Susan McElwein Interview

[beachnut]

distraction, is that a required course for JREF members?
Are, lack of facts, illogical thinking, irrational thoughts, and shoddy research a requirement for 9/11 truth members?

[uk_dave]

The 12 identifications that Wallace Miller made were by way of fingerprints and dental records. Strange that you didn't know that, since you've specialized in this subject for a year.

So what can Wallace Miller tell you or show you that will make you believe that the body parts and personal effects he found and identified came from flight 93?

What will it take to change your mind, TC?

Quoted, just in case TC missed it first time around. After all, we wouldn't want to jump to any premature conclusions about TC avoiding a question now, would we?

[pomeroo]

If you want to avoid spin then watch the video. I deliberately didnt give my opinion in the opening post so you could make your own mind up.

I'm going out on a limb here and making the prediction that the "skeptics" here will just accuse her of lying or being confused.




I'm going out on a limb here and making the observation that lots of people have noticed you ducking from thread to thread. I showed you why your imaginary conspiracy is impossible. Why do you persist in promoting these silly fantasies?

[Unfit4Command]

Oh yeah?

Who told you that?

Ever been to New Baltimore?

No, I've never been to New Baltimore. Perhaps, "a few" was an understatement. I've read news articles about what type of debris was found in the city, none of it large based on the stories.

"A second debris field was around Indian Lake about 3 miles from the crash scene. Some debris was in the lake and some was adjacent to the lake.
More debris from the plane was found in New Baltimore, some 8 miles away from the crash.

State police and the FBI initially said they didn't want to speculate whether the debris was from the crash, or if the plane could have broken up in midair.

Investigators later said the debris was all very light material, such as paper and thin nylon the wind would easily blow. The wind was blowing towards Indian Lake and New Baltimore at 9 knots. "According to the NTSB, it is not only possible that the debris is from the crash, it is probable," Crowley said."
http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/penn.attack/


"The village of New Baltimore is a dozen or more miles by automobile but eight as the wind blows, which it was doing a year ago. Melanie Hankinson was at the church next to her home, transfixed before a television that showed the World Trade Center ablaze, when the man who sprays her lawn stopped by to tell her he was finding odd things in the weeds.

"He said there was a loud bang and smoke and then these papers started blowing through your yard," she said. "I said, 'Oh.' Then I went back to the TV." Then the parish priest, the Rev. Allen Zeth, told her an airplane had crashed in Shanksville.

For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports.

"And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner."
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020911roddy0911p5.asp



"Three-year-old Hunter Stoe was helping his father, Andy, with the trash Wednesday night when he spied a slip of paper on the grass near the trash can.

When Andy Stoe glanced at the paper, ready to toss it in the trash, he saw it was a charred payroll check made out to Antonio B. Costa of San Jose, Calif.

Investigators now concede the canceled check and a portion of a charred brokerage statement Stoe found nearby on Thursday afternoon are from the crash."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html

[TC329]

Quoted, just in case TC missed it first time around. After all, we wouldn't want to jump to any premature conclusions about TC avoiding a question now, would we?

reply #243

[uk_dave]

reply #243

question #245

[Gravy]

reply #243Why are you afraid to answer the question?

What will it take to make you believe that the remains and personal effects came from flight 93?

[ref]

TC, I already asked you this on page 6.

You said there were 2 fighters and 1 UAV at the scene at the exact time. You also said, that Johnstown ATC is not allowed to talk about it.

Who says there were 2 fighters, who says Johnstown ATC are not allowed to talk about something?

[T.A.M.]

Somehow I knew you wouldn't. "Skeptics" never want to get into Ed Felt's phone call or westmoreland county 911.

Ever hear of Jim Stop? He was fishing on Indian Lake when "Flight 93" flew over him "breaking up" in the air. And do you know what Indian Lake residents did that morning? They called 911 as well to report a "low flying plane breaking up over their homes."

Pittsburgh Tribune Review 9/13/1

look it up.....

Well I am doing just that, as I will only take a cached or archived version of the original as proof, not someones cherry picking or misquotes.

As a result, I have gone to the site of the paper...here is a list of all the articles in the "Terrorism" section for 9/13/2001. The rest of the paper has no articles related to witnesses...now, here is the list...


