someone is claiming james randi is a scammer! defend him!

[dannagain]

this is something i came across on a magic website of all places where i thought people would be slightly more rational. would anyone like to show this guy why he is talking rule 8?



"the James Randi thing is a scam. I know a handful of people (personally) who have applied for the tests, and James Randi refused to test them, then altered their e-mails on his site so that he could make fun of them. One of these people tried for months to be tested, and even offered to take half the award money but Randi still refused...I'm still shocked that everyone believes he is actually giving out this money. All it is is a bluff to anyone who claims to be psychic; if anyone steps forward then Randi becomes a coward and backs down. I think he is just pissed off because he lives in America and people are allowed to believe in what they want to, and since some people choose not to agree with them he acts like a 5 year old to get revenge.

Side Note: The million dollars he is (supposedly) giving away is in bonds, which have a high tax on them. So even if he actually accepted a challenge, after the taxes the person is only recieving around $400,000 which is still a lot, but not the full 1 million he promises."

Edited to add link

http://www.magichat.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7902&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=cf3988eaedfa014dc18d72a48da51b49&start=15#p139874

[JoeEllison]

I'm trying to figure out how James Randi is somehow an evil manipulator of America's tax system?!?!?!

[dannagain]

lol. exactly. is that even true about the high tax on bonds? does anyone know how much the million would be after tax?

[Tombolian]

I think he is just pissed off because he lives in America and people are allowed to believe in what they want to...
By your own definition, because you believe this, you live in America, right?

[JoeEllison]

lol. exactly. is that even true about the high tax on bonds? does anyone know how much the million would be after tax?It doesn't matter, because you would get a cashier's check, not bonds.

*shrugs* I don't figure honesty to be a woo-ster's strong suit.

[William Smith]

lol. exactly. is that even true about the high tax on bonds? does anyone know how much the million would be after tax?

From here: (http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html)

[...]
9. At the formal test, in advance, an independent person will be placed in charge of a personal check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed-upon terms and conditions, that check shall be immediately surrendered to the claimant, and within ten days the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward, for a total of US$1,000,000. One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account" as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail.
[...]

[dannagain]

By your own definition, because you believe this, you live in America, right?

que?

[Tombolian]

Please stop trolling.

[EatatJoes]

Side Note: The million dollars he is (supposedly) giving away is in bonds, which have a high tax on them. So even if he actually accepted a challenge, after the taxes the person is only recieving around $400,000 which is still a lot, but not the full 1 million he promises."

This is just a dumb way to b*tch. In this country you can't just be given money w/out uncle sam getting his "far share". So, I suppose that Mr. Randi should base he prize money on what country the winner comes from so they walk away, post tax, with a million bucks. Freaking idiots.

[dannagain]

Please stop trolling.

mate what are you talking about? i didn't write the original paragraph, i quoted it from somewhere else as i clearly state in the OP. my reason for posting this was to see if anyone would like to show why this guy is talking rubbish so i can tell him exactly why he is talking rubbish. you're first comment made no sense to me. would you care to clarify what you meant? :confused:

[Little 10 Toes]

You're being called a troll for a few reasons. You fail to mention which site your quote came from.

If I recall correctly, the $1m is held in bonds which will then be converted to $990,000 cash or cash equivilent (check, money order). The winner of the challange(sp) will be awarded $10k cash on the spot. The original poster has not reviewed the rules/FAQ on the challange(sp).

I am too lazy and tired today to correct my spelling or give you links. In addition, I've given a quick overview of how the payout happens. I am not a lawyer, representitive of JREF or have any other relationship with this website other than to read posts and occasionally say "What the heck" when someone posts outlandish ideas (search "buzz lightyear"). Your mileage may vary.

[Tombolian]

mate what are you talking about? i didn't write the original paragraph, i quoted it from somewhere else as i clearly state in the OP. my reason for posting this was to see if anyone would like to show why this guy is talking rubbish so i can tell him exactly why he is talking rubbish. you're first comment made no sense to me. would you care to clarify what you meant? :confused:
:o Heh heh... Sorry... I'm the confused one. I thought your 'que' statment was trolling... Even though I read the OP, I got confused by the end of the thread (yeah, a couple messages later). Darn short term memory!

[dannagain]

You're being called a troll for a few reasons. You fail to mention which site your quote came from.

well that's only one reason but if that is important for you the original post can be found here: http://www.magichat.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7902&hilit=

don't worry tombolian i thought it might be something like that.

[Tombolian]

Oh my goodness... That thread... Why does my throat tighten up when I read it (stress)? Every single post! Priceless!:eek:

[strathmeyer]

If Randi were really a scamming people, all somebody would need to do would be to simply prove they have paranormal abilities to everyone else, and we could watch Randi refuse to test them.

[fuelair]

Yes, there will be income tax on the award - that applies to ANY prize money OR PRODUCT, OR SERVICE you win - and, no, the prize agency (lottery, tv show, etc.) awarding the prize is not responsible for the tax. That is not a trick, that is US tax rules. Suck it up.

[Zep]

Yes, there will be income tax on the award - that applies to ANY prize money OR PRODUCT, OR SERVICE you win - and, no, the prize agency (lottery, tv show, etc.) awarding the prize is not responsible for the tax. That is not a trick, that is US tax rules. Suck it up.Unless it is won by someone in another country where prizes are not taxed. Such as here in Australia. Although we DO tax any income derived from that money...!

[CFLarsen]

It is pretty desperate if Randi is blamed for the US Tax system.

[gtc]

i didn't write the original paragraph, i quoted it from somewhere else as i clearly state in the OP.

Hi, welcome to the forum.

