Jesus said he was god

[citytom]

I've heard some Christians state that "Jesus never said he was god". Others say he said he was. Anyone know of any citations?

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Citations? Why not just look in the Bible?

Dr. Stupid

[Yahweh]

The 10 Commandments are introduced with the phrase:

"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."
- Exodus 20:2

Of course, some people dont accept this to mean Jesus is God because the 10 Commandments were given to Moses some 2000 years before the birth of Christ. The phrase itself has also been (mis)interpreted to suggest that Moses himself was God.

Also, some people intepret "God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" as meaning God is Jesus.

Some people believe God manifest himself in flesh as Jesus.

But, there are a few contradictory statements such as this one

"And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."
-John 5:11-12

It does not imply that Jesus is God, but instead Jesus is the son of God.

Heres a reference:
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t005.html

[citytom]

To Stimpson J. Cat: What do you mean "just look in the bible".
You make it sound like its all over the place. Have you looked in the bible? Do you know of a citation in the bible where it says Jesus claimed he was god?

To Yahweh: Thanks. I was wondering if there was something more substantial than the quote from John.

[ImpyTimpy]

I think modern Christianity interprets Jesus as being God. When I asked the local minister for an explanation I got "it's complicated". Of course, the idea that Jesus = God does not make sense when given Jesus's many words referring to God as an external identity.

I do not think that even Christians understand the concept very well. It's sort of being glued together and placed under the "God works in mysterious ways" label so it wouldn't be questioned.

Originally posted by Yahweh
The 10 Commandments are introduced with the phrase:

"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."
- Exodus 20:2

Of course, some people dont accept this to mean Jesus is God because the 10 Commandments were given to Moses some 2000 years before the birth of Christ. The phrase itself has also been (mis)interpreted to suggest that Moses himself was God.

Also, some people intepret "God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" as meaning God is Jesus.

Some people believe God manifest himself in flesh as Jesus.

But, there are a few contradictory statements such as this one

"And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."
-John 5:11-12

It does not imply that Jesus is God, but instead Jesus is the son of God.

Heres a reference:
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t005.html

[evildave]

Of course, part of the problem is that we have multiple versions of the Jesus story which recount his actions and his words differently. For any story I can cite that implies Jesus says he is God, someone can cite another that implies he rejects the label. Sometimes from the same book.

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+4&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on
Jesus is challenged by the devil to prove he's the Son of God. Good old Matt would have no way of knowing this if Jesus did not recount to him the tale.

(Unless he made it all up.)

"Son of God" is repeated ad-nauseum throughout the NT.


My google search for "How did Jesus become God"
http://www.google.com/search?q=How%20did%20Jesus%20Become%20God&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Yielded up this article as #1, which (after a little digression) gets down to some useful citing and interesting history about the evolution of the Jesus mythology.

How Jesus Became God (http://www.westarinstitute.org/Periodicals/4R_Articles/Jesus_to_God/jesus_to_god.html)

Of course in John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

... (More ranting) ...

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[4] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

... Then John goes on to "He-e-e-e-e-ere's Jesus!

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=John&x=0&y=0
(I usually use this biblegateway place because it offers lots of versions of bible.)

[Stimpson J. Cat]

[b]citytom,[b]

To Stimpson J. Cat: What do you mean "just look in the bible".

Basically I mean this. If you accept the Bible as a reliable source of information about Jesus, then the only way to answer the question of whether Jesus said he was God or not is to look in the Bible, and see whether it says he did or not. Anybody who makes claims about Jesus that are not based on the Bible, is making unverifiable claims. There is no way to distinguish a person who has some legitimate divine knowledge on the subject from somebody who is insane, or just making it all up.

If you don't accept the Bible as a reliable source of information about Jesus, then the entire question becomes moot, because without the assumption of validity of the Bible, Christianity itself baseless.

You make it sound like its all over the place. Have you looked in the bible?

Yes, I have.

Do you know of a citation in the bible where it says Jesus claimed he was god?

I know of no passage in the Bible where Jesus is quoted as having claimed to be God. That was essentially my point. If it isn't in the Bible, then what difference does it make what other people have written on the subject? What is their source, if not the Bible? Why attach any relevance to their opinion on the matter if their opinion is not based on any source?

Frankly, I think the whole thing is silly, because the Bible is not a reliable source of information either. We cannot verify any of the claims made about Jesus in the Bible, or any of the claims made in the scriptures that were not incorporated into the Bible.


Dr. Stupid

[Jet Grind]

Originally posted by citytom
I've heard some Christians state that "Jesus never said he was god". Others say he said he was. Anyone know of any citations?

Stimpson J. Cat beat me to saying this, but all claims about Jesus are moot unless you accept the Bible as a reliable source of information.

[evildave]

Unless you want to play the Bible Game by the rules that the believers play by.

The Bible is the Word Of God.
No, The Bible was Inspired By God.
No, The Bible was DIRECTLY written by God... The Bible SAYS SO!
Holy War!
Jihad!
Kill!
Die!

[Yahweh]

If the bible was written by God, then I must say that God isnt the best knife in the shed, not the cleanest class in the bag, not the roundest marble in the draw, not the sharpest tool in the cupboard.

If the bible was inspired by God... I dont want to meet God in person because he sounds like he might be understable.

If the bible was written by man, I want to congratulate those men for writing the absolute worst book in the history of literature. Not only does it teach good wholesome family values (like killing homosexuals, witches, and people who worship differently than you, for reference see Deuteronomy 17:1 to 18:12), but its a good moral guide (if you think demeaning women is A-Ok!, hey how about in Exodus 4:24 when God smote down Moses because he wasnt circumsized). Moral guide??? I think not, I dont believe its possible to take the bible in a figurative context.

Seriously, some of the stuff in the bible is so far out that children couldnt believe the things written in it (wow, so many people had really long lifespans, whats up with that, big flood, God created Light on the first day but forgot to create the objects that emit light until the fourth day).

[/rant]

[Cinorjer]

As has been pointed out, a statement beginning "Jesus said" is already wrong. We don't know what Jesus said. You can only talk about what the writers of the various stories we call the Bible claims Jesus said, and they often disagree.

The Gospels often have Jesus refering to himself as a a "Son of Man", and people have been arguing about the exact meaning of that for a long time. He is pictured often refering to God as his father, and at one point was supposed to say he'd be sitting next to God in Heaven. The picture is never that Jesus is equal to God.

But then the church evolved Jesus from Messiah to actual son of God to one leg of a trinity, God in three equal bodies. As a doctrine it relies heavily on a few obscure verses such as the Logos reference in the Gospel of John. You might say it rests on the authority of the Church and tradition rather than a reading of what the Bible actually claims.