Terrorism
Hopes dim as investigators search for 'black box'
Students question U.S. history in making
Disaster scene awes firefighters
Mom fears daughter died in blast
Local students to show patriotism
Local travel agents say fear runs high
Local volunteers rush to destruction scene
Irwin dentist joins forensic team at site
Human remains recovered in Somerset
Local physician may be linked to attack
Victim was 'great father'
Anxious students seek answers
Local family mourns victim
Old Glory flies off shelves in Washington
Personal security concerns grow
American flags show nation's true colors
Experts: Pilots could do little
Tales of heroism survive wreck
Skies open; still waiting at the airport
Former Marine helps in rescue
Local man loses sister, mother in towers attack
Program at WVU offers 'game plan' when disaster strikes
AGH surgeon volunteers in NYC
School attendance returns to normal
Goverment gets back to business
Man under investigation trained at AGH
Company rushes to rescue sites with equipment
Lawmakers call for widespread changes in national security measures
Thousands line up for blood banks
Pittsburgh back at work
The world reacts: Excerpts from major newspapers
Neighbors seek comfort in prayer
New Yorkers show mixture of grief, resiliency
Veteran: Worse than D-Day
Security overhaul under way at airport
Investigators find data recorder
David Kovalcin, 1976 Norwin grad, remembered for punctuality
Airport security called weak
CMU robot helping at crash site
Hopes dim in search for recorder
‘Heroes’ attempted to thwart terrorists
Experts: Pilots could do little to stop hijacking
Neighbors seek comfort in prayer


Any idea which article?

When I look up "Jim Stop" on google, the only thing I found from that paper, that was an actual article from the paper is this...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12942.html

Which is an article from 9/12/2001
Where I find this quote, the only time Mr. Stop is mentioned in it...


Jim Stop of Somerset was fishing at the Indian Lake marina, about three miles from the crash site, when he looked up and saw the plane overhead.

“I heard the engine whine and scream,” Stop said.

He then heard an explosion and saw a fireball.

Now please tell me, you are not extrapolating from the above quote that he saw the plane "break up" overhead? Please tell me you are not doing that?

Now I will go through them all, as it is a great educational tool, but it would be easier if you simply told me which one of these articles, few of which from their title, would have this ADDITIONAL Quote from Mr. Stop that you have mentioned.

Thanks

TAM:)

[uk_dave]

Who says there were 2 fighters, who says Johnstown ATC are not allowed to talk about something?

Probably the same person who said this......

The Mossad detonated truck bombs inside the sublevels on 9/11.
They detonated them outside the complex.
2 were arrested attempting to flee the van they painted a mural on of an airplane diving into NY and exploding.
3 Mossad were seen filming both attacks on the towers and celebrating them.
They were arrested.
Another van was stopped that had Mossad trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge....


http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13182

No prizes for guessing who

[TC329]

Why are you afraid to answer the question?

What will it take to make you believe that the remains and personal effects came from flight 93?


I'm not, I did.

The personal effects belonged to the people who were on the plane destroyed on 9/11. To the best of my none of the planes on 9/11 have been positively identified.

If you have positive identification (i.e. something with a serial number) that confirms this flight was indeed UA93 I would love to see it.

Now let's talk about Ed Felt, John Shaw, Glenn Cramer, West Moreland County. Afraid to Gravy?

[TC329]

TC, I already asked you this on page 6.

You said there were 2 fighters and 1 UAV at the scene at the exact time. You also said, that Johnstown ATC is not allowed to talk about it.

Who says there were 2 fighters, who says Johnstown ATC are not allowed to talk about something?

Who says there were 2 fighters? Susan McElwain and other residents.

Who says there was an UAV? Susan McElwain, Dale Browning, Robin Duppstadt, John Fleegle, Jim Brandt, Lee Purbaugh, Dennis Decker, Ruth Ann Fisher, Robert Blair, and on and on and on and on.....

And I said Johnstown Air Traffic Control isn't allowed to talk about it because I spoke with them.

[TC329]

Well I am doing just that, as I will only take a cached or archived version of the original as proof, not someones cherry picking or misquotes.

As a result, I have gone to the site of the paper...here is a list of all the articles in the "Terrorism" section for 9/13/2001. The rest of the paper has no articles related to witnesses...now, here is the list...



Any idea which article?

When I look up "Jim Stop" on google, the only thing I found from that paper, that was an actual article from the paper is this...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12942.html

Which is an article from 9/12/2001
Where I find this quote, the only time Mr. Stop is mentioned in it...



