France : No Evidence That Hamas is a Terrorist Group

[Nie Trink Wasser]

we live in dark times.


France to Israel: No evidence Hamas, Islamic Jihad are ''terror groups''
25-08-2003


France expressed objections to placing Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the European Union(EU)'s list of "terror organizations", according to an Israeli report on Monday.

http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=257044&lang=e&dir=news

[JamesM]

Izzadin al-Kassam, the military wing of Hamas, is on the EU terror list. The question is whether one can make a distinction between the political and military wings of Hamas. The Bush administration says yes (http://216.26.163.62/2003/ss_palestinians_07_25.html), the Simon Wiesenthal Centre says no (http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/pdf/index.cfm?ItemID=7993) (warning: a 4MB PDF file).

[Skeptic]

Izzadin al-Kassam, the military wing of Hamas, is on the EU terror list. The question is whether one can make a distinction between the political and military wings of Hamas.

For all intents and purposes, no.

But I can understand France. After all, they don't want to piss off the millions of Muslims they stupidly let immigrate into the country, who are enough of a problem as it is. Why should they risk having the Eiffel tower blown up in retaliation for declaring Hamas to be a terrorist organization? After all, it's only jewish lives we're talking about here, not something REALLY important.

[Gem]

The problem is that the source is in hebrew. Did anyone here check the source of the article?

Gem

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Izzadin al-Kassam, the military wing of Hamas, is on the EU terror list. The question is whether one can make a distinction between the political and military wings of Hamas.

For all intents and purposes, no.

But I can understand France. After all, they don't want to piss off the millions of Muslims they stupidly let immigrate into the country, who are enough of a problem as it is. Why should they risk having the Eiffel tower blown up in retaliation for declaring Hamas to be a terrorist organization? After all, it's only jewish lives we're talking about here, not something REALLY important.

Skeptic.
Lately you post nothing except racist rants about evil bloodthirsty arabs..... get a grip, you are losing it.

[Tony]

Originally posted by The Fool


Skeptic.
Lately you post nothing except racist rants about evil bloodthirsty arabs..... get a grip, you are losing it.

What did he say that was racist?



You can always could on the fool to parade his pathetic pc strawmen.

[corplinx]

The only way I can see claiming these groups are not terrorists is by turning a blind eye to why they were formed and their history.

[corplinx]

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. Think of how much closer peace would be now if our "allies" in europe didn't have under the table diplomacy with the PLO leading to a formal recognition of this terror group as leaders of the palestinians. Nowadays, calling the PLO a terror group is some sort of slur. However at one time it was plainly true.

Legitimizing Hamas and Islamic Jihad is a slap in the fact of civilization.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Tony


What did he say that was racist?



You can always could on the fool to parade his pathetic pc strawmen.
Lol..... Don't worry Tony, you will figure it all out one day...

[Tony]

Originally posted by The Fool

Lol..... Don't worry Tony, you will figure it all out one day...


Yeah, when I stop thinking for myself.

[richardm]

Originally posted by JamesM
Izzadin al-Kassam, the military wing of Hamas, is on the EU terror list. The question is whether one can make a distinction between the political and military wings of Hamas. The Bush administration says yes (http://216.26.163.62/2003/ss_palestinians_07_25.html), the Simon Wiesenthal Centre says no (http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/pdf/index.cfm?ItemID=7993) (warning: a 4MB PDF file).


.. Surely it's a similar situation to that of the IRA and Sinn Fein. While not wishing to start any arguments, very few people think that Sinn Fein is actually a terrorist group, although it is clearly very closely affiliated with the IRA, which obviously is.

You've got to talk to these people at some point.

[Flo]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Izzadin al-Kassam, the military wing of Hamas, is on the EU terror list. The question is whether one can make a distinction between the political and military wings of Hamas.

For all intents and purposes, no.

For the specific intent of trying to find someone with some sense you can negociate with, yes.

But I can understand France. After all, they don't want to piss off the millions of Muslims they stupidly let immigrate into the country, who are enough of a problem as it is.

Specifics ? no ? I thought so ... I'm always amazed at how the anti-muslims are recycling the exact same garbage antisemites used in the '30s ...

Why should they risk having the Eiffel tower blown up in retaliation for declaring Hamas to be a terrorist organization? After all, it's only jewish lives we're talking about here, not something REALLY important.

