The Terry Pratchett Thread

[H3LL]

Well I'm a fan.

Random quotes and the occasional reference to TP appear sporadically on the forum so I know there are closet TP aficionados lurking out there so I thought it about time to have a thread devoted to his work.

Not knowing quite where to start something like this and hoping that the thread will develop on its own, I'll just start with a few comments and list his writings and leave it to you (or the thread dungeons).

Without a doubt my favourite novel is Mort (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mort-Discworld-Novel-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552131067/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120230&sr=1-1), with Guards! Guards! (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guards-Discworld-Novel-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552134627/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120299&sr=1-1) a close second.

Granny Weatherwax is my most loved character followed by Nobby and Havelock Vetinari. That probably says more about me than I want. ;)

His last two adult novels, Going Postal (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Going-Postal-Discworld-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552149438/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120538&sr=1-1) and Thud! (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thud-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552152676/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120566&sr=1-1), although enjoyable, not among his better work IMHO. The last novel I thoroughly enjoyed would be Thief of Time (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thief-Discworld-Novel-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552148407/ref=sr_1_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120610&sr=1-1).

I know that TP is torn between developing new ideas and demands for more stories about favourite characters (more Lu-Tze, Susan, Death, Granny etc. etc.... please) but I still delight in his work, including the children's books...."Crivens!".

New book coming soon:

Making Money (http://www.harpercollins.com/features/pratchettbooks/description.aspx?isbn=9780061161643) September 18th, 2007 - The return of Moist von Lipwig (Hmmm!) and Vetinari (Hurrah!)

I haven't seen the Hogfather (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hogfather-Limited-David-Jason/dp/B000MRP3YE/ref=sr_1_2/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1187122379&sr=1-2) film yet...Is it any good?

I'm also curious about how well received TP is in Europe, USA and elsewhere...If at all.

That's about it for starters.

"Age and wisdom don't necessarily go together. Some people just become stupid with more authority." - TP

Now the list.....

Terry Pratchett Bibliography

Discworld
1. The Colour of Magic (1983)
2. The Light Fantastic (1986)
3. Equal Rites (1987)
4. Mort (1987)
5. Sourcery (1988)
6. Wyrd Sisters (1988)
7. Pyramids (1989)
8. Guards! Guards! (1989)
9. Eric (1990)
10. Moving Pictures (1990)
11. Reaper Man (1991)
12. Witches Abroad (1991)
13. Small Gods (1992)
14. Lords and Ladies (1992)
15. Men at Arms (1993)
16. Soul Music (1994)
17. Interesting Times (1994)
18. Maskerade (1995)
19. Feet of Clay (1996)
20. Hogfather (1996)
21. Jingo (1997)
22. The Last Continent (1998)
23. Carpe Jugulum (1998)
24. The Fifth Elephant (1999)
25. The Truth (2000)
The Last Hero (2001) (with Paul Kidby)
26. Thief of Time (2001)
27. Night Watch (2002)
28. Monstrous Regiment (2003)
29. Going Postal (2004)
30. Thud! (2005)
31. Making Money (2007)

Bromeliad
1. Truckers (1988)
2. Diggers (1990)
3. Wings (1990)
The Bromeliad (omnibus) (1998)

Johnny Maxwell
1. Only You Can Save Mankind (1992)
2. Johnny and the Dead (1993)
3. Johnny and the Bomb (1996)
1. Only You Can Save Mankind (1992)
2. Johnny and the Dead (1993)
3. Johnny and the Bomb (1996)
The Johnny Maxwell Trilogy (omnibus) (1997)

Discworld omnibus
Death Trilogy (omnibus) (1998)
The City Watch (omnibus) (1999)
The Colour of Magic / The Light Fantastic (omnibus) (1999)
Gods Trilogy (omnibus) (2000)

Discworld (Childrens)
1. Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents (2001)
2. The Wee Free Men (2003)
3. A Hat Full of Sky (2004)
4. Wintersmith (2006)
Discworld (picture book)
Where's My Cow? (2005)

Novels
The Carpet People (1971)
The Dark Side of the Sun (1976)
Strata (1981)
The Unadulterated Cat (1989) (with Gray Joliffe)
Good Omens (1990) (with Neil Gaiman)
Collections
Once More* with Footnotes (2004)

Plays
Going Postal: Stage Adaptation (2005)
Jingo: Stage Adaptation (2005)
Terry Pratchett's Hogfather: The Illustrated Screenplay (2006)

Non fiction series
The Science of Discworld (1992) (with Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart)
Streets of Ankh Morpork (1993)
The Discworld Companion (1994)
The Pratchett Portfolio (1996)
Discworld's Ankh-Morpork City Watch Diary (1998)
The Discworld: Day-to-Day Calendar (1998)
A Tourist Guide to Lancre (1998) (with Stephen Briggs, Paul Kidby)
Death's Domain: A Discworld Mapp (1999) (with Paul Kidby)
Discworld - Mini Calendar 2000 (1999)
Discworld Assassins' Guild Yearbook and Diary 2000 (1999)
Nanny Ogg's Cookbook (1999) (with Stephen Briggs, Tina Hannan)
The Discworld Calendar: 2001 (2000)
0. The Discworld Fools' Guild Yearbook and Diary 2001 (2000)
The Discworld Mapp (2000) (with Stephen Briggs)
Discworld Also (2001)
The Discworld Calendar: 2002 (2001)
The Discworld Fools' Guild Yearbook and Diary 2002 (2001)
Discworld Thieves' Guild Diary 2002 (2001)
Discworld Guild Diary 2003 (2002)
The New Discworld Companion (2002)
The Science of Discworld II: The Globe (2002)
Discworld Calendar 2004 (2003)
The Art of Discworld (2004) (with Paul Kidby)
The Celebrated Discworld Almanac (2004)
Discworld Calendar 2005 (2004)
The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch (2005)
"The Ankh-Morpork Post Office Handbook:
Discworld Diary 2007 (2006) (with Stephen Briggs)"
The Wit and Wisdom of Discworld (2007)

Anthologies containing stories by Terry Pratchett
The Unfriendly Future (1965)
Gaslight and Ghosts (1988)
Hidden Turnings (1989)
Digital Dreams (1990)
Shivers for Christmas (1995)
The Wizards of Odd: Comic Tales of Fantasy (1996)
Cyber-Killers (1997)
The Flying Sorcerers (1997)
Knights of Madness: Further Comic Tales of Fantasy (1998)
Legends (1998)
The Mammoth Book of Comic Fantasy (1998)
Vintage Science Fiction (1999)
Legends 3 (2000)

Short stories
The Hades Business (1963)
Twenty Pence with Envelope and Seasonal Greetings (1987)
Final Reward (1988)
Sphinx (1988)
Turntables of the Night (1989)
# ifdefDEBUG + "world/enough" + "time" (1990)
Hollywood Chickens (1990)
Troll Bridge (1992)
Theatre of Cruelty (1993)
The Sea and Little Fishes (1998)

Books about Terry Pratchett
The Unseen University Challenge (1996) by David Langford
"Discworld II - Missing Presumed ...:
the Official Strategy Guide (1996) by Paul Kidd"
"Terry Pratchett: Guilty of Literature (2000)
by Andrew M Butler, Edward James and Farah Mendlesohn"
The Wyrdest Link (2002) by David Langford
"Dragons of Fantasy: The Scaly Villains and Heroes of Tolkien,
Rowling, McCaffrey,
Pratchett and Other Fantasy Greats (2004) by Anne C Petty"

Official Website: terrypratchettbooks.com (http://terrypratchettbooks.com/)

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[Rasmus]

I kinda dislike his various takes on modern / round world phenomena. I thought this was particualry bad in Moving Pictures - which, of course, I still enjoyed reading.

It's nice to see that I still have a lot of reading ahead of me, too.

[H3LL]

I kinda dislike his various takes on modern / round world phenomena. I thought this was particualry bad in Moving Pictures - which, of course, I still enjoyed reading.

It's nice to see that I still have a lot of reading ahead of me, too.

It is a recurring theme which he doesn't always pull off. In both Moving Pictures and Soul Music I didn't think he managed it. He does better when it is only an aspect of Discworld and not a whole novel. For example,The Clacks, is/are(?) hilarious for me. Maskarade worked better, but had a better 'fit' into Discworld from the start.

"A chocolate you did not want to eat does not count as chocolate. This discovery is from the same brand of culinary physics that determined that food eaten while walking along contains no calories". - TP

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[Rasmus]

It is a recurring theme which he doesn't always pull off. In both Moving Pictures and Soul Music I didn't think he managed it. He does better when it is only an aspect of Discworld and not a whole novel. For example,The Clacks, is/are(?) hilarious for me. Maskarade worked better, but had a better 'fit' into Discworld from the start.

Both sephamore towers and newspapers are things taken from real life. No problem there, and I did like Going Postal, too. Because, I think, at the most he just borrowed a few ideas and didn't just copy every last detail and then use a sledge hammer to fit it into discworld.

[Lucy82]

It is a recurring theme which he doesn't always pull off. In both Moving Pictures and Soul Music I didn't think he managed it. He does better when it is only an aspect of Discworld and not a whole novel. For example,The Clacks, is/are(?) hilarious for me. Maskarade worked better, but had a better 'fit' into Discworld from the start.


I actually disagree about Soul Music - it's one of my favourites. The 'one extended theme' thing doesn't always work, but it does in this case as it's so cleverly done.

Maskerade, Wyrd Sisters, Guards! Guards! and Reaper Man are also great.

And who could forget Good Omens? Neil Gaiman is a genius.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I haven't seen the Hogfather (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hogfather-Limited-David-Jason/dp/B000MRP3YE/ref=sr_1_2/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1187122379&sr=1-2) film yet...Is it any good?


I liked it very much.

Susan was a lot cooler than I'd've thought, and Death's face was too frozen. (I wish they could've done some special effects--the mask just wasn't so great.)

I'm also curious about how well received TP is in Europe, USA and elsewhere...If at all.
I for one am a huge Pratchett fan here in the U.S.

Unfortunately, it seems most adults here find it fashionable to read children's literature---something about a school for wizards. You know, 5th grade reading level. . . .

[NobbyNobbs]

Considering my self-given moniker, I just had to poke my head in here.

In short, I recently reread Goig Postal, and I still love it.

I didn't know there was a Hogfather movie....I wonder if I can get it through Netflix...?

More later, no time now...gotta shag a cigarette butt from inside my shoe.....

[H3LL]

And who could forget Good Omens? Neil Gaiman is a genius.

Agreed. You might like this:


"Neil and I had known each other since early 1985. Doing it was our idea, not a publisher's deal."

"I think this is an honest account of the process of writing Good Omens (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/good-omens.html). It was fairly easy to keep track of because of the way we sent discs to one another, and because I was Keeper of the Official Master Copy I can say that I wrote a bit over two thirds of Good Omens (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/good-omens.html). However, we were on the phone to each other every day, at least once. If you have an idea during a brainstorming session with another guy, whose idea is it? One guy goes and writes 2,000 words after thirty minutes on the phone, what exactly is the process that's happening?
I did most of the physical writing because:
1) I had to. Neil had to keep Sandman going -- I could take time off from the DW;

2) One person has to be overall editor, and do all the stitching and filling and slicing and, as I've said before, it was me by agreement -- if it had been a graphic novel, it would have been Neil taking the chair for exactly the same reasons it was me for a novel;

3) I'm a selfish bastard and tried to write ahead to get to the good bits before Neil.


Initially, I did most of Adam and the Them and Neil did most of the Four Horsemen, and everything else kind of got done by whoever -- by the end, large sections were being done by a composite creature called Terryandneil, whoever was actually hitting the keys. By agreement, I am allowed to say that Agnes Nutter, her life and death, was completely and utterly mine. And Neil proudly claims responsibility for the maggots. Neil's had a major influence on the opening scenes, me on the ending. In the end, it was this book done by two guys, who shared the money equally and did it for fun and wouldn't do it again for a big clock."

"Yes, the maggot reversal was by me, with a gun to Neil's head (although he understood the reasons, it's just that he likes maggots). There couldn't be blood on Adam's hands, even blood spilled by third parties. No-one should die because he was alive."


"Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying "End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH," the paint wouldn't even have time to dry". - TP

[Hawk one]

OK, here's a short, spoiler-free review of all the books I've read:


The Colour of magic: First Discworld book, and it shows. Pretty much Douglas Adams in a fantasy setting. That is, a lot of random and unrelated happenings going by one after another. Great gags the first time, not so good afterwards.

The Light Fantastic: Pretty much more of the same. Some hints of a red thread showing, but still early works.

Equal Rites: Easily the weakest book. First real attempt at a plot, but Granny Weatherwax isn't well enough developed, partially thanks to the lack of the other witches, which she needs around her.

Mort: Now we're finally starting to see the edges of what Pratchett is capable of. Mort's growth as a person in particular seems to be making a difference, though it feels a bit rushed.

Sourcery: More Rincewind. Slightly too chaotic, but also some great gags. Such as the introduction of the greatest thief in the world.

Wyrd Sisters: And now we're beginning to talk about books that can be reread. A well-rounded, slightly dysfunctional witches' coven, and a situation that really gets worse (for the witches) before it gets better.

Pyramids: Good enough book, though Pteppic is a rather flat main character. Guess that's one reason why he was never used again.

Guards, Guards: The first book with (then) Captain Vimes. I've always enjoyed Vimes and Carrot because amongst other things, they serve as two examples on just how different personalities two people who would arguable both be Lawful Good in Hackmaster can have.

Faust Eric: Falling back on old sins of having one random thing happening after another. That's not what makes a Pratchett book good.

Moving Pictures: Not too fond of this one, but I'm not a movie buff. Still, it provided some interesting setups for future books...

Reaper Man: Death as a main character must be one hell of a challenge, really. Which makes this book all the better for pulling it off. You can spot how working with Gaiman must have changed his style, and in my opinion for the better. Because when you really realise that Death is right, that having a clock ticking takes away valuable seconds of your life... And you need to reread the book to really take that in, to get past the gags.

Witches Abroad: A typical witch book. If you like the witch trio, you'll like this one.

Small Gods: Possibly the best book with a non-reoccuring main character. This time we get to be there as Brutha grows, and the underlying (though not deeply) message about religion is all the more powerful thanks to Pratchett's compassion for Brutha.

Lords and Ladies: Another typical witch book. A bit weaker than Witches Abroad, but the passage about what elves are is still one of the best uses of language.

Men At Arms: The second Vimes book. Carrot has already grown as a character into something more than the (arguably well done) charicature that he was in the first book. Otherwise, not the best of the Vimes books.

Soul Music: Enter Susan sto Helit. She's not really an endearing character, but she's not meant to be, not even to herself. It's a bit strange. Overall, about average.

Interesting Times: I read this one fairly early, and I laughed my ass off. When put in a proper plot, Rincewind is a really good character, because he can make things turn in a way nobody else can, and while you may expect this, you still can't predict -how- he will make things turn out.

Maskerade: I like this book, especially lately as I've started to understand opera better. The dialogues between Bucket and Salzella are priceless. It was also a good move to get a new third witch, because as Pratchett's characters really grow and change now, Magrat simply couldn't be a wet hen forever.

Feet of Clay: A good Vimes book. Vimes himself is sort of where he should be, and some of the underlying messages here makes for a good reread.

Hogfather: Susan and Death is back. Death trying to be Hogfather is pretty damn funny, as are some of the things popping out from slosh belief. Not too good a reread, though.

Jingo: It's a good Vimes book. Simple as that.

The Last Continent: It's pretty damn funny, but eventually, you can also see why Rincewind hasn't been used since in the main series. Because while he makes great situations, his character isn't that deep, or allowing for growth. So, it's the situations he creates that are really the good stuff about him. Using him again would present a good challenge for Pratchett.

Carpe Jugulum: This one is very special. The passages early on with only Granny Weatherwax doesn't contain a single gag, and if you're expecting hilarity, you'll be disappointed. But upon rereading it, you'll discover that said passages are extremely well (and darkly) written, revealing what has only been hinted at previously about Granny. It's downright chilling at times. So, not as easily available, but still worth it.

The Fifth Elephant: Not as good as Jingo, but hey, we're comparing pearls to pearls here.

The Truth: Pretty good book, especially the way Mr. Pin is losing it.

Thief of Time: A sudden return of what was only a minor character. Lu-Tze is an excellent parody of the all-knowing master, and Lobsang/Jeremy definitely makes an interesting character mix, especially when rereading it. Still, not entirely the best book.

Night Watch: I guess Pratchett wondered a bit on how to make the man on top of the world lose everything without it having to be permanent. That he managed to actually pull off what is sort of a cliché (time travel) as well as exploring how much you actually change over the years, stands as a testament to just how good a writer he is.

Monstrous Regiment: It's OK, but not the best. Once again, Pratchett attacks religion in such a way that it's almost impossible to complain about it even if you are religious.

Going Postal: I really like this book. Moist is one of the most interesting new characters for a while, and I particularly like how he and I share some traits, such as sounding like an expert to a non-expert on almost any subject, and how it's about giving a show. Plot is well-rounded, and tightly executed. It's mostly a bit lighter than usual of Pratchett's later works, but still enough dark spots that can chill you.

