Amy Winehouse

[corplinx]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=474130&in_page_id=1773

they tried to make me go to rehab but I say I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM

[Darth Rotor]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=474130&in_page_id=1773

they tried to make me go to rehab but I say I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM
Amy is welcomed to go the way of Jimmy Hendrix, Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, and Keith Moon, among others, and pursue chemical bliss until she dies of it.

They'll always find another rock star to make number one records.

DR

[Overman]

They tried to make me eat a sandwich but I said...NO NO NO!

They tried to do my makeup but I said... NO NO NO!

They tried to....

[corplinx]

I liked her better fat.

[Pardalis]

That's so sad, I think she's a very unique artist (someone on this very forum made me discover her not too long ago). :(

[strathmeyer]

She doesn't need rehab, she just needs a sammich.

[WildCat]

She does have big hair.

http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/amy17_small.jpg

You guys really think she's a train wreck in progress? :p

[Katana]

I actually like her voice and her music except for that damned "No, No, No". Good grief. Can you say, "irritating"?

[Pardalis]

I actually like her voice and her music except for that damned "No, No, No". Good grief. Can you say, "irritating"?

That one's called "Rehab" ;)

[Katana]

That one's called "Rehab" ;)


:notm :notm :notm















Just kidding. :D

[Pardalis]

I really hope she gets better. Stone Temple Pilot's singer Scott Weiland had heroin problems for quite some time and he seems to be out of the woods now (cross my fingers).

[shemp]

I wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot needle.

[RichardR]

That doofus, Blake - her husband.

They tried to make him sign a prenup



But he said no, no, no

[MaxHardcore]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfdl7-E80Q&mode=related&search=

[RandFan]

I wish her well.

As to her music, well, it just goes to show that art is subjective. I like her tats. That's with an "a".

[richardm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfdl7-E80Q&mode=related&search=

Oh dear :(


I know it's last-minute and a bit irresponsible. But I'm a perfectionist and would rather reschedule a show than do it half-heartedly


Source. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6937778.stm)

I suppose she's seen that clip and realises that going onstage wasted may not be such a splendid career move. Either that or her agent has.

[richardm]

Er, Tired I mean. Not wasted. Nope. Tired. Exhausted, even.

[WildCat]

At her performance at Lollapalooza in Chicago last Saturday (where I took the above pic) she seemed sober. Of course, the gig was scheduled at 2:15 in the afternoon. The organizers probably didn't want to press their luck with a later start. :p

Oh yeah, she did play the Rehab song.

[jsiv]

Well with a name like that...

[dudalb]

I see that Winehouse and Lohan seem to be reading from the same page.

[RichardR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfdl7-E80Q&mode=related&search=
That was pretty bad.

In fairness to her - she was good at the Brits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fU6Afa-3c).

Rehab's for quitters anyway.

[WildCat]

My buddy and I used to love to see The Beat Farmers when they came to town. At one show, we were talking to front man "Country" Dick Montana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Dick_Montana), and my friend sdaid " I've seeen you everywhere in this town" and Country Dick said "You ain't seen me in rehab". And then he died on stage in BC.

[Damien Evans]

Amy is welcomed to go the way of Jimmy Hendrix, Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, and Keith Moon, among others, and pursue chemical bliss until she dies of it.

They'll always find another rock star to make number one records.

DR

Or, slightly alternatively, the way of the self proclaimed "Vegetable Man", Pink Floyd's original lead singer, Syd Barrett

How I wish he was here...:(

[Miss Anthrope]

I read today she's NOT in rehab. Sad.

I absolutely love her second album. But she looks like she's on death's door. Clean it up, girl!

[dudalb]

Looks as if she is going to follow the example of Janis Joplin in every way possible.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=474130&in_page_id=1773

they tried to make me go to rehab but I say I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM

Someone needs to get that girl a sandwich!

[Psi Baba]

She doesn't need rehab, she just needs a sammich.A chipped ham sammich, perhaps? Or better yet, Primanti Bros. That'll fatten her up! ;)

[Q-Source]

She looks awful but she has a great voice. What a waste.
These are the stories the media loves so much, who cares about their personal lives? They only look for trash stories.

[Jas]

Who is this person? I've never heard of her.

Why are her husband's pants so small at the bottom? I keep seeing people wearing those pants.


They really shouldn't. :(

[Ian Osborne]

http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/amy17_small.jpg

Where's the bass player shoving his machine heads?

[brodski]

Er, Tired I mean. Not wasted. Nope. Tired. Exhausted, even.

I think you mean tired and emotional, cont. on p94.

[Ysidro]

A chipped ham sammich, perhaps? Or better yet, Primanti Bros. That'll fatten her up! ;)

We get some Primanti's inta her and then we'll go over ta Jack's fer some Ahrn's. None of dat "Light" stuff either. She needs da carbs. :)

[Pardalis]

It doesn't seem to be getting any better for her. :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Winehouse#2007

Damn, Amy Winehouse doing a James bond track, that would have been awesome.

[Disenchanted]

We get some Primanti's inta her and then we'll go over ta Jack's fer some Ahrn's. None of dat "Light" stuff either. She needs da carbs. :)

Maybe yinz could go to Eat 'n Park and back to Jack's fer arn n'at as a follow up.

[Matthew Best]

b3ta:

We love tabloid superstar Amy Winehouse. With her massive hair, blistering jazz pipes and nasty habits, all she's missing is a series of puerile photoshop gags made at her expense. So let's put that right.

Amy Winehouse Challenge (http://www.b3ta.com/challenge/amy_winehouse/)

[Pardalis]

I don't understand how people can make fun of other people's misfortunes.

[Invidious]

Ha ha. I like the comment at the bottom of the page from the OP link:

No wonder she's exhausted - I've seen more meat on a butcher's pencil (as we say in Yorkshire).

- Amanda, Doncaster, Yorkshire

[fuelair]

I would just like to casually suggest that when you go to that site, look on the right hand side and then click on the Natalie Portman article. I find it interesting, you might too.

[fuelair]

A chipped ham sammich, perhaps? Or better yet, Primanti Bros. That'll fatten her up! ;)
I'm a Buddhist, make me one with everything!!!!!:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Aoidoi]

I don't understand how people can make fun of other people's misfortunes."Tragedy is me stubbing my toe. Comedy is you falling down an open manhole cover and dying." - Mel Brooks (approximately)

"The only thing people like better than building up a hero is tearing one down." (Somebody else)

"I ain't got no dog in this fight." - Michael Vick (approximately)

[shalomsteph]

I bought her MP3 "Back to Black" for my iPod, but I haven't listened to it in full yet. It shuffles and I always say, "I like this, who sings it?" whenever one of her songs comes on.

As for her, she seem to be the British Britney Spears. Without the young uns.

[dudalb]

Anybode who has had to deal with an family member or close friend who has a severe drug or alchohol problem can tell you that getting them to realise they have a problem and it is not something they can handle on their own is the most difficult thing about the problem. Denial is a basic part of the makeup of a person with a severe substance abuse problem.
And when you in a situation where you are surrounding by sycophants who depend on you for a living and will cater to your every whim and NEVER will say anthing that might upset you the problem become worse.
Elvis and "The Memphis Mafia" set the trend here,and Lohan,Spears,and Sadly,Winehouse are following.
It's sad in the case of Winehouse because unlike Spears,she actually has a lot of talent.