Now please tell me, you are not extrapolating from the above quote that he saw the plane "break up" overhead? Please tell me you are not doing that?

Now I will go through them all, as it is a great educational tool, but it would be easier if you simply told me which one of these articles, few of which from their title, would have this ADDITIONAL Quote from Mr. Stop that you have mentioned.

Thanks

TAM:)


I hope you didn't get exhausted doing all that research....

This took 30 seconds to find:
Pittsburgh Tribune Review (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_47536.html)

Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."

"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said.

Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.

[TC329]

Probably the same person who said this......



http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13182

No prizes for guessing who


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVDCzymSTw8

Feel free to start a seperate thread Dave. I would love to see you debunk this.....especially multiple reports about the guys being stopped with the truck load of explosives on the George Washington Bridge.

[ref]

Who says there were 2 fighters? Susan McElwain and other residents.

Who says there was an UAV? Susan McElwain, Dale Browning, Robin Duppstadt, John Fleegle, Jim Brandt, Lee Purbaugh, Dennis Decker, Ruth Ann Fisher, Robert Blair, and on and on and on and on.....

And I said Johnstown Air Traffic Control isn't allowed to talk about it because I spoke with them.

Other residents? Could you be more specific?

The UAV wouldn't happen to be a Dassault Falcon 20 business jet or an unarmed C-130 cargo plane?

About Johnstown ATC. What did they say to you, or what did you say to them?

[T.A.M.]

TC:

Here is the full quote:


Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."

"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said.

Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.

As yet, there have been no official reports of any human remains recovered from the lake area.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_47536.html

Now, if we look at it we see two sentences, which you are stating are intimately related, but may not be...maybe you should interview him for clarification (ya like you will ask him non leading questions right?).

1.Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he
was fishing.

2. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.

First of all, this is the reporters account of what Jim said. I see no quotes indicating his direct words within these two sentences.

Secondly, What the reporter tells us is that Jim saw the plane, which he says was a 757, fly overhead. The reporter then tells us that Jim saw parts falling from the plane. He doesnt say at what point, or what parts. He doesnt mention smoke or any of the like coming from it prior to crashing...how come...if a missile hit it, wouldnt their be smoke coming from it?

TAM:)

[TC329]

TC:

Here is the full quote:



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_47536.html

Now, if we look at it we see two sentences, which you are stating are intimately related, but may not be...maybe you should interview him for clarification (ya like you will ask him non leading questions right?).

1.Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he
was fishing.

2. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.

First of all, this is the reporters account of what Jim said. I see no quotes indicating his direct words within these two sentences.

Secondly, What the reporter tells us is that Jim saw the plane, which he says was a 757, fly overhead. The reporter then tells us that Jim saw parts falling from the plane. He doesnt say at what point, or what parts. He doesnt mention smoke or any of the like coming from it prior to crashing...how come...if a missile hit it, wouldnt their be smoke coming from it?

TAM:)

There is also a report about Indian Lake residents making 911 calls about a low flying plane "breaking up over their homes."

Obviously as Indian Lake is over 2 miles away, Jim saw the plane breaking apart in the air.

And most likely there would be smoke coming from the plane, please reference Ed Felt's phone call which I have brought up numerous times to your disliking.

[T.A.M.]

How can you say I dislike the subject. Do you always take someone not addressing your issues as not liking it. Personally, off the top of my head, I only remember that he made it via a cellphone from the lavatory, at about 5000 feet elevation, just prior to the crash...that is all, off the top of my head that I remember...

Please, so that you will quit nagging, what do you want to say about it.

JHC

TAM:)

[Civilized Worm]

"critical thinking"


I suppose it would have been to much to ask for an answer in the form of a coherant sentence.

[uk_dave]

About Johnstown ATC. What did they say to you, or what did you say to them?



Yeah, I'm curious about this too.

TC, what PRECISELY were their words to you? What is the name of the person you spoke to?

Oh, and with regard to your fantasy about truck bombs, please provide the names of the officers who stopped the trucks, their written reports, photographs and a transcript of your interview with the officers.

Cheers

[DGM]

There is also a report about Indian Lake residents making 911 calls about a low flying plane "breaking up over their homes."

Obviously as Indian Lake is over 2 miles away, Jim saw the plane breaking apart in the air.