Thud: A good Vimes book, darker than usual. I like dark, though. But maybe you don't.

Good Omens: I keep maintaining that working with Gaiman helped Pratchett grow as a writer and influenced his style (especially as seen in Reaper Man, Carpe Jugulum, and Thud!). I get the feeling that when working on this book, Pratchett tried to cram in even more gags all the time, while Gaiman forced him to remember the plot. The end result is in any case a great collaborative work, something that is a rather rare occurance.

Johnny and the Dead: Early book, and it shows. Weak compared to Discworld (though most things are weak compared to Discworld), and mostly of historical interest, I guess.

All in all, I can only say this: That Pratchett has maintained his quality for over two decades now is really a feat that few will do him after.

Oh, and Pratchett is pretty damn popular in Norway. I know he's regularly translated, but I always buy his books in English, which you can also find at any decent-sized bookstore.

[andyandy]

Oook!

[Hawk one]

Oook!Reported for incivility and circumventing the rule about those forbidden words.

[Gurdur]

Just to say I love every Pterry book. I've been to three of the official main DiscWorld conventions, in Hinckley, and I plan to go to many more.

[Gilmar]

Big fan here, since Colour of Magic was published in the early 80's in the USA. I'm also fond of the official DW-related stuff at http://www.discworldemporium.com/index.php, particularly the stamps. A great place to spend too much money.

[H3LL]

I'd just like to say how nice it is to see such quick and interesting replies.

Loved the synopsisisiss from Hawk. Thanks for the work you put into that...I'm not brave enough :p

Feet of Clay has just gone in my pile of books to read/re-read, but it will have to wait a bit.

"What you have to remember is that in the movies there are two types of people 1) the directors, artists, actors and so on who have to do things and are often quite human and 2) the other lifeforms. Unfortunately you have to deal with the other lifeforms first. It is impossible to exaggerate their baleful stupidity." - TP - Interview on future movie possibilities

[Pipirr]

Love Pratchett. The Nac Mac Feegle are fantastic:

"Ach, here's a headful o' dandruff for ye, ye bogle!"

Reminds me of Scotland, and a Glawegian lass I used to know...

[eir_de_scania]

I'm a total Discworld fan. There's a couple of problems, though. There are many DW fans in Sweden but I've never met any. So no-one understand why I'm grinning at totally unfunny things, like a Ken Follet novel on display in a supermarket. Or a picture of Mona Lisa. A DW fan would understand I got a Night Watch/Mona Ogg moment.

And I do call orangs "librarians" if I don't watch myself.:boxedin:

[christie malry]

Small Gods is the best DW novel, definitely. Good Omens the best of all. Started getting bored around Maskerade, and haven't read anything since The Truth - I'm reading Science of Discworld at the moment though - I like the cover with its allusion (rip-off) of Joseph Wright's The Bell Jar.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Reported for incivility and circumventing the rule about those forbidden words.
I dare you to call him a "monkey"!

Love Pratchett. The Nac Mac Feegle are fantastic:

"Ach, here's a headful o' dandruff for ye, ye bogle!"

Reminds me of Scotland, and a Glawegian lass I used to know...

She liked to carry off the "ships" did she?

My favorite Discworld is usually whichever one I've read most recently. I have a special fondness for the first one I read, Jingo. Given the politics here in the U.S. for the past 7 years, I think it should be required reading here.

[vIQleS]

I've just finished reading Wintersmith, the culmination of my quest to reread the entire discworld series in order. Interestingly, I discovered that I hadn't read (or had completely forgotten the plot of) Hat Full of Sky. It took me about a year, but I spent a lot of time waiting for the next book to come in to the library...

I like them all, and i don't really have a favourite book or character, I could probably find a least favourite, but i don't really think of the books as individuals, they're all components of a bigger story, and so it's never occurred to me to compare them.

It’s like trying to figure out which is the worst stargate:SG1 episode. In any run or series, you're going to get some that are slightly better and some that are slightly worse. Unless it was really, really bad, you don't learn anything by judging the quality.

Having said that; the characters and locations seem to get more interesting as the series progresses, obviously as more is learnt about the characters, and their personalities and histories are expanded and give them more depth.

[H3LL]

The movie rumour-mill has suggested that David Jason (http://imdb.com/name/nm0419248/) is to play Rincewind in the new adaptation of The Colour of Magic (http://imdb.com/title/tt1079959/).

I always imagined someone younger and skinnier. Jason is a fine and flexible actor...Should be fun.

"[Vetinari] A keen believer in the principle of One Man, One Vote; he is the Man, so he's got the vote". - TP

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[brodski]

I love Pratchets Discworld books, even the “kids” ones, which still have a few “adult” (as in aimed at adults, not as in obscene) jokes in them. The only DW book I havn’t read is “the last hero”.

I think the best one off book is Wyrd Sisters, but I love what he’s done with some continuing characters, the Night Watch in particular- I loved “Nightwatch” and “Thud” as well.

I found Moving pictures quite week, and the Rinciwind series never really grabbed me, even though I like both Rincwind and Twoflower as characters.

Oh, and the Hogfather movie was (IMHO) rubbish, stick to the animated adaptations, much better.

[3point14]

Love Pterry, as you may be able to tell from my Sig.

I love the way he can make me look at a situation differently, and the subtlety with which he puts things across, particularly in the more observational stuff like Jingo or Small Gods.

I also love his imagination, and his ability to make me laugh out loud like an idiot on the train. Everyone looks, I don't care.

Also, if you see Pratchett being read in public, it's very easy to ask 'which one are you reading?' and almost invaiably, behind the book is a civilised, pleasant human being. I think that says a lot, although I'm not sure what.

I even directed the play 'Guards, Guards' a little while ago, which was fun, but hard work.

This (http://www.newstagers.co.uk/images/gg4.jpg) is 'my' Vimes with Errol, who was made by my genius sort of co-director.


I keep thinking about doing another one, maybe 'Men at Arms' (I love the Vimes-Carrot-Detritus axis) but it's pretty daunting.

[SomeGuy]

I am one of the outcast fans apparently, because Soul Music ranks amongst my favourite of his books.

Of course you need to have some knowledge of music with rocks in... errmm.. rock music.

But "We're defenitally dwarves" cracked me up (They might be giants, being one of Pratchetts and mine favourite bands).

I also loved how he subtly wove the accusation of rock music being obsessed with death into the storyline with the whole Imp y Celin/Susan (acting Dead(the anthropomorphic personification, not the state) at the time) plot line.

The passage with the guys trying to come up with a band name while no less than 25 (and maybe some that I missed) famous band names are woven into the text is a classic.

[3point14]

I love Pratchets Discworld books, even the “kids” ones, which still have a few “adult” (as in aimed at adults, not as in obscene) jokes in them. The only DW book I havn’t read is “the last hero”.






Brodski! Do read 'The Last Hero' it really is Cohen and his Silver Hoard at their very best, and ends brilliantly. Also, Paul Kidby's artwork is fantastic. If I were rich, I'd try and buy originals.



Someone above comented that Faust Eric was a bit jumpy (cf TLF and TCOM) and it was, but I think that was becuase it was originally written as a big format book with lots of Josh Kirby artwork in it.

[3point14]

I am one of the outcast fans apparently, because Soul Music ranks amongst my favourite of his books.

Of course you need to have some knowledge of music with rocks in... errmm.. rock music.

But "We're defenitally dwarves" cracked me up (They might be giants, being one of Pratchetts and mine favourite bands).

I also loved how he subtly wove the accusation of rock music being obsessed with death into the storyline with the whole Imp y Celin/Susan (acting Dead(the anthropomorphic personification, not the state) at the time) plot line.

The passage with the guys trying to come up with a band name while no less than 25 (and maybe some that I missed) famous band names are woven into the text is a classic.

You're not alone - I love Soul Music too. Particularly Scum and co. and the Leapord skin clothing..

[Gurdur]

You're not alone - I love Soul Music too. ...

Yup, me too.

[Yllanes]

Without a doubt my favourite novel is Mort (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mort-Discworld-Novel-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552131067/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120230&sr=1-1), with Guards! Guards! (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guards-Discworld-Novel-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0552134627/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187120299&sr=1-1) a close second.
Mine is Night Watch, followed by Thief of Time. I have a special place for Men At Arms, which was the first of the 'mature' (i.e. with plot) DW books that I read and the one that really got me hooked.


Granny Weatherwax is my most loved character followed by Nobby and Havelock Vetinari. That probably says more about me than I want. ;)


Mine is Vetinary. The people who have read proof copies of Making money say he has a big role there, so I'm really looking forward to that book.

I haven't seen the Hogfather (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hogfather-Limited-David-Jason/dp/B000MRP3YE/ref=sr_1_2/203-0780861-0865549?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1187122379&sr=1-2) film yet...Is it any good?
Worth seeing. I think it must be unbearable for anyone who hasn't read the books, because the pace is completely off. It reminds me of the last Harry Potter movie, in that it consists of a series of well done individual scenes that are not linked properly.

I'm also curious about how well received TP is in Europe, USA and elsewhere...If at all.

There's some following in Spain, but I would guess it is concentrated in univsersity students. The first translations were not good (although I'm hearing the latest ones are much better). I only read Equal Rites (the weakest book, by the way) and Pyramids in Spanish. I don't know what's the last book to have been translated, but only a couple of years ago they were launching Soul Music, so that should give you an idea. However, there are Pratchett paperbacks in every library, even in newsstands. And the bigger ones have all the books in English too. Here in Madrid it is very easy to get all the paperbacks, both in their British and American editions.

Hawk one: I see you haven't read The Last Hero, go do it now. It didn't look that interesting to me at first, but the art is gorgeous and really an important part of the story (unlike in the illustrated Eric). Also, the introduction of Evil Harry Dread is the funniest passage in all of DW.

[Shrike]

Where to start?

Pratchett was introduced to me by my neighbour while living in Germany. First book I read was Hogfather, which had me in stitches.

I used to go to the nearest city with a big train station (Wiesbaden), because they sold TP in English. Desopite being Dutch, I've read everyting in English.
No, one short story in Dutch, but to me it doesn't work (neither does Douglas Adams, come to think of it - Ford Prefect was renamed after a bank...).
Reading this made me think of my favourite characters, but they are too many to mention. I'll give it a go: Nac Mac Feegle, Death, Greebo (especially in human form), Hex, the Bursar, the Dean, Ridcully, Vimes, Vetinari....

I'm lucky to have a co-worker who's also read Pratchett, so we get to mention quite a few things. He always says OOK when I reach for my banana, and you don't wanna know what happens when we 'reboot' our computers...

Ooh nearly forgot: My favourite books are actually the 'Science of Discworld' series. To me a very good introduction into sciences.

And more to add: There are torrents out there with all books in audio book.

[Jackalgirl]

Yay! Terry Pratchett!

Night Watch is my favorite. "You do the job that's in front of you." I just love love love Sam Vimes. When Pratchett writes from the POV of Sam Vimes, some wonderful and incredibly pithy observations about human nature come out -- the grittier side of human nature, that is, and something that really speaks to me as a military person.

Mort was the first one I read, and I really loved it too -- I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the anthropomorphic form of Death and the way Pratchett portrays him is hilarious.

Vetinari is fabulous too. Loved him in Night Watch. Of course, I love him whenever he shows up. Given the current slate of US candidates for President, I think I might just write-in Vetinari. We could hardly do worse, cxu ne? ; )

[brodski]

Mort was the first one I read, and I really loved it too -- I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the anthropomorphic form of Death and the way Pratchett portrays him is hilarious.

I think that Mort is the gateway drug to Pratchett. It seems to be the first Pratchett book offered too, and read by the majority of those that go onto to be Ptrerry junkies ;)

[H3LL]

Brodski...As they say....The Last Hero is a must read and Dark Lord, Evil Harry Dread and his Shed of Doom is just fabulous.

I completely missed many of the music references in Soul Music and it never occured to me to make the connection for We're Definitely Dwarves.

Curses, another goes in the re/read pile :D

"It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things". - TP.

[H3LL]

This (http://www.newstagers.co.uk/images/gg4.jpg)is 'my' Vimes with Errol, who was made by my genius sort of co-director.

Just too good to leave as a link.

Pinched it and uploaded it to JREF to add here.

Hope you don't mind :D

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_318046c2e24a146f1.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7746)

Princess Esmerelda Margaret Note Spelling of Lancre
Daughter of King Verence II and Magrat Garlick, Princess Esme made her appearance in Carpe Jugulum. Her unusual middle names are the result of a Lancre tradition that whatever the priest says at the naming ceremony is your name (Thus, Lancre once had a king called Ye-Gods-He's-Heavy the First, as well as a current farmer named James What the Hell's That Cow Doing in Here Poorchick, usually called 'Moocow'). Magrat owed her own name to a combination of this tradition and her mother's inability to spell "Margaret", and was determined it wouldn't happen again. - TP

.

[christie malry]

Oh, and the Hogfather movie was (IMHO) rubbish, stick to the animated adaptations, much better.

Not seen the ITV Xmas Special, so can't compare, but the Cosgrove Hall animations were pretty rubbish I thought. Loyal to the books, OK, but not great as cartoons in their own right.

Aside: wonder if that's why the oft-mooted Good Omens film hasn't quite made it out of development hell yet?

[Sir Arthur Mortal Coyle]

Another fan here, I was lucky enough to start collecting his books many, many years ago, including "Carpet people" so have lots of first editions, some signed, which are all happily going up in worth as we speak, Hoorah.

Anyone know a good librarian who can reach those high shelves?

[H3LL]

Aside: wonder if that's why the oft-mooted Good Omens film hasn't quite made it out of development hell yet?

Not sure how recent this is, but......

"It could have been worse. I've heard what Good Omens was looking like by the time Sovereign's option mercifully ran out -- set in America, no Four Horsemen... oh god". - TP Interview


"The duke had a mind that ticked like a clock and, like a clock, it regularly went cuckoo". - TP

.

[Kotatsu]

I'm a total Discworld fan. There's a couple of problems, though. There are many DW fans in Sweden but I've never met any.

Do you live in a box? Here in Gothenburg, I can hardly put my feet down without stepping on a Pratchett fan. I don't think there's anyone in our RPG society who doesn't like Pratchett, and most could easily give a short review of any given book, or at least quote something. There's even plans for roleplaying in Ankh-Morpork during the fall, so if you live anywhere near Gothenburg, and can easily get there more or less regularly, please come and play. We're usually in the Students' House near Avenyn.

Personally, I think the only decent books he's written since Carpe Jugulum are Night Watch and Last Hero. I couldn't get rid of the feeling that books like Going Postal and Monstrous Regiment were sort of hurried just because he needed to buy a new car and knew people would buy anything with his name on it. They are nowhere near as lame as Last Continent, but they're very close. As soon as he started modernizing Ankh-Morpork too much, I lost more or less all interest in the books.

However, due to a misalignment of my loyalty gland, I have still bought most of the newer books.

[3point14]

Just too good to leave as a link.

Pinched it and uploaded it to JREF to add here.

Hope you don't mind :D




Mind? I'm honoured. (So is Errol.) :)

[3point14]

Personally, I think the only decent books he's written since Carpe Jugulum are Night Watch and Last Hero. I couldn't get rid of the feeling that books like Going Postal and Monstrous Regiment were sort of hurried just because he needed to buy a new car and knew people would buy anything with his name on it.

I think this is unlikely, I'm pretty certain that if he needs a new car, he can afford one without having to rush a book, I suspect they are pretty much what he intended them to be.

I'm pretty certain he is a sceptic, too, or at least has a sceptical mindset. He's a very keen amateur astronomer as well, and has a wicked little building for his telescope, built by a boat builder, I believe. (He, Brian May and several others featured on a TV show about astronomy I watched a while ago

[christie malry]

I'm pretty certain that if he needs a new car, he can afford one without having to rush a book

I remember Robert Rankin saying he'd met Pratchett and the first thing he'd said was along the lines of 'it's hard you know. I'm trying to decide whether to buy my second home in the South of France or portugal.'

So, not too broke and not too modest about it either then...

[Flo]

Big Pratchett fan here. The first I read in the early 90s was Wyrd Sisters, I picked a copy at Geneva train station thinking I would abandon it on the train if I didn't like it. During the 1/2 hour between two trains in Bern, I searched all the newsstands for other books by Pratchett. Same on the way back from Zurich.
One month later, I was in London and bought every single of his books in hardback. I'm feared in all bookstores all over Geneva for my relentless demands of everything Pratchett in hardback ("You really want us to order it ? it's expensive, you know").
I've been converting family and friends to Pratchett, buying them the books in French (rather good translation), it's mandatory reading in my Kendo club and frequent subject of conversation during warming up exercises.
My father names his cats based on Lady Vimes' dragons (my favorite cat is called PlumePierre = Featherstone).

My favorite characters are the University Faculty and staff, as well as a number of secondary characters that give substance to the overall ambiance of the diskworld ... Nanny Ogg, of course (ever tried some of her recipes ?).

