Information Technology Business Myths [Archive]

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 09:58 AM

Over the years, I've had the pleasure and pain of being the top IT guy in most businesses I've been involved in. I've seen vendors sing their siren songs of buzzwords, crooning to CEO's and Presidents; seen those with a little bit of knowledge demonstrate the truth that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing", and I've seen states of panic set in based on newspaper articles and magazine reports.

Here's a few of the IT Business Woo things I've encountered:

1) We're 100% secure, and variations - such as "Why aren't we 100% secure?", and "Make us 100% secure!"

I cringe whenever I hear any of those, because it's impossible. Literally impossible, because most companies won't either spend the money needed to make an environment virtually impregnable... or won't live the the restrictions and overhead involved in ensuring that kind of strong security is in place.

And even if all of that weren't true, security is only as good as the most trustworthy employee; hence the value of auditing and tracking employee activity. If you can't stop them, you can at least catch them and put an end to it.

And god save me from the fly-by-night security firms out there that promise 100% protection. ARRRGH!

2) We have/don't need a Disaster Recovery plan.

I have worked for one - exactly ONE - company that had a working and annually tested Disaster Recovery plan. (Required by law - it was a Credit Union.) For the rest, I'm constantly asked to develop one everywhere I go. Most companies that claim to have a disaster recovery plan have something on paper that's never been tested - and, while looks good rhetorically, is utterly flawed and impossible to execute. By far, the majority of companies take the old "head in the sand" approach... and when I'm asked to develop a plan, I do a rough draft... and explain the costs involved in terms of equipment, testing, and so forth.

EVERYONE needs a testable and tested DR plan; and everyone wants one - until the realize what the cost is. Worse, I am compelled by ethics and honesty to inform my erstwhile management team that a Disaster Recovery plan for IT isn't good enough - they need a business recovery plan as well. That's when the questions start... and when the eyes start to glaze over as I begin to explain what's involved.

So... when management says "We want Disaster Recovery!"... it's usually wishful thinking and not a determined policy decision.

3) "I.T. is a necessary evil, nothing but overhead."

That's true - if the management team has no vision. I have often encountered this attitude, and tried to demonstrate repeatedly that it doesn't have to be the case - that when I.T. is utilized as a utility, then that statement is perfectly true. But if embraced, I.T. can give corporations competitive advantages - we can provide services and abilities that can allow the sales force to beat the competition to the leads, close the sales faster; we can help control costs, reduce labor overhead, provide critical strategic information to the key decision-makers, provide ways to track marketing changes, and so forth. All that's required is two things - vision on the part of senior management and investment to back up that vision. Sadly, that's usually exactly what's missing.

4) "Everything should be automated!"

:dl:

This has to be the most frequent myth I've heard uttered by at least one manager in every company! Everything should NOT be automated! There's no inherent benefit to automating a process - people should always weigh the benefits versus the cost. Every single time. And this particular attitude exists inside of I.T. as well as elsewhere... I can't count the number of times I've been looked upon as either a fool or a heretic when someone suggests automating a process (where the benefit isn't self-evident), and I respond with "Can I please see a business plan justifying this?"... the assumption is always that automation is self-justifying.

One person asked me to have custom software systems written which would taken up 250+ hours of programming time... all to save exactly 2 hours of labor per month on the part of a clerical person. The latter came out in the business plan; and of course, the request was politely - but firmly - turned down.

Anyway, these are a few of the wooish beliefs out there I've encountered between management and I.T. :)

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 10:42 AM

5) Policies in place for the protection of data/etc. do not apply to the CEO, and they of course, should have access to whatever crap they want, not have their email scanned for viruses, not have to have security policies in place on their account and/or should themselves have an administrator account.

I love this one. What do you do when you bust the head of the company you work for with half a gig of porn in his email, because you saw an email account half a gig in size and wondered why the size restrictions weren't in place...

(eta: the above scenario is one I faced when running exchange servers at one company.)

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 10:55 AM

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 11:00 AM

Oh, god, yes. That's one of them, that's for sure, Ducky. :)

I also love "Why can't I have a copy of Access so I can write my own applications?"

:D

Now... assuming that person COULD write (or learn to write) in Access... why would we want to let them create some kind of weirdly written amateurish application that will then predictably become integral and critical to the department... to have it foisted off on I.T. later on, when they move on - or when it becomes too complex for for an amateur to support?

Hmmm... Gee... I wonder.

Yet I get this from managers - SENIOR managers - all the time!

Oh yes, that fall under the heading of "I can do it in access, then the whole company should do it in access, and why would we need a MySQL server?"

I hate that one.

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 11:08 AM

Conversely, there is a myth among some IT depts that it is not a service industry. Customer service skills apparently are not needed when running a multi-tiered helpdesk. Also, there seems to be a huge lack of QA monitoring for those helpdesks.

...and yes, there should be. I once overheard someone on the helpdesk berating a user for ignorance of networking functions that were outside that user's job capacity. No, secretaries don't need to know how to refresh their IP address, fix their file sharing, understand why they can't check email from home, or install a network printer and while it helps if they do, it's still helpdesk's job to service these needs.

Though, one more email one:

It is ok, and completely not a problem to set up a gmail account to have your email forwarded to (and set the gmail to be able to send as that work email account) if you have been told by IT you do not have approved permissions to have a vpn to check your email from home with.

That one was a huge problem at a law firm a friend works at.

tsg

23rd August 2007, 11:39 AM

Worse, I am compelled by ethics and honesty to inform my erstwhile management team that a Disaster Recovery plan for IT isn't good enough - they need a business recovery plan as well. That's when the questions start... and when the eyes start to glaze over as I begin to explain what's involved.

I have just been informed that every bit on every machine is to be backed up to an off site location nightly in case there is a fire in the office. What we do to protect all the paper lying around here is anyone's guess.

Charlie Monoxide

23rd August 2007, 11:52 AM

True story: I once worked (early 1990's) at a government agency doing design, development and support of some small online systems. One lackey was hired by the director (we all suspected he was the director's illegitimate son) to run reports and download data. The guy was an absolute bonehead and surrounded himself with lots of equipment that he had no clue how to use.

At a high level meeting, we were discussing how to improve performance of some legacy systems (running on Vax's). The bone-head stood up in this meeting and declared all we needed to do was a "bubble sort".

Charlie (eyes still glazed over) Monoxide

JonnyFive

23rd August 2007, 12:29 PM

Oh yes, that fall under the heading of "I can do it in access, then the whole company should do it in access, and why would we need a MySQL server?"

I hate that one.

Access is the ultimate double-edged sword of the database world. While it allows relatively easy deployment of fairly powerful small/medium-scale database-based apps, it also tends to let the users do far too much.

I designed several Access apps to be used in our underwriting department here, and I put considerable care into making sure that the end users didn't have direct access to stuff they didn't need access to. Also, I've found a lot of people are really unused to dealing with Access... they treat it like Excel, or something and end up messing things up because they simply have no idea of how a database works.

Hokulele

23rd August 2007, 12:43 PM

I also love "Why can't I have a copy of Access so I can write my own applications?"

When they put in the request for Access, give them a copy of InfoPath, and an innocent look.

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 12:51 PM

I have just been informed that every bit on every machine is to be backed up to an off site location nightly in case there is a fire in the office. What we do to protect all the paper lying around here is anyone's guess.

Chant this: "Business Continuity Planning is NOT Disaster Recovery!"

Repeat as necessary until your management understands. Be prepared for a long siege. :D

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 12:57 PM

Access is the ultimate double-edged sword of the database world. While it allows relatively easy deployment of fairly powerful small/medium-scale database-based apps, it also tends to let the users do far too much.

I designed several Access apps to be used in our underwriting department here, and I put considerable care into making sure that the end users didn't have direct access to stuff they didn't need access to. Also, I've found a lot of people are really unused to dealing with Access... they treat it like Excel, or something and end up messing things up because they simply have no idea of how a database works.

Yes perhaps the bumper sticker should read:

"Access /= Excel"

JonnyFive

23rd August 2007, 12:58 PM

When they put in the request for Access, give them a copy of InfoPath, and an innocent look.

Better yet, give them a copy of that stupid MS Works database software. :D

"Suuure, it's just like Access. Look, it's made by Microsoft and everything!"

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 12:59 PM

Access is the ultimate double-edged sword of the database world. While it allows relatively easy deployment of fairly powerful small/medium-scale database-based apps, it also tends to let the users do far too much.

I designed several Access apps to be used in our underwriting department here, and I put considerable care into making sure that the end users didn't have direct access to stuff they didn't need access to. Also, I've found a lot of people are really unused to dealing with Access... they treat it like Excel, or something and end up messing things up because they simply have no idea of how a database works.

When they put in the request for Access, give them a copy of InfoPath, and an innocent look.

Just thank your lucky stars it wasn't Notes.

*shudders*

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 01:00 PM

Just thank your lucky stars it wasn't Notes.

*shudders*

Lotus Notes is the bane of my existence.

JonnyFive

23rd August 2007, 01:03 PM

Just thank your lucky stars it wasn't Notes.

*shudders*

I have never had the displeasure of using that particular piece of software. My mom (a DBA at a marketing company) says that even the IBM people she deals with don't use Lotus Notes. She isn't joking.

Ever try that freeware OpenOffice.org database? God, that thing's a piece of crap. Think of a really junky, substandard copy of Access that doesn't work very well, runs slowly, and crashes constantly when you try to make it do stuff.

