Thermite Was Placed In Box-Columns and Spandrel Splice Gaps to Heat-Weaken WTC Steel.

[Max Photon]

---

Greetings Everyone!

Max Photon here.


Please consider the following articles:

Fire in the Hole! Max Photon Solves the Mystery of NIST Figure 9-45 (http://maxphoton.com/2007/06/19/Max-Photon-Solves-the-Mystery-of-NIST-Figure-9-45.aspx)

How Thermite Was Used To Cloak the Controlled-Demolition of the WTC Towers > To Heat-Weaken Column-Splice Bolts, So They Would Appear to Strip Naturally and Spontaneously (http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/22/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlleddemolition-of-wtc2.aspx)

How Thermite Was Used To Cloak the Controlled-Demolition of the WTC Towers > To Heat-Weaken Spandrel Splice-Plates, So Their Bolt-Holes Would Appear to Tear Naturally and Spontaneously (http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/23/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlled-demoliton-of-the-wtc-towers-to-heatweaken-spandrel-splices-by-paul-bouvet-may-23-2007.aspx)


Whenever people discuss thermite, they inevitably reveal that they have been indellibly branded by military deception, or MILDEC.

"Thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter,"
is the pop phrase that clutters the mind and makes one - well - stupid.

Note that the root of stupid is stupor.

All I am saying is that the emotionally-potent oversimplification "thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter" has put everyone in a stupor, stupid.


Max Photon is here to shine The Light.


Thermite was used in great quantities and for many purposes on 911, but thermite was not used to cut or melt steel.

Thermite was used to heat-weaken steel.


The erroneous association "thermite = cutting" is designed by MILDEC planners - and propagated by Dr. Jones et. al - to throw off serious researchers, like Yours Truly.

But Max Photon will not be kept from shining bright, even around the dullest dullards.


Three of the main uses of thermite on 911 were to:

1.) Create spectacular phreato-thermatic explosions when the jets hit the towers.

2.) Create spectacular, highly-visible, choreographed, synthetic fires, to support the pre-engineered narrative that migrating fires created differential heating which caused buckling, etc., and to brand the emotionally-potent oversimplification in everyone's mind that JETS + FIRE = COLLAPSE. (See jets crash. See buildings burn. See buildings fall down. Bad Al-Qaeda. Bad.)

3.) Heat steel to 1/2 - 2/3 of steel's melting temperature, to induce heat-weakening, to make the towers fail in what appeared to be a natural, spontaneous, uncatalyzed manner.


This thread is about #3.

Thermite was placed in perimeter-panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other steel connectors.

To repeat, the goal was to use thermite to get the towers so weakened that they would fail in what appeared to be a natural and spontaneous manner.


Thermite was used to intiate and cloak the controlled-demolitions of the WTC towers.


Regards,

Max

Do not post this again, Max - this is spamming/flooding of the forum.

[Viper Daimao]

Ah, so Steven Jones is in on the conspiracy too!

Question: Is Jones being paid off? perhaps blackmailed? or is he a member of whatever group is behind this?

[FactCheck]

A new rationalization for no one seeing planted explosives... One obvious problem though... Where is the evidence. Especially in light all the more plausible and respected scientifically published evidence.

[Par]

“This is why there’s no evidence for my theory!”

[1337m4n]

Why would you need thermite to heat-weaken the steel, if the fires were going to do that already?

Furthermore, why would steel need to be heat-weakened for you to bomb it?

[JimBenArm]

And why do you have to keep referring to yourself in the third person?

JimBenArm wants to know!

[pomeroo]

Is this clown dumb enough to be P-dope?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

---

Greetings Everyone!

Max Photon here.


Please consider the following articles:

Fire in the Hole! Max Photon Solves the Mystery of NIST Figure 9-45 (http://maxphoton.com/2007/06/19/Max-Photon-Solves-the-Mystery-of-NIST-Figure-9-45.aspx)

How Thermite Was Used To Cloak the Controlled-Demolition of the WTC Towers > To Heat-Weaken Column-Splice Bolts, So They Would Appear to Strip Naturally and Spontaneously (http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/22/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlleddemolition-of-wtc2.aspx)

How Thermite Was Used To Cloak the Controlled-Demolition of the WTC Towers > To Heat-Weaken Spandrel Splice-Plates, So Their Bolt-Holes Would Appear to Tear Naturally and Spontaneously (http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/23/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlled-demoliton-of-the-wtc-towers-to-heatweaken-spandrel-splices-by-paul-bouvet-may-23-2007.aspx)


Whenever people discuss thermite, they inevitably reveal that they have been indellibly branded by military deception, or MILDEC.

"Thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter,"
is the pop phrase that clutters the mind and makes one - well - stupid.

Note that the root of stupid is stupor.

All I am saying is that the emotionally-potent oversimplification "thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter" has put everyone in a stupor, stupid.


Max Photon is here to shine The Light.


Thermite was used in great quantities and for many purposes on 911, but thermite was not used to cut or melt steel.

Thermite was used to heat-weaken steel.


The erroneous association "thermite = cutting" is designed by MILDEC planners - and propagated by Dr. Jones et. al - to throw off serious researchers, like Yours Truly.

But Max Photon will not be kept from shining bright, even around the dullest dullards.


Three of the main uses of thermite on 911 were to:

1.) Create spectacular phreato-thermatic explosions when the jets hit the towers.

2.) Create spectacular, highly-visible, choreographed, synthetic fires, to support the pre-engineered narrative that migrating fires created differential heating which caused buckling, etc., and to brand the emotionally-potent oversimplification in everyone's mind that JETS + FIRE = COLLAPSE. (See jets crash. See buildings burn. See buildings fall down. Bad Al-Qaeda. Bad.)

3.) Heat steel to 1/2 - 2/3 of steel's melting temperature, to induce heat-weakening, to make the towers fail in what appeared to be a natural, spontaneous, uncatalyzed manner.


This thread is about #3.

Thermite was placed in perimeter-panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other steel connectors.

To repeat, the goal was to use thermite to get the towers so weakened that they would fail in what appeared to be a natural and spontaneous manner.


Thermite was used to intiate and cloak the controlled-demolitions of the WTC towers.


Regards,

Max

Sorry Max it will not work, first the flow is not iron, second the thermite reacts to the impacts so the Charges go off when the plane first impact the building. The buildings would fail faster than they did.

[Foolmewunz]

Is this clown dumb enough to be P-dope?

P-Dope? Nope!

This Paul is another Ace.... A prime example of the axiom (misappropriated axiom, I should say) that a little bit of education is a dangerous thing.

Smart lads who hang around with people of marginal intelligence and constantly hear, "Wow Ace(Paul), you really got smarts! You should like write a book or something." They begin to believe it after a while.

Max Python's math and science are every bit as brilliant as Ace's video analytical skills.

(ah, well, a post sacrificed ultimately to AAH.... I have a sincere feeling this thread's going to hell in a handbasket, soon.....)

[Cylinder]

Cylinder has nothing to add to this thread.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

---

Greetings Everyone!

Max Photon here.


Please consider the following articles:

Fire in the Hole! Max Photon Solves the Mystery of NIST Figure 9-45 (http://maxphoton.com/2007/06/19/Max-Photon-Solves-the-Mystery-of-NIST-Figure-9-45.aspx)

How Thermite Was Used To Cloak the Controlled-Demolition of the WTC Towers > To Heat-Weaken Column-Splice Bolts, So They Would Appear to Strip Naturally and Spontaneously (http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/22/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlleddemolition-of-wtc2.aspx)

How Thermite Was Used To Cloak the Controlled-Demolition of the WTC Towers > To Heat-Weaken Spandrel Splice-Plates, So Their Bolt-Holes Would Appear to Tear Naturally and Spontaneously (http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/23/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlled-demoliton-of-the-wtc-towers-to-heatweaken-spandrel-splices-by-paul-bouvet-may-23-2007.aspx)


Whenever people discuss thermite, they inevitably reveal that they have been indellibly branded by military deception, or MILDEC.

"Thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter,"
is the pop phrase that clutters the mind and makes one - well - stupid.

Note that the root of stupid is stupor.

All I am saying is that the emotionally-potent oversimplification "thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter" has put everyone in a stupor, stupid.


Max Photon is here to shine The Light.


Thermite was used in great quantities and for many purposes on 911, but thermite was not used to cut or melt steel.

Thermite was used to heat-weaken steel.


The erroneous association "thermite = cutting" is designed by MILDEC planners - and propagated by Dr. Jones et. al - to throw off serious researchers, like Yours Truly.

But Max Photon will not be kept from shining bright, even around the dullest dullards.


Three of the main uses of thermite on 911 were to:

1.) Create spectacular phreato-thermatic explosions when the jets hit the towers.

2.) Create spectacular, highly-visible, choreographed, synthetic fires, to support the pre-engineered narrative that migrating fires created differential heating which caused buckling, etc., and to brand the emotionally-potent oversimplification in everyone's mind that JETS + FIRE = COLLAPSE. (See jets crash. See buildings burn. See buildings fall down. Bad Al-Qaeda. Bad.)

3.) Heat steel to 1/2 - 2/3 of steel's melting temperature, to induce heat-weakening, to make the towers fail in what appeared to be a natural, spontaneous, uncatalyzed manner.


This thread is about #3.

Thermite was placed in perimeter-panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other steel connectors.

To repeat, the goal was to use thermite to get the towers so weakened that they would fail in what appeared to be a natural and spontaneous manner.


Thermite was used to intiate and cloak the controlled-demolitions of the WTC towers.


Regards,

Max

Sorry Max it will not work, first the flow is not iron, second the thermite reacts to the impacts so the Charges go off when the plane first impact the building. The buildings would fail faster than they did.

[Totovader]

Totovader wonders when Dr. Doom will appear.

[SezMe]

SezMe wonders when Crazy Chainsaw will realize that it is not necessary to quote the whole damn OP just to make one point.

[CHF]

Max, do you have any idea how creepy you sound?

[Gravy]

Spandrel Splice GapsYou keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.
–Gravy Montoya

[quixotecoyote]

Would you heat it in a box?
Would you heat it to melt rocks?
Would you heat it here or there?
Evidence is anywhere?

In the style of a Soap commercial!

Oops, wrong thread.....

[Alareth]

Totovader wonders when Dr. Doom will appear.


FOOL! DOOM ONLY SPEAKS IN UPPERCASE!!!

[Reality Believer]

I don't know why people try to respond to Max in a rational way. It only encourages further loonieness. If that is entertaining to you , then I suppose it is worth a go, but just know this:

Max thinks he is God. Seriously, he does. In his own words.

http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/09/an-introduction-to-max-photon.aspx

[Unfit4Command]

Unfit4Command doesn't feel like reading such flummery at the current hour. Unfit4Command may return tomorrow or at a later date.

[Dog Town]

I don't know why people try to respond to Max in a rational way.

Max thinks he is God. Seriously, he does. In his own words.

http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/09/an-introduction-to-max-photon.aspx

lawnmowerman/ "I AM GOD HERE!" /lawnman
Dude...it's a video game!

[leftysergeant]

What a fitting place for me to stick my nose through the door. I served in the Air Force as a fire fighter (1966-70) and in the Army (1977-88)as a mess sergeant, with a secondary in fire protection. I had occassion to take some arson investigation training in the Air Force, and various weapons-related classes in the Army. With that background in mind, you can imagine how I must feel every time I see someone post something to the effect that thermite was used in the WTC. If I am in a polite mood, I usually blurt something like "OH BOLLOCKS!"

I have handled thermite and several types of explosives. I see the signatures of none of them in any of the official or sureptitious photos taken of GZ or the cleanup effort.

I lend the thermite theories about as much credit as I do the chemtrails theories.

It is possible to make a shaped thermite incendiary. Just mix in a little plaster of Paris, coat it with linseed oil and let it dry, then cut the appropriate nozzle and igniter openings in the block and duct tape it to the target.

The only problem is that the blocks would have to be bloody huge for a target like the towers and I cannot imagine hiding the blinding light it would produce.

This is not to mention the difficulty of simultaneously firing the charges. Obviously, filling the ignition holes with fire fudge and dropping glycerine on it is out of the question. Mechanical links to set off a grenade-type detonator would be, as best, unpredictable with the fires blazing on random floors and occassionally back-drafting into recesses here and there.

Electric activation is also unreliable, in heat that would strip off insulation on the wires.

Radio-activated detonators in a building with a humongous cell phone or other antenna on the top involves an unreasonable risk of accidental discharge.

When some screachy advocate of the MIHOP faction challenges me and accuses me of being a government shill for bringing such things up, I have to wonder what has become of reasoning skills in this country since the 60s. I'm not even sure drugs would have anything to do with it.

Okay, the OP here is, at best, far from the most bizarre I have encountered, but, based on my hands-on experience with thermite, I cannot give it even half-serious credit.

[Dog Town]

It is possible to make a shaped thermite incendiary. Just mix in a little plaster of Paris, coat it with linseed oil and let it dry, then cut the appropriate nozzle and igniter openings in the block and duct tape it to the target.



Is this a joke? Flower and water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rwguinn]

Is this a joke? Flower and water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Must be. Everybody knows that skunks hate Puddles...

[MIKILLINI]

But Max Photon will not be kept from shining bright, even around the dullest dullards.
Sounds like the Rumsfeld school of known unknowns and unknown knowns.

[Alferd_Packer]

I'm hungry. Can I have Max for dinner?

[ConspiRaider]

ConspiRaider wonders why Mixed Futon didn't propose that a pallet of surplus hand-warmers was used to preheat the steel.

ConspiRaider wants to shine The Light through the earholes of Mixed Futon to test out quantum theory.

ConspiRaider ponders why MILDEC was used by Mixed Futon as an acronym for "military deception", when TARYCEPT would have worked just as well.

ConspiRaider reflects upon Mixed Futon's repeated usage of the terms stupid and stupor and decides Futon is speaking from a vast pool of familiarity with these mental states.

[Par]

I don't know why people try to respond to Max in a rational way. It only encourages further loonieness.



I couldn’t agree more. In fact, it’s rather frustrating and counterproductive when people do, in my opinion.

[WildCat]

WildCat wonders why he clicked on this thread, and is unable to find a rational answer.

[T.A.M.]

Par:
I couldn’t agree more. In fact, it’s rather frustrating and counterproductive when people do, in my opinion.

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/743/45022234.JPG

[peteweaver]

---
Thermite was used to intiate and cloak the controlled-demolitions of the WTC towers.


No mate, it was the Daleks who have long had an interest in New York skyscrapers...

Only one picture exists of these elusive extra terrestrial monstrosities:

http://www.infowhores.co.uk/images/comedy/wtc7-daleks.jpg

[WildCat]

WildCat here!

WildCat notices his garden needs watering!

WildCat will now go water his garden.

WildCat out!

[CurtC]

CurtC thinks that Max should test out his idea at the Loose Change Forum first.

[Myriad]

What a fitting place for me to stick my nose through the door. I served in the Air Force as a fire fighter (1966-70) and in the Army (1977-88)as a mess sergeant, with a secondary in fire protection. I had occassion to take some arson investigation training in the Air Force, and various weapons-related classes in the Army. With that background in mind, you can imagine how I must feel every time I see someone post something to the effect that thermite was used in the WTC. If I am in a polite mood, I usually blurt something like "OH BOLLOCKS!"

I have handled thermite and several types of explosives. I see the signatures of none of them in any of the official or sureptitious photos taken of GZ or the cleanup effort.

I lend the thermite theories about as much credit as I do the chemtrails theories.

It is possible to make a shaped thermite incendiary. Just mix in a little plaster of Paris, coat it with linseed oil and let it dry, then cut the appropriate nozzle and igniter openings in the block and duct tape it to the target.

The only problem is that the blocks would have to be bloody huge for a target like the towers and I cannot imagine hiding the blinding light it would produce.

This is not to mention the difficulty of simultaneously firing the charges. Obviously, filling the ignition holes with fire fudge and dropping glycerine on it is out of the question. Mechanical links to set off a grenade-type detonator would be, as best, unpredictable with the fires blazing on random floors and occassionally back-drafting into recesses here and there.

Electric activation is also unreliable, in heat that would strip off insulation on the wires.

Radio-activated detonators in a building with a humongous cell phone or other antenna on the top involves an unreasonable risk of accidental discharge.

When some screachy advocate of the MIHOP faction challenges me and accuses me of being a government shill for bringing such things up, I have to wonder what has become of reasoning skills in this country since the 60s. I'm not even sure drugs would have anything to do with it.

Okay, the OP here is, at best, far from the most bizarre I have encountered, but, based on my hands-on experience with thermite, I cannot give it even half-serious credit.


Hi leftysergeant, and welcome to the forums!

I can see how being well versed in thermite reactions might come in handy when cooking for several companies...

(Just kidding, that's not a sarcastic dig at your knowledge and experience, which I don't have any cause to doubt. Just the appreciation of an amateur chef for the difficulty of a mess sergeant's task.)

What is the linseed oil coating for?

As far as reasoning skills, I wonder how much can be attributed to the lack of critical feedback in secondary school (and from there, perhaps, to the lack of teacher training to provide such feedback). This was starting even when I was in school, and that was probably less than a decade after you were. Now and then I would deliberately write a paper full of total nonsense (with scrupulous concern for proper spelling, punctuation, etc.) just to see if anyone would ever call me on it.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[SezMe]

*SezMe unsubscribes from this thread and vows not to open it again*

[Tirdun]

Yay! Tirdun is not THRILLED to see another Max thread!
A DUPLICATE thread that makes Tirdun Cry.

Wow, Max.
This is the same crap you posted in the other thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86967), which you've yet to support in any rational way.

Spamming the forum is frowned upon, by the way.
BUT I AM SURE YOU WILL BLATHER ON REGARDLESS.

[MIKILLINI]

Max Photon here

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/Dr_Evil.jpg/800px-Dr_Evil.jpg

[Miss Anthrope]

I've never considered nominating an image post until now :)

[Pardalis]

Max Photon here.


I don't think so.

[Civilized Worm]

Hey Max Photon welcome to the JREF forums!



Best wishes,

Jim Electron

[1337m4n]

Yay! Tirdun is not THRILLED to see another Max thread!
A DUPLICATE thread that makes Tirdun Cry.

Wow, Max.
This is the same crap you posted in the other thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86967), which you've yet to support in any rational way.

Spamming the forum is frowned upon, by the way.
BUT I AM SURE YOU WILL BLATHER ON REGARDLESS.

Why do you write like Timecube Man?

[DarkMagician]

"Duffman can never die! Only the actors who play him!"

[leftysergeant]

To answer Myriad's question as to coating the thermite charge with linseed oil, this creates a non-reacting shell over the thermite The trick is to know how to apply it and how thick to let the coating get. I am not comfortable giving out too many details like that in a public place. There are MIHOPers who were probably best not trusted with too much accurate information watching what goes on here. (Do I need to name names?)

Just hanging around with soldiers from a wide variety of MOSs gave me a chance to observe and learn about things that even give me the heebie-jeebies. The trick is to learn to look for minor details. Out of curiousity, I visited Max Photon's site and had a look at a picture of one burning floor in the WTC. He pointed out what he purported to be a thermite fire right in the corner of the building. Interesting that the flames of an incendiary charge that burns metals in a shower of sparks should have square edges and the same light value as aluminum cladding surrounding it on the sun-lit portions of the walls.

[Alareth]

Why do you write like Timecube Man?

Can exposure to the Timecube affect your brain?

[Tirdun]

Why do you write like Timecube Man?
Because:

Max's website looks like a spoof of the one true Timecube website
His opening post in the original thread was quite the markup frenzy.
It's funny
I don't have any pictures of kittens handy
I suspect this thread is dead
Although a game of Morning Crescent could save it
Lists!