[christie malry]

"It could have been worse. I've heard what Good Omens was looking like by the time Sovereign's option mercifully ran out -- set in America, no Four Horsemen... oh god". - TP Interview

Dear crikey we've got to count ourselves lucky there then. Mind you, HHGTTG worked out OK...

[H3LL]

I'm feared in all bookstores all over Geneva for my relentless demands of everything Pratchett in hardback ("You really want us to order it ? it's expensive, you know").

Keep away from the Unseen Library editions - Seriously yummy and a terrible money-pit :D

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_318046c2f0ce011ff.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7747)

"He says gods like to see an atheist around. Gives them something to aim at".
Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

[Flo]

Keep away from the Unseen Library editions - Seriously yummy and a terrible money-pit :D

Villain ! Do you realise how many booksellers in Geneva thought they were safe until at least september ? I had planned to go shopping for potting soil tonight, not books ? Don't you feel guilty for all those little plants that'll have to wait until tomorrow night to get potted ? :p

[H3LL]

Don't you feel guilty for all those little plants that'll have to wait until tomorrow night to get potted ? :p

Nope :D :D


"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?"
Death thought about it.
"CATS," he said eventually. "CATS ARE NICE". - TP

.

[Kotatsu]

I think this is unlikely, I'm pretty certain that if he needs a new car, he can afford one without having to rush a book, I suspect they are pretty much what he intended them to be.

Which, as such, has no bearing on how I experience the books, does it? I can easily imagine that he's richer than most trolls in England put together, but that does not conflict with my feeling that the later books feel rushed and, well, very thin in content considering how thick they are.

I'm pretty certain he is a sceptic, too, or at least has a sceptical mindset. He's a very keen amateur astronomer as well, and has a wicked little building for his telescope, built by a boat builder, I believe. (He, Brian May and several others featured on a TV show about astronomy I watched a while ago

I agree. The evidence I need is in your signature. It's a good quote (the second one).

[3point14]

Which, as such, has no bearing on how I experience the books, does it? I can easily imagine that he's richer than most trolls in England put together, but that does not conflict with my feeling that the later books feel rushed and, well, very thin in content considering how thick they are.


I wasn't disputing that you felt they were rushed, indeed I couldn't dispute really if you said you felt they were awful, that's your feeling after all, just saying that as far as I'm aware, Terry has no need to rush a book for fiscal reasons, and that the book you read is likely to be the book he wanted to write. (If he did need the money, at least that might be an excuse for the rushed feeling, as it is, it just means that (to you) he's not that good at pacing.) Apologies if it came across as confrontational :)

Interestingly, large numbers of the earlier discworld books were written very quickly indeed, for a good few years there was one published every six months.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I didn't know there was a Hogfather movie....I wonder if I can get it through Netflix...?

More later, no time now...gotta shag a cigarette butt from inside my shoe.....

Doesn't Netflix require proof that you're of the human species, Nobby?

[3point14]

Doesn't Netflix require proof that you're of the human species, Nobby?

It's okay, he's got a note from the Patrician.

[malbui]

Another big Pratchett fan here... I was on holiday last week and took along the first two Tiffany Aching books that I'd been saving up for a couple of days of R&R. I'm now pretty much up to date - in paperback, at least.

Favourites? Feet of Clay, as it's a kicking detective story, and Fifth Elephant for its take on international relations. Jingo would be up there as well.

Oh yeah, and it's English all the way. I read as much as possible in the orginal, but especially stuff like Pratchett where translation is only ever going to be an approximation.

[Kotatsu]

I wasn't disputing that you felt they were rushed, indeed I couldn't dispute really if you said you felt they were awful, that's your feeling after all, just saying that as far as I'm aware, Terry has no need to rush a book for fiscal reasons, and that the book you read is likely to be the book he wanted to write. (If he did need the money, at least that might be an excuse for the rushed feeling, as it is, it just means that (to you) he's not that good at pacing.) Apologies if it came across as confrontational :)

No worries. I believe I owe you exactly the same apologies. I blame being bored at work, bad weather and also capitalism for good measure.

I think pacing is part of it, but not all. There's just too many things I don't particularly care for in the newer books. Above all towers the abomination that is the Igors. It was fun in the first book, to a limited extent. But I feel the Igor-jokes are the same ones in every book. Just variations. And I don't like this modernisation of Ankh-Morpork, and the fact that VIRTUALLY NO ONE has names that couldn't pass as real names in the real world. They are all Mr. Jones and Mrs. Henderson and so on. At most, we get a Mr. Pin, but that's not as fanciful as the names used to be.

Maybe it's just some sort of misplaced nostalgia?

Interestingly, large numbers of the earlier discworld books were written very quickly indeed, for a good few years there was one published every six months.

Then maybe my problem is that he doesn't write them fast enough?

[Orangutan]

Eek!

[3point14]

No worries. I believe I owe you exactly the same apologies. I blame being bored at work, bad weather and also capitalism for good measure.

I think pacing is part of it, but not all. There's just too many things I don't particularly care for in the newer books. Above all towers the abomination that is the Igors. It was fun in the first book, to a limited extent. But I feel the Igor-jokes are the same ones in every book. Just variations. And I don't like this modernisation of Ankh-Morpork, and the fact that VIRTUALLY NO ONE has names that couldn't pass as real names in the real world. They are all Mr. Jones and Mrs. Henderson and so on. At most, we get a Mr. Pin, but that's not as fanciful as the names used to be.

Maybe it's just some sort of misplaced nostalgia?


Apology accepted (We're so civilised!! :) )

The Discworld has become more serious and realistic over the years. In TCOM the whole of Ankh-Morpork was burnt down just so that he could get in a gag or two about it, that's not really possible now, I guess. I think the lack of silly names are part of that. FWIW, I agree a little about the Igors, and I am slightly worried that it lowers the risk quotient for the lead charachters in The Watch if they can just be stitched back up every time.


FWIW, I've got a feeling Granny may die soon. Just a hunch based on things in the Tiffany Aching books.

[eir_de_scania]

Do you live in a box? Here in Gothenburg, I can hardly put my feet down without stepping on a Pratchett fan.

Not a box, but in the deep beech woods of Göinge, which perhaps accounts as the same!:p

[Hawk one]

FWIW, I agree a little about the Igors, and I am slightly worried that it lowers the risk quotient for the lead charachters in The Watch if they can just be stitched back up every time.

Oh, you don't need to worry too much about that. Because in Night Watch, you'll notice how the Watch's Igor was in fact telling he could have revived the killed dwarf officer, but Vimes had put his foot down. So he won't just use them as an excuse for any miracles. And heck, in "Going Postal", Grout was sent to the hospital (which we indirectly and later finds out employs its own Igor), and the miracle was rather that he didn't need much healing after all.

And more importantly, Pratchett has only let two important characters survive throughout the whole book, and then dying in another one: Mort and Ysabell. Really, go take a check. If they're alive when the book ends, odds are really, really good that they'll keep on living throughout all other books they appear in. And this happened long before Igors came onto the scene.

Of course, now that you know this, you might feel that there won't be much risk to any lead characters whenever you read a new book. :D

[Yllanes]

Of course, now that you know this, you might feel that there won't be much risk to any lead characters whenever you read a new book. :D

I'm kind of hoping Carrot will die soon. The character doesn't have much more to add, I think, and it would make for an interesting story.

[Hawk one]

I'm kind of hoping Carrot will die soon. The character doesn't have much more to add, I think, and it would make for an interesting story.Actually, I agree with you on this. Carrot's interesting-ness is a bit like Rincewind, in that the consequences of his actions are much more far-reaching than expected. And I liked Thud!, but I think Pratchett's having a bit of a struggle with Carrot, which is possibly why most of the action around Carrot happened in an indirect manner (i.e. it happened in the scenes between Angua and Sally).

[Kotatsu]

Apology accepted (We're so civilised!! :) )

Hooray!

The Discworld has become more serious and realistic over the years. In TCOM the whole of Ankh-Morpork was burnt down just so that he could get in a gag or two about it, that's not really possible now, I guess. I think the lack of silly names are part of that.

But I think I liked that better. I am a great fan of Robert Rankin, who often seem to do whatever he wants just to be able to make a good joke (1). I like the unpredictability of his books. The knowledge that the main character may not survive (although if it is a recurring character, he may of course live in the next book anyway).

FWIW, I've got a feeling Granny may die soon. Just a hunch based on things in the Tiffany Aching books.

I actually think Vimes sort of has it coming. It would be very interesting to see what would happen to the Watch --- and the entire city! --- if he were to die. It's hard to think of any new honours he might receive when he's solved the next mystery and saved everyone again.

---
(1) And the old ones are the best.

[Kotatsu]

And more importantly, Pratchett has only let two important characters survive throughout the whole book, and then dying in another one: Mort and Ysabell. Really, go take a check. If they're alive when the book ends, odds are really, really good that they'll keep on living throughout all other books they appear in. And this happened long before Igors came onto the scene.

Doesn't Gaspode die in The Fifth Elephant? Or do I misremember?

Of course, he may not really count as an important character the way, say, Nanny Ogg does.

[Jekyll]

Doesn't Gaspode die in The Fifth Elephant? Or do I misremember?

No, he lands on another wolf.
IIRC, His final scene in that book is him howling for Bum's death and then wandering off.

[Hawk one]

Actually, the final scene with Gaspode is that he uses his powers of speech to hitchhike a trip with a coal wagon headed for Ankh-Morpork.

And the very last scene is with Carrot and Angua getting back to the office and putting things back to where they were in the Watch.

Also, it's Gavin's death. Bum was just the lone wolf who'd been captured by some villagers.

[Yllanes]

Gaspode reappears in the upcoming Making Money. Also, remember that just after The Fifth Elephant he is leading the Canting Crew.

[JoeTheJuggler]

FWIW, I've got a feeling Granny may die soon. Just a hunch based on things in the Tiffany Aching books.

I think she'll go evil first.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I'm kind of hoping Carrot will die soon. The character doesn't have much more to add, I think, and it would make for an interesting story.

Hmmm. . . if there's enough narrativium around, I think Carrot has to pull a sword out of a stone and become King of A-M.

I'm not sure how much the Patrician knows about Carrot. . . .

[Darat]

Everything of course

[Hawk one]

Or to paraphrase from Jingo (since I don't have that copy nearby at the moment):

"Carrot, if you were shooting those arrows in an abandonded cellar at midnight, Vetinari would have asked you 'but wasn't it awfully dark down there?' in the morning."


Edited to add: Also, Carrot has already pulled a sword out of a stone. A stone in which he pushed the sword into first, in fact. Which, as sergeant Colon noted, is definitely a feat more worthy of a real king. Re-read Men at Arms to check this.

[Jekyll]

Actually, the final scene with Gaspode is that he uses his powers of speech to hitchhike a trip with a coal wagon headed for Ankh-Morpork.

And the very last scene is with Carrot and Angua getting back to the office and putting things back to where they were in the Watch.

Also, it's Gavin's death. Bum was just the lone wolf who'd been captured by some villagers.

You're right. I suck at names.

[Hawk one]

Or I may be a bit too obsessive with details with regards to Pratchett's books... ;)

[Jekyll]

Not at all. It's all good.

[Kotatsu]

No, he lands on another wolf.
IIRC, His final scene in that book is him howling for Bum's death and then wandering off.

But he's close to death, isn't he? Or is it only Gavin who talks to Death?

The really shameful part is that it's only a few months since I reread Fifth Elephant...

[3point14]

Oh, you don't need to worry too much about that. Because in Night Watch, you'll notice how the Watch's Igor was in fact telling he could have revived the killed dwarf officer, but Vimes had put his foot down.

As far as I recall, it wasn't Vimes who put his foot down,but the officer's family who refused for religious reasons.


So he won't just use them as an excuse for any miracles. And heck, in "Going Postal", Grout was sent to the hospital (which we indirectly and later finds out employs its own Igor), and the miracle was rather that he didn't need much healing after all.

Had forgotten that scene, am now chuckling at the memory. Everyone at work thinks I'm mad.


And more importantly, Pratchett has only let two important characters survive throughout the whole book, and then dying in another one: Mort and Ysabell. Really, go take a check. If they're alive when the book ends, odds are really, really good that they'll keep on living throughout all other books they appear in. And this happened long before Igors came onto the scene.

Of course, now that you know this, you might feel that there won't be much risk to any lead characters whenever you read a new book. :D

Oh, I wouldn't be so certain about that, there are a few passages in Wintersmith (I think) where Tiffany notices how old Granny is starting to look, and I don't think Terry would resist killing off characters if he felt it was necessary.

Last Hero spoiler below, in defference to Broidski...

Just thought, if Cohen counts as an important character (And I think he does) then that's three, even if he does become a god, maybe, perhaps.

[Hawk one]

But he's close to death, isn't he? Or is it only Gavin who talks to Death?

The really shameful part is that it's only a few months since I reread Fifth Elephant...

Gaspode pees on Death's legs and talks with him. Gavin doesn't talk with death at all, including his ethereal shape. He was just being dead.

[Hawk one]

As far as I recall, it wasn't Vimes who put his foot down,but the officer's family who refused for religious reasons.Point. It still was a death that Igor said he could fix, though, and Pratchett denied him this just to get an officer back on track, whatever the reason. Whether or not this marks the trend that there's a limit to what Pratchett allows Igors to treat remains to be seen. But so far, it only seems like they've been making for a speedier recovery to what could have been treated anyway (by anyone but Ankh-Morpork doctors, that is). At least with regards to the main characters.

Had forgotten that scene, am now chuckling at the memory. Everyone at work thinks I'm mad.Whereas we know it. ;)

Oh, I wouldn't be so certain about that, there are a few passages in Wintersmith (I think) where Tiffany notices how old Granny is starting to look, and I don't think Terry would resist killing off characters if he felt it was necessary.
In 6 days, I'll hopefully be able to buy those books (plus The Last Hero) and see for myself. Then we can talk about that in more detail.

But for now, let me stress that I'm only saying odds are very, very good, and not certain. That is a small difference that nevertheless is important, right? ;)

[parrotslave]

I have to chime in and say that Terry is one of my favorites as well.

They are books you can enjoy rereading over and over.

[SusanB-M1]

Another dedicated TP fan here, so I'm typing this after reading OP. Heard him give a talk in Salisbury a few years ago - excellent.
I am so pleased to see that there is a new book due out - I have been feeling seriously deprived of a new TP book since there seems to have been a long gap since the 'Wintersmith'.

ETA: I have so much enjoyed reading through this thread. I owe my introduction to TP to a child in my class once who asked if I had read 'Truckers'. He was amazed that I did not know it, so I read it. To start with I couldn't understand where it was going but I was on a train and had nothing else to do. Half-way through I was laughing out loud! From then on, I just read everything in order.

People who don't read TP say things like, 'Oh, I don't like Science Fiction.' It is hard to explain to them what it really is.

There is one question I have never worked out: Are there layers of meaning in the name Ankh-Morpork?

Oh, and I've heard TP on radio expressing his atheist views. (99.9% certain here.)

(Off to Bournemouth now - to see/peer at(!) the Red Arrows display.)

[H3LL]

There is one question I have never worked out: Are there layers of meaning in the name Ankh-Morpork?

Well here's lots of things that it could be, maybe, parhaps, is or is not.:rolleyes:


Terry has said that the name 'Ankh-Morpork' was inspired neither by the ankh (the Egyptian cross with the closed loop on top), nor by the Australian or New Zealand species of bird (frogmouths and small brown owls, respectively) that go by the name of 'Morepork'.

Since I first wrote down the above annotation, there have been new developments, however. In The Streets of Ankh-Morpork (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-streets-of-ankh-morpork.html) and The Discworld Companion (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-discworld-companion.html) we are shown an illustration of the Ankh-Morpork coat of arms, which does feature a Morepork/owl holding an ankh. But from Terry's remarks (see next annotation) I feel it's safe to say that neither bird nor cross were explicitly on his mind when he first came up with the name Ankh-Morpork.

Finally, many readers have mentioned the resonance that Ankh-Morpork has with our world's Budapest: also a large city made up of two smaller cities (Buda and Pest) separated by a river.

- [p. 9/9 COM] "[...] two figures were watching with considerable interest."

The two barbarians, Bravd and Weasel, are parodies of Fritz Leiber's fantasy heroes Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. The Swords series of books in which they star are absolute classics, and have probably had about as much influence on the genre as Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

The Swords stories date back as far as 1939, but more than sixty years later they have lost none of their appeal. Both The Colour of Magic (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic.html) and The Light Fantastic (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-light-fantastic.html) are, in large part, affectionate parodies of the Leiberian universe, although I hasten to add that, in sharp contrast to many later writers in the field, Leiber himself already had a great sense of humour. Fafhrd and the Mouser are not to be taken altogether serious in his original version, either.

Given all this, I can perhaps be forgiven for thinking that Terry intended Ankh-Morpork to be a direct parody of the great city of Lankhmar in which many of the Swords adventures take place. However, Terry explicitly denied this when I suggested it on alt.fan.pratchett:

"Bravd and the Weasel were indeed takeoffs of Leiber characters -- there was a lot of that sort of thing in The Colour of Magic (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic.html). But I didn't -- at least consciously, I suppose I must say -- create Ankh-Morpork as a takeoff of Lankhmar."

source (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic.html)


Sham Harga had run a succesful eatery for many years by always smiling, never extending credit, and realizing that most of his customers wanted meals properly balanced between the four food groups: sugar, starch, grease, and burnt crunchy bits.
TP - Men at Arms

.

