Senate’s Morning Prayer Interrupted

[grayman]

From WHAT’S NEW by Robert L. Park
PRAYER: SENATE’S MORNING PRAYER WAS INTERRUPTED YESTERDAY.
Hindu priest Rajan Zed, the first Hindu asked to lead a Senate prayer, was
just getting started yesterday when protesters from a fundamentalist
Christian anti-abortion group began shouting “this is an abomination” from
the Senate visitor’s gallery. Abomination? The prayer was as
inconsequential as any other opening prayer. But why, in light of the
First Amendment, is any prayer offered? Maybe the Senate should consider
Transcendental Meditation instead.

Another article here (http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/NEWS18/70712009).

His prayer was briefly interrupted by three Christian protesters who were sitting in the Senate gallery.

“Lord Jesus, have mercy on us,” one shouted before he was escorted out. “We shall have no other God before you.” All three were arrested.

Comments?

[Complexity]

There should, of course, be no institutionalized prayer or religious reference in any part of government.

[Wings]

Ha ha, arrested! Serves them right for interrupting Lord Vishnu's prayer service! Seriously though, I agree with Complexity that we shouldn't even have any type of religion or religious services in any part of the government.

[Solus]

Why does the senate need an organized morning prayer? The members of senate should have prayed before they entered the capital building. The morning prayer is wasting time and therefore wasting my tax dollars...

The Christian fundies are just doing what fundies do.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Why does the senate need an organized morning prayer? The members of senate should have prayed before they entered the capital building. The morning prayer is wasting time and therefore wasting my tax dollars...

Because unless our government kisses the Almighty's celestial ass each day, He, in his infinite anger, will raise the divine deflector screens and let the moos-lims, commies, and queer-mo-sexuals destroy America.

And we think we're a modern, 21st century, civilization. :rolleyes:

[jesus_freak]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???

[Hokulele]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???


It was also founded exclusively by white males. Does this mean that women and minorities have no place in government?

[Wings]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???

That's open for debate. I've heard it stated that the founding fathers were deists. At the very least, our constitution was framed with seperation of church and state, thereby making any argument about the founders religion moot.

[Achán hiNidráne]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???

So what? You really ought to learn something about your Country's history before you go running your pie-hole...

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.


-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


On the other hand, I agree with Complexity: Our government should not be wasting our time and money with displays of religiosity for the rubes at home when there is work to be done.

[Achán hiNidráne]

That's open for debate. I've heard it stated that the founding fathers were deists. At the very least, our constitution was framed with seperation of church and state, thereby making any argument about the founders religion moot.

Careful... all we need now is our resident lying sack-of-*****, DOC, to show his ugly mug, quoting Christo-fascist swine like Kennedy and Barton, and it's the Jefferson thread all over again.:rolleyes:

[JoeEllison]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???That's sort of stupid, don't you think?

[wollery]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???If you're referring to the founding fathers, then it should be noted that they undertook a seriously hazardous journey, and almost all died in their first year, in order to escape persecution by, um, other Christians. And they would all have died if it hadn't been for the kindness and help of a bunch of pagans (that would be the natives who helped them find food).

If you're referring to the framers of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution then, no, several of them were not Christians, but Deists.

[JoeTheJuggler]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???
Not true.

[JoeTheJuggler]

If you're referring to the founding fathers, then it should be noted that they undertook a seriously hazardous journey, and almost all died in their first year, in order to escape persecution by, um, other Christians.

That's the Pilgrims, isn't it? Not the same thing as the founding fathers. The framers of the Constitution (and so on) were the founding fathers.

And most of the big names were certainly NOT Christians. Those that were, were decidedly against establishing a state religion, religious tests for holding office, etc.

BTW, if they keep having morning prayer in the Senate, I demand that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster be allowed to lead prayer once in a while.

[The Atheist]

It was also founded exclusively by white males. Does this mean that women and minorities have no place in government?

Well, they don't do they?

Which of these (http://www.presidentsusa.net/presvplist.html)is either female or from a minority group?

We're nearly rid of morning prayer in Parliament here. Gone by christmas, with luck. Ridiculous bloody thing.

