Salvia

[articulett]

Has anyone here tried Salvia? I've heard that this is a safe, legal hallucinogen.

Does anyone know anything about it?

[Formerly]

Has anyone here tried Salvia? I've heard that this is a safe, legal hallucinogen.

Does anyone know anything about it?

It's not one that produces *intense* hallucinations in a lot of people - tastes awful if you go the chewing method - and burns very hot if you go the smoking method (and cooling the smoke supposedly kills the substances that cause the effects)

Just like with anything else you would put into your body, do a *lot* of reading and research before taking it.

[TheDoLittle]

Finally!! It all makes sense!! Browne is a hallucinogenic drug!!

Salvia Browne - from psychic phenomena to psychotropic experience.

Retails for $750, and you must wait 6 months to receive your trip.

Go on rides like not receiving your English diploma, and not finding missing people near bodies of water.

At least they'll be no insects during your dream.

[Drudgewire]

If you choose to go that route, BE ABSOLUTELY SURE you have a "spotter." It's very intense and if you don't have someone to remind you that you're under the effects of a drug it can be horrifying.

It's not like LSD or X where you get a lot of visuals, you literally are in a different plane of existence (I thought I was falling off the planet. When I started to come down I was grasping on to my bed with all my might.)

My take? Stay away. Acid is much more fun.

[calebprime]

If you choose to go that route, BE ABSOLUTELY SURE you have a "spotter." It's very intense and if you don't have someone to remind you that you're under the effects of a drug it can be horrifying.

It's not like LSD or X where you get a lot of visuals, you literally are in a different plane of existence (I thought I was falling off the planet. When I started to come down I was grasping on to my bed with all my might.)

My take? Stay away. Acid is much more fun.

More or less agree.

I'll tell my Salvia story for the third time on this forum.

But first, note that it's chemically different from LSD, etc., and it has a completely different subjective feel.

In small doses, it causes a mild euphoria, nothing much.

About 5 or 6 years ago, I got a supply from the smoke shop around the corner. Cost around $20.

I smoked some by myself. A mistake. I thought nothing was happening, so I smoked too much. A mistake.

One moment I was standing there complaining that nothing was going on. The next moment, it was as if I passed through a membrane into some other world. (Like being swallowed by the ball thingy in The Prisoner.)

I felt myself to be in some kind of chamber surrounded by intelligent, but slightly hostile beings. It was like the JREF forum. (But this was before I had ever been on any on-line forums.)

They actually said, "Welcome." (This was an absolutely vivid auditory hallucination--but not like the buzz from mushrooms. It seemed completely real.)

I started to panic.

The "beings" said "Going so soon?".

Then, maybe 30 seconds later, I was standing there, sweating and feeling slightly nauseous, wanting to smack myself for being such an idiot. There was no residual effect other than some nausea and feeling like a moron.

The mistake I made was thinking the effect would come on like weed or mushrooms. This was completely different.

The only benefit was being able to imagine how people who hear voices must feel--it must seem completely real to them, and frightening, sometimes.

So it's a strange choice for a recreational drug, and not something I was especially eager to keep doing.

[Boo]

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml


One of the more reliable and balanced sources of information.



Boo

[articulett]

Finally!! It all makes sense!! Browne is a hallucinogenic drug!!

Salvia Browne - from psychic phenomena to psychotropic experience.

Retails for $750, and you must wait 6 months to receive your trip.

Go on rides like not receiving your English diploma, and not finding missing people near bodies of water.

At least they'll be no insects during your dream.

Yeah, but the drug leaves your wallet fatter and some people have profoundly good experiences that give them a warm afterglow.

[articulett]

If you are prone to paranoia on pot, is that the same as Salvia. How much is a good amount to take just to try it? How long does it take to kick in, and how long does it last?

I'll read more. I've never had a hallucinogen. I've seen bad trips of people on mushrooms and I'm afraid of LSD. I tried ecstasy once before it was illegal, but I threw up and it was too much of a stimulant...I did not have a good experience--the only hallucination I felt was that "time was like droplets"--moments seemed unconnected instead of flowing from one to the next. I enjoy nitrous oxide at the dentist, but it gives me a headache.