[Corpse Cruncher]

I enjoyed the mini-series, shown last christmas time on sky. Yet I have not got around to reading the books.

[Rasmus]

Oh, and I've heard TP on radio expressing his atheist views. (99.9% certain here.)

You have a slight doubt that it was him, or a slight doubt that he's an atheist?

The gods of the Disc have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that's where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won't do if they don't know about it. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight.

[christie malry]

Ah, but the Creator is a character - with a fondness for egg-and-cress sandwiches if memory serves.

[Darat]

You have a slight doubt that it was him, or a slight doubt that he's an atheist?

The gods of the Disc have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that's where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won't do if they don't know about it. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight.


Or eat (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6949586.stm) them.

[richardm]

Interestingly, large numbers of the earlier discworld books were written very quickly indeed, for a good few years there was one published every six months.

And funnily enough it was those books that put me off being an avid reader. After I read Equal Rites - which I loved - I gathered every book I could as they appeared, and I think it scunnered me. I do still read the occasional book and enjoy it, but I didn't feel that his very busy period produced invariably great work. Having said that, some of his books are amongst my very favourites, and I do enjoy reading 'em. Favourite: Good Omens, I think. Clever, funny stuff. Reaper Man stands out for me. I also enjoyed Truckers/Diggers/Wings. But Moving Pictures et al left me cold.

Oh, and I've heard TP on radio expressing his atheist views. (99.9% certain here.)

Mostly (http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Terry_Pratchett), it seems.

[3point14]

And funnily enough it was those books that put me off being an avid reader. After I read Equal Rites - which I loved - I gathered every book I could as they appeared, and I think it scunnered me. I do still read the occasional book and enjoy it, but I didn't feel that his very busy period produced invariably great work. Having said that, some of his books are amongst my very favourites, and I do enjoy reading 'em. Favourite: Good Omens, I think. Clever, funny stuff. Reaper Man stands out for me. I also enjoyed Truckers/Diggers/Wings. But Moving Pictures et al left me cold.



Mostly (http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Terry_Pratchett), it seems.


I've never read beyond Truckers, must get around to it one day.

The central concept of 'Strata' is superb, if you haven't read it, do. It'll only take you a day or so.

[SusanB-M1]

Well here's lots of things that it could be, maybe, parhaps, is or is not.:rolleyes:
Thank you for the details. Great A'Tuin is an interesting one too. I used to try making anagrams from it and looked for extra meanings ... but gave up years ago.

You have a slight doubt that it was him, or a slight doubt that he's an atheist?
Neither - I just did not want to mis-quote him. Thank you for the item. Actually, now I think of it, he is a distinguished supporter of the BHA and I've just checked.

Mostly (http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Terry_Pratchett), it seems.
Thank you for link.

I have of course ordered the 'Making Money'. Reading them on the CCTV makes me read them slowly, which is a good thing as I enjoy them more.

[Lothian]

I have read all the (paperback) discworld books & some of the kids ones.
Also read a serious book; Strata (?) but didn’t like it.

[bjornart]

Well, I read through this thread, didn't I? And half my speech when I was best-man was from Nanny Ogg's Cookbook.

And I've read these. (http://www.tuftin.net/~bjornar/Bjornar/forfi-p.html#Pratchett)

[Meri]

Well, I'm a little late arriving at this thread (that's what I get for not checking in at the forum for the past few days), but I just wanted to say that I'm a huge Discworld fan. Not only are they great, funny, entertaining books, but I'm always amazed by how real and complex the Discworld feels. My favorite characters are Moist von Lipwig (New Moist book next month!), Havelock Vetinari, Angua, and Mightily Oats. Carpe Jungulum(sp?) was my favorite witches book because of Oats. Going Postal is my favorite book overall, and other favorites are Night Watch, Small Gods, and Interesting Times.

In fact, I'm re-reading Going Postal right now, for what has to be the fifth or sixth time, at least.

[Hawk one]

Meri, if you're female, I'd like to propose to you for such a marvellous display of good Pratchett taste. :D

Edited to add: Actually, I'm also rereading Going Postal for the 5th or 6th time...

[Meri]

Meri, if you're female, I'd like to propose to you for such a marvellous display of good Pratchett taste. :D

Edited to add: Actually, I'm also rereading Going Postal for the 5th or 6th time...

As a matter of fact, I am female (You'd think the pink cartoon cat avatar would give it away, but apparently not :D )

Also, now that I've taken the time to read through the thread, I have a few more things to add:

The first Discworld book I read was Reaper Man, followed by Witches Abroad. I had heard about Discworlds books on the Internet and bought those two at random. This was right before Night Watch came out (the books had a preview in the back, is how I remember), and it took me about a year to catch up and have every book read (except for Science of Discworld, which took longer because I had trouble finding them in the US).

I know a lot of people don't like the newer books as much, but personally I think that, as a whole, the books have been getting better the longer Pratchett writes them. I just wish Oats would show up again.

And finally, someone said they thought Carrot might die soon. I wouldn't mind at all, as for some reason I have never liked Carrot. There might even be a hint of what could happen to Carrot in one of the books. I'm pretty sure it's in The Fifth Elephant towards the end (All of my books except Going Postal are packed right now, so I can't check this). Vimes, who as we all know hates kings, is looking at Carrot and thinking about how powerful his charisma is and the quote is something like "he wondered, for the first time consciously, if he might one day have to stand in it's way".

[Pipirr]

Thanks to whoever it was that mentioned the Hogfather TV adaptation. Just watched it, very nice :D

Excellent Susan. Like a sophisticated, intelligent and skeptical Kiera Knightly. With a poker!

[Hawk one]

As a matter of fact, I am female (You'd think the pink cartoon cat avatar would give it away, but apparently not :D )

Experience has taught me not to judge a book by its cover... ;)

And I don't like this modernisation of Ankh-Morpork, and the fact that VIRTUALLY NO ONE has names that couldn't pass as real names in the real world. They are all Mr. Jones and Mrs. Henderson and so on. At most, we get a Mr. Pin, but that's not as fanciful as the names used to be.

Well, I was wondering a bit about this one, and as I started re-reading Going Postal, I think that this claim is pretty much wrong. Here, let's go through a list of the new characters in that book, big and small (restricted to human characters living in the modern era, mostly appearing in the order they are presented throughout the book.):

Moist von Lipwig (Also known as Albert Spangler, Edwin Streep, Mundo Smith, Mr. Robinson)
Mr. Wilkinson
Daniel "one drop" Trooper
Tolliver Groat
Stanley
Adora Belle Dearheart
John Dearheart
Chief Postal Inspector Rumbelow
Antimony Parker
Agnathea
Dave (pin shop owner)
J. Lanugo Owlsbury
Mrs. Goodbody
Mad Al Carlton, Sane Alex Winton, and Undecided Adrian Emery
Mr. Greenyham
Mr. Nutmeg
Crispin Horsefry
Mr. Stowley
Reacher Gilt (also known as Randolph Stippler)
Clerk Brian
Mr. Whobblebury
Mr. Mutable
Mr. Ignavia
Hugo
Sadie
Frederick
Princess/Alice
Roger
Granddad
Sir Davie Thrills (of the manor Mixed Blessings)
C. Clarke and Mrs. Clarke
George Aggy
Postman Thompson
Postman Bates
Jimmy Tropes
Postmaster Cowerby
Teemer and Spools
Professor Ladislav Pelc
F.G. Smallfinger
Professor Goitre
Mayor Joe Camels
Miss Maccalariat
Jim "Still Standing" Upwright
Harold "the Hog" Boots
Little Jim "Leadpipe" Upwright
Harry "Slugger" Upwright
Bob
Oyster Dave
Gravy
Mucky Mick
Crispo
Robert Dearheart
Humphrey the harmonica player
Deacon Jones
Mrs. Edith Leakall
Miss Extremelia Mume
George Pony
Devious "Dragonbreath" Collabone, student, doctor, and professor
Mrs. Glowbury
Nosher Harry
Skullbreaker Tash
Grievous Bodily Harmsworth
Joe "No Nose" Tozer
Mr. Cheeseborough? (I think I've seen the name before, but I'm not entirely sure where...)
Big Steve-Oh


I think that should cover most of the new names in Going Postal. And as far as I can tell, there's a pretty neat mix of real names, unreal names, and names that might be real, but may be not, and names that are real, but still quite colourful, and not the least names you'd certainly hate to learn find out were real, if only out of pity for the poor child stuck with it (such as Whobblebury). If you can't find anything fanciful here, I suggest you haven't really looked.

[Kotatsu]

And finally, someone said they thought Carrot might die soon. I wouldn't mind at all, as for some reason I have never liked Carrot. There might even be a hint of what could happen to Carrot in one of the books. I'm pretty sure it's in The Fifth Elephant towards the end (All of my books except Going Postal are packed right now, so I can't check this). Vimes, who as we all know hates kings, is looking at Carrot and thinking about how powerful his charisma is and the quote is something like "he wondered, for the first time consciously, if he might one day have to stand in it's way".

Having Vimes fighting Carrot to prevent him being crowned king of Ankh-Morpork or something would be a very interesting development. The best outcome, to me, would be if Vimes died in that struggle (somehow; perhaps killed by an outraged mob wanting a king?) whereupon Carrot would somehow be denied the throne anyway (I am thinking Vetinari would have something to do with this), and things return to normal, but a street or a square or something is named after Vimes.

I really think Vimes has reached a place where he should just be allowed to end and see what happens with the Watch and everything without him.

I think that should cover most of the new names in Going Postal. And as far as I can tell, there's a pretty neat mix of real names, unreal names, and names that might be real, but may be not, and names that are real, but still quite colourful, and not the least names you'd certainly hate to learn find out were real, if only out of pity for the poor child stuck with it (such as Whobblebury). If you can't find anything fanciful here, I suggest you haven't really looked.

Clobber me with facts, will you? Well, I will admit that I haven't actually kept count on who is called what, but that my statement was more of a generalisation based on a general impression that these days, most people on the Discworld --- or at least in Ankh-Morpork --- seem to have both a first name and a surname, and that a lot of those are names like Dave and Anne and so on. It seems to me that the percentage of genuine fantasy names is different now from what it was before.

But mainly I jut whine because I just haven't fallen for any of the newer books (except Night Watch which was brilliant).

[Hawk one]

Clobber me with facts, will you?

What, you want me to clobber you with a club instead? :D

[Kotatsu]

What, you want me to clobber you with a club instead? :D


I was suddenly uncertain (English isn't my first language) if I had used the correct word and checked "clobber" in the built-in dictionary of my MacBook, and it seems that one meaning is:

clobber 2 |ˌklɒbə| verb [ trans. ] add enameled decoration to (porcelain).

I had no idea!


To answer your question:
I would prefer to have a clobber-free week this week, if it's all the same to you. Get back to me next week and I may have some need for clobbering. Though I do believe that even next week, I would prefer clobbering with facts.

[Hawk one]

I was suddenly uncertain (English isn't my first language) if I had used the correct word and checked "clobber" in the built-in dictionary of my MacBook, and it seems that one meaning is:

clobber 2 |ˌklɒbə| verb [ trans. ] add enameled decoration to (porcelain).

I had no idea!


To answer your question:
I would prefer to have a clobber-free week this week, if it's all the same to you. Get back to me next week and I may have some need for clobbering. Though I do believe that even next week, I would prefer clobbering with facts.
Well, that's certainly interesting. I'll see if I can clobber some of your porcelain next week, then.

Seriously, though, I'll try not to act like someone obsessed with all the facts about Pratchett. At least not as much as this time. ;)

[Meri]

Having Vimes fighting Carrot to prevent him being crowned king of Ankh-Morpork or something would be a very interesting development. The best outcome, to me, would be if Vimes died in that struggle (somehow; perhaps killed by an outraged mob wanting a king?) whereupon Carrot would somehow be denied the throne anyway (I am thinking Vetinari would have something to do with this), and things return to normal, but a street or a square or something is named after Vimes.

I really think Vimes has reached a place where he should just be allowed to end and see what happens with the Watch and everything without him.

No, no, no, Carrot has to die in our hypothetical Carrot/Vimes battle. The reasons are many:

1. I like Vimes better than I like Carrot. If Vimes dies, Carrot becomes Commander, and I don't want that much Carrot in my Discworld books.

2. If Vimes dies, there will be no more Vimes/Vetinari scenes, which are always wonderful.

3. It would be interesting to see what Angua does if Carrot dies, since he's the main reason she stays in Ankh-Morpork.

4. And finally, I really doubt Vetinari would allow Carrot to live if he became powerful enough to threaten Vetinari. If Carrot actually wanted to be king, odds are good that Vetinari would decide he was no longer useful enough to keep around.

[NobbyNobbs]

Actually, I think my favorite character is one you never meet....B.S. Johnson. I can't wait to see what new and idiotically revolutionary inventions he's going to come up with!

[Hawk one]

B.S. Johnson is certainly one of the better running gags. I love his "new Pie". :D

So Meri, when are we going to get married? :P

[Meri]

Actually, I think my favorite character is one you never meet....B.S. Johnson. I can't wait to see what new and idiotically revolutionary inventions he's going to come up with!

I like seeing B.S Johnson's inventions in the books, but I always wondering how long ago he lived. Sybil's grandfather shot him, he was in Uberwald building organs for vampires who knows how ago, he designed the gardens of the palace as well as a few things in the University and it looks like he was in the post office no more than 50 years or so ago. As you can see, I've thought about this a bit too much.


So Meri, when are we going to get married? :P

Well, in honor of this thread, I say we went until Vimes has defeated Carrot. :D

[Kotatsu]

Well, that's certainly interesting. I'll see if I can clobber some of your porcelain next week, then.

Sorry, I believe I'm washing my hair next week. I'll get back to you when I have some free time in which to watch my porcelain get clobbered.

Seriously, though, I'll try not to act like someone obsessed with all the facts about Pratchett. At least not as much as this time. ;)

It's good you did, though. Maybe it'll make me re-evaluate the newer books. Apart from Night Watch, I haven't actually reread many of the books after Carpe Jugulum, and maybe I will now. Perhaps I'll even like one or two.

No, no, no, Carrot has to die in our hypothetical Carrot/Vimes battle. The reasons are many:

1. I like Vimes better than I like Carrot. If Vimes dies, Carrot becomes Commander, and I don't want that much Carrot in my Discworld books.

2. If Vimes dies, there will be no more Vimes/Vetinari scenes, which are always wonderful.

3. It would be interesting to see what Angua does if Carrot dies, since he's the main reason she stays in Ankh-Morpork.

4. And finally, I really doubt Vetinari would allow Carrot to live if he became powerful enough to threaten Vetinari. If Carrot actually wanted to be king, odds are good that Vetinari would decide he was no longer useful enough to keep around.

I believe I could go with them both dying, or at least Vimes dying and Carrot disappearing somehow (which could give rise to all manners of CT goodness, if Pratchett plays his cards well...). As I said before, there's nothing much more to do with Vimes. He can't rise much higher in society, and I believe he's sort of run his course.

While I agree that it would be very interesting to see what happens to, e.g., Angua with Carrot gone --- indeed, what would happen to the whole Watch --- I contend that an equally interesting continuation of the Watch series would be what would happen with Vimes gone, too. I feel that Vimes has a greater impact on the city in later books, while Carrot has been sinking into the background a bit (at least compared to how prominent he was both in the Watch and in the city in earlier books).

Vimes' disappearance, I believe, would, while depriving us from his discussions with Vetinari (which I admit are often fun), give a whole new political situation for many groups in Ankh-Morpork, in ways that the disappearance of Carrot would not. Would someone else be able to fill Vimes' shoes as Commander, or would the Watch become dominated by, say, the Guilds or something?

However, I will agree that I would dislike Carrot as Commander. Maybe a new character? This would, however, more or less require that both Carrot and Vimes die.

[Kotatsu]

I like seeing B.S Johnson's inventions in the books, but I always wondering how long ago he lived. Sybil's grandfather shot him, he was in Uberwald building organs for vampires who knows how ago, he designed the gardens of the palace as well as a few things in the University and it looks like he was in the post office no more than 50 years or so ago. As you can see, I've thought about this a bit too much.

I don't remember where, but isn't there a timeline project somewhere? Maybe this could clear it up or, failing that, at least give you some perspective on exactly how obsessed people can get with a series of books.

But your thinking is interesting. I've never thought about that before.

EDIT:
Here it is:
http://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline-intro.html
Using the "Find on this page" function, it seems B. S. Johnson isn't mentioned, though.

[Yllanes]

As I said before, there's nothing much more to do with Vimes. He can't rise much higher in society, and I believe he's sort of run his course.

I disagree. Vetinari can't rise much higher either and I haven't seen anyone who doesn't find him interesting. I concede that it seems difficult to think of new stories with him as the protagonist, but that's the job of the author. In any case, Vimes now works perfectly as a background character.