And most likely there would be smoke coming from the plane, please reference Ed Felt's phone call which I have brought up numerous times to your disliking.
TC:
Do you believe that the FDR on flight 93 was faked? For his report to be true it would have to be.

[Gravy]

Third time, TC. Why are you afraid to answer this question?

You are going to meet with Wallace Miller. What will it take to make you believe that the remains and personal effects came from flight 93?

Don't be a little baby. Be a man and answer it.

[Gravy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVDCzymSTw8

Feel free to start a seperate thread Dave. I would love to see you debunk this.....especially multiple reports about the guys being stopped with the truck load of explosives on the George Washington Bridge.No such thing happened. Debunked.

[uk_dave]

No such thing happened. Debunked.

But...but....but....the VIDEO! Youtube!! It MUST have happened!!111!11!

[TC329]

How can you say I dislike the subject. Do you always take someone not addressing your issues as not liking it. Personally, off the top of my head, I only remember that he made it via a cellphone from the lavatory, at about 5000 feet elevation, just prior to the crash...that is all, off the top of my head that I remember...

Please, so that you will quit nagging, what do you want to say about it.

JHC

TAM:)


Edward Felt reported an explosion and white smoke coming from the plane and said they were going down.

Jim Stop saw a plane flying low over Indian Lake "breaking up" in the air.

Numerous Indian Lake residents made 911 calls about a 'low flying plane breaking up over their homes.'

There was some sort of highly classified United States Predator/Global Hawk type Unmanned Aerial Vehicle.

There was a debris field in Indian Lake.

There was a debris field in Shanksville.

There was a debris field in New Baltimore.

There were 2 fighter jets at the scene at the time along with the UAV and "UA93".

Westmoreland County 911 Operators have gag orders.

Johnstown ATC has gag orders.

There was nearly a mile between engine #1 & engine #2.

And now apply some critical thinking.

[twinstead]

Edward Felt reported an explosion and white smoke coming from the plane and said they were going down.

Jim Stop saw a plane flying low over Indian Lake "breaking up" in the air.

Numerous Indian Lake residents made 911 calls about a 'low flying plane breaking up over their homes.'

There was some sort of highly classified United States Predator/Global Hawk type Unmanned Aerial Vehicle.

There was a debris field in Indian Lake.

There was a debris field in Shanksville.

There was a debris field in New Baltimore.

There were 2 fighter jets at the scene at the time along with the UAV and "UA93".

Westmoreland County 911 Operators have gag orders.

Johnstown ATC has gag orders.

There was nearly a mile between engine #1 & engine #2.

And now apply some critical thinking.



Have you ever gone over those claims, point-by-point, and applied the same 'critical thinking' that you demand we use to THEM? Here's a good question to ask any intrepid investigator: What is the official explanation for each of those points?

It is easy to address those points; my issue is with your willingness to accept them no questions asked.

[TC329]

Third time, TC. Why are you afraid to answer this question?

You are going to meet with Wallace Miller. What will it take to make you believe that the remains and personal effects came from flight 93?

Don't be a little baby. Be a man and answer it.

I believe Wally Miller recovered DNA. The Shanksville debris field was scattered nearly 4 miles. The story that 90% of the plane was pulled out of a 30x20x10' (UA93 Ambassador's Official Crater Dimensions Recorded on Film) crater is BS.

DNA was also recovered from Indian Lake and New Baltimore.

I believe the plane Ed Felt was on was shot down.

I haven't not yet seen anything that positively ID's this plane as UA93 to date. The crater appears to be too small for a 757.

Now please tell me what plane flew over Susan McElwain.

[Corsair 115]

There was some sort of highly classified United States Predator/Global Hawk type Unmanned Aerial Vehicle.Those two UAVs are not that classified, since you can easily find basic data on them with a bit of internet searching. It might be useful to compare the dimensions and capabilities of those two UAVs - the Predator is slow and small, the Global Hawk has a relatively small fuselage but a large wingspan designed for high-altitude flight.

Why on Earth the military would be testing some sort of new UAV out where regular folks could easily spot it? That doesn't make much sense - there are purpose-designed airbases where such testing can be conducted in secret.

[stateofgrace]

Edward Felt reported an explosion and white smoke coming from the plane and said they were going down.

Jim Stop saw a plane flying low over Indian Lake "breaking up" in the air.

Numerous Indian Lake residents made 911 calls about a 'low flying plane breaking up over their homes.'