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 01:06 PM

I have never had the displeasure of using that particular piece of software. My mom (a DBA at a marketing company) says that even the IBM people she deals with don't use Lotus Notes. She isn't joking.

Ever try that freeware OpenOffice.org database? God, that thing's a piece of crap. Think of a really junky, substandard copy of Access that doesn't work very well, runs slowly, and crashes constantly when you try to make it do stuff.

Yeah that is a piece of crap. Put that, notes, and access in the same dept and you have a trifecta of evil.

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 01:08 PM

I have another myth that you folks are going to love...

"What do you mean you can read my email?"

Yes, there are still people out there that think their email is THEIRS... even if they're sending it on a company PC. And they always, always, always look shocked when they are told that we caught their letter to you-know-who, and that sexually oriented emails are most emphatically against the company policy and IT Usage policy. You know, the one they SIGNED when they JOINED?

It's amazing. They sometimes actually threaten to get a lawyer for invasion of privacy.

Marquis de Carabas

23rd August 2007, 01:08 PM

6 (or whatever bloody number we're on)) No, your being a Department Director does not mean that your pressing need to learn how to change the font in your new terminal emulator is more important than a fried hard drive.

Hokulele

23rd August 2007, 01:09 PM

Yeah that is a piece of crap. Put that, notes, and access in the same dept and you have a trifecta of evil.

Then link them to a GIS system for maximum giggles!

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 01:11 PM

Then link them to a GIS system for maximum giggles!

we should start a thread entitled "Design the absolute worst IT environment possible."

nw843x

23rd August 2007, 01:13 PM

The company I work for finally got rid of Lotus. Crapulence of the highest order.

Unfortunately our company still has no concept of redundancy. Next to my monitor is a WYSE dummy terminal, but our server and 10 other branches server is 12 hours away. Guess what happens when you have a power failure at the main branch? 300+ people phoning the IT guys wondering why they have no email and 'net access.

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 01:16 PM

tsg

23rd August 2007, 01:18 PM

Chant this: "Business Continuity Planning is NOT Disaster Recovery!"

Repeat as necessary until your management understands. Be prepared for a long siege. :D

My response was, "Okay. So if we have a fire, all the data will be on the off site backup machine. Then what?"

Blank stares.

Marquis de Carabas

23rd August 2007, 01:19 PM

Which brings us to the next myth:

All things happen on the local terminal, and servers only exist way out there on the internet.

Which breaks off on a tangent to...

I can download anything I want because if I mess up my computer, well, it's just one computer.

That is a paraphrase, but I was actually told this. Never have so few words contained so much error.

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 01:24 PM

Another one of my favorites is ...

"Why do you have to kick us off the systems at [fill in the time]? Why can't we keep working? You should be able to back up the systems while we work! I know, because I've read that it's possible!"

Now... of *course* we can back up some systems while work is in progress; but the real reason we kick people off is so we have a hard time and date that we know - absolutely know - the state of the data and transactions. And these days, systems are so frequently tied together in complex ways that you need to be conservative and grab a copy while nobody's changing things.

Try explaining THAT to someone who left a project until the last minute, and is killing themselves to get it done on time. Grudging acceptance is the best you can hope for.

JonnyFive

23rd August 2007, 01:25 PM

Which breaks off on a tangent to...

I can download anything I want because if I mess up my computer, well, it's just one computer.

That is a paraphrase, but I was actually told this. Never have so few words contained so much error.

This reminds me of when I was working as an IT intern/contractor/whatever while I was in high school.

A lot of the people where I worked had those stupid Windows 95 themes that were popular back in the late 90's, with lots of animated crap, special cursors, sounds, etc. Fortunately I didn't have to do much tech support work on personal computer (mostly database stuff), but when I did I noticed how hard it was to use the computers, as they were bogged down with all kinds of junk on them.

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 01:33 PM

"Why is this website blocked?"

"Because you don't need access to Victoria's Secret."

"Yes I do!"

"Why?"

"Because... because... well, because I need something from there for business purposes!"

:boggled:

True conversation.

Hokulele

23rd August 2007, 01:36 PM

Which brings us to the next myth:

All things happen on the local terminal, and servers only exist way out there on the internet.

And the related myth, all we need to do is put Gigabit network cards in all the computers.

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 01:38 PM

Once found on a computer I serviced the history of what sites had been surfed. found one from a website called "redright.com" which, back in 1998 was a website dedicated to, well... their tag line on the website was "Double Wide, Elbow Deep." You figure out what it was about.

The list of websites people go to from work is just amazing. Do they not realize we can track this? Or that it can get them fired?

"Why is this website blocked?"

"Because you don't need access to Victoria's Secret."

"Yes I do!"

"Why?"

"Because... because... well, because I need something from there for business purposes!"

:boggled:

True conversation.

nw843x

23rd August 2007, 01:39 PM

I like being asked "well you have a computer at home, maybe you can fix my email" .... ummm ya see I play World of Warcraft and I'm not an IT guy. I can probably fix a paper jam in a printer but to figure out why everyone else can access their email but you is beyond me.
Trying to explain that even if I knew how to fix your email problem, I still do not have access to anything server side as out IT dept doesn't want anyone but them adjusting settings etc .... is like talking to a brick wall.

Marquis de Carabas

23rd August 2007, 01:45 PM

I like being asked "well you have a computer at home, maybe you can fix my email" .... ummm ya see I play World of Warcraft and I'm not an IT guy. I can probably fix a paper jam in a printer but to figure out why everyone else can access their email but you is beyond me.
This is sort of the converse of one of my biggest gripes: "well, you're the IT guy, so I can bring you my laptop from home and you'll fix it?"

No, not while I'm doing my job, I won't. If you'd like me to take it home myself and work on it, I will, and I will charge you for my time.

Ducky

23rd August 2007, 02:06 PM

This is sort of the converse of one of my biggest gripes: "well, you're the IT guy, so I can bring you my laptop from home and you'll fix it?"

No, not while I'm doing my job, I won't. If you'd like me to take it home myself and work on it, I will, and I will charge you for my time.

QFT.

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 02:08 PM

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 02:17 PM

Next business myth for corporate non-IT management types -

"Technology is always getting cheaper!"

No, technology isn't getting cheaper, not really, and it hasn't for a while. What's happened is that the costs have been shifted from up-front purchases to maintenance fees, annual licensing costs, and - in terms of equipment - an accelerated frequency of replacement due to spiraling costs for supporting outdated equipment under contract.

PC's, included - right now, the conventional wisdom is to replace 1/3 of your PC's every year, and depreciate them over a three year period. ONE THIRD... when the ones being replaced are still used for the same applications that run perfectly fine.

Of course, the opposite is also true... executives that refuse to replace aging equipment, and end up screaming at the butcher bills when they're told that their 1,000 7 year-old PC's won't support the $330,000 software system they just purchased...

tsg

23rd August 2007, 02:17 PM

"Why do you have to kick us off the systems at [fill in the time]? Why can't we keep working? You should be able to back up the systems while we work! I know, because I've read that it's possible!"

Related Myth: The backup/upgrade/maintenance will go faster if you complain about it a lot.

"Can't you make this go faster?"

Responses vary, based on my mood:

"Yes, I can. I'm doing it the slow way just to piss you off."

"Sure. Just flip that big red switch over there that says 'High Speed'. There isn't one? Want to know why? Who would turn it off?"

"Relax. Goatsex.com will still be there when the servers are back up."

jmercer

23rd August 2007, 02:27 PM

Another fine myth:

"I need a faster computer."

"Why?"

"The Internet is too slow, and I need things to run faster for my searches on it"

"No, that's not a function of your PC - that's how fast your connection to the Internet is."

"You're wrong. My PC at home is a much faster model than this, and the Internet really pops for me there!"

"Uh... yeah. That's because you have a high-speed cable connection at home, but we only have a T1 here... and it's shared by 300 people."

"I told you, it's not the connection, it's the PC! You're an IT guy, you should know this stuff!"

"Yessir. My mistake sir. We'll get you a faster PC ASAP."

The perceived speed of the PC is inversely proportional to the patience of the user. :D

Darat

23rd August 2007, 02:34 PM

A Myth

Them: Our global NT 3.5 standard image is fine for your department.

Us:No it isn't - we can't even view many web pages.

Them: You shouldn't be viewing websites.

Us:Our department develops the bloody company website you morons and we can't even view the blasted live site on the damed and twice blasted installation you provide!

Hokulele

23rd August 2007, 02:36 PM

Next business myth for corporate non-IT management types -

"Technology is always getting cheaper!"

Training costs? You mean we should have budgeted for those?

Ohmer

23rd August 2007, 02:51 PM

Conversely, there is a myth among some IT depts that it is not a service industry. Customer service skills apparently are not needed when running a multi-tiered helpdesk.

Agreed to a point. As someone who does does internal tech support I would argue that my customers are not the employees I support directly. My customers are the people they serve. It's a subtle but important distinction. Most of the time, making the staff happy will make the people they serve happy. That is not always the case. That leads to my myths:

I have a difficult task that involves a computer so you should do it for me. Let me know when you are finished.

Though I use this computer all day to do my job, I should not be required to know anything about how it works.

Since my job involves a computer, I shouldn't have to tell you IT people how I normally do things. You should already know.

tsg

23rd August 2007, 02:51 PM

Yet another I can't seem to disabuse my boss of: Any task, when done on a computer, only takes five minutes.