[Number Six]

The older I get the less romantic out of control-edness seems and the more pathetic is seems. I realize that some people may naturally have a self-destructive bent where they're driven to push limits or whatever and that perhaps artsy people are more likely to fall in that category but I can't help but wonder if also part of it is that we as a society glamorize it so much. I mean, when someone goes through stuff like this we depict this glorious struggle going on as if it's noble or something.

And eventually they either get better and then talk about their addiction days ad nauseum or else they die and we glamorize them even more. Morrison, Joplin and Hendrix are all playing in a great band in heaven. Yeah, right. If they're in heaven they're probably too strung out to play anything. Why is it romantic to flush your existence down the toilet in pursuit of yet one more high? Maybe if it wasn't glamorized so much some people wouldn't be tempted to start down that road to begin with.

As far as Amy Winehouse herself goes, the only song I know by her is "Rehab" and I don't think it's any good, and all the tattoos in the pic are kinda disgusting.

[Matthew Best]

I went to Amy's local, the Hawley Arms in Camden, for a colleague's leaving drinks today and I can exclusively reveal that although her husband Blake Fielder-Civil was there holding court and drinking copiously, there was no sign of Amy. Which is good.

Number Six - you should try listening to "Love is a Losing Game". With that song Amy has written a future standard. Prince is already covering it and he's got a good ear.

[Gaia]

I wish she'd get some help, because like someone else said she seems to have some real talent. It's sad when any young person dies, and if she keeps going at the rate she is; she may be heading in that direction sooner rather than later.

[WildCat]

The downward spiral continues: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/amy-winehouse-taken-to-clinic-848484.html

[Badger]

What makes her music great is what causes her to spiral into the abyss, I think.

[Pardalis]

The downward spiral continues: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/amy-winehouse-taken-to-clinic-848484.html


In April, Winehouse attended a central London police station after being arrested on suspicion of head-butting one man and punching another

She head-butted someone? With all that hair? :eek:

[Oliver]

She does have big hair.

http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/amy17_small.jpg (http://home.mindspring.com/%7Eturniton/amy17_small.jpg)

You guys really think she's a train wreck in progress? :p


fixed. :)

[Matthew Best]

All that's as may be, but I was right about "Love Is A Losing Game" (http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-05-22-winehouse_N.htm).

[dudalb]

It's sad to see somebody handed the world on a silver platter then proceed to throw it away.
And there is nothing romantic about someone who is talented throwing their lives away because of booze or drugs. It is just pathetic and a total waste.

The older I get the less romantic out of control-edness seems and the more pathetic is seems.

I 100% agree. What is sad is that the idiots who think our of control behavior is somehow daring and romantic are just enabling the self destructive drives with people like Winehouse.
She already lost doing the theme for the Next 007 film (one of the most desired gigs for a singer there is) because of her self destructive ways (and I don't blame the producers for this,I would not someone as unreliable as Amy doing a song that has to meet a tight deadline) and if that was not a wake up call I don't know what is.

[Complexity]

I've heard her name, but don't think I've ever heard any of her music.

I know nothing about her life except that that she's a celebrity, rich, and out of control.

I can't think of a single reason to follow her drunken lurch through life.

[joobie]

and yet, here you are, reading and responding to a thread about her...

:)

[Complexity]

and yet, here you are, reading and responding to a thread about her...

:)


I'm here because of you, not her.

I also participate in threads about unicorns and intelligent xians, neither of which exist.

By the way, she looks awful.

You, on the other hand, rock.

[mrbaracuda]

Quickly, let's let this thread die!

BirYmhQr2t8

Be shocked and retreat from posting ever again! JREF doesn't need a Winehouse thread!

:notm,:notm,:notm

[thaiboxerken]

Amy is welcomed to go the way of Jimmy Hendrix, Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, and Keith Moon, among others, and pursue chemical bliss until she dies of it.

They'll always find another rock star to make number one records.

DR

This reminds me of Bill O'Reilly complaining about Amy saying something to the effect of "our culture is degrading, look at Amy Winehouse, she's a drug addict yet people still listen to her music." I guess when Bill was young, rock stars didn't do drugs.

[Mark6]

I actually like her voice and her music

Am I the only one who DOES NOT like her voice? I mean, I could not care less about her behaviour and looks (in fact, I think she looks hot), but I had not hear a single song by Winehouse I wanted to listen through the end.

[XBoxWarrior]

I've heard her name, but don't think I've ever heard any of her music.

I know nothing about her life except that that she's a celebrity, rich, and out of control.

I can't think of a single reason to follow her drunken lurch through life.

I bet you have wanked the monkey for her.......

Not so Complex eh?

[Complexity]

I bet you have wanked the monkey for her.......

Not so Complex eh?


Uh, gay guy here - can guarantee that you are wrong.

Also, I've got some taste - the only picture that I've noticed of her - in this thread - shows a pretty ugly woman. Maybe she dresses up better when she cares to, but you can only do so much with what she's got.

Yech.

[bigred]

I have no idea who the hell this is (other than some singer who apparently is popular) - I have a feeling that's a good thing.

[Sunstealer]

Or, slightly alternatively, the way of the self proclaimed "Vegetable Man", Pink Floyd's original lead singer, Syd Barrett

How I wish he was here...:(Tbh I think the former is more merciful than the latter :(

[Undesired Walrus]

I find her extremely sexy.

[mrbaracuda]

I find her extremely sexy.

Before or after her collapse? :rolleyes::p

[Ron_Tomkins]

I wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot needle.

What if she was riding a goat?

[Beerina]

Given her recent nip slip revealed approximately 3" diameter areolae, I would have thought Shemp may have been a little more interested.

[luchog]

I don't understand how people can make fun of other people's misfortunes.
Even if those "misfortunes" are entirely self-inflicted and easily avoidable?

"Misfortune" is really the wrong word, since the word is derived from "fortune", which means "chance". Her problems, like those of so many other self-destructing celebrities, are no more the result of chance than her popularity is. They're entirely and completely the result of her own choices and preferred lifestyle. Not much sympathy here.

[Matthew Best]

Today it emerged that Amy has emphysema. I don't know much about emphysema but it doesn't sound good.

I have to say that every time I've seen her play live, she's been a little bit worse than she was the time before. The last time I saw her (when she joined Prince onstage at an after-show party last year) her voice was pretty bad. I may be wrong, but I don't hold out much hope of it getting better...

[Ian Osborne]

Apparently, her lungs are down to 70% capacity. It's make or break time for her. If she doesn't clean up her act and get down to some serious recovery exercises, the damage will be permanent.

What a stupid way to end such a short career.

[Roadtoad]

Is it my imagination or does Amy Winehouse lack any discernable talent, aside from someone's marketing? I can't stand listening to her, but there's a perverse fascination in watching her downward slide into drug-addled oblivion.

