StopSylviaBrowne - Contradiction: Meeting "Francine"

[RSLancastr]

New article up:

http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/contradiction_meetingfrancine.shtml
Contradiction: Meeting "Francine"
Browne's various versions of how she met her "spirit guide".

[Miss Anthrope]

Excellent! Now THIS is the kind of stuff I want to see and pass around Robert!

[philkensebben]

I'd just love to see (or hear) her response to this.

[Stitch]

I'd just love to see (or hear) her response to this.

"Well it was the night of my 8th birthday and I ran round the whole house jibbering to my 3 grandmas"

;)

[Pythra]

Funny how she was able to stick to almost the same story for about ten years, and then only comparatively recently decided to change it drastically. Perhaps she felt her more recent version sounded more plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if the change is deliberate rather than an oversight, and she's relying on her regular readers not to call her out on it. Since her entire series of books is completely fictional and somewhat repetitive, it's not surprising she gets the urge to reimagine things.

[monoman]

Great stuff again Robert.

It amazes me that she can't be bothered to do a simple check to see what she'd written in a previous account.

[pspaddict]

You're on fire, Robert! This is a brilliant and appalling article for the fact that Browne has been able to get away with this deception for so long. It's amazing how little considering Browne gives her readers that she feels she can write anything without any consequences, though, sadly, for far too long, that has been the case.

[SezMe]

Robert, in version 2 you state:

What about the possibility that this version was written by co-author Antoinette May rather than by Browne herself, and that accounting for the differences?
I think the word "accounting" should be "accounts"

That noted, good stuff.

[ObscureReferenceMan]

Minor nitpick, Robert. I think you're missing a parenthesis:
A very different account can be found in her 1991 book Adventures of a Psychic (originally published in 1990 as My Guide, Myself, co-written by Browne and Antoinette May.
(Probably belongs between May and the period.)

But still, nice summary!

[Miss Whiplash]

Great again Robert! Sylvia gave another account of meeting her sprint guide in Psychic Children. It seemed different than both these, but that could be a false memory on my part. I'm going by the library today. I'll see if it's available and recheck it.

[SeekingTruth]

Great again Robert! Sylvia gave another account of meeting her sprint guide in Psychic Children. It seemed different than both these, but that could be a false memory on my part. I'm going by the library today. I'll see if it's available and recheck it.

Vampire,
You won't need to do that, I have scanned the page from Psychic Children and emailed it to Robert.

ST

[Minarvia]

Oooh! Oooh! I can't wait to find out what the difference is THIS time.

Nice article, Robert! With such stunts as these Sylvia is helping to hang herself. Bet she never thought she'd be helping you to "STOP" her!

[RSLancastr]

Excellent! Now THIS is the kind of stuff I want to see and pass around Robert!Thanks, MA!

I'd just love to see (or hear) her response to this.I don't think we're likely to... :)

"Well it was the night of my 8th birthday and I ran round the whole house jibbering to my 3 grandmas":D

Funny how she was able to stick to almost the same story for about ten years, and then only comparatively recently decided to change it drastically.Yes, odd, that. And in fact, she has changed it even more drasticaly than the article currently shows. More on that firther down...

Great stuff again Robert.Thanks, monoman!

You're on fire, Robert!Do we have "stop, drop and roll" smiley? :)

This is a brilliant and appalling article for the fact that Browne has been able to get away with this deception for so long. It's amazing how little considering Browne gives her readers that she feels she can write anything without any consequences, though, sadly, for far too long, that has been the case.Sad but true, pspa. Thanks.

I think the word "accounting" should be "accounts"Hmmm. It seems okay as is to me.

What does anyone else think? (Perhaps I should ask someone with a Master's in English Lit...)

Minor nitpick, Robert. I think you're missing a parenthesis:
A very different account can be found in her 1991 book Adventures of a Psychic (originally published in 1990 as My Guide, Myself, co-written by Browne and Antoinette May.
(Probably belongs between May and the period.)
Actually, it belongs between "Myself" and the comma. Thanks for spotting it!

But still, nice summary!Thanks!

Great again Robert! Sylvia gave another account of meeting her sprint guide in Psychic Children.You're right! In it, she gives another version of the "playing with a flashlight" story, but in it, she only HEARS Francine and does not see her.