[wollery]

That's the Pilgrims, isn't it? Not the same thing as the founding fathers. The framers of the Constitution (and so on) were the founding fathers.

And most of the big names were certainly NOT Christians. Those that were, were decidedly against establishing a state religion, religious tests for holding office, etc.

BTW, if they keep having morning prayer in the Senate, I demand that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster be allowed to lead prayer once in a while.Apologies, I did indeed mean the Pilgrims.

[boloboffin]

Who moved the rock?

[kmortis]

Who moved the rock?

:redface1
I'm sorry. I was trying to get the mower out, and the deck kept catching on it...I didn't mean to knock it into the gulley, crushing those campers...I'm sorry, I was drunk at the time.

[Hokulele]

Well, they don't do they?

Which of these (http://www.presidentsusa.net/presvplist.html)is either female or from a minority group?

We're nearly rid of morning prayer in Parliament here. Gone by christmas, with luck. Ridiculous bloody thing.


Ask the same question again by the end of next year and we'll see if the answer holds. ;)

[Tony]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???

So? This nation was founded by guys who wore funny (by today's standards) pants. According to your logic, government dress codes should eternally conform to the popular styles of the late 18th century.

[petra10]

Do politicians have to make some sort of pledge to god and country? here in Britain I think its to god and the queen.There should be no prayers of any sort in parliment or any goverment places.Even in courts you must swear on the bible to tell the truth if you state you dont believe in god or the bible,well you can imagine how that would go down.

[Kopji]

The Hindu prayer selection was an interesting one associated with Agni. Agni can draw many parallels to Jesus, but is more ancient.

O Lord almighty, enkindled on the altar, confer upon us your treasures--you who gather all things into one, even what comes from the stranger! Gather together, converse together! Your minds be of one accord, just as in harmony the Gods of old took their ritual shares of oblation! United be your counsel, united your assembly, united your spirit and thoughts! A single plan do I lay before you; a single oblation do I offer! United your resolve, united your hearts, may your spirits be at one, that you may long together dwell in unity and concord!
Rig Veda, 10.191.1-4
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2003/10-12/16-17_vedas.shtml



The most appropriate Vedic symbol for the lordship of the Lord is perhaps the figure of Agni, the friend of Man, the mediator, the sacred and sacrificial fire, and at the same time the fire that is in the Sun, in burning things, and in the heart of Man, everywhere the same and yet everywhere different, having varied and even almost contrary effects. The devotion to Agni does not represent nature worship, much less pantheism; it is the recognition of an underlying polymorphic reality that softens wax and honey but hardens mud, dries up plants, may bring life or death, and always transcends all our powers, mental as well as physical. Agni is near to Man, kindly disposed, intimately bound up with his life, the guest of his dwelling...

...He is powerful and yet accessible to Men, full of goodness and mercy, inspiring devotion in such a way that Man approaches him fearlessly as a friend, not as an abstraction or a distant and formidable deity. The lordship of Agni is not seen as the imposition of a divine will, but as an expression of the normal and beautiful order of reality.

Raimundo Panikkar
ibid


So, well. Not so much an abomination as presenting dangerous ideas to the public. Jesus not such a unique idea. Only three protesters? That's not enough to spread awareness of other traditions.

[wollery]

Do politicians have to make some sort of pledge to god and country? here in Britain I think its to god and the queen.There should be no prayers of any sort in parliment or any goverment places.Even in courts you must swear on the bible to tell the truth if you state you dont believe in god or the bible,well you can imagine how that would go down.Actually, in UK court you can choose from a wide range of oaths, with many different religious texts, including a non-religious affirmation.

[Marquis de Carabas]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???
Let us assume for the sake of argument that this statement is absolutely correct. The founding fathers were all 100% born-again Bible-believing Christians. (See other responses, though, for the tenuous nature of this claim.) If true, why does it follow that we should all be Christians, or even that our government should be?

These men, Christian or not, were revolutionaries. They attempted to design and implement the best system of government they could based on the state of society and of human knowledge at the time. If they approached you today, after a few hundred years of mind-boggling advancement in knowledge and in the midst of a radically different cultural milieu, and asked why some feature of our government was the way it was, and you produced nothing better than "because that's the way you guys did it", I imagine they would be quite dismayed that you had put no more thought to it than that.

