edge to it, I admit. You are only what you do. Do whatever the hell you want, but a wise person will look at the consequences.

Your beloved system is flawed. It allows evil to thrive. Not when skin-heads kill pedophiles, but when pedophiles f-ck little boys, rapists do your sister, and scumbags try and kill nice guys like me for the 20 bucks that I carry.

(The point about old jewish faith, which I didn't make clear enough, is that it's your duty to use violence when necessary to protect your family. A little tangental, but still related.)

Father Faggot got what he deserved, and you're mad about it. I'll never understand that.

[SRW]

While I am not going to shed a tear that this scum bag met such an inglorious end, I hope the people who should have been protecting him are held to account.

What I do not understand is the feeling expressed by some that somehow the victims of this man were cheated. I would think that his victims would be celebrating. What makes anyone think that the victims are anything but thrilled?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by American
Father Faggot got what he deserved, and you're mad about it. I'll never understand that. According to the law of this country, he got what he deserved when he was tried, convicted and imprisoned.

When he was killed, he got what you think he deserved.

Do you think that someone, anyone, who doesn't think the law gave someone what he deserved, should be allowed to give him an additional punishment?

Should KKK have such rights?

[American]

Originally posted by jj

Say what?


There are folks who would almost paint Geoghan as the victim of a hate-crime. Which I suppose he is, but that would put him in a category with poor Mathew Sheppard, technically. Neither side wants to make an argument like that.

[American]

Originally posted by Bjorn
According to the law of this country, he got what he deserved when he was tried, convicted and imprisoned.

When he was killed, he got what you think he deserved.

Do you think that someone, anyone, who doesn't think the law gave someone what he deserved, should be allowed to give him an additional punishment?

The law of this country is an abstract idea. It doesn't "think" anything. It is only what it DOES, and nothing else.

Yes, he got what I think he deserved. Are you too weak to make judgements, even though you don't have to act on them? If I go killing pedophiles because I don't like them, I expect I'll get in tremendous trouble for it (even if it's OK to kill them), so I don't go around doing that. Even if they deserve it and I don't think I'll get caught, I still know there's a tiny chance I could get caught, and besides I don't want the burden of murder on my conscience like 99% of people don't want it.

Should KKK have such rights?

The KKK does have "the right" in a way, in that they lynch people no matter what. They will ALWAYS use that "right", as they understand it for what it is- an abstract idea that needs teeth to back it up.



How will good ever win over evil, if evil gets to break the rules? The only argument is that good is no longer good if it breaks the rules too. Oh well. Sucks to the law, I guess. This weekend, some skin-head scored one for the good guys. So why are lefty lawyers crying about it? They like to cry, I guess.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by American
Yes, he got what I think he deserved. I interpret this as 'It was right' (to kill him).

Are you too weak to make judgements, even though you don't have to act on them?No. I think we have a system where the law will try, and punish, alleged criminals - even more so in this case when the creep was actually found and tried.

If I go killing pedophiles because I don't like them, I expect I'll get in tremendous trouble for it (even if it's OK to kill them)And here we are at the core question again: You think it's OK to kill them.

Don't you see that if you can kill those who you think deserve it, others might feel the same and think they have a right to kill you?

What is this, if not the law of the mob?

The KKK does have "the right" in a way, in that they lynch people no matter what. No - they don't have the right to do so, and that is why they will be tried and convicted by the law.

The judge who put a beast in jail for life or gave him death will not.


How will good ever win over evil, if evil gets to break the rules? The only argument is that good is no longer good if it breaks the rules too. Oh well. Sucks to the law, I guess. This weekend, some skin-head scored one for the good guys. So why are lefty lawyers crying about it? They like to cry, I guess. And one of the the differences between good and bad is to play by the rules or not.

Good luck to you when we all stop to do so.

[Shinytop]

Originally posted by American



For you, a quartet........




You liberals deserve a whole symphony from me.

You are some piece of work. You can call somebody a liberal cuz they believe in the rule of law. Last I heard that was a conservative position. Don't presume to label me. You do not know enough about me and it only serves to make you look more the fool. And your symphony is sooooooooo cute.