The main thing I would like to see is for Ankh Morpork to get to the technological point of the Industrial Revolution (i.e. steam engine). In particular, I want to see a railroad. Pratchett has said that he believes a railroad in a fantasy world is possible, but difficult, because it has so many repercussions. But if anyone can pull it off, he can. Spoiler for Thud!:

Of course, by now Ankh Morpork probably has an underground system, but that's not the same thing (for one, it's magical).

[JQH]

Favourite characters:

Granny Weatherwax
Sam Vimes
Lord Vetinari

A confrontation between Vimes and Carrot would be interesting but IIRC Carrot has actually destroyed evidence limking him to the old royal family. Why would he change?

I like the way Vimes' and Vetinari's cynicism keeps the city going. Both deeply distrust people but neither see the need for detailed interference in peoples' lives. (Vimes through distrust of government, Vetinari because he prefers to keep stum about what he's got on you so that he can make use of it later).

Certainly Vimes' departure would precipitate some kind of power struggle in the city. Definitely a novel in there.

[Kotatsu]

I disagree. Vetinari can't rise much higher either and I haven't seen anyone who doesn't find him interesting. I concede that it seems difficult to think of new stories with him as the protagonist, but that's the job of the author. In any case, Vimes now works perfectly as a background character.

Vetinari, however, has remained more or less static since the first book he appeared in, status-wise, while Vimes has risen like a comet through Ankh-Morpork society. The only step left for Vimes to take is to become Patrician, and I find that highly unlikely.

However, my point is not that Vimes is uninteresting. Instead, I believe that Vimes is reaching a state of importance and influence in Ankh-Morpork which makes me more interested in finding out how the Watch and the whole city would be like without him. Who would try to take his place? Would anyone succeed? Many of the influential and powerful people in Ankh-Morpork seem to dislike him --- how would they react? Would the guilds try to put some sort of political pressure on the Watch to appoint a less efficient Commander? Would Vetinari's position as Patrician be as comparatively secure as I get the impression it is in the later books?

Maybe Vimes doesn't have to die, but just disappear for a while? Get amnesia and start over again and then realise who he is and save the day at the end of the book or something? I could go for some expansion of the parallel history as retold by the Disorganiser in Jingo where large parts of the Watch is killed (this part, for some reason, is one of my all-tie favourites, and I've reread that part many more times than I have read the rest of Jingo). Just as an alternative storyline which is not part of the main one.

As an aside, I'd also like to see Colon and Nobby become more central than they have been lately. And as i love the Faculty, I'd like to see them return in force as well...

[christie malry]

Did someone say BS Johnson? ;)











I'll get me coat.

[H3LL]

I've always thought of Carrot as the 'this is how kings should be' character.

Total belief in the people and devotion to his 'kingdom', looking after their best interests where he can and protecting the under-dog.

He does all the things the 'idea' of a monarchy should do, but never does.

As for becoming a king with all the trappings, I think this is highly unlikely. I seem to remember that evidence of his possible regal ancestry was carefully destroyed by his own hands. (Can't remember which book. Guards! Guards! ???).

"...I can recognize handwriting," said the imp proudly. "I'm quite advanced."
Vimes pulled out his notebook and held it up. "Like this?" he said.
The imp squinted for a moment. "Yep," it said. "That's handwriting, sure enough. Curly bits, spiky bits, all joined together. Yep. Handwriting. I'd recognize it anywhere."
"Aren't you supposed to tell me what it says?"
The imp looked wary. "Says?" it said. "It's supposed to make noises?"
TP - Feet of Clay

[brodski]

I seem to remember that evidence of his possible regal ancestry was carefully destroyed by his own hands. (Can't remember which book. Guards! Guards! ???).


Men at arms, and he didn't destroy it, he burried it with the Gone and Cuddy IIRC, so its all there in one place...

[H3LL]

Just finished a re-read of Feet of Clay and loved it. I hadn't realised how long it had been since I read it.

The book mysteriously found its way to the top of my reading pile...I blame the Librarian....

Dorfl is my kind of atheist. Still managed to hold onto his scepticism after a direct lightning strike from one of the gods. :D

[The pamphlet] was very patriotic. That is, it talked about killing foreigners.
Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment

.

[H3LL]

Men at arms, and he didn't destroy it, he burried it with the Gone and Cuddy IIRC, so its all there in one place...

Thanks for that...I'll trust you to be right as it sounds so.

Memory is an unreliable thing...Mine more so....

Ooooh! Pencils!

...Sorry? You were saying...?

Tourist, Rincewind decided, meant "idiot".
Terry Pratchett, The Colour of Magic

.

[H3LL]

Some comments from any Australians out there with regard to cultural references. I fall into the 'just funny' camp without understanding the deeper reference.

In particular the imprisoning of politicians and The Man From Snowy River (http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/P/PatersonAB_Banjo/verse/manfromsnowyriver/snowyriver.html).

Thanks.



"The references you missed you didn't notice. Or, you thought that was just funny. For instance, there is a whole series where Rincewind is riding around on a little horse that is so sure-footed that it can run up slightly on the roofs of caves. There's a whole sequence there that is based on the Australian poem 'The Man From Snowy River.' I don't know if there is an American poem that has quite the same place in the nation's heart. That's one that all Australians will know and if you don't then it's all just Rincewind running around, having fun. And there are other things, like the XXXX ministers are put into prison as soon as they are elected and Rincewind asks why and they say it saves time. "Australian politicians are notorious for getting put in prison. But the point is it probably is still funny even if you don't know some of the background."
Source (http://www.sfsite.com/04b/tp79.htm)


"I know what I put in; what you get out is between you and your god. You might get out more than I put in." TP - Interview 2000

.

[Meri]

Vetinari, however, has remained more or less static since the first book he appeared in, status-wise, while Vimes has risen like a comet through Ankh-Morpork society. The only step left for Vimes to take is to become Patrician, and I find that highly unlikely.

However, my point is not that Vimes is uninteresting. Instead, I believe that Vimes is reaching a state of importance and influence in Ankh-Morpork which makes me more interested in finding out how the Watch and the whole city would be like without him. Who would try to take his place? Would anyone succeed? Many of the influential and powerful people in Ankh-Morpork seem to dislike him --- how would they react? Would the guilds try to put some sort of political pressure on the Watch to appoint a less efficient Commander? Would Vetinari's position as Patrician be as comparatively secure as I get the impression it is in the later books?

I see what you mean, and I think the main reason I don't want that to happen is because I've gotten attached to Vimes, and so don't want anything to happen to him. I think, though that his position in the books is shifting, precisely because he can't really rise any futher. First, in Monstrous Regiment, Vimes took a very Vetinari-like role, as the person who was guiding events and making sure the right things happened. And second, in Thud, there was a major (to me) change from the formula of all the other Watch books: There was no scene at the end where Vetinari rewards Vimes for his service. Even Night Watch had had that scene. Not sure what it means, but it could be a sign of change.

I've always thought of Carrot as the 'this is how kings should be' character.

Total belief in the people and devotion to his 'kingdom', looking after their best interests where he can and protecting the under-dog.

He does all the things the 'idea' of a monarchy should do, but never does.

As for becoming a king with all the trappings, I think this is highly unlikely. I seem to remember that evidence of his possible regal ancestry was carefully destroyed by his own hands. (Can't remember which book. Guards! Guards! ???).


But, Carrot always does what he thinks is best for Ankh-Morpork. At that moment, he didn't think his being king was the right thing. I wonder if he could be convinced otherwise?

Also, does anyone else notice that we never see things from Carrot's point of view? It's always the point of view of people watching Carrot. So we really have no idea what he's thinking, just what others think of him.

[rwguinn]

Thanks to whoever it was that mentioned the Hogfather TV adaptation. Just watched it, very nice :D

Excellent Susan. Like a sophisticated, intelligent and skeptical Kiera Knightly. With a poker!
IS there any way one of us on this side of that pesky ocean can get a look at this series?

[SusanB-M1]

There's an anagram thread on another message board forum and the one for Terry Pratchett is: Three Tart Crypt. I think that's really clever. I thought about it all day, but there were too many Ts and Rs for me!

[JoeTheJuggler]

I've always thought of Carrot as the 'this is how kings should be' character.

Total belief in the people and devotion to his 'kingdom', looking after their best interests where he can and protecting the under-dog.

He does all the things the 'idea' of a monarchy should do, but never does.

As for becoming a king with all the trappings, I think this is highly unlikely. I seem to remember that evidence of his possible regal ancestry was carefully destroyed by his own hands. (Can't remember which book. Guards! Guards! ???).

Yes, but I do think he has some sort of royal destiny. I don't know what that really means, but I just see him as slated for something bigger than City Watch.

How about this: as the Patrician grows older, he realizes that he's made himself indispensible for the functioning of the city and has to make arrangements for after he's gone?

=====
Anyone else think Granny Weatherwax will go evil? I think she will, and then Tiffany will have to best her. Perhaps at the last minute Granny W will return to her senses and caution Tiffany to be careful. . . .

[H3LL]

Quite and extensive interview for your perusal, can't find the rest:

Mark Lawson Interviews Terry Pratchett Part 1
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Mark Lawson Interviews Terry Pratchett Part 2
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Mark Lawson Interviews Terry Pratchett Part 3
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An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on. Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
.

[Yllanes]

Anyone else think Granny Weatherwax will go evil? I think she will, and then Tiffany will have to best her. Perhaps at the last minute Granny W will return to her senses and caution Tiffany to be careful. . . .

Maybe. I would hate that, because I dislike the character of Tiffany.

[Pipirr]

IS there any way one of us on this side of that pesky ocean can get a look at this series?


HMV UK has the DVD* for sale (linky (http://www.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=12;5;71;-1&sku=612285)), but you could always employ more... magical means. ;)







*Which may not be playable in a Texan DVD player, unless you have a region-free device.

[bjornart]

You know what I think? I think Carrot won't die, Granny won't die, Vimes won't die.

[SusanB-M1]

H3LL

Thank you for posting the three you tube videos. I have just watched them all - very interesting.

[Pipirr]

"The gloomy and purposeless trousers of Uncle Vanya."

They only get a passing mention in The Fifth Elephant, but it sounds like there must be a backstory. Anyone know anything?

[Elizabeth I]

Unfortunately, it seems most adults here find it fashionable to read children's literature---something about a school for wizards. You know, 5th grade reading level. . . .

...and some of us read - and love - both.

Small Gods is the best DW novel, definitely. Good Omens the best of all. Started getting bored around Maskerade, and haven't read anything since The Truth - I'm reading Science of Discworld at the moment though - I like the cover with its allusion (rip-off) of Joseph Wright's The Bell Jar.

I was rummaging through the bookcase for something to read a week or so ago and ran across Small Gods. I had skipped over it numerous times, because it was a Terry Pratchett, so of course I had read it. For some reason I looked at the blurb on the back cover, and none of it sounded familiar. So thought I would start reading it, and still none of it sounded familiar. So I finished it. Outstanding book, though sadder and more serious than most of his.

My favorite is Lords and Ladies. I love what seems to be Pratchett's ongoing theme that you really should listen to people who tell you that when something seems too good to be true, it probably really is.

Going Postal was also great, although you probably need to be acquainted with the great United States Postal Service to truly appreciate it.

My son and I tease the dogs with, "Wanna bikkit now!" and my husband rolls his eyes and thinks we are talking baby talk. Which we are, but not the way he means it.

I thought the battle between Vimes and his PDA in Thud! was a riot.

I love all the characters too much to have a favorite, but always laugh when Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler turns up.

I also think the Luggage should be a regular character in every book, with or without Rincewind.

Also love Good Omens. I am in awe of someone (two someones?) who can write such a strongly allegorical book without its being preachy in the slightest.

[Yllanes]

"The gloomy and purposeless trousers of Uncle Vanya."

They only get a passing mention in The Fifth Elephant, but it sounds like there must be a backstory. Anyone know anything?

It's a reference to Chekhov's plays. For questions like this one, you can always look through the Annotated Pratchett File (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/). It's a great resource for any Pratchett fan. For one reason or another (you haven't read a particular book, you are not British, etc.) there are always little gems that escape ones attention and this document has them all.

For example, the comment on this sentence:

Uncle Vanya is the other great Chekhov play. "Gloomy and purposeless" sums up much Chekhovian drama quite accurately. The Russian word is "toska" -- a sort of weary, faded ennui.

Uncle Vanya's trousers, interestingly enough, are not actually featured in either of Chekhov's plays. As Terry pointed out on afp: "Well, yes. Vimes got them."

As the APF rightly comments, the whole passage is a parody of the play Three Sisters. If you know that book you will enjoy that scene much more.

[Pipirr]

It's a reference to Chekhov's plays. For questions like this one, you can always look through the Annotated Pratchett File (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/). It's a great resource for any Pratchett fan.


Thanks - I am greatly enlightened! And now have a new and diverting waste of time with the APF :D

[Spektator]

It hasn't showed up yet, but the Atlanta Radio Theatre Company has said that in the next week or so its adaptation of Guards! Guards! will show up on its podcast site, http://artcpodcast.org/.

[kiwimac]

You might well be interested to know that the Morpork and Ankh first turn up in "Feet of Clay" as part of the Vimes(original) coat of arms.

[Gaspode]

Making Money is out next week!

Does anyone know if Gaspode is definitely in the new book? Haven't seem him for a while. He's one of my favourite characters - as if you hadn't already guessed!

[Yllanes]

Well, there is a dog (as you can see in the cover). He is called Mr. Fusspot and is the chairman of the bank.

[Hawk one]

Well, I have now read the first two Tiffany books, as well as "The Last Hero".

And they are both good, but in a way, I sort of feel that in a way, "The Last Hero" was more of a "for younger readers" book.

Now, mind you, this isn't about the content, but about the style. The books about Tiffany are simply very, very much like the normal witch books. And Pratchett, while a very, very good writer, makes out Tiffany more mature than I suspect of a real 9-year old. But that's something pretty much any writer has a problem with, because frankly, our brains are working so differently when we've finally grown up, we can't really see it through the eyes of a kid anymore. Our memories of what we did back then - well, at least my memories - feel more and more skewed and "adjusted" to that I sort of insert what I thought about the situation (though the actions remain the same).

And the thing about "The Last Hero" was that it felt like it jumped from one place to the other, all the time. It was a good story, but a bit more fragmented. And while the illustrations were marvellous, they also helped breaking up the flow of story, thus making it appear a bit more like a book for younger readers...

But rereading it is pretty nice. That's when you're expecting all the illustrations, and can focus more on the story itself. Which is a typical Pratchett story.

[Gaspode]

Well, there is a dog (as you can see in the cover). He is called Mr. Fusspot and is the chairman of the bank.

Didn't you say he was in it earlier in the thread? Or was it a case of mistaken identity?

Oh well, we'll find out next week anyway.

[Yllanes]

Didn't you say he was in it earlier in the thread? Or was it a case of mistaken identity?

Oh well, we'll find out next week anyway.

I probably did. I misremembered a comment by someone who had read a proof copy.

I have not read the book, the new information comes from a review at Discworld Monthly (http://www.discworldmonthly.co.uk/dwm0124.php#S_5). The important bit for me is that there is a lot of Vetinari and that Moist comes back with a new challenge.


And they are both good, but in a way, I sort of feel that in a way, "The Last Hero" was more of a "for younger readers" book.
[...]
And the thing about "The Last Hero" was that it felt like it jumped from one place to the other, all the time. It was a good story, but a bit more fragmented. And while the illustrations were marvellous, they also helped breaking up the flow of story, thus making it appear a bit more like a book for younger readers...

But rereading it is pretty nice. That's when you're expecting all the illustrations, and can focus more on the story itself. Which is a typical Pratchett story.

Really? I didn't get that impression. If anything, I noticed the illustrations more the second time I read it. Of course TLH doesn't have as complex a story as the mainstream books and I wouldn't like all of them to be like it, but it is a nice change. If we see it as a collection of scenes it is much better than The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic, even without illustrations. Speaking of illustrations, have you read The Art of Discworld? There are some very nice insights about the characters by Pratchett in that book.

I'm not convinced by the Tiffany books, probably becasue I don't find her interesting enough. Maybe they'll grow on me after a reread.

[eir_de_scania]

And while waiting I'm enjoying the Discworld almanac (even if some of the artists have taken, let's call it artistic license) and the Discworld Yearbook. :D

[Hawk one]

Really? I didn't get that impression. If anything, I noticed the illustrations more the second time I read it. Of course TLH doesn't have as complex a story as the mainstream books and I wouldn't like all of them to be like it, but it is a nice change. If we see it as a collection of scenes it is much better than The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic, even without illustrations. Speaking of illustrations, have you read The Art of Discworld? There are some very nice insights about the characters by Pratchett in that book.

Yeah, at least the cut-up scenes in TLH add up to a whole, eventually. And I think I noticed the illustrations differently the second time, not less. Hard to explain...

Nope, haven't read that one.

[Hawk one]

Oh, and I finally realised why the Tiffany series seems to be more grown-up than the other books, but eventually is about making it for younger readers.

It's about death.