You can format quotes from other sites by typing [ QUOTE ] before the quote and [ / QUOTE ] after the end of the quote (but without the spaces) to make it even clearer that the quote is not your own words.

[dannagain]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

You can format quotes from other sites by typing [ QUOTE ] before the quote and [ / QUOTE ] after the end of the quote (but without the spaces) to make it even clearer that the quote is not your own words.

thanks, i will do that in future

[brodski]

The original poster has not reviewed the rules/FAQ on the challange(sp)..

To be fair, there currently is no publicaly available challange FAQ.

[Cainkane1]

Its my guess that Mr. Randi has to deal with a lot of crackpots who try to get publicity by contacting him knowing full well that their so called powers will be refuted by him if they are indeed tested. This would cost Randi more time and money than he's willing to lose.

Mr. Randi has tested high profile people such as Uri Geller and that Russian girl who claimed she had X-ray eyes. Mr. Randi can't respond to every crackpot that contacts him and I'm sure there are many of them.

[JoeEllison]

To be fair, there currently is no publicaly available challange FAQ.

Yes, but it was up earlier in the weekend.

[rjh01]

Where is the FAQ? I looked here http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#randi but found the cupboard bare.

[drkitten]

Its my guess that Mr. Randi has to deal with a lot of crackpots who try to get publicity by contacting him knowing full well that their so called powers will be refuted by him if they are indeed tested. This would cost Randi more time and money than he's willing to lose.


Not quite. Crackpots tend, first, not to be interested in publicity, and second, by definition are delusional. They don't "[know] full well" they will be refuted.

The problem is that they're simply bonkers, in many cases certifiably so; the point of the challenge is to educate the public about the paranormal, not to ridicule the schizophrenics. The world does not need another demonstration that the mentally ill are mentally ill.

[jimtron]

this is something i came across on a magic website of all places where i thought people would be slightly more rational. would anyone like to show this guy why he is talking rule 8?Here's a mentalism (mindreading flavored magic) forum (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewforum.php?forum=15&144900) that has a few skeptics, but many beat up on Randi and either believe or pretend to believe in psychics, remote viewing, and the like. Jim Callahan (http://www.jimclass.com/), who was mentioned in this (http://www.randi.org/jr/081205another.html#10) Randi Commentary, is a prolific poster there (he claims paranormal abilities and also has posted under the name J ack Galloway (sic) ).

Here's another JREF Forum thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2366654) that relates to this one. A few JREF members have posted over there recently; I used to post there a while back. If you like pain, I recommend a visit.

Here are a handful of Randi threads (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_results_topics.php?search_id=3101607) on the mentalism forum. And some maddening threads (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_results_posts.php?search_id=3101588) I was involved with, where some mentalists claim that psychics, remote viewing etc are real.

[T'ai Chi]

It just isn't the standard channels of science, so it is irrelevant for 'tseting claims'.

It is good entertainment though.

[RemieV]

Where is the FAQ? I looked here http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#randi but found the cupboard bare.

The FAQ is being rewritten to reflect the new rules (which changed on April 1st of this year).

The updated FAQ will be up soon!

[CFLarsen]

It just isn't the standard channels of science, so it is irrelevant for 'tseting claims'.

It is good entertainment though.

You have yet to explain what is so unscientific about the JREF Challenge.

Except that it isn't done by men in white coats. That seems to be your only requirement for calling something "science".

[The_Animus]

I always love the people that say we only use 10% of our brains. That thread was even more hilarious though. One guy claimed it was only 3%.

[robinson]

The myth that we use only 10% of our brains was debunked a while back.

[Marquis de Carabas]

The myth that we use only 10% of our brains was debunked a while back.
Yes, but many people continue to give practical demonstrations that it certainly seems true.

[Kimpatsu]

This is just a dumb way to b*tch. In this country you can't just be given money w/out uncle sam getting his "far share". So, I suppose that Mr. Randi should base he prize money on what country the winner comes from so they walk away, post tax, with a million bucks. Freaking idiots.
No, I think what he's saying is that if Uncle Sam takes, say, 10% of the prize money, Randi should be offering $1,100,000 so that the successful applicant walks away with $1 million even after taxes.

[Kimpatsu]

I always love the people that say we only use 10% of our brains. That thread was even more hilarious though. One guy claimed it was only 3%.
In his case, it's probably true... :p

[Klaymore]

Crackpots tend, first, not to be interested in publicity, and second, by definition are delusional. They don't "[know] full well" they will be refuted.

The problem is that they're simply bonkers, in many cases certifiably so; the point of the challenge is to educate the public about the paranormal, not to ridicule the schizophrenics. The world does not need another demonstration that the mentally ill are mentally ill.

Yes and no (mostly no). Sure, real, actual, insane people in the throes of schizophrenic delusion may very well think that they are seeing objects levitate, or "hearing" other people's thoughts, etc. So they may well actually expect that their "observations" would be bourne out under testing.

But if you read the challenge applications, and especially if you follow the threads of "challengers" like Buzz Lightyear, Edge, Sherman Bay, and many others, you'll find out that what they really want to do is talk. Just talk. Because if we argue with them--even if we call them idiots and laugh at them--we are listening to them. The religious crackpots (and again I use that word not as a medical diagnosis, but just as a general characterization of demeanor) are often the worst offenders in this regard, but not always.

Slamming Randi on this site or any other often serves as a touchstone for attention. Now, if you read various threads on this site, you'll see Randi and the JREF getting criticized--if not exactly slammed--by many people who admire him and his organization. That's because people who admire James Randi are critical thinkers, and critical thinkers are critical.

I read your posts on the other site, and you defend Randi eloquently and rationally. Good job, but don't expect it to stop crackpots from being crackpots, any more than liking Randi makes critical thinkers stop being critical!