[Zep]

American obviously believes that ANY action by others he agrees with, lawful or otherwise, is 100% "good". And ANY action by others he DISagrees with, lawful or otherwise, is 100% "bad".

So basically, he just doesn't believe in the law at all since his views are the same regardless.

Is that a basis for justice? You decide... :rolleyes:

[Ed]

The circumstances of his death are completely unclear. He could have died during rough sex or it might have been self defense. It might have been an accident. Now a question for our liberal friends: Why are you not extending the same presumption of innocence to the alleged murderer as you would h\extend to any other accused individual?

Personally, I think that nothing befitted that priest more than the leaving of life. My opinion.

[Zep]

Having been convicted in a court of law of some henious crimes, I could think of nothing more befitting than keeping him alive to ensure he was properly punished over a long period of time - like the rest of his natural life. My opinion.Why are you not extending the same presumption of innocence to the alleged murderer as you would h\extend to any other accused individual? Sure, why not. Didn't he confess, though? And wouldn't he probably plead guilty? And maybe be sentenced to death? And thus fail to serve out his own imprisonment? Oh well, they will save on total food costs for that jail now...

[American]

Don't you see that if you can kill those who you think deserve it, others might feel the same and think they have a right to kill you?

You're still ignoring reality- they WILL try and kill me. You shouldn't be here trying to convince me how great our system is, you should be out talking to real murderers, drug addicts, and rapists telling them that they had "no right". When you convince them all, then get back to me and I'll worship "the system" like you want me to.

No - they don't have the right to do so, and that is why they will be tried and convicted by the law.

Wrong, they obviously do have a right to do so and they prove it every time they kill someone and then go off and have a beer over it, and nothing happens to them. Innocent people go on dying while they walk free, and others are wrongly convicted besides. They've proven they have a right to kill. Stop badgering me and go take that right away from them!

No. I think we have a system where the law will try, and punish, alleged criminals - even more so in this case when the creep was actually found and tried.

What is the system but people? 12 random idiots, a pretty boy lawyer who didn't get beat up enough as a kid, and an old man at the bench who went to the right dinner parties to get appointed there.

What is this, if not the law of the mob?

As opposed to what - a mob of rich and dumb congressmen? I'll trust the village mob with my life any day over them.



I'm describing the way things are, not the way they "should be". You will never achieve your system; it's a broken dream and an illusion at best.



It's mainly individuals (cops and citizens at the scene of a crime) who decided if justice happens or not. You'd rather wait for a dead body, then pray that 12 morons are able to agree on a verdict.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American


What is the system but people? 12 random idiots, a pretty boy lawyer who didn't get beat up enough as a kid, and an old man at the bench who went to the right dinner parties to get appointed there.



Oh dear. Childhood was good to you, wasn't it?

[American]

According to your view, everything will work out great- they have the skin-head in custody, they have a body for evidence, and your phony circus side-show is going to convict and sentence him.

And what will happen? He'll go back to jail or get a death sentence, and then everything will be right with the world again! Because the system was followed!

Wow great system. It didn't do sh-t to protect people, and if that's what you call justice, then I weep for the victims that could have been prevented by promoting good human judgement over blind faith in laws that don't protect anyone.

[American]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Oh dear. Childhood was good to you, wasn't it?

You're the one watching porno and scratching your head over Title 18. Don't pick on my upbringing! :rolleyes:

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American


You're the one watching porno and scratching your head over Title 18. Don't pick on my upbringing! :rolleyes:

Have you ever thought that if you watched a little porno instead of 'waiting for the right one to come along' that maybe you'd relax and not act like such an idiot all the time?

Go on- it won't kill you. And let's face it- the sort of girl you're waiting for could do better than you with a pig s--t necklace and third degree burns on her face.

[American]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
And let's face it- the sort of girl you're waiting for could do better than you with a pig s--t necklace and third degree burns on her face.


Fag.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by American



Fag.

Your friend GP wants to talk to you in JREF Community. This forum's for grown ups. Run along, now.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Your friend GP wants to talk to you in JREF Community. This forum's for grown ups. Run along, now.

LOL. He scuttled over there as soon as he read my post. Sounds like GP has a secret admirer, whatever American's protests to the contrary.