[Foolmewunz]

Because:

Max's website looks like a spoof of the one true Timecube website
His opening post in the original thread was quite the markup frenzy.
It's funny
I don't have any pictures of kittens handy
I suspect this thread is dead
Although a game of Morning Crescent could save it
Lists!


Neat!!!! I can see by quoting your post that you just used List/List (in the appropriate squared brackets... Do you have to include the asterisks in squared brackets or are those automatic? Testing....

Mom
Apple Pie
Acceptable PPM of Rodent Dropings in Fast Food
Cinderella
Clam Chowder
Ludwig Wittgenstein


Ah, .... If you don't put the asterisks in, you only get a bullet on the first item. (strange, that!)

Can you change the bullet styles? Where'd you learn this neat trick? I'm sure it's hidden somewhere in FAQ, but I'm a lazy bastage!
(I love lists... they make things so nice and neat and tidy.)

[Max Photon]

---

Tirdun,

I have two threads.

The first is about the jets being used to create improvised thermite.

The second is a different topic. It is about thermite - or some incendiary - that was hand-placed in perimeter-panel box columns and spandrel splice gaps.


Those two threads are entirely different.

I separated them for clarity.


Why are you claiming they are identical?

Max

---

[MIKILLINI]

---

Tirdun,

I have two threads.

The first is about the jets being used to create improvised thermite.

The second is a different topic. It is about thermite - or some incendiary - that was hand-placed in perimeter-panel box columns and spandrel splice gaps.


Those two threads are entirely different.

I separated them for clarity.


Why are you claiming they are identical?

Max

---

They are identical in the term of the word, fallacy.

[Max Photon]

---

Please explain.

---

[CptColumbo]

FOOL! DOOM ONLY SPEAKS IN UPPERCASE!!!

He also says "BAH" a lot.

[DarkMagician]

I'm hungry. Can I have Max for dinner?

Not until you finish your sundae!

[Damien Evans]

Suicide is painless,
It brings on many changes,
And I can take or leave it as I choose

See, that made more sense than the OP and it's not even on topic!

For those of you who are wondering, those words are from the M*A*S*H theme

[Big Les]

Suicide is painless,
It brings on many changes,
And I can take or leave it as I choose

See, that made more sense than the OP and it's not even on topic!

For those of you who are wondering, those words are from the M*A*S*H theme

Are you familiar with this version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-g0aBYVCgE)?

[Tirdun]

I have two threads.

The first is about the jets being used to create improvised thermite.

The second is a different topic. It is about thermite - or some incendiary - that was hand-placed in perimeter-panel box columns and spandrel splice gaps.
You are claiming in both threads that there was some large scale use of thermite to destroy WTC1 and 2. Differentiating on the delivery method, especially when you've yet to support the existence of thermite in the first place, doesn't need its own thread.



You can also do numbered lists ;)
Just do [LIST=1]

[Max Photon]

---

Tirdun,

Is there any way you can find in your heart to relinquish just an erg of control - even for one day - to let others express themselves with font sizes, or writing styles, or modes of thinking and presentation - (God you've complained about everything under the sun) - that might differ from how YOU would do it?

I understand for control people this is an incredibly tall order, and that relinquishing any control whatsoever usually brings about exotic apoplectic panic attacks, so I do not expect much.


I beg to differ that one thread is sufficient to discuss improvised thermite, and planted thermite.

It can be done, but it needlessly raises the degree of difficulty, and the risk of confusion.

By the way, thread is free, so what is your issue? (Oh yeah, control.)


It has taken me herculean effort to overcome snap-to-judgments by you and others, just to be able to separate the two concepts - and now you want to muddle them together again.


I thought my stuff is meritless? What are you even paying attention?


This is the real question. Why does Tirdun not just skip Max Photon's posts?

You obviously hate me. You hate what I say. You hate my style.

Fine. I have zero issue with that.

Just leave me alone. Skip my posts. You'll be happier. I'll be happier. (I find you trivial.)


As for the your egregiously inaccurate public accusations that my posts are identical, I demand a public apology.


Max

---

ETA: Tirdun, this applies to you: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2772623#post2772623

[Foolmewunz]

---

Tirdun,

Is there any way you can find in your heart to relinquish just an erg of control - even for one day - to let others express themselves with font sizes, or writing styles, or modes of thinking and presentation - (God you've complained about everything under the sun) - that might differ from how YOU would do it?

I understand for control people this is an incredibly tall order, and that relinquishing any control whatsoever usually brings about exotic appaplectic panic attacks, so I do not expect much.


I beg to differ that one thread is sufficient to discuss improvised thermite, and planted thermite.

It can be done, but it needlessly raises the degree of difficulty, and the risk of confusion.

By the way, thread is free, so what is your issue? (Oh yeah, control.)


It has taken me herculean effort to overcome snap-to-judgements by you and others, just to be able to separate the two concepts - and now you want to muddle them together again.


I thought my stuff is meritless? What are you even paying attention?


This is the real question. Why does Tirdun not just skip Max Photon's posts?

You obviously hate me. You hate what I say. You hate my style.

Fine. I have zero issue with that.

Just leave me alone. Skip my posts. You'll be happier. I'll be happier. (I find you trivial.)


As for the your aggregiously inaccurate public accusations that my posts are identical, I demand a public apology.


Max

---

Did you just actually write "appapleptic" and "aggregiously" in one post? Are you trying for the Norm Crosby award? Didn't they give you a spell-checker when you graduated Lumma Sum Caude from Mrs. Pickering's?

[AZCat]

---

Tirdun,

...

Just leave me alone. Skip my posts. You'll be happier. I'll be happier. (I find you trivial.)


As for the your aggregiously inaccurate public accusations that my posts are identical, I demand a public apology.


Max

---

If you find Tirdun "trivial", why are you demanding a public apology? Shouldn't such "accusations" be trivial, too?

[Max Photon]

---

Good point!

Demand retracted.

Goodbye Tirdun.

Max

---

[chipmunk stew]

Elmo thinks Mr. Max is funny!

Elmo likes kittycats. Does Mr. Max like kittycats, too?

[T.A.M.]

I think Max and mjd must be related, for never have I seen so much pointless use of rarely used linguistics. I pity anyone who must engage in a person to person conversation with these people.

You see any of us here could use such words, but what is the point? Why use appapleptic (spelled wrong, see apoplectic) when furious or outrageous or extreme might do. Why use aggregiously (spelled wrong, see egregiously) when distinct, flagrant, or glaring will suffice.

TAM:)

[Tirdun]

Is there any way you can find in your heart to relinquish just an erg of control - even for one day - to let others express themselves with font sizes, or writing styles, or modes of thinking and presentation - (God you've complained about everything under the sun) - that might differ from how YOU would do it?

OK, Max: Completely serious, non mocking post.
Your web site and posts involve a dizzying array of formatting shifts, odd forms of self-identification and an utter lack of focus. To be blunt, it distracts from whatever information you might be presenting and makes you look like a crank who favors style and flash over substance. I will point out that I was one of the few who bothered to read what you'd presented as most others had rightly written you off based purely on your inability to present information with even a tiny bit of coherence.

You ignored repeated requests for clarification, evidence or information, demanding instead that we do your work for you based on the thin sources you bothered to dredge up and your wild speculation as to how things might have happened.

I understand for control people this is an incredibly tall order, and that relinquishing any control whatsoever usually brings about exotic apoplectic panic attacks, so I do not expect much.
Post whatever you want in whatever odd formats you choose and I'll mock them accordingly. This isn't about control, its about you having lost all credibility in a remarkably short amount of time.
I beg to differ that one thread is sufficient to discuss improvised thermite, and planted thermite.

It can be done, but it needlessly raises the degree of difficulty, and the risk of confusion.
And I disagree. You've posted two threads discussing the destruction of a skyscraper in front of a large number of eyewitnesses using huge amounts of planted chemicals. In one you propose that some of the chemicals were planted manually and the rest delivered, in this one you've just reduced the complexity by one step. You've done nothing to back up either claim and have done nothing but debate the philosophy of the scientific method or complain about people not taking you seriously.

I took the opportunity to point out that people don't take you seriously because your information is not presented seriously.
It has taken me herculean effort to overcome snap-to-judgments by you and others, just to be able to separate the two concepts - and now you want to muddle them together again.
The flaws of one are the flaws of both. Changing one step in the delivery of the chemicals doesn't make this a new Conspiracy Theory.
I thought my stuff is meritless? What are you even paying attention?
I was hoping you'd add some merit. Sorry if I underestimated you.
This is the real question. Why does Tirdun not just skip Max Photon's posts?
I've said it before, initially you had a new coat of paint for an old conspiracy. It was moderately interesting and I was prompting you to expand your claims.
You obviously hate me.
I don't know you, so I can't hate you.
You hate what I say.
I find what you say to be amusing. You've manged to combine every anti-USA conspiracy theory of the last decade into one huge mega-CT. Combining 9/11 with Madrid and London and the Federal Reserve increases the number of insiders by several orders of magnitude.
You hate my style.
Absolute honest truth: your style is a huge liability to you being taken seriously by anyone. Take that as constructive criticism. If you can't present your information in some legible format without resorting to shifts in font and endless hyperbole, then people will automatically assume you're some crackpot with an axe to grind. Speaking in the third person, inventing titles, using "a.k.a" in triplicate, and inventing scientific terms are all classic signs of cranks online, which is why your posts have been ridiculed here. You at least limited your color choices.

This isn't my personal take on your "style", these are some well established clues. End of days people, the timecube guy, creationists, chemtrail people, deniers of all sorts, etc. all tend toward the same styles to hype up their rants. If you want to maintain any kind of credibility your presentation needs to tone down and fact up.

Just leave me alone. Skip my posts. You'll be happier. I'll be happier. (I find you trivial.)
Man up and get over it. Welcome to the big bad internet where people disagree with you, pick apart your claims and make fun of your nutty webpages. You should be happy that anyone here is taking you seriously. Just look at the number of mock posts in this thread.
As for the your egregiously inaccurate public accusations that my posts are identical, I demand a public apology.
Demand denied.
"egregiously inaccurate" is debatable. I still claim that you've modified your original plane+planted chemicals theory into a purely planted chemicals theory. Beyond the source of your proposed thermite, its all the same.
"public accusations" is ridiculous. I can publicly claim all sorts of opinions about your posts. I get to decide if their quality and substance are up to my personal standards of relevance and barring any libelous claims, you don't have any say in my two cents.

Still, if the forum wants to debate it, and whatever differences exist, they may do so.

ETA: Tirdun, this applies to you:
-- copied section --
Again, I'd appreciate it if you'd aim your energy at providing me with real critical input, rather than wasting it on trivial nonlinear resistors.

If you feel they make you hot, that is what resistors do - generate resistance, friction, heat. They dissipate energy. They are energy sinks. Conserve energy.
-- copied section --

Here's your critical input:

- Your formatting and ridiculous choices of language and identification make you look like a raving crackpot. Looking at the first section of the web page you posted in the original thread, I cannot believe that you honestly expect people to take you seriously, mister "Brightest Wharton MBA - Ever"
- Your utter lack of support from any credible sources critically undermines your claims.
- Your claims of a longtime, massive worldwide government conspiracy to kill innocent civilians and blame it on terrorists creates too many problems to list individually, but the sheer magnitude of people required to be privy to the secrets passes laughable territory.
- You lack even the tiniest shred of chemical or engineering evidence to suggest that there was a massive chemical reaction as described to take out the floors of the WTC.
- The effort required to preset such a chemical reaction is beyond the scope of anything you've considered and demands some sort of evidence. The time, money and personnel required for such an endeavor would have been overwhelming, the time issues and location runs contrary to any secret execution and (in my opinion) the costs outweighs the proposed gain.

Now, should you choose to post something of value I'll maintain this serious tone. Otherwise I may choose to continue mocking you or ignore you altogether.

[ConspiRaider]

I think Max and mjd must be related, for never have I seen so much pointless use of rarely used linguistics. I pity anyone who must engage in a person to person conversation with these people.

You see any of us here could use such words, but what is the point? Why use appapleptic (spelled wrong, see apoplectic) when furious or outrageous or extreme might do. Why use aggregiously (spelled wrong, see egregiously) when distinct, flagrant, or glaring will suffice.

TAM:)
You got that right, Doc. Good ole plain Midwestern talk does right by me.

I believe that if... oh shoot, I just sustained an accelerated concussive impact upon the parietal region of my cranial cavity!!! Got any acetylsalicylic acid tablets?

[T.A.M.]

Raider:

The Sequelae of your cranial impact seem to be entirely supratentorial. As a result, my suggested therapy regime consists of repose, in the form of as needed somnolence, as well as one to two doses of Ethanol based fluids, at your convenience...lol

TAM:)

[ConspiRaider]

Raider:

The Sequelae of your cranial impact seem to be entirely supratentorial. As a result, my suggested therapy regime consists of repose, in the form of as needed somnolence, as well as one to two doses of Ethanol based fluids, at your convenience...lol

TAM:)
That's exactly what I thought, Doc. What you're saying is: My ass is in a sling.

AND IT BE!

[rwguinn]

That's exactly what I thought, Doc. What you're saying is: My ass is in a sling.

AND IT BE!

I thought that was a hammock?

[MIKILLINI]

So Max, are you still reading these threads? In a response to your theory, let me ask you this question; Isn't there a ratio of Aluminum to Aluminum oxide that must be maintained to keep nano super thermites energetic?

[Civilized Worm]

Although a game of MorningTON Crescent could save it
Lists!



Central standard rules?

[ElMondoHummus]

I find what you say to be amusing. You've manged to combine every anti-USA conspiracy theory of the last decade into one huge mega-CT.

Hehe... the Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory! Physicists should be jealous! :D

[WildCat]

g9Fz4aRNtsc

[HeyLeroy]

---
(snip)
The second is a different topic. It is about thermite - or some incendiary - that was hand-placed in perimeter-panel box columns and spandrel splice gaps.

(snip)---

Hey, Max Photon, welcome to the forum.

I know you're taking the piss to a certain degree; put it down to TrutherOverload for many here who've grown weary from addressing the pet fantasies of folks who haven't, apparently, put the measure of mental horsepower toward these questions as you seemingly have.

Can you possibly answer a few simple questions? It appears that you can only speculate on the who (not able to name specific names and all), but you appear to have put much consideration into the what. My questions revolve around the where and when; if you're a believer in whatever various why postulations, we can save that 'til later.

Here are my questions:

When was all this therm?te placed, taking into consideration that 3/4 of the structural steel in the towers was around the outside (perimeter columns) of the towers, and 2/3 of the steel in those perimeter columns were only accessible from the outside faces of the towers; no one has ever come forward claiming to have seen anyone scaling the outsides of the towers (with or without any kind of cutting gear, much less any way to carry up the therm?te); and

Where was all this therm?te placed, taking into account that no chemical traces indicating pre-planted therm?te was found (this is taking into account the rational supposition that such catastrophic events such as the jetliner impacts and subsequent collapses couldn't possibly guarantee the complete consumption of every kilogram of pre-planted therm?te)?

Please indulge me in answering these questions and we may not even need to attempt to answer the weighty matter of how all this therm?te could possibly have been ignited in such a seamlessly choreographed manner sans wiring.

TTFN,
Leroy

(PS: If you feel you can adequately answer those, why not take a stab at the whole enchilada: http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=1233. Cheers.)

[Myriad]

To answer Myriad's question as to coating the thermite charge with linseed oil, this creates a non-reacting shell over the thermite The trick is to know how to apply it and how thick to let the coating get. I am not comfortable giving out too many details like that in a public place. There are MIHOPers who were probably best not trusted with too much accurate information watching what goes on here. (Do I need to name names?)


No, you don't need to name names and that's quite all right. That's why I didn't ask questions such as "how much plaster, exactly?" and "what size nozzle?" You seem to be sensible enough not to have answered if I had asked, but I still didn't want to take the chance.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[A W Smith]

---

Tirdun,

I have two threads.

The first is about the jets being used to create improvised thermite.

The second is a different topic. It is about thermite - or some incendiary - that was hand-placed in perimeter-panel box columns and spandrel splice gaps.


Those two threads are entirely different.

I separated them for clarity.


Why are you claiming they are identical?

Max

---
Do you think thermite comes in 90 pound sacks like lawn fertilizer where you can just pour it out, bolt up the plates and run? or is it like a stick deodorant where you just take off the cap and rub it onto the under arms of the spandrel plate "splice gaps"?? Make my mind up!


(edit) and whats going to prevent said thermite from burning through the bottom of the box column plates where it was placed and fall into the lower segment? or even burn through the 0.25 box column wall and fall out?

[leftysergeant]

Thermite could not be placed inside a column once the building was finished without extensive drilling and welding and then you have the problem of accidental ignition. Put it inside while the building was going up? Not the least bit likely. And, again, you run into the problem of ignition. How do you ignite it inside a sealed space?

Actually, I lost what little respect I had for Max when I saw the "MBA" in his supposed resume'. It isn't like MBA is a scholarly dgree. It isn't like it gives you a clue how a society should work. Look how well MBAs have managed the affairs of the USA over the last six years. The invasion of Iraq was tinkered by people with MBAs. Wasn't that brilliant!

Your eccentric use of the language is so MBA-ish. Make it mean what you need it to mean and it all works out well for everybody.

Riiiiight.

[Max Photon]

---

Max Photon's Warm-Up Challenge


Here is THE most important phrase in the NIST Reports.

-------------------------------------------------------

"...the NIST investigation showed conclusively
that the failure of the
inwardly-bowed perimeter columns
initiated collapse,

and that the occurrence of this inward bowing
required the sagging floors
to remain connected to the columns
and pull the columns inwards."

NIST - FAQ

[Line-breaks are mine, for clarity.]

---------------------------------------------

Allow me to simplified NIST's statement a bit:


The failure
of inwardly-bowed columns
initiated collapse.

This required
the sagging floors
to pull the columns inward.

---------------------------------------------

Here is Max Photon's Warm-up Challenge, to separate the wheat from the chaff.


1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.


I will summarize the meaniful responses later.

(This ought to be hilarious.)


Good luck!

Max

---

It is difficult to get someone to see something, when his paycheck depends on him not seeing it.

[WildCat]

Here is Max Photon's Warm-up Challenge, to separate the wheat from the chaff.


1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.
WildCat answers Max Photon's Warm-up Challenge

1. Heat from the fires weakened the floor trusses, causeing them to sag under the load.

2. The columns pulled inwards because the trusses, and thus the weight of the floors, was still attached to them.


I will summarize the meaniful responses later.

(This ought to be hilarious.)
I'm sure it will be, as has everything else you posted thus far.

WildCat

[einsteen]

http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/2vi16pg.jpg
http://www.gladdening.com/FlashFun/laughing_cat.jpghttp://www.gladdening.com/FlashFun/laughing_cat.jpghttp://www.gladdening.com/FlashFun/laughing_cat.jpg

[pomeroo]

Max Photon's Warm-Up Challenge


Here is THE most important phrase in the NIST Reports.

-------------------------------------------------------

"...the NIST investigation showed conclusively
that the failure of the
inwardly-bowed perimeter columns
initiated collapse,

and that the occurrence of this inward bowing
required the sagging floors
to remain connected to the columns
and pull the columns inwards."

NIST - FAQ

[Line-breaks are mine, for clarity.]

---------------------------------------------

Allow me to simplified NIST's statement a bit:


The failure
of inwardly-bowed columns
initiated collapse.

This required
the sagging floors
to pull the columns inward.

---------------------------------------------

Here is Max Photon's Warm-up Challenge, to separate the wheat from the chaff.


1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.


I will summarize the meaniful responses later.






Max ought to adopt a more humble tone. Max is not very bright and knows next to nothing about science. Max is addressing people who are much smarter than he is and who know vastly more.



(This ought to be hilarious.)


Good luck!

