If you thought 'The Secret' was bad.....you ain't seen nothing yet!

[Victor Meldrew]

Joe Vitale, one of the people interviewed in 'The Secret' (the one who stated clearly that the Law Of Attraction works EVERY TIME) has a new project - Zero Limits!

Bringing together the LOA and Hawaaiin Huna, + using hypnotic language and a big dose of BS, he presents his new programme (buy the book from Amazon now!!)

www.zerolimits.info (http://www.zerolimits.info)

The website reads:

This website was infused with energy to help clean you of negative programs and beliefs as you view it. As you sit there looking at this site, you might notice a quieting and relaxing taking place. Just relax, breath slowly and let go. Enjoy the peace.

It continues:

This is the official website for the amazing new book by Dr. Joe Vitale and Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len, titled "Zero Limits." The book is the most powerful one ever written. It explains the true story of the unusual therapist who helped heal an entire ward of mentally ill criminals -- without seeing any of them. The book reveals his method. It reveals the true cause for everything that happens to you, and how to "clean" the negativity so you can re-connect with the Divine.

and

Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As he improved himself, the patient improved.

still more......

This means that terrorist activity, the president, the economy--anything you experience and don't like--is up for you to heal. They don't exist, in a manner of speaking, except as projections from inside you. The problem isn't with them, it's with you, and to change them, you have to change you.

I rest my case.

[ond_magiker]

Oh come on! That book isn't going to sell at all. People aren't that stupid.

Wait...

[Ladewig]

Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As he improved himself, the patient improved.


Isn't a claim this false enough to charge the promoters with fraud?

_ _ _ _ _ _
ETA: while researching the doctor who made this claim ( Ihaleakala Hew Len, Ph.D. ) I came across his previous work here (http://hooponopono.org/Articles/a_house_divided.html)


In the game of tennis, the scoring system is Love, 15, 30, 40, game. The game begins with Love. In the etymology of the word, Love is no score, no stakes, nothing, to take the individual back to Love to nothing, to wholeness.

Argument by appeal to rules for scoring tennis games.

It gets worse after that.

[Victor Meldrew]

Just been doing a bit more research and found Joe Vitale's blog on Zero Limits :
http://blog.mrfire.com/secret/the-best-cleaning-method/

From there:


AG says
Then if this method can help a ward of criminals then why not do it again and have it clinically documented so it will be unequivocally clear that this method can really help those who are challenged or mentally ill whether in jail or elsewhere.
mark ryan says
AG,
One of the things i have noticed over the years of doing therapy and coaching is that there are certain people…who no matter what you prove to them are never satisfied and want more proof.
They want tests and documentation etc etc.
What i found out was that it is nothing more than a ruse to keep themselves from taking action and finding out for themselves.
AG..in the years it would take to do all those studies…you could find out for yourself if it is useful and works…that is if you gave it an honest try.
Doing tests and other documentation insures you years of inaction and the ability to say this is why i don’t believe…and until someone can prove it in the way i need proof…it doens’t work

[777]

If everything is a projection, why don't then just smoke marijuana and make everything happy?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You know, I think the woo woo who lives in my building could actually give him a run for his money.

[dudalb]

"SEE,SEE,MORIARTY,WHAT YOU DID WITH THE NEGATIVE WAVES!"
"Oddball" (Donald Sutherland" in "Kelly's Heros".
The term Negative Waves always brings that movie to mind.
I find it incredible that people can fall for this bunk.

[GT/CS]

How do you suppose Mr. Vitale explains things like the people who are under the I-35 bridge in Minnesota, or the miners in Utah? Were they just negative thinkers. Well shame on them!

When the next hurricane takes aim at the gulf coast will it miss the positive thinkers and pound the negative thinkers?

[777]

I somehow get a feeling that this whole thing has a high potential to be and is developing into a cult. The followers eventually becomes incapable of whole and independent thought, becomes dependent on the "teachers", buy products that are useless, and probably aggression to "cleanse the world of evil."

[777]

How do you suppose Mr. Vitale explains things like the people who are under the I-35 bridge in Minnesota, or the miners in Utah? Were they just negative thinkers. Well shame on them!