Vampire,
You won't need to do that, I have scanned the page from Psychic Children and emailed it to Robert.Thanks, ST!

In addition to all of this, an email correspondent has opinted out to me that there are even more contradictions about this in Contacting the Other Side.

Now I need to decide whether to simply work these into the article, ar add an "Update" section to it. Hmmm...

[sgf8]

OhMyFSM Good work Robert. This woman keeps painting herself in a corner doesn't she?

Susan

[JoeTheJuggler]

Has she anywhere addressed the issue of how a Mayan or Aztec (which are two very different cultures--did she simply forget which she was after "crossing over"?) came to have the European name "Francine" and speak English?

[Steven Howard]

Has she anywhere addressed the issue of how a Mayan or Aztec (which are two very different cultures--did she simply forget which she was after "crossing over"?) came to have the European name "Francine" and speak English?


In two of three accounts on the page Robert just posted, Sylvia tells us that Francine's "real" name is Iena.

Most English-speaking spirit mediums tell us that everyone speaks English on "the Other Side." If you're not a direct-voice medium, you can also say that the spirits speak their own language* but part of the medium's gift is to hear them in the medium's native tongue.

*Or a magical spirit language, perhaps, just in case somebody tries to ask a question in a language that the spirit speaks but you don't.

[RSLancastr]

Check out the "Updates" section just added.

[Locknar]

Check out the "Updates" section just added.

I did a quick read....one question though on this comment: "My family watched the full manifestation, but I couldn't."

So others can her spirit guide? I'm not a SB/sprit guide expert by any streach...but I didn't think that was possible??

[monoman]

Post #13:

Robert, you changed my quote and made me look vain. I'm reporting you :D

[scratchy]

*Or a magical spirit language, perhaps, just in case somebody tries to ask a question in a language that the spirit speaks but you don't.
Isnt the aztec language still alive among mexican indians? I believe so. Someone should arrange for one of them to ask Francine questions in that language. Sylvia wont need to understand, she could just repeat it to the medium as it sounds and then report back to the indian for a translation.

[RSLancastr]

OhMyFSM Good work Robert. This woman keeps painting herself in a corner doesn't she?Thanks, Susan. And yes, she does. She's been busy doing so for years. And now it's time to point it out.

Has she anywhere addressed the issue of how a Mayan or Aztec (which are two very different cultures--did she simply forget which she was after "crossing over"?) came to have the European name "Francine" and speak English?She has addressed the fact that Aztec and Incan cultures are not known to have ever met. She says they did. So there.

As for the name, as it says in the article, her "spirit guide's" name in life was Iena, and Browne renamed her "Francine."

Speaking English? According to Browne, Spirit Guides have a direct connection to the mind of god. So I'd think that speaking English wouldn't be a problem. However, she says that on The Other Side, everyone speaks Aramaic.

So others can her spirit guide? I'm not a SB/sprit guide expert by any streach...but I didn't think that was possible??Not sure on that. But, after all, this is Browne's spirit guide, so Francine is extra-special.

Robert, you changed my quote and made me look vain. I'm reporting you :DProve it! :D

Isnt the aztec language still alive among mexican indians? I believe so. Someone should arrange for one of them to ask Francine questions in that language. Sylvia wont need to understand, she could just repeat it to the medium as it sounds and then report back to the indian for a translation.I'm sure she will submit to that right after she takes the Million Dollar Challenge as she promised.

[Locknar]

RSL - Well...the follow on would be; wonder how come Francine does not show up during the Montel tapings...or she does, why nobody ever yells out "I SEE FRANCINE!!!!"

EDIT: For that matter...why would SB have to channel, or otherwise allow Francnie to take control of her body, if folks could see her I'd think they would be able to hear here as well??

[Kilgore Trout]

Hmmm. It seems okay as is to me.

What does anyone else think? (Perhaps I should ask someone with a Master's in English Lit...)
That made me laugh.. But afraid I don't know of any. In my opinion, though, it needs to be 'and that accounts for the differences' unless there was a bit at the end, like 'and that, accounting for the differences, something else.'