And another: "Download" means "do something with this data" including print, burn to CD, email, archive etc. No, he does not specify which.

Ad infinitum: "As soon as you can" means anything from "when you have a chance" to "drop everything and get right on it immediately." No, he does not specify which.

jimlintott

23rd August 2007, 02:59 PM

Can you guys confirm this?

The more a user claims to know about computers the more apt they are to screw things up.

(Normal users, not highly skilled IT professionals. ;))

Marquis de Carabas

23rd August 2007, 03:38 PM

Can you guys confirm this?

The more a user claims to know about computers the more apt they are to screw things up.
This is absolutely true. My slogan is "Hell is helpful users".

six7s

23rd August 2007, 04:58 PM

This is absolutely true. My slogan is "Hell is helpful users".

I like this:

Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users?
Clifford Stoll

and

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots.

So far, the Universe is winning.
Rick Cook

gnome

23rd August 2007, 05:28 PM

A corollary to that is when the cooperative if slightly clueless user suddenly decides to put their more knowledgeable spouse on the line. It instantly changes from the customer carefully doing exactly what you tell them, to questioning every move.

The_Animus

23rd August 2007, 06:05 PM

Wolfman

23rd August 2007, 06:26 PM

My favorite IT myth:

There's actually a difference between a group of women with PMS complaining about men, and a group of IT people complaining about their clients.

:decool:

six7s

23rd August 2007, 07:21 PM

My favorite IT myth:

There's actually a difference between a group of women with PMS complaining about men, and a group of IT people complaining about their clients.
I think there are subtle differences
do {

rantAndRave(universe.all);

} while ((cycle.startDate >= today) && (cycle.endDate <= today));

do {

rantAndRave(hSapiens.users);

} while ((users.hasPulse >= 1) && (me.income <= infinity + 1));

:p

Wolfman

23rd August 2007, 07:31 PM

...and that brilliant response has earned you a TLA nomination :D

gnome

23rd August 2007, 10:11 PM

Well to be fair the helpdesk or tech support doesn't always do a very good job.

I guess you could call me a user. I know how to solve a great many of my own computer problems, but I am no expert. Nonetheless half the time I talk to tech support I have to repeatedly tell them that their 'solution' is wrong specifically because it is. I tell them I don't think this is the problem, they tell me it is, I follow the steps, and nothing is fixed.

One time I had to go back to online tech support 4 or 5 times and every single solution they gave me was wrong. So we sent it off to the geek squad to fix. Go figure my initial assumption about the problem was correct.

I've been on the other side of that, too. There are good and bad technical support outfits. If I notice I've received someone clueless, rather than argue I tend to drudge my way through the useless things they suggest. "No, that didn't work either" and let my persistence and their failure do the work of my arguing instead. It's slower, but less stressful.

Hokulele

23rd August 2007, 10:21 PM

Leif Roar

23rd August 2007, 11:43 PM

"And the rest is a simple matter of programming."

And, related to the above:

"Quality assurance? Oh, you mean testing?"

EHLO

24th August 2007, 12:23 AM

"We don't need Configuration Management because the requirements aren't going to change..."

This was actually said to me by a senior manager during an interview for a development position... I so want to say which company it was!

malbui

24th August 2007, 01:00 AM

Commonly-held positions that I have encountered:

"It's a waste of time testing the simple changes. There's no way I'm going to screw up writing 20 lines of code"

"Why do we bother with the Dev and Test environments? Little tweaks like that can be performed directly in production"

"Maintaining an audit trail of changes put into production is just an admin overhead"

"What's the point of getting users to test and approve changes? I did the development with their spec in front of me, so obviously it's going to (a) work perfectly and (b) meet their requirements"

"If I spend three months developing a mission-critical financial model and store it in the depths of my hard drive, IT should automatically know about it and adjust their backup procedures to include it"

"If we've tidied up security at the application and operating system levels, we can ignore the database level as no-one would ever think to modify data directly"

hcmom

24th August 2007, 01:15 AM

Long last week at your job, jm?

:halo:

six7s

24th August 2007, 02:21 AM

http://www.amon.co.nz/images/extremeProgramming.GIF

Corpse Cruncher

24th August 2007, 02:32 AM

I've been on the other side of that, too. There are good and bad technical support outfits. If I notice I've received someone clueless, rather than argue I tend to drudge my way through the useless things they suggest. "No, that didn't work either" and let my persistence and their failure do the work of my arguing instead. It's slower, but less stressful.

I agree with gnome. I have also seen the good, the bad and the costly. The trouble with letting somebody who has as much clue as you do fumble, is the cost. That said I have had some gems who were worth the cost and more besides.

Saying thank you and please always has earned me brownie points in that respect.

I find the most problem with IT is if you have a user who is clueless and one who knows slightly more than them. User-useless normally creates the problems and then tells user-with braincell, how to fix it.:rolleyes: Or worse doesn't listen when the solutions are fully explained to them.

My ex-boss has his laptop full of viruses and a very nasty Trojan and at least one of those nasty thing that record what you type on a keyboard. Not only did I shut his system off the net (at work) I gave him the full page data with what was recommended to do. He had no anti-virus, no firewall and no spy-ware protection. He let them run out.

He then told me I didn't have a clue, his 15 year old lad did, same 15 year old lad who hasn't and does not do IT; just plays games. The idiot was keeping all the data etc as is. When I started working all the computers were heavily infected and nothing was updated.

I am no expert but even I know the basics and what to do if infected.

Last I know the idiots laptop was still infected, as he sent me an e-mail with an attached virus after he sacked me.

At least I know my Anti-virus worked.:D

JonnyFive

24th August 2007, 06:49 AM

(snip)

My ex-boss has his laptop full of viruses and a very nasty Trojan and at least one of those nasty thing that record what you type on a keyboard. Not only did I shut his system off the net (at work) I gave him the full page data with what was recommended to do. He had no anti-virus, no firewall and no spy-ware protection. He let them run out.

He then told me I didn't have a clue, his 15 year old lad did, same 15 year old lad who hasn't and does not do IT; just plays games. The idiot was keeping all the data etc as is. When I started working all the computers were heavily infected and nothing was updated.

I am no expert but even I know the basics and what to do if infected.

Last I know the idiots laptop was still infected, as he sent me an e-mail with an attached virus after he sacked me.

At least I know my Anti-virus worked.:D

:D Your ex-boss sounds like kind of a jackoff, to be honest.

That reminds me of another myth I can't freaking stand. Not so much IT business-specific, but: Kids know lots about computers! More than adults!

Uh... no. Your ten year old might be able to do more than your stupid ass on the computer, but that doesn't make him/her a genius computer whiz. All right, they can install programs and run their games. They can use email and various programs. Great, that's great. I knew how to turn on my Nintendo set when I was a kid too.

But that doesn't make them qualified to troubleshoot your computer over a professional, or someone with extensive knowledge in the specifics of the computer system.

Does your kid understand system security? Application permissions? Network protocols? System configuration settings? Database conventions? Hardware troubleshooting? Data recovery? No, they probably don't. Because they're a goddamn child who hasn't had time to study those things!

Ohmer

24th August 2007, 11:07 AM

That reminds me of another myth I can't freaking stand. Not so much IT business-specific, but: Kids know lots about computers! More than adults!

That one really pisses me off too. I was one of those kids that knew more about computers than most adults 25 years ago. You think I just stopped learning? Having a myspace page and an ipod does not make you a computer expert.

Ohmer

24th August 2007, 11:12 AM

My favorite IT myth:
There's actually a difference between a group of women with PMS complaining about men, and a group of IT people complaining about their clients.

This is completely untrue! We eat a lot less chocolate and ice cream.

Unless of course it is a group of IT women with PMS complaining about male clients. Just walk away slowly.

JonnyFive

24th August 2007, 11:14 AM

That one really pisses me off too. I was one of those kids that knew more about computers than most adults 25 years ago. You think I just stopped learning? Having a myspace page and an ipod does not make you a computer expert.

Exactly. When I was a kid, I started to learn to code, learned to set up DOS boots and crap, troubleshoot hardware, and learned to use Access well enough to design code-based complex reporting forms when I was 15-16.

But there were loads of things I didn't know. I sure knew a lot more than many adults, but any adult with extended computer knowledge would have understood far more than I did about computer problem-solving.

Fortunately, I grew up in a household where my dad was a mathematician who had used computers since back when they were on punch cards, so I was never of the mind that all adults were computer-illiterate morons.

JonnyFive

24th August 2007, 11:17 AM

This is completely untrue! We eat a lot less chocolate and ice cream.

(snip)

I know enough about IT to know you're a lying liar that lies. :D

If you'd said "we consume a lot more coffee" I might've believed you.

jmercer

24th August 2007, 12:01 PM

Here's another myth - the "Five-Year Technology Strategy Plan". The following scenario is true, and has played out (with varying verbiage) at least three times in my career:

"Mercer, I want you to create a 5-year technology strategy plan that will permit us to grow, while not incurring abandonment of our software and hardware... or having unexpected major costs. I need this in time for the board meeting in three weeks."

"Yes, sir, it'll be tough to do that quickly - but I'm up for it! I'll need a copy of the 5-year corporate business plan, though."

"What? Why?"

"Well, sir, in order to anticipate our needs, I have to have some idea of what the company intends to do for the next five years."