My son had heard about it and asked me what I knew. I think they sell it at a hookah lounge here. (Something in the "menu" says "ask about the "good stuff"...and it's the only "good stuff" I can think of that is legal.)

So, if you take the stuff...your spotter should not take it, right? And is there a way to lessen the high if it's too intense or scary? How long did your experience(s) last and did you know it right away when it kicked in? Do you think it's a good idea to be a spotter before you try it? How much is a good amount to start with, via what method?

I appreciate the input.

I trust that JREF members are more articulate and are more likely to have experiences that would be similar to mine.

I think I'd like to try it (before it becomes illegal).

[sinclairmcevoy]

I recently listened to a talk show on this. Tryer beware. To achieve optimal effects, 1 gram smoked in 3 mins. Dried leaves can be purchased with a 10 or 20 x concentrate added so only a small amount is needed. Like others have said, be prepared. Slipping sideways into another dimension was one description. Let us know if you make it back.....

[calebprime]

If you are prone to paranoia on pot, is that the same as Salvia. How much is a good amount to take just to try it? How long does it take to kick in, and how long does it last?

I'll read more. I've never had a hallucinogen. I've seen bad trips of people on mushrooms and I'm afraid of LSD. I tried ecstasy once before it was illegal, but I threw up and it was too much of a stimulant...I did not have a good experience--the only hallucination I felt was that "time was like droplets"--moments seemed unconnected instead of flowing from one to the next. I enjoy nitrous oxide at the dentist, but it gives me a headache.

My son had heard about it and asked me what I knew. I think they sell it at a hookah lounge here. (Something in the "menu" says "ask about the "good stuff"...and it's the only "good stuff" I can think of that is legal.)

So, if you take the stuff...your spotter should not take it, right? And is there a way to lessen the high if it's too intense or scary? How long did your experience(s) last and did you know it right away when it kicked in? Do you think it's a good idea to be a spotter before you try it? How much is a good amount to start with, via what method?

I appreciate the input.

I trust that JREF members are more articulate and are more likely to have experiences that would be similar to mine.

I think I'd like to try it (before it becomes illegal).

It's completely unlike cannabis, and completely unlike acid or mushrooms.
So you wouldn't be able to predict based on those experiences.

The effect sneaks up on you. One minute nothing, the next minute, you're someplace else.

It seemed to cause no sensory enhancement at all.

In smaller amounts, it seemed to cause a sort of "aerial view" effect--looking at things or yourself, from a height.

Best description--a waking dream with full audio track (provided by your own brain). An absolutely vivid sense of contacting other beings. Little hangover or aftereffects.

not a drug for enjoying eating, or enjoying sex, or making/listening to music, or getting much work done...

Have a spotter who's sober, and decide before-hand whether you want the full out-of-body experience or the mild dissociation.

[Drudgewire]

If you are prone to paranoia on pot, is that the same as Salvia. How much is a good amount to take just to try it? How long does it take to kick in, and how long does it last?

I wouldn't know about parallels to pot for everyone, but I never get paranoid from weed. This scared the bejeezus out of me.

I'd definitely start with a low 5x mix. I tried that in a one hitter and did nothing. Then I did 25x with a bowl full and that's what sent me to the moon.

It doesn't last long. Maybe 5 to 10 minutes on the trip then coming down took like 15 minutes.

I think I'd like to try it (before it becomes illegal).

Yeah, that's why I did it. For what it's worth, I've still got the bag... and haven't touched it in the year since.

[quixotecoyote]

I don't like to smoke, is it supposed to work well in vaporizers?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I've heard that this is a safe, legal hallucinogen.
I'm having an interesting reaction to the word safe here. How were the safety tests conducted?

~~ Paul

[nescafe]

I don't like to smoke, is it supposed to work well in vaporizers?
No. Your average vaporizer does not get hot enough to vaporize salvinorin A.

The best form factor I have had it in was an alcohol-based tincture.