Sorry, but watching my brother battle his addictions to heroin and cocaine held greater interest. He not only fought them, he ultimately won. He became a business owner, earned a college degree, and built a decent life for himself. He's still a jerk, but he's a living jerk, as opposed to Winehouse, who will ultimately wind up chemical-wracked corpse that would frighten most experienced pathologists, and whose body will need to be hermetically sealed in concrete to prevent haz-mat contamination of groundwater.

I'd like to wish Winehouse well, but before that can happen, she'll need to want well for herself. She doesn't. And that's a waste.

[Darth Rotor]

This reminds me of Bill O'Reilly complaining about Amy saying something to the effect of "our culture is degrading, look at Amy Winehouse, she's a drug addict yet people still listen to her music." I guess when Bill was young, rock stars didn't do drugs.

When I was a kid, they sure did. They even celebrated it.

Did you ever hear the Grand Funk Railroad's live album, Caught In the Act?

A cover from The Animals' original song, Inside Looking Out, was one of the best cuts on the album.

I'm sitting here lonely like a broken man.
I serve my time doin the best I can.
Walls and bars they surround me.
But, I dont want no sympathy.

No baby, no baby,
All I need is some tender lovin.
To keep me sane in this burning oven.
And, when my time is up, youll be my reefer.

Life gets worse on gods green earth.
Be my reefer, got to keep smokin that thing.

== snip a bit, brother==

Ice cold water is runnin through my veins.
They try and drag me back to work again.
Pain and blisters on my, mind and hands.
I work all day making up -- Nickel Bag, Nickel Bag!

The oats theyre feeding me are driving me wild.
I feel unhappy like a new born child.
Now, when my time is up, you wait and see.
These walls and bars wont keep that sh__ from me!

Snipped the rest

@ RT: well said.

DR

[Matthew Best]

Is it my imagination or does Amy Winehouse lack any discernable talent, aside from someone's marketing?

Yes, it's your imagination.

She's won three Ivor Novello Awards for songwriting, five Grammies, and a MOBO for Best British Female Singer.

She must have some discernable talent.

[Roadtoad]

Yes, it's your imagination.

She's won three Ivor Novello Awards for songwriting, five Grammies, and a MOBO for Best British Female Singer.

She must have some discernable talent.

I don't think too highly of the critics, and the awards. Far too often, I've seen no-talents like John Denver and Olivia Newton-John swaggering up to get their awards, which damned well should have gone to people with actual talent. Ever wonder how the hell it took Bob Seger over half his frigging career before anyone noticed that he was one of Rock and Roll's greatest talents? Or George Thorogood, for that matter? Hell, go back through the music catalogs of the '60s, and tell me why some of the greatest artists remain anonymous. I mean, for God's sake, Buddy Holly had to die before anyone figured out that he was one of the most original composers and performers ever to to record, (and for that matter, his record company and its successor still treat him like a red-headed stepchild.)

Sorry. But I listen to Amy Winehouse, and I cringe. What originality she has is being sapped from her, by her self abuse and by her self absorption. I don't expect her to be Enya, but let's face it: Pat Benatar still kicks some serious @$$, and she's been at it longer than Winehouse ever will.

In all honesty, I've been away from music for too long, but listening to Amy Winehouse is an exercise in self-flagellation. I could listen to The Great Kat as she cranks out an aural assault on violin and Stratocaster, shredding her way through Wagner and Mozart, and still have an appreciation for someone with the musical knowledge and talent - not to mention the incredible bod - that she displays. I'm not sure the Hapsburgs would groove on a chick in a bikini hammering away at the Ride of the Valkyries pumped through a stack of Marshalls, but I kind of get a kick out of it.

For that matter, there's Nightwish, if you groove on the Gothic end of matters. I'm not sure I'd enjoy a steady diet of Scandanavian metal, even if I didn't like Volvos, (though I'm sure if I had a Volvo, it would probably cringe; I like to crank the tunes up somewhere between Thermonuclear Detonation and Mt. St. Helens.)

For that matter, if it must be Amy, let it be Lee. At least she can enunciate. She's not one of my favorites, but Geez, Evanescence benefits from a willingness to learn from mistakes, and a sense of respect for its audience. Frankly, if I were so willing to tell anyone listening to me that I thought they sucked, regardless of how I did it, I think I'd stick to the studio and limit my outside interaction.

Sorry, but I don't enjoy Amy Winehouse. If the critics do, well, that's fine. I just remember that they also thought the movie Barton Fink was a winner, and that they once thought Emerson, Lake, and Palmer were worth listening to. (Frankly, they should have quit after Tarkus.)

[Matthew Best]

Wow.

You have truly boggled my mind. I think you may be the anti-me (not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily). Bob Seger? Enya? Evanescence? Nightwish? ELP? As for your third paragraph, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I suspect I wouldn't like it.

It's like you inhabit a completely different musical universe to me. I'm not surprised you don't like Amy Winehouse, to be honest. She seems to be coming from a completely different area of music than anything you seem to enjoy i.e. jazz and soul.

[Roadtoad]

Wow.

You have truly boggled my mind. I think you may be the anti-me (not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily). Bob Seger? Enya? Evanescence? Nightwish? ELP? As for your third paragraph, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I suspect I wouldn't like it.

It's like you inhabit a completely different musical universe to me. I'm not surprised you don't like Amy Winehouse, to be honest. She seems to be coming from a completely different area of music than anything you seem to enjoy i.e. jazz and soul.

Probably so, Matt.

Which is fine. Really. I mean, Baskin Robbins sells 31 flavors of ice cream at any given time. As to my opinion, I keep in mind what The Big Man says: "Opinions are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every @$$h013 has one."

[casebro]

My buddy and I used to love to see The Beat Farmers when they came to town. At one show, we were talking to front man "Country" Dick Montana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Dick_Montana), and my friend sdaid " I've seeen you everywhere in this town" and Country Dick said "You ain't seen me in rehab". And then he died on stage in BC.

And he sang the one about "I'm a happy man.... guts in a drawer and brains in a jar..."

Local boy, here in San Diego. I saw a double bill . Beat Farmers with Mojo Nixon & Skid Roper, singing "Mushroom Maniac", using a 5 gallon water bottle for a drum. In a biker bar, circa 1984 ?

There's no requirement to be successful to be a f****d up rocker.

[Roadtoad]

You saw Mojo Nixon? Damn. I'm so jealous!

[The Mad Hatter]

I'm amazed that nobody has posted this yet: http://youtube.com/watch?v=qaW-uj0Ta14

No, no, no...

[Suddenly]

Heck, I hadn't heard of her until I mis-clicked on this thread.

I've never been more proud to be totally disconnected with popular culture. The whole thread could be completely made up and I wouldn't know. The sudden female star who loses too much weight and takes the wheels off of her life and puts it in a ditch is becoming a greater archetypical cultural figure than the dying god-man....

(cues up Stevie Wonder on Itunes..)

[Ian Osborne]

I could listen to The Great Kat as she cranks out an aural assault on violin and Stratocaster, shredding her way through Wagner and Mozart, and still have an appreciation for someone with the musical knowledge and talent - not to mention the incredible bod - that she displays. I'm not sure the Hapsburgs would groove on a chick in a bikini hammering away at the Ride of the Valkyries pumped through a stack of Marshalls, but I kind of get a kick out of it.