There was some sort of highly classified United States Predator/Global Hawk type Unmanned Aerial Vehicle.

There was a debris field in Indian Lake.

There was a debris field in Shanksville.

There was a debris field in New Baltimore.

There were 2 fighter jets at the scene at the time along with the UAV and "UA93".

Westmoreland County 911 Operators have gag orders.

Johnstown ATC has gag orders.

There was nearly a mile between engine #1 & engine #2.

And now apply some critical thinking.


Shoot down or Faked plane crash site? Which one?

[T.A.M.]

Edward Felt reported an explosion and white smoke coming from the plane and said they were going down.

Jim Stop saw a plane flying low over Indian Lake "breaking up" in the air.

Numerous Indian Lake residents made 911 calls about a 'low flying plane breaking up over their homes.'

There was some sort of highly classified United States Predator/Global Hawk type Unmanned Aerial Vehicle.

There was a debris field in Indian Lake.

There was a debris field in Shanksville.

There was a debris field in New Baltimore.

There were 2 fighter jets at the scene at the time along with the UAV and "UA93".

Westmoreland County 911 Operators have gag orders.

Johnstown ATC has gag orders.

There was nearly a mile between engine #1 & engine #2.

And now apply some critical thinking.


Edward Felt may have experienced in those final seconds the break up of the plane, as it twisted and dove into the earth. Are you telling me that there is no way that the manuevering of the plane itself could not have caused loud noises, and smoke aboard the plane in the final seconds prior to the crash?

You have no proof of this alleged vehicle. No photos, no legal documents confirming it was there do you? You have descriptions that lead you to believe it was this type of vehicle, correct?

Change "debris field" to "debris" and I am happy with the three locations you mention.

Please present your evidence of the fighter jets and the UAV...I don't recall it...even a link to it would be nice.

A mile is 1600 yards or more. Please prove to me where authorities have stated that the distance between the two engines of UA93 was this distance.

Please show me written proof, or an OFFICIALS STATEMENT that says there was an official GAG order given to those institutions you mention.

Thanks

TAM:)

[LashL]

There is also a report about Indian Lake residents making 911 calls about a low flying plane "breaking up over their homes."

Evidence, please.

Obviously as Indian Lake is over 2 miles away, Jim saw the plane breaking apart in the air.


You cannot logically make that leap without more. No matter how well it suits your fantasy world to do so.

And most likely there would be smoke coming from the plane, please reference Ed Felt's phone call which I have brought up numerous times to your disliking.

Yet none of the witnesses you have referenced say that there was smoke coming from the plane. What do you make of that?

Yeah, I'm curious about this too.

TC, what PRECISELY were their words to you? What is the name of the person you spoke to?

Oh, and with regard to your fantasy about truck bombs, please provide the names of the officers who stopped the trucks, their written reports, photographs and a transcript of your interview with the officers.

Cheers

I, too, am interested in this. Terrorcell, why are you avoiding these questions?

Edward Felt reported an explosion and white smoke coming from the plane and said they were going down.

Yes, he did. But it appears that no other reports - from onboard the plane or from the ground - corroborate Mr. Felt's account. It is possible that he was simply mistaken, or that the person to whom he was speaking misheard or misunderstood him. It is also possible that there was a loud noise that he described as an "explosion" and that there was some kind of white smoke that he saw, neither of which would be surprising in the final moments of a deliberate nose-down crashing of a large airliner at high speed. Unfortunately, everyone on the airplane died in the crash, so it is unlikely that we will ever know for certain what Mr. Felt was describing or whether it was accurate.

As an aside, since there are no Airfones in the lavatories, can I take it that you are not a proponent of the "cell phones don't work on airplanes" CT, since you accept Mr. Felt's cell phone call as legitimate?

Jim Stop saw a plane flying low over Indian Lake "breaking up" in the air.

Those are the not the words attributed to him in the link you posted previously. If he did not use those words, you should stop attributing them to him in quotation marks. If he did use those words, you should provide evidence of same.

Numerous Indian Lake residents made 911 calls about a 'low flying plane breaking up over their homes.'

As above. You keep using those words in quotation marks but you have not provided any source that attributes those words to any particular individual.

Westmoreland County 911 Operators have gag orders.

Evidence, please. You have been asked for this repeatedly and you have not yet provided any.

Johnstown ATC has gag orders.

Evidence, please. As above, you have been asked for this repeatedly and you have not yet provided any.