[nescafe]

Has anyone here tried Salvia? I've heard that this is a safe, legal hallucinogen.

Legal? Yes, for now.

Safe? Well, I have never heard of anyone dying from toxic effects from the drug itself, but salvia is a megatonnage dissociative hallucinogen -- it is entirely possible to do something horrible to yourself and not even notice until it is too late.

It is also not fun -- if you are looking for a fun trip stick with shrooms.

Salvia is more of a visionquest/ritual type of drug than a happy-tripper-looking-at-stars sort of thing.

Does anyone know anything about it?
A wee bit, it appears. :)

[articulett]

I'm having an interesting reaction to the word safe here. How were the safety tests conducted?

~~ Paul

I just meant safe as pot... nobody's died or had any horrible event happen because of it... it's not addictive... Most people who have tried it have no after effects...

Let me ask you guys this,
For those of you who tried it, are you glad you did. Would you take one "hit" and then wait a few minutes before trying another... Do they put salvia in hookahs?

Heck, I don't even get drunk, because I don't like the taste of alcohol enough to drink enough to feel anything. If your kid wanted to try it, would you encourage him... try it with him... warn him not to...

[luchog]

Heck, I don't even get drunk, because I don't like the taste of alcohol enough to drink enough to feel anything. If your kid wanted to try it, would you encourage him... try it with him... warn him not to...

I would not recommend Salvinorin A to anyone, for any reason. Certainly not at the higher psychosis-inducing levels. Well, no, that's not true. If you want to temporarily experience what it's like to be schizoid, then certainly; but it's not a recreational drug. It's way too "dark".

If you're looking for something recreational, stick with THC, LSD, psilocybin, or mescaline (in that order). Otherwise, like ibotenic acid, myristicine, bufotenine, DMT, DXM, or atropine, it's really not worth it. If you're looking for something educational, it may be useful as long as you abide by the previously-mentioned safety tips.

[articulett]

I would not recommend Salvinorin A to anyone, for any reason. Certainly not at the higher psychosis-inducing levels. Well, no, that's not true. If you want to temporarily experience what it's like to be schizoid, then certainly; but it's not a recreational drug. It's way too "dark".

If you're looking for something recreational, stick with THC, LSD, psilocybin, or mescaline (in that order). Otherwise, like ibotenic acid, myristicine, bufotenine, DMT, DXM, or atropine, it's really not worth it. If you're looking for something educational, it may be useful as long as you abide by the previously-mentioned safety tips.

So it produces psychosis in some people...? For how long. Marijuana seems to act as a catalyst in those prone to schizophrenia...

Yeah, I think I'm too afraid to try it. But I appreciate the input. Has anyone here had any good experiences with it? I don't really like feeling "out of control" of my senses.

[The Atheist]

Has anyone here tried Salvia? I've heard that this is a safe, legal hallucinogen.

Does anyone know anything about it?

Looks like plenty of people do.

I have a ton of anecdotal stories on salvia, which seem to be mirrored by comments so far.

You are unable to expect anything from salvia; the effects seem to be particularly individual. With dope, mushrooms and acid, you can reasonably predict what is likely to happen to the partaker. With salvia, the effects can range from the cataclysmically good to cataclysmically bad.

Those who get right off on the "visions" as they're usually described, love it and swear by it.

Those who have been bitten in a bad way will never return.

My comparison would be to dope + alcohol. When the wrong combination of those two take place, the feeling is quite violently bad, extreme paranoia, nausea, vastly increased heart-rate, cold sweat. Most people learn to avoid this early on as repeats are undesirable.

The adverse effects of salvia are like that feeling^10.

We're talking a level of badness I - and others - were unaware of.

I submit that it is possible for someone to do themselves extreme harm, up to suicide while under an extreme adverse reaction to salvia. Ironically, it's perfectly legal here, too.

How salvia and tobacco are legal, while marijuana is not is one of the enduring mysteries.

If you are prone to paranoia on pot, is that the same as Salvia. How much is a good amount to take just to try it? How long does it take to kick in, and how long does it last?