Tell me you're exaggerating for comedic effect. Please. The idea that someone could listen to The Great Kat and enjoy the experience is just too much to take on board.

For that matter, if it must be Amy, let it be Lee. At least she can enunciate. She's not one of my favorites, but Geez, Evanescence benefits from a willingness to learn from mistakes, and a sense of respect for its audience.

Oh, please no. All that buttock-clenching emo angst drives me up the wall. I remember the video to Bring Me To Life, where she works herself up into a frenzy over nothing, then ends with the rest of the band trying to stop her falling off that building. By then I was thinking, 'Drop her! Save us from another desperately-unoriginal tune with her warbling over it like a chav mother in the bath'.

[Mark6]

Tell me you're exaggerating for comedic effect. Please. The idea that someone could listen to The Great Kat and enjoy the experience is just too much to take on board.

I could. In fact, the entire exchange between Roadtoad and Matthew Best was a bit surreal to me because Roadtoad's "musical universe" is my universe to a "t". And yes, jazz and soul (and Amy Winehouse) make me reach for earplugs.

[Wheezebucket]

I've never heard her music and she looks like some kind of sewer monster, but she parties, so what the hell. I'd hang out.

[calebprime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD5sahXoj0U

my credentials: 2 friends, 1 partial listen to Frank, this video.

my friends like the blend of kvetch, bitch, motown, soul.

I thought Frank was ok, but not as good as what I'm hearing in Rehab.

her pitch is a little fuzzy in Frank...

Rehab:

one of the pleasures is waiting for the hook through that long progression:

Em Am F Ab
Em Am F Ab G7...F7

The move from Ab to Em is nicely oblique

and then all the cool behind-the-beat stuff she's doing...the timing stuff is deeply delicious--you've got the precision vs. the slatternly slide thing


but those drunken performances are just pathetic.

and she's not some monster talent like Hendrix, fwiw.

[Matthew Best]

And yes, jazz and soul ... make me reach for earplugs.

I should have thought it obvious that anyone who doesn't like jazz or soul is not going to enjoy Amy Winehouse.

calebprime is right - she's not a major talent like Jimi Hendrix, but she's a fine singer, and a pretty good songwriter.

(I actually prefer the live version of "Rehab" that she did on the Letterman show, when she had the mighty Dap Kings as her backing band. The guitarist plays some nice Steve Cropper-like licks that aren't on the record, and ought to be.)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IlRF43-xaYc&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IlRF43-xaYc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[calebprime]

I should have thought it obvious that anyone who doesn't like jazz or s
(I actually prefer the live version of "Rehab" that she did on the Letterman show, when she had the mighty Dap Kings as her backing band. The guitarist plays some nice Steve Cropper-like licks that aren't on the record, and ought to be.)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IlRF43-xaYc&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IlRF43-xaYc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Yeah, this is excellent. She can nail it, and her pitch is fine, blah blah woof woof. She's better than I thought--'cause she sounds good live.

Sade, for example, or Madonna, sounded pretty wretched live.

Thanks, I thoroughly enjoyed that.

[Mark6]

Am I the only one who DOES NOT like her voice? I mean, I could not care less about her behaviour and looks (in fact, I think she looks hot).

Cross the last part out. Not any more. I looked at the pictures in OP, and yes, she does look like a sewer monster.

[EssenceOfMagic]

bloody awesome music she puts out. As for her personal life- keep it that way, PERSONAL.

[nails3jesus0]

the sandwhich comments are stupid. shes bulimic, and even if she wasnt its painful day to day to be that underweight/have so many emotional or drug problems that you dont eat. its also life threatening. so its a really dumb thing to say and its not even funny.

I like her music. i dont really like 'rehab', but i pretty much love everything else. ill admit i dig the crackhive and her ballet shoes and all that weirdness. <3 her.

[WildCat]

bloody awesome music she puts out. As for her personal life- keep it that way, PERSONAL.
What about when she snorts cocaine on stage?

YSH6LKHPLyk

[Undesired Walrus]

I don't think there is any compelling evidence to suggest that is cocaine.

[Matthew Best]

Cocaine? Where? She appears to be wiping her nose.

[Wheezebucket]

Looks like a little snifter of coke to me. Well played, Ms. Winehouse.

[Matthew Best]

Cocaine is apparently in the eye of the beholder, too.

[Wheezebucket]

And in the nose of Ms. Winehouse.

[zooterkin]

I've just been watching her Glastonbury appearance on TV, which, to me at least, seemed a rather shambolic affair. I find it sad to see someone falling apart in public, but judging by how it sells newspapers, others don't.

[Tumblehome]

As a big fan of Amy Winehouse, it gives me great pleasure to announce that, "Looking tan and radiant, Amy Winehouse on Friday sang at Nelson Mandela's 90th birthday concert in London in spite of health problems that have plagued her."

Story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,373262,00.html

Pictures: http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,4417,00.html#1_0

I hope it isn't just a temporary recovery.

[zooterkin]

As a big fan of Amy Winehouse, it gives me great pleasure to announce that, "Looking tan and radiant, Amy Winehouse on Friday sang at Nelson Mandela's 90th birthday concert in London in spite of health problems that have plagued her."

As I've stated before, I enjoy her music, but I was not impressed by what I saw last night. Maybe I was not in the right mood, as the crowd seemed to be enjoying it, and the BBC report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7479092.stm) says she "was on fine form and in good voice for most of the set". Maybe I caught the bit where she wasn't.

[Complexity]

Yeah, she's a real class act.

Apparently punched out a fan at her last concert:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article1355100.ece

[WildCat]

Yeah, she's a real class act.

Apparently punched out a fan at her last concert:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article1355100.ece

AMY WINEHOUSE made PETE DOHERTY look angelic last night after punching a fan, spitting chewing gum into the crowd and calling KANYE WEST a c*** on the Pyramid Stage at Glastonbury.
She was dead on about Kanye West.

[Roadtoad]

As I've stated before, I enjoy her music, but I was not impressed by what I saw last night. Maybe I was not in the right mood, as the crowd seemed to be enjoying it, and the BBC report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7479092.stm) says she "was on fine form and in good voice for most of the set". Maybe I caught the bit where she wasn't.

The night wasn't a total loss. Seems that Jay-Z had a great set. I almost wish I'd seen it.

[Tumblehome]

As I've stated before, I enjoy her music, but I was not impressed by what I saw last night. Maybe I was not in the right mood, as the crowd seemed to be enjoying it, and the BBC report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7479092.stm) says she "was on fine form and in good voice for most of the set". Maybe I caught the bit where she wasn't.


From what I've read, she was doing fine until she mentioned her husband and some of the crowd booed. She seems to be really hooked into her husband and is quite dependent on him. The worst of her behaviour has happened after he was jailed, and the worst of her Glastonbury performance came after the crowd booed him. She seems to have the psychological make-up to fall in completely, whether it's drugs and alcohol or men.

Can we say she was just defending her man? :)

[Tumblehome]

Yeah, she's a real class act.