"Well, we intend to grow at least [insert percentage here] per year. That's all you need to know."

"Um... no, actually, I need to know more than that."

"Like what?"

"Well... for example, are we planning any acquisitions? Creating new office locations? What's the anticipated employee hiring increase over next five years? Are we going to stay with our core business, or diversify? And what about international, are we going to develop an international presence? I'm sure you get the idea - this is the kind of information I need to make a plan that makes sense and that allows me to project costs."

"You don't need all of that! I don't see how this has any bearing on your technology decisions!"

"But... sir... it affects everything! What kind of telecommunications contracts I choose, what kind of servers, how many PC's, laptops and printers, licensing volume and costs, network equipment models and types, I.T. support staff numbers and so forth. It affects virtually everything we do!"

"Look. Just put something together, all right?"

(A silent pause here as I consider this while gazing at my equally silent manager.)

"You don't have a five-year business plan, do you?"

(Glare directed at me)

"Just go do it, ok? I'm busy!"

And thus the five-year technology strategy plan is born; my resume is updated; and I go forth looking for my next career opportunity. :)

Miss Anthrope

24th August 2007, 12:06 PM

Jmercer: This is in empathy:

:hb:

But also, in regards to updated resume:

:wave1

tsg

24th August 2007, 12:19 PM

And thus the five-year technology strategy plan is born; my resume is updated; and I go forth looking for my next career opportunity. :)

I hope you included the cost of training your replacement.

jmercer

24th August 2007, 02:29 PM

Jmercer: This is in empathy:

:hb:

But also, in regards to updated resume:

:wave1

Thanks, Miss A. :)

I have a few simple rules:

1) If I'm not appreciated, I'm history
2) If I don't like the rules of the game... change teams
3) If I can't see how I'm valuable... neither can anyone else

Frankly, I think of jobs these days as long-term consulting assignments with benefits.

I hope you included the cost of training your replacement.

Nah. Let them find out the hard way. :D

Blue Mountain

24th August 2007, 03:00 PM

Here's one:
"You're a good programmer. I'm sure you can handle systems analysis, too!" (Actually, I can, but that's not true of every coder.)

Or another:
"You're a good programmer and system analyst! How come you aren't bucking for a promotion into management?"

That's very true for me: I'm a good programmer and systems analyst, but I didn't want to do management--especially in a large multi-national corporation. I much prefer working with computers. Part of being a good manager is being a good people person, and I'm not.

Where I am now, the entire company consists of nine people including me, of which programmers currently number four. I'm the second most senior person in the company after its president (and founder), and, age-wise, one of the older employees. But I find I'm constantly deferring decisions on things like hardware purchases, networking, and finding an outside hosting company to other people, even though I participate earnestly in the discussions leading up to the decisions. Partly because I'm not too comfortable doing that, and partly because I'm having too much fun designing our flagship system and programming it.

Blue Mountain

24th August 2007, 03:02 PM

Thanks, Miss A. :)
Frankly, I think of jobs these days as long-term consulting assignments with benefits.

That's actually a good way of seeing things. But I absolutely detest the process of looking for work. :boxedin:

quixotecoyote

24th August 2007, 03:53 PM

Reading this thread makes me wish I had marketable skills.

Oh well, back to academia.

dudalb

24th August 2007, 03:59 PM

Lotus Notes is the bane of my existence.

Testify,Brother,Testify!
I simply do not understand why so many IT's in the US Government are so high on Notes.

Faydra

24th August 2007, 04:45 PM

Forgive me for straying a bit from 'the myth' to tell this story.

Its 1989 and I'm fresh out of college with a comp sci degree. I go to work for an IT consulting firm and my boss sends me out to see a client who's server would not boot.

The guy I have to see is 114 years old if he's a day and makes it quite clear that women should be in the kitchen baking and taking care of the kids and not out pretending they can fix complicated server problems.

I open the box up and have a look. It is COVERED with dust. Literally. I take a deep breath, close my eyes and blow. (no compressed air, dammit). I close the box back up, turn it on and it boots fine.

This idiot looks at me and says.. "Well, we'll be sure and call you when our computer needs another blow job".

I kid you not.

The_Animus

24th August 2007, 05:19 PM

Wow...

Ysidro

24th August 2007, 07:40 PM

I read all this and I still want a full time IT job. What's that say about me?

jmercer

24th August 2007, 07:53 PM

rjh01

24th August 2007, 08:35 PM

Dinosaurs are not extinct. Birds and other reptiles are descendants of dinosaurs.

drkitten

25th August 2007, 10:55 AM

Dinosaurs are not extinct. Birds and other reptiles are descendants of dinosaurs.

William the Conqueror is not extinct; I am a descendant of his.

Hmmm. I don't think your statement makes any more sense than mine.

Foolmewunz

25th August 2007, 11:32 AM

My personal Lotus Notes story.

I work for a large German company (50,000 people worldwide). They have had the vision to have a single operating system installed globally for all our day to day shipping needs (and that's our business, so it's a great move), but never designed a sales or customer service module into the green screen applications. So it was left to sales to come up with something on their own. The decision, including email, was to go with Lotus Notes.

I'm not directly related to the sales side, but since I handle global and strategic key accounts, they wanted the daily input from my operational and service teams put into their system. (Totally stand-alone, no cross reference to statistics, billings, gross profits, yields, etc....)

In a meeting in Switzerland the conversation went something like:

Me: Look, LN really sucks. Because you've linked the very wordy database with the email, we wait thirty to forty-five minutes for the damned thing to replicate.
Klaus: That's needed because of the volume of data. If it is such a problem, why is it so popular?
Me: With whom?
Klaus: IBM uses it throughout their company and they're much larger than we are!
Me: Ummmm..... could you think of a reason THEY might be doing that?
Room: (Derisive laughter)
Klaus: Well, the German Army also uses it.
Me: And they've been so successful for the past hundred years!

Charlie Monoxide

25th August 2007, 11:56 AM

William the Conqueror is not extinct; I am a descendant of his.

Hmmm. I don't think your statement makes any more sense than mine.

According to Dawkins theory in "The Selfish Gene", everything is going as planned ....

Charlie (direct line to Charlemagne here) Monoxide

six7s

25th August 2007, 05:44 PM

A pre-requisite to securing a position in middle management:
a library of OS, suite and app manuals

A pre-requisite to securing a position in senior management:
the copies must remain in as-new condtion
Myths?

cyborg

25th August 2007, 06:14 PM

In case anyone doesn't know it...

www.c2.com

Great wiki for discussion of software patterns - extending into the business realm and beyond!

gnome

26th August 2007, 12:37 PM

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

26th August 2007, 12:47 PM

This idiot looks at me and says.. "Well, we'll be sure and call you when our computer needs another blow job".
And you, of course, responded, "Imagine if you weren't quite so homophobic."

~~ Paul

jimbob

26th August 2007, 11:11 PM

Ah well I guess this thread shows that the following is a myth too:

"At least IT Admin likes notes, even if the users hate it"

Survival of the unfittest (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/feb/09/guardianweeklytechnologysection)

Lotus Notes is used by millions of people, but almost all of them seem to hate it. How can a program be so bad, yet thrive?

I have trained myself to use lotus notes, I just remember to tell myself that it is a database with email tacked on, and it (sort of) makes sense.

Anyway we were spun off and will soon get something different.

I'm a "user" but one with a good relationship with our IT staff (to Corpse Cruncher's bloody obvious, yet often overlooked, statement about "please and thank you" I would add that it is bad to assume that IT (or anyone) are utter incompetents or malign whose sole aim is to make your job harder.

I can think of several people with that attitude, and they lead me to the corollory "If you think the other person at the end of the phone is an idiot, at least one person in the conversation is, but ensure it isn't you".

jimbob

26th August 2007, 11:13 PM

4) "Everything should be automated!"

Amen.

There are always going to be situations where what is needed is uncommon, so if it is self-verifying, don't automate it if the effort is too great.

Broes

29th August 2007, 04:28 AM

3point14

29th August 2007, 07:45 AM

In my experience please and thank-you and a little empathy is all that's required to have a good working relationship with a helpdesk. Well, with my helpdesk at least.

And it's amazing how much more helpful the helpdesk get when you can give an exact answer to the question 'what error message did you get?'

Also, knowing where the 'any' key is is useful. :)

tsg

30th August 2007, 08:57 AM

User: "What you mean the server's harddisk is almost full?"
ICT: "Yes, your directory quota can not be raised. Archive some data please"
User: "Why don't you just put in a new disk? I saw one at the store, 500 Gb for just $200 !"

*groan*

User: "I need more space in my directory."
BOFH: "Okay, you now have 500MB free."
User: "Cool, you gave me another 500MB?"
BOFH: "No."

irishman

5th September 2007, 07:08 AM

Back in the early nineties when I was in a telecoms firm we had to install a backup x.25 link to a corporates disaster recovery site, they absolutely required the traffic to be re-routed (two routes to each site) within 2 seconds which involved us working with the manufacturer of the x.25 switches (it was slightly more complicated than I described).

We got it working and scheduled a test of the system to be run in the early hours of one particular morning. We had the data swith over......and then had the corporate client tell us that someone had to physically drive to the backup site with tapes (about 30 minutes away), boot up the spare system and load the tapes for a switch over to occur. Their backup site was an unmanned facility!!!