Fortunately, the hit is short-term. I really believe that if bad trips lasted longer, people would actually kill themselves. Ever been seasick? Imagine that, multiplied exponentially by influenza and salmonella poisoning. Not so much nausea, just that same feeling of welcoming death to stop it.

I'll read more. I've never had a hallucinogen. I've seen bad trips of people on mushrooms and I'm afraid of LSD.

The trick with mushrooms is just to get someone who knows what they're doing and doesn't give you too much!

LSD has a lot of bad press for no real reason. Of salvia and LSD, I'd rate LSD as safe and salvia as dangerous.

I tried ecstasy once before it was illegal, but I threw up and it was too much of a stimulant...I did not have a good experience--the only hallucination I felt was that "time was like droplets"--moments seemed unconnected instead of flowing from one to the next. I enjoy nitrous oxide at the dentist, but it gives me a headache.

Have you tried a good, strong marijuana? My wife is experienced with both dope and nitrous oxide (childbirth) and she felt they were very similar.

And is there a way to lessen the high if it's too intense or scary? How long did your experience(s) last and did you know it right away when it kicked in? Do you think it's a good idea to be a spotter before you try it? How much is a good amount to start with, via what method?

Because of the individuality of reaction, there's just no way to pick a "safe" dose. It kicks in like a rocket - one second nothing, next second a gibbering wreck.

I have hardened dopehead mates who will take any substance who have been scared out of their pants by salvia.

So it produces psychosis in some people...? For how long. Marijuana seems to act as a catalyst in those prone to schizophrenia...

That's true, but it really seems to be with long-term use.

Yeah, I think I'm too afraid to try it. But I appreciate the input. Has anyone here had any good experiences with it? I don't really like feeling "out of control" of my senses.

I'm bloody pleased you're too scared to try it, because I wouldn't give the stuff to my worst enemy. (Well, Benny Hinn, maybe)

If you don't like being out of control, salvia isn't for you - good trip or bad, you have no control over what happens.

Seriously, if you want to experience a mind-altering drug, try some skunk (marijuana). Safe(-ish), non-addictive, unable to overdose, never out of control (since you're teetotal), highly enjoyable experience. It's illegal, but far safer than legal salvia.

[articulett]

Thanks, The Atheist...

I think pot and nitrous oxide are very similar as well. And I cannot fathom why pot is not legal and alcohol and cigarettes are. If it was legal, I'd probably use it recreationally. I don't think I'll try salvia... and I'll tell my son what I learned. Things like mushrooms can last a long time, though... When I read about "random" experiences on line, it seems like it's weighted towards those who have good experiences or those who have experiences they are eager to share... whereas, here, nobody seems to have had a "worthwhile" experience they'd recommend to others. I am glad I read up on it. It's not the kind of thing one should try on a whim.

[rockoon]

Decided to read this thread before tripping on salvia for the first time. I have mostly come down from it now.

All I have to say is that it very much so IS a trip.. those who have tripped on something know why its called tripping, and this stuff definately causes about 10 minutes worth.

Edited to add some usage advice:

You want to be seated when you do this. Standing up while smoking this stuff is probably a very bad idea.

[badnewsBH]

Before I got into this thread, I thought articulett was going to ask questions about spit, perhaps even phlegm. No such luck...

Oh well, I guess I learnt somethin'. :o

[KateHL]

Oh, wow, I'm surprised to see so many negative experiences.

I've done it once and had a good experience. I don't know anyone else who's done it so I just figured most people had a similar experience to mine. Just goes to show you shouldn't make assumptions, hmm?

I don't think I had anywhere near as high a dose as some of the people in this thread. I most felt euphoric and a bit out-of-body. I just lied on the couch and listened to music for a bit. Unlike a lot of tales I've read, my euphoria lasted for probably a couple of hours. All in all it was quite a lovely experience.

Maybe the difference was that I chewed it rather than smoked it?

[Nucular]

Smoking the more concentrated versions (10x, 20x) in my experience gives far, far more effect than oral tincture.

Like others, I'd agree it's more interesting than pleasurable.