Apparently punched out a fan at her last concert:


Yeah, after posting last night, I was disappointed to see that, although "punching out a fan" is overstating it. I doubt she could punch a hole in wet paper. But the intent was there.

[zooterkin]

From what I've read, she was doing fine until she mentioned her husband and some of the crowd booed. She seems to be really hooked into her husband and is quite dependent on him. The worst of her behaviour has happened after he was jailed, and the worst of her Glastonbury performance came after the crowd booed him.

Well, that could well account for it, since I think it was from around that time that I saw her.

[zooterkin]

The comments on the Grauniad blog (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/06/glastonbury_2008_amy_winehouse.html) seem to be mostly suggesting it was not her best performance.

[Pardalis]

She sings like an amateur singing to an IPod, on a bus, not knowing half of the lyrics.

[Gurdur]

Looks as if she is going to follow the example of Janis Joplin in every way possible.


Not entirely. She hasn't (AFAIK) given Leonard Cohen a blowjob yet, and she hasn't done anything else notable enough to make him write a song about her (like the Chelsea Hotel one).

Mind you, she's looking kinda bloody unhealthy, kind of a big turn-off on the BJ stakes, but Leonard Cohen is now 73, and doesn't really need to worry any more about HIV or hepatitis C, so if she actually develops something approaching a real personality, and also pursues Leonard Cohen quickly and ardently enough, she may make something of herself yet, despite all her disadvantages (her disadvantages consisting of her being her).

[nails3jesus0]

wow i didnt realize this thread was made simply to insult someone who is clearly quite ill so we can all feel better about ourselves.

grow the hell up, people.

[Undesired Walrus]

wow i didnt realize this thread was made simply to insult someone who is clearly quite ill so we can all feel better about ourselves.

grow the hell up, people.

Speak for yourself.

[Pardalis]

Is it too much to ask of her to at least know her own lyrics?

[Matthew Best]

Calm down, grandad.

[nails3jesus0]

does anyone find it odd that pete doherty isnt under nearly as much scrutiny despite doing the exact same types of things? in fact i think he a lot worse since he has a bunch of kittens he is unable to take care of, i think 2 have died iirc.

[Pardalis]

does anyone find it odd that pete doherty isnt under nearly as much scrutiny despite doing the exact same types of things?

Speeking for myself, I think Winehouse is alot more unique and talented than Doherty, who proposes pretty much the same old Brit pop. She reminds me more of Michael Jackson: extreme potential that's going down the drain.

[nails3jesus0]

Speeking for myself, I think Winehouse is alot more unique and talented than Doherty, who proposes pretty much the same old Brit pop. She reminds me more of Michael Jackson: extreme potential that's going down the drain.


I also think she is more talented, but theres an extreme difference in how they are viewed despite having the same type of drugged up behavior all the time.

pete won 'hero of the year' at the nme awards while amy was nominated for villian of the year. :boggled:

[Gurdur]

nails3jesus0,

it seems to me -- just looking at it all griefly -- that Winehouse suffers not only from maybe bulimia, but also from Bipolar Syndrome, and possible drug addiction. I am only putting that in there as possibilities. But a whole big point is her self-indulgence; that self-indulgence is wholly under her control, and that is what will destroy her, nothing else, if anything does.

[zooterkin]

does anyone find it odd that pete doherty isnt under nearly as much scrutiny despite doing the exact same types of things? in fact i think he a lot worse since he has a bunch of kittens he is unable to take care of, i think 2 have died iirc.

I think that may just indicate the short attention span of the press. It's my impression, though I don't follow these things closely, that a couple of years ago before la Winehouse's appearance, the press were following Doherty's every sniff and tipple. The fact that he didn't oblige their projected story arc by expiring in front of a long lens (yet) has caused them to look for other prey.

[Jonnyclueless]

With all of her drunken outbursts why is it she never manages to get wasted and walk in front of an oncoming bus? The whole drinking thing is getting tiresome, let's see a nice grand finale. If you wanna keep up the publicity stunts, give us something more meaningful (such as stumbling in front of an oncoming bus).

[Father Dagon]

This reminds me of Bill O'Reilly complaining about Amy saying something to the effect of "our culture is degrading, look at Amy Winehouse, she's a drug addict yet people still listen to her music." I guess when Bill was young, rock stars didn't do drugs.They didn't have drugs when he was young. They had medicine.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_17592486e06a45dd31.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=12863)

And probably unbeknownst, O'Reilly puts his finger on a interesting difference between american and european culture that I've read about in Newsweek (some issue spring of 2001.)

The european culture is conservative, e.g. it has such a strong center that anyone must relate to, whether they want it or not. Not that the center can't change. But once it has changed, there's not really much to squabble about. The center can also give you safety, so if you are "slumming" you can always return to the center.

The american culture is demorcatic, e.g. it has no center and there's a constant and totally futile struggle for hegemony. That's why the culture wars of the 60's are still fought. And that's also why O'Reilly more or less must attack Winehouse, lest his status become questioned.

I don't know anything about O'Reillys family history. But I guess that he descends from poor irish immigrants. Now compare with my family history (brag-brag, I know), mayors and other impressive persons. The dark side of having a impressive family history is the risk of bitterness if your career never seems to take off. But the bright side is that you isn't easily fazed. "Winehouse does coke and spend thousands of £ on her hairdo? Big deal, my great-great-grandfather was a mayor."

[negativ]

With all of her drunken outbursts why is it she never manages to get wasted and walk in front of an oncoming bus? The whole drinking thing is getting tiresome, let's see a nice grand finale. If you wanna keep up the publicity stunts, give us something more meaningful (such as stumbling in front of an oncoming bus).

You don't understand. She is, like Keith Richards, Ozzy Osbourne, and others, an undead rock star. Actual humans frequently do die from their misadventures: Hendrix, Morrison, et. al. It is very hard, however, to kill the undead. They do tend to be prone to irony, however, so it's entirely possible that Amy could shake off a 5-day heroin binge that would kill a specially-designed industrial heroin neutralizing machine, then go on to choke to death on a pretzel.

I don't understand the fascination with Winehouse at ALL. I find what little of her music I've heard fairly boring and unremarkable. Her voice isn't even all that spiffy. I wonder if it's because the mainstream musical landscape of today is so dreary that anything unlike standard Britney / Beyonce / etc. faire comes across as groundbreaking? I dunno, it's probably just me.

[Father Dagon]

I don't understand the fascination with Winehouse at ALL. I find what little of her music I've heard fairly boring and unremarkable. Her voice isn't even all that spiffy. I wonder if it's because the mainstream musical landscape of today is so dreary that anything unlike standard Britney / Beyonce / etc. faire comes across as groundbreaking? I dunno, it's probably just me.Righty-O! People are probably sick and tired of over-polished and over-humanly perfect artists. Remember that GG Allin thought that rock'n'roll had become tame and wanted to make it controversial again. A stark reminder that "rock'n'roll" is slang for sex.

[Ocelot]

She does have big hair.

http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/amy17_small.jpg


My missus was so disapointed to find out that ti was a wig.

I don't understand how people can make fun of other people's misfortunes.

