John Schroeder's Video up at Google Video

[boloboffin]

-7471885217846396761

Watching it now.

ETA: John's mentioned here at Firehouse (http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/cancel.html). He saw the plane hit the building.

[Revolutionary91]

-7471885217846396761

Watching it now.

ETA: John's mentioned here at Firehouse (http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/cancel.html). He saw the plane hit the building.


Message from Dylan

And our fan club over at JREF is already making ridiculous ad hominem attacks instead of actually addressing the things John says.

Let me point out a few things:

1) John himself volunteered to come forward. This interview was not forced on him in any way, shape or form, and he has full recognition of the purpose of the interview.
2) I did not ask any leading questions. I asked him honest, straight-forward questions that he could have said either a "Yes" or "No" to.
3) I put no words in his mouth, and I had to edit an hour-long interview down to 47 minutes. Sue me for leaving some things out.
4) No one has yet to provide a plausible explanation for the points John raises.

Put up or shut up, JREF. I realize you have this deep psychotic obsession with me, but for once, put your vendettas aside and hear the words that are coming out of a hero's mouth.


http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13481

[Mince]

Message from Dylan


http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13481


Thanks message boy. Tell Avery he can come over here. I know why he doesn't, but he can at any time. Tell him that for me, will ya? Thank you.

[Arus808]

Um....is he referring to another thread? This is like 3 replies, and I dont see any 'ad homs'.


Dylan, you know you are and always have been extended the opportunity to join this site, instead of replying by proxy via your fans who ARE registered here. Why are you not willing to debate your views here?


Since your rogue admins bans everyone on your board that have a different views than those shared there, how are we supposed to communicate with you? you can disparage us all you want on your board, but you will not say those things here by your unwillingness to even come here and register.

[Revolutionary91]

Um....is he referring to another thread? This is like 3 replies, and I dont see any 'ad homs'.


Dylan, you know you are and always have been extended the opportunity to join this site, instead of replying by proxy via your fans who ARE registered here. Why are you not willing to debate your views here?


Since your rogue admins bans everyone on your board that have a different views than those shared there, how are we supposed to communicate with you? you can disparage us all you want on your board, but you will not say those things here by your unwillingness to even come here and register.

They are on the radio right now talking about this. Ring in.

[T.A.M.]

http://www.alrodstudio.com/images/puppet.gif

TAM:)

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

He might be thinking about my thread I made about him:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89467

[Unsecured Coins]

Sue me for leaving some things out

that's already happened, didn't it?


oooh... I went there, didn't I?

[Mince]

that's already happened, didn't it?


oooh... I went there, didn't I?


Is Avery demanding I sue him? But I have no standing or cause of action. Whatever shall I do? I don't want to disobey or disappoint His Dylanness.

[parky76]

I watched the video and I didn't see anything new. If anything it helped dispel 9-11 myths.

One thing I found interesting, is that the guy would see the Muslim at the fruit stand every day. But on 9-11..the guy was gone. Hmmmm.

Second thing...the woman who was burnt from the elevators. The contention is that jet fuel spilled down the elevator shafts to the ground floor. Seeing a woman burned would only strengthen that argument.

But yes, the fireman did see and hear explosions that were not from the plane impact. Perhaps we could get some sort of list of what was in the WTC..perhaps near the elevator shafts..that may have exploded?

[Revolutionary91]

http://www.alrodstudio.com/images/puppet.gif

TAM:)

Is that gravy holding those strings? Is that a doctors bag the puppet is holding? lol

[T.A.M.]

Hoot Hoot...

TAM;)

[Unsecured Coins]

His Dylanness.

wow, guess what that made me think of?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/baroness.gif

[CHF]

Put up or shut up, JREF. I realize you have this deep psychotic obsession with me, but for once, put your vendettas aside and hear the words that are coming out of a hero's mouth.

Dylan, does your sudden interest in firefighter testimony mean that you'll start listening to FDNY testimony on WTC7's condition?

Will you start listening to all the FDNY who don't buy into 9/11 twoof?

Will you start listening to the rescue workers at GZ who found no evidence of explosives?

Because if you want to start playing the "who has FDNY backing" game you'll lose. Big time.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Um....is he referring to another thread? This is like 3 replies, and I dont see any 'ad homs'.


I think Dylan's referring to this thread/post: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2845029&posted=1#post2845029

[Pardalis]

4) No one has yet to provide a plausible explanation for the points John raises.

Like when he said that something wrong was happening that day?

Yeah, planes were hijacked by terrorists and rammed into buildings, that's what went wrong that day.

[Pardalis]

But yes, the fireman did see and hear explosions that were not from the plane impact. Perhaps we could get some sort of list of what was in the WTC..perhaps near the elevator shafts..that may have exploded?

Dylan still hasn't learned what simile means.

[MarkyX]

So...can anyone point to me anything in this interview where he says there was thermite bombs or Mark Bingham was fake?

[Revolutionary91]

Dylan is really slating you guys on air now.

[Revolutionary91]

So...can anyone point to me anything in this interview where he says there was thermite bombs or Mark Bingham was fake?

Would you call him a denier to his face?

[Brainster]

Is he seriously claiming that Marty Hardy the fruit-seller was in on the plot? And the 500 firemen he claims called in sick that day?

[CHF]

Dylan is really slating you guys on air now.

And I'm sure his 15 listeners are loving it.

And I'm also sure Dylan, despite his supposed respect for the FDNY, will continue to ignore FDNY testimony on WTC7, "pulling" the operation, and everything else that is inconvenient for him.

Tell Dylan that his next step should be to find some corroborating testimony from other FDNY. Or is his plan to find one firefighter with a bad memory and call it a day?