[Michael Redman]

Originally posted by Ed
Now a question for our liberal friends: Why are you not extending the same presumption of innocence to the alleged murderer as you would h\extend to any other accused individual?Did someone say the murderer doesn't deserve a fair trial? Is some liberal saying that he ought to just be summarily killed?

Like Shinytop said, respect for the rule of law doesn't necessarily make one liberal.

[c0rbin]

My gut says one thing, my mind says another. Reconsiling (sp?) those impulses makes us human.

[Ed]

"Mr. Brouillette said the guard on duty heard noises coming from Mr. Geoghan's cell, went to investigate and saw Mr. Druce standing on top of the bunk and jumping on and off Mr. Geoghan"

From the NYT

Never mind.

[Shinytop]

American Justice

We love our children. We love all children. And one of the reasons we love children is the absolute trust they place in us. Children are so completely in our care that we have an immediate visceral reaction when they are made victims.

We love our pets. We love all pets. And one of the reasons we love pets is the absolute trust they place in us. Pets are so completely in our care that we have an immediate visceral reaction when they are made victims.

One only has to check out JREF forums to see the accuracy of those statements.

So let’s examine citizens who are under suspicion of a crime. We don’t let officers even take statements without advising the citizen of his rights. We stand very proudly and talk about innocent until proven guilty. We make sure the accused has a lawyer even when he has no money. We make sure an accused requests for release while awaiting trial are fairly heard. During the trial the accused can question his accusers. The rules of evidence that law enforcement is required to follow are detailed to make sure the accused is not railroaded. We take good care of the accused citizen.

Then what happens when the accused is convicted? Now remember, this convicted felon is totally in our care through our local, state, or federal governments. We are his sole source for food, shelter, and safety. But he is different from our children and our pets. He is a convicted felon. He belongs behind bars.

So now, we take this convicted felon and throw him away. Yup, that’s what I said. We put them in a prison population and let the other inmates decide his fate. And it’s not just about murdering somebody who is the slime of the planet. It’s about the baddest guy in town can have slaves, sexual and otherwise. Putting them in prison without TV or DSL is not cruel and unusual punishment. And rape and beatings and murder is not unusual but it damn sure ought to be. We do not have the right as a society to condemn anybody to these forms of punishment, yet we do it daily. And we dismiss it as deserved and we say, WTF, it has been like this forever.

[calladus]

Originally posted by SRW
While I am not going to shed a tear that this scum bag met such an inglorious end, I hope the people who should have been protecting him are held to account.

I agree completely.


What I do not understand is the feeling expressed by some that somehow the victims of this man were cheated. I would think that his victims would be celebrating. What makes anyone think that the victims are anything but thrilled?
These victims WERE cheated - closure is part of payment received when this child molester is sentenced to that person's crime. It tells the world that the victim is vindicated - it brings out the crime, acknowledges it, makes the criminal atone, and helps the victim start to overcome.

Instead, now that this guy is dead, legally there is nothing that says that he is responsible for his crimes to any victim who has not received his time in court.

In fact, it looks like this priest's past convictions may not only be overturned due to his death, but erased completely. It may be possible for Geoghan to be buried with a clean name, while his victims must live with their pain. Geoghan's death could void conviction (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030828/lo_WCVB/1761030)

[calladus]

Originally posted by Zep
American obviously believes that ANY action by others he agrees with, lawful or otherwise, is 100% "good". And ANY action by others he DISagrees with, lawful or otherwise, is 100% "bad".

I think it is more simple than that - Agree with American, and you are a GOOD conservative.

Disagree and you are a Bad ol' LIBERAL!

:confused:

[SRW]

Originally posted by calladus

I agree completely.


These victims WERE cheated - closure is part of payment received when this child molester is sentenced to that person's crime. It tells the world that the victim is vindicated - it brings out the crime, acknowledges it, makes the criminal atone, and helps the victim start to overcome.

tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20030828/lo_WCVB/1761030]Geoghan's death could void conviction[/URL]

I heard some of the victims interviewed on TV. And yes they did feel cheated. I didn't realize that they had not gotten the closure that they needed. So they are victums again.