Max

---




Yes, Max, your bumptious ignorance is amusing, but your act is tired. Get new material or a life.



[quote=Max Photon;2776238]
It is difficult to get someone to see something, when his paycheck depends on him not seeing it.



So someone pays you to make a horse's ass of yourself? Most twoofers do it for free. You've got yourself a sweetheart deal.

[T.A.M.]

I think Max has a BA in Geophysics, and then went on to do MBA in Marketing..

TAM:)

[chipmunk stew]

Here is THE most important phrase in the NIST Reports.

-------------------------------------------------------

"...the NIST investigation showed conclusively
that the failure of the
inwardly-bowed perimeter columns
initiated collapse,

and that the occurrence of this inward bowing
required the sagging floors
to remain connected to the columns
and pull the columns inwards."

NIST - FAQ

[Line-breaks are mine, for clarity.]


1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.


Here is THE most important sentence fragment in the portion of the NIST FAQ that Max Photon quoted.

-------------------------------------------------------

"...the NIST investigation showed..."

---------------------------------------------

Max Photon can find the answers to [B]Max Photon's Warm-Up Challenge in the NIST Reports.

[MIKILLINI]

Hey Max. I asked My question first. Wildcat answered yours. Here's mine again;

Isn't there a ratio of Aluminum to Aluminum oxide that must be maintained to keep nano super thermites energetic?

ETA: Wildcat, he'll probably tell you that's not possible because thermite was used to "Heat-Weaken Column-Splice Bolts, So They Would Appear to Strip Naturally and Spontaneously". :rolleyes:

ETA 2: I find this part amusing; So They Would Appear to Strip Naturally and Spontaneously
If destroying column-splice bolts is the motive, then how, or why, would you go about making it look natural?

[Foolmewunz]

While it's a really fun merry-go-round ride, I keep looking for the "meat"?

Max, are you just an entertaining loon (and I'll grant you that), or do you actually have anything coherent that you're proposing?

I'm at a loss, frankly. The pre-planted rustate (rust & thermate) is absurd, of course. But you know that, don't you?

Like Leroy, I want to understand who, when, and where. (I'm not sure I agree that you've even clearly given us a "who", so I added that.) Now maybe I'm a little slow, so could you just list the two or three major elements in your theory, for us? 'Cuz the act is wearing thin, as others have pointed out. We've had our chuckles, now it's time to deliver something that makes sense.

:spjimlad: :spjimlad:

[HeyLeroy]

Max Photon:

MIKILLINI asked you a question, but after you answer that, I hope you that can be so kind as to answer the questions I posed to you in post #69 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2774016&postcount=69).

einsteen, is the cold-blooded murder of almost 3,000 innocent human beings really that much of a laughing matter to you?

[Max Photon]

---

...carry the two...solve for the eigenvalues...take the imaginary components...

GOT IT!

Well here is summary of the microspheres of intelligence so far (thanks Wildcat!):

----------------------------------

1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

Heat from the fires weakened the floor trusses, causing them to sag under the load.


2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.

The columns pulled inwards because the trusses, and the weight of the floors, were still attached to the columns.

----------------------------------

Now, does everyone want to sign off on the above two explanations?

Can I operate from the assumption here, and can I post these explanations elsewhere, that this is the official, sanctioned, a-okayed, skeptics-tested JREF explanation for what initiated the collapse of the WTC towers?


Or does anyone want to make any teeny-tiny adjustments?

(All of you who responded are welcome to modify your answers any time.)


Regards,

Max


P.S.

Apollo20, as this is such an important topic - what initiated the collapse of the WTC towers - I invite you to participate.

Your input would be extremely valuable.

---

[Max Photon]

---

Mikillini,

I didn't answer your question about nano-thermites because nano-thermites have nothing to do with my discussion.

Focus.

Max

---

[peteweaver]

Max you didn't address my points about the Daleks fella... lol

[Max Photon]

---

HeyLeroy asked:

Question 1.)

When was all this therm?te placed, taking into consideration that 3/4 of the structural steel in the towers was around the outside (perimeter columns) of the towers, and 2/3 of the steel in those perimeter columns were only accessible from the outside faces of the towers; no one has ever come forward claiming to have seen anyone scaling the outsides of the towers (with or without any kind of cutting gear, much less any way to carry up the therm?te)


Answer 1.)

Consider the following:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives
planted prior to September 11, 2001"

NIST NCSTAR1
--------------


Avid readers of the NCSTARS will immediately notice something peculiar.

Elsewhere NIST uses the phrase "explosives or supplementary catalysts"

(Thermite is generally not an explosive. It is a supplementary catalyst.)


Why does NIST not say:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives AND/OR SUPPLEMENTARY CATALYSTS
planted prior to September 11, 2001"

--------------


So we clearly see NIST playing ambiguation games around supplementary catalysts.



There is another glaring peculiarity:

Why did NIST not say "prior to or on September 11"?

It's only four extra letters.

Why are they leaving that glaring hole?



There is another peculiarity still:

...suggesting the towers were brought down by controlled demolition..."

Ah, good old fashioned NIST ambiguation to engineer plausible deniability.


MAX-MIHOP says that supplementary catalysts were used to clandestinely progressively heat-weaken the towers, to deliberately migrate the towers from global stability to global instability.

In other words, supplementary catalysts INITIATED the collapse of the towers.

The towers were BROUGHT DOWN by gravity (as per Bazant et. al.)

This was possible because the structure had been so thoroughly heat-weakened.



Summary: All of this is a classic example of NIST "hiding in plain view," which is a central theme - and a central investigation tool - in my research.


What NIST is actually saying is:

There were no explosives planted prior to 9/11.

But there were:
- Explosives planted ON 9/11
- Supplementary catalysts


I suspect the thermite was placed in perimeter panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other steel connectors, over a period of time.

I am not sure when.

The window is very large, if one sees the 1993 bombing as the standard controlled-demolition test blast.

However, I suspect the supplementary catalysts were placed quite close to 9/11.

Scott Forbes - who worked in WTC2 / 97th floor - says that shortly before 9/11, they would come to work in the morning, and there was fine dust everywhere, especially around the vents.

Perhaps that dust is related to the placing of powdered thermite.


----------------------------------------------------------------

Question 2.) Where was all this therm?te placed, taking into account that no chemical traces indicating pre-planted therm?te was found (this is taking into account the rational supposition that such catastrophic events such as the jetliner impacts and subsequent collapses couldn't possibly guarantee the complete consumption of every kilogram of pre-planted therm?te)?


Please re-read (carefully) the first post of this thread. Look at the photos.

Also, please go to my site (the link is in my signature) and see the post:

Photo of a Worker Reaching Into a Perimeter-Panel Box Column, Through the Bolt-Access-Hole

I'd normally would provide the link as a courtesy, but because of Tirdun's baseless accusations (read: whining) that I spam - and because of his reporting me to moderators - I am now not allowed to provide you with such simple conveniences.

Anyway, that post also has some answers for you.


HeyLeroy, the placing of thermite powder in perimeter panel box columns and spandrel splices would have been easy - they are very conveniently located, if one actually understands the structures.

(Judging by the posts I have seen so far, no one understands the structures.)


I appreciate your questions.

Regards,

Max

---

[Drudgewire]

---
There is another glaring peculiarity:

Why did NIST not say "prior to or on September 11"?

It's only four extra letters.

Why are they leaving that glaring hole?
---
Because the first tower was hit at 8:46 am, and none of the conspiracy theories about explosives/supplementary catalysts being used involve a scenario where they could have been snuck in, set up and detonated in less than 9 hours... because that would be beyond impossible?

[Max Photon]

---

Some have asked if I think 3000 innocent dead is a joke.

Actually, I think the number is closer to 1,000,000 but hey, who's counting - (certainly not you guys.)


No, I don't think nearly 1,000,000 dead is a joke.


Nor do I consider the following funny:

- Military-deception being used illegally to generate necessary illusions in order to manufacture consent for:

- The controlled-demolition of the US Constitution
- The erection of a police state.
- The illegal invasions of other nations.
- The looting of other nations.

I also don't think it's a joke that the perpetrators of 9/11 have nuclear weapons locked and loaded, and are going to pull American Hiroshima - a synthetic nuclear attack - relatively soon.

They have to - Max is closing in on them.


No good people, the only joke is most of you (not all of you - just most of those who have posted on my threads).

You claim to be skeptics.

What a laugh!

A real skeptic is skeptical about HIS position, first and foremost.

You guys are foreclosed, and then wrapped in groupthink.

The pressure to conform is frightening.

Is it not true that most of you take one research report at face value?

Where is the skepticism?

The other day on my run I realized, "Wait a minute. I am the one who is skeptical of the NIST reports. I'm the one that is not just bowing to credentials. I'm the one that is posting my ideas for all to see and criticize, and braving going in to hostile territory to do so.

You guys are pseudo-skeptics. (I think the technical term is mental couch potatoes.)

You are the jokes.


Respectfully,

Max

---

[DarkMagician]

---
<snip>
Nor do I consider the following funny:

- Military-deception being used illegally to generate necessary illusions in order to manufacture consent for:

- The controlled-demolition of the US Constitution
- The erection of a police state.

Some police state, not even trying to threaten you for posting on an internet forum.

- The illegal invasions of other nations.
- The looting of other nations.

Some looting. Still pay out the rear for gas.

I also don't think it's a joke that the perpetrators of 9/11 have nuclear weapons locked and loaded, and are going to pull American Hiroshima - a synthetic nuclear attack - relatively soon.

They have to - Max is closing in on them.

You, and all the others. You aren't special, just self-centered.

No good people, the only joke is most of you (not all of you - just most of those who have posted on my threads).

You claim to be skeptics.

What a laugh!

A real skeptic is skeptical about HIS position, first and foremost.

And of course, your "make it look like an accident, but it's not" is super-resistant to skepticism, despite some huuuuuuge flaws. Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

You guys are foreclosed,

What, you mean we're owned by the bank for not paying off a mortgage?

and then wrapped in groupthink.

So we can't come to these conclusions independently?

We are Borg. You will be assimilated.

The pressure to conform is frightening.

Yeah, conforming to reality is pressuring.

Is it not true that most of you take one research report at face value?

Where is the skepticism?

A good share of us have the expertise to know when some of these reports are complete and utter bullocks.

The other day on my run I realized, "Wait a minute. I am the one who is skeptical of the NIST reports. I'm the one that is not just bowing to credentials.

Yeah, crazy things: credentials, hah hah.

I'm the one that is posting my ideas for all to see and criticize, and braving going in to hostile territory to do so.

You guys are pseudo-skeptics. (I think the technical term is mental couch potatoes.)

You are the jokes.


Respectfully,

Max

---

You call us jokes, and then end on "Respectfully." It's like someone saying, "I don't mean to intrude," and then intruding.

[JimBenArm]

Where is the skepticism? It's out back, locked up in the shed. Can't let it roam around loose, or it gets into the neighbor's yard. Just finished paying off the lawsuit from the last time that happened.
Now, I know you said we were foreclosed, but that actually didn't happen. We took out a signature loan, and avoided the foreclosure. Sure, we're in debt up to our eyeballs, but hey, it's the American way!
Now, I agree 1 million dead isn't a joke, but what about 10 million? That can leave me giggling for hours! Of course, it has to be something like plankton, fungus or truthers. Can't really tell them apart, to be honest, they all are brainless, and smell bad.
As far as military deception, I'm all in favor of it myself. I like being able to sneak up on my enemy, grab them from behind and give them a thermo-nuclear wedgie. You should try it sometime, it's fun. Really! You should have seen the look on Osama's face last time I caught him. Hilarious!
Don't have time to respond to the rest of your post. It's just too silly to waste any more time on.

Love ya', babe!

JimBenArm

[pomeroo]

---

HeyLeroy asked:

Question 1.)

When was all this therm?te placed, taking into consideration that 3/4 of the structural steel in the towers was around the outside (perimeter columns) of the towers, and 2/3 of the steel in those perimeter columns were only accessible from the outside faces of the towers; no one has ever come forward claiming to have seen anyone scaling the outsides of the towers (with or without any kind of cutting gear, much less any way to carry up the therm?te)


Answer 1.)

Consider the following:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives
planted prior to September 11, 2001"

NIST NCSTAR1
--------------


Avid readers of the NCSTARS will immediately notice something peculiar.

Elsewhere NIST uses the phrase "explosives or supplementary catalysts"

(Thermite is generally not an explosive. It is a supplementary catalyst.)


Why does NIST not say:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives AND/OR SUPPLEMENTARY CATALYSTS
planted prior to September 11, 2001"

--------------


So we clearly see NIST playing ambiguation games around supplementary catalysts.



There is another glaring peculiarity:

Why did NIST not say "prior to or on September 11"?

It's only four extra letters.

Why are they leaving that glaring hole?



There is another peculiarity still:

...suggesting the towers were brought down by controlled demolition..."

Ah, good old fashioned NIST ambiguation to engineer plausible deniability.


MAX-MIHOP says that supplementary catalysts were used to clandestinely progressively heat-weaken the towers, to deliberately migrate the towers from global stability to global instability.

In other words, supplementary catalysts INITIATED the collapse of the towers.

The towers were BROUGHT DOWN by gravity (as per Bazant et. al.)

This was possible because the structure had been so thoroughly heat-weakened.



Summary: All of this is a classic example of NIST "hiding in plain view," which is a central theme - and a central investigation tool - in my research.


What NIST is actually saying is:

There were no explosives planted prior to 9/11.

But there were:
- Explosives planted ON 9/11
- Supplementary catalysts


I suspect the thermite was placed in perimeter panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other steel connectors, over a period of time.

I am not sure when.

The window is very large, if one sees the 1993 bombing as the standard controlled-demolition test blast.

However, I suspect the supplementary catalysts were placed quite close to 9/11.

Scott Forbes - who worked in WTC2 / 97th floor - says that shortly before 9/11, they would come to work in the morning, and there was fine dust everywhere, especially around the vents.

Perhaps that dust is related to the placing of powdered thermite.


----------------------------------------------------------------

Question 2.) Where was all this therm?te placed, taking into account that no chemical traces indicating pre-planted therm?te was found (this is taking into account the rational supposition that such catastrophic events such as the jetliner impacts and subsequent collapses couldn't possibly guarantee the complete consumption of every kilogram of pre-planted therm?te)?


Please re-read (carefully) the first post of this thread. Look at the photos.

Also, please go to my site (the link is in my signature) and see the post:

Photo of a Worker Reaching Into a Perimeter-Panel Box Column, Through the Bolt-Access-Hole

I'd normally would provide the link as a courtesy, but because of Tirdun's baseless accusations (read: whining) that I spam - and because of his reporting me to moderators - I am now not allowed to provide you with such simple conveniences.

Anyway, that post also has some answers for you.


HeyLeroy, the placing of thermite powder in perimeter panel box columns and spandrel splices would have been easy - they are very conveniently located, if one actually understands the structures.

(Judging by the posts I have seen so far, no one understands the structures.)


I appreciate your questions.

Regards,

Max

---




I have no questions for Max because Max has no answers. Max is silly and not very bright. Max uses many, many words to say nothing. Max needs to get a life.

[Belz...]

http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/2vi16pg.jpg
http://www.gladdening.com/FlashFun/laughing_cat.jpg

What the hell ?

[chipmunk stew]

Well here is summary of the microspheres of intelligence so far (thanks Wildcat!):

----------------------------------

1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

Heat from the fires weakened the floor trusses, causing them to sag under the load.


2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.

The columns pulled inwards because the trusses, and the weight of the floors, were still attached to the columns.

----------------------------------

Now, does everyone want to sign off on the above two explanations?

Can I operate from the assumption here, and can I post these explanations elsewhere, that this is the official, sanctioned, a-okayed, skeptics-tested JREF explanation for what initiated the collapse of the WTC towers?

Or does anyone want to make any teeny-tiny adjustments?
I'm going to speak on behalf of everyone else here (which I can do since we all agree on everything) and declare that Wildcat's post is an adequate layman's description of the catenary action of the weakened trusses as theorized by NIST.

[Tirdun]

Some have asked if I think 3000 innocent dead is a joke.

Actually, I think the number is closer to 1,000,000 but hey, who's counting - (certainly not you guys.)
We are counting those who died in the 11 September 2001 attacks.
And that number is 2974 (I don't count the hijackers)
See? We can count. You should work on that, you're off by quite a lot.
No, I don't think nearly 1,000,000 dead is a joke.
Certainly not, that number falls under one of these categories:
fallacy, invention, scare tactic, nonsense, sham, lie, hoax, deception, distortion, or fraud. Jokes are funny, like you.
Nor do I consider the following funny:
- Military-deception being used illegally to generate necessary illusions in order to manufacture consent for:
List of things deleted, since you've given us nothing but your overdramatic claims. Put up or shut up, Mister Paranoid Hyperbole
I also don't think it's a joke that the perpetrators of 9/11 have nuclear weapons locked and loaded
Well, those that weren't killed in the attacks.
and are going to pull American Hiroshima - a synthetic nuclear attack - relatively soon.
How does one synthesize a nuclear attack? Are we using synthetic fuel? A synthetic warhead? Are you suggesting that they're going to blow up a fake city or kill trillions of fake people? Maybe they'll use Rayon to build the fake bomb to hit the fake city with.
They have to - Max is closing in on them.
Wow! You're JUST like a cartoon character!

You are so important, so close to exposing this den of evildoers that they're turning up their timetable just to thwart your noble plans! Even now in their Lair of Eviltm sm c Darth Dastardly and his cadre of Meanies are fuming at your inability to be stopped! Forcing them to initiate plan X, or... tremble for a moment, PLAN Y. (oh god, not plan y)

YES PLAN "Y".

Oddly, your claim suggests that if you just shut up these baddies wouldn't attack us. But I'm sure that's not possible.
No good people, the only joke is most of you (not all of you - just most of those who have posted on my threads).
Yes, your thin veneer of facts are quite the joke and I admit that I wasted my life looking at them. Well played, Captain Vague Protonicus.
You claim to be skeptics
And, in skeptically exposing your BS, we've earned ourselves a skeptical cookie. Plus milk!
What a laugh!
Ha HA! We'll save the day! Those evil villains will pause mightily before attempting to do such evil on YOUR watch! WOOOOOSH!
A real skeptic is skeptical about HIS position, first and foremost.
So you're skeptical about your position?
I could be convinced otherwise on a number of positions, but you'll have to show up with more than your comedy routine and a threadbare cape around your neck, oh funny one.
You guys are foreclosed
The bank is closing in?
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I could be proven wrong though!
and then wrapped in groupthink.
Ah, so you've got a copy of Cliff's notes for 1984, eh?
Maybe you should read a few other books to understand the context of your borrowed word. Oh, it's a very nice word, but it requires a deft hand to wield and you fling it about like a dead fish.
The pressure to conform is frightening.
The pressure to think that you know something secret, that you're the only on IN on the whole grand scheme also generates a lot of pressure. Somehow Max is the only one who knows, the only one who has peered through the veils of lies and seen the secret truth below. And yet they mock you, they don't see the truths that you see. They don't understand the reality that you understand.

Reality, Max, is that which exists even if you don't believe in it.
Is it not true that most of you take one research report at face value?
Well, the reports plus the support and further research of major engineering, fire fighting and university studies. Plus the hundreds of rescue groups, first responders and investigators at each site. Plus the governments of the UK and two different governments of Spain during their separate investigations of the attacks on their soil. Lots of people who do hard science for a living. Lots of people with infinitely more credibility and knowledge than you.

Oddly enough, you claim the government is willing to kill one MILLION people in this evil plan but are not willing to lie in a technical report about their plot.