[Revolutionary91]

Is he seriously claiming that Marty Hardy the fruit-seller was in on the plot? And the 500 firemen who called in sick that day?

He didn't say 500 firemen. He said 500 workers.

[Unsecured Coins]

he also said flight 93 landed in Cleveland

[Cl1mh4224rd]

He didn't say 500 firemen. He said 500 workers.


That doesn't really help. What's his [buddy's] source for this number?

[Revolutionary91]

And I'm sure his 15 listeners are loving it.

And I'm also sure Dylan, despite his supposed respect for the FDNY, will continue to ignore FDNY testimony on WTC7, "pulling" the operation, and everything else that is inconvenient for him.

Tell Dylan that his next step should be to find some corroborating testimony from other FDNY. Or is his plan to find one firefighter with a bad memory and call it a day?

Dylan said yesterday that a friend of this guy is also going to go public and he apparently has some new footage that Dylan wants from him.

[Pardalis]

Is it me or is Alex jones making a commercial for liver donation?

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Dylan is just a punk kid. He has nothing to prove & yet he insist that his claims are true. Jason Bermas never went to college to be a real investigator.

Both are a waste of airtime on the radio. Lies, lies & more lies.

[CHF]

Dylan said yesterday that a friend of this guy is also going to go public and he apparently has some new footage that Dylan wants from him.

Can't wait to see that footage of thermite bombs, Rev!

But be sure not to tell Dylan about the video of FDNY saying WTC7 was going to fall. Not sure how he'd spin that, what with his newfound respect for NY firefighters.

[Brainster]

He didn't say 500 firemen. He said 500 workers.

So 500 workers and Marty Hardy the fruit seller were in on the plot?

[boloboffin]

Funny that Dylan would say that we're accusing him of leading questions, even though no one has yet. Guilty conscience, Dylan?

I was taking some quick notes as I watched. Most of this is close to verbatim, but it's also snatches of conversation, or statements by Schroeder:

S: buildings coming down.

Other buildings on fire, they weren't hit by planes.

It wasn't right.

"Tower 7 just doesn't come down like that. I'm sorry."

Got "blown up" in the north tower when the second plane hit. In the stairwell, close to the ground floor.

Q: How confusing to know a plane hit but you saw devastation below?

S: Couldn't believe it, elevators falling, people coming down missing limbs and burnt.

It's still confusing what went on.

5 minutes in the building and now the elevators are coming down. Distinct delay.

S: How did the lobby get destroyed when the plane hits the 80th floor?

I can't remember yesterday some days. all I can remember is 9/11. Thinking and breathing are two tough things.

Giuliani never did anything for the firemen.

(Part of his story is about the radios, which is a real beef the firemen have.)

People getting sicker every day. Something needs to be changed. Lots of people getting sick.

Outran 2 falling, watched 1. Saw people falling and exploding.

Stuff fell on them, trapping them at one point on the third floor. William Rodriguez got them out.

We thought explosions were fires from the impact.

First plane, mistake, second, we're under attack - three second warning for us about the second plane? Come on.

Dylan on the guy that announced in 2 for people to go back, when Schroeder says that that guy "probably hung himself": "I would hope so!" Schroeder just prays for his soul.

S: They wanted to get everything out as quick - they found the gold. If Giuliani's family was in the Pit, we'd dig to China.

Q: A closet with a burnt body - a worker?

S: didn't know. Burnt beyond recognition.

Lobby - every window exploded - inches of glass. It wasn't from the jet fuel, no way. Distance. It looked like a bomb went off - no fire. (Couldn't be clear when this was. I think it was when he first arrived. The questioners made no attempt on film to determine this.)

(Fish, fish, fishing. Leading the witness. Misinforming the witness.)

S: I was blown across a highway as 2 collapsed.

Q: Lot of energy (god, you can hear the wheels turning.)

S: Blew a firetruck off someone trapped underneath. Saved his life.

Plane and building collapsing, it makes you wonder. Too many things that went wrong. Just me being in there. Everyone in that lobby knew it. Chaos everywhere.

Fires burning for weeks. Pockets all over the site.

Q (Dylan): Molten metal and steel.

S: Not the molten. The heat was beyond. The heavy duty fire. Absolutely something else.

How other planes got to where they got to, after we were attacked. It's a crime.

Somebody dropped the ball in the Pentagon.

(Rick Siegal? There's a third questioner (and maybe four) besides Dylan and Luke. Doesn't sound like Korey or Jason)

S: You wonder, you wonder. (Very often, Schroeder says this. He hesitates to go too far in categorical statements. He wonders and then he offers his personal opinion, so described, below.)

S: Explosions all in the Financial district, and steel going all that way. It could have been explosives in the building.

I believe personally that it was something more than the planes.

9/11 Commission was a circle jerk. Going through the motions. They didn't do their job. They cleaned up everything. It's a big lie.

Living in a nightmare for six years.

So what we are going to get here from the truthers is Distinct Delay, Explosions, Schroeder says No Way, Giuliani Knew.

Dylan will have some really choice quotes to use Schroeder for. At one point, I even said that you could hear the wheels turning in how the questioners talked.

However, there is a great moment where someone (either Luke or Dylan) asks how the building collapses sounded different from other building collapses, and he says something like, "I don't want to go there. How many other 110 story buildings..."

What I hear is someone with some real grievances, frustrated, with several questions and ready for some sensible sounding answers.

[Pardalis]

OMG now genius Dylan is going on about some Columbine conspiracy... :faint:

[Pardalis]

However, there is a great moment where someone (either Luke or Dylan) asks how the building collapses sounded different from other building collapses, and he says something like, "I don't want to go there. How many other 110 story buildings..."