Not Death, of course, but just death. It's treated very, very differently from your average Discworld book. Especially in "Wee Free Men", where the most important character (apart from Tiffany) is Granny Achings, who passed away two years before the story started. Rereading those passages, I realised that this book touches upon death in a much more serious way. In your average Discworld book, death isn't really all that worrisome (at least not for us readers). To paraphrase from several of them, you're over the worst, so might as well get on with your life. But in "The Wee Free Men", that Granny is gone is treated as something final (with a possible exception near the end, which is ambigiously written - deliberately so, I bet - in that it might all be in Tiffany's head). Especially since it's someone who the main character loved so much who had passed away.

And that is, in the end, something that makes it more suitable for younger readers. After all, we get plenty of opportunities to laugh at death (not to mention Death) in the other Discworld books (and most other current entertainment, for that matter). But before that time comes, maybe it's good to read about something many children tend to go through, and will relate to.

[H3LL]

I ordered the two new books on a discount from amazon and avoided the postage.

Will have to wait untill October to get them though. :(

Anyone posting visible spoilers on the new books will join the mimes.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.
Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites

.

[MetalSeagull]

I just finished Making Money today. It was quite good. It had large doses of Vetinari, which is always a plus for me.

You can read the first chapter here:
http://www.harpercollins.com/features/pratchettbooks/excerpt.aspx?isbn=9780061161643

[Hawk one]

This isn't really spoiling anything, but putting in the tags nonetheless (Aren't I nice, H3ll?):

"Making Money" was mostly good, but I felt the ending was rather... confusing. Not just that things were resolved differently than what we'd expect, especially from Moist von Lipvig's part, but all the small threads that had been made throughout the book sort of culminated in a big mess... It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.

But overall, it wasn't a bad book as such. Just extra confusing, and with a bit too many distractions from the main plot. I'll see in a few days how it holds up rereading.

[Gaspode]

This isn't really spoiling anything, but putting in the tags nonetheless (Aren't I nice, H3ll?):

"Making Money" was mostly good, but I felt the ending was rather... confusing. Not just that things were resolved differently than what we'd expect, especially from Moist von Lipvig's part, but all the small threads that had been made throughout the book sort of culminated in a big mess... It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.

But overall, it wasn't a bad book as such. Just extra confusing, and with a bit too many distractions from the main plot. I'll see in a few days how it holds up rereading.


I haven't read Making Money yet but I've found that to be a theme in most of the Discworld books, in particular those involving Vimes and the City Watch. Lots of story threads with seemingly isolated events which all come together at the end. I find it frustrating because I can't remember every single one of these events. And Pratchett seems to have difficulty ending a book - they usually do end up in a mess.

It does detract from my enjoyment of the books. But only a little. :)

[Hawk one]

I haven't read Making Money yet but I've found that to be a theme in most of the Discworld books, in particular those involving Vimes and the City Watch. Lots of story threads with seemingly isolated events which all come together at the end. I find it frustrating because I can't remember every single one of these events. And Pratchett seems to have difficulty ending a book - they usually do end up in a mess.

It does detract from my enjoyment of the books. But only a little. :)

Well, I think MM is quite different from a Vimes book. I mean, first of all, they are supposed to be crime books (at least loosely), so naturally they can't reveal it all and will have to sneak in distractions to make you keep guessing who-dunnit. But in f.ex. Night Watch there was hardly any point of view in the entire book except Vimes' own.

And in Going Postal, there was pretty much no confusion, because I could feel in advance a general feeling of how this would be important later on (not specifically -how- it would be important, though). And when it was revealed, it made perfect sense. But some of the stuff in Making Money seemed to be in there for no real reason at all.

And in Thud!, to mention another example, the threads are more gradually resolved into the main story. Brick, for example, is resolved a bit over halfway into the book. And then comes Mr. Diamond. And then it's resolved who murdered Hamcrusher. And then it's resolved why they did it, along with resolving the whole Summoning Dark process. Whereas in MM, like I said, it was felt that all the resolutions were trying to squeeze into as few pages as physically possible, fighting over each precious word to give them the attention like people would fight over a sudden shower of hundred dollar bills.

But hey, that's just me. Of course, I happen to have a good memory (for things I find interesting) and being a fairly quick reader, so that might account for the different experiences we seem to have reading the books.

[Hawk one]

Oh, and I'm currently reading "Wintersmith". It's OK so far, but a good thing about it, is that it has one of those simply brilliant sentences that just leaps out of nowhere and attacks your brain swiftly and mercilessly, and making you keep giggling for a good while (not to mention making you write a run-on sentence to describe it). And it's so playful and delightful both in and out of context. And best of all, it's so simple, you'd think someone else would have written it by now:

No one likes an unexpected Morris dancer.

Really, even if the rest of the book stinks, I'm still satisfied simply from that sentence right there. :D

[Gaspode]

Well, I think MM is quite different from a Vimes book. I mean, first of all, they are supposed to be crime books (at least loosely), so naturally they can't reveal it all and will have to sneak in distractions to make you keep guessing who-dunnit. But in f.ex. Night Watch there was hardly any point of view in the entire book except Vimes' own.

And in Going Postal, there was pretty much no confusion, because I could feel in advance a general feeling of how this would be important later on (not specifically -how- it would be important, though). And when it was revealed, it made perfect sense. But some of the stuff in Making Money seemed to be in there for no real reason at all.

And in Thud!, to mention another example, the threads are more gradually resolved into the main story. Brick, for example, is resolved a bit over halfway into the book. And then comes Mr. Diamond. And then it's resolved who murdered Hamcrusher. And then it's resolved why they did it, along with resolving the whole Summoning Dark process. Whereas in MM, like I said, it was felt that all the resolutions were trying to squeeze into as few pages as physically possible, fighting over each precious word to give them the attention like people would fight over a sudden shower of hundred dollar bills.

But hey, that's just me. Of course, I happen to have a good memory (for things I find interesting) and being a fairly quick reader, so that might account for the different experiences we seem to have reading the books.


Actually, thinking about it, it is almost exclusively in the Vimes books that I find this many-threads-merging-into-one happening. But The Truth was also very like that which is not strictly a Vimes book. I do have trouble with this approach but that may be just me. And as much as I liked Thud it was again like that - even if it did resolve earlier in the book than usual.

Going Postal is a recent favourite of mine so I'm looking forward to Making Money on that basis alone. It's one of the few recent Discworld books that I've felt like rereading. And thanks for your review. After I've read it we can compare notes.

[Meri]

This isn't really spoiling anything, but putting in the tags nonetheless (Aren't I nice, H3ll?):

"Making Money" was mostly good, but I felt the ending was rather... confusing. Not just that things were resolved differently than what we'd expect, especially from Moist von Lipvig's part, but all the small threads that had been made throughout the book sort of culminated in a big mess... It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.

But overall, it wasn't a bad book as such. Just extra confusing, and with a bit too many distractions from the main plot. I'll see in a few days how it holds up rereading.

I know what you mean. After I finished the book, I was having so much trouble figuring out how everything had fit together, I decided to go ahead a re-read it. I just re-started it, so I'll see if that helps. Still I enjoyed the book, if only because it contained so much Moist and Vetinari. And besides, it was the most exciting book about banking and accountancy I've ever read. :)

[Hawk one]

Well, can't argue with you there, Meri. Another reason I have to marry you, I guess. :D

[3point14]

My father has 'Making Money' right now.

I wish he read quicker.

[cgordon]

Just received "Making Money" from Amazon.com.

Woohoo!

[Meri]

Well, not only am I already reading Making Money for a second time, but if anyone's interested, I also worked out the few sentences of golem language that show up in the book:

A few sentences of the language of the golems are spoken by Miss Dearheart and Professor Flead in the first Necromancy scene. In Going Postal, Miss Dearheart translates a small piece of this language "By Our Own Hand or None". The golem language is just symbols replacing letters, so this small translation can be used to read the sentences in Making Money, if you have enough spare time. I did, so here they are in English (Page numbers are the US verison):

Pg. 236, Miss Dearheart- "I can speak formal golem"

Pg. 244, Professor Flead to Miss Dearheart- 1st - "You Make Eternity Bearable".
2nd - "Why do you care about golems? They have no passionate parts!"

Not exactly exciting dialog, but there's no point in working that out and not telling anyone.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I ordered the two new books on a discount from amazon and avoided the postage.

Will have to wait untill October to get them though. :(


What's the other one besides Making Money?

BTW, I got Making Money at 30% off at Borders a couple days ago.

[Matt the Poet]

Got mine half price from Waterstone’s last week. Got to say, I’m not quite as impressed as everyone else seems to be. It’s a bit sludgy, pacing-wise, and very bitty. When Pratchett is good, all of the amusing ideas are in service of the plot. Here it feels like he’s throwing half of them in for a laugh, and the forward momentum suffers.

He’s never gone truly off the boil, but he does occasionally knock them out on autopilot these days -Monstrous Regiment was a particularly egregious example, and so far Making Money is in the same ballpark

[3point14]

Really must stop reading this thread until I've read MM.

[Pixel42]

How about this: as the Patrician grows older, he realizes that he's made himself indispensible for the functioning of the city and has to make arrangements for after he's gone?
Having read Making Money I'm convinced that Vetinari is grooming Moist to be his eventual successor.

[Shrike]

Really must stop reading this thread until I've read MM.

Yeas, it's getting harder and harder not to read the spoilers.

[3point14]

Yeas, it's getting harder and harder not to read the spoilers.


I even came back to read this.

Okay, no more until I've read it. Which means I have to wait for my father to finish it. Wish he'd hurry up.

(nice sig, btw)

[H3LL]

What's the other one besides Making Money?

BTW, I got Making Money at 30% off at Borders a couple days ago.

The other is The Wit and Wisdom of Discworld (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wit-Wisdom-Discworld-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0385611773/ref=pd_sim_b_2/202-4054799-8875845?ie=UTF8&qid=1190811863&sr=8-1).

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_318046fa596ed1e8f.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=8528)

A collection of quotes etc. (The two book offer is also in the link - Since ordering The Works has MM at the cheapest price I've seen).

I'm looking forward to getting it. Yes, yes...I know that most quotes are on the Interweb Tubes, but I still like books.

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. - TP

[Yllanes]

It seems very clear now that Pratchett is having some sort of overall plan for Discworld that wasn't visible in the past books. He might have had that vision for a while, but if he had, you wouldn't notice it (well, now that you start thinking about it, I'm sure you'll be able to spot all the clues. I know I'm starting to do it as I write this sentence.). And frankly, that sort of feels a bit annoying to me. I'm not sure why... Possibly because I want a "what matters is the here and now" feeling out of the Discworld books.


I agree with you. The book feels like a stepping stone for some future plans.

It was disappointing, the plot was not as developed as in previous books. Moist doesn't face as many difficulties as in his previous adventure and the different story threads are finished too abruptly. One major problem is that the villain of the story is not menacing at all, just a lunatic with money.

I did like the conclusion with the golems and the Undertaking looks very promising. The origin of Bent was also inspired, but the rest of the subplots were not properly finished (one example is the one about the man who knew Moist's past identity).

I liked the book but it can't compare with Going Postal.

Pixel42 makes a good point: Moist is the only conceivable succesor for Vetinari right now (by the way, the abundance of Vetinari scenes is the best point of the book).

[Shrike]

(nice sig, btw)

Thanks, it's from the interviews at the beginning of this tread.

And ten-to-one you came back to read this :D

[3point14]

Thanks, it's from the interviews at the beginning of this tread.

And ten-to-one you came back to read this :D

No bet.

[Hawk one]

I agree with you. The book feels like a stepping stone for some future plans.

It was disappointing, the plot was not as developed as in previous books. Moist doesn't face as many difficulties as in his previous adventure and the different story threads are finished too abruptly. One major problem is that the villain of the story is not menacing at all, just a lunatic with money.

I did like the conclusion with the golems and the Undertaking looks very promising. The origin of Bent was also inspired, but the rest of the subplots were not properly finished (one example is the one about the man who knew Moist's past identity).

I liked the book but it can't compare with Going Postal.

Pixel42 makes a good point: Moist is the only conceivable succesor for Vetinari right now (by the way, the abundance of Vetinari scenes is the best point of the book).


Well, you're pretty much so damn right (especially about Bent, I'd forgotten about him), I'll have to marry you too. Me, you, and Meri will just have to move to Utah or something. :D

[Meri]

I agree with you. The book feels like a stepping stone for some future plans.

It was disappointing, the plot was not as developed as in previous books. Moist doesn't face as many difficulties as in his previous adventure and the different story threads are finished too abruptly. One major problem is that the villain of the story is not menacing at all, just a lunatic with money.

I did like the conclusion with the golems and the Undertaking looks very promising. The origin of Bent was also inspired, but the rest of the subplots were not properly finished (one example is the one about the man who knew Moist's past identity).

I liked the book but it can't compare with Going Postal.

Pixel42 makes a good point: Moist is the only conceivable succesor for Vetinari right now (by the way, the abundance of Vetinari scenes is the best point of the book).


I agree about the villain. Cosmo can't compare to Gilt. I was kind of hoping Cranberry was going to do something villainous, but he actually dies with very little ceremony. The best thing Cosmo did was lead to what may be my favorite line of the book:

"Oh really, am I a sword-made-of-the-blood-of-a-thousand-men kind of ruler? It'll be a crown of skulls next, I suppose."

[Pixel42]

Good review of Making Money in the Guardian, by someone who really gets PTerry:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2179430,00.html

[Hawk one]

Well, as I don't know the situation of the English banks, I'm not really qualified to comment on how strong "Making Money" stands as pure satire.

Still, the reviewer admits that as a pure story, it's not really that strong (or at least weaker than "Going Postal", and some of Pratchett's best books are when he can combine the satire with the story like in "Going Postal", and of course in "Small Gods." And of course, it helps when he can describe a political climate so that the reader doesn't really have to know about the situation for it to be funny, like in "Interesting Times". Although perhaps he in that case realised that not many people would really be familiar with the Chinese dynasties, so he took more care to let it be a book for the uninitiated.

As for the reviewer liking the feeling of future seeds being planted better than I did, I'll just simply leave that difference to taste.

[JoeTheJuggler]

The other is The Wit and Wisdom of Discworld (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wit-Wisdom-Discworld-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0385611773/ref=pd_sim_b_2/202-4054799-8875845?ie=UTF8&qid=1190811863&sr=8-1).

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_318046fa596ed1e8f.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=8528)

A collection of quotes etc. (The two book offer is also in the link - Since ordering The Works has MM at the cheapest price I've seen).


Dang! Now I've got to buy that!

OH well--I got a good discount on Making Money. (What an odd sentence that was!)

[JoeTheJuggler]

Having read Making Money I'm convinced that Vetinari is grooming Moist to be his eventual successor.


Maybe--but we've got to see how he handles that whole tax collection business first. Remember,
"It's not a job that creates friends," said Drumknott. "It would need a special sort of person."

I predict the next in the Moist series will be called Taking Money.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I agree about the villain. Cosmo can't compare to Gilt. I was kind of hoping Cranberry was going to do something villainous, but he actually dies with very little ceremony. The best thing Cosmo did was lead to what may be my favorite line of the book:

"Oh really, am I a sword-made-of-the-blood-of-a-thousand-men kind of ruler? It'll be a crown of skulls next, I suppose."

Cosmo was a fun character. (As were all the Lavishes.) I loved the way Vetinari pretty much knows everything-- even that Drumknott's boots had gone missing and that a fake of a rumored sword is around. (The phrase I keep hearing is "a forged sword"--but I believe this sword was forged long before it was a forgery.)

[Darat]

Not one of his best but that leaves a lot of room before it gets to being bad!

One thing I didn't like was the fact that it was not really a stand alone book in that you do need to have read Postal to understand the story yet there was still a fair amount of rehashing of Postal (and other Discworld novels). (Reminded me in a way of the Hogfather TV adaptation - that didn't quite make sense unless you already knew Discworld and the book).

And it strengthens my opinion that Discworld is becoming too restrictive for Pratchett to be as creative as he used to be. In the earlier novels there were huge swathes of the "universe" of Discworld that were, at best, labeled "here be dragons" but he's now fleshed it out so much that he is having to write between everything else he's already created, which he does well but is very restrictive.

I really would like him to drop Discworld for a time so his incredible creativity and inventiveness can have free reign again.

[Matt the Poet]

Good review of Making Money in the Guardian, by someone who really gets PTerry:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2179430,00.html

Ha! Vaguely interesting aside - the reviewer was one of my creative writing tutors last year.

I wouldn't have had him pegged as a Pratchett fan. His own stuff is kind of darker...

[Hawk one]

And it strengthens my opinion that Discworld is becoming too restrictive for Pratchett to be as creative as he used to be. In the earlier novels there were huge swathes of the "universe" of Discworld that were, at best, labeled "here be dragons" but he's now fleshed it out so much that he is having to write between everything else he's already created, which he does well but is very restrictive.

I really would like him to drop Discworld for a time so his incredible creativity and inventiveness can have free reign again.

Interesting notion. Perhaps that's one reason that the later Rincewind books are good: Not so much because of Rincewind, but because he's usually somewhere far-off, meaning that Pratchett can start almost anew with another country, such as Four-Ecks...