Ha ha you don't understand. I laugh at your unfortunate lack of understanding.

As a big fan of Amy Winehouse, it gives me great pleasure to announce that, "Looking tan and radiant, Amy Winehouse on Friday sang at Nelson Mandela's 90th birthday concert in London in spite of health problems that have plagued her."


Didn't go down too well that during a rendition of the anthemic "Free Nelson Mandella" she reportedly ad libbed "Free Blake My Feller!"

Blake Fielder-Civil two a penny thug in prison after being convicted of criminal violence, Nelson Mandella anti aparteid rights icon, elder statesman and former political prisoner. Hardly a respectful comparison to make given the occasion.

[Pardalis]

Ha ha you don't understand. I laugh at your unfortunate lack of understanding.

Could you translate that into English please?

Thanks.

[Ocelot]

Could you translate that into English please?

Thanks.

Apparently not (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.randi.org%2Fshowpo st.php%3Fp%3D3831879%26postcount%3D120&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en)

For other failed google searches try this (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-10%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=%22Pardalis+sense+of+humour%22)

:)

[Ian Osborne]

They do tend to be prone to irony, however, so it's entirely possible that Amy could shake off a 5-day heroin binge that would kill a specially-designed industrial heroin neutralizing machine, then go on to choke to death on a pretzel.

Like Stevie Ray Vaughan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_Ray_Vaughan). :(

[nails3jesus0]

I think that may just indicate the short attention span of the press. It's my impression, though I don't follow these things closely, that a couple of years ago before la Winehouse's appearance, the press were following Doherty's every sniff and tipple. The fact that he didn't oblige their projected story arc by expiring in front of a long lens (yet) has caused them to look for other prey.


they left him alone until he dated kate moss, and then when they were broken up they pretty much started to leave him alone again.

[nails3jesus0]

nails3jesus0,

it seems to me -- just looking at it all griefly -- that Winehouse suffers not only from maybe bulimia, but also from Bipolar Syndrome, and possible drug addiction. I am only putting that in there as possibilities. But a whole big point is her self-indulgence; that self-indulgence is wholly under her control, and that is what will destroy her, nothing else, if anything does.


well her dad told everyone she was bulimic, so thats what i based it off of. even if she wasnt the 'she needs a sandwhich' comment is still really freaking stupid.


you think she has bipolar disorder but that shes totally under control? i dont understand. anyway I think she needs some help and she is clearly mentally ill in some respect. Its really not very funny for anyone to be that ill.

[Pardalis]

Apparently not (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.randi.org%2Fshowpo st.php%3Fp%3D3831879%26postcount%3D120&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en)

For other failed google searches try this (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-10%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=%22Pardalis+sense+of+humour%22)

:)

Alright, it just came out of the blue is all, I didn't know what you meant. :)

[Badger]

I gotta agree with you, N3J0. She's some messed up, and it's really crass of people to wish she'd die already, and stuff.

I mean, a joke's a joke, sure. I get that. Thing is, I can't see her making it through the year, so the taste-line has been crossed.

Perhaps we're surrounded by people who yell "Jump" at someone on a ledge too.

[SirPhilip]

Amy Winehouse is the most gorgeous woman in the world, you understand.

[Jonnyclueless]

Amy Winehouse is the most gorgeous woman in the world, you understand.

Hey, pass the beer goggles, I wanna take a look.

[nails3jesus0]

Hey, pass the beer goggles, I wanna take a look.


yep this is whats important to discuss, how attractive she is. :rolleyes:

I cant count the number of times that a thread is about a woman that has nothing to do with her looks and theres almost immediatley a post about her looks. WHY?

Why the hell are we discussing how hot/not hot someone is when they are in serious medical danger? You might as well be walking around a hospital talking about which patients you would be willing to sleep with and which ones are ugly as far as i am concerned, its completely disgusting. women dont exsist to look good for you, or for you to insult when they dont meet your expectations. this applies to many many people here so im not trying to single you out, your post just got me thinking.

[Zygar]

nails3jesus0,

it seems to me -- just looking at it all griefly -- that Winehouse suffers not only from maybe bulimia, but also from Bipolar Syndrome, and possible drug addiction. I am only putting that in there as possibilities. But a whole big point is her self-indulgence; that self-indulgence is wholly under her control, and that is what will destroy her, nothing else, if anything does.

Why is it that everyone with the least bit of issues seems to be immediately labelled bipolar?

[Gurdur]

Why is it that everyone with the least bit of issues seems to be immediately labelled bipolar?

Evidence?

This is news to me.

[Gurdur]

well her dad told everyone she was bulimic, so thats what i based it off of. even if she wasnt the 'she needs a sandwhich' comment is still really freaking stupid.

Wasn't me who said she needs a sandwich, so I will let the two of you fight that one out.

you think she has bipolar disorder but that shes totally under control?

Not what I said. Here is what I said again (with typo and all):

"it seems to me -- just looking at it all griefly -- that Winehouse suffers not only from maybe bulimia, but also from Bipolar Syndrome, and possible drug addiction. I am only putting that in there as possibilities. But a whole big point is her self-indulgence; that self-indulgence is wholly under her control, and that is what will destroy her, nothing else, if anything does."

IOW, the self-indulgence is under her control. And it's the decisive factor.

i dont understand. anyway I think she needs some help and she is clearly mentally ill in some respect. Its really not very funny for anyone to be that ill.

It isn't funny at all to be that ill. But what do you do with someone determined to be self-indulgent, even if it kills them? Do you tolerate their behaviour, even though it's clearly self-destructive?

[Tumblehome]

Didn't go down too well that during a rendition of the anthemic "Free Nelson Mandella" she reportedly ad libbed "Free Blake My Feller!"

Blake Fielder-Civil two a penny thug in prison after being convicted of criminal violence, Nelson Mandella anti aparteid rights icon, elder statesman and former political prisoner. Hardly a respectful comparison to make given the occasion.


I cringed when I saw that, too, especially since Mandela phoned her personally to ask her to sing at his bash (or so the story goes). Her self-absorption runs deep.

But she still has a great voice. When she's able to sing.

[Zygar]

Evidence?

This is news to me.

Why would I have evidence of this? It's very obviously a statement of my anecdotal experience. It's utterly and ridiculously common for people to play armchair psychiatrist, and bipolar disorder is just so freely tossed around that it bothers me.

Maybe you should think back and ask yourself how many people you "think" are bipolar without having knowledge of a diagnosis?

[calebprime]

I cringed when I saw that, too, especially since Mandela phoned her personally to ask her to sing at his bash (or so the story goes). Her self-absorption runs deep.

But she still has a great voice. When she's able to sing.

quoted for agreement

here "great voice" means--to me--that she can do good, musical, funky stuff with timing, and with blues-y embellishments and bent notes--when she's sober enough.

(I've played in a number of bands where I could say this about the singer, but Ms. Winehouse is extremely...extreme.)

Of course, she's in her twenties and living in the limelight, and she's almost certainly a cokehead, so "self-absorbed" barely does her justice...

Why would I have evidence of this? It's very obviously a statement of my anecdotal experience. It's utterly and ridiculously common for people to play armchair psychiatrist, and bipolar disorder is just so freely tossed around that it bothers me.