What an incredible stroke of luck that you've found their Achilles heel!
The other day on my run I realized, "Wait a minute. I am the one who is skeptical of the NIST reports. I'm the one that is not just bowing to credentials. I'm the one that is posting my ideas for all to see and criticize, and braving going in to hostile territory to do so.
Yes, you're the cartoon hero.
You guys are pseudo-skeptics. (I think the technical term is mental couch potatoes.)
Ah, the "pseudoskeptic" title. How predictable.
You are the jokes.

Congratulations on your impressive Swan Song, Max. It isn't that often that I see such a rambling screed with such massive delusions of grandeur.

Good luck fighting the bad guys! Hope the evil government doesn't catch wind of your crusade. Keep your cape clean and GOOD BYE!

[Corsair 115]

- The looting of other nations.What exactly does this looting consist of, that is, what property is being carried back to the U.S.? You're not going to say Iraqi oil, are you?

Because if you do, it may interest you to know that the U.S received 30% less oil from Iraq in 2006 than it did back in 2001. That's a strange sort of oil looting where the U.S. gets less now than it did before it ever invaded the country.

The #1 source for oil imported into the U.S. in 2006 was... Canada. The #2 source... Mexico. These two countries combined to supply one-third of all U.S. oil imports in 2006.

[MIKILLINI]

---

Mikillini,

I didn't answer your question about nano-thermites because nano-thermites have nothing to do with my discussion.

Focus.

Max

---

Since you are talking about thermite reactions, how about the next question. Since you have mentioned the bowing columns, what about aluminum chloride within the columns? As a natural reaction within the columns, what would aluminum chloride do to these columns, Max?

[Alferd_Packer]

Wait a minute. I am the one who is skeptical of the NIST reports. I'm the one that is not just bowing to credentials. I'm the one that is posting my ideas for all to see and criticize, and braving going in to hostile territory to do so.

uh, oh. He's on to us. Quick mobilze the black helicopters and white vans.

Start spraying chemtrails over Mr. Photon!!!

Activate the mind control system in his cell phone.

Squash him like a bug!

[Viper Daimao]

They have to - Max is closing in on them.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_17757469e855557b21.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7091)



Ooh, your powers of deduction are exceptional. I can't allow you to waste them here when there are so many crimes going unsolved at this very moment. Go, go, for the good of the city.

[The Almond]

---

[...]

Answer 1.)

Consider the following:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives
planted prior to September 11, 2001"

NIST NCSTAR1
--------------


Avid readers of the NCSTARS will immediately notice something peculiar.

Elsewhere NIST uses the phrase "explosives or supplementary catalysts"

(Thermite is generally not an explosive. It is a supplementary catalyst.)



Why does NIST not say:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives AND/OR SUPPLEMENTARY CATALYSTS
planted prior to September 11, 2001"

--------------


Ok, by your logic, I should also find something wrong with the idea that NIST fails to state:

[...]were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives, supplementary catalysts, space aliens, or the spirits of dead Hopi Indians.

You're finding fault in the fact that NIST failed to rule out every hair brained theory by the logic that they failed to state that they ruled out every hair brained theory. That's an argument based on lunacy.


So we clearly see NIST playing ambiguation games around supplementary catalysts.

There is another glaring peculiarity:

Why did NIST not say "prior to or on September 11"?

It's only four extra letters.

Why are they leaving that glaring hole?


Once again, by your logic, NIST did not also rule out time travel. Your argument based on the last two statements is trying to establish that ambiguity you and you alone perceive is evidence that it was placed in there purposefully. That, again, is lunacy.


There is another peculiarity still:

...suggesting the towers were brought down by controlled demolition..."

Ah, good old fashioned NIST ambiguation to engineer plausible deniability.

MAX-MIHOP says that supplementary catalysts were used to clandestinely progressively heat-weaken the towers, to deliberately migrate the towers from global stability to global instability.

In other words, supplementary catalysts INITIATED the collapse of the towers.

The towers were BROUGHT DOWN by gravity (as per Bazant et. al.)

This was possible because the structure had been so thoroughly heat-weakened.

Nonsense. To me, and to the laity, the concept of "brought down" implies all initiating circumstances. But then again, why is NIST responsible for your misinterpretation, and how does that prove that they're deliberately using amphibolous language?


Summary: All of this is a classic example of NIST "hiding in plain view," which is a central theme - and a central investigation tool - in my research.

Hiding in plane view is the argument of the paranoid.

What NIST is actually saying is:

Holy leap of logic Batman! By pointing out what NIST did not say, we can therefore conclude that the actual meaning of the words they did not say is:

There were no explosives planted prior to 9/11.

But there were:
- Explosives planted ON 9/11
- Supplementary catalysts


I noticed that you did not mention Hopi Indians. Instead of saying "Explosives planted on 9/11, not by Hopi Indians." And by your logic, I can deduce that your actual response was, "Explosives were planted on 9/11 by Apache Indians!" Hiding in plain sight indeed!

I suspect the thermite was placed in perimeter panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other steel connectors, over a period of time.

I am not sure when.

And yet you have provided no evidence to substantiate said claim. Your arguments above indicate that the explosives were planted on the day of the attack. There can be no ambiguity in the time frame, unless you don't believe the things you write.

The window is very large, if one sees the 1993 bombing as the standard controlled-demolition test blast.

Yes, driving a truck with explosives into an underground parking garage is exactly the same thing as a controlled demolition. That statement is nonsense.

[edited for brevity]
Anyway, that post also has some answers for you.


HeyLeroy, the placing of thermite powder in perimeter panel box columns and spandrel splices would have been easy - they are very conveniently located, if one actually understands the structures.

(Judging by the posts I have seen so far, no one understands the structures.)

Your conceit is well noted. Your conclusions are not illogical, it's just that no one understands you.

[Foolmewunz]

They have to - Max is closing in on them.
They have to - Max is closing in on them.
They have to - Max is closing in on them.

They have to - Max is closing in on them.
They have to - Max is closing in on them.
They have to - Max is closing in on them.

(I just love that line. Can't win Teh Stundie, but it's just so lovely I wanted to repeat it six times, here. This really goes into Great Moments in Troofing!)

ETA: Six won't do! Here's another...

They have to - Max is closing in on them.

[MIKILLINI]

Why does NIST not say:

"NIST found no corroborating evidence
for the alternative hypothesis
suggesting the towers
were brought down by controlled demolition
using explosives AND/OR SUPPLEMENTARY CATALYSTS
planted prior to September 11, 2001"


This is your question, Maxwell Smartguy, and by using wordplay, you are making a house of cards out of invisible toothpicks.

Well here is summary of the microspheres of intelligence so far from Max.

[Reality Believer]

OK, now this song is stuck in my head for some reason, thanks!

http://uploads.ungrounded.net/239000/239712_the_Maxwell_Edison_Story.s.swf

Joan was quizzical, studied paraphysical
Science in the home
Late nights all alone with a test-tube
Ohh-oh-oh-oh...
Maxwell Edison majoring in medicine
Calls her on the phone
"Can I take you out to the pictures
Joa-oa-oa-oan?"
But as she's getting ready to go
A knock comes on the door...

Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer
Came down upon her head
Clang, clang, Maxwell's silver hammer
Made sure that she was dead. :(

[Max Photon]

---

Greetings Thought-Stoppers,


You'll love this!


The planted thermite in perimeter-panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other connectors, was linked together and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited (or initiated) remotely, using lasers, probably from a tall building north of the WTC towers, such as the Woolworth building.


Max Photon.

Lasers.


It's as if it were meant to be - the Music of the MicroSpheres!


Cheers!

911-God

---

[Par]

Someone who suffers from Narcissistic Personality disorder (NPD) has at least 5 of the following characteristics:


Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Requires excessive admiration
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


http://www.narcissism101.com/

[dirtywick]

To answer Myriad's question as to coating the thermite charge with linseed oil, this creates a non-reacting shell over the thermite The trick is to know how to apply it and how thick to let the coating get. I am not comfortable giving out too many details like that in a public place. There are MIHOPers who were probably best not trusted with too much accurate information watching what goes on here. (Do I need to name names?)

Just hanging around with soldiers from a wide variety of MOSs gave me a chance to observe and learn about things that even give me the heebie-jeebies. The trick is to learn to look for minor details. Out of curiousity, I visited Max Photon's site and had a look at a picture of one burning floor in the WTC. He pointed out what he purported to be a thermite fire right in the corner of the building. Interesting that the flames of an incendiary charge that burns metals in a shower of sparks should have square edges and the same light value as aluminum cladding surrounding it on the sun-lit portions of the walls.

I have a quick question, since you seem to know a bit more about thermite than I do and finding any actual information on thermite is difficult because the search engines are clogged with Alex Jones references.

Is it even possible to get thermite to burn at a low enough temperature not to melt steel? I didn't really read this guy's site because, well you know. But it seems the entire thing hinges on it being used not to melt the steel, but to weaken it. To my knowledge, using thermite in that way isn't possible. It's like using dynamite to blow the leaves off of your driveway.

Like I said, just curious. Thanks.

[HyJinX]

---

Greetings Thought-Stoppers,


You'll love this!


The planted thermite in perimeter-panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other connectors, was linked together and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited (or initiated) remotely, using lasers, probably from a tall building north of the WTC towers, such as the Woolworth building.


Max Photon.

Lasers.


It's as if it were meant to be - the Music of the MicroSpheres!


Cheers!

911-God

---

Or maybe, juuuust maybe, they used this instead...

[sackett]

I'm hungry. Can I have Max for dinner?

Given your handle, that's not funny.





Yes it is.

[MIKILLINI]

---

Greetings Thought-Stoppers,


You'll love this!


The planted thermite in perimeter-panel box columns, spandrel splice gaps, and other connectors, was linked together and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited (or initiated) remotely, using lasers, probably from a tall building north of the WTC towers, such as the Woolworth building.




Max Photon.

Lasers.


It's as if it were meant to be - the Music of the MicroSpheres!


Cheers!

911-God

---

Max, where ya been? Did you go ask Phineas J. Whoopee for more answers? Did Phineas pull out his Three-Dimensional Blackboard to show you more information to use for your conspiracy?

Apparently he supplied you with an idea of how to detonate devices, remotely. However remote that possibility seems.

Have you gotten around to figuring how it would've been known where to place these devices?

[Max Photon]

---

Greetings LOSTians,

MAX-MIHOP says thermite was planted at WTC steel connections - not to cut, melt, or slice steel (sorry, Jones old chap) - but to heat-weaken the steel, so the towers would collapse in a manner consisent with the NIST reports (except of course for all NIST anomalies MAX-MIHOP can easily explain).

The thermite was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

No intermediate mechanism - such as non-electric detonators - was required; thermite-dusted shock-tube lit the planted thermite directly! (Sweet.)

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited remotely by lasers from WTC7.


NIST Figure 6-4 (NCSTAR 1-3) shows the thermite-dusted shock-tube.

See the September 05 note in the following post:

http://maxphoton.com/2007/07/01/max-mihop-video-analysis-of-shock-tube-in-the-WTC-towers.aspx


This is a perfect example of hiding the evidence in plain view, to engineer plausible deniability.


As I keep saying, you guys are going to look really stupid when the fog lifts.


Max

---

[TellyKNeasuss]

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited remotely by lasers from WTC7.

TellyKNeasuss wonders why the NWO didn't just use the lasers to pre-heat the steel so that the NWO could avoid having to plant all the thermite.

[twinstead]

TellyKNeasuss wonders why the NWO didn't just use the lasers to pre-heat the steel so that the NWO could avoid having to plant all the thermite.

Oh, and take all the overtime away from the NWO thermite planting crew? What, are you anti union or something? That's Un-American!!

[DarkMagician]

The thermite was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

No intermediate mechanism - such as non-electric detonators - was required; thermite-dusted shock-tube lit the planted thermite directly! (Sweet.)

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited remotely by lasers from WTC7.


Wait a second. Arent the shock-tube and lasers both "intermediate mechanisms"?

I mean, shouldn't you at least aim for consistency, let alone reality?

[JimBenArm]

Wait a second. Arent the shock-tube and lasers both "intermediate mechanisms"?

I mean, shouldn't you at least aim for consistency, let alone reality?
Yes, he should. Will he? Let's check my Magic 8 Ball;

"All signs point to no".

Well, there you have it. Indisputable evidence! At least by his standards!

[TellyKNeasuss]

Oh, and take all the overtime away from the NWO thermite planting crew? What, are you anti union or something? That's Un-American!!

As a US taxpayer, I expect the US government to spend the taxpayers' money efficiently when murdering US citizens.

[maccy]

As I keep saying, you guys are going to look really stupid when the fog lifts.

I don't care about evidence proving me wrong, or if it makes me feel stupid. I have no emotional attachment to any theory, I only care about the facts.

Care to point to any? Or is bad rhetoric more your style?

[Max Photon]

---

Below is a link to a recent post of mine describing the metal fire and metal flows in WTC2's NE corner.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2944282#post2944282

---

[TellyKNeasuss]

---

Below is a link to a recent post of mine describing the metal fire and metal flows in WTC2's NE corner.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2944282#post2944282

---

TellyKNeasuss wants to know whether Max Photon is going to present any "evidence" other than links to Max Photon's own posts.

[MIKILLINI]

---

Greetings LOSTians,

MAX-MIHOP says thermite was planted at WTC steel connections - not to cut, melt, or slice steel (sorry, Jones old chap) - but to heat-weaken the steel, so the towers would collapse in a manner consisent with the NIST reports (except of course for all NIST anomalies MAX-MIHOP can easily explain).

The thermite was linked and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube.

No intermediate mechanism - such as non-electric detonators - was required; thermite-dusted shock-tube lit the planted thermite directly! (Sweet.)

The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited remotely by lasers from WTC7.


NIST Figure 6-4 (NCSTAR 1-3) shows the thermite-dusted shock-tube.

See the September 05 note in the following post:

http://maxphoton.com/2007/07/01/max-mihop-video-analysis-of-shock-tube-in-the-WTC-towers.aspx


This is a perfect example of hiding the evidence in plain view, to engineer plausible deniability.


As I keep saying, you guys are going to look really stupid when the fog lifts.


Max

---

Hey Max, show us the laser theory and remote-controlled planes and I'll show you an accomplice who forgot to put new batteries in those devices.

[pomeroo]

---

Below is a link to a recent post of mine describing the metal fire and metal flows in WTC2's NE corner.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2944282#post2944282

---


Gee, Max, your puerile fantasies would be so much easier to sustain if only those damned jihadists would stop bragging about their victory.

Reality is a bitch, ain't it?

[Loss Leader]

Whenever people discuss thermite, they inevitably reveal that they have been indellibly branded by military deception, or MILDEC.


The abbreviation for military deception is MILDEC? I've been using PENTALIE. I feel like an idiot!

[Good Lt]

Reality is a bitch, ain't it?

Whose reality, NWO pawn? ;)

[MIKILLINI]

The abbreviation for military deception is MILDEC? I've been using PENTALIE. I feel like an idiot!

:dl:

[Max Photon]

---

I have an updated post at my site that contains relevant photos of the column splice pattern as seen at the WTC2/81/NE corner.

I am sure you will find the photos helpful.

Here is the link to the updated post.

http://maxphoton.com/2007/06/19/Max-Photon-Solves-the-Mystery-of-NIST-Figure-9-45.aspx

Cheers!

Max


ETA: The new photos are in the September 8th Update.

---

[chillzero]

Please re-read the revised MA for this section. Attack the argument, not the arguer, and also remain civil and polite.

[OldSchool]

Why would you need thermite to heat-weaken the steel, if the fires were going to do that already?

Furthermore, why would steel need to be heat-weakened for you to bomb it?

Simply because the fire itself wouldn't have been hot enough to weaken the steel. If not thermite what else caused fire treated steel to weaken. Whether the theory of thermite can be proven or not doesn't really matter, considering the government/NIST hasn't been proven either. The largest myth found on this forum is, some how the fire burnt hot enough to weaken the steel enough to cause collapse. Without another variable to increase the temperature of the fire, collapse due to fire isn't a provable theory. From UL to former NIST Fire Chief James Quintiere the NIST report has already been discredited. The report has been discredited in many ways by acedemic standards. Altering control variables, One dimensional hypothesis, to government lawyers impeding NIST from gathering all information vital to there research are a few of the known acedemic flaws. Methods for conducting an experiment are enough to discredit an experiment from an acedemic standpoint.

The thermite theory will never have a chance to be proven. Former Mayor Ruldolph Juliani had all possible evidence destroyed soon after 911. This theory such as any, including NIST, isn't provable because of lack of crime scene evidence.

[DGM]

From UL to former NIST Fire Chief James Quintiere the NIST report has already been discredited.

UL ?
James Quiniere supports the conclusion. You should actually read the whole story.

[twinstead]

Yup UL and Quintiere totally discredit the NIST report. :eye-poppi

Well, that about does it. We're done. Will the last person leaving please turn out the lights?

[OldSchool]

UL ?
James Quiniere supports the conclusion. You should actually read the whole story.

Altering control variables, One dimensional hypothesis, to government lawyers impeding NIST from gathering all information vital to there research are a few of the known acedemic flaws.


James Quintiere did reveal the lawyers impeding the investigation. Quintiere did note the one dimensionality of the NIST report. If Quintiere knowingly took part in altering variables to reach his conclusions, whatever they may be, he also is guilty of taking part in experimental fraud.

[OldSchool]

Yup UL and Quintiere totally discredit the NIST report. :eye-poppi

Well, that about does it. We're done. Will the last person leaving please turn out the lights?

The report has been discredited in many ways by acedemic standards. Altering control variables, One dimensional hypothesis, to government lawyers impeding NIST from gathering all information vital to there research are a few of the known acedemic flaws. Methods for conducting an experiment are enough to discredit an experiment from an acedemic standpoint.

[DGM]

Altering control variables, One dimensional hypothesis, to government lawyers impeding NIST from gathering all information vital to there research are a few of the known acedemic flaws.


James Quintiere did reveal the lawyers impeding the investigation. Quintiere did note the one dimensionality of the NIST report. If Quintiere knowingly took part in altering variables to reach his conclusions, whatever they may be, he also is guilty of taking part in experimental fraud.
Does he or does he not agree with the conclusion? That's what I asked (fires/damage caused collapse).
PS, He was only an adviser, not actively involved.

How about UL, What's their problem?

[Par]

As I understand it, Dr. Quintiere believes the fuel loads and fires to have been underestimated and the fireproofing to have been overestimated. If his criticisms are taken seriously, then global collapse due to aircraft impact damage and subsequent fires turns out to be even more likely than it was before.

[DGM]

As I understand it, Dr. Quintiere believes the fuel loads and fires to have been underestimated and the fireproofing to have been overestimated. If his criticisms are taken seriously, then global collapse due to aircraft impact damage and subsequent fires turns out to be even more likely than it was before.
I believe you are correct. I don't understand why the "truthers" jump on this band wagon. He clearly does not support their claims.

[hellaeon]

Ok, not funny now, who is the one who wrote the max photon bot script?

[TellyKNeasuss]

Altering control variables, One dimensional hypothesis

Please explain.

[Max Photon]

---

Hi guys,

Glad to see at least a little Old School thinking going on.


LeftySergeant,

I'd love to know what you think about my insight that demolition planners used thermite-dusted shock-tube (to ignite the thermite planted in perimeter box columns, spandrel splice gaps, truss and gusset seats, and various core connections).

Thanks

Max


P.S.

By the way, why is there an endless parade of imbeciles who keep going out of their way to demonstrate that they have no idea what a spandrel splice gap is? Is there a hatchery around here or something? (This is not aimed at you, Lefty.)


Where two spandrels came together, a gap was left - the spandrels did not touch.

Spandrel splice plates then sandwiched the two spandrels together.

This creates - in effect - a hollow tube - a enclosed spandrel splice gap (perfect for simply pouring thermite into) - that was easily accessed because the spandrels rose 13.5" above the floor.

