Are European Jews...Europeans?

[parky76]

http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/Levite%20paper.pdf

Here is a very interesting paper about the possible origin of Levite Jewish males. DNA testing found that Levite men tend to have a genetic marker that is relatively rare amoung other Jewish groups, but is common amoung Belorussians, Ukranians, and other Eastern Europeans.

The Nazis argued that the Jews are purely of Semitic origin and had nothing in common with Europeans.

60 years later, the debate has taken a 180 degree turn. Modern anti-semites argue that Jews are infact European and have nothing to do with the Middle East.

But DNA testing may show that it is indeed....a big combo. Jews from Europe clearly have Middle Eastern genes, but may also, expecially Levites (like me), have a clear Eastern European element, and possibly even origin.

[Gurdur]

Um, d'oh?

[Complexity]

Why does this matter to you?

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Tch, we all know that Jews are actually genetically Native American.

[parky76]

Complex- it doesnt really matter...its just an interesting topic..for debate. thats what this forum is for right?

[Gurdur]

Complex- it doesnt really matter...its just an interesting topic..for debate. ..

What the hell is there to debate? So one ethnic group happens to genetically show effects of ethnic mixing? Uh, d'oh again?

[a_unique_person]

I had a taxi ride with a driver who was for a change intelligent and good conversation. He was dark skinned, in a middle eastern kind of way. I asked him where he came from, and he said Russia. I said I was very surprised, since he had the dark skin. He said that was because he was Jewish.

[parky76]

Jews from Uzbekistan, known as Bukhara Jews, tend to be dark skinned. My family is from Russia, Ukraine, and Slovakia, and I am white as the driven snow.

[steverino]

I had a taxi ride with a driver who was for a change intelligent and good conversation.

You mean that in the past when you rode with that taxi driver he was unintelligent and made poor conversation?

:D

[MaGZ]

So where did the "European" Jews come from if they are not related to Khazars?

[LibraryLady]

So where did the "European" Jews come from if they are not related to Khazars?

Well, you see, their mommies and daddies loved each other very much....

[David Swidler]

Well, you see, their mommies and daddies loved each other very much....

Nominated. Thank you, LL, for a belly laugh.

[Cleon]

Nominated. Thank you, LL, for a belly laugh.

Seconded, on both counts. :D

[LibraryLady]

:shy:

[Art Vandelay]

What the hell is there to debate? So one ethnic group happens to genetically show effects of ethnic mixing? Uh, d'oh again?Do you mean "duh"?

[Gurdur]

Do you mean "duh"?

Art Vandelay, surely you're not serious this time? Surely you're betraying for the first time an ounce of self-deprecating humour? *

I mean, you really MUST know that "d'oh" is a commonly accepted variant spelling of "duh", and vice versa. You DO know this, yes?

___________

Yes, "humour". With a "u".

[jsiv]

European...

Jewropean...


I report. You decide.

[Art Vandelay]

Art Vandelay, surely you're not serious this time? Surely you're betraying for the first time an ounce of self-deprecating humour? *

I mean, you really MUST know that "d'oh" is a commonly accepted variant spelling of "duh", and vice versa. You DO know this, yes? "D'oh" and "duh" are interjections with completely different meanings, and I have not seen anyone other than you use you them interchangeably. Even if they are used interchangeably in your linguistic community, they are not in mine, and so your insistence in using the wrong one is misguided.

Yes, "humour". With a "u".Hmm, so clearly you are aware that you are of a linguistic community with rules which differ considerably from mine, you refuse to tell me what that community is, yet you expect me to somehow know what those rules are.

[Big Les]

Well, you see, their mommies and daddies loved each other very much....

Blackadder FTW.

[Damien Evans]

Well, you see, their mommies and daddies loved each other very much....

nominated

[slingblade]

"D'oh" and "duh" are interjections with completely different meanings...

The former is best known from The Simpsons.

[Gurdur]

"D'oh" and "duh" are interjections with completely different meanings, and I have not seen anyone other than you use you them interchangeably.
Art, Art, I KNEW it was asking too great a miracle to expect an iota of self-deprecating humour* from you. But I thought I would leave you with a graceful avenue for retreat open. But since you want to imitate Samsanov at Tannenberg, we can do that instead.

How about you, Art, give the allegedly correct meanings and usages of the two terms? Of course, with sources.

BTW, I think your pedantry in this case is remarkably silly. But hey. BTW, there is a typo in your post, now bolded for you; I know how much you like to comment on others' grammar & spelling.

Even if they are used interchangeably in your linguistic community, they are not in mine, and so your insistence in using the wrong one is misguided.

Now you're being absolutely ridiculous. You are trying to claim your "linguistic community" (I suspect of N=1) takes precendence over mine in prescriptive linguistics, on an issue of a slang phrase?

Not Tannenberg but even worse. Not even only Cannae, but Carrhae instead. :p

Hmm, so clearly you are aware that you are of a linguistic community with rules which differ considerably from mine, you refuse to tell me what that community is, yet you expect me to somehow know what those rules are.