Yeah, I picked up on that one. How is one supposed to know what a building this size is supposed to sound like when it collapses?

:boggled:

There's also a bit later when genius Dylan asks about the molten steel in the rubble... talk about misleading questions... :rolleyes:

[Revolutionary91]

So 500 workers and Marty Hardy the fruit seller were in on the plot?

I think the point is that they were warned. There was that case of the student on 9/10 who pointed to the towers and said they would be gone tomorrow. A lot of people seemed to know.

The above is true, the teacher reported it to the fbi.

[Mince]

Dylan said yesterday that a friend of this guy is also going to go public and he apparently has some new footage that Dylan wants from him.


New footage? Great. That's what I'm talking about...empirical evidence, not earwitness interviews. We shall see. I wonder if the anonymous firefighter with "new footage" is not just a ploy to let you guys down easy because Final Cut is going to be delayed again. Something to the effect of: "Guys, were delaying Final Cut so we can add in the new firefighters' statements and footage. Trust me, it will be worth it. It will be Christmas, Easter, Chanukah and Labor Day all rolled into one." This could be another false flag announcement by Avery as a pretext to delay his video.

[Mince]

I think the point is that they were warned. There was that case of the student on 9/10 who pointed to the towers and said they would be gone tomorrow. A lot of people seemed to know.

The above is true, the teacher reported it to the fbi.

Cite?

[Unsecured Coins]

I wonder if he thinks being a college reject is still better than being a soldier... that HASN'T deserted.

[CHF]

However, there is a great moment where someone (either Luke or Dylan) asks how the building collapses sounded different from other building collapses, and he says something like, "I don't want to go there. How many other 110 story buildings..."

So he admits that he has no idea what an event like this is supposed to sound like and then takes guesses as to what it was that he heard.

I'm afraid that isn't going to kick start a revolution, Dylan.

[boloboffin]

Oh, this is bloody fantastic. Dylan's post about the "ridiculous ad homs" going on here is at 7:17 pm. Please note the time that I posted this thread - 7:16 pm. At first I only posted the Google Video link, and then added the link to Firehouse magazine.

Dylan has no problems lying.

ETA:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g171/boloboffin2/911/Dylanpost.png

Obviously, Dylan had the JREF site open so that he could pounce. Who's got the ridiculous obsession with whom?

And the "instead of dealing with what he actually says" line? Incredible! How about giving me a chance to actually listen to what he says before jumping on me for not listening to what he says?

[Mince]

I wonder if he thinks being a college reject is still better than being a soldier... that HASN'T deserted.


What's Rowe's status anyway? It's like the story is HUGE for 36 hours then just drops off the face of the Earth. Was he ever discharged? What's his current physical location? Just curious.

Oh, message boy, I have an errand for you. Go ask Avery about Rowe's status for me, would you?

[NYCEMT86]

I wonder if he thinks being a college reject is still better than being a soldier... that HASN'T deserted.

Well I am sure Dylan would have dropped out of College anyways...seeing how it has to do with research and hard work.

and I am pretty sure he would have deserted if he was in the military once he learned of those covert operations.......



This kid is about earning a dollar the easy way and we all have seen what that gives us....4 editions of the same movie.... :rolleyes:

[Mince]

Oh, this is bloody fantastic. Dylan's post about the "ridiculous ad homs" going on here is at 7:17 pm. Please note the time that I posted this thread - 7:16 pm. At first I only posted the Google Video link, and then added the link to Firehouse magazine.

Dylan has no problems lying.


And since when is accusing someone of mass murder without foundation not a ridiculous ad hominem?

[Revolutionary91]

Cite?

I got the date wrong but otherswise it is spot on

On September 6 - five days before the attack - Antoinette DiLorenzo, who teaches English as a second language to a class of Pakistani immigrants, led a class discussion about world events. She asked a freshman (his name has been withheld): "What are you looking at?" The youth was peering out the third floor window toward lower Manhattan. After he made the remark about the World Trade center not being there next week, the teacher didn't immediately think much of it, though it stuck in her mind.
On September 11, school was canceled after the attack and again the following day. On Thursday September 13, a clearly agitated DiLorenzo, saying she had been afraid to come forward, reported the incident to the principal's office. "It scared the hell out of everyone," according to a source at the school.
The police and FBI were alerted and twelve NYPD officers entered the school and secured DiLorenzo's classroom for three hours, locking the doors with the students inside. While the students were brought lunch and a movie and told to be calm, the youth in question and his older brother, a sophomore, were taken to be interrogated by the FBI, stationed at the police precinct nearby.
DiLorenzo, the key to the believability of this story, was also questioned. She was described by school officials as having a superb and unblemished record in the New York school system. A police source described her as "100 percent credible."
Moreover, according to police, the youth confirmed having made the September 6 statement about the towers. At the moment he did so, his older brother elbowed him, said he had been "kidding," and the youth in question agreed. The younger brother seemed upset and said he was "having a bad day." When asked why, he said that his father was supposed to come back from Pakistan that day. Further details of the interrogation are unclear, in part because the FBI is not discussing it.
Because of the suspension of air travel, it took the father a few days to return. About a week after September 11, the father visited the school and angrily asked why his sons had been interrogated by the authorities. He said that his family's constitutional rights had been violated.
Having done nothing wrong beyond spreading a rumor that turned out to be true, the student was returned to his classroom. He remains in the school.
The FBI placed the boy's family under surveillance but, according to sources, does not see a connection to the plot to blow up the towers. The case remains under investigation, but with thousands of leads, it doesn't appear to be going anywhere.


http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/msnbc101201.html

[Unsecured Coins]

What's Rowe's status anyway? It's like the story is HUGE for 36 hours then just drops off the face of the Earth. Was he ever discharged? What's his current physical location? Just curious.