Furthermore, the splice plates were not as long was the spandrels were wide (in the vertical dimension).

This made the spandrel splice gap even easier to access.


So stop babbling that there were no spandrel splice gaps.

You look dumb enough as NISTians already.

---

[Max Photon]

---

Please see "Attachments" for photos of:


1.) NIST Figure 6-4 showing thermite-dusted shock-tube found on recovered steel member N-8 (NCSTAR 1-3C chapters).

(Note that this was one of only five specimens found by NIST to have been exposed to high heat.)


2.) A representation of the perimeter column bolt-access-hole that was the source of the WTC2 metal fire.

(This photo is also an accurate representation of the 8 column splices in a row at WTC2/81/NE, the location of the Magic Fire.)


Enjoy!

Max

---

[peteweaver]

Max, thats not thermite.

And the stuff used to heat weaken the steel was the burning office fires started by burning fuel.

[JimBenArm]

I'd love to know what you think about my insight that demolition planners used thermite-dusted shock-tube (to ignite the thermite planted in perimeter box columns, spandrel splice gaps, truss and gusset seats, and various core connections).

I'm not LeftySergeant, but I'll let you know what I think. I think your insight is very entertaining. Not based on reality, totally goes against known prinicples, unworkable, totally devoid of evidence to support it, and nothing more than a paranoid fantasy. But, still, quite funny, so it's entertaining.

Thanks for the laughs! Makes my mornings go so much better!

[chipmunk stew]

These thermite-dusted shock-tubes--were they on 4' centers by any chance?

[Max Photon]

---

Mr Stew,

I don't really understand the question.

Could you please elaborate?

Max

---

ETA: Never mind...I get it.

---

[Bell]

---

Mr Stew,

I don't really understand the question.

Could you please elaborate?

Max

---

ETA: Never mind...I get it.

---

Bell is glad you got it. Because the JREF really didn't want to go that path again.

[leftysergeant]

That area was torn open. Thermite there would have produced remarkable brilliant light. This was not observed. Nothing there. Sorry.

The residue on that sample is not thermite residue. Looks more like the result of a colision, whether the initial crash or the collapse, between steel and aluminum objects. The identation in the steel looks more like a gouge than melting.

[Drudgewire]

Methods for conducting an experiment are enough to discredit an experiment from an acedemic standpoint.

In the last 24 hours I've seen the twoofers deliver:

1. "You are ignorant" immediately followed by two grammatical errors within the same sentence. (Source (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=93203))

2. "More info from the Department of Intelligence comming soon." (Source (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=93174))

3. A statement on what makes the scientific method hold up from an academic standpoint with "academic" misspelled (granted this is old but I'm just seeing the updated thread).

Holy moly, is it Ironic Retard Thursday in the twoof movement today? :p

[CptColumbo]

I shall mark in my calender that the second Thursday of September is IRT.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Here is Max Photon's Warm-up Challenge, to separate the wheat from the chaff.

ok, I'll bite.


1.) Explain the mechanism that caused the floors to sag.

Fire.

2.) Explain why sagging floors pulled columns inward.

They were attached to the columns.

Where do I pick up my prize?

[pomeroo]

---

Mr Stew,

I don't really understand the question.

Could you please elaborate?

Max

---

ETA: Never mind...I get it.

---


Why do you keep babbling about thermite? Surely there are many other subjects that you also know nothing about.

[MIKILLINI]

Why do you keep babbling about thermite? Surely there are many other subjects that you also know nothing about.

That appears to be the MO of Max. But Max still hasn't answered the question of how it would be known where to place these devices, since each aircraft struck at different locations of each respective tower. Yes, he has claimed these airliners were computer-guided and the shock tubes were remotely detonated with lasers, so where's the provable evidence of these claims?
So, Max, attack My argument with convincing evidence of these claims.
Or will you just remain as a SPEC...(S)trongly (P)ursuing (E)rroneous (C)laims.
Simply put, it's SPECulation.

[MIKILLINI]

Ok, not funny now, who is the one who wrote the max photon bot script?

http://arbyte.us/blog_archive/2005/11/drevil_million_dollars.jpg

This guy here..or

http://obits.eons.com/obits/tributes/don_adams/1787-1-photo.jpg

This guy.

[Reality Believer]

.... SPEC...(S)trongly (P)ursuing (E)rroneous (C)laims. Simply put, it's SPECulation.

Oh no! The only SPEC organization is: "SPECTRE (SPecial Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion)"


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e4/ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg/200px-ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg

[pomeroo]

ok, I'll bite.




Fire.



They were attached to the columns.

Where do I pick up my prize?


How scary is it that Max really does not know these answers?

[Max Photon]

That area was torn open. Thermite there would have produced remarkable brilliant light. This was not observed. Nothing there. Sorry.


Hi LeftySergeant,

Thanks for responding to my PM. (I PM'ed Sarge, and asked if he could comment on my concept of thermite-dusted shock-tube.)

Please see attached photos (NIST Fig. 9-45) showing what NIST describes as a 10-minute metal fire (NCSTAR 1-5A/9/C).

Note that NIST says it is unable to explain the source of this metal fire, which is at least 1100 C.

NIST says the bright light was visible from many locations, and at distance - testimony to the intensity.


Lefty, you can only push my model aside, if you replace it with a better one.

Please explain what the metal fire IS.



The residue on that sample is not thermite residue. Looks more like the result of a colision, whether the initial crash or the collapse, between steel and aluminum objects. The identation in the steel looks more like a gouge than melting.


I did not say that NIST Fig. 6-4 shows thermite residue.

Plus, your answer reveals you have not read NCSTAR 1-3C.

I suggest you read 1-3C before getting too carried away.



LeftySergeant, I asked you what you thought of the concept of thermite-dusted shock-tube.

I sense you don't even understand the question.

Is that correct? Is so, please just say so, and I will rephrase the question.

Thanks for participating. I do appreciate your expertise.

Max


P.S. Mikillini, your questions are poorly framed, and hence too stupid to answer. I'll get serious if you get serious.

---

[Digest]

max-

can you please point out where you are in these pictures?

Oh.. you werent there? you didnt collect samples? so everything you say is just conjecture without substance?

just fyi on the caption of the picture you posted it says "intensity levels have been adjusted" therefore you have no reference as to what color the GLOWING MELTING metal really was do you? (oops)

my bad - back to your infomercial.

[timhau]

Oh no! The only SPEC organization is: "SPECTRE (SPecial Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion)"


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e4/ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg/200px-ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg

So, there's the criminal mastermind behind it all, but who's the guy with the monocle?

[Max Photon]

---

Hey guys,

I have a funny story to tell you.

It seems that just today, the people at the Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice (STJ911) - temple of THERMITE=CUTTING - entertained, for the very first time, that maybe - just maybe - thermite had been used to heat-weaken steel, rather than cut, melt or slice it.

Let that in.

Max Photon is the thermite salesman to the thermite salesmen.

And believe me, they have been a tough sell.

STJ911 hates Max Photon more than they hate JREF (because you guys aren't civil).

THERMITE=HEAT-WEAKENING is not welcomed AT ALL.


Someone told me the moderator who threw me out implied I am bi-polar.

I can assure you I am neither bi-polar, nor tri-polar.

I am i-polar. Y? Don't X. It's complex. C?

(I take magnetic monopoles as necessary.)


Anyway, now the powers at STJ are in a wee bit of a pickle.

They threw me out, wouldn't let me recover my work, covered it all up, delayed my paper, etc., etc., and now they are realizing that - get this - maybe incendiaries were used to heat something.


Anyway, most of you probably can't see the comedy of the situation, but I can assure you, I think it's pretty funny.


Cheers!

Max


P.S. Wait until the scales fall of your eyes.

---

[dirtywick]

Max, shock tubes are made of plastic.

[Digest]

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9898/moe1139060700vc7is9.jpg

[Max Photon]

Max, shock tubes are made of plastic.


And...


---

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Hello Max Photon
Sword of Truth here

Were you going to address my explanation? Or is it too technical for someone who is just a cartoonist?

[contra]

So they used an untested technique in a large scale to do something that would have been easier and less obvious to with other materials.

Thermite is such an unstable chemical, and could easily have gone off early. I especially wouldn't want to put it near a fire, like the ones in your picture there. It would go off instantly; and not at hte exact right time to bring down the building in a timed progressive way.

The easier way to bring them down, would be to use conventional explosives, but shaped charges that damage directionally (inwards towatds the core and beams you are looking to take out). You cannot hide the sound though, but set something to collapse a few secs before everything goes off, causes a rumbling... most would never question the explosions that heard by all.

Silly rabbits...

[MIKILLINI]

P.S. Mikillini, your questions are poorly framed, and hence too stupid to answer. I'll get serious if you get serious.

---

United Airlines 175 struck the south tower, American Airlines 11 struck the North tower Max. The area of the south tower that UAL 175 struck was not the same area of the north tower AA 11 struck.

Heres your problem Max;2 different airline companies, 2 towers, thermite, shock tubing, computer guidance systems, Laser activated detonators.

Question 1.) How are these airliners "computer-guided"? On-board? or-off board? And it's not just one airline company, it's 2 companies.

Question 2.) How would it be known which floors to place the shock tubes in each tower? This had to all come together...Each specific airliner guided to each specific tower to strike in the area where shock tubes are placed.

Quite an elaborate scenario...Now do you understand the questions, Max? Or will you continue to dodge?

[dirtywick]

And...


---

You really don't understand the problems inherent with a little plastic tube filled with PETN sitting in a fire for seven hours.

[MIKILLINI]

So, there's the criminal mastermind behind it all, but who's the guy with the monocle?

Ernst Stavro Blofeld (portrayed by Donald Pleasence) is 2nd in command within the SPECTRE organization, but that's not a monocle he's wearing. It's a scar.

[MIKILLINI]

You really don't understand the problems inherent with a little plastic tube filled with PETN sitting in a fire for seven hours.

Are you referring WTC 7? Just askin. Max is referring to WTC 2, where no fires burned for 7 hours prior to that buildings collapse.

Max is attempting to prove thermite was used to heat-weaken the steel, causing the collapse initiation of the twin towers. Max believes these thermite-dusted shock tubes were detonated by remote lasers.

But Max needs to address some issues that had to be arranged prior to the towers collapse; Flight 175 struck the south tower at the 78th floor, flight 11 struck the north tower between floors 94-98. Max believes these planes were computer-guided to their targets.
Many people had to be involved with these prior arrangements, and Max, so far, is avoiding to explain this scenario. he would like you to ignore that part of it and just stick to the heat weakening scenario.

[Max Photon]

* * *

Here is rough MAX-MIHOP summary for WTC2 that I posted on a different thread.

I include the link here as a convenience.

Max Photon tells the story of WTC2
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...63#post2991363


Cheers!

Max


* * *

[MIKILLINI]

Still continuing to elude answering my questions, Max? I'm not surprised. It's also no surprise you are still trying to push your F.A.C.T.'s . Except your facts are a (F)requently (A)ttempted (C)onspiracy (T)heory.

[Max Photon]

Still continuing to elude answering my questions, Max? I'm not surprised. It's also no surprise you are still trying to push your F.A.C.T.'s . Except your facts are a (F)requently (A)ttempted (C)onspiracy (T)heory.



Okay Chief Whiner, take a stand.


Draw up your list of questions.

Number them.

Please do you absolute best - show this forum what you're made of.


I will answer your legitimate questions or address your serious objections to the best of my ability.


But if you are simply lost, remember, Max Photon does not babysit.


Now off to bed.


Max


* * *

[Big Les]

Why do you refer to yourself in the third person, Max? I can't help but think of Duff Man when I read your posts.

[pomeroo]

Okay Chief Whiner, take a stand.


Draw up your list of questions.

Number them.

Please do you absolute best - show this forum what you're made of.


I will answer your legitimate questions or address your serious objections to the best of my ability.


But if you are simply lost, remember, Max Photon does not babysit.


Now off to bed.


Max


* * *



Here's my question, Max:

Why do you always forget to mention that no thermite or thermate was used at the WTC complex on the day of the jihadist attacks?

[Max Photon]

Here's my question, Max:

Why do you always forget to mention that no thermite or thermate was used at the WTC complex on the day of the jihadist attacks?



Gentle readers,


Never forget:

Pomeroo's output has zero value.

He hasn't even read the NIST reports.

Like most here, his arguments ride on the coat tails of the few big fish (in this very small pond).


Pomeroo, I challenge you to put forth a coherent list of questions and objections - numbered - and then stand and hold your ground (while I shove them right back up your brain-stem).

In fact, why not work with Mikillini? He looks like he needs help.


Prediction:

Mikillini will experience visco-elastic creep, yield, and fail.


Prediction:

Pomeroo won't even get that far.


Max


* * *

[Concept]

:popcorn2

[pomeroo]

Hey guys-check it out! Max is a know-nothing poseur!

Gentle readers,


Never forget:

Pomeroo's output has zero value.



You may be the most pretentious, vacuous charlatan on this forum, but you do have a well-honed sense of irony.




He hasn't even read the NIST reports.

Like most here, his arguments ride on the coat tails of the few big fish (in this very small pond).


Pomeroo, I challenge you to put forth a coherent list of questions and objections - numbered - and then stand and hold your ground (while I shove them right back up your brain-stem).

In fact, why not work with Mikillini? He looks like he needs help.



My argument is simple, as is the person with whom I'm arguing. I claim that you are a muddleheaded poseur who doesn't have the slightest idea of what he's talking about. You've demonstrated no comprehension whatever of the NIST Report (I doubt that you've done much more than glance at the FAQ and skim NCSTAR 1 to remove a few lines out of context). You have offered nothing but preposterous claptrap, pure hokum fabricated out of whole cloth.

There are real scientists posting on this forum, people I learn from. You ain't one of them.

Here are my questions, the ones you've been dodging for weeks:

Nobody who works in the demolition industry takes seriously the myth promoted by conspiracy liars that explosives were used to bring down the Twin Towers. What do you know that they don't? How do you know it?

The seismic data compiled by the Lamont-Doherty labs show no secondary explosions. Are the real scientists who work there part of your imaginary conspiracy, too?

Demolition specialists say that thermite isn't used the way you pretend it is. Are they lying? What is the basis of your disagreement with people who know so much more than you do? How do you know what you claim to know?



Prediction:

Mikillini will experience visco-elastic creep, yield, and fail.


Prediction:

Pomeroo won't even get that far.


Max


* * *



Prediction:

Max has promised to shove, but will continue to shovel.

[Max Photon]

Here are my questions, the ones you've been dodging for weeks:


Wrong. I answer the questions, and you don't understand the answers.




Nobody who works in the demolition industry takes seriously the myth promoted by conspiracy liars that explosives were used to bring down the Twin Towers. What do you know that they don't? How do you know it?


What a retarded hodgepodge.

MAX-MIHOP explicitly states that NO EXPLOSIVES were used.



The seismic data compiled by the Lamont-Doherty labs show no secondary explosions. Are the real scientists who work there part of your imaginary conspiracy, too?


More retarded hodgepodge.

There were no primary or secondary explosives, so there was nothing for the seismometers to pick up.



Demolition specialists say that thermite isn't used the way you pretend it is. Are they lying? What is the basis of your disagreement with people who know so much more than you do? How do you know what you claim to know?



Again, Pomeroo, you are totally, completely, hopelessly lost.

There are some - like Jones - how claim thermite was used to cut/melt/slice WTC steel.

This would have to occur at 1540C


MAX-MIHOP says thermite was not used to cut/melt/slice WTC steel, but rather, to heat-weaken the steel by heating it to 600C-1100C.


ALL of your "demolition experts" have discussed ONLY the THERMITE=CUTTING model.

NONE - ZERO - ZILCH - NADA have discussed the use of thermite to heat-weaken the towers.

Nor have they discussed using thermite to create spectacular phreato-thermatic explosions.

Nor have they discussed using thermite to dust shock-tube.

Or using thermite to create highly visible fires.

Or using thermite to create the illusion of fires burning on piles of debris.

Or using thermite to create:


hot spots and cold spots
differential heating
buckling
the illusion of migrating fires
sagging floors
visco-elastic creep in columns
columns to bow inward and fail (thereby initiating the collapse of the towers)
emotionally-potent over-simplifications about "molten steel"
and on and on....



I know what I claim to know because I think for myself

unlike the "experts"

and you.


I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

This time, try and attend to the topic.


Max

[technoextreme]

NONE - ZERO - ZILCH - NADA have discussed the use of thermite to heat-weaken the towers.

Because jet fuel would have the same effect.:) Becauase an office fire actually resulted in so much damage the building was condemened.:) Because a petroluem fire caused a bridge to sag. How the hell is it an irrational step for an office/petroluem fire to cause a building to collapse when it's happened before?

[twinstead]

'retarded hodgepodge' appears to be code for 'stuff I have no answer for'.

Excellent.

[pomeroo]

Wrong. I answer the questions, and you don't understand the answers.





What a retarded hodgepodge.

MAX-MIHOP explicitly states that NO EXPLOSIVES were used.





More retarded hodgepodge.

There were no primary or secondary explosives, so there was nothing for the seismometers to pick up.





Again, Pomeroo, you are totally, completely, hopelessly lost.

There are some - like Jones - how claim thermite was used to cut/melt/slice WTC steel.

This would have to occur at 1540C


MAX-MIHOP says thermite was not used to cut/melt/slice WTC steel, but rather, to heat-weaken the steel by heating it to 600C-1100C.


ALL of your "demolition experts" have discussed ONLY the THERMITE=CUTTING model.

NONE - ZERO - ZILCH - NADA have discussed the use of thermite to heat-weaken the towers.

Nor have they discussed using thermite to create spectacular phreato-thermatic explosions.

Nor have they discussed using thermite to dust shock-tube.

Or using thermite to create highly visible fires.

Or using thermite to create the illusion of fires burning on piles of debris.

Or using thermite to create:

hot spots and cold spots
differential heating
buckling
the illusion of migrating fires
sagging floors
visco-elastic creep in columns
columns to bow inward and fail (thereby initiating the collapse of the towers)
emotionally-potent over-simplifications about "molten steel"
and on and on....

I know what I claim to know because I think for myself

unlike the "experts"

and you.


I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

This time, try and attend to the topic.


Max


Yes, Max, there is another question:

What role, if any, did the planes play?

[Max Photon]

Yes, Max, there is another question:

What role, if any, did the planes play?


Before new questions pop up like mushrooms after the first rain, did I answer your questions?

Any comments?

Care to admit that you are way out in right field?

Or are you still out in right field?


As for the idiotic question: What role did the planes play? what part don't you get?

I have a whole thread on the role of the planes.

Restate your question, or restart your brain.


Max

* * *

[YCHTT]

Those damn thermite chickens again.......they wind up in the darndest places!! LOL!

[Max Photon]

* * *

I guess Pomeroo has to go ask others what to think and say.

We'll just wait.

[Max Photon]

The following three PMs were sent by Max Photon to Apollo20

(Reprinted with permission from Apollo20.)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

August 18, 2007

Hi Frank,

I want you to know there is at least one person on this good earth who truly comprehends your AP model.

As someone who has been thinking about the period from impact to collapse initiation, and as someone who sees the game of catalyzed collapse-initiations, coupled with pre-engineered, ambiguous narratives, I believe I can see the form and function of your model in all its blazing glory. It's awesome!

I hope you can see that my collection of models, whether right or wrong, are providing a degree of confirmation of your ideas (and yours, mine), given that I am a researcher who also arrived independently at the concept of heat-weakening (regardless of the catalyst) in a manner that remains consistent with - and hence cloaked within - NIST's findings.

I'm thrilled to have a competing model! I want to strengthen mine, or kill it and trade up. Finally, I have an alternative model. Thanks.


Anyway, I justed wanted to say, "I see you."

Cheers!