Maybe you should think back and ask yourself how many people you "think" are bipolar without having knowledge of a diagnosis?

my experience as well. quoted for agreement.

[Tumblehome]

here "great voice" means--to me--that she can do good, musical, funky stuff with timing, and with blues-y embellishments and bent notes--when she's sober enough.

Quoted back at ya for agreement. A great voice doesn't have to be classically trained. AW's unique vocal mannerisms seem to indicate a pure instinct for the genre.

Your quote above reminded me of an earlier post that so well described my feelings about her singing that I didn't bother posting my own lame attempt. I went looking for it again and guess who posted it?

...and then all the cool behind-the-beat stuff she's doing...the timing stuff is deeply delicious--you've got the precision vs. the slatternly slide thing...

Right on the mark, sir. :cool:

[Roadtoad]

I would agree that Amy Winehouse has incredible talent, but what's so tragic is that she's so quick and willing to waste it on her self-indulgent lifestyle. Yes, she might live a long life, but what would that be worth given the damage to her body and mind?

I realize that she looks at this as part of a "jazz lifestyle," or some other such crap, but the reality is that it's simply self-destruction. The results are showing, as she erodes what talent she has.

[Drudgewire]

Whenever this thread gets bumped back to the top my first thought is "uh-oh, she must have overdosed."

[Tumblehome]

I would agree that Amy Winehouse has incredible talent, but what's so tragic is that she's so quick and willing to waste it on her self-indulgent lifestyle. Yes, she might live a long life, but what would that be worth given the damage to her body and mind?

I realize that she looks at this as part of a "jazz lifestyle," or some other such crap, but the reality is that it's simply self-destruction. The results are showing, as she erodes what talent she has.

I can't disagree that she's a tragedy unfolding, but I don't understand the rush to put her down personally for it as if we're all angels. From all indications, she grew up with a poor self-image. Does she deserve to be blamed for not having self-control if her sense of self isn't that strong to begin with?

[Gurdur]

Why would I have evidence of this? It's very obviously a statement of my anecdotal experience. It's utterly and ridiculously common for people to play armchair psychiatrist, and bipolar disorder is just so freely tossed around that it bothers me.


Okaaaaaaaaay, you made some weird assertion, based on anecdotal evidence, and you won't even back it up one little bit, not even with aforesaid alleged anecdotal evidence.

Just as long as you don't ask me to take it seriously, fine!

Maybe you should think back and ask yourself how many people you "think" are bipolar without having knowledge of a diagnosis?


Maybe you should try harder. You didn't even ask why the diagnosis, I see. No skin off my nose, but it seems to me you simply object for whatever emotional reasons without actually making any kind of objection on principle.

[Gurdur]

... From all indications, she grew up with a poor self-image. Does she deserve to be blamed for not having self-control if her sense of self isn't that strong to begin with?


She's an adult, she has normal intelligence or more, she is financially well-off. IOW, she could do more about herself if she wanted to.

I really don't think we need to make excuses for her.

[Roadtoad]

She's an adult, she has normal intelligence or more, she is financially well-off. IOW, she could do more about herself if she wanted to.

I really don't think we need to make excuses for her.

Agreed. But some things require time and willingness to change, and awareness that they can be. That's not always easy to accomplish.

I finally, after over 40 years of abuse, cut off my family. I was 40! Geez, and Amy Winehouse is how old?

[Gurdur]

Agreed. But some things require time and willingness to change, and awareness that they can be. That's not always easy to accomplish.


Agreed (and how!). But is Amy Winehouse even trying in the slightest? That is my point.

Her successful career to date may well be the death of her since she may well use success to mean she doesn't need to try, to mean she doesn't need to change herself.

[Jonnyclueless]

She and her label are milking the whole drinking drugs thing for all it's worth. It's what got her known to begin with. Sure she can sing great, but that's nothing exceptional. Famous artists are not representative of talent, simply marketing. And most of the more talented side of musicians are not the ones that are in the spotlight. She got there because of her antics. It's free marketing.

But if it backfires, I won't feel too bad. Darwinism may come into play.

[Zygar]

Okaaaaaaaaay, you made some weird assertion, based on anecdotal evidence, and you won't even back it up one little bit, not even with aforesaid alleged anecdotal evidence.

Just as long as you don't ask me to take it seriously, fine!

:rolleyes: This particular instance is an anecdote of when it happened.

Maybe you should try harder. You didn't even ask why the diagnosis, I see. No skin off my nose, but it seems to me you simply object for whatever emotional reasons without actually making any kind of objection on principle.

It's not anything to do with emotion. Are you a psychologist? Do you have any idea how offensive it is when people throw diagnoses around when they don't even know you personally? Even worse when they are unqualified to make that judgement. Obviously you think you're superior enough that you can just go around throwing diagnoses around, so I wonder how many other people you've "diagnosed" in your life.

[nails3jesus0]

just because shes talented doesnt mean she has some duty to society to get better. shes a person with a life and shes the only one who has to live it.

[Gurdur]

just because shes talented doesnt mean she has some duty to society to get better. shes a person with a life and shes the only one who has to live it.

OK, Zygar, I will answer you after answering nails3jesus0. This is developing into a very interesting discussion (as far as I am concerned), and I would like to see it go on.

nails3jesus0,
the converse to your statement is that no-one has any responsibility towards her then. May I remind you you were upset when it seemed to you (incorrectly, IMvHO) that others were laughing at Amy because she was ill?

I can't see how you can absolve Amy of all personal responsibility, but basically say others should have a social responsibility towards her (e.g. by not laughing at her merely because she's ill).

This is just a small start on our discussion, but it's a start.

[Gurdur]

OK, Zygar, I want to apologise to you for my earlier combatative tone towards you personally. I will say that I will be stating things here with which you will strongly disagree, but let's see if we can get this discussion really productive and going.

Are you a psychologist?


Used to be one, on the physiopsychological side. Once one, always one?

Do you have any idea how offensive it is when people throw diagnoses around when they don't even know you personally?

It may be offensive -- but that doesn't make it wrong.

That being said, may I ask why such a diagnosis of a possibility (I did say it was only a possibility, diagnosiswise, though I think it's a mildly strong probability) involving Amy Winehouse should be offensive to you?

Even worse when they are unqualified to make that judgement. Obviously you think you're superior enough that you can just go around throwing diagnoses around, so I wonder how many other people you've "diagnosed" in your life.

Let's get one thing straight, shall we? I don't think I'm "superior", I just think the evidence bears out my mooting of the probability.

Do you think anyone who gives a diagnosis feels "superior"?

I'm happy to argue about whether it's wrong or right, but hey, doing it at all? That makes for a very short debate, where the answer devolves to "tough cheese" at the end, so how about we don't go down that road?

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Oh, please no. All that buttock-clenching emo angst drives me up the wall. I remember the video to Bring Me To Life, where she works herself up into a frenzy over nothing, then ends with the rest of the band trying to stop her falling off that building. By then I was thinking, 'Drop her! Save us from another desperately-unoriginal tune with her warbling over it like a chav mother in the bath'.