I have no idea. I could try to make a few calls but I honestly think it would be fruitless.

[Pardalis]

However, there is a great moment where someone (either Luke or Dylan) asks how the building collapses sounded different from other building collapses, and he says something like, "I don't want to go there. How many other 110 story buildings..."

More precisely Dylan asks him:

Could you describe the noise of what you heard when those buildings came down... obviously 'boom' but there's some people... cuz obviously hundreds of firefighters have corroborated your story stating that there were explosions going off before the collapse, we heard a loud one during the collapse, we heard a number of explosions after both buildings had even fallen, hum... did it sound to you like a building naturally coming down due to gravity or did it sound more like there might have been something else...


This was Dylan's misleading question...

Wow, great journalism Dylan.

:mad:

[NYCEMT86]

Dylan Avery: "Sue me for leaving things out"

We would take the shirt off his back if we sued over everything he left out.


To leave things out...thats pretty dishonest Dylan...didn't your mother raise you with some ethics and morals? tsk tsk

[Alex C]

Little off topic, if Dylan directed this, he needs to read up on some framing technicals.

[boloboffin]

This was Dylan's misleading question...

Wow, great journalism Dylan.

:mad:

Misleading and leading. "Please, sir, let me jog your memory and corral you with what other people have said and give you appropriate words to respond with and then, tell us what you thought you heard."

It's like he has specific places in the Final Cut that he still needs some rocking quotes for.

And why did he "have" to cut down the interview from an hour to 47 minutes? Why the "have to"?

[Brainster]

How, if the plotters were American, would a freshman Pakistani student know about it?

[CHF]

cuz obviously hundreds of firefighters have corroborated your story stating that there were explosions going off before the collapse

Yet only this one firefighter is saying it was due to bombs, and he admits his memory is bad and that he has no idea what such a situation is supposed to sound like.

Way to go, truthers.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

5 big lies of Dylan Avery & Jason Bermas:

1) They said they weren't in it for the money. Then why put out LC:FC on pay per view, selling DVDs & merchandise on the LC website?

2) Dylan claims to have evidence & that his buddy Jason Bermas has the evidence. While listening to them on the radio, Jason hasn't presented anything.

3) Both of them are misquoting Guliani as we speak. Putting words in his mouth. They'll lie they never put words in anyones mouth.

4) Dylan said that the money he gets is going to the 9/11 Families & other 9/11 oranizations. We'd like to know where & to whom!

5) They're lying about John Schroeder's comments.

[Mince]

I got the date wrong but otherswise it is spot on


http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/msnbc101201.html


Interesting. Thank you.

[Pardalis]

Misleading and leading. "Please, sir, let me jog your memory and corral you with what other people have said and give you appropriate words to respond with and then, tell us what you thought you heard."

It's like he has specific places in the Final Cut that he still needs some rocking quotes for.

And why did he "have" to cut down the interview from an hour to 47 minutes? Why the "have to"?

Yeah, I wonder what bit of this interview will propitiously be in the final cut. ;)

[Revolutionary91]

Little off topic, if Dylan directed this, he needs to read up on some framing technicals.

Please elaborate. Could I see some of your work?

[Pardalis]

Dylan's agent is getting angry.

[VespaGuy]

How, if the plotters were American, would a freshman Pakistani student know about it?
I was thinking the exact same thing. If this were true, this would seem to be evidence against an inside job.

[Revolutionary91]

How, if the plotters were American, would a freshman Pakistani student know about it?

Good question. You are getting better at this skepticism. It happened. The teacher was in a terrible state the police and fbi were involved. So how did he know? Pakistan are being fingered by many truthers.

[Mince]

Little off topic, if Dylan directed this, he needs to read up on some framing technicals.


Although you are correct, Avery is not a film maker. He is a video editor with at least a little technical ability in that regard. Making a film requires an artistic aptitude that Avery does not have/hasn't demonstrated, as evidenced by the technicality you mention.

[boloboffin]

Please elaborate. Could I see some of your work?

Why would someone have to be a filmmaker to recognize substandard framing? Substandard framing is right there on the screen. The most you have to know is to recognize what's bothering you about the shot you're looking at.

[NYCEMT86]

Dylan's agent is getting angry.

:dl:


What he gonna do? Sue us for NOT leaving things out?

[Pardalis]

Dylan's song is 'sheep to the slaughter'... hmmm (still listening to the radio show)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Oh, this is bloody fantastic. Dylan's post about the "ridiculous ad homs" going on here is at 7:17 pm. Please note the time that I posted this thread - 7:16 pm. At first I only posted the Google Video link, and then added the link to Firehouse magazine.

Dylan has no problems lying.


I'm pretty Dylan was responding to this, by 8den: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2845029&posted=1#post2845029

I posted a link to the post further up in this thread, but it was the wrong link (now corrected).

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Good question. You are getting better at this skepticism. It happened. The teacher was in a terrible state the police and fbi were involved. So how did he know? Pakistan are being fingered by many truthers.


We can also posit the paranormal, but somehow I doubt even you'd be willing to go there...

[Pardalis]

Again with the pyroclastic clouds... (still listening to the radio show)

ETA: their WTC7 interview is "going to blow the world away"

Oh my... :boxedin:

[VespaGuy]

Why would someone have to be a filmmaker to recognize substandard framing?

Truther Logic 101: One must be a filmmaker to comment on shoddy framing, but you don't even need a high school diploma to argue about strucural engineering.

[Alt+F4]

Dylan is really slating you guys on air now.

Why not here?