I have been terrified by it also - there I was swinging past countless alternate realities, and the only connection I had to the one I started in was a vague memory that it was the last one I'd been in. No other attachment than that. I wasn't sure whether to return to that one or another, nor whether I could indeed return at all.

If anyone tries this, I'd say the three compulsory safety measures to take are:

1) Read as much as you can before you do it, so you know as well as you can what to expect

2) Have a sitter

3) Absolutely beat into yourself that 'this is a drug I've just taken, and it'll wear off very soon'.

I consider myself quite a 'grounded' person, and I had a hell of a job remembering the last one.

To take it, if you're smoking it, a water bong is best. You'll need a jet lighter since normal lighters aren't really hot enough to vapourise the Salvinorin-A, and you need to breathe it in deeply and hold for 20 seconds. That particular process isn't amazingly comfortable either.

The experience lasts, again in my experience, a maximum of 20 minutes, and with the weaker forms is usually pretty much over after only about 5 minutes. When you come down, the milder effects linger for a short time, after which I generally feel quite good and very 'normal', which is a relief often.

Legality depends on where you are in the world, you'd have to look it up. In the UK it's not only legal, but has also fairly recently been discussed as a potential substance to ban and parliament decided against it, which is interesting. This was, I believe, on the grounds of lack of 'social harm', since it's so little known.

A good starting place for reading is Daniel Siebert's FAQ on the subject, followed by a poke around his quite comprehensive site: http://sagewisdom.org/faq.html

There you'll also find links to any studies done as regards safety, etc., as well as several explanations of quite how weird this stuff is.

I have also been surprised to try it socially and find that we laughed a great deal. Doing it alone in my experience tends to be more 'serious'.

Bottom lines:

1) I'd only recommend it to someone looking for weirdness, not fun
2) It can be worth it just for the relief of finding reality again, and is undeniably interesting
3) It genuinely doesn't compare to any other substance, except possibly (I've read and had it subjectively confirmed by someone I know) the 'dream' part of opiate use, only much, much stronger
4) The best description I've read is that it never affects you in a way you expect, how ever many 'trip reports' you read - it comes from leftfield, and a very common first thought is "oh, that's where you're coming from!"
5) Follow safety advice above

[Nucular]

I should also add that I've only tried it maybe seven or eight times, all within a month, and that I haven't tried it for a long time. If it's useful to know, I have absolutely no active plans to try more, though I wouldn't rule it out completely.

It's also an interesting plant for its own sake, being, it seems, a cultigen (plant which exists only in its domesticated form) developed hundreds of years ago in or around Mexico.

[Stout]

Yowzza !!! and I was under the impression you guys were all super straight nerds:D

I personally haven't tried salvia but my active doper buddies tried it last week and aren't really talking favourably about their experiences. Sure, "it was fun" they say, but nobody's in a hurry to do it again.

[rockoon]

Agreed. This isnt a "pick me up" style drug where you desire to feel the effects often (it only looks like pot)

[Cecil]

I'll chime in too. Salvia is not fun in the euphoric, relaxed, entertaining sense. The only sense in which I could consider it "fun" is in the "what a different state of consciousness that was!" sense.

It's different from every other hallucinogen I've tried in that that transition is very much a clean break. One moment you're exhaling smoke, starting to hear voices, then the next you're in a full-on alternate plane of existence. It has none of the smooth, reality-distorting characteristics of psilocybin, lsd, dxm, cannabis, etc. It is extremely difficult to maintain awareness that you are in an altered state into the trip.

As to what to expect, it's already been mentioned that it's a very personalized drug, moreso than cannabis. I've read countless trip reports - they're all different and my experience was nothing like them. I've had hallucinations of being inanimate objects (eg, a tupperware container), experiences of objects being subdivided in infinite geometric series (cf Zeno's paradox), experiences that my entire life was being lived on the underside of a giant rubber plunger that was in the process of being displaced (along with everyone I cared about), strange monistic delusions (ie, everything in the universe was made of tupperware containers (that went with the first hallucination :D )), etc..