And great article. Playing devil's advocate a moment, though, version 5 may be a different sort of event. She says she was 18 before Francine 'physically' manifested herself to Sylvia. This could be some weird psychic phenomenon entirely different from clairvoyance and instead of just appearing to Sylvia, Francine somehow entered the real world (and Sylvia's family were able to see her, even). Then it was much later that Sylvia saw her again "in condensed form". So perhaps Sylvia had been able to see her, like, psychically since she was 7/8 but at 18 she could actually see her visually. Sorta, in a way. Though this would seem to have other implications on her belief system, that spirit guides are able to enter the world physically, and Mr. Randi's million is in serious jeopardy.

Also, the first couple accounts seem to basically say that she was clairvoyant prior to hearing Francine, and at age 7/8 she became clairaudient. This seems to be a big event for a psychic ('and now I was hearing voices!') never mind that it was with her spirit guide. Version 4, though, states a "voice said, with a clarity I'd never experienced before from the spirit world" which seems to imply she'd already been hearing spirit stuff, just not as clearly as when Francine spoke to her.

[rjh01]

The only way I knew you had done an update was by reading this thread. Is it worth sending out an e-mail to tell everyone about the update?

As for languages the spirit guide should be able to understand and speak ANY language. There must be a problem with that logic as Sylvia only speaks English.

[geni]

Isnt the aztec language still alive among mexican indians? I believe so. Someone should arrange for one of them to ask Francine questions in that language. Sylvia wont need to understand, she could just repeat it to the medium as it sounds and then report back to the indian for a translation.

A bit over a million speakers. There is even a wikipedia in Nahuatl:

http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal%C4%ABxatl

[RSLancastr]

RSL - Well...the follow on would be; wonder how come Francine does not show up during the Montel tapings...or she does, why nobody ever yells out "I SEE FRANCINE!!!!"I'm guessing they do, but are quietly escorted from the building...

If I recall, Browne says that making themselves visible to humans is exhausting for a spirit guide, and so they only do it on important occasions.

Evidently, the Montel Williams Show is not one of them.

That made me laugh.. But afraid I don't know of any. In my opinion, though, it needs to be 'and that accounts for the differences' unless there was a bit at the end, like 'and that, accounting for the differences, something else.'I'll take another look. Thanks for the input!

And great article. Playing devil's advocate a moment, though, version 5 may be a different sort of event.Yes, I considered mentioning that (and some of your other points) in the update, but was trying to crank it out before I left for work this morning. I'll take another look and see if I should add those points in. Thanks!

The only way I knew you had done an update was by reading this thread. Is it worth sending out an e-mail to tell everyone about the update?Since it had only been a few hours since the notification of the original article, I thought I would simply add the notification of the update to the next notification of a new article, which should be this weekend anyway. Those reading this thread just got an advance notice!

A bit over a million speakers. There is even a wikipedia in Nahuatl:Hmmm. Is there a user there named Iena?

[Monza]

Hmmm...From reading the different accounts of meeting Francine, it almost seems as if she is just making it up! What's next, her 85% psychic accuracy rate? I guess she's just making that up too?



...good work, Robert.

[geni]

Hmmm. Is there a user there named Iena?

No.

[JoeTheJuggler]

As for languages the spirit guide should be able to understand and speak ANY language. There must be a problem with that logic as Sylvia only speaks English.
That's something I never quite got. Since spirits don't have brains, they don't have Broca's Area or Wernicke's Area or any other brain structure that we know is used in language. (For that matter, the lack of vocal chords and respiration would make speaking impossible.)

What I'd like to see is during a reading when Sylvia makes a pronouncement, even one of her "Yes, I knew that" sort of utterances, for someone to say, "How did you know that? Did Francine tell you? If so, what words did she use? If she didn't use any specific words, then how do you know Francine 'told' you something? Was it just a general gut intuition that might or might not be true--which, of course, isn't the same thing as 'knowing' at all, is it?"

Back to the 85% accuracy claim--again, when she claims to know something, isn't that a claim of 100% accuracy? If she's anything less than 100% accurate, shouldn't she just claim that it's a hunch?

Of course, here's the reason why she can't be honest about any of this: it's a con game. And "con" is actually short for "confidence" game. She has to pretend to "see all" and "know all"--any admission that she is in doubt means she will lose the sucker's confidence. And THAT's all she's really trading in. The person being read has to play along actively accepting the premise that Sylvia has an infallible supernatural pipeline to information. If they thought that she's just a regular person spouting off whatever pops into her head (sometimes based on playing the percentages as in the case of when to say a missing child is probably dead), then the whole house of cards would collapse.