[NYCEMT86]

He mentioned it on the radio tonight. As well as Gravy. They spent most of what I heard trying to belittle us.

[Brainster]

Good question. You are getting better at this skepticism.

You don't have a clue who I am, do you? Might be a good idea to ask Dylan.

It happened. The teacher was in a terrible state the police and fbi were involved. So how did he know? Pakistan are being fingered by many truthers.

What you mean to say is that the teacher reported it, after the fact. That seems to be established by the Alter story.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Listening to Dylan & Jason just talking about 9/11 & laughing about it makes them immature little 20 somethings.

Each time they laugh, they're laughing at the 9/11 Victims & their Families.

[Revolutionary91]

You don't have a clue who I am, do you? Might be a good idea to ask Dylan.



What you mean to say is that the teacher reported it, after the fact. That seems to be established by the Alter story.

I dont know who anyone is here. Are you a celebrity or something?

Answer the question, how did he know?

[Mince]

Truther Logic 101: One must be a filmmaker to comment on shoddy framing, but you don't even need a high school diploma to argue about strucural engineering.


Oooh, that stings. Or at least it would sting if I were a 15-year-old CT.

[VespaGuy]

Answer the question, how did he know?

Where does it say he knew?

[Revolutionary91]

Where does it say he knew?


You think he was just guessing?

[Brainster]

Rudkowski lies at about 31:09, when he says:

[Guiliani] said personally that he got a warning that the towers were going to collapse and that's when he started evacuating away from his command bunker in Building 7.

In fact, Giuliani was at 75 Barclay Street as he makes clear in this video:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4KtDIOS8-EM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4KtDIOS8-EM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Looks like Luke is learning quite a bit from Alex Jones.

[boloboffin]

I'm pretty Dylan was responding to this, by 8den: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2845029&posted=1#post2845029

I posted a link to the post further up in this thread, but it was the wrong link (now corrected).

:D So it was simply a coincidence that Dylan's 7:17 post about 8den's 11:43am post happened the minute after I posted a new thread about Schroeder?

Perhaps so. So when Revolutionary showed up nine minutes later with his clipboard hot in his hand, he choose my thread instead of the other thread in which the post Dylan meant was in.

Fine. I have no problem denying malice as an explanation of what can be attributed to confusion.

Although Dylan should really look into what ad hominem means. It's not ad hominem if it's true and relevant to the situation at hand.

[VespaGuy]

You think he was just guessing?

No. As a matter of fact neither of us even know exactly what he said. We don't even know what the teacher said he said. All we know is that the teacher said that the student made a remark about the World Trade Center not being there next week.

That's a pretty big jump to saying "OMG! The student knew!!"

[Brainster]

I dont know who anyone is here. Are you a celebrity or something?

Ask Dylan.

Answer the question, how did he know?

Condoleezza Rice told him? Or is it just one of those oddball coincidences?

[Drudgewire]

That's a pretty big jump to saying "OMG! The student knew!!"
There'd be no truth movement without lots of those jumps.

[Revolutionary91]

Ask Dylan.



Condoleezza Rice told him? Or is it just one of those oddball coincidences?

I know who you are. Pat from SLC. And? Are you like one of these people in big brother that comes out and says dont you know who I am when they want a good seat in a restaurant?

Yeah, must just be a coincidence. And you call us deniers? lol

[Mince]

Please elaborate. Could I see some of your work?


A motion picture is merely a series of still photographs. Framing is very important in photography and, hence, cinematography. The idea of framing, mostly, is to make the shot, or the frame, aesthetically pleasing to the audience while being an artistic representation of some concept, perhaps a smaller idealization of the movie's overall theme. Aesthetics include color, focus, lighting, balance, angle, et. al. Artistic representation includes using a low camera angle to give the appearance that a character (the one we see) is superior or oppressive and the subject (the character we don't see who's perspective the camera is showing us) is lesser in stature, physically and philosophically. Of course, these are but a few elements. Avery uses none of these techniques. He merely "films" like an amateur on vacation. I wasn't expecting anything less. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course; but to say he is a filmmaker, especially having viewed this and other works of his....puhleeeeese. And yes, you can see my work, when it's finished. I'm a student at SIUC film school and working on my first production project. It will be completed near the end of September (no really) and I'd be happy to show it to you if you still had the interest.

[Mince]

You think he was just guessing?


Well we don't know, do we?

[Revolutionary91]

asthetically pleasing to the audience while being an artistic representation of some concept.

Thats all well and good for Lord of the Rings, but this was an interview with a fireman about the death of 3000 people. Asthetics is kinda low on the agenda.

[T.A.M.]

I know who you are. Pat from SLC. And? Are you like one of these people in big brother that comes out and says dont you know who I am when they want a good seat in a restaurant?

Yeah, must just be a coincidence. And you call us deniers? lol

The emperor would love you young padiwan...all that anger...focus, all of that anger, let it build within you, let it move you...to the dark side...

WHAAHAAAHAAA

TAM:)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Perhaps so. So when Revolutionary showed up nine minutes later with his clipboard hot in his hand, he choose my thread instead of the other thread in which the post Dylan meant was in.


I found that very odd, myself. His first post in this thread seemed so random when I read it, but that was before seeing 8den's post. It's still kind of random, though...

[cloudshipsrule]

You think he was just guessing?

There are two names associated with the story surrounding the kid looking out the window and commenting on the WTC towers. Searching the names on the Internet does nothing to bring credibility to the story. The 'investigator' was fired from his job after following up on the teacher's story, and nothing else was said about the story at all by the investigator or anyone else.

It has all the classic signs of an Urban Legend.

I believe the entire story is fabricated.