So much for the sub 2 second switchover.

a_unique_person

6th September 2007, 05:27 PM

Oh, god, yes. That's one of them, that's for sure, Ducky. :)

I also love "Why can't I have a copy of Access so I can write my own applications?"

:D

Now... assuming that person COULD write (or learn to write) in Access... why would we want to let them create some kind of weirdly written amateurish application that will then predictably become integral and critical to the department... to have it foisted off on I.T. later on, when they move on - or when it becomes too complex for for an amateur to support?

Hmmm... Gee... I wonder.

Yet I get this from managers - SENIOR managers - all the time!

I still remember the early days of the PC. The attitude was that now the rest of the company wouldn't have to put up with those idiots in IT and their restrictive policies and practices.

Windows is now starting to resemble a mainframe OS as it was decades ago, and is still just playing catch up.

gnome

6th September 2007, 07:35 PM

I've been the guy who made a weirdly written application that became integral to the department :)

a_unique_person

7th September 2007, 05:50 AM

For all those who aren't happy with Lotus Notes--and this isn't being snarky, I'm genuinely interested--what alternative application (groupware?) would accomplish similar requirements better? I'm finding it hard to compare Lotus Notes with anything because I'm not familiar with the alternatives.

We've got LN, and the management want to go Exchange. IIRC, LN is much more reliable, since all the email is stored in seperate files for each user, rather than one large database holding everyones email. Much less chance of corruption, restoring is much easier. Archiving a user's mail is much easier when they leave.

It's more secure than Exchange, since all databases can be made to require a security certificate.

It looks like *****, which, as far as users are concerned, is the real problem. It actually does everything that Exchange does.

It is a database, which means you can write applications in it that integrate with the email system.

I really don't care if we stay or go, but if we go, we have several applications that will have to be re-written.

It is also not that easy to get LN developers.

Exchange is apparently getting better in terms of reliability and scalability, now that it can use 64 bit addressing.

jimbob

7th September 2007, 10:32 AM

My problem is that I do use the Notes groupware applications, but even so, I still predominantly use the email, and it sucks.

Face it, even thunderbird has an inline spellchecker.

To me (as a user) Notes seems like a database management software, with email tacked on as another database

Starthinker

8th September 2007, 09:49 PM

You guys forgot one of the biggest myths: Since I'm the IT person I am an expert on every level of every software ever written for anybody.

rjh01

8th September 2007, 10:11 PM

quixotecoyote

9th September 2007, 03:19 AM

When we first rolled out the computers in the late 1980s to people who had never worked on computers before they started measuring the length of the cables. They thought the ones with the longer cables had slower response times.

If you're talking about network cables, they'd be right in certain cases. Are you talking power cables?

geni

9th September 2007, 04:51 AM

You guys forgot one of the biggest myths: Since I'm the IT person I am an expert on every level of every software ever written for anybody.

That would be in the "other duties commensurate with grade" part of your job description.

Chemists are expected to know everything so why not IT people?

tsg

9th September 2007, 07:49 PM

When we first rolled out the computers in the late 1980s to people who had never worked on computers before they started measuring the length of the cables. They thought the ones with the longer cables had slower response times.

Actually, it's the ones with the most bends in them. Everybody knows data is all ones and zeros. The zeros can get through the kinks okay because they are round but the ones are pointy and get stuck.

Blue Mountain

9th September 2007, 09:23 PM

Actually, it's the ones with the most bends in them. Everybody knows data is all ones and zeros. The zeros can get through the kinks okay because they are round but the ones are pointy and get stuck.

I remember having to set up ether-nets around the LAN ports of computers to catch the tokens when they fell out. :p

(Tolkien-ring LAN: There's only One Ring, but it's really powerful!)
(Ethernet: A devithe for catching the Eathter Bunny)

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

hellaeon

10th September 2007, 12:25 AM

Myth: Because I am the coder, I should know everything about the system setup.

Classic stories:
Idiot: 'My screen is black, nothing working, move the mouse nothing'
Me: 'Well, first up is it turned on?'
Idiot: 'Does it have a switch for that?'
-------------
Idiot: 'I cant login into the annual leave system...why not?'
Me: 'Use your login?'
Idiot: 'Still no go...'
So me remote desktops in to his pc. He decided to use his full real name as the login name. I have no idea why he thought that. Try to remain calm after such stupidity, remember they use the pc everyday and use their 'login' every day.
-----------------------
Idiot: 'I cant find the ruler in Word'
Me: 'Thats cool, there you go, thats how you fix that'
Not bad at all hey? x 5 visits over the course of a month....
---------------
Idiot: 'I sent them a word document and they cant open it. They have word!'
Me: 'Really? lets have a squiz...Um thats a Microsoft Visio document'
Idiot: 'What did you do to it then? why cant they open it?'
---------------------
Idiot: 'Do you have a left handed mouse? I just want to use it on the other side of the computer, the buttons are ok but I have to stretch across the desk to use it....'
Me: * waves fists in air on other end of phone *
----------------------
My favourite is when I pick up the phone and get 'What are you guys doing over there?', yeah im here purposely causing havok just on your computer.

Today I delt with a user that for some reason stored, yes stored, email folders in his deleted items bin in outlook then wondered why they dissapeared after he emptied his deleted items. Im serious. Read that again.

I also deal with a telemarketing department (work for a charity) and I often get a good laugh at the telemarketing supervisors creating mounds and mounds of paperwork based on numbers they seem to pull out of nowhere. Of course, when I produce reports quickly based on the database numbers my reports are wrong.

IT - uhhhh...certainly loosing the love for it these days.

merentha

10th September 2007, 08:35 AM

Actually, it's the ones with the most bends in them. Everybody knows data is all ones and zeros. The zeros can get through the kinks okay because they are round but the ones are pointy and get stuck.

At my previous place of employment, a PC belonging to a data vendor was not displaying output properly to the monitor. The display was basically being squished to one-half of the screen. No amount of rebooting, jiggling of the graphics card, unplugging/replugging of the monitor cable etc. would work. Finally, their tech guy decided to straighten the thick cable connecting the monitor to the PC. Yes, I watched in amusement as he slowly massaged and straightened the cable. Guess what, it worked!

That was the best Dilbert moment I've experienced.

six7s

10th September 2007, 11:56 AM

"At least IT Admin likes notes, even if the users hate it"

Survival of the unfittest (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/feb/09/guardianweeklytechnologysection)

I have trained myself to use lotus notes, I just remember to tell myself that it is a database with email tacked on, and it (sort of) makes sense.

Anyway we were spun off and will soon get something different.

It looks like Lotus Notes ain't going away in a hurry:

IBM JOINS OPENOFFICE.ORG COMMUNITY (http://www.openoffice.org/press/ibm_press_release.html)
IBM joins the OpenOffice.org community to develop and promote OpenOffice.org technology

10 September 2007 -- The OpenOffice.org community today announced that IBM will be joining the community to collaborate on the development of OpenOffice.org software. IBM will be making initial code contributions that it has been developing as part of its Lotus Notes product, including accessibility enhancements, and will be making ongoing contributions to the feature richness and code quality of OpenOffice.org. Besides working with the community on the free productivity suite's software, IBM will also leverage OpenOffice.org technology in its products.

<snip/>

Others involved in the project or distributing the code were equally enthusiastic about IBM"s step.

Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Ubuntu, the Linux distribution, said, <snip/>

And Hu Caiyong, CEO of Beijing's Redflag Chinese 2000 Software Co., Ltd.... stated,<snip/>

Scott Crenshaw, Red Hat's Vice President of Enterprise Linux, agreed: <snip/>

Source (http://www.openoffice.org/press/ibm_press_release.html)

Starthinker

10th September 2007, 12:18 PM

Idiot: 'I cant login into the annual leave system...why not?'
Me: 'Use your login?'
Idiot: 'Still no go...'
So me remote desktops in to his pc. He decided to use his full real name as the login name. I have no idea why he thought that. Try to remain calm after such stupidity, remember they use the pc everyday and use their 'login' every day.
-----------------------

Today I delt with a user that for some reason stored, yes stored, email folders in his deleted items bin in outlook then wondered why they dissapeared after he emptied his deleted items. Im serious. Read that again.

I had to single these two out. The second one you mentioned happened so frequently here that I put out an annual memo not to store things in your recycle bin or trash. Happens all the time.

The first one is just like a user I have here. Out of about 150 users I get more calls from this user than all other users combined. On a regular basis she calls me up to say she can't log in, I go into the server to unlock her account (three tries and your locked) then ask if her caps lock is on. Sometimes she swears it isn't sometimes she'll admit it is then get right in. This happened so much I had to call her supervisor to let her know to watch this user in the morning when she logs in. I asked that a sign be posted on her monitor or keyboard. On days when the supervisor is off, I still sometimes get this call. It's totally unfreakinbelievable. And that's just one of the many things she calls me about.

And of course she is one the biggest "but I didn't do it" people in the company. Many will deny having made (or tried to make) a change and they just don't realize that I know things don't just happen, but according to her, she never touches anything. Oh, yes, the font changed itself, the background changed itself, my documents moved to the trash on their own, etc., etc..