Maybe Pratchett should send him to some India-like country next time? Or perhaps some modern Japan, who suddenly shows up to be a contestant to the Ankh-Morpork dominance not by war, but by money?

Having re-read Making Money it definitely makes more sense, and when you see the ending coming, it won't throw you off so much. Apart from that, the most disappointing thing is that Adora Belle still isn't half the cynic she is from the first Lipwig book.

[JoeTheJuggler]

So when I heard the theme of Making Money, I was worried it was going to come close to an idea I've had that I'll probably never do anything with. So any of you into writing Discworld fan fiction, try this:

Behind Unseen University there is a sprawling market (whose name I forget--but it is near the rear gate to the University). It's a hive of activity, bright colors, exotic aromas and a babble of haggling voices. As always, the magical leakage (especially from the high energy thaumaturgy buildings) ended up causing a gestalt of the market to take on a sort of presence. When you step back and hear that very generic hum of activity, you're close to hearing the Market itself.

Well, it eventually solidifies or incarnates as an invisible hand. Unfortunately, it is a purely malevolent force, so people walking alone in the area end up strangled to death by the invisible hand of the marketplace.


It's not the sort of enlightened self-interest sort of capitalism exemplified by CMOT Dibbler (who should figure in the story as a foil--sort of like a Mom and Pop business in the face of Walmart). The invisible hand is a soul-less, ammoral entity.

It's an incarnation of the market, but maybe it starts when someone comes up with the similar concept of the legal fiction of "incorporation"--where an entity exists independent of any of the people who founded it, but is nevertheless granted legal "personhood". So those sorts of documents, exposed to leaking magic. . . . .

Let's see--the story would have to have lots of Jack the Ripper references, so the victims should be members of the oldest profession--the seamstresses. The pigs sold in the marketplace speak to each other in a kind of pig-latin. They are the ones who witness some of the murders which are accompanied by that humming sound (the gestalt of the babbling of the market). It sounds like a swarm of bees, so naturally they call it "e-bay".

The story would have to follow the police investigation. It'd be nice to have a character that brings in some more modern forensics--like CSI. (I just love Vimes' distrust of clues--this one's no good because it's got fingerprints all over it. Can you imagine his reluctance to rely on Ponder Stibbons' analysis of DNA evidence--or its magical equivalent?)

And. . . well, that's about as far as I've thought about it. I can hear Colon saying something about "laissez faire". . . .

[Pipirr]

I've just re-read Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic, his very first two Discworld books. Such a contrast to his later work. Way more swordfights and half-bricks, much thinner characterisations.

He just gets better and better with time.

[Meri]

And it strengthens my opinion that Discworld is becoming too restrictive for Pratchett to be as creative as he used to be. In the earlier novels there were huge swathes of the "universe" of Discworld that were, at best, labeled "here be dragons" but he's now fleshed it out so much that he is having to write between everything else he's already created, which he does well but is very restrictive.

I really would like him to drop Discworld for a time so his incredible creativity and inventiveness can have free reign again.

As far as Discworld being too fleshed out goes, there are still large parts of Discworld we don't know much about. Genua comes to mind, and there are a few countries where all we know is the name, such as Muntab. Of course, even there all of the fundamental rules of Discworld would apply, so it couldn't be a completely new story, but there is less back story to work around.

Personally, I like the fact that the newer stories are taking place against such a well-defined history, because it gives the novels a depth that its hard to achieve any other way, but it has changed the stories a lot.

[Pixel42]

I've just come back from the Cheltenham Literature Festival where Terry Pratchett was speaking. As usual (this is the 4th or 5th time I've heard him) it was a very entertaining hour.

He talked about the TV version of Colour of Magic which is currently being made, with David Jason as Rincewind. I got the impression he was a bit dubious at first about the casting, but having watched the filming he was very happy with how he was playing the part. Apparently he has a "stunt runner" ;)

He's just been to the US, where he appeared at a Book Fair and got told off for the length of his signing queues (it upsets the poets). He'd also been to Hollywood, where the on again/off again film of Wee Free Men is still in development hell. He said he'd brought back some draft scripts to look at, but I got the impression it would be unwise to hold my breath. He clearly preferred working with the people who are doing the TV adaptations, as he can get much more personally involved.

He admitted that the Discworld was getting full, making it more difficult to write original stories. He does have plans for more, but the book he's currently writing is not set on the Discworld (though as he's writing it, it's still Discworld-ish). It's set on a parallel earth "a couple of universes over" and is about a very devout sea captain whose ship is carried far inland by a tsunami. It's called Nation.

What else? Moist is based on Richard Branson (he thinks of new ways of looking at old problems). If all the Discworld characters got into a fight, the final result would probably be a standoff between Vetinari and Granny Weatherwax (that was in response to a question from a small boy in the audience). Another question about the tendancy of literary prizes to go to obscure authors/books rather than popular authors like himself provoked the response that he saw the Booker Prize as being like Tibet: it's interesting and he's glad it's there, but he doesn't expect to visit or be made Dalai Lama.

Responding to a question about slowing down - only one book a year instead of two :rolleyes: - he revealed he's had some health problems recently, including a small stroke which left him unable to remember how to tie a necktie. He lamented that he could still remember all sorts of useless stuff, though, like advertisement jingles from the 60s.

An interesting quote, though I've forgotten the context: "At the heart of every Pratchett book you will find a book".

He skirted dangerous territory when he was asked about the pastiches of the early Discworld books: he said he doesn't do them any more, and he wouldn't dare do Harry Potter because he would get death threats - "badly written death threats". He hastened to add that he had no problem with J K Rowling, saying they'd met once and had a pleasant chat about how nice it was "to fall backwards into a pile of cash the size of St Paul's Cathedral".

OK, that's as much as I can remember :)

[Darat]

Thanks Pixel42

...snip...

He admitted that the Discworld was getting full, making it more difficult to write original stories. He does have plans for more, but the book he's currently writing is not set on the Discworld (though as he's writing it, it's still Discworld-ish). It's set on a parallel earth "a couple of universes over" and is about a very devout sea captain whose ship is carried far inland by a tsunami. It's called Nation.

...snip...

That's good news!

[SusanB-M1]

Pixel42

Thanks from me too for such an interesting post.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I
He's just been to the US, where he appeared at a Book Fair and got told off for the length of his signing queues (it upsets the poets).

And the Poets' Guild is second only to the The Guild of Fools and Joculators and College of Clowns in being pathetic.

[Gurdur]

One day Vetenari will lump the poets in with the mimes.

[TjW]

At least the mimes don't make noise.

[Meri]

Not even when you hang them upside down in a scorpion pit?

[eir_de_scania]

No, but there are some frantic gestures:D

(And I got it from one of the DW books, so it has to be true)

[Pixel42]

I few other snippets that have come back to me about the talk in Cheltenham.

[I should explain I'm doing this for friends on a Discworld forum who are scattered all over the world and never get the chance to hear Terry speak, but I see no reason not to share it with you too :) ]

Terry said David Jason gives the definitive performance of the "being thrown out of somewhere and having your stuff thrown after you" slapstick routine in Colour of Magic.

He said he liked writing for Moist and that he described him to a friend who doesn't read Discworld books, and - after he explained how the more Moist told people how he was cheating them and taking their money, the more they laughed and gave him their money - his friend said "Ah, there's an autobiographical element in him then".

Discussing the dedication at the beginning of Making Money he said he'd be willing to undertake field research into the relationship between women's hemlines and levels of national crisis provided he was given "a large grant, a tape measure and immunity from prosecution".

There was a question about Vetinari which prompted some thoughts about the character. He said Vetinari would find the idea of human rights amusing, as he would see rights as something members of a society mutually agree to give each other rather than things which "drop from the sky". The character had grown and developed in ways that seemed to surprise even him. [He said at another point that sometimes he set out to write scenes he'd planned and the characters just refused to do what he expected]. There may well be advantages to a benevolent dictatorship like Vetinari's, but he said if he lived in such a society in the real world he would join the resistance.

There are only two real differences between writing for children and for adults: you bear in mind that your shared experience with children is much smaller than with adults (e.g. you don't put in references to things that happened before they were born), and you don't put in so much red hot sex. He added that he wasn't very good at red hot sex anyway ("write what you know" ;) ). You shouldn't give a ten-year-old a book written for a ten-year-old; you should always give a child a book written for someone a few years older, that's how they learn.

He also made a couple of comments about his most dedicated fans. Apparently he stole some props from the set of Hogfather and auctioned them at a Discworld convention (for charity) and was horrified by the ridiculously large sums they went for. The problem is if he told them "You're all lunatics" they would just reply "Yes". He'd also obviously read some of the online discussions about Making Money, and referred to one criticism that had been made that he didn't mention Groat. He said he was considering putting something at the front of each new book to reassure readers about the characters he doesn't mention - "X is on holiday, Y's in bed with flu, Z has moved and didn't leave a forwarding address ...".

[DeVega]

Thanks Pixel42 - Terry is such a hoot live, isn't he? I'll never forget at one of the Discworld Conventions (may have been the first one?) when he read to us (first draft, off his laptop!) scenes from 'The Hogfather' - The scene in the department store when Death is being Santa & the scene with Susan clobbering the monsters under the bed

I was at DragonCon in Atlanta recently and was on a panel about Terry & the Discworld - it was completely full, standing room at the back! And that was just to talk about him! lol! I think DragonCon would be pretty thrilled if TP ever goes over... sheer magic!

[Gaspode]

Thanks Pixel42! Reminds me of the time I met Pratchett briefly at a book signing for The Truth seven years ago. I had four copies signed, each for different people including my sister. She's not a fan but at the time she was News Editor at the Bucks Free Press, the paper Pratchett worked at. When I mentioned this he started reminiscing about his time there and about how the building at Gomm Road was hot in summer and cold in winter - something my sister had mentioned several times in the past.

So I thought I'd have a look for future book signings and found this:


Terry Pratchett will be signing his new book 'Making Money' on Saturday 13th October 1 - 2pm in Forbidden Planet's London Megastore on Shaftesbury Avenue.
http://www.londonisfree.com/2007/10/terry_pratchett_making_money.html

Anyone in the London area interested? I'm hoping to make it down there myself but I'm not certain I can at the moment - work as usual taking over my life!

[rwguinn]

Just saw that Direct TV, ch 305, is showing "HOGFATHER", Sunday 25 November. In the US!
Gotta get the VCR Ready....

[Kell]

Just FYI, here's a video of Terry giving a talk at a Barnes & Noble branch in New York. Can't see a date on the page, but I think it was within the last few months. I searched the whole thread and didn't see it already linked.
Terry covers a lot of the same things Pixel42 reported; the new CoM/LF movie, the non-discworld novel Nation, some talk of Wintersmith and Making Money.
It's an hour long, with more than half being an audience Q&A.

http://media.barnesandnoble.com/index.jsp?fr_story=66ea36effacb12f8d42a1294411c2b5 25c7706bf

ETA: It's also worth watching just to hear Terry sing. More than Once.

[SusanB-M1]

Just FYI, here's a video of Terry giving a talk at a Barnes & Noble branch in New York. Can't see a date on the page, but I think it was within the last few months. I searched the whole thread and didn't see it already linked.
Terry covers a lot of the same things Pixel42 reported; the new CoM/LF movie, the non-discworld novel Nation, some talk of Wintersmith and Making Money.
It's an hour long, with more than half being an audience Q&A.

http://media.barnesandnoble.com/index.jsp?fr_story=66ea36effacb12f8d42a1294411c2b5 25c7706bf

ETA: It's also worth watching just to hear Terry sing. More than Once.

Many thanks for putting that link - I have just spent a very pleasant hour or so listening to it. I love the bit about the Carnegie medal!

[H3LL]

http://media.barnesandnoble.com/index.jsp?fr_story=66ea36effacb12f8d42a1294411c2b5 25c7706bf

ETA: It's also worth watching just to hear Terry sing. More than Once.

Great link...Thanks for adding it.

.

[lylfyl]

To the American fans who are tired of missing out on the UK Discworld conventions, I give you the first North American Discworld Convention (http://nadwcon.org/).

September 4-7, 2009 in Tempe, Arizona


The Turtle Moves.

[Graham Ross]

If all the Discworld characters got into a fight, the final result would probably be a standoff between Vetinari and Granny Weatherwax (that was in response to a question from a small boy in the audience).

I imagine they wouldn't be able to kill each other since they already defeated Death.

[Pipirr]

For anyone here who has read Making Money, doesn't the MONIAC seem familiar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC_Computer

[Hawk one]

Pipirr: Well, it should seem familiar, considering the author mentions it in the preface; he calls it "Phillips Economics Computer", though.

[H3LL]

Rather sad news:


Author Pratchett has Alzheimer's

Author Terry Pratchett is suffering from a rare form of early Alzheimer's disease, it has been revealed.

In a letter published on the website of artist Paul Kidby, the writer said the condition was behind a "phantom stroke" he had earlier this year.

Pratchett said his statement should be interpreted as "I am not dead" and that he had taken the news "philosophically" and "possibly with a mild optimism".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7141458.stm


It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life. - Terry Pratchett

[Pixel42]

I've just received the brochure for next year's Bath Literature Festival, and Terry is down to appear on Saturday 23rd Feb (7.30 - 8.30).

The blurb says this is "an inaugural event to kick off the celebrations for the twenty-fifth year of Discworld".

Let's hope Terry's health doesn't prevent this going ahead.

I've found it on on their website:

http://www.bathlitfest.org.uk/terry-pratchett.html

[H3LL]

I've just received the brochure for next year's Bath Literature Festival, and Terry is down to appear on Saturday 23rd Feb (7.30 - 8.30).

Marked on the calendar.

Thanks.

:cool:

[H3LL]

I've just received the brochure for next year's Bath Literature Festival, and Terry is down to appear on Saturday 23rd Feb (7.30 - 8.30).

Marked on the calendar.

Thanks.

:cool:

[Hawk one]

It seems that certain people deal with the sad news in their own, twisted manner (http://www.somethingpositive.net/arch/sust12232007.jpg). I think it's a good idea for a certain Mr. Pratchett to stay away from people with more than two eyes for a while...

[JoeTheJuggler]

He also made a couple of comments about his most dedicated fans. Apparently he stole some props from the set of Hogfather and auctioned them at a Discworld convention (for charity) and was horrified by the ridiculously large sums they went for. The problem is if he told them "You're all lunatics" they would just reply "Yes".
He wasn't wearing a gold suit and a big gold helmet at the time, was he?

[H3LL]

Anyone know the exact day for Sky's new Pratchett movie?

.

[Pixel42]

March's Sky magazine says to check the EPG for time/date, which suggests the final decision for the scheduling is being made very late. It's definitely over Easter though. Early evening (7-ish) Easter Sunday and Monday would be my guess.

There's a thread for it in the TV forum:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3491603#post3491603

[kiwimac]

It seems that certain people deal with the sad news in their own, twisted manner[/url]. I think it's a good idea for a certain Mr. Pratchett to stay away from people with more than two eyes for a while...


Interesting cartoon. I was stunned to hear of pterry's EOA, Nice to know someone cares so much (in a strange, twisted kind of way! :D )

[Pixel42]

There's an interview with Pratchett in today's Guardian:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/interviews/story/0,,2266270,00.html

I shudder with admiration at his attitude. I suspect I would not be anything like as positive and philosophical if I were in his position.

[SusanB-M1]

There's an interview with Pratchett in today's Guardian:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/interviews/story/0,,2266270,00.html

I shudder with admiration at his attitude. I suspect I would not be anything like as positive and philosophical if I were in his position.
Thanks for putting the link. I would certainly never have seen the article otherwise.

[Dave_46]

Anyone know the exact day for Sky's new Pratchett movie?

.

Friday 21, Sky 2 at 8:00 p.m. The making of The Colour of Magic

Sunday 23, Sky 1 at 6:00 p.m. TCM part 1

Monday 24, Sky 1 at 6:00 p.m. TCM part 2

Dave

[DeVega]

[Quote] Author Terry Pratchett, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last year, has just donated half a million pounds to research into the disease.[End Quote]

Someone just emailed me to let me know that there's a (very informal) movement afoot amongst Pratchett fans to match his donation i.e. "Match It For Pratchett" - it's reckoned that if every TP fan just donated a £1 (or $1) to Alzheimer's research, that would easily be achievable. Alas, because it is the fan's spontaneous, 'non-organized' thing, I don't have any links to provide... but I'll have a hunt around...

[DeVega]

Here we go: http://www.alzheimers-research.org.uk

[H3LL]

Friday 21, Sky 2 at 8:00 p.m. The making of The Colour of Magic

Sunday 23, Sky 1 at 6:00 p.m. TCM part 1

Monday 24, Sky 1 at 6:00 p.m. TCM part 2

Dave

Thank-you-very-much.

Stuck in China at the moment and have missed the making of... Pleading with family to record it for me.

.

[Lensman]

Having just breezed over the posts in this thread, how many people got the pun at the end of "Soul Music"?

[zooterkin]

Someone just emailed me to let me know that there's a (very informal) movement afoot amongst Pratchett fans to match his donation i.e. "Match It For Pratchett"

Here (http://www.matchitforpratchett.org/)'s what looks like the main web-site. There's now a spin-off campaign, Wear the Lilac for Alzheimers (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=19273092&uid=1342719&members=1).

