The anti-vaxers' challenge

[Asolepius]

I just came across this (http://www.vaclib.org/links/jockslinks.htm#press): Jock Doubleday, director of the California 501(c)3 nonprofit corporation Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc., hereby offers $75,000.00 to the first medical doctor or pharmaceutical company CEO who publicly drinks a mixture of standard vaccine additives.........It put me in mind of course of the Randi challenge, but it must be flawed if 14 people have enquired about taking it up and declined to do so. Does anyone know where the truth lies?

[Zep]

He his trying to double-dog dare! some specific medical company executives with a bogus challenge that has no relationship to the operation of vaccines in real life, purely as some sort of self-promotion exercise. Like any of these woo medicos, to respond is to give him airtime. So I suspect, even if these executives did know about it, they would not consider him worthy of even a moment of their consideration - why are they going to promote stir-crazy woo like that?

And with a website designed like that, it would appear no-one has managed to read that far down the page to even FIND the challenge, let alone consider what it says. It's freakin' awful!

[Capsid]

Have you read the conditions of entry (http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/ContractPartA.htm)? For example, participants must buy 5 anti-vax books then take an exam about them. If they get less than 90% in the exam then they are ineligible to partake. The participants have to make 5 TV appearances. If the participant signs the agreement and then backs out they have to pay $10,000.

[Zep]

Yep! As I said, it's a totally bogus challenge aimed at publicity-whoring.

[Quakeulf]

Too bad I can't say "only in America", I'm sure this has happened in many other countries as well.

[Liquid_Grace]

Too bad I can't say "only in America", I'm sure this has happened in many other countries as well.


Well, Australia, for sure. I cringe every time my kid gets around those poor kids who's moms are taken in by this woo.

Given that we had a polio case in Melbourne recently.....:eye-poppi

Cheers,
Grace

[Capsid]

Given that we had a polio case in Melbourne recently.....:eye-poppi

Cheers,
GraceA Google search brings up various news items on this. Seems he got infected in Pakistan. I couldn't find out if he was vaccinated as a child or not.

[JQH]

We have these nutters in the UK as well. Their hero Andrew Wakefield is currently subject to a GMC "Fitness to Practise" panel.

His fans say he is being persecuted for his anti-MMR stance but the reality is that he is being investigated for unethical, unneccessary and dangerous procedures used on children in his research programme, plus undeclared financial interests. Full details at

http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

[Liquid_Grace]

A Google search brings up various news items on this. Seems he got infected in Pakistan. I couldn't find out if he was vaccinated as a child or not.

Yes, I knew he was infected in Pakistan, but what scares me is there are unvaccinated kids wandering about out there - possibly on the plane with this guy, or who came in contact with him, or what have you.

The point I was making wasn't that he should have been/wasn't vaccinated, but that I know enough anti-vax folks here in Australia to know that polio brought into the country could infect them.

That's scary.

Cheers,
Grace

[Mobyseven]

Yes, I knew he was infected in Pakistan, but what scares me is there are unvaccinated kids wandering about out there - possibly on the plane with this guy, or who came in contact with him, or what have you.

The point I was making wasn't that he should have been/wasn't vaccinated, but that I know enough anti-vax folks here in Australia to know that polio brought into the country could infect them.

That's scary.

Cheers,
Grace

I met someone in a course I took once who was like that. Appropriately it came up when we started talking about...something woo, I can't remember, and I made the comment that, "Would you believe that there are people out there who wouldn't vaccinate their child?"

Her hand shot straight up - "Do you know what they put in vaccinations?"

I told her I couldn't tell her off the top of my head - what does she think are in vaccinations. She also couldn't tell me off the top of her head. But they're bad...:rolleyes:

[krazyKemist]

I do love their "translation" of additives in vaccines:

hydrolyzed gelatin (calf and cattle skins, cattle bones and pork skin)

Wonder if they know that this is also present in ordinary jello ? And low-fat yogurts ? ROFL !!! :D

the Kemist

[opqdan]

I do love their "translation" of additives in vaccines:

hydrolyzed gelatin (calf and cattle skins, cattle bones and pork skin)

Wonder if they know that this is also present in ordinary jello ? And low-fat yogurts ? ROFL !!! :D

the KemistThat is my favorite type of woo. The "I care about this case, but not another".

It is escpecially prevalent in the food and supplement area. There are tons of people out there who will for instance, avoid anything that might contain MSG, and will know all of the names it can be "hidden" with on a food label. They will go on and on about the negative effects, and how they avoid it in everything, all while purchasing some parmesan cheese.

I saw this very comedy take place a while back in the cheese section of a Whole Foods a while back. "Do you realize how bad MSG is for you! It gives me terrible headaches! Mmmm, I love parmesan cheese." all in the same breath.