Max

P.S. Your posts are always fun.

(end of PM)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

August 19, 2007

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the kind words.

Even though this is serious business, life is far too short not to have fun.

By the way, what happened to Mackey? I can't believe the wheels came off of his Radio Flyer already. It was like a 2% incline.


Anyway, you asked what I think of CB's C-4 coated rebar.

I have not spent time on his model, so I can only comment on my impressions of what I think his model is.


First, I try to remain open to all ideas.

I usually don't cross ideas off, but rather simply rank (seemingly) weaker ideas lower. (Today's favorites can become tomorrow's loser, or vice versa, with just one new observation.)


That said, I don't give CB's model too much weight at the moment.

High-explosives leave too many complex traces to be viable.

Uncertainty increases with time. Built-to-demolish maximizes that dimension of uncertainty.

C-4 doesn't fit or explain much of the evidence.

The concrete core - as I understand it - does not fit the evidence.

That Chris can't find the documentary is suspicious.

Last, I have watched Chris ambiguate people's work (mine included), and there is a quality to it that seems deliberate, even trained.


Let me offer a different perspective.

When I look at the 911 truth movement, I can make out some forms:

- The 19-Hijacker Conspiracy Hypothesists (NIST et al.)

- Jones/Ryan/STJ911/Journal 911 Studies - THERMITE WAS USED TO CUT/MELT STEEL

- The NO PLANE THEORY (NPT) crowd

- The DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPONS (DEW) crowd

- The MINI-NUKES crowd


What are the functions of these forms?


If the OGT = NOT CONTROLLED DEMOLITION

then one would test the null hypothesis:

CONTROLLED-DEMOLITION


If one assumes controlled-demolition, then one can assume MIHOP.

If one assumes MIHOP, then one can assume they'd need a way to dynamically stabilize the deception over time, even if the deception is subjected to large external shocks (like the AP model, or MAX-MIHOP).

How might dynamic stabilization be had?

Just as marketers know that consumers self-sort into a few psychological bins (lifestyles), military deception (MILDEC) planners know that people will do the same in response to 911.

Therefore, MILDEC knows that groups will form (birds of a feather).

Those who perceive themselves as serious scientist will go here, rage-against-the-machiners there, and so on.


I believe the trick being deployed is "hiding in plain view."

Rather than conceal 911 facts and risk prosecution for doing so, deception planners break the truth into chunks, and then hide the truth in plain view by - among other things - shouting out the partial truths in public until no one even listens anymore.


For example, Jones et. al. push the thermite=cutting meme, which has the effect of cloaking that thermite was used to heat-weaken the towers.


We can use this concept as a guessing tool.


What is the NO PLANE group hiding?

I say it is the phreato-thermatic explosions. How could there be such explosions if there were no jets?


What is the DEW crew hiding?

I say they are hiding that lasers were used to ignite the shock-tube.

You can see the faint flickering shock-tube flashes traveling from the upper right to lower left in this video:
WTC Thermite Video - Stabilized
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=4

You can see the laser flashes along the NE edge of both towers in this video:
2nd Hit - North Face Cropped
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0


What is the MININUKE crowd hiding?

I thought it might be DU penetrators.


What, then, might Chris Brown be hiding?

I suspect the answer is that he is trying to generate the illusion that the real showdown is around the core.

I suspect this noise is actually to divert attention from analysis of the perimeter.

The perimeter system is so simple, and transparent (relative to the core), and highly photographed and videoed.

In fact, the NE corner of WTC2 gives the whole trick away.


I believe Chris Brown is a plant, designed to generate noise.


Now, bear in mind that in my model, MILDEC knows how to deploy pseudo-gangs (which is counter-insurgency 101).

Pseudo-gangs can be induced to perform useful work, without the participants even being aware that they are slave labor.

For example, the illegal check-kiting scheme between the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve is enabled by bond speculators. The bond speculators are induced - engineered - tricked - to gamble in US treasuries to create synthetic demand for USDollar securities that would not exist otherwise. (This keeps the USDollar afloat.)


So if I imply Chris Brown (or Bazant or Jones or Ryan) are working to maintain the deception, I am coming from a position that they can be doing so, and still be completely unconscious of doing MILDEC's dirty work.

Pseudo-gangs: non-linear resistance terms induced by over-driving a dynamical system.


In fact, Mackey is doing a little pseudo-gang work at the moment.

MILDEC knew that many very fine people (like Mackey) operate from professionalism and trust.

MILDEC knew that many could never accept that their government might have done something horrible.

MILDEC knew that such people (like Mackey), when confronted with the truth, will - out of fear - tackle, obstruct - RESIST the truth, thereby helping the perpetrators!

MILDEC knows how to deploy honest people into nonlinear resistance gangs, or pseudo-gangs.

Mackey is - during his little display here - being a thug in a pseudo-gang. (I'm not trying to be clever - those are real terms.)

He is like a resistor in a circuit. (My humor, my style are short circuiting his approach.)


It is interesting to note that my model is a composite - a synthesis - of the 911 camps, while yours is of unique origin.

Yet both arrive at heat-weakening in a manner that stays consistent with the NIST reports.


Anyway, I will do my best to help you illuminate the strengths and weaknesses of your model.

If you are so inclined, any meaningful input you can provide for my models, even if it is to blow them completely out of the water, would be most appreciated.

Keep up the great work!

Max


(end of PM)

* * * * * * * * * *

Pseudo-gangs

August 20, 2007

Frank,

Here is another example of a pseudo-gang that's closer to home.

After the equities bubble burst in 2001, another bubble was needed to replace it.

A susceptibility in the citizenry was identified using something like CARVER Target Analysis.

The susceptibility is that the financially unsophisticated confuse synthetic currency for wealth, and inflation (currency devaluation) for gain.

This presented the opportunity to massively inflate (devalue) the currency, yet have the inflation funnel into housing, to make people think they are getting richer when they are in fact getting poorer. (How's that for a trick?)

Central planner engineered - induced - a housing bubble.

But they got others to do the heavy lifting.

Central planners tricked everyone into participating in the housing bubble, by "getting in the loop" via the manipulation of long term interest rates.

Deception planners used long-term interest rates to create the false signal that it made economic sense to hoard real estate. (In other words, deception planners engineered synthetic resonance in the Propensity-to-Hoard.)

Not one person in a million sees the deception (and that is important because the 911 deception uses exactly the same types of tricks).

The synthetic economic activity - similar to CPR - kept the economy alive a little longer, but at a horrendous cost.

Just look outside your window, and you'll see a $500 trillion dollar derivatives tower balanced on a $1 trillion dollar base. Now that's a house of cards! (I prefer "home of cards". It's cheerier.)

Our little pseudo-gangs have been busy. And they're happy! That is the genius of modern enslavement.

Control engineers - in a variety of fields - know how to induce and perpetuate pseudo-gangs - friction - nonlinear resistance terms.

Pseudo-gangs are induced and deployed in:

- Counterinsurgency (Al-Qaeda is a pseudo-gang);

- The unconstitutional check-kiting scheme of the USDollar;

- The erection and maintenance of the 911 deception. (NIST engineers are a pseudo-gang. STJ911 crew are a pseudo-gang. JREFers are a bunch of thugs in a pseudo-gang.)


To be clear, these are not pegorative terms, though they certainly sound that way.


Anyway, I hope you find this helpful.


Cheers!

Pseudo-Max

---

[Mr. Skinny]

Max,

Can I ask what posting your PM's to Apollo20 is meant to accomplish? Seems to be just a rehash of your theories.

It's about as meaningful to the discussion as me posting the email I recently sent my sister asking her to encourage our mother to get a hearing aid.

[Max Photon]

Max,

Can I ask what posting your PM's to Apollo20 is meant to accomplish? Seems to be just a rehash of your theories.

It's about as meaningful to the discussion as me posting the email I recently sent my sister asking her to encourage our mother to get a hearing aid.


Sir Ringe,

Well for one, this is my thread.

The discussion is about supplementary catalysts initiating the collapse of the WTC towers.

The main thrust is MAX-MIHOP.

An alternative is AP.

Though I don't consider C4 viable, it is one of the models, but more important, the C4 PM contained good information about dynamically stabilizing the deception to withstand external shocks, using nonlinear control engineering - namely, the inducement and deployment of pseudo-gangs.

The housing bubble example was designed to let all you...ahh...tools-of-the trade...know that you are already victims of the synthetic currency deception, and that the exact same deception techniques are being deployed to cloak 911.

If you can be fooled into thinking that rising housing prices equals you're getting richer, then you can certainly be fooled into thinking that 19 hijackers defeated the US Military, and that the NIST report's conclusion fits reality.

In other words, one of the functions of posting those PMs, was to show you that you are a sucker.

Max

P.S. I am heartened that you and your sister are encouraging your mom to get a hearing aid. It is common for hearing loss to come about slowly and imperceptibly. The gradual loss of hearing can create conflict, stress, and isolation, yet no one really sees or understands the root cause - one that has a very simple solution. Gradual hearing loss can have tragic consequences.

So good for you! Get your mom a hearing aid ASAP. It is the authoritative and loving thing to do.

* * *

Once again, name calling is not acceptable behavior on these forums. Please stop it now.

[3bodyproblem]

Unless you pre-bought a condo for $350K, sold it for $475K before ground broke, packed up and moved to, oh I don't know, Detroit, where foreclosure rates went up 200% since this time last year, bought a similar condo for $110K cash, and are now sitting pretty with $15K funny money in the bank and minimal expenses.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

From the Crackpot Index (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html), by John Baez. Relevant sections bolded, with explanations in italics.

I'm sure others will find more. The whole damn thing would likely be bolded if recognized authorities in the field of engineering and fire investigation were substituted for Feynman and Einstein.

The Crackpot Index
John Baez

A simple method for rating potentially revolutionary contributions to physics:

1. A -5 point starting credit.

2. 1 point for every statement that is widely agreed on to be false.

3. 2 points for every statement that is clearly vacuous.

4. 3 points for every statement that is logically inconsistent.

5. 5 points for each such statement that is adhered to despite careful correction.

6. 5 points for using a thought experiment that contradicts the results of a widely accepted real experiment.

7. 5 points for each word in all capital letters (except for those with defective keyboards). - "MAX-MIHOP", "MILDEC"

8. 5 points for each mention of "Einstien", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".

9. 10 points for each claim that quantum mechanics is fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).

10. 10 points for pointing out that you have gone to school, as if this were evidence of sanity.

11. 10 points for beginning the description of your theory by saying how long you have been working on it.

12. 10 points for mailing your theory to someone you don't know personally and asking them not to tell anyone else about it, for fear that your ideas will be stolen.

13. 10 points for offering prize money to anyone who proves and/or finds any flaws in your theory.

14. 10 points for each new term you invent and use without properly defining it. - "Phreato-thermatic", "MILDEDC"

15. 10 points for each statement along the lines of "I'm not good at math, but my theory is conceptually right, so all I need is for someone to express it in terms of equations".

16. 10 points for arguing that a current well-established theory is "only a theory", as if this were somehow a point against it.

17. 10 points for arguing that while a current well-established theory predicts phenomena correctly, it doesn't explain "why" they occur, or fails to provide a "mechanism".

18. 10 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Einstein, or claim that special or general relativity are fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).

19. 10 points for claiming that your work is on the cutting edge of a "paradigm shift".

20. 20 points for emailing me and complaining about the crackpot index. (E.g., saying that it "suppresses original thinkers" or saying that I misspelled "Einstein" in item 8.)

21. 20 points for suggesting that you deserve a Nobel prize.

22. 20 points for each favorable comparison of yourself to Newton or claim that classical mechanics is fundamentally misguided (without good evidence).

23. 20 points for every use of science fiction works or myths as if they were fact.

24. 20 points for defending yourself by bringing up (real or imagined) ridicule accorded to your past theories.

25. 20 points for naming something after yourself. (E.g., talking about the "The Evans Field Equation" when your name happens to be Evans.) - "MAX-MIHOP"

26. 20 points for talking about how great your theory is, but never actually explaining it.

27. 20 points for each use of the phrase "hidebound reactionary".

28. 20 points for each use of the phrase "self-appointed defender of the orthodoxy".

29. 30 points for suggesting that a famous figure secretly disbelieved in a theory which he or she publicly supported. (E.g., that Feynman was a closet opponent of special relativity, as deduced by reading between the lines in his freshman physics textbooks.)

30. 30 points for suggesting that Einstein, in his later years, was groping his way towards the ideas you now advocate.

31. 30 points for claiming that your theories were developed by an extraterrestrial civilization (without good evidence).

32. 30 points for allusions to a delay in your work while you spent time in an asylum, or references to the psychiatrist who tried to talk you out of your theory.

33. 40 points for comparing those who argue against your ideas to Nazis, stormtroopers, or brownshirts. - Does calling us all "NISTIANS" count?

34. 40 points for claiming that the "scientific establishment" is engaged in a "conspiracy" to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame, or suchlike.

35. 40 points for comparing yourself to Galileo, suggesting that a modern-day Inquisition is hard at work on your case, and so on.

36. 40 points for claiming that when your theory is finally appreciated, present-day science will be seen for the sham it truly is. (30 more points for fantasizing about show trials in which scientists who mocked your theories will be forced to recant.) - Has a bug up his butt over NIST. Makes thinly veiled death threats against them. (http://maxphoton.com/2007/06/10/an-email-to-the-nist-wtc-investigation-team.aspx)

37. 50 points for claiming you have a revolutionary theory but giving no concrete testable predictions. - self explanitory

[Mr. Skinny]

Sir Ringe,
This is actually kinda cute - Sir Ringe.


Well for one, this is my thread.

Sorry, but no one "owns" threads here.

The discussion is about supplementary catalysts initiating the collapse of the WTC towers.

The main thrust is MAX-MIHOP.

An alternative is AP.

Though I don't consider C4 viable, it is one of the models, but more important, the C4 PM contained good information about dynamically stabilizing the deception to withstand external shocks, using nonlinear control engineering - namely, the inducement and deployment of pseudo-gangs.

The housing bubble example was designed to let all you...ahh...tools-of-the trade...know that you are already victims of the synthetic currency deception, and that the exact same deception techniques are being deployed to cloak 911.

If you can be fooled into thinking that rising housing prices equals you're getting richer, then you can certainly be fooled into thinking that 19 hijackers defeated the US Military, and that the NIST report's conclusion fits reality.

In other words, one of the functions of posting those PMs, was to show you that you are a sucker.

Max

As I said, it seems another simple rehash of your theories.

I was asking what posting those PM's added to the debate/conversation. ??

And actually, I kinda liked Apollo20's AP theory at first. At least it was different and made me pause to imagine if it might be possible. In that respect, it was the first flash of imagination I'd seen that wasn't totally loony at first blush.

On further examination, I found the theory to be improbable and lacking in sufficient detail.

[pomeroo]

Before new questions pop up like mushrooms after the first rain, did I answer your questions?

Any comments?

Care to admit that you are way out in right field?

Or are you still out in right field?


As for the idiotic question: What role did the planes play? what part don't you get?

I have a whole thread on the role of the planes.

Restate your question, or restart your brain.


Max

* * *



Max, you were caught lying about the planes. There were no remote-controlled drones. You made a horse's ass of yourself.

Now, what role did the commercial airliners the hijackers flew into the Towers play in the eventual collapses of the buildings?

[Apollo20]

14. 10 points for each new term you invent and use without properly defining it. - "Phreato-thermatic", "MILDEDC"

I beleive Max Photon did define these terms quite well actually.

[Myriad]

The following three PMs were sent by Max Photon to Apollo20


I note, in passing, that Dr. Greening appears to be reaping the karmic rewards of his encoragement of Max on this and in various past threads.

Max, it's clear Frank is very interested in your theories, but don't forget that he's in a position where he might have to be circumspect at times. He might at some point even have reason to pretend to tell you to stop bothering him with PMs, emails, letters, messages tied to rocks thrown through his windows, or entering his house when he's not present and waiting for him to come home. He might someday even have to pretend to take out a "restraining order" on you. Remember, that's only to keep the bad guys from figuring out that the two of you are best friends and scientific colleagues working together to expose their evil plans. Don't be discouraged by these necessary ruses! He wants to hear more about your theories, always. He wants to know all about every idea that ever comes into your head for the rest of time. Please don't disappoint him.


[All right, so my karma is now registering somewhere between "brain-eating amoeba" and "the coach who has to come up with the next game plan against the Patriots." Sigh. Put it on the tab.]

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Max Photon]

* * *

Gentle readers,

The following post of mine (from a different thread) discusses thermite in box columns:

Max Photon suggests Apollo20 use Paul's Magic Filter to eliminate pesky MILDEC noise
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3022577#post3022577

Max

[Max Photon]

* * *

Serious readers of this thread

would benefit greatly from reading (or re-reading):

NIST NCSTAR 1-3C: Damage and Failure Modes of Structural Steel Components >
Chapter 6: Fire Exposure of the Structural Elements >
NIST pages 217-277

http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-3Cchaps.pdf

(If you have not done so, I recommend downloading the PDF to your hard drive, for more convenient access.)


Pay special attention to recovered steel members:


C-115
C-131
K-1
K-2
K-16
N-8


Pay extra-special attention to:

Section 6.3.4: Unique Cases of Damage Possibly Related to Elevated Temperature Exposure


Remember, the information is in the errors!

MAX-MIHOP effortlessly accounts for everything in NCSTAR 1-3C/6.

I defy any other model to do the same.


Trust me, people: NIST NCSTAR 1-5A/9/C synthesized with NCSTAR 1-3C/6 is all you need to see how the collapses of the WTC towers were synthetically initiated.

Don't forget to use Paul's Magic Filter!


Max Living-Up-To-His-Name Photon


P.S. Apollo20,

NIST Fig. 6-24 (of C-115) shows that thinned (corroded) truss rod you had mentioned quite some time back, but could remember which report it was in.


* * *

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Dear Max Photon,

l2formatposts kthxdrvthru

[Terral]

Hi Max Proton:

Max >> Whenever people discuss thermite, they inevitably reveal that they have been indellibly branded by military deception, or MILDEC. "Thermite slices through steel like a hot knife through butter," is the pop phrase that clutters the mind and makes one - well - stupid.

You are attempting to quote Dr. Steven E. Jones from the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University who knows more about Thermite and sulfur-rich Thermate than anyone here. Regular old Thermite burns at 2500-degrees Celsius and can easily be used to cut through structural ‘red-iron’ steel like a hot knife through butter. The evidence for Controlled Demolition was found six weeks later in the sulfur-rich Molten Metal Pools under the basements of all three WTC skyscrapers. WTC-7 alone had hundreds and hundreds of steel connections ‘severed’ simultaneously to cause a ‘symmetrical’ collapse impossible to simulate using any building fires. The reason is that steel is an excellent conductor of heat and the energy is dispersed evenly throughout the entire steel-framed network. Jim Meigs’ Popular Mechanic assertions about building fires softening structural steel is nonsense, because heat never rests or stands still within any steel-framed network. The energy entering any component of the network races in the direction of the cooler areas, so to ‘soften’ (heh) one pound of WTC steel, you must heat up the entire steel-framed network. We have pictures of people walking around in the North Tower entry hole before the collapse, which proves no 'foundry-level' temperatures were present anywhere.

The idea that a few building fires can actually bring down an overbuilt 47-story steel-framed skyscraper is nothing more than fantasy, because WTC-7 was designed and constructed using “Compartmentalization” of all structural steel columns and beams using concrete slabs horizontally and curtain walls vertically. That means WTC-7 was a literal three dimensional checkerboard comprised of sub-compartments stacked 47 stories high. Therefore, any fuel source would burn out completely in any given sub-compartment LONG before penetrating the fireproofing countermeasures into the adjacent areas of the building. This is why ‘all’ steel-framed skyscrapers on earth are ‘fireproof’ and cannot be burned down by building fires. The only way to bring down any steel-framed skyscraper is for men to create a very involved plan and execute that plan with a great deal of precision, which is exactly what we saw with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 on 9/11.

