Vibrations

[Codger]

We recently took on a rescue Bernese Mountain Dog and one of the requirements was for a home check to ensure we were suitable owners. The very pleasant lady who checked us out also sold flower remedies for treating certain problems that some rescue dogs, depending on their background, may suffer from.

I don't know enough about these products to judge whether they do any good but my sceptical senses were tingling.

Anyhow, we have had the dog for three months now and although we are having some training issues, by and large all is well. We are experienced dog owners and are working hard (and logically!) to work through her problems.

Yesterday we had a follow up visit from the lady who asked us in great detail how we were getting on then proceeded to mix up some potions which she assured us would help. My first thought was how would we know if it was the potion or our ongoing training and care which was contributing to the dog's improved behaviour, but as my other half can be fairly woo-ish at times I kept quiet.

Anyway, the point of this rather long post is this: During the conversations we had with the potion lady she said something along the lines of scientists not knowing how these things work but it could well be something to do with energy fields (sceptic antenna on full alert). She then said "you know, it's like tuning forks, if you tap one and hold it next to another one (not touching) the energy will transfer and both will resonate at the same pitch". Now that sound like total bS to me but does anyone here know if it's possible?

Thanks in advance for any input and sorry for the long winded post.

[Normal Dude]

From a potion?

Sounds like BS. And not even specific BS, but instead non-specific BS. Did she mention the word quantum at any time perchance? :)

[Terry]

It is true about the tuning forks :)

[Boo]

The tuning fork picks up on the sound waves coming off the other fork. Rescue remedies are homeopathic "treatments" for dogs and cats for owners, unlike you, that can't be bothered to take necessary steps to properly train their pets.



Boo

[Magic 9-Ball]

During the conversations we had with the potion lady she said something along the lines of scientists not knowing how these things work but it could well be something to do with energy fields


"Scientists not knowing how these work" and "energy fields" are sure keywords for Woo. Sounds like she's taking something that really works (tuning forks transferring vibrations) and using it as an analogy for the "energy".

Is she charging you money for her flower potions? I hope not.

And kudos for helping to rescue the dogs as well!

[Codger]

Thanks for the replies. To Normal Dude, no she didn't mention quantum but I was fully expecting to hear chakras mentioned at some point but sadly not.

Boo - thanks for the info re tuning forks. I assumed that may be the case but didn't know for sure. Shame really as part of me really wanted to call her out on this stuff. I had the same suspicions about rescue remedies but like I said my other half buys into some of this (at £10 a pop) so it was prudent to keep quiet.

Funny thing, another potion she mixed up was for "emergencies" The instruction from the potion lady was to give this before the emergency arose. I did ask how we were supposed to know that an "emergency" was coming but all I got was a withering look and a "typical man, don't ask silly questions" attitude.

Infuriating!

[baron]

Replace "scientists don't understand how they work" with "scientists understand that they don't work" and there's your answer :)

[fuelair]

We recently took on a rescue Bernese Mountain Dog and one of the requirements was for a home check to ensure we were suitable owners. The very pleasant lady who checked us out also sold flower remedies for treating certain problems that some rescue dogs, depending on their background, may suffer from.

I don't know enough about these products to judge whether they do any good but my sceptical senses were tingling.

Anyhow, we have had the dog for three months now and although we are having some training issues, by and large all is well. We are experienced dog owners and are working hard (and logically!) to work through her problems.

Yesterday we had a follow up visit from the lady who asked us in great detail how we were getting on then proceeded to mix up some potions which she assured us would help. My first thought was how would we know if it was the potion or our ongoing training and care which was contributing to the dog's improved behaviour, but as my other half can be fairly woo-ish at times I kept quiet.

Anyway, the point of this rather long post is this: During the conversations we had with the potion lady she said something along the lines of scientists not knowing how these things work but it could well be something to do with energy fields (sceptic antenna on full alert). She then said "you know, it's like tuning forks, if you tap one and hold it next to another one (not touching) the energy will transfer and both will resonate at the same pitch". Now that sound like total bS to me but does anyone here know if it's possible?