For those not in the know, parmesan cheese has insanely high MSG content (a lot higher than chinese soy sauce according to Wikipedia), which is why it tastes so delicious.

[Alareth]

There is always latrogenic polio ...

[JoeEllison]

Have you read the conditions of entry (http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/ContractPartA.htm)? For example, participants must buy 5 anti-vax books then take an exam about them. If they get less than 90% in the exam then they are ineligible to partake. The participants have to make 5 TV appearances. If the participant signs the agreement and then backs out they have to pay $10,000.

Three psychiatric exams, TWO exams, a physical exam... I'm surprised you don't have to learn to play Smoke on the Water and prove that you can juggle 4 bowling pins at once.

Can you get more ridiculous?

[Liquid_Grace]

There is always latrogenic polio ...

There is, and according to some sources I just read, there was an outbreak of this in China in 2006.

However, VAPP, or iatrogenic polio, is more common in adults than children, except for immuno compromised children, where there is increased risk, and in any case is limited to 1 in 750,000 vaccinations.

It is also more common in countries where vaccination is less common overall.

So, yes, this is a risk, but an acceptable one, IMO.

Cheers,
Grace

[Hauteden]

As painful as it was I read through the agreement and took notes. These are things the Participant must do to participate in the "test." Failure to comply with all of the requirements renders one ineligible to take the test. I would love if anybody else that has read through the agreement would agree or disagree with what I put forth below. As you will tell by reading this is in my own words and paraphrased.

1. Agree that if you fail any step you are permanently ineligible to take the "Test" or claim the prize but are still bound by the rules of this agreement.

2. Agree that the test givers can make you drink pretty much with anything they want. As long as the Test givers feel it might be in a vaccine.

3. At your own expense submit to 3 mental exams by psychiatrists named by the Test Givers.

4. Agree not to see the results the Mental Exams.

5. If in the Test Givers opinion you are mentally unsound you fail.

6. At your own expense submit all mental Health records to the Test Givers. Failure do so could result in covering all the costs of the Test Givers planning and producing the event AND $75/hour for their time working on the event.

7. Sign Part A and Take an e-mail exam consisting of 10 questions. Those questions and answers will be determined by the Test Giver. Missing one question constitutes failure.

8. Agree to not take any legal action against Test Giver when they release all your private info to the public, including Name, e-mail, and Biographical information.

9. Purchase 5 books the as determined by the Test Givers.

10. Take a Written Test on each of the books from step above. 2 hours will be given to take the tests and the Test Giver will determine the correct answers. Missing 2 answers on any of the test constitutes complete failure.

11. Agree that you must accept the Test Givers determination and may not seek a "recount"

12. At your own expense submit to a physical examination by a medical professional determined by the Test Giver.

13. Agree that if your weight is greater then 5 pounds from the physical exam at the time of the "Test" you fail.

14. At your own expense secure 3 medical professionals that will create and/or supervise the creation of the mixture, as defined by the Test Giver.

15. You have to be a Medical doctor to take the "Test" and must give the Test Givers copies of all materials you give your patients regarding vaccines.

16. Agree to appear in 5 regional or National Televised appearances.

17. Pay for all expenses related to the Televised Appearances including but not limited to travel, lodging and food for both you and the Test Givers.

18. Supply a picture and Biographical information that the Test Giver can use as they see fit.

19. Pay $5000 to the Test Giver in the event you don't sign the Agreement-in-Full within 120 days of signing Part A.

20. Pay $10000 in the event that you don't drink the mixture at the "Test"

So there you have it the 20 "easy" steps to qualify to take the test. Now mind you if you Sign Part A and then at anytime thereafter fail you still may be required to pay $15000 to the Test Givers. This is on top of the other expenses for Medical Professionals, Medical exams and tests, TV appearances, Books, etc... Now mind you strewn throughout the agreement are required timelines that must be met, some can be as little as 30 days others as long as 120 day. Failure to meet one of those time lines can result in failure and/or fines.

I would say if the Test Givers were serious about this "Test" they should reassess their agreement. It is pretty much one-sided all hinging on the Test Givers Opinion. There isn't anything included that if you disagree with a result that you can challenge the Test Giver. You even have to pay for "medical professionals" they require but no definition of "medical professional" is ever given.

[Chris Haynes]

Here is one Aussie's take on good ol' Jock:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/gentlebirth.htm

[robinson]

I decided to debunk this "challenge" by simply drinking the mixture. Of course I ran this by my Doctor first, to make sure it was safe.







I was told you would have to be insane to drink those chemicals in that amount, and in no uncertain terms not to do it.

Damn. And I could sure use the money too. :D