GL,

Terral

[Dave Rogers]

Hi Max Proton:

You are attempting to quote Dr. Steven E. Jones from the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University who knows more about Thermite and sulfur-rich Thermate than anyone here. Regular old Thermite burns at 2500-degrees Celsius and can easily be used to cut through structural ‘red-iron’ steel like a hot knife through butter. The evidence for Controlled Demolition was found six weeks later in the sulfur-rich Molten Metal Pools under the basements of all three WTC skyscrapers. WTC-7 alone had hundreds and hundreds of steel connections ‘severed’ simultaneously to cause a ‘symmetrical’ collapse impossible to simulate using any building fires. The reason is that steel is an excellent conductor of heat and the energy is dispersed evenly throughout the entire steel-framed network. Jim Meigs’ Popular Mechanic assertions about building fires softening structural steel is nonsense, because heat never rests or stands still within any steel-framed network. The energy entering any component of the network races in the direction of the cooler areas, so to ‘soften’ (heh) one pound of WTC steel, you must heat up the entire steel-framed network. We have pictures of people walking around in the North Tower entry hole before the collapse, which proves no 'foundry-level' temperatures were present anywhere.

The idea that a few building fires can actually bring down an overbuilt 47-story steel-framed skyscraper is nothing more than fantasy, because WTC-7 was designed and constructed using “Compartmentalization” of all structural steel columns and beams using concrete slabs horizontally and curtain walls vertically. That means WTC-7 was a literal three dimensional checkerboard comprised of sub-compartments stacked 47 stories high. Therefore, any fuel source would burn out completely in any given sub-compartment LONG before penetrating the fireproofing countermeasures into the adjacent areas of the building. This is why ‘all’ steel-framed skyscrapers on earth are ‘fireproof’ and cannot be burned down by building fires. The only way to bring down any steel-framed skyscraper is for men to create a very involved plan and execute that plan with a great deal of precision, which is exactly what we saw with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 on 9/11.

And this week's special CT competition: Find the half sentence in the above which is actually true.

Dave

[Mooseman]

Fresh over from the LC forum?

[DavidJames]

The only way to bring down any steel-framed skyscraper is for men to create a very involved plan and execute that plan with a great deal of precision, which is exactly what we saw with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 on 9/11.

GL,

TerralWelcome to the forum, I look forward to your evidence supporting this claim. Note, when I say evidence, I'm not talking about people hearing explosions or "squibs" or phony building power downs. I'm talking physical evidence of explosives. For example, the residue, eyewitness accounts of seeing the bombs, eye witness accounts seeing the bombs being planted. Confessions of those involved. Phone taps, emails of the "perps". In other words not wet dreams of of basement Columbo's.

[Terral]

Hi David James:

Thank you for writing and for the welcome:

David >> Welcome to the forum, I look forward to your evidence supporting this claim. Note, when I say evidence, I'm not talking about people hearing explosions or "squibs" or phony building power downs.


We both know I have been reduced to chat-monkey status without the tools to make a real post, so you must wait until I earn my wings. :0)

David >> I'm talking physical evidence of explosives. For example, the residue, eyewitness accounts of seeing the bombs, eye witness accounts seeing the bombs being planted.


Of course. You want to see my “WTC-7 Controlled Demolition” thesis paper with claims, evidence and conclusions.

David >> Confessions of those involved. Phone taps, emails of the "perps". In other words not wet dreams of of basement Columbo's.


No sir. Please stop dreaming and let’s all live in the real world. Your job as my debating adversary is to show us how building fires brought down 47 stories of overbuilt WTC skyscraper in just a few hours from building fires. Good Luck, because you need a bunch. :0)

Terral

[Terral]

Hi Mooseman:

Thank you for writing.

Mooseman >> Fresh over from the LC forum?


Yes. And from 911Truth.org, AE911Truth.org, PilotsForTruth.org, LetsRoll Board and others. :0) My debating opponents elsewhere kept bragging about the maturity and knowledge on display at this JREF Board, so I had to come over and see what you guys are all about. The first thing I noticed is the format is slanted in the “Conspiracy Theories” direction rather than the “911Truth” angle like most Boards. The 911Truth Topics here appear more like side order subjects rather than main course meals, if you know what I mean. :0) The idea of having just one room for all these 911Truth Topics kind of boggles the mind.

GL,

Terral

[DavidJames]

Hi David James:

Thank you for writing and for the welcome:Your welcome
We both know I have been reduced to chat-monkey status without the tools to make a real post, so you must wait until I earn my wings. :0) You can provide links by mangling the url (spell DOT, for example.)Of course. You want to see my “WTC-7 Controlled Demolition” thesis paper with claims, evidence and conclusions. ...
No sir. Please stop dreaming and let’s all live in the real world. Your job as my debating adversary is to show us how building fires brought down 47 stories of overbuilt WTC skyscraper in just a few hours from building fires. Good Luck, because you need a bunch. :0)

TerralLet me remind you of your quote to which I repliedThe only way to bring down any steel-framed skyscraper is for men to create a very involved plan and execute that plan with a great deal of precision, which is exactly what we saw with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 on 9/11. So, you are not limited to WTC7, also, it is you who made the claim that I'm asking you to provide evidence. You have the burden of proof. As I have not made a claim, I don't need to provide any evidence. Please do not shift the burdon of proof.

It is you that needs the Good Luck...

[Disbelief]

No sir. Please stop dreaming and let’s all live in the real world. Your job as my debating adversary is to show us how building fires brought down 47 stories of overbuilt WTC skyscraper in just a few hours from building fires. Good Luck, because you need a bunch. :0)

Terral

So, how exactly was WTC 7 overbuilt? Are you talking safety factor? Besides fires, did you forget about the structural damage?

[Max Photon]

* * *

Hi guys,

Though a little drift is certainly fine, the topic of this thread is (drum roll please)....

Thermite Was Placed In Box-Columns and Spandrel Splice Gaps to Heat-Weaken WTC Steel.

So anytime you guys want to stop fiddling with the radio or applying makeup, and get back on road, that'd be great.

Your favorite backseat driver,

Max

* * *

[Max Photon]

Hi Max Proton:

You are attempting to quote Dr. Steven E. Jones from the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University who knows more about Thermite and sulfur-rich Thermate than anyone here. Regular old Thermite burns at 2500-degrees Celsius and can easily be used to cut through structural ‘red-iron’ steel like a hot knife through butter. The evidence for Controlled Demolition was found six weeks later in the sulfur-rich Molten Metal Pools under the basements of all three WTC skyscrapers. WTC-7 alone had hundreds and hundreds of steel connections ‘severed’ simultaneously to cause a ‘symmetrical’ collapse impossible to simulate using any building fires. The reason is that steel is an excellent conductor of heat and the energy is dispersed evenly throughout the entire steel-framed network. Jim Meigs’ Popular Mechanic assertions about building fires softening structural steel is nonsense, because heat never rests or stands still within any steel-framed network. The energy entering any component of the network races in the direction of the cooler areas, so to ‘soften’ (heh) one pound of WTC steel, you must heat up the entire steel-framed network. We have pictures of people walking around in the North Tower entry hole before the collapse, which proves no 'foundry-level' temperatures were present anywhere.

The idea that a few building fires can actually bring down an overbuilt 47-story steel-framed skyscraper is nothing more than fantasy, because WTC-7 was designed and constructed using “Compartmentalization” of all structural steel columns and beams using concrete slabs horizontally and curtain walls vertically. That means WTC-7 was a literal three dimensional checkerboard comprised of sub-compartments stacked 47 stories high. Therefore, any fuel source would burn out completely in any given sub-compartment LONG before penetrating the fireproofing countermeasures into the adjacent areas of the building. This is why ‘all’ steel-framed skyscrapers on earth are ‘fireproof’ and cannot be burned down by building fires. The only way to bring down any steel-framed skyscraper is for men to create a very involved plan and execute that plan with a great deal of precision, which is exactly what we saw with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 on 9/11.

GL,

Terral


Hi Terral, welcome.

Try this on for size:

http://maxphoton.com/2007/06/02/max-photon-reveals-the-trick-stj911-is-nists-cloaking-device.aspx


(Moderators, please don't accuse me of spamming. I don't believe I've linked to this page before. If I have I don't remember where. For God's sake, have mercy for once.)

* * *

[twinstead]

Terral with all due respect, why are you on this forum trying to convince us of anything? Basically you have the cream of the crop of experts in the relevant fields who signed their names to the NIST report and to other reports and papers (like Purdue University). You can find a list of their names in the public domain easily.

They are the ones you need to convince that they are totally wrong. Maybe then a group of them will go to Congress with your Earth-shattering evidence and get your 'truth' ball rolling.

See, since I am a layman I must rely on experts. If a bunch of REAL ones got together and said, "hey, I think that truth movement might be on to something" then I might take serious notice.

Your efforts are totally wasted here.

[Disbelief]

See, since I am a layman I must rely on experts. If a bunch of REAL ones got together and said, "hey, I think that truth movement might be on to something" then I might take serious notice.

Your efforts are totally wasted here.

*Cue obligatory link to ae911 dudes. Same dudes who have zero peer-reviewed papers.*

[beachnut]

Hi Max Proton:

You are attempting to quote Dr. Steven E. Jones from the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University who knows more about Thermite and sulfur-rich Thermate than anyone here. Regular old Thermite burns at 2500-degrees Celsius and can easily be used to cut through structural ‘red-iron’ steel like a hot knife through butter. The evidence for Controlled Demolition was found six weeks later in the sulfur-rich Molten Metal Pools under the basements of all three WTC skyscrapers. WTC-7 alone had hundreds and hundreds of steel connections ‘severed’ simultaneously to cause a ‘symmetrical’ collapse impossible to simulate using any building fires. The reason is that steel is an excellent conductor of heat and the energy is dispersed evenly throughout the entire steel-framed network. Jim Meigs’ Popular Mechanic assertions about building fires softening structural steel is nonsense, because heat never rests or stands still within any steel-framed network. The energy entering any component of the network races in the direction of the cooler areas, so to ‘soften’ (heh) one pound of WTC steel, you must heat up the entire steel-framed network. We have pictures of people walking around in the North Tower entry hole before the collapse, which proves no 'foundry-level' temperatures were present anywhere.

The idea that a few building fires can actually bring down an overbuilt 47-story steel-framed skyscraper is nothing more than fantasy, because WTC-7 was designed and constructed using “Compartmentalization” of all structural steel columns and beams using concrete slabs horizontally and curtain walls vertically. That means WTC-7 was a literal three dimensional checkerboard comprised of sub-compartments stacked 47 stories high. Therefore, any fuel source would burn out completely in any given sub-compartment LONG before penetrating the fireproofing countermeasures into the adjacent areas of the building. This is why ‘all’ steel-framed skyscrapers on earth are ‘fireproof’ and cannot be burned down by building fires. The only way to bring down any steel-framed skyscraper is for men to create a very involved plan and execute that plan with a great deal of precision, which is exactly what we saw with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7 on 9/11.

GL,

Terral
Jones made up his thermite junk out of the blue. He had to learn about it as he made up more lies. He was upset about Iraq, and made up the thermite story. He has no facts and was fired. When you support Jones, that is a red flag for having no facts or the ability to use logic, or rational ideas to support 9/11 conclusions.

If someone can not figure out Jones is making up thermite, then they are not very knowledgeable or do they have experience recognizing facts and evidence to support conclusions.

So you do not think fire makes steel fail. You are unable to understand the real world. Welcome, but next time you should bring some facts and not hearsay junk from others in the 9/11 truth movement. Still not one fact to support 9/11 truth ideas. Do you have anything new? It is easy to see Max lacks evidence, and you have yet to produce one single fact. And it appears you have never been in a fire or near a foundry. You should take some physics classes and understand the real world before you support Dr Jones, one of the biggest nuts on 9/11.

Jones's first paper is not very good, and he has zero evidence from 9/11 or any rational ideas on 9/11


I believe WTC collapses to be due to controlled demolition are:

1. My own analysis of the "pancaking" floors model (the FEMA/NIST model) combined with Conservation of Momentum considerations gives a much longer time for the fall (over 10 seconds) than that which was actually observed for WTC-7 (about 6.3 seconds, just over the free-fall time of 6.0 seconds). I find no evidence in their reports that government researchers (FEMA, NIST, 9-11 Commission) included Conservation of Momentum in their analyses.

2. The fact that WTC-7 fell down symmetrically, onto its own footprint very neatly, even though fires were just observed on one side of the building. A symmetrical collapse, as observed, requires the simultaneous "pulling" of support beams. By my count, there were 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns in WTC-7. Heat transport considerations for steel beams heated by fire suggest that failure of even a few columns at the same time is very small. Adding in the Second Law of Thermodynamics ("law of increasing entropy") leads to the conclusion that the likelihood of near-symmetrical collapse of the building due to fires (the "government" theory) -- requiring as it does near-simultaneous failure of many support columns -- is infinitesimal. Yet near-symmetrical collapse of WTC-7 was observed. (If you still haven't gone to the links above to see the actual collapse for yourself, please go there now.)

Note that the 9-11 Commission report does not even deal with the collapse of WTC-7. This is a striking omission of highly relevant data.

3.Squibs (horizontal puffs of smoke and debris) are observed emerging from WTC-7, in regular sequence, just as the building starts to collapse. (SEE: http://tinyurl.com/7drxn ) Yet the floors have not moved relative to one another yet, as one can verify from the videos, so air-expulsion due to collapsing floors is excluded. I have personally examined many building demolitions based on on-line videos, and the presence of such squibs firing in rapid sequence as observed is prima facie evidence for the use of pre-positioned explosives inside the building.

4. The pulverization of concrete to powder and the horizontal ejection of steel beams for hundreds of yards, observed clearly in the collapses of the WTC towers, requires much more energy than is available from gravitational potential energy alone. Explosives will give the observed features. Other scientists have provided quantitative analysis of the observed pulverizations, and I can provide references if you wish. Here we are appealing to the violation of Conservation of Energy inherent in the "official" pancaking-floors theory-- a horrendous violation, forbidden by principles of Physics. (What is going on for the FEMA/NIST researchers to make such striking errors/omissions?)

5. I conducted simple experiments on the "pancaking" theory, by dropping cement blocks from approximately 12 feet onto other cement blocks. (The floors in the WTC buildings were about 12 feet apart.) We are supposed to believe, from the pancaking theory, that a concrete floor dropping 12 feet onto another concrete floor will result in PULVERIZED concrete observed during the Towers' collapses! Nonsense! My own experiments, and I welcome you to try this yourself, is that only chips/large chunks of cement flaked off the blocks -- no mass pulverization to approx. 100-micron powder as observed. Explosives, however, can indeed convert concrete to dust --mostly, along with some large chunks-- as observed in the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9-11-01.

6. The observations of molten metal (I did not say molten steel!) in the basements of all three buildings, WTC 1, 2 and 7 is consistent with the use of the extremely high-temperature thermite reaction: iron oxide + aluminum powder --> Al2O3 + molten iron. Falling buildings are not observed to generate melting of large quantities of molten metal -- this requires a concentrated heat source such as explosives. Even the government reports admit that the fires were insufficient to melt steel beams (they argue for heating and warping then failure of these beams) -- but these reports do not mention the observed molten metal in the basements of WTC1, 2 and 7. Again we have a glaring omission of critical data in the FEMA, NIST and 9-11 Commission reports.


7. I understand that models of the steel-frame WTC buildings at Underwriters Laboratories subjected to intense fires did NOT collapse. And no steel-frame buildings before or after 9/11/2001 have collapsed due to fire. Thus, the "official" fire-pancaking model fails the scientific test of REPRODUCIBILITY. (Earthquake- caused collapses have occured, but there were no major earthquakes in NYC on that day. And buildings which have collapsed due to earthquakes collapse asymmetrically, as expected -- not like the nearly straight-down collapse of WTC 7 to a small rubble pile!)


8. Explosions -- multiple loud explosions in rapid sequence -- were heard and reported by numerous observers in (and near) the WTC buildings, consistent with explosive demolition. Some of the firemen who reported explosions barely escaped with their lives.

Essentially none of these science-based considerations is mentioned in the Popular Mechanics article on this subject, authored by B. Chertoff (a cousin of M. Chertoff who heads the Homeland Security Dept.) (Squibs are mentioned briefly, but the brief PM analysis does not fit the observed facts.)

I have performed other analyses regarding the WTC collapses on 9-11-01 which may be of interest --let me know if you're interested. The matter is highly interesting to me as a physicist -- and as a citizen of the United States. I conclude that the evidence for pre-positioned explosives in WTC 7 (also in towers 1 and 2) is truly compelling.

Steven E. Jones
Professor of Physics/BYU

This article was posted on 9.16.05

This is not science, it is junk. Junk! Where was Jones from 9/11/2001 to 9/15/2005? When your political bias makes you make up lies about 9/11, you are no longer a man of science, you are just a someone making up doltish ideas.

[twinstead]

*Cue obligatory link to ae911 dudes. Same dudes who have zero peer-reviewed papers.*

Yea, I know the drill.

But, one of these days some truther will actually understand the difference between the bonafide experts at Purdue University and those who contributed to the NIST report, as well as all the properly peer-reviewed papers supporting the official account, and the rag-tag bunch at ae911, the vast majority of whom have no relevant qualifications AT ALL!

In a war of attrition of experts, truthers don't have a chance.

[Myriad]

Hey Max,

From diagrams and descriptions of the perimeter box columns, it appears to me that the thinnest steel near the end plates of the perimeter box columns was the outer face of the box column.

That being the case, it would appear that sufficient thermite to substantially weaken the column join would melt through the outer face and be quite visible (as glowing reaction product would pour out).

Have you run any tests to see if this problem can be avoided?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Max Photon]

Hey Max,

From diagrams and descriptions of the perimeter box columns, it appears to me that the thinnest steel near the end plates of the perimeter box columns was the outer face of the box column.

That being the case, it would appear that sufficient thermite to substantially weaken the column join would melt through the outer face and be quite visible (as glowing reaction product would pour out).

Have you run any tests to see if this problem can be avoided?

Respectfully,
Myriad


...sufficient thermite to substantially weaken the column join would melt through the outer face...

Have you run any tests to see if this problem exists?

Respectfully,
Max

[Max Photon]

* * *

Serious readers of this thread

would benefit greatly from reading (or re-reading):

NIST NCSTAR 1-3C: Damage and Failure Modes of Structural Steel Components >
Chapter 6: Fire Exposure of the Structural Elements >
NIST pages 217-277

http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-3Cchaps.pdf

(If you have not done so, I recommend downloading the PDF to your hard drive, for more convenient access.)


Pay special attention to recovered steel members:


C-115
C-131
K-1
K-2
K-16
N-8


Pay extra-special attention to:

Section 6.3.4: Unique Cases of Damage Possibly Related to Elevated Temperature Exposure


Remember, the information is in the errors!

MAX-MIHOP effortlessly accounts for everything in NCSTAR 1-3C/6.

I defy any other model to do the same.


Trust me, people: NIST NCSTAR 1-5A/9/C synthesized with NCSTAR 1-3C/6 is all you need to see how the collapses of the WTC towers were synthetically initiated.

Don't forget to use Paul's Magic Filter!


Max Living-Up-To-His-Name Photon


P.S. Apollo20,

NIST Fig. 6-24 (of C-115) shows that thinned (corroded) truss rod you had mentioned quite some time back, but could[n't] remember which report it was in.


* * *



MAX PHOTON TURNS UP THE HEAT


It is a simple affair to logically arrive at the WTC demolition planners' target temperature range to induce heat-weakening in WTC steel.