I've also often had intense feelings of terror, always as the experience ends. That transition is less sharp, and the first thing that comes back for me has tended to be my memory. For example, after I realised that everything was tupperware, I started to freak out when I remember what the world had been like. I calmed down slightly as the hallucinations receded, but the panic remained for 5 minutes or so as I could see the alternate dimension fading. I had to hang onto the hallway to avoid falling in.

As with most dissociatives, the full effects are best experienced in a quiet, dark place. Conversely, the effects can be quieted by turning on lights and noise (TV works).

I have repeated this experience despite the negative feelings, though always with at least a year between. It seems like it takes me that long to get up the nerve again. I feel that in general it's a positive experience, in that it I can count on it to show me a new perspective of things.

I should mention that this refers to smoking it. Chewing it is a different beast altogether - the intensity seems to "spread out" over a longer period.

[Nucular]

Conversely, the effects can be quieted by turning on lights and noise (TV works).

Just to sound a note of caution: this may work for some, but not for everyone! When I turned the light and some music on to ground myself at the height of an intense trip, the music was no ordinary music - it was an ancient folk song about what nonsense my universe is, and my life, and anything I'd ever done, thought or felt (expertly composed as a sea-shanty, weirdly). Freaked me out more than sitting quietly in the dark! My sister also thought the TV was giving her impossible-to-follow orders.

In my experience, there's little you can do at the height of it other than wait, but that when you begin to come down that can be speeded up by doing normal things - having a snack, if you're a smoker smoking a cigarette, having a drink.

I do love the randomness of some of the themes - your recurring metaphysical tupperware made me chuckle, Cecil :)

[Cecil]

Just to sound a note of caution: this may work for some, but not for everyone! When I turned the light and some music on to ground myself at the height of an intense trip, the music was no ordinary music - it was an ancient folk song about what nonsense my universe is, and my life, and anything I'd ever done, thought or felt (expertly composed as a sea-shanty, weirdly). Freaked me out more than sitting quietly in the dark! My sister also thought the TV was giving her impossible-to-follow orders.

In my experience, there's little you can do at the height of it other than wait, but that when you begin to come down that can be speeded up by doing normal things - having a snack, if you're a smoker smoking a cigarette, having a drink.

Fair enough. I've only ever used the lights and TV while coming down, so that jives with what you mentioned. I don't think I'd every be able to turn the TV on at the height of a trip. :boggled:

[Primus]

Are psylocybin mushrooms illegal in America. I've never tried Salvia but I always find that legal herbal stuff does terrible things to your insides. Shrooms all the way. As long as they don't contain muscarine (Fly Agaric) in that case avoid at all costs.

[calebprime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhv1LTq1ZGE

there is something terrifying about this

[Retrograde]

I use Salvia officinalis regularly in cooking: used a whole handful in my Thanksgiving cornbread stuffing. I'd like to try Salvia hispanica, which was a staple of the Aztecs. My Salvia elegans is threatening to take over the yard again - hummingbirds like it, though, and it does smell nice.

I've been tempted to grow Salvia divinorum, since I like the genus in general and this one looks like it can be kept contained, and I was surprised to see it in a plant catalog last year. Maybe next year. For decorative purposes only - I'm too old to experiment.

[JoeEllison]

Enjoy your brain damage...

[Nucular]

I've been tempted to grow Salvia divinorum, since I like the genus in general and this one looks like it can be kept contained, and I was surprised to see it in a plant catalog last year. Maybe next year. For decorative purposes only - I'm too old to experiment.

I've also been tempted to grow it - again, not for 'experimentation' purposes as I don't think I'd be able to do the necessary cleverness in preparation, but because it's a very interesting, and quite mysterious, plant.

As I said above, it being a cultigen of unclear origin is interesting in itself; and there's also the fact that there are only about two known strains of this plant, since it's incredibly difficult to grow from seed. Pretty much all available plants are grown from cuttings. There are a few places online you can buy cuttings from.

Again, Daniel Siebert's site (www.sagewisdom.org) has some info on cultivation.

[Curdog]

Aquaintences of mine have tried it, and found it unpleasant. They went back to shrooms and weed.