Should the second Chechen War end?

[Undesired Walrus]

I am attempting to read up on this. I feel a bit like that attractive Borg from Star Trek, who attempts to assimilate all information on everything related to terrorism (I'm turning odd). I understand the basic reasons behind the war, but so far I am not sure if the insurgency is religion first and nationalist second, or vice versa? Did 9/11 put a change it? Can Beslan and the Theatre seige (Which by the way, I think are far, far more horrific than anything that has happened since 9/11) be classified under the War on Terror?

I wish to know more about this extremly 'underated' and low-profile war, and your views on it, as I understand it is the most bitterly opposed war in the world, even from those who would support the Iraq War in the West.

Is it time for us to get rid of that ******** Putin?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I think they should let that place go tomorrow, period. Russia has a long history of taking over their neighbors' land and it's high time they cut it out.

[Ziggurat]

I wish to know more about this extremly 'underated' and low-profile war, and your views on it, as I understand it is the most bitterly opposed war in the world, even from those who would support the Iraq War in the West.

Many people in the west oppose Russia's ham-fisted approach to Chechnya. But I don't see how it can be simultaneously low-profile and the most bitterly opposed war in the world. This seems contradictory. I think it's not very opposed, and it's low-profile, for essentially the same reason: Russia isn't interested in our opinion on the subject, and protests against it in the west have no chance of influencing their actions.

Is it time for us to get rid of that ******** Putin?

How would we do that? And given the state of the conflict, why do you think doing so would make any real difference? The Islamic radicals won't put down their guns just because Putin leaves office, and any Russian who takes his place is still going to feel obliged to use pretty much the only tool available to them to try to solve the problem: the military.

[Ziggurat]

I think they should let that place go tomorrow, period. Russia has a long history of taking over their neighbors' land and it's high time they cut it out.

They've got the tiger by the tail. Grabbing it in the first place was a mistake, but simply letting go now is unlikely to solve the problem, especially not from the Russian's point of view.

[Nick Bogaerts]

I understand the basic reasons behind the war, but so far I am not sure if the insurgency is religion first and nationalist second, or vice versa? Did 9/11 put a change it?

The former for Basayev, the latter for Maskhadov.

The sidelining of Maskhadov, folllowed by his asssassination, meant that Basayev and his Islamist comrade-in-arms have had much more influence during the second Chechen war than they had during the first.

[Hutch]

Well, yes on the principle that war is nasty, brutish, and uncivilized...albeit as a species we can't seem to wean ourselves away from it.

I would note that much of the land now in dispute was taken over by the Russians in the 19th Century, partly to put pressure on the Ottomans and to push forward for the warm weather port that the Rus have dreamed about. They also took over because the Russian memory of the Tartar conquest and the rule of the Golden Horde is still part of the national memory, and having a buffer area is important to Russians, be they nationalists, communists, or proto-democratists.

I do not see see the Russians leaving anytime soon.

IMHO as always.

[Gurdur]

The Russians have pretty much destroyed Chechnya. One of the most vicious wars ever, oh and BTW, it wasn't Islamist to begin with, the Russians managed to turn it into that.

[Darth Rotor]

I wish to know more about this extremly 'underated' and low-profile war, and your views on it, as I understand it is the most bitterly opposed war in the world, even from those who would support the Iraq War in the West.

Is it time for us to get rid of that ******** Putin?
Who is "us?" How is it anyone else's business what the Russians do within their own borders?

DR

[Undesired Walrus]

Who is "us?" How is it anyone else's business what the Russians do within their own borders?

DR

Darth Rotor in arrogant holier-than-thou rhetoric shocker.

You seem to think I have formed an opinion. I haven't.

Here's a shock Darth. You aren't always right.

[Darth Rotor]

Darth Rotor in arrogant holier-than-thou rhetoric shocker.

You seem to think I have formed an opinion. I haven't.
Right, your wanting to get rid of that ******* Putin is a neutral, objective statement.
Here's a shock Darth. You aren't always right.
Right isn't the issue in my reply, I was pointing to your loose presumption that somehow "us" has an option to get rid of Putin.
By the way, according to The Economist, the second Chechen war is already over. Do you have better info?
Can Beslan and the Theatre seige (Which by the way, I think are far, far more horrific than anything that has happened since 9/11) be classified under the War on Terror?
I would not so classify it, even if Islamist styles have been adopted by some fighting the Russians.

Would you care to answer the question of who "us" is and how this "us" is supposed to get rid of Vlad the Charmer?

ETA: No link for the Economist, I read in on paper, not on line. The Chechnya article about one of the young new mayors in Chechnya was in one of the June issues I was catching up on this weekend.

Would you care to also respond to my other question, which is:

What business is it of anyone's what the Russians do within their own borders? I'd like you to explain that, thanks, rather than piss and moan about me being arrogant. Might be a more productive line to take.

DR

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm sorry Darth.

My girlfriend of two years split up with me yesterday, so I wanted to take it out on someone who is infinitly more intelligent than me. That's you.

[Darth Rotor]

I'm sorry Darth.

My girlfriend of two years split up with me yesterday, so I wanted to take it out on someone who is infinitly more intelligent than me. That's you.
Now that just sucks. :(

Given the particulars, I'd say you need to flame me a bit more, you barely scratched the surface, and hurt like that may need more catharsis. I'll take a few, for you broken heart's sake.

*assumes rope a dope position*

When you are done, we can have a few pints. :)

DR

[Undesired Walrus]

Yeah, she was so beautiful. So stunning.

**** this, I'm getting drunk.

Thanks Darth.

[Darth Rotor]

Yeah, she was so beautiful. So stunning.

**** this, I'm getting drunk.

Thanks Darth.

Good plan. Remember to drink a glass of water and take two aspirin before you pass out, to pre medicate the headache from the hangover. Just don't drive.

DR

[Gurdur]

Just wishing you all the best, Undesired Walrus; I'm sorry to hear of the events.