250 C - The temperature at which paint cracked in NIST's tests
500 C - Steel becomes incandescent (faint red)
580 C - Steel is blood red
590 C - The critical temperature of steel
625 C - Spheroidization of pearlite (after 15 minutes exposure)
660 C - Aluminum melts
690 C - Steel is medium cherry
700 C - "Significant" heat-weakening takes place (NIST FAQ #12)
727 C - Austenite begins to form / decarburization


Also note that parabolic oxidation becomes more vigorous as the temperature increases in this range.

(Remember, as Max said: The Rust is a Bust!)


Looking at these constraints, it is easy to see that the WTC demolition planners' steel temperature target range is close to, but below 625 C.

This is the range that best balances heat-weakening the steel with avoiding detection.


Note that there were planned exceptions.

For example, WTC2/81/301 was heated to about 1000 C - 1100 C.


Max Temp Photon


* * *

[Myriad]

...sufficient thermite to substantially weaken the column join would melt through the outer face...

Have you run any tests to see if this problem exists?


Why should I do that, Max?

Isn't it enough just to give a possible reason to doubt your theory?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Max Photon]

Why should I do that, Max?

Isn't it enough just to give a possible reason to doubt your theory?

Respectfully,
Myriad


Okay Mr. Double Standard.

Then isn't it enough just for Max to give a possible reason to doubt NIST's theory?

* * *

[Myriad]

Okay Mr. Double Standard.

Then isn't it enough just for Max to give a possible reason to doubt NIST's theory?

* * *


Exactly my point.

No, it is not. In either case. Otherwise, your theory is as easily rejected based on unproven assertions as NIST's theory is.

So, what tests (or calculations or simulations) have you run to see if any problem exists with the theory that the collapses were caused by impact damage and thermal effects of fires fueled by substances known for certain to be present?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Max Photon]

Exactly my point.

No, it is not. In either case. Otherwise, your theory is as easily rejected based on unproven assertions as NIST's theory is.

So, what tests (or calculations or simulations) have you run to see if any problem exists with the theory that the collapses were caused by impact damage and thermal effects of fires fueled by substances known for certain to be present?

Respectfully,
Myriad



I know this is orthogonal to your basis, but I used my God-given eyeballs and brain.

(Oh! And all of NIST's test, calculations, and simulations.)


* * *

[Bell]

I know this is orthogonal to your basis, but I used my God-given eyeballs and brain.


* * *

Let me see if I get this right.

You LOOKED at the images and THOUGHT the buildings couldn't collapse because of the damage and subsequent fires? Then you THOUGHT thermite was placed in box-columns and spandrel splice gaps to heat weaken the WTC steel and the aluminum of Flights 11 & 175 was used to create phreato-thermatic explosions?

Yes?

[DavidJames]

Let me see if I get this right.

You LOOKED at the images and THOUGHT the buildings couldn't collapse because of the damage and subsequent fires? Then you THOUGHT thermite was placed in box-columns and spandrel splice gaps to heat weaken the WTC steel and the aluminum of Flights 11 & 175 was used to create phreato-thermatic explosions?

Yes?
Exactly, just like every other CTists, he just made it up. Max is your garden variety CTists, with an (unused) education.

[Max Photon]

Let me see if I get this right.

You LOOKED at the images and THOUGHT the buildings couldn't collapse because of the damage and subsequent fires? Then you THOUGHT thermite was placed in box-columns and spandrel splice gaps to heat weaken the WTC steel and the aluminum of Flights 11 & 175 was used to create phreato-thermatic explosions?

Yes?


Actually, I was doing research in the Gold War - the real war - and in doing so I learned a lot about how pseudo-gangs are induced by control engineers to serve as dynamic cloaking devices.

I just happened to look over at the 911 kiddie pool - which is a much less complicated affair - and it took me a very short time indeed to see right through the trick.


Please don't inflict your small, linear, uninformed vision on me.

It gets really tiresome.


Thanks.

Max

* * *

[Max Photon]

Exactly, just like every other CTists, he just made it up. Max is your garden variety CTists, with an (unused) education.



You guys are so slow I never need to break it out of the box.


* * *

[pomeroo]

Actually, I was doing research in the Gold War - the real war - and in doing so I learned a lot about how pseudo-gangs are induced by control engineers to serve as dynamic cloaking devices.

I just happened to look over at the 911 kiddie pool - which is a much less complicated affair - and it took me a very short time indeed to see right through the trick.


Please don't inflict your small, linear, uninformed vision on me.

It gets really tiresome.


Thanks.

Max

* * *


But, Max, your IQ is demonstrably lower than that of almost everyone here. How do you "see through" complicated issues when your ability to think critically is nonexistent?

[Bell]

Actually, I was doing research in the Gold War - the real war - and in doing so I learned a lot about how pseudo-gangs are induced by control engineers to serve as dynamic cloaking devices.

I just happened to look over at the 911 kiddie pool - which is a much less complicated affair - and it took me a very short time indeed to see right through the trick.


Please don't inflict your small, linear, uninformed vision on me.

It gets really tiresome.


Thanks.

Max

* * *

You can sleep now, Max.

[Max Photon]

Actually, I was doing research in the Gold War - the real war - and in doing so I learned a lot about how pseudo-gangs are induced by control engineers to serve as dynamic cloaking devices.

I just happened to look over at the 911 kiddie pool - which is a much less complicated affair - and it took me a very short time indeed to see right through the trick.


Please don't inflict your small, linear, uninformed vision on me.

It gets really tiresome.


Thanks.

Max

* * *



Gentle readers,

I know I keep saying Max Photon doesn't baby-sit, but I feel compelled to do so here, because I am virtually certain no one will understand my above post:


Here is the most important concept I could possible share with the world:


The Global War on Terror is the cloaking device for the Global War on Gold


I sometimes wonder if there are even 1000 people on earth who understand that sentence.


The intelligent few will ponder this.


Max

P.S.

Here is a research hint for the serious: the same cloaking mechanisms used in the Global War on Gold are being used to cloak the 911 controlled-demolitions, in plain view, with the whole world watching.

I am putting you on some serious game here.


* * *

[Bell]

Gentle readers,

I know I keep saying Max Photon doesn't baby-sit, but I feel compelled to do so here, because I am virtually certain no one will understand my above post:


Here is the most important concept I could possible share with the world:


The Global War on Terror is the cloaking device for the Global War on Gold


I sometimes wonder if there are even 1000 people on earth who understand that sentence.


The intelligent few will ponder this.


Max


* * *

I hope we kill all those bastard golds!

[pomeroo]

Gentle readers,

I know I keep saying Max Photon doesn't baby-sit, but I feel compelled to do so here, because I am virtually certain no one will understand my above post:


Here is the most important concept I could possible share with the world:


The Global War on Terror is the cloaking device for the Global War on Gold


I sometimes wonder if there are even 1000 people on earth who understand that sentence.


The intelligent few will ponder this.


Max


* * *


Hey, Max, one good nickname deserves another. Henceforth you are Dr. Emmett L. Brown.

Tell us who is conducting your "War on Gold." Does Jim Dines agree?

It wouldn't be the Jooooos, would it?

As your thermite fantasies have been exposed as a silly and baseless sham, shouldn't you be preparing a rant on the Federal Reserve System?

I bet you're one hell of an economist, you little Renaissance Man, you.

[Bell]

Hey, Max, one good nickname deserves another. Henceforth you are Dr. Emmett L. Brown.

[...]

Don't diss the Doc! :mad:

;)

[Max Photon]

I bet you're one hell of an economist, you little Renaissance Man, you.




Thanks Oprah.

[pomeroo]

* * *

Thanks Oprah.


No need--you've earned it.

[Myriad]

Exactly my point.

No, it is not. In either case. Otherwise, your theory is as easily rejected based on unproven assertions as NIST's theory is.

So, what tests (or calculations or simulations) have you run to see if any problem exists with the theory that the collapses were caused by impact damage and thermal effects of fires fueled by substances known for certain to be present?

Respectfully,
Myriad

I know this is orthogonal to your basis, but I used my God-given eyeballs and brain.

(Oh! And all of NIST's test, calculations, and simulations.)


So you've done none.

Without doing any tests or calculations myself either, I can say with great certainty that the thinner front plate of the column would melt through before the full thickness of the end caps and through-bolts reached a temperature of 625 degrees C.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[uruk]

[SIZE="4"]The Global War on Terror is the cloaking device for the Global War on Gold


* * *

So basicaly you're saying it all about the benjamins........ or rather bullion.

[DarkMagician]

You guys are so slow I never need to break it out of the box.


* * *

That's a trash can, Max.

[Max Photon]

* * *

Tony Szamboti,


I would really appreciate it if you could give some input on the MAX-MIHOP ideas that:


Thermite was poured into perimeter box columns and spandrel splice gaps, and planted (wrapped in paper and black plastic) at the chords right by floor truss seats and gusset seats;
The function of planted thermite was not to cut, melt, or slice WTC steel, but to heat-weaken the splices and connections.
The thermite was linked together and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube;
The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited by lasers (probably from WTC7).

Thanks!

Max

* * *

[pomeroo]

* * *

Tony Szamboti,


I would really appreciate it if you could give some input on the MAX-MIHOP ideas that:

Thermite was poured into perimeter box columns and spandrel splice gaps, and planted (wrapped in paper and black plastic) at the chords right by floor truss seats and gusset seats;
The function of planted thermite was not to cut, melt, or slice WTC steel, but to heat-weaken the splices and connections.
The thermite was linked together and ignited by thermite-dusted shock-tube;
The thermite-dusted shock-tube was ignited by lasers (probably from WTC7).Thanks!

Max

* * *



Poor Max--he's letting them see him sweat.

[Max Photon]

* * *

Gentle readers,

Since this thread discusses laser-ignited thermite-dusted shock-tube (used to ignite planted thermite), I thought that the following posts by Apollo20 would be useful here.

Ferd: Well, perhaps Max has been reading these... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3080885#post3080885)

Uruk: The research I mentioned on the laser... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3081374#post3081374)

Cheers!

Max

* * *

[uruk]

* * *

Uruk: The research I mentioned on the laser... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3081374#post3081374)

Cheers!

Max

* * *

I've read it. Here was my response. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3081532&postcount=129) Apollo never answered my questions to him.

[Max Photon]

* * *

Uruk,

In your response, it seems you are unclear on something:

The thermite-dusted shock-tube only need transmit the tiniest thermite spark to ignite 1 gram or 1000 kg of thermite.

Crazy Chainsaw has said several times that my theory is flawed because even the vibration of the towers could create a micro thermite spark that could set of planted thermite.

So I don't believe your line of thinking is correct when you ask if thermite-dusted shock-tube could generate sufficient heat to ignite planted thermite.

The thermite-dusted shock-tube need only transmit tiny thermite sparks.


Max

* * *

[Mr. Skinny]

* * *

Gentle readers,

Since this thread discusses laser-ignited thermite-dusted shock-tube (used to ignite planted thermite), I thought that the following posts by Apollo20 would be useful here.

Ferd: Well, perhaps Max has been reading these... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3080885#post3080885)

Uruk: The research I mentioned on the laser... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3081374#post3081374)

Cheers!

Max

* * *
Max,

It's not my desire to chase you around in two threads trying to get an answer, but if you can't offer up some specs on the supposed laser that ignited these TDST's, I'm going to assume you have no freakin' clue as to what thoses specs might be.

This will be my last request that you provide these specifications. If you are unable to produce same, then I think the readers of this thread will be free to toss the TDST theory on the junk pile as being unsupportable.

Cheers,

Skinny

[Max Photon]

Max,

It's not my desire to chase you around in two threads trying to get an answer, but if you can't offer up some specs on the supposed laser that ignited these TDST's, I'm going to assume you have no freakin' clue as to what thoses specs might be.

This will be my last request that you provide these specifications. If you are unable to produce same, then I think the readers of this thread will be free to toss the TDST theory on the junk pile as being unsupportable.

Cheers,

Skinny



They have been free all along.


* * *

[twinstead]

They have been free all along.


* * *

Ah...Duh!

[Mr. Skinny]

They have been free all along.


* * *
Evasion noted.

*crumples a TDST and throws it in the rubbish can o' theories*

[pomeroo]

Evasion noted.

*crumples a TDST and throws it in the rubbish can o' theories*



Yup, I believe that Doc Brown has delivered a concession speech.

[Mr. Skinny]

Yup, I believe that Doc Brown has delivered a concession speech.
Aye.

[Max Photon]

Evasion noted.

*crumples a TDST and throws it in the rubbish can o' theories*



I am not sure I follow the pin-headed logic.


Because I have not provided you with laser specs, wouldn't you throw out the laser ignition of thermite-dusted shock-tube?

After all, there are other ways to ignite it.


Furthermore, why would you throw out a hypothesis just because you don't have all the specs?


Please elaborate, Mr. Skinny, on what is prompting you to feel that thermite-dusted shock-tube is not even a possibility.


Max

* * *

[Bell]

They have been free all along.


* * *

Give us, us free.

[pomeroo]

I am not sure I follow the pin-headed logic.


Because I have not provided you with laser specs, wouldn't you throw out the laser ignition of thermite-dusted shock-tube?

After all, there are other ways to ignite it.


Furthermore, why would you throw out a hypothesis just because you don't have all the specs?


Please elaborate, Mr. Skinny, on what is prompting you to feel that thermite-dusted shock-tube is not even a possibility.


Max

* * *



The pin-headed logic is in positing a fantastic hypothesis with absolutely zero supporting evidence for something that has been explained far more parsimoniously.

[MIKILLINI]

I am not sure I follow the pin-headed logic.


Because I have not provided you with laser specs, wouldn't you throw out the laser ignition of thermite-dusted shock-tube?

After all, there are other ways to ignite it.


Furthermore, why would you throw out a hypothesis just because you don't have all the specs?


Please elaborate, Mr. Skinny, on what is prompting you to feel that thermite-dusted shock-tube is not even a possibility.


Max

* * *

Gee Max, what is prompting you not to give out laser specs?

[Max Photon]

Gee Max, what is prompting you not to give out laser specs?


Not having them.

Why would you think I would have laser specs?


* * *

[Max Photon]

* * *

Question:

Does Max Photon not having laser specs negate the possibility that:

Improvised thermite from the jets was used to create phreato-thermatic explosions?
Planted thermite was used to heat-weaken steel, and create "migrating fires"?
Thermite-dusted shock-tube linked and ignited the planted thermite?
Lasers ignited the thermite-dusted shock-tube?

If "yes" to any or all of the above, please explain.

Max

* * *

[pomeroo]

* * *

Question:

Does Max Photon not having laser specs negate the possibility that:

Improvised thermite from the jets was used to create phreato-thermatic explosions?
Planted thermite was used to heat-weaken steel, and create "migrating fires"?
Thermite-dusted shock-tube linked and ignited the planted thermite?
Lasers ignited the thermite-dusted shock-tube?If "yes" to any or all of the above, please explain.

Max

* * *


Why do you persist with these silly fantasies? I mean, seriously?

[MIKILLINI]

* * *

Question:

Does Max Photon not having laser specs negate the possibility that:

Improvised thermite from the jets was used to create phreato-thermatic explosions?
Planted thermite was used to heat-weaken steel, and create "migrating fires"?
Thermite-dusted shock-tube linked and ignited the planted thermite?
Lasers ignited the thermite-dusted shock-tube?

If "yes" to any or all of the above, please explain.

Max

* * *

I would answer yes to the questions above in a controlled and tested setting in a testing area. But when the test area becomes WTC's 1, 2, & 7, controlling civilian aircraft via remote, planting thermite dusted shock tube to cause the collapse of the towers by first firing the laser from the Salomon Brothers Building moments before the airliners crashed into the twin towers? Then all My answers to your questions above are...No!
It was a one time elaborate scenario with only one chance, Max. One chance to work all together to happen precisely as it was planned, just one shot for everything to go right. That means everything had to go right....Everything.

[uruk]

* * *

Uruk,

In your response, it seems you are unclear on something:

The thermite-dusted shock-tube only need transmit the tiniest thermite spark to ignite 1 gram or 1000 kg of thermite.

Crazy Chainsaw has said several times that my theory is flawed because even the vibration of the towers could create a micro thermite spark that could set of planted thermite.

So I don't believe your line of thinking is correct when you ask if thermite-dusted shock-tube could generate sufficient heat to ignite planted thermite.

The thermite-dusted shock-tube need only transmit tiny thermite sparks.


Max

* * *

Well what do you know Max. you got one right. I verified to my satisfaction that thermite can indeed be ignited by a metal spark.

Cudos to you Max.

In fact it does not have to be a thermite spark. You could even use the mixture used in sparklers.

Now all you have to do is find evidence that thermite was used to heat the steel.

[beachnut]

thermite-dusted shock-tube

Is this an orignal thing, by a truther?

[Mr. Skinny]

I am not sure I follow the pin-headed logic.
More arrogance. You dare to call me a pin-head, yet it is you throwing around fantasy theories.

I may decided to quit debating you if you can't remain civil, Max.


Because I have not provided you with laser specs, wouldn't you throw out the laser ignition of thermite-dusted shock-tube?
It's your claim, Max. You claim the TDST's were ignited by a laser. If you can't specify a laser that can do this task and reasonably be installed in WTC7, and reasonably have power supplies to complete the task, then yes - I will reject the entire theory. Weakest link in the chain and all that, ya know.

After all, there are other ways to ignite it.
That would be moving the goal posts, Max.


Furthermore, why would you throw out a hypothesis just because you don't have all the specs?
See above.


Please elaborate, Mr. Skinny, on what is prompting you to feel that thermite-dusted shock-tube is not even a possibility.
Didn't say that. (Well, except for that pesky lack o' evidence for thermite).

[jhunter1163]

(Well, except for that pesky lack o' evidence for thermite).

This means that the TDST is actually TOAST.

[Max Photon]

* * *

Uruk,

Thanks for the acknowledgment.

(I sense you are actually intrigued.)

- - -

Mr. Skinny,

"Pin-headed" was h-u-m-o-r.

(Revisit your avatar.)


As for "fantasy theories"...what are theories but fantasies? Am I missing something? What do you think NIST's finite element analysis produces, but fantasia?


Question:

Even if you don't believe the collapse initiation of the WTC towers was catalyzed, which collapse initiation model that exists is - in your estimation - the current best?

Remember, MAX-MIHOP provides both the collapse-initiation catalyzation process, AND the mechanisms for the necessary ongoing dynamic stabilization - or cloaking - of the deception.


So, if you had to chose one, which CD model is currently the best in the world?

(Good scientists would always have a second-best working hypothesis.)


* * *

[Mr. Skinny]

(snip)
Mr. Skinny,

"Pin-headed" was h-u-m-o-r.

(Revisit your avatar.)
Well, you made no reference to my avatar, and didn't use a smilie or anthing to indicate humor, so I naturally assumed you were being arrogant.


As for "fantasy theories"...what are theories but fantasies? Am I missing something? What do you think NIST's finite element analysis produces, but fantasia?

Question:

Even if you don't believe the collapse initiation of the WTC towers was catalyzed, which collapse initiation model that exists is - in your estimation - the current best?
An airliner slamming into the towers causing structural damage and massive fires which weakened the steel structure, resulting in collapse.

Remember, MAX-MIHOP provides both the collapse-initiation catalyzation process, AND the mechanisms for the necessary ongoing dynamic stabilization - or cloaking - of the deception.


So, if you had to chose one, which CD model is currently the best in the world?

(Good scientists would always have a second-best working hypothesis.)


* * *
I don't think any of the current CD models are worth a darn. I admit I kinda enjoyed your laser ignited TDST theory because it was so different, and because I used to find you mildly amusing, but now that theory is on the garbage pile with the rest. You can't support your own theory, so I'm going to give it the attention it deserves - None.