There was nearly a mile between engine #1 & engine #2.

Evidence, please.

And now apply some critical thinking.

Once you provide some evidence for your claims, there will be something substantive to discuss. So, get to it.

DNA was also recovered from Indian Lake and New Baltimore.

Evidence, please.

[Gravy]

I believe the plane Ed Felt was on was shot down.So where did it crash, "researcher?"

Fourth time: what evidence will make you believe that flight 93 crashed near Shanksville?

Also, do you believe that Wallace Miller identified 12 flight 93 passengers through fingerprints and dental records, or do you believe he is lying?

Don't be a fearful little baby. Be a man and answer the questions.

[T.A.M.]

LashL:

For the record, this is the quote he is referring to wrt the alleged plane "breaking up" in the sky....


Meanwhile, investigators also are combing a second crime scene in nearby Indian Lake, where residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner flying over at a low altitude before "falling apart on their homes."

"People were calling in and reporting pieces of plane falling," a state trooper said.

Jim Stop reported he had seen the hijacked Boeing 757 fly over him as he was fishing. He said he could see parts falling from the plane.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_47536.html

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

I suspect the reporter has worded his tale poorly, as it probably should have read...

"residents reported hearing the doomed jetliner fly over head just prior to it crashing and subsequently raining down in little bits atop their homes..."

but maybe I am wrong. The only way to know for sure is to talk to the reporter, and/or those he spoke with.

TAM:)

[R.Mackey]

I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Felt was witnessing condensation off of the wings or control surfaces, not actual smoke. The plane was being flown at absurdly high speeds and beyond the envelope of its performance.

The debris field is consistent with an intact CFIT, as is the FDR. Mid-air breakup also should have been spotted on radar. Didn't happen. Next claim, please.

[Gravy]

I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Felt was witnessing condensation off of the wings or control surfaces, not actual smoke. The plane was being flown at absurdly high speeds and beyond the envelope of its performance.It's unknown if Felt meant smoke inside or outside the plane. If inside, it may have been a fire extinguisher. I've read that the extinguishers used in those planes make a loud pop when activated.

[Corsair 115]

A mile is 1600 yards or more. [Nitpick alert]

A statute mile is 1,760 yards. A nautical mile is slightly over 2,025 yards.

[/Nitpick alert]

[TC329]

Shoot down or Faked plane crash site? Which one?


Well for Ed Felt to be reporting an explosion and white smoke on a plane and Indian Lake residents reporting a plane breaking up on their houses, and a 8 mile debris field and 3 other planes........

I'm sure you can make your decision.

[TC329]

Edward Felt may have experienced in those final seconds the break up of the plane, as it twisted and dove into the earth. Are you telling me that there is no way that the manuevering of the plane itself could not have caused loud noises, and smoke aboard the plane in the final seconds prior to the crash?

:jaw-dropp You are theorizing Felt was reporting what was happening in the front of the plane while it is slamming into the ground at 500MPH from the back of the plane?

:eek:

Really?

:eye-poppi

You have no proof of this alleged vehicle. No photos, no legal documents confirming it was there do you? You have descriptions that lead you to believe it was this type of vehicle, correct?

Eyewitnesses are proof. Like when an eyewitness testifies to seeing Person A shoot Person B that is considered PROOF.

I have eyewitness accounts. Like when an eyewitness desribes a murderer as being 6'3", 200 pds, caucasian, blonde hair, blue eyes, and a tattoo across his face saying "killer".

Change "debris field" to "debris" and I am happy with the three locations you mention.

No, they're debris fields. I've spoken with people. They sectioned off a real big area in New Baltimore.

Please present your evidence of the fighter jets and the UAV...I don't recall it...even a link to it would be nice.

I will present all the evidence when it is all compiled. This is still an ongoing investigation.

A mile is 1600 yards or more. Please prove to me where authorities have stated that the distance between the two engines of UA93 was this distance.

Can you seriously look up anything on your own?


Please show me written proof, or an OFFICIALS STATEMENT that says there was an official GAG order given to those institutions you mention.

Thanks

TAM:)

You're funny.

[Gravy]

Fifth time, TC329: what evidence will make you believe that flight 93 crashed near Shanksville?

Also, do you believe that Wallace Miller identified 12 flight 93 passengers through fingerprints and dental records, or do you believe he is lying?