Having just breezed over the posts in this thread, how many people got the pun at the end of "Soul Music"?
It's a while since I read it; if you could put a reminder in a spoiler, I could tell you.

[Pixel42]

Having just breezed over the posts in this thread, how many people got the pun at the end of "Soul Music"?
Most, I would think. It's one of the less obscure ones.

I doubt if anyone gets all Pratchett's references, though. I recently re-read Witches Abroad and smiled at this description of the witches' progress on their broomsticks through the Ramtop mountains:

They were flying through a maze of twisty little canyons, all alike

You need to be both a computer nerd and over 40 to get that one.

[Yllanes]

Someone just emailed me to let me know that there's a (very informal) movement afoot amongst Pratchett fans to match his donation i.e. "Match It For Pratchett" - it's reckoned that if every TP fan just donated a £1 (or $1) to Alzheimer's research, that would easily be achievable. Alas, because it is the fan's spontaneous, 'non-organized' thing, I don't have any links to provide... but I'll have a hunt around...

Here's (http://www.discworldstamps.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11460) a message by Pratchett warning that this movement is not official. I think it would be better to donate directly to the charity, with the link you posted earlier.

[zooterkin]

You need to be both a computer nerd and over 40 to get that one.

I got it, but, not surprisingly, I qualify on both counts.

[DeVega]

Thanks Ylanes - I donated direct to the charity (on the link I supplied) and just wrote in the message box that I was "Matching it for Pratchett" - so there would be no chance of the funds going astray. The MIFP website has only gone up recently and I note that the donations made there ARE also linked directly to the Altzhiemers Soc page/account...

I know the people who started it (notably Pat Cadigan the lauded SF author) have only good intentions & I think TP is just concerned that the thing might run away with them - he is in no way suggesting it is fraudulent or anything like that.

However, I don't know anything about the lavander ribbon thing - that must be a recent development...

I was at EasterCon last week and I know they collected a large amount - also PCon in Dublin was collecting - I think it's pretty good that fandom is doing this off their own back (we/they do suffer from bad press y'know! They're lovely people.) And I imagine TP is very sensibly sounding a note of caution/restraint. At the end of the day, we all want the money to reach and benefit the charity concerned.

All best
DeVega

[gumboot]

Most, I would think. It's one of the less obscure ones.

I doubt if anyone gets all Pratchett's references, though. I recently re-read Witches Abroad and smiled at this description of the witches' progress on their broomsticks through the Ramtop mountains:

You need to be both a computer nerd and over 40 to get that one.


I tend to agree. One thing that struck me, reading both Masquerade and Moving Pictures was how many "in jokes" there were or otherwise specific references that only those who had theatre or film experience would pick up on. It had me wondering how many jokes I was missing in his other books about subjects that I did not have personal first hand experience.

[rwguinn]

I tend to agree. One thing that struck me, reading both Masquerade and Moving Pictures was how many "in jokes" there were or otherwise specific references that only those who had theatre or film experience would pick up on. It had me wondering how many jokes I was missing in his other books about subjects that I did not have personal first hand experience.

It took the second reference of "you looked elvish" for me to get it (Soul Music).
Sometimes I'm a bit dense...

[MarkCorrigan]

Having just breezed over the posts in this thread, how many people got the pun at the end of "Soul Music"?

That would be the one about Imp's new job yes? If so, then I got it the second time around. Laughed my head off for ages when it finally hit me though.

[lylfyl]

I tend to agree. One thing that struck me, reading both Masquerade and Moving Pictures was how many "in jokes" there were or otherwise specific references that only those who had theatre or film experience would pick up on. It had me wondering how many jokes I was missing in his other books about subjects that I did not have personal first hand experience.

There is an Annotated Pratchett File (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/) at Lspace.org (http://www.LSpace.org). It contains annotations and explanations of the in-jokes, puns, language translations, literary allusions in his books. I would never have gotten any of the Latin references without it.
Don't peek ahead until you've finished a particular book, it'll ruin the fun.

[H3LL]

There are some interesting little nuggets of Discworld trivia, interviews (short) and other stuff on Sky's website.

http://www.skyoneonline.co.uk/tcom/index.html

It is all related to The Colour of Magic movie recently shown on Sky.

Make sure you check out the Tourist Guide so that you are aware of A-M's less than liberal attitude to street theatre, among other things.

:D

[Worm]

I noticed that Pterry had a small cameo in 'The Colour of Magic'

As an actor he makes a very good author.

[albion]

There are some interesting little nuggets of Discworld trivia, interviews (short) and other stuff on Sky's website.


It is all related to The Colour of Magic movie recently shown on Sky.

Make sure you check out the Tourist Guide so that you are aware of A-M's less than liberal attitude to street theatre, among other things.

:D

I'm fully expecting to get shot-down, but I didn't enjoy The Colour of Magic TV dramatisation very much. It didn't really hold my interest past the first 15 minutes. Maybe my expectations were too high after enjoying so many of the books.

[brodski]

I'm fully expecting to get shot-down, but I didn't enjoy The Colour of Magic TV dramatisation very much. It didn't really hold my interest past the first 15 minutes. Maybe my expectations were too high after enjoying so many of the books.

I thought it was pretty dire too, as was the hog-father adapted at Christmas.

[Gaspode]

I watched it, thought 'hmmm, not bad', but have no desire to watch it again. Unremarkable at best. And David Jason is not Rincewind IMHO.

Perhaps this is David Jason's latest career move - playing as many Discworld characters as possible. What will we see next? David Jason as Commander Vimes? David Jason as Mort? David Jason as Granny Weatherwax?

[albion]

I thought it was pretty dire too, as was the hog-father adapted at Christmas.

I'd forgotten about the Hogfather or I may have tried to put it out of my mind. That was truly appalling.

I watched it, thought 'hmmm, not bad', but have no desire to watch it again. Unremarkable at best. And David Jason is not Rincewind IMHO.

Perhaps this is David Jason's latest career move - playing as many Discworld characters as possible. What will we see next? David Jason as Commander Vimes? David Jason as Mort? David Jason as Granny Weatherwax?

Exactly. Also the actor who played Twoflower was insufferable.

[Worm]

Sean Astin

A terrible piece of casting.

The whole thing was decidedly 'average'. I've actaully seen amateur stage adaptations of Pratchett's work that were a far better demonstration of the humour and 'feel' of the books.

[H3LL]

Two new books from Pterry.

You never know, a friendly mod might update the bibliography in the OP. *Hint* *Hint* :D

Nation (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nation-Terry-Pratchett/dp/0385613709/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211970503&sr=1-2)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/3180483d376f60f7d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=12381)

Not a Discworld novel.

As can be expected from Terry Pratchett, the master story-teller, this new children's novel is both witty and wise, encompassing themes of death and nationhood, while being extremely funny. Mau's ancestors have something to teach us all. Mau just wishes they would shut up about it and let him get on with saving everyone's lives!



The Folklore of Discworld (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Folklore-Discworld-Jacqueline-Simpson/dp/0385611005/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1211970503&sr=1-2)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/3180483d378d8c1ad.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=12382)

A collaboration with Jacqueline Simpson.

Terry Pratchett teams up with leading British folklorist Jacqueline Simpson to give an irreverent yet illuminating look at the living myths and folklore that are reflected, celebrated and affectionately libelled in the uniquely imaginative universe of Discworld.


The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head.
Terry Pratchett - Hogfather

[Gaspode]

Just got around to reading May's Skymag and found this little nugget:

Sky One is planning to adapt another of the author's Discworld novels, Going Postal.
Can't find much info online but I guess we'll know more later in the year.

[Alice Shortcake]

I don't think Pratchett's books lend themselves to either live action or animated adaptations. Without the rambling digressions and hilarious footnotes the stories just aren't the same.

[balrog666]

I don't think Pratchett's books lend themselves to either live action or animated adaptations. Without the rambling digressions and hilarious footnotes the stories just aren't the same.


Ding, ding, ding! We have a winnah!

:bigclap

[H3LL]

Nation and The Folklore of Discworld now ordered.

Anyone else getting/got them?

.

[H3LL]

From Here:

TerryPratchett.co.uk (http://terrypratchett.co.uk/news/#SecondLife)

Terry Pratchett in Second Life
News Release 3rd September 2008
Terry Pratchett's publishers in the UK and US announce today his participation in a special event in the virtual world Second Life.

A Second Life sim version of a South Pacific tropical island, modelled on the island Nation which features in Terry’s new novel, NATION, will be created complete with scenes and locations from the book. This new virtual island will be called The Nation, and a treasure hunt will lead users through a series of clues to find virtual books and treasure as well as real, physical prizes.








"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of his own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time".
Terry Pratchett - Good Omens

[Mashuna]

Nation and The Folklore of Discworld now ordered.

Anyone else getting/got them?

.

I found Nation entertaining, although I would have preferred a Discworld book. I've not seen the Folklore of Discworld. Is it more of a reference/companion piece?

[Gurdur]

Folklore is a reference/companion piece.

I got my copy of Nation, gonna read it in Ireland, which is where I will be in one day from now. Maybe it will last me the 4 days before I go onwards to Scotland, more likely I'll have finished it, and will by myself Christopher Brookmyre's newest novel and read it in Scotland.

[Mashuna]

Folklore is a reference/companion piece.

I got my copy of Nation, gonna read it in Ireland, which is where I will be in one day from now. Maybe it will last me the 4 days before I go onwards to Scotland, more likely I'll have finished it, and will by myself Christopher Brookmyre's newest novel and read it in Scotland.

I enjoyed the new Brookmyre book too. :)

[Pixel42]

I found Nation entertaining, although I would have preferred a Discworld book.
Likewise.

Nation got a very favourable review in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/13/terrypratchett.booksforchildrenandteenagers

[TMiguel]

Wow, this topic has been going on for quite a while now. I see some interesting books that I haven't seen before. Maybe I will get a few.

[Worm]

I finished Nation a couple of weeks ago.

I really enjoyed it. I was slightly disappointed at first that it wasn't a Discworld book, but got over that pretty quick, as Pterry created a parrallel reality with remarkable detail in quite a short time.

The story was eventful without seeming forced, and developed slowly enough for you to feel part of it as it unfolded.

A good read.

[SusanB-M1]

Likewise.

Nation got a very favourable review in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/13/terrypratchett.booksforchildrenandteenagers

I have bought 'Nation' but have not started it yet.
I have not heard of the 'Bromelian' trilogy. I must make enquiries.

(this is my 900th post so, being concerned with TP, I think it carries a little extra weight.)

[Worm]

The Bromeliad is very cool, and they are quite short books, so it's an easy read.

[SusanB-M1]

The Bromeliad is very cool, and they are quite short books, so it's an easy read.
I phoned Waterstones and as soon as they said, 'Truckers', I realised that I had forgotten they were called the Bromelian trilogy. 'Truckers' was the first TP I read!

[Rasmus]

Ohhhh, I just read those again. Good times!

[SisterSmile]

It's nice to find so many Pratchett fans here. I started reading a few years ago after a collegue told me about Discworld. I started with "The colour of magic" and was hooked immediately.
I've just finished "Small Gods", which I absolutely adored and I am now in the middle of "Moving Pictures" - I am a big movie buff so I'm lovin' it !

I always read the books in English - no translation can capture the essence of British humour. I intend to read the entire series.

[Gurdur]

I enjoyed the new Brookmyre book too. :)


He seems to have recaptured some skill, brevity and relevance, and not be so .... something-or-'tother, as in say "Be My Enemy" and to some degree in other recent works.

[H3LL]

Prompted to do something by LL's thread, here I am.

Have a video:

4Zppx684ET0




"Twenty five is a number you come to after twenty four...It's stuff! ... It's calendar!" - Terry Pratchett







.

[Filippo Lippi]

A football book? If there's bits you don't 'get' I don't mind explaining them to you.

;)

[H3LL]

It could be the one an only Pterry book I don't buy.










As if. :D

[Jeff Corey]

It's all about balls, innit?

[kiwimac]

I just love Pterry and his work.

[H3LL]

A bit behind with his books but here's a video that may interest some:


"I'd rather be a rising ape than a fallen angel" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/video/2009/dec/19/terry-pratchett-religion)

[Marduk]

"the Turtle moves !!!"
:cool:

[fleabeetle]

Voicing heresy here -- picking up stuff about Pratchett for many years second-hand, I had the strong feeling that his books wouldn't be for me: too much of an impression got, that for my tastes, his humour would feel heavy-handed and leaden and too suffused with an authorial self-satisified attitude of "aren't I just the funniest and most original writer ever?".

This gut-feeling so intense, that I never wanted even to try a Pratchett book, to see whether it was warranted. A few years ago, someone directly challenged me to make the experiment. I did so ("Guards ! Guards !" IIRC): and while I found a few elements in it, laughter-provoking; in the main, what I read, reinforced the impression which I had formed "sight unseen". Decided, with a certain amount of regret, that TP is just "not my bag".

Very many people whose tastes in reading matter and the good things of life in general, I respect, love Pratchett's works. Feel that I must conclude that the fault lies with me, rather than with him -- but accept that he just doesn't work for me. As with many authors -- perhaps another chance in the next life, should there prove to be such...

[Filippo Lippi]

A bit behind with his books but here's a video that may interest some:


"I'd rather be a rising ape than a fallen angel" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/video/2009/dec/19/terry-pratchett-religion)

The full interview is good.

Thank you, H3ll

Th3ll

[Hawk one]

Voicing heresy here -- picking up stuff about Pratchett for many years second-hand, I had the strong feeling that his books wouldn't be for me: too much of an impression got, that for my tastes, his humour would feel heavy-handed and leaden and too suffused with an authorial self-satisified attitude of "aren't I just the funniest and most original writer ever?".
As much as I really enjoy Pratchett, I think I see where you're coming from, at least in regards to the early books. They are, for the most part, "gag" books, and I personally believe it to be a result of Pratchett being a tad too influenced by Douglas Adams. Except that Adams was being much better than Pratchett (or just about any writer in the world) at simply playing with language for language's sake, and make it fun for the reader as much as for himself.

I think that Pratchett's books have for the most part improved as he's given more time to plot and character depth (things that Adams was rather less adept at compared to being funny). And some of the things I like the most these days are for example the parts in "Carpe Jugulum" where Granny Weatherwax is alone, and those parts actually doesn't contain a single gag or pun. Or the fact that the first Tiffany book is dealing with death in a far more serious manner than the rest of the Discworld books (interesting really, considering the Tiffany series are supposed to be for younger readers).

This change has of course been gradual, but I would say that around books 12-14 or so (like "Small Gods") are where you can see that he's starting to find the balance between gag/plot/characters.

Somewhere earlier in this thread, someone mentioned that s/he considered some of the books "dark books", which might be more to your liking. Perhaps "Carpe Jugulum" would be a nice place for you to retry reading the series. Or "Night Watch". Or maybe not. The style has most definitely turned more balanced, but it's still fairly recognisable as Pratchett style. So take my post with as many pinches of salt that you feel necessary.

-------------------------------------------------------
Oh, was that too serious and polite a response? Well then, unless you promise to worship Pratchett in all his glory, I shall give Nanny Ogg - undisputed matiarch of the Ogg clan - a hint that you might have insulted one of her relatives. -THEN- you'll definitely be sorry, you heathen!!!!

[fleabeetle]

I think on balance, you'd best pass that info to Nanny, and "have done" ! Suspect that I'm too old and set in my ways -- and with so very much else as yet unread, that I positively want to read -- ever to become a Pratchett convert. (By the way, I think Adams ["mostly"] brilliant -- with a splendidly light and subtle touch -- I don't blanket-dislike everything in this genre.)

As said -- with so many people whom I respect, loving Pratchett's works: I can't just merrily write said works off as rubbish. Must conclude that the necessary "whatever" for appreciating his stuff, was simply omitted from my make-up.

Off at a "famous people known at a couple of removes" tangent: a friend of mine (like me, not a fan of Mr. P.'s books) once -- many years back -- had a slight personal acquaintance with the guy, before he hit the big time writing-wise, and was working in a clerical capacity for the same employer for which my friend worked. T.P. made no particular personal impression on my friend "for good or ill" -- friend just remembers that he was there, and definitely the same person of that name.

[nota]

a gem from unseen academicals

''Juliet's version of cleanliness was next to godliness , which was to say it was erratic,
past all understanding and seldom seen "

[ejk]

I really enjoyed the book. Not one of the absolute best all-time discworld books, but very enjoyable. Those who are thinking of not reading it because it's about football, don't let that put you off. It's really not much about sports per se. There's a lot of other things going on. It's sort of like not reading Going Postal because you aren't interested in the mail. If you're a Pratchett fan, don't skip this one.

[Dorian Gray]

All the books are good. Some better than others. I'd say the later ones are better than the earlier ones, but that's to be expected. I sometimes wish Tolkien had played with language more, in a humorous way. The only joke I really remember was that "Speak friend and enter" thing. Could have done with more humor.

[Madalch]

I just picked up "The Colour of Magic" on DVD, and am busily comparing it to the book. Not too bad, although huge swaths are skipped over.