Thanks in advance for any input and sorry for the long winded post.The tuning fork thing works IF the tuning forks are the same frequency (say an A440 starts vibrating near another A440 - as the sound waves pass the second, it resonates because it is designed to vibrate at that frequency. If the other is a C or G or F, etc., it will not vibrate.) That has no bearing on any kind of "energy field" even if she had described the fork thing correctly (which she did not since her implication was that, as example, a 440 could cause a 256 to vibrate at 440 and that is right out of it!!)

[Codger]

"Scientists not knowing how these work" and "energy fields" are sure keywords for Woo. Sounds like she's taking something that really works (tuning forks transferring vibrations) and using it as an analogy for the "energy".

Is she charging you money for her flower potions? I hope not.

And kudos for helping to rescue the dogs as well!

Yes M9B those keywords are what kicked off my spider sense, although I was fairly sceptical the minute she started pulling out all her phials. And yes she charges for this stuff - personally I'd have rejected it but like I said my OH (otherwise known as she who must be obeyed!) is prepared to believe in this stuff.

Thanks for your kind words - I'm not expert in animal behaviour but I know a bit about dogs and as a general rule I believe that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. All my dogs have been happy, healthy and well adjusted and I put this down to training, kindness, routines and proper socialisation and upbringing. Well anyway, it's worked so far.

[Tumblehome]

my OH (otherwise known as she who must be obeyed!)


Welcome to the forums, Mr. Rumpole! It's an honour. :)


Funny thing, another potion she mixed up was for "emergencies" The instruction from the potion lady was to give this before the emergency arose. I did ask how we were supposed to know that an "emergency" was coming but all I got was a withering look and a "typical man, don't ask silly questions" attitude.


So, Mother Superior doesn't have the patience to explain it to the person who will be administering the "medication". Her sensibilities need a good kick in the asphalt.

Since you're the one giving the dog this potion, I'm guessing you'll be at least partly liable for any harm it might do. I wonder how she'd take it if you asked her to sign a legal document (or at least legal-looking ;)) that lays all the liability on her.

And what fuelair said: Tuning forks are not a mystery to science. There's no need to invoke magical energy fields.

[rwguinn]

The tuning fork thing works IF the tuning forks are the same frequency (say an A440 starts vibrating near another A440 - as the sound waves pass the second, it resonates because it is designed to vibrate at that frequency. If the other is a C or G or F, etc., it will not vibrate.) That has no bearing on any kind of "energy field" even if she had described the fork thing correctly (which she did not since her implication was that, as example, a 440 could cause a 256 to vibrate at 440 and that is right out of it!!)
And amazingly enough, a properly tuned "A" string on the guitar will cause a 440 Hz tuning fork to vibrate when plucked, and vice versa

[godless dave]

I'm confident that scientists know how and why tuning forks vibrate. What would be really interesting is if they could somehow use this transfer of vibration to disturb an electromagnetic field, and then amplify the electromagnetic vibrations and use them to make a membrane vibrate in the same way, reproducing the sound. You could call the first part of the device, I don't know, something like "microphone" and the membrane that vibrates a "speaker".

Some scientist could probably make a lot of money if he or she could figure out how to do that.

[Jekyll]

We recently took on a rescue Bernese Mountain Dog and one of the requirements was for a home check to ensure we were suitable owners. The very pleasant lady who checked us out also sold flower remedies ...
scientists not knowing how these things work but it could well be something to do with energy fields (sceptic antenna on full alert). She then said "you know, it's like tuning forks, if you tap one and hold it next to another one (not touching) the energy will transfer and both will resonate at the same pitch".