[VespaGuy]

There'd be no truth movement without lots of those jumps.

Exactly. Look at the video in the OP. Does Dylan and The Gang ever ask real investigative questions? Here's some questions that a good investigator (READ: One without an agenda) would ask regarding explosions:

Do explosions automatically indicate explosives?
Have you ever been in an office fire with explosions?
If so, what caused those explosions?

and so on.

Dylan will never ask these questions to firefighters because the answers make all of his "oooo, isn't that suspicious?"-wink-wink-nudge-nudging look like the crap that it is.

LCFC will be full of waffling baloney like this. Dylan won't come out and say anything concrete (that's how he plans on making it debunkable - he won't make one solid claim) He'll never come out and say there were bombs in the building, instead he'll play stupid and show the firefighter quotes about explosions and then move on to the next topic with a wink, a nudge, and a not-so-funky techno beat.

Hi Dylan! Please, please, please get LCFC into theaters... There's a whole world full of experts that haven't even heard your joke, yet.

[Revolutionary91]

The emperor would love you young padiwan...all that anger...focus, all of that anger, let it build within you, let it move you...to the dark side...

WHAAHAAAHAAA

TAM:)

10cc of Kool Vax quickly nurse.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Thats all well and good for Lord of the Rings, but this was an interview with a fireman about the death of 3000 people. Asthetics is kinda low on the agenda.


He could have just left those 13 extra minutes in. It would have been much easier and a lot more transparent; we get the "whole 'truth'".

[Mince]

Thats all well and good for Lord of the Rings, but this was an interview with a fireman about the death of 3000 people. Asthetics is kinda low on the agenda.


That's a fair point. However, a true filmmaker takes care in everything he produces. A mere interview is not so to the true filmmaker. The idea in anything you produce is to impact and influence the audience. This is achieved more effectively using sound aesthetic and artistic principles, regardless of content. Actual filmmakers know and practice this.

[Mince]

He could have just left those 13 extra minutes in. It would have been much easier and a lot more transparent; we get the "whole 'truth'".


Yeah, but then that doesn't leave an option for The Director's Cut. I'm sure Avery agonized over the decision.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

The emperor would love you young padiwan...all that anger...focus, all of that anger, let it build within you, let it move you...to the dark side...

WHAAHAAAHAAA

TAM:)


http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/i/bush_darthvader.jpg
Come to the DARK SIDE!

[T.A.M.]

Exactly. Look at the video in the OP. Does Dylan and The Gang ever ask real investigative questions? Here's some questions that a good investigator (READ: One without an agenda) would ask regarding explosions:

Do explosions automatically indicate explosives?
Have you ever been in an office fire with explosions?
If so, what caused those explosions?

and so on.

Dylan will never ask these questions to firefighters because the answers make all of his "oooo, isn't that suspicious?"-wink-wink-nudge-nudging look like the crap that it is.

LCFC will be full of waffling baloney like this. Dylan won't come out and say anything concrete (that's how he plans on making it debunkable - he won't make one solid claim) He'll never come out and say there were bombs in the building, instead he'll play stupid and show the firefighter quotes about explosions and then move on to the next topic with a wink, a nudge, and a not-so-funky techno beat.

Hi Dylan! Please, please, please get LCFC into theaters... There's a whole world full of experts that haven't even heard your joke, yet.

LC:FC has likely gone through the same process that a commerical filmmaker would put his project through when initially given an NC-17 rating (or in LC's case a "completely insane" rating) and knowing the audience will be small, desperately cuts and slashes to get it into PG-13 shape.

Pods...out, noone believes it...Missile hits pentagon....out, noone believes it...Fake cell phone calls...probably out, though we believe it, we will lose fans as it insults victims...unrelated to CT issue like first responders lung illnesses...In, way in, as it garnishes sympathy, and makes debunkers look bad if they touch it....

I personally can't wait to tear strips-- I mean watch LC:FC.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/i/bush_darthvader.jpg
Come to the DARK SIDE!

That has made my week here worthwhile...thank you...ROFLMAO

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

10cc of Kool Vax quickly nurse.

Oh no we are losing him...he is making a joke...he is being...funny...stop him, make him angry again....

TAM:)

[Undesired Walrus]

Hi Dylan.

I know you like to think you are 'street' and such, but you are nothing more than a coward. A coward who ignores the vast majority of fireman who ridicule your idea, then slapping 'hero' on, to make it feel like you respect them when in all honesty you may as well be having the spitting brigade surrounding the 300+ graves of fireman from 9/11. Supporting a story you know to be untrue cant be something easy to live with. You are a joke lad, a complete joke.

You have an obsession with reading this forum, but never the balls to come over and defend yourself. Why? Because you know you will be ripped to shreds by Gravy and co. It'll be Hardfire all over again!

Oh, and I pray you didnt direct that video. When you dont have access to MTV graphic cards, your incompetence as a film director shines through.

Woops, too 'Ad Hom' for you? Maybe you should look up what that means. Then read over posts in which you advise Gravy to get some 'pussy'.

[pomeroo]

How, if the plotters were American, would a freshman Pakistani student know about it?



Shhhh! Your question is sensible and obvious. Conspiracy liars will hate it!

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

That has made my week here worthwhile...thank you...ROFLMAO

TAM:)


Thought you'd like that TAM! I've got plenty more pictures to put up just in case for such an occasion. :D

[T.A.M.]

Please do,

Worth a thousand words, a picture is...

TAM:)

[Unsecured Coins]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/bushsatan5vv.jpg

[8den]

Message from Dylan


I think Dylan is refering to this (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2845029&postcount=45) post of mine.

Here's a few points.

1) John himself volunteered to come forward. This interview was not forced on him in any way, shape or form, and he has full recognition of the purpose of the interview.