Why are you unable to answer these simple questions? Is honesty really that difficult for you?

[TC329]

So where did it crash, "researcher?"

Fourth time: what evidence will make you believe that flight 93 crashed near Shanksville?

Also, do you believe that Wallace Miller identified 12 flight 93 passengers through fingerprints and dental records, or do you believe he is lying?

Don't be a fearful little baby. Be a man and answer the questions.

1) Indian Lake/Shanksville/New Baltimore

2) I just need proof that it is UA93. It's called positive identification.

3) I believe Wally Miller identified 12 people and still has 3 caskets of unidentifiable remains.

You're funny Mark. You tack your little snide comment onto the end of each post as if you are some sort of authoritative. But we all know you're a sock.

[T.A.M.]

1. What do loud noises and smoke have to do with the FRONT OF THE PLANE?
2. Don't patronize me, I am well aware of what witness testimony is. After I used the word proof, I then explained further, that I was speaking of physical evidence and documentation.
3. Ok, if you wish to call them debris fields because they were marked off, fine, call them that, but it does not change what was found within those fields...please enlighten us on what was found in each.
4. Don't flatter yourself. You are a guy with a camera and a microphone.
5. I can, and have looked up lots of things on my own, but when you make an argument, it is up to you to provide the evidence, the proof, not me.
6. Thank you, I do consider myself to be skilled in the art of humor.

Nice to see you back on the net again after what must have been a long and exhausting investigative stint.

TAM:)

[TC329]

1. What do loud noises and smoke have to do with the FRONT OF THE PLANE?

I'm not talking about noises. I'm talking about your theory that Felt was making his call while the plane was driving into the ground at 500+MPH.

2. Don't patronize me, I am well aware of what witness testimony is. After I used the word proof, I then explained further, that I was speaking of physical evidence and documentation.

I thought you needed a refresher course. Considering the physical proof is fenced off or deep inside Iron Mountain I have to use eyewitness testimony in hopes that their accounts can open a new investigation making the physical evidence accessible. Let's be realist here. You don't just show up at Iron Mountain and ask to see it.

3. Ok, if you wish to call them debris fields because they were marked off, fine, call them that, but it does not change what was found within those fields...please enlighten us on what was found in each.

Plane Debris.

4. Don't flatter yourself. You are a guy with a camera and a microphone.

Who gets off of his ass and goes ask the people who were actually there. Your sentence was incomplete.

5. I can, and have looked up lots of things on my own, but when you make an argument, it is up to you to provide the evidence, the proof, not me.

This is common knowledge ask Mark about the distance between the engines.

6. Thank you, I do consider myself to be skilled in the art of humor.

Nice to see you back on the net again after what must have been a long and exhausting investigative stint.

TAM:)

Yeah, You're like a pleasant prick.

:)

[TC329]

Fifth evasion noted. You're a rare breed, TC. Good luck with that issue.

Now I can use the "hide threads for people on your ignore list." Rev91 started this thread and I've had to keep it open until I got a response from our very scared friend.

Refer back to post #291 the one you skipped again. You are not a rare breed Mark, not at all....

[A W Smith]

Error cell. provide a google earth snapshot marked up with these supposed "fenced off" debris areas. So we can identify the horses.

[fuelair]

If you want to avoid spin then watch the video. I deliberately didnt give my opinion in the opening post so you could make your own mind up.

I'm going out on a limb here and making the prediction that the "skeptics" here will just accuse her of lying or being confused.
One of the things I do for a living from time to time is help students and others make videos. One of my critique methods in the early stages (except when starting with completely inexperienced students) is to stop the process of observation at the first point any reasonable person would stop watching , explain why to the student, and have student fix that problem. In all the CT films/videos I have seen, this point comes early on and I stop watching - that includes this one. Simple rule for advocacy filming(and most other informational production):A)Script, shoot and edit well - you are not trying to showcase you or your skills, you are trying to get people to pay attention to your point. B)Tell audience what you will cover (entertainingly), cover it, tell them what you covered. What is fun/neat for you is likely wasted for the audience of this kind of production.

And, when YOU want people to get information YOU want them to have, do not expect them to waste time (not their job no matter what the topic). If you cannot quote the important material and must send to the source, say exactly where you want them to look for the exact point.
ost of us are not going through 40 minutes of some crap shooter video (I do not mean dice here) to catch a sentence you want us to hear - we have a real life.