When the next hurricane takes aim at the gulf coast will it miss the positive thinkers and pound the negative thinkers?

And the little babies without much of a developed thought capability attracted bad parents who turned them into cocaine addicts! Bad negative babies!

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Just been doing a bit more research and found Joe Vitale's blog on Zero Limits :
http://blog.mrfire.com/secret/the-best-cleaning-method/

From there:


AG says
Then if this method can help a ward of criminals then why not do it again and have it clinically documented so it will be unequivocally clear that this method can really help those who are challenged or mentally ill whether in jail or elsewhere.
mark ryan says
AG,
One of the things i have noticed over the years of doing therapy and coaching is that there are certain people…who no matter what you prove to them are never satisfied and want more proof.
They want tests and documentation etc etc.
What i found out was that it is nothing more than a ruse to keep themselves from taking action and finding out for themselves.
AG..in the years it would take to do all those studies…you could find out for yourself if it is useful and works…that is if you gave it an honest try.
Doing tests and other documentation insures you years of inaction and the ability to say this is why i don’t believe…and until someone can prove it in the way i need proof…it doens’t work

You don't need further testing!

You would think that the operators of the asylum, having seen this done once, would not need very much more proof and set in motion whatever was required to replicate the curing in other wards and other asylums -- unless of course it never happened. :confused:

[SezMe]

For a while there was quite a bit of radio advertising on local stations pushing this crap. Clearly, there is money to be made in this woo.

[blobru]

...
Two years ago, I heard about a therapist in Hawaii who cured a complete ward of criminally insane patients--without ever seeing any of them. The psychologist would study an inmate's chart and then look within himself to see how he created that person's illness. As he improved himself, the patient improved.
...

I asked Dr. Len how he went about healing himself. What was he doing, exactly, when he looked at those patients' files?

"I just kept saying, 'I'm sorry' and 'I love you' over and over again," he explained.

That's it?

That's it.

Turns out that loving yourself is the greatest way to improve yourself, and as you improve yourself, your improve your world.


So why buy the book now? They just told us all you have to do is say "I'm sorry" and "I love you" over and over and over again until Bush and Bin Laden cure cancer and go out dancing (or whatever a perfect world is)... I don't get it. I mean, besides believing in this nonsense in the first place, to then spend $25 on a book whose contents can be summed up in five words!? Paah. No wonder new age gurus are always smilin' like a butcher's dog -- I think they could literally fart in a jar and sell it as perfume to these yutzes. :monkey2:

[Niobe]

And the little babies without much of a developed thought capability attracted bad parents who turned them into cocaine addicts! Bad negative babies! Following from that we should charge mothers of disabled children with abuse and depraved indifference because she willed that spine to not close up or that extra chromosome into being.

[Ysidro]

Ah yes, who needs testing? Why that's just an excuse! Get out there and do my bidding!

Oh and I love myself quite often but it doesn't seem to help much. ;)

[Whiplash]

Oh come on! That book isn't going to sell at all. People aren't that stupid.

Wait...

"There is no limit to human credulity, Miss Smith"

[godless dave]

Joe Vitale, one of the people interviewed in 'The Secret' (the one who stated clearly that the Law Of Attraction works EVERY TIME) has a new project - Zero Limits!

Bringing together the LOA and Hawaaiin Huna, + using hypnotic language and a big dose of BS, he presents his new programme (buy the book from Amazon now!!)

www.zerolimits.info (http://www.zerolimits.info)

The website reads:

This website was infused with energy to help clean you of negative programs and beliefs as you view it. As you sit there looking at this site, you might notice a quieting and relaxing taking place. Just relax, breath slowly and let go. Enjoy the peace.

Do you use a server side include to do that?

[Dr_DRich]

This is funny. An excerpt from their disclaimer:

THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE RESULTS AND PERFORMANCE OF THE WEB SITES, PRODUCTS AND SERVICES ARE ASSUMED BY YOU. IF THE WEB SITES, PRODUCTS, SERVICES OR WRITTEN MATERIALS ARE DEFECTIVE, YOU, AND NOT OUR COMPANY, ASSUME THE ENTIRE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.