Gosh Dylan we're in similie mode here again. Constantly asking some to review events that clearly have deeply effected this man, a man who freely admits his memory is shot, and confused, and suffers from what sounds like PTS, as well as physical effects of his experience on ground zero, is reprehensible. I've walked away from films were directors have violated people to a lesser degree.

2) I did not ask any leading questions. I asked him honest, straight-forward questions that he could have said either a "Yes" or "No" to.


Bull effing c r a p.

Leading question.

Do you think there was anything strange about the explosions in the lobby?

Non Leading question.

Was there anything strange about the explosion in the lobby?

Which one did you ask?

3) I put no words in his mouth, and I had to edit an hour-long interview down to 47 minutes. Sue me for leaving some things out.

Mate that can actually happen.

See you read this forum ole Dylan, and you're not speaking to some candy ass 15 year old. I've edited news for a half dozen major news agencies, I've worked on everything from award winning documentaries to 8 figure hollywood blockbusters.

Dylan the bit before the 500 people didnt turn up for work is an unspeakably awful edit that beggars the question what was the material you saw fit to cut out before your awful cut in. Furthermore why you felt it necessary to include a rambling rant about the golf game he played on Sept 10th. Or his confused account over the re establishment of the base. Frankly your editorial decisions are idiotic, why keep in the fact that your witness admits he's unreliable. Why constantly repeat information.

See Dylan if you'd made it into film school, or even had a clue about film and struture you'd know how you were messing up..

4) No one has yet to provide a plausible explanation for the points John raises.

Which points, that the fruit seller knew 500 people wouldnt turn up, or his confused account of the events on the day, from a man with admitted memory problems.

They guy is a hero. A hero under immense emotional, mental and physical strain, shame on you Dylan to exploit his pain and suffering so you can look unjustifably smug yet again.

[LashL]

There is a lot wrong with Mr. Schroeder's account. Seriously wrong.

However, I do not attribute that to malice. The man is obviously unwell, and obviously has some serious issues (some legitimate, no doubt) with what he perceives as unjust treatment after the most traumatic events of his life. It is not, therefore, surprising that he makes some obvious and glaring factual errors in his account.

The troofers, on the other hand, were utterly shameless (and shameful) with their grossly leading questions, their constant regurgitation of false troofer "facts" in framing their questions, and their insinuation (which they now trumpet as "fact") that it was William Rodriguez who appeared with a flashlight on the third floor to help Mr. Schroeder find another stairwell. (It could not have been Rodriguez if any of Rodriguez' multiple versions of events are true.)

[T.A.M.]

More accurately....

Leading Question:

Do you think there was anything strange about the explosions in the lobby?

Appropriate, Non-leading question:

With as much detail as you can, tell me what you saw and heard in the lobby?

TAM:)

[LashL]

Leading question.

Do you think there was anything strange about the explosions in the lobby?

Non Leading question.

Was there anything strange about the explosion in the lobby?



Those are both leading questions, actually ;)

Non-leading questions are, generally, confined to who, what, when, where, how, and why questions without any content that suggests the answer. Asking "do you think there was anything strange..." or "was there anything strange..." are both leading because they prompt the person to focus on and respond to the word "strange" as opposed to merely asking the person what they saw, heard, did, etc.

Technically, asking "what, if anything, was strange about the explosion in the lobby?" could be considered a non-leading question. Lawyers often use the injection of the words "if anything" to try to render a leading question into a non-leading question, so as to avoid an objection that the question is leading, but most judges won't buy such a transparent attempt to get around the rules if there is anything contentious about the point at all.

[LashL]

More accurately....

Leading Question:

Do you think there was anything strange about the explosions in the lobby?

Appropriate, Non-leading question:

With as much detail as you can, tell me what you saw and heard in the lobby?

TAM:)

Nailed it in one, TAM ;)

[Alex C]

Look Revo, I know the interview is the important piece, but setting up a proper shot with correct thirds and looking room should be a 20 second job for a 'filmmaker'. Documentaries take time setting up their shots so they they are appealing and therefor have more impact. It just seems strange that years into his LCFC production, he doesn't seem to be able to get the technicals down for an important interview with an actual firefighter.

I know I'm just ripping at Dylan's competence rather than the content of the interview, that's because I've grown cynical and cba to watch it, I know it's jsut going to be a firefighter saying he heard bangs and has attributed them all to bombs, the only one of hundreds to do so.

Plus it is a nice psychological exhibition, shows Dylan didn't bother learning his facts on filming before he started, thought knew it all perhaps? It's good to do some proper reading before diving headlong into things Dylan :rolleyes:

[Brainache]

Why do they call it a "sit down"? The guy is standing up.

Anyway, yeah the framing sucks. The backlight from the sky is a real problem. But at least we can hear the FF OK.

I conclude that DA is a better filmaker than Lyte Trip, but not by much.

[beachnut]

Message from Dylan


http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13481
Thank you message boy. What a loyal "LC NAZI" you are. (as in Dylan is the "censor NAZI" like the soup NAZI, no truth for you!)

[beachnut]

"My mental status is shot" (john) - I think Dylan has found someone with the same IQ as himself. Good job Dylan. At least we heard from the guy his brain is shot.

A fire fighter since March 1990, a long time verger of fires and an expert of 17 months is now the truth patsy for Dylan. Not 17 years, 17 months.

Dylan has found the perfect patsy for spreading the truth. Instead of Dylan making up lies, he takes the opinions of a firefighter, a veteran firefighter of 17 months (not years), and uses his opinions to push 9/11 truth. Dylan has learned from the hearsay king, Griffin, to use what other say, never be the one holding the bag. Good job Dylan, you have learned your craft of deception well.