[The Atheist]

Ask the same question again by the end of next year and we'll see if the answer holds. ;)

What? You think Gore will take Hillary as a running mate????

[Cheesejoff]

because this nation was founded by CHRISTIANS???

Sweden was technically founded by PAGANS!!!

[JoeTheJuggler]

Do politicians have to make some sort of pledge to god and country? here in Britain I think its to god and the queen.There should be no prayers of any sort in parliment or any goverment places.Even in courts you must swear on the bible to tell the truth if you state you dont believe in god or the bible,well you can imagine how that would go down.
None of these are required in the U.S. You can choose to affirm rather than swear an oath if you choose.

In fact, any religious test to hold office is forbidden. From Article VI of the U.S. Constitution:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

[petra10]

Strange then if any religious test to hold office is forbidden,that they say prayers at all in the senate.Is it voluntary that you can go in early to say the prayers or you can go in later when the praying is finished.

[Solus]

BTW, if they keep having morning prayer in the Senate, I demand that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster be allowed to lead prayer once in a while.

Don't forget frisbeeism too! It may be a much smaller religion but we will not be denied the same rights! :mad:

[kmortis]

Don't forget frisbeeism too! It may be a much smaller religion but we will not be denied the same rights! :mad:

Ahh...frisbeeism. Best evangilism motto ever:

Frisbeeism, Catch It!

[blutoski]

Strange then if any religious test to hold office is forbidden,that they say prayers at all in the senate.Is it voluntary that you can go in early to say the prayers or you can go in later when the praying is finished.

The prayer in Congress and Senate is defended on the same grounds as the "In God We Trust" passage on currency: SCOTUS ruled that it is not a religious endorsement, but a "tradition."

What a load.

[tsg]

Strange then if any religious test to hold office is forbidden,that they say prayers at all in the senate.Is it voluntary that you can go in early to say the prayers or you can go in later when the praying is finished.

To my knowledge, participation in the prayer is not mandatory. I would have to imagine, though, that refusing to participate might get you, at the very least, some funny looks.

[petra10]

Oh well if its a "tradition" what can I say :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And the old Its not compulsary but very much frowned upon,another old "tradition".

[PrincessIneffabelle]

Well, thank Odin participation isn't "mandatory"!

So, that leaves me with these options:

1) Act like I'm praying (dishonest and yucky).

2) Object and be physically removed and ridiculed on the intarwebz.

3) Refrain from participating and be forced to waste my time listening to religious traditional nonsense.

3a) Endure the agony of eye-sprain due to excessive :rolleyes: .
3b) Several brain cells commit suicide rather than deal with religious crap traditional American governmental session openers.

4) Compose and send a formal complaint letter to the alien Overlords on Planet X.

[tsg]

My prediction is that we will see a black lesbian as President before someone who is openly atheist.

[tsg]

Well, thank Odin participation isn't "mandatory"!

So, that leaves me with these options:

1) Act like I'm praying (dishonest and yucky).

"Lord, save me from your followers."

[PrincessIneffabelle]

"Lord, save me from your followers."

Cognitive dissonance overload

Head asploads

[grayman]

My prediction is that we will see a black lesbian as President before someone who is openly atheist.

I believe you are correct (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/black_president_more_likely_than_mormon_or_atheist _/).

[tsg]

I believe you are correct (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/black_president_more_likely_than_mormon_or_atheist _/).

In light of this new evidence, I predict we will see a 75-year-old, divorced, mormon, lesbian of black and hispanic descent as President before an atheist.

[Marquis de Carabas]

All men should go gay on their 72nd birthday. What's two percentage points?

[tsg]

What's two percentage points?

The difference between Gore and Bush.

[strathmeyer]

I find it mighty presumptuous to think we haven't had an atheist president already. Oh, and Buchanan was gay.

[Marquis de Carabas]

The difference between Gore and Bush.
I fail to see what my two favourite film genres have to do with this.

[tsg]

I find it mighty presumptuous to think we haven't had an atheist president already.

My first prediction specified "openly atheist" and I neglected to carry it through. I meant to, though.