[Quakeulf]

http://www.supermusic.sk/obrazky/34211_ssss.jpg

These guys.

[777]

We seem to be just criticizing them. We should think what we can do. Or do we just prefer lying back and watch gullible people fall for it? And here is my comment:
"There are two things in the world that is infinite. The universe, and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein

[Ladewig]

Or do we just prefer lying back and watch gullible people fall for it? And here is my comment:
"There are two things in the world that is infinite. The universe, and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein

You're right. I won't watch gullible people fall for something that isn't true: your quote is spurious - provide a reliable citation or withdraw it.

. . . . . . . .
As for "Zero Limits," what do you propose we do? Folks have been selling woo-based self-help books for decades. They will continue to do so for decades to come. Exposing the writers as frauds does not seem to slow sales. Posting messages on believers' boards results in bannings, anger, condescension, or mockery.

Given the way this book is pitched, I expect some of the buyers to be people who have mentally ill relatives. That situation can be painful and frustrating. Many believe that if they could just show the mentally ill person that he is loved and accepted, then the more severe symptoms might go away. This book will be preying on those people.

My wish is that people would not publish this nonsense. I see no way to make that wish come true.

[Jimbo07]

My wish is that people would not publish this nonsense. I see no way to make that wish come true.

Maybe the "Secret" will help!

:D

[777]

You're right. I won't watch gullible people fall for something that isn't true: your quote is spurious - provide a reliable citation or withdraw it.

. . . . . . . .
As for "Zero Limits," what do you propose we do? Folks have been selling woo-based self-help books for decades. They will continue to do so for decades to come. Exposing the writers as frauds does not seem to slow sales. Posting messages on believers' boards results in bannings, anger, condescension, or mockery.

Given the way this book is pitched, I expect some of the buyers to be people who have mentally ill relatives. That situation can be painful and frustrating. Many believe that if they could just show the mentally ill person that he is loved and accepted, then the more severe symptoms might go away. This book will be preying on those people.

My wish is that people would not publish this nonsense. I see no way to make that wish come true.

http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_stupidity.html is one of the places you can find the quote. Sorry about that.
Now, as of ZL, I think we could do more than, if you will excuse my language, intellectual masturbation. Obviously saying things like "you are wrong" doesn't do, but maybe we can use a softer way to challenge their beliefs.

[777]

http://blog.mrfire.com/secret/the-best-cleaning-method/
Ah, the mind and its questions.

You might want to read the actual book, rather than asking me to write one here in response to your probes. :).

All the best,
joe

The above is the response I got to the questions. I tried to disguise myself... I even used their signature... but sounds like I failed.
Any comments?

[777]

Here's what we should do. We challenge the followers of the secret and zerolimits to make this forum disappear in 10 days.

[Ladewig]

http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_stupidity.html is one of the places you can find the quote.

After looking at your link, I poked around and found the quote on many other sites as well. The catch is I am unsure how reliable these other sites are. Sometimes the internet acts as a huge echo chamber that simply repeats what is typed onto one page.

Does anyone know the best way to confirm or debunk this quote?


Obviously saying things like "you are wrong" doesn't do, but maybe we can use a softer way to challenge their beliefs.

There are regular JREFers that do use a softer approach. They ask co-workers, friends and relatives questions like, "what would the world really be like if this idea were true." They then discuss the ramifications and gently lead people to the point that they see the logical contradictions in the asserted philosophy. E.g. if Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len was sending thoughts of forgiveness towards this criminal in a mental ward, why would those thoughts outweigh the thoughts of all the criminal's victims, the thoughts of all the criminals victims' families, the thoughts of the criminal himself, and the thoughts of all the other patients who dislike the criminal? Or, if this were true, then couldn't people like Dr. Len train enough people to end all the conflicts in the Middle East?

If there were Zero Limits folks on our board we could say: We've all heard examples of stories that became very exaggerated in each retelling, how do we know this isn't a case of the story being too good to be true. But they aren't here.