Actually, you listen to this poor guy, being used by 9/11 truth, and he actually debunks 9/11 truth better than Dylan does himself. Anyone who has had training for accident investigation knows that you have to take witness testimony and then use the real events to make sense out of the them. This guy has serious problem after 5 years with time compression/expansion and zero experience in the things that happen on 9/11. The aircraft impacts were enough to all the damage he experienced. Unless Dylan thinks an impact like a 2000 pound bomb does not shake your cage. Gee, a 500 pound bomb a mile away from me in Desert Strom rocked my car and blew out my office windows. A mile away, and you think an impact 1100 feet away would not do anything. It would blow windows, it would blow up elevator shafts with overpressure, it would do every single thing John talks about. Dylan you are either real dumb, or making too much money to really try and mess it up by finding the truth.

With Dylan publishing this as the "truth" he has stepped back and become another hearsay king like Griffin. Like blind guys commenting on an elephant, we have Dylan cranking out the "truth", missing reality. Dylan is a liar if he knows the truth, or is he dumb as dirt?

[8den]

More accurately....

Leading Question:

Do you think there was anything strange about the explosions in the lobby?

Appropriate, Non-leading question:

With as much detail as you can, tell me what you saw and heard in the lobby?

TAM:)

Good point, alas it was 3:59am when I got to this thread, and my post was a little less lucid than I'd like. And a couple of spelling errors came through as well. :blush:

[sleahead]

3) I put no words in his mouth, and I had to edit an hour-long interview down to 47 minutes. Sue me for leaving some things out

Rev, please can you ask the master filmmaker why it was necessary to edit a 60 minute piece down to 47 minutes for the internet. Please can you also pass on my request for him to post all of the footage, uncut.

Thanks.

[firecoins]

This firefighter has presented nothing that would differ with the official story other than he doesn't understand the time delays and how the other buildings in the WTC complex got on fire. He doesn't understand what happaned to WTC 7 so it must have been what exactly?

Of course this firefighter was working. His adrenaline was up seconds can feel like hours. I as an EMT have experienced this rush. I don't come away with any doubts about what happaned on 9/11 from this interview.

[parky76]

With all do respect to this fireman, it doesn't appear that he did any actual research about the fires in the towers or in WTC 7. Did he talk to ANYONE who was in or around building 7? Did he read at all about how the fuel spilled down the elevator shafts and exploded in the lobbies of the towers? Did he talk to ANYONE?

I have done a little research into 9-11..and I don't claim to be an expert o any of it. But I also don't appear in videos and make claims wihout having done just a little bit of research.

It appears that I know more about what happened on 9-11...then an FDNY fireman who was actually there that day. How sad.

[sleahead]

Rev, my little Dylanista, any news for me on the Schroeder footage?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

With all do respect to this fireman, it doesn't appear that he did any actual research about the fires in the towers or in WTC 7. Did he talk to ANYONE who was in or around building 7? Did he read at all about how the fuel spilled down the elevator shafts and exploded in the lobbies of the towers? Did he talk to ANYONE?


Well, I think this can be "forgiven", as he wasn't presenting any kind of research. He was merely giving his interpretation of his experiences that day.

This interview doesn't help the "Truth" movement at all, for a few reasons:

1) Schroeder never saw anything to confirm his belief that there were bombs going off.

2) Part of his claim apparently contradicts that of another firefighter from his own firehouse. This puts the truthers in a bind (technically, it still leaves them in a bind).

3) Schroeder readily admits that his memory is shot. This begs the question of when he came to the conclusion that there were bombs in the towers. Was it immediately? Or was it years later, as he was recalling (and possibly mis-remembering) his experiences?

[T.A.M.]

Well, I think this can be "forgiven", as he wasn't presenting any kind of research. He was merely giving his interpretation of his experiences that day.

This interview doesn't help the "Truth" movement at all, for a few reasons:

1) Schroeder never saw anything to confirm his belief that there were bombs going off.

2) Part of his claim apparently contradicts that of another firefighter from his own firehouse. This puts the truthers in a bind (technically, it still leaves them in a bind).

3) Schroeder readily admits that his memory is shot. This begs the question of when he came to the conclusion that there were bombs in the towers. Was it immediately? Or was it years later, as he was recalling (and possibly mis-remembering) his experiences?


I can almost guarantee this will be placed somewhere in LC:FC, because, despite what Rev thinks, it is not us here who are the Kings of "Appeal to Emotion", it is Dylan...The GZ dust angle, now this...he is clearly going to pad his crockumentary with angles to appeal to emotion, both to try and win fans, but also to make it harder for debunkers to criticize it.

TAM:)

[sleahead]

Rev, please please can you do me the courtesy of a reply to my posts above.

Thanks.

[BigAl]

I watched the video and I didn't see anything new. If anything it helped dispel 9-11 myths.

One thing I found interesting, is that the guy would see the Muslim at the fruit stand every day. But on 9-11..the guy was gone. Hmmmm.

?

How did he know the guy was Muslim. A good proportion of Arabs in this country are Christian.
(source: American Islam by Barrett)

[A W Smith]

I had difficulty following his time line. First hes at the waterfront ready to jump in the Hudson then hes back in the building and it is falling down around him. His primary beef seems to be the cleanup sickness and lack of government assistance and attention. Toward the end Lucas and Dylan seem to be leading him to arguments of incredulity. I don't find it incredulous that aviation fuel ponded in various areas of the building and elevator shafts before finding an ignition source 5 mins or more later. This video shows nothing but a pair of troofers taking advantage of someone who clearly still has post traumatic stress syndrome.