Does anyone have a user that prints everything to save it on paper, then saves the document in a folder, then saves it again in another folder, then swears she still needs it readily accessable so she can't archive it and ends up litteraly in an office with paper stacked to the ceiling and with tens of gigabytes of storage and yet I'm told to accomodate her because of her high-up position in the company? She gets CASES of paper delivered to office WEEKLY! Some of her files haven't been accessed in years, going back to the 90's even. I just don't get people like that.

jimbob

10th September 2007, 12:24 PM

^ ^
If computers are "magical", then they should know your full name, if that is what you would use to apply for annual leave...

IT guys are the priesthood. My guess it this is the attitude.

hellaeon

10th September 2007, 05:57 PM

I had to single these two out. The second one you mentioned happened so frequently here that I put out an annual memo not to store things in your recycle bin or trash. Happens all the time.

The first one is just like a user I have here. Out of about 150 users I get more calls from this user than all other users combined. On a regular basis she calls me up to say she can't log in, I go into the server to unlock her account (three tries and your locked) then ask if her caps lock is on. Sometimes she swears it isn't sometimes she'll admit it is then get right in. This happened so much I had to call her supervisor to let her know to watch this user in the morning when she logs in. I asked that a sign be posted on her monitor or keyboard. On days when the supervisor is off, I still sometimes get this call. It's totally unfreakinbelievable. And that's just one of the many things she calls me about.

And of course she is one the biggest "but I didn't do it" people in the company. Many will deny having made (or tried to make) a change and they just don't realize that I know things don't just happen, but according to her, she never touches anything. Oh, yes, the font changed itself, the background changed itself, my documents moved to the trash on their own, etc., etc..

Does anyone have a user that prints everything to save it on paper, then saves the document in a folder, then saves it again in another folder, then swears she still needs it readily accessable so she can't archive it and ends up litteraly in an office with paper stacked to the ceiling and with tens of gigabytes of storage and yet I'm told to accomodate her because of her high-up position in the company? She gets CASES of paper delivered to office WEEKLY! Some of her files haven't been accessed in years, going back to the 90's even. I just don't get people like that.

hahaha oh yeah.

That login guy is this mega mega big fat bloke and he rings up with similar stuff such as caps down etc, always saying the system this and that. Each time he calls, the other IT guy here laughs because I'll simulate eating pies (we call him 'pie eater' due to his extreme obesity).

Got a couple like your printer lady, but not as extreme. Our systems guy is pretty much nazi with some of the users and enforces rules on the system to save a few headaches.

Another thing I hate is when someone asks for help, you goto help them and they wont let you touch anything, will constantly jump 6 steps in the process and take 10 times as long to have their problem fixed. 'PLEASE SHUTUP AND I CAN HELP YOU LEARN HOW TO GET PAST THIS'.

The one I mentioned before has casued some grief - when someone rings for help but immediately blames you or even worse - tells you how *%*@%@ the system is. Yeah you know, you want help but first ring me up and abuse the system and our knowledge. I hung up on one such user after saying exactly that and a few more colourful words and of course, im the mean one.

I love to code, but help desk is just rubbish.

hellaeon

10th September 2007, 05:59 PM

I have lost count how many times I have to tell people, 'no I really dont know much about words features, you use it daily, I use it once a month'
Like mentioned before, im in IT so I know everything about every system and software package that exists.

Starthinker

10th September 2007, 06:30 PM

hahaha oh yeah.

That login guy is this mega mega big fat bloke and he rings up with similar stuff such as caps down etc, always saying the system this and that. Each time he calls, the other IT guy here laughs because I'll simulate eating pies (we call him 'pie eater' due to his extreme obesity).

Got a couple like your printer lady, but not as extreme. Our systems guy is pretty much nazi with some of the users and enforces rules on the system to save a few headaches.

Another thing I hate is when someone asks for help, you goto help them and they wont let you touch anything, will constantly jump 6 steps in the process and take 10 times as long to have their problem fixed. 'PLEASE SHUTUP AND I CAN HELP YOU LEARN HOW TO GET PAST THIS'.

The one I mentioned before has casued some grief - when someone rings for help but immediately blames you or even worse - tells you how *%*@%@ the system is. Yeah you know, you want help but first ring me up and abuse the system and our knowledge. I hung up on one such user after saying exactly that and a few more colourful words and of course, im the mean one.

I love to code, but help desk is just rubbish.

You sound lucky. I'm ALONE. I'm the only IT guy in the whole place so I get every single call ever. I've learned to be more of a diplomat than anything else these last few years.

Tom Morris

13th September 2007, 05:13 PM

One person asked me to have custom software systems written which would taken up 250+ hours of programming time... all to save exactly 2 hours of labor per month on the part of a clerical person. The latter came out in the business plan; and of course, the request was politely - but firmly - turned down.

There is a valid concern hidden underneath it though. Most IT people have boring tasks crunching away in the background with an army of hacked-together scripts. In this case, it may not be appropriate - but in a lot of cases, it is appropriate to just hunker down and spend an hour writing a quick script to handle common tasks. Often businesses will spend a ridiculous amount of money on a proprietary system like - well - Microsoft Project, when the core functionality that is required could be achieved in a ten line Python script.

Why this doesn't trickle down to other parts of the enterprise is amazing. I mean, the amount of important business data that is sent around in Excel files and processed by hand is ridiculous. Surely, if we taught basic programming skills in a language like Python to people at schools, we'd have the secretaries and customer service people able to knock together little scripts that would make them more productive. I'm not talking writing, you know, enterprise class servers and so on - but things like text and data processing hacks. Alternatively, IT people should be helping to write hacky scripts to make things run quicker. Why on earth not?

The biggest bit of magical thinking I see in computing is the technical-changes-to-solve-human-problems situation. People aren't using the Intranet, so we should rebuild it. People haven't adopted XHTML, so we should stop working on it. The Semantic Web hasn't happened yet, so let's kill the poor dear off and be done with it.

There are social problems which technology cannot solve. If people aren't using a corporate Intranet, it may be that it was misconceived, or it was badly designed with regards to how actual users will use it. Switching technology or vendor will not change those problems. Maybe the reason people aren't using the Intranet is because it's too complicated to login to, or users haven't had it explained to them, or there's very little benefit because you have to go through a nineteen-step process that management instituted for 'accountability' or something to update any information on there - and so, therefore, nobody has updated it, and nobody uses it because the information is wrong, or it's badly designed or somesuch similar problem. Or it was fundamentally misconceived and some dimwit in management needs to have his head banged against the desk for commissioning a project so obviously doomed to failure.

Instead of fixing that problem (which would involve firing anybody who is both stupid and charged with commissioning IT projects, investing money for user training and user testing to figure out how to improve the software, and custom coding), you have a binary switch - it's on, it's off.

I saw a while back an excellent example of a new kind of development process called Buzzword-Driven Development which is what happens when you have idiots charged with building software. See XML vs. CSV: The Choice is Obvious! (http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/XML_vs_CSV__0x3a__The_Choice_is_Obvious.aspx)

I have a funny feeling that Apple chose to use XML to serialize PLists in for much the same reason - buzzword compliance. I like XML, but using it as a wrapper for CSV or PList seems as if someone may have missed the point of XML. (Plus, I've tried to parse XML PLists using XSLT and they are a nightmare).

jsfisher

13th September 2007, 05:49 PM

CriticalThanking

19th September 2007, 09:13 AM

The test system does not need to have more than a small fraction of the anticipated data of the production system to predict full-volume performance.

and

The test system does not need to be the same configuration as production will be.A pet peeve. 'Nuff said.

QA can find every possible bug.
Unless you have a one-line program or nearly unlimited time and budget, the number of test conditions is too large to cover 100%. I do understand there are mission critical systems that need 100% code coverage testing, but even those are highly unlikely to be able to test all the possible combinations of software/hardware/communication failure.

QA should find every possible bug.Given the preceding myth, you have to declare victory (or "good enough") at some point. Good QA people understand different types/levels of testing: business logic, boundary testing, UI testing, error handling, restart/recovery, etc. Everyone, including management must be aware of what has and has not been tested. Everyone must go into production understanding that there will be bugs found, but hopefully no showstoppers.

CT

CriticalThanking

19th September 2007, 09:34 AM

IT must control the data - users must not be allowed to access/copy the data directly. Users will only screw it up.
Users are the ones that understand the business use of the data the best. While individual IT users may become subject matter experts, IT resources are limited. IT cannot generate new reports/tools fast enough to give everyone what they need. Users have two choices - do business without data or build their own limited-scope tools/reports. Want a data warehouse project to fail? Deny users access to everything except the canned reports.

Users should be trusted to build their own tools.Another bane of IT is uncontrolled silos of data: MS Access, Excel, etc. "One version of the truth" is a common Business Intelligence rallying cry. The instant you have multiple copies of data, you have the potential for conflicting uses.

Ok - if IT can't control the data and users should not have it, what do you do? You live with the reality that both sides have to work together. IT can't do it all, but they can provide 1) infrastructure for developers AND users to access data and information and 2) provide training and tools, and a business framework for users to attempt their own analysis of data.

Get used to it - Excel will be around forever (I am hoping MS Access will die!). Excel can already access (no pun intended) databases and OLAP cubes directly. Teach your users the right way to go after the data. Make it easy for them to have IT show them what has already been done and where to get to it. This is more than just a data dictionary and system topology document. This is a relationship built through regular IT-business interaction.
[/soapbox]

CT

joobz

19th September 2007, 09:57 AM

Back in 96ish, I was a co-op in an environmental company that was upgrading to windows 95 and going to an office wide network system. The IT guys (who really did set up a nice system) explained to everyone how they now had a NAS to save everything onto. It was a mirrored system that was backed up nightly. (The file demands weren't huge at the time). These night backups were kept for one week. Then each week, a backup was kept for 1 month. Then each month 1 back up was kept in storage indefinitely.