[sgf8]

What I'd like to see is during a reading when Sylvia makes a pronouncement, even one of her "Yes, I knew that" sort of utterances, for someone to say, "How did you know that? Did Francine tell you? If so, what words did she use? If she didn't use any specific words, then how do you know Francine 'told' you something? Was it just a general gut intuition that might or might not be true--which, of course, isn't the same thing as 'knowing' at all, is it?"


This reminds me of a Miss Marple movie "They do it with Mirrors". A kid is being interviewed by the police, he tells them he hears voices, sometimes one voice other times several voices. The policeman asks him what do the voices sound like, and the kid says he doesn't know. The police asks again, how can you tell one voice from another, does one voice have an accent, are they male or female. The kid doesn't get to answer because right then another murdered victim is discovered.

The kid and Browne have something in common, they are both faking hearing voices. I don't think either one thought it all the way through. I have known a few people who are always spewing BS, don't really know how to tell the truth and often get caught lying because you remember what they told you last time. That is the person Browne is (In my opinion)

Susan

[JoeTheJuggler]

The kid and Browne have something in common, they are both faking hearing voices. I don't think either one thought it all the way through.

You said it!

I suspect if you pressed a believer on the matter they'd admit that spirit guides don't "talk" to the medium or psychic in anything but a metaphoric way. In fact, even people into astrology will generally admit that it isn't so much that the apparent position and motions of heavenly bodies influence us as that the astrologer just uses them to access some kind of intuitive insight. Again, the only reason they're not being honest is that what I just said is not substantially different from saying that the astrologist is simply making stuff up.


That reminds me, does anyone have the quote where Sylvia said something like, "This is real--not something I just made up psychically"? I don't remember where I read that, and I'd love to have the correct quote. I remember it was tantamount to an admission that her psychic readings really are nothing but making stuff up.

[RSLancastr]

That reminds me, does anyone have the quote where Sylvia said something like, "This is real--not something I just made up psychically"? I don't remember where I read that, and I'd love to have the correct quote. I remember it was tantamount to an admission that her psychic readings really are nothing but making stuff up.
I had forgotten about that one!

Here's the thread where it is discussed:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=74865

[JoeTheJuggler]

Thanks, Robert.
Here's the line:

"Now the 666, and this is historically a fact, not something I've made up psychically, was Nero's address."

I never did see any citation on where that came from. You said you got it quoted in an e-mail someone sent to you. A couple of others said that heard her said it on Maury or Coast-to-Coast, but I think they were only talking about the 666 nonsense rather than her little Freudian slip.

Any of you Lexus-Nexus researchers able to spot it in a transcript?

[RSLancastr]

It was on a Montel episode, so it should be Lexis-Nexisable.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Wow, there is never a good time to take a week off to go on vacation. Look what happens when I'm gone. Good work, once again!

You know, I could swear I've heard a totally different story as to how she first met Francine! Whether it was watching Montel or flipping through her books or on Lexis Nexis, I don't know. I'll look for it if I get the chance.

I was actually watching the Nero episode, too, when it aired and I'm certain that's the exact quote.

The address thing caught my attention, too, but I knew what she was getting at cause I've heard it said before that 666 was actually a code for Nero, such as in newspaper articles about 6/06/06 when that came around and on the History Channel in a doc about Biblical prophesies.

And "the made up psychically", I think she just meant to say that it's a historical fact, not something she knows from Francine or from her psychic powers. Just her being inarticulate, as usual. I really don't think there's a smoking gun there.

[Hindmost]

Oh why couldn't she just have read comic books under the covers with the flashlight like normal kids.

glenn:rolleyes:

[Niobe]

I did a quick read....one question though on this comment: "My family watched the full manifestation, but I couldn't."

So others can her spirit guide? I'm not a SB/sprit guide expert by any streach...but I didn't think that was possible??Keep in mind, her family is a line of psychics going back 300 years! It's the genetics!!!

[Mr. Stick]

Why would Browne's grandmother have to explain to her all over again what a spirit guide is?

I suppose you don't have children. ;)