Evanescence are nowhere near being the best Goth Metal has to offer (Nightwish, After Forever, Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil etc are all better) but he wasn't claiming they were the best - just that he preferred that sort of stuff (same here!).

I recognise Winehouse's talent (though I think it's exaggerated - that could be because I'm not into that sort of stuff so can't fully appreciate it) but the drink / drugs stuff is (sadly) actually pushing her career, ensuring she is constantly in the limelight and there is an unfortunate tendency to glamorise such addictions when it's a celebrity.

Anyway, Amy Winehouse? Pfah! Floor Janssen's a better singer (and would easily drink her under the table), Christina Scabbia is better looking and Sharon Den Ardel is better on both counts. If there was any justice in the world of popular music they'd be making the headlines...:p

[Zygar]

Used to be one, on the physiopsychological side. Once one, always one?

Alright. I'll give you a little credit for that.

It may be offensive -- but that doesn't make it wrong.

That being said, may I ask why such a diagnosis of a possibility (I did say it was only a possibility, diagnosiswise, though I think it's a mildly strong probability) involving Amy Winehouse should be offensive to you?

Simply because I've seen a lot of airchair diagnoses in both public and private discussions on this forum. Some of these have turned out to be unverified in real life, and have been used as a basis to treat people differently than they probably should have been treated. I'm not going to detail this further than that, so don't bother asking.

Let's get one thing straight, shall we? I don't think I'm "superior", I just think the evidence bears out my mooting of the probability.

Do you think anyone who gives a diagnosis feels "superior"?

Frankly, yes. Perhaps that is a personal issue of mine.

I'm happy to argue about whether it's wrong or right, but hey, doing it at all? That makes for a very short debate, where the answer devolves to "tough cheese" at the end, so how about we don't go down that road?

Just because you can do it doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Gurdur]

... Simply because I've seen a lot of airchair diagnoses in both public and private discussions on this forum.

Fair enough. I haven't, quite truthfully; I haven't seen Bipolar Syndrome even discussed here on the JREF board. I am willing to accept it may have been, I am willing to accept that it may have been thrown around as a diagnosis, just I haven't seen it myself. And where I live, it just doesn't come up for discussion in the media; I haven't seen it in the media at all (I do not live in an English-speaking country, and while I do follow my main news sources of the BBC and The Guardian quite rigorously, neither the BBC nor the Guardian go in for that much either).

I do know personally a few who have been clinically and professionally diagnosed as having Bipolar Syndrome. To me, such a diagnosis is no more or no less offensive than a diagnosis of ALS (I had to deal with a possible diagnosis of ALS for myself a couple of months ago, luckily it turned out to be a false alarm), or a diagnosis of say Yersina pestis or norovirus or what-have-you.

I will grant to you that a very few people on this board do indeed throw around pseudo-diagnoses very obviously and incompetently merely as manipulative personal abuse; it's ironic, I've seen one person who I very strongly suspect to be badly bipolar along with co-morbid conditions accusing others of being mad; but that kind of behaviour is usually very transparent, and no different to other forms of dishonest personal abuse.

As for Amy Winehouse, it's quite possible I would have never heard of her except her name keeps popping up on three different boards I frequent (like I said, I don't live in an English-speaking country), and I eventually followed it up by looking at reports in the English-speaking media and elsewhere.

Some of these have turned out to be unverified in real life, and have been used as a basis to treat people differently than they probably should have been treated.


This is always a danger. The converse is also true -- a fair few bipolars get diagnosed as depressive, and get given SSRI's only, which only makes their condition worse. The medicine of treating the Personality Conditions is still in its infancy, and it is extremely difficult to reach very accurate diagnoses someimes.

Frankly, yes. Perhaps that is a personal issue of mine.


OK, let's try discussing the whole debate carefully then. Then maybe both you and I can get something out of this.


Just because you can do it doesn't mean I have to like it.


What astonishes me here is that it's my tentative suspicion of Bipolar Syndrome with Amy Winehouse that gets the attention; I would have thought my describing her as a self-indulgent twat would have been far more offensive to many. A bipolar condition is not a matter of choice, it's like being born colour-blind or so on; but being a self-indulgent twat is indeed a matter of choice.

[SirPhilip]

Doublepost.

[SirPhilip]

(Brother Philip's arms are raised. He intends to stop this thread in it's tracks.)

Gentlemen, some things are so ugly they are not. As the Pug (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Wilbur_the_pug.jpg/800px-Wilbur_the_pug.jpg) dog, or Linophryne Arborifera (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/abyss/life/e265.html) (don't leave your intelligent design home without him), or the modified El Camino (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDkKH1GfQmI) Levi's used in that advertisement (despite being driven by a Jinn). While only a tenured Jazz enthusiast could physically make love to Winehouse, or David Bowie in a display of infallibility, Amy teaches us to headbutt life daily even when our physical condition and exhaustion hinder our coordination.

(Like Shakira incidentally the metal clad Safari looks and performs a lot faster than Firefox, at least on 64bit XP. Neither however, micro manages your web experience faster than Lisa though, who can now add efficiency to her list of blame. At least my web experience anyway.)

[Zygar]

OK, let's try discussing the whole debate carefully then. Then maybe both you and I can get something out of this.

There's still quite a social stigma attached to psychological problems. Given my experience with inexperienced or invalid diagnoses, I tend to look upon a non-medical diagnosis of a psychological problem as a form of insult, and a way of excusing a person's behavior as outside their control.

What astonishes me here is that it's my tentative suspicion of Bipolar Syndrome with Amy Winehouse that gets the attention; I would have thought my describing her as a self-indulgent twat would have been far more offensive to many. A bipolar condition is not a matter of choice, it's like being born colour-blind or so on; but being a self-indulgent twat is indeed a matter of choice.

Most people are self indulgent. Anyway, the bipolar comment went quite some time without recognition, so I wouldn't read to much into it.

[Gurdur]

There's still quite a social stigma attached to psychological problems.


Agreed. And to many other medical and genetic conditions too, such as leprosy, the various retardations, malformations and so on.

Given my experience with inexperienced or invalid diagnoses, I tend to look upon a non-medical diagnosis of a psychological problem as a form of insult, and a way of excusing a person's behavior as outside their control.


Understood. I hope you see that that was not what I was doing.


Most people are self indulgent.


Not to Amy Winehouse's extent -- and most are also usually able to handle it better too.

Anyway, the bipolar comment went quite some time without recognition, so I wouldn't read to much into it.

True.

[Pardalis]

For those who still care to keep track of her, she apparently is now on a suicide watch

http://www.mtv.co.uk/channel/mtvuk/news/451330-amy-winehouse-on-suicide-watch

and is thinking of joining the Church of Scientology

http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment/moreaccess/entertainment/story.html?id=a95133f3-9b6d-4687-8b9f-97ce51d30a6c

I literally don't know which news is worse. :(

[dudalb]

At the moment, I have to wonder if the CO$ would WANT Amy as a member. They have enough of a PR problem as it is.
It's sad.She is talented, but she is pissing it all away. She seems to want to be like Janis Joplin in every respect.