They spent 1 to 2 meetings pleading with people to start using the NAS instead of floppy discs (Which was common practice), because of reliability concerns.

Well, one PM didn't like the idea of a server (if you can't see it, it must not be reliable). she was in charge of a huge project that was centralizing all of the resumes of the company. She had hired temps to help with the dataentry of all the resumes.

Anyway, she demanded that all the temps save thier files onto the safe floppies. All the while, she would demean and talk down to the temps who were working for her (accusing them of not working fast/hard enough)

I had the pleasure of being in the room when she realized that the floppies she was using went bad. (I think it was from her careless way of ejecting discs without ensureing writing was done) She starts demanding how to fix it. I asked if she had backed it up on the NAS, and by the daggers she sent my way I knew she didn't.

She flew off the handle and started attacking the IT guys for not being able to fix the discs. All they could do was give the I told you so speech, but the best part of it was when 2 two temps piped in saying how they had backed up thier work on the local harddisc this entire time. Afterall, they knew floppy discs weren't reliable and made it a practice to back stuff up.

So the only work that was lost was what the PM had done.

Blue Mountain

19th September 2007, 02:32 PM

(leading part snipped)
I had the pleasure of being in the room when she realized that the floppies she was using went bad. (I think it was from her careless way of ejecting discs without ensureing writing was done) She starts demanding how to fix it. I asked if she had backed it up on the NAS, and by the daggers she sent my way I knew she didn't.

She flew off the handle and started attacking the IT guys for not being able to fix the discs. All they could do was give the I told you so speech, but the best part of it was when 2 two temps piped in saying how they had backed up thier work on the local harddisc this entire time. Afterall, they knew floppy discs weren't reliable and made it a practice to back stuff up.

So the only work that was lost was what the PM had done.
Let me guess ... the temps were fired for not following proper procedures, you didn't get a raise that year ("performance does not meet expectations"), and this PM is now a vice-president.

If I sound a tad bitter, it's because I've been there, done that. :mad:

gnome

19th September 2007, 03:00 PM

Users are the ones that understand the business use of the data the best. While individual IT users may become subject matter experts, IT resources are limited. IT cannot generate new reports/tools fast enough to give everyone what they need. Users have two choices - do business without data or build their own limited-scope tools/reports. Want a data warehouse project to fail? Deny users access to everything except the canned reports.

Another bane of IT is uncontrolled silos of data: MS Access, Excel, etc. "One version of the truth" is a common Business Intelligence rallying cry. The instant you have multiple copies of data, you have the potential for conflicting uses.

Ok - if IT can't control the data and users should not have it, what do you do? You live with the reality that both sides have to work together. IT can't do it all, but they can provide 1) infrastructure for developers AND users to access data and information and 2) provide training and tools, and a business framework for users to attempt their own analysis of data.

Get used to it - Excel will be around forever (I am hoping MS Access will die!). Excel can already access (no pun intended) databases and OLAP cubes directly. Teach your users the right way to go after the data. Make it easy for them to have IT show them what has already been done and where to get to it. This is more than just a data dictionary and system topology document. This is a relationship built through regular IT-business interaction.
[/soapbox]

CT

I am a heavy Access user and a fan, but I understand the trouble you express. For every project I've done, I've made it a practice to keep the data on a central, backed up, server so that there's only one version. It tends to come into play when a project is worthwhile, but not big enough for the upper level IT to work on it as a formal development process. Any other advice on how to avoid being a big headache for IT while messing with Access?

joobz

19th September 2007, 03:04 PM

Let me guess ... the temps were fired for not following proper procedures, you didn't get a raise that year ("performance does not meet expectations"), and this PM is now a vice-president.

If I sound a tad bitter, it's because I've been there, done that. :mad:
Funny enough, no.

The President reamed her out for not following the IT staff recommendations, The temps finished the job and I did my next co-op round with the IT staff. While I was a Chem-E co-op, there was no "chem eng" jobs available that semester. So, I did what I know I could do. Funny thing was the IT group was so happy with my performance, they petitioned to get an actual IT intern. So, next cycle when I was back, I was doing chem eng work again, and I got to hear the IT guys continually complain in private to me about their stupid idiot intern.

That semester, walking past their room you'd hear things like,
"Intern! (can't remember his name), Why did you reformat the office manager's harddrive? you were asked to fix his printer...."

six7s

19th September 2007, 03:46 PM

Any other advice on how to avoid being a big headache for IT while messing with Access?

Be proactive :)

Analyse your 'problem domain' then design your database (an iterative process!) before implementation
.
Document and model your assumptions and design decisions in a geek-friendly format, e.g.: ERDs - Entity Relation Diagrams
ORM - Object Role Modelling
UML - Unified Modeling Language
Such an approach may well illustrate that your 'new' need may well be best met by using an existing database or maybe even an altogether different approach

Either way, the savings will could be significant when it comes to maintenance and further development

Well... that's the theory ;)

Ben Tilly

20th September 2007, 06:23 AM

I would claim that it is faster to "go with the flow". Sure it may be frustrating to believe you already know the answer, but if you can work through their script, you can get bumped up to the next level of service that much faster, rather than arguing every minor point.

Big if.

Particularly if they are trying to tell me how to navigate the Windows menu to get the information they want, and I'm on a Linux machine...

cyborg

20th September 2007, 06:26 AM

I'm on a Linux machine...

Lee-nii-uck-ess? What is this lee-nucks you speak of?

Ben Tilly

20th September 2007, 06:30 AM

For all those who aren't happy with Lotus Notes--and this isn't being snarky, I'm genuinely interested--what alternative application (groupware?) would accomplish similar requirements better? I'm finding it hard to compare Lotus Notes with anything because I'm not familiar with the alternatives.

When you say "similar requirements", what requirements are you talking about?

I don't know of any software that is actually better than Notes at working how Notes was intended to work. That said, Notes is usually used to solve business problems that can be solved other ways. For instance most people using Notes are using it to solve the requirement of, "We need an email system." There are lots and lots of alternatives to that, and most are better!

For the minority that build custom applications in Notes, you have to evaluate alternatives on a case by case basis. And for the best results you generally need to start with, "What business problem are we solving here?"

IllegalArgument

20th September 2007, 06:39 AM

I recently found this lovely blog, "The IT Skeptic":
http://www.itskeptic.org/node/25

Since, our company sells an CMDB solution, it's was very interesting reading.

Ben Tilly

20th September 2007, 06:44 AM

There is a valid concern hidden underneath it though. Most IT people have boring tasks crunching away in the background with an army of hacked-together scripts. In this case, it may not be appropriate - but in a lot of cases, it is appropriate to just hunker down and spend an hour writing a quick script to handle common tasks. Often businesses will spend a ridiculous amount of money on a proprietary system like - well - Microsoft Project, when the core functionality that is required could be achieved in a ten line Python script.

Why this doesn't trickle down to other parts of the enterprise is amazing. I mean, the amount of important business data that is sent around in Excel files and processed by hand is ridiculous. Surely, if we taught basic programming skills in a language like Python to people at schools, we'd have the secretaries and customer service people able to knock together little scripts that would make them more productive. I'm not talking writing, you know, enterprise class servers and so on - but things like text and data processing hacks. Alternatively, IT people should be helping to write hacky scripts to make things run quicker. Why on earth not?

You haven't seen users do this? Thank your lucky stars!

You are not the first person to ask for more ability to do automation of software. In fact it is for exactly this purpose that Microsoft Office integrates so closely with VB. And users regularly do use it as it was intended, particularly in Excel and Access.

The problem is that knowing how to write programs and knowing how to program are very different skills. When end users start to write these applications, invariably they make every mistake in the book. Misused poorly named globals. Long strings of spaghetti logic. Hidden dependencies. All of it. And you get a coding horror story. Which inevitably becomes indispensible. (This is not accidental. The user wrote it exactly because it did something that really was needed. So it got used.) And nobody in IT hears about the application until they are called in to deal with a problem with it. (The worst being when the original author left the company sometime earlier, someone tried to change it, broke it, couldn't fix it, and IT is told to "make it work again".)

In fact the genre is infamous in IT. If you've never had to deal with the cleanup from this, consider yourself lucky. If you had, then you'd have no questions about why so many IT people discourage end users from writing hacks that could grow up to become nightmares.

Ben Tilly

20th September 2007, 06:51 AM

I've been the guy who made a weirdly written application that became integral to the department :)

True story. On my first programming job I wound up being asked to take over development of an unreleased reporting application. When it was finished, we figured out that development costs over its entire history totalled over a million dollars.

The final version was entirely rewritten from scratch, by me.

After it was released and put in use, we found out that most of the users were using it as a glorified address book.

The project was considered a success.

IllegalArgument

20th September 2007, 07:04 AM

True story. On my first programming job I wound up being asked to take over development of an unreleased reporting application. When it was finished, we figured out that development costs over its entire history totalled over a million dollars.

The final version was entirely rewritten from scratch, by me.

After it was released and put in use, we found out that most of the users were using it as a glorified address book.

The project was considered a success.

I feel your pain. I work as a support engineer, which means I'm a programmer who works for support.