First off, you were silly, then you were ridiculous, now you're being ludicrous. I never "refused" to tell you what my "linguistic community" is, you simply never asked. Given that you are making stupidly false accusations, I think I wil point out to you that any self-respecting linguist could easily work out from my posts just what main linguistic community rules I adhere to. You should do the same -- work it out for yourself.

Lots of fun with your prescriptive linguistics. For many years I was a descriptive linguist, professionally.

Any old how, you give me those definitions and usages, 'mmmmmmkay?

_____________

* Still with a "u".

[blndrhed]

http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/Levite%20paper.pdf

Here is a very interesting paper about the possible origin of Levite Jewish males. DNA testing found that Levite men tend to have a genetic marker that is relatively rare amoung other Jewish groups, but is common amoung Belorussians, Ukranians, and other Eastern Europeans.

The Nazis argued that the Jews are purely of Semitic origin and had nothing in common with Europeans.

60 years later, the debate has taken a 180 degree turn. Modern anti-semites argue that Jews are infact European and have nothing to do with the Middle East.

But DNA testing may show that it is indeed....a big combo. Jews from Europe clearly have Middle Eastern genes, but may also, expecially Levites (like me), have a clear Eastern European element, and possibly even origin.
An issue I refuse to touch with a 100000000000 foot pole.

[gtc]

Gurdur,

Duh means that statement was so obvious that I am forced to question your intelligence for mentioning it.

The 'uh' sound is often stretched out when spoken.

D'oh means Oh No! Why did I do that (or why did that happen)?

The 'oh' is a short explosive sound as in all the best expletives.

D'oh is used by Homer Simpson when he has done something stupid.

I have never heard duh and d'oh used interchangeably.

[Gurdur]

Duh:
The 'uh' sound is often stretched out when spoken.
D'oh:
The 'oh' is a short explosive sound as in all the best expletives.

So there's a phonetic difference between the two terms, but that was already known. NOW can you or Art, who did the original flame, tell me any actual difference in meaning between the two?
I have never heard duh and d'oh used interchangeably.
I have.

I'm still waiting for Art to back his flame up; I can't believe how silly it was in the first place, but hey, since Art forced the issue, we can do it to death.

[Quavergirl]

duh = You are stupid

d'oh = I am stupid

Somewhat like cleave v. cleave

cleave = adhere, cling

cleave = split, divide

Q

[gtc]

Gurdur, I agree with Quavergirl.

I interpreted your second post to mean that you (Gurdur) had just realised something that should have been obvious.

I think you meant to say that Parky had just realised something that should have been obvious.

If you realise that the words are not interchangeable then you should say d'oh and I will say duh.

Edited to add: I put my definitions for the words in the quotations. I thought that would make them more obvious but I see that it doesn't. D'oh. I have fixed the formatting.

[RandFan]

The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.

I hope that helps.

[Damien Evans]

The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.

I hope that helps.

I dunno, it might qualify as an empire

[RandFan]

I dunno, it might qualify as an empireAs my history professor said, "sorta Roman, kind of an empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Government), whether it was holy or not is a discussion for theology and not history".

[armageddonman]

I really don;t get the point of this thread.

All people who live in Europe migrated into Europe at one time in history. So strictly speaking nobody is European because no human being's ancestor originated in Europe.

[The Fool]

I agree with Art...


I may deny this statement in the future........ :)

[David Swidler]

I agree with Art...


I may deny this statement in the future........ :)

Ah, but now there's proof, right here in this post.

[The Fool]

Ah, but now there's proof, right here in this post.
Liar!!!!!!

obviously someone has hacked my account as I have no specific recollection of posting that entry....

[Mycroft]

60 years later, the debate has taken a 180 degree turn. Modern anti-semites argue that Jews are infact European and have nothing to do with the Middle East.

Yeah, but the question is why they would want to do that.

The answer is it accomplishes two things. First it removes the connection between modern Jews and Jews of the Old Testament, paving the way for Christian anti-Semitism for those Christians who want to hate Jews but don't know how to deal with all those theological issues. Second, for modern anti-Semites who want to bang on the anti-Zionist drum, it removes the connection between Jews and the Holy Land.

The way things aught to be is a genetic connection thousands of years removed should only be of interest to anthropologists and trivia buffs, but the unfortunate truth is there are still plenty of people willing to spread these untruths in order to further hateful political agendas.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Yeah, but the question is why they would want to do that.

The answer is it accomplishes two things. First it removes the connection between modern Jews and Jews of the Old Testament, paving the way for Christian anti-Semitism for those Christians who want to hate Jews but don't know how to deal with all those theological issues. Second, for modern anti-Semites who want to bang on the anti-Zionist drum, it removes the connection between Jews and the Holy Land.

The way things aught to be is a genetic connection thousands of years removed should only be of interest to anthropologists and trivia buffs, but the unfortunate truth is there are still plenty of people willing to spread these untruths in order to further hateful political agendas.
The unfortunate truth is that there are still plenty of people wiling to spread claims about scary but interestingly unidentified groups to further their political agendas.