Sounds like Bach flower remedies, in which case they do contain brandy, and you shouldn't be giving it to dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach_flower_remedies
http://skepdic.com/bachflower.html

[Codger]

Thanks for those links Jekyll - the potions we were sold seem identical to the Bach flower remedies so pretty well what I thought, pure woo.

I watched the woman mixing them and they do contain a tiny amount of brandy but I wouldn't have thought there was enough to do the dog any harm. Our last Bernese was terrified of fireworks and we used to give her a drop of brandy or whisky in a bowl of milk to calm her down. It seemed to work without any harmful effects.

[Psi Baba]

http://skepdic.com/bachflower.html
Bach flower therapy is a type of homeopathic aromatherapy...
Wow, it's doubly useless!

[Ysidro]

Wow, it's doubly useless!

Wait, does that mean it actually works? Like adding two negatives? *head explodes* :D

[arthwollipot]

And amazingly enough, a properly tuned "A" string on the guitar will cause a 440 Hz tuning fork to vibrate when plucked, and vice versa

Some instruments make use of sympathetic vibrations. The sitar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar) has a number of strings that are never directly plucked - they just vibrate in resonance with the strings that are plucked. This is what gives the sitar its distinctive drone.

Resonance occurs because one object vibrating causes air molecules to vibrate. The air molecules all vibrating in turn cause other objects to vibrate. It's the same thing as turning up the bass and hearing the glasses rattle on the shelf.

Just another pointless fact from the Pointless Fact Machine...

[eir_de_scania]

Funny thing, another potion she mixed up was for "emergencies" The instruction from the potion lady was to give this before the emergency arose. I did ask how we were supposed to know that an "emergency" was coming but all I got was a withering look and a "typical man, don't ask silly questions" attitude.
Tarot cards? Chrystal ball? Your Awesome Inner Power of Prediction feeling the Bad Vibrations?

[six7s]

Wait, does that mean it actually works? Like adding two negatives? *head explodes* :D
You can glue your head together Ysidro,

Negative * Negative = Positive
Negative + Negative = Negative

So, unless they have trained the homoeoeoepathic remedials to go forth and multiply (aka have frulations) with the aromatheraputic quantums or whatever they are, you're probably safe :)

[Ove]

Some instruments make use of sympathetic vibrations. The sitar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar) has a number of strings that are never directly plucked - they just vibrate in resonance with the strings that are plucked. This is what gives the sitar its distinctive drone.

Resonance occurs because one object vibrating causes air molecules to vibrate. The air molecules all vibrating in turn cause other objects to vibrate. It's the same thing as turning up the bass and hearing the glasses rattle on the shelf.

Just another pointless fact from the Pointless Fact Machine...

This is also what causes a glass to shatter when an opera singer hits a certain note (or so goes the myth). The myth was that it was the high "C" but in fact you have to hit the same tone as the glass itself will emit. Moisten your fingers and run them around the top and you will hear a tone. Sing that tone, with lot of power, close to the glass and the glass will shatter. The Mythbusters demonstrated it with the help of a Rock singer. It nearly cost him his voice though. ;)


PS sorry for one more side-rack :)

[Normal Dude]

This is also what causes a glass to shatter when an opera singer hits a certain note (or so goes the myth). The myth was that it was the high "C" but in fact you have to hit the same tone as the glass itself will emit. Moisten your fingers and run them around the top and you will hear a tone. Sing that tone, with lot of power, close to the glass and the glass will shatter. The Mythbusters demonstrated it with the help of a Rock singer. It nearly cost him his voice though. ;)


PS sorry for one more side-rack :)

I remember Antonio Banderas managed to do it on Mythbusters, he had one heck of an opera voice. :)

[Ysidro]

You can glue your head together Ysidro,

Negative * Negative = Positive
Negative + Negative = Negative

So, unless they have trained the homoeoeoepathic remedials to go forth and multiply (aka have frulations) with the aromatheraputic quantums or whatever they are, you're probably safe :)

I never claimed to be good at Math! :D