I'm amazed, oh wise and moderate one, at the insight you show into the mind of the French ... :rolleyes:

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by richardm:
.. Surely it's a similar situation to that of the IRA and Sinn Fein. While not wishing to start any arguments, very few people think that Sinn Fein is actually a terrorist group, although it is clearly very closely affiliated with the IRA, which obviously is.

You've got to talk to these people at some point.

At the risk of starting an argument anyone who believes Sinn Fein and the IRA aren't the same thing is soft in the head.

By all means talk, but make sure these people aren't murdering, drugrunning or kneecapping at the same time.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Shane Costello


At the risk of starting an argument anyone who believes Sinn Fein and the IRA aren't the same thing is soft in the head.

By all means talk, but make sure these people aren't murdering, drugrunning or kneecapping at the same time.

Thank you, Shane. Of course, the technical details of the "essential difference" between Hamas or Sinn Fein "itself" and its military wing is sooooooooooooo important... as long as you're not one of their potential victims.

Somehow, I don't recall that this distinction was made--by those now justifying the importance of this distinction--in regards to, say, Al Quaeda.

When YOU are the target, suddenly the distinction between Al Quaeda "itself" and its "military wing" that carried out the 9/11 bombings matters a hell of a lot less, doesn't it?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Skeptic


Thank you, Shane. Of course, the technical details of the "essential difference" between Hamas or Sinn Fein "itself" and its military wing is sooooooooooooo important... as long as you're not one of their potential victims.

Somehow, I don't recall that this distinction was made--by those now justifying the importance of this distinction--in regards to, say, Al Quaeda.

When YOU are the target, suddenly the distinction between Al Quaeda "itself" and its "military wing" that carried out the 9/11 bombings matters a hell of a lot less, doesn't it?

Al-Qaeda does not have a seperate poltical wing. You have picked a bad example.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Shane Costello


At the risk of starting an argument anyone who believes Sinn Fein and the IRA aren't the same thing is soft in the head.



Fair enough, let me rephrase that slightly: Sinn Fein are treated as a separate entity to the IRA for political expedience. If you bang the lot of them in jail for being terrorists then you won't get much talking done.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by richardm:
Fair enough, let me rephrase that slightly: Sinn Fein are treated as a separate entity to the IRA for political expedience. If you bang the lot of them in jail for being terrorists then you won't get much talking done.

True. OTOH it was the policy of successive Irish governments to imprison or hang Sinn Fein/IRA terrorists. This policy worked so well that the IRA was as near extinction as made no difference by the 1960's.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Shane Costello


True. OTOH it was the policy of successive Irish governments to imprison or hang Sinn Fein/IRA terrorists. This policy worked so well that the IRA was as near extinction as made no difference by the 1960's.

Mm, not sure when the hangings stopped, but there was certainly internment without trial through the 1970s, and the IRA was pretty active then...

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Originally posted by Shane Costello


True. OTOH it was the policy of successive Irish governments to imprison or hang Sinn Fein/IRA terrorists. This policy worked so well that the IRA was as near extinction as made no difference by the 1960's.

And this policy worked so well that it was followed by 30 years of terrorist activity.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Skeptic

When YOU are the target, suddenly the distinction between Al Quaeda "itself" and its "military wing" that carried out the 9/11 bombings matters a hell of a lot less, doesn't it?

Of course, as we saw, when WE are the target, suddenly the distinction between Al Queda and Arab-American also seems to matter less. Doesn't mean the distinction isn't real, and shouldn't be recognized.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by richardm:
Mm, not sure when the hangings stopped, but there was certainly internment without trial through the 1970s, and the IRA was pretty active then...

It was decidedly inactive before then, and without support among the Nationalist population in the North of Ireland or the Republic. The problem was that Northern Ireland was a sectarian state where Catholics were second class citizens. When the authorities did imopse internment, it was almost exclusively against Catholic suspects.

Originally psted by Jaggy Bunnet:
And this policy worked so well that it was followed by 30 years of terrorist activity.

In Northern Ireland, not the Republic. Blame the sectarian Unionist state (and the British governments including bleeding hearts like Clement Attlee and Harold Wilson who turned a blind eye) for that.