Also, most of the mockery seemed to me to be aimed at the hucksters selling this hogwash, not at the believers buying the books.

[777]

On the Einstein quote:
I thought it was one of the more famous quote by Einstein, but I guess there is no way of knowing if it was made up... Well, human stupidity is probably infinite anyway.
On the challenges:
That's why I think we should find ways to raise awareness and find more proactive solutions.
Mockery:
Yes. I do believe that the greedy nutjobs who publish those things are at blame here. And the best bet we have is to raise awareness.

Talking about raise awareness, let's start a skeptical enlightenment cult. (evil laugh)

[Sasha]

This is very scary (emphasis mine):
"After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being allowed to walk freely," he told me. "Others who had to be heavily medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no chance of ever being released were being freed."

So there's no corroboration that any of this happened? I couldn't find anything.

[blobru]

This is very scary (emphasis mine):
"After a few months, patients that had to be shackled were being allowed to walk freely," he told me. "Others who had to be heavily medicated were getting off their medications. And those who had no chance of ever being released were being freed."

So there's no corroboration that any of this happened? I couldn't find anything.


My guess (reading between the lines of their next paragraph for some grain of truth in this avalanche of crap):
I was in awe.

"Not only that," he went on, "but the staff began to enjoy coming to work. Absenteeism and turnover disappeared. We ended up with more staff than we needed because patients were being released, and all the staff was showing up to work. Today, that ward is closed."

... the ward was being closed down in stages, patients trucked out; staff laid off or transferred, on best behavior to ensure jobs at the new unit.
Sometimes these crap artists like to stretch the truth rather than just make it up. Of course, it might be totally made-up crap too. I'll eat crap for a month if this story is ever corroborated.

This website was infused with energy to help clean you of negative programs and beliefs as you view it. As you sit there looking at this site, you might notice a quieting and relaxing taking place. Just relax, breath slowly and let go. Enjoy the peace.Do you use a server side include to do that?

It's a standard WooML tag I think. :D

[Sasha]

I get it - the ward was probably already being closed down anyway for whatever reason, (unrelated to the "curings") and was used as a convenient example for this guy to make his claims. :(

[blobru]

I get it - the ward was probably already being closed down anyway for whatever reason, (unrelated to the "curings") and was used as a convenient example for this guy to make his claims. :(

That's a total guess on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like that.
Or again, it might be complete and shameless fabrication.
The only thing I know for sure is that joKe vitaleS & dr. hewJ PIle_n are so full of **** a colonic for either would be tantamount to suicide! :sour:

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

I think in this case, trying to search for evidence that this happened would do more harm than good.

You see, when skeptics doubt something, the magical effects can be lessened, or even worse, go away altogether.

Do you want to be responsible for making an entire ward of freed criminally insane patients to go nuts again? I certainly don't.

Let's just sit back, relax, breath slowly and let go. Enjoy that peaceful whooshing sound between your ears. It sounds like the ocean.

[Sasha]

Your warning may have come a little too late; if bad vibes can change the effects, than this thread has probably caused untold damage and reversals of cured madness. But as long as the peacefull whooshing sound isn't an axe coming at me, I can live with it.

[Moochie]

Regarding the quote attributed to Einstein, I've been aware of it since at least the 60s, when I saw it in a book I was reading. Since then, I have seen it numerous times -- on paper and on the web -- and, AFAIK, it's always been attributed to Einstein.

Personally, I don't care who said it; its verity is self-evident.

M.

[articulett]

Following from that we should charge mothers of disabled children with abuse and depraved indifference because she willed that spine to not close up or that extra chromosome into being.

Yeah... and just tell those victims of pedophilia clergy that they drew it too them... and that nobody cared enough to think their victimizer healthy I guess.

[dudalb]

Regarding the quote attributed to Einstein, I've been aware of it since at least the 60s, when I saw it in a book I was reading. Since then, I have seen it numerous times -- on paper and on the web -- and, AFAIK, it's always been attributed to Einstein.

Personally, I don't care who said it; its verity is self-evident.

M.

Einstein probably never said it.
But every day I get more proof that whoever said it was 1000% accurate.