You know those books about good design and refactoring, well I have read most of them and they are right.

At my company, the development staff kills themselves to get a new component written for the product done enough to meet an "aggressive" customer deadline.

Now, I understand this what you have to do to get the sell sometimes. Problem is development is never given to refactor the code, clean up all the shortcuts and misunderstandings of how things actually work that were in the "prototype" as I like to call it these days.

What does this cause, a support group with as many programmers as the development, even with that, support is buried in work fixing and refactoring code. To point where we have to drag development into the mix to make the customers happy. Which slows developments schedule, which causes them to have to rush on the next release.... cycle continues.

I do wish that someone would do a cost-benefit analysis. I swear we burn more man-hours supporting this product than we make off some customers.

You can call this, "Refactoring the code isn't worth it myth".

tsg

20th September 2007, 07:08 AM

Big if.

Particularly if they are trying to tell me how to navigate the Windows menu to get the information they want, and I'm on a Linux machine...

The trick is to pretend you are doing what they ask, clicking the mouse as necessary, and typing in the command that gets the info they are looking for.

Alternatively, I have had luck with just asking them "what is it you are looking for?"

malbui

20th September 2007, 10:53 AM

The problem is that knowing how to write programs and knowing how to program are very different skills. When end users start to write these applications, invariably they make every mistake in the book. Misused poorly named globals. Long strings of spaghetti logic. Hidden dependencies. All of it. And you get a coding horror story. Which inevitably becomes indispensible. (This is not accidental. The user wrote it exactly because it did something that really was needed. So it got used.) And nobody in IT hears about the application until they are called in to deal with a problem with it. (The worst being when the original author left the company sometime earlier, someone tried to change it, broke it, couldn't fix it, and IT is told to "make it work again".)

When I was a student, I used to enjoy looking at the entries in the Obfuscated C competition. Then at work I started being asked to "support" end-user apps that had evolved over a number of years and learned that there is nothing deliberately ugly that cannot be surpassed as a result of a combination of ignorance and deadlines. I soon lost count of the number of things I simply rewrote in conjunction with the key users.

Ben Tilly

20th September 2007, 04:31 PM

I feel your pain. I work as a support engineer, which means I'm a programmer who works for support.

Actually there was no pain. I'm very proud of that address book. I've never

True story. (Warning, brag mode ahead.)

When it was released, my manager went around the country releasing it to various departments. Support was to be given by me and my manager. We were told to expect a deluge of phone calls.

Our phones were silent. Were people using it?

The first phone call came a month after we released it. It went to my manager. It was a request for more data. For a variety of reasons, we weren't scheduling that for a few months, but while she was on the phone my manager asked some questions.

Were people using it? Lots were.

Performance? Fine. Well, it was somewhat slow on the 386s (this was in 1997), but still acceptable.

User friendly? Nobody had any trouble with it. It was pretty much self-explanatory.

How was the documentation? What documentation??? (Turns out that people had been installing it and not passing along the documentation!)

After I left it was rolled out to Europe. About a year after that the person who took over maintenance tracked down my email and emailed me about it. It is the only time I have received, or heard of receiving, a thank you email from the maintenance programmer because the code was so easy to change. :-)

You know those books about good design and refactoring, well I have read most of them and they are right.

At my company, the development staff kills themselves to get a new component written for the product done enough to meet an "aggressive" customer deadline.

Ah, right. Steve McConnell makes the key point in Rapid Development that you need to know what kind of rapid development you want. Are you trying to be sure you make a specific date? Are you trying to get maximum throughput?

Many managers need the second, but ask for the first with aggressive dates because that's the only way they know to make that request. With the result that they accidentally demotivate their developers and hurt their throughput.

Now, I understand this what you have to do to get the sell sometimes. Problem is development is never given to refactor the code, clean up all the shortcuts and misunderstandings of how things actually work that were in the "prototype" as I like to call it these days.

What does this cause, a support group with as many programmers as the development, even with that, support is buried in work fixing and refactoring code. To point where we have to drag development into the mix to make the customers happy. Which slows developments schedule, which causes them to have to rush on the next release.... cycle continues.

I do wish that someone would do a cost-benefit analysis. I swear we burn more man-hours supporting this product than we make off some customers.

You can call this, "Refactoring the code isn't worth it myth".

Smart people did the cost benefit analysis a long time ago. The majority of software costs are in maintenance. So much so, in fact, that it is cost effective to put the energy in up front on good code.

Here is an interesting statistic. In IBM's research, even discounting things like the training benefit, code reviews were the most effective (in $ per bug) method of finding bugs.

And a point to ponder. Many studies have demonstrated individual productivity differences of 100 to 1 in software development. Studies also show that the most productive developers spend the smallest fraction of their time actually coding. What do they do instead? Oh, things like reading specifications, doing design, writing unit tests...

gnome

20th September 2007, 04:51 PM

When you say "similar requirements", what requirements are you talking about?

I don't know of any software that is actually better than Notes at working how Notes was intended to work. That said, Notes is usually used to solve business problems that can be solved other ways. For instance most people using Notes are using it to solve the requirement of, "We need an email system." There are lots and lots of alternatives to that, and most are better!

For the minority that build custom applications in Notes, you have to evaluate alternatives on a case by case basis. And for the best results you generally need to start with, "What business problem are we solving here?"

You've answered my question. Notes is a poor email system, but useful for distributing and updating shared documents. Intranet is starting to cut into this some, but I don't think it's surpassed it yet.

Giraffe107

20th September 2007, 06:14 PM

You guys would enjoy a British show, the IT Crowd (I think they are making a US version). Anyway, it's set in this really dingy IT department in the basement of the office. Every time a user rings up with a problem, they say "have you tried turning it off and on?" and then the user says "that's fixed it!". At one stage they rig up an answering machine.

The boss also has no clue about IT, at one stage a computer is on fire and he says "Nice screensaver"

Ben Tilly

20th September 2007, 06:21 PM

You've answered my question. Notes is a poor email system, but useful for distributing and updating shared documents. Intranet is starting to cut into this some, but I don't think it's surpassed it yet.

It isn't that clear cut. Your basic revision control system (CVS, subversion, perforce, etc) is far, far better than Notes at distributing and updating certain kinds of shared documents. Distributed revision control systems like git solve problems that you couldn't even dream of tackling in Notes.

At the other end, a basic wiki is better than Notes for a lot of use cases. Just because it is so much simpler to use.

But where Notes wins is when you have a well-defined document flow system where different versions of documents need to be available to different people with complex permissions. I simply don't know of any off the shelf alternative that is better than Notes for this type of scenario. (Probably because this is exactly the scenario that Notes was designed to solve...)

Starthinker

20th September 2007, 09:49 PM

I got a new one. Well, an old one for me but I haven't seen it mentioned here. New employee comes on board, a new additional employee so I had to order a new laptop and set it up for her. She hasn't gotten it yet but she is already calling me with questions. Her first question? Is there a way to use the laptop without typing because she's never used a keyboard before. Okay, there are people out there who've never used a computer before, I accept that, but why hire one in a business office where everything, and I mean everything, is computer based? The newest, fastest, computer I have, and the only one with Vista, is going to a user who has never used one before. I just love getting calls like, "What is a double click?"

Patience. Patience.

tsg

20th September 2007, 10:00 PM

My boss just had to fire someone for "inappropriate use of company resources" (translation: surfing porn sites). After being warned. Twice. And a letter was sent to every employee in the company explaining what constituted inappropriate use.

six7s

20th September 2007, 10:09 PM

Her first question? Is there a way to use the laptop without typing because she's never used a keyboard before.

Windows Speech Recognition (http://www.microsoft.com/enable/products/windowsvista/speech.aspx)
Windows Speech Recognition is a new feature in Windows Vista
I have only heard about it, no idea if it really works... might be more hassle than its worth

Okay, there are people out there who've never used a computer before, I accept that, but why hire one in a business office where everything, and I mean everything, is computer based?

HR: a discipline practised by aliens without resources

IllegalArgument

21st September 2007, 05:17 AM

Smart people did the cost benefit analysis a long time ago. The majority of software costs are in maintenance. So much so, in fact, that it is cost effective to put the energy in up front on good code.

Here is an interesting statistic. In IBM's research, even discounting things like the training benefit, code reviews were the most effective (in $ per bug) method of finding bugs.

And a point to ponder. Many studies have demonstrated individual productivity differences of 100 to 1 in software development. Studies also show that the most productive developers spend the smallest fraction of their time actually coding. What do they do instead? Oh, things like reading specifications, doing design, writing unit tests...

I agree. I'm just trying to get my management to understand. :)

I'll toot my horn for a second, after three years they finally let me rewrite a particularly baneful piece of the product. The use case for the customer was taking 18 hours to run, the code was spaghetti and everyone was afraid to work with it.

After the rewrite, it was 40% the size of the previous code, clean, commented, had every function working with a few new ones, used less resources and finished the customer test in three minutes.

Somedays, I think that will be the best piece of code, I'll ever write.

We haven't had a major compliant about that component in 8 months, before it was 2-3 major issues a month.

Ever since that, I have been using the rewrite as a club to beat management over the head about refactoring.

jimbob

21st September 2007, 08:21 AM

I presume it was an urban myth that at a demo of some speach recognition software some journalist shouted "Format C, enter, yes, yes"

cyborg

21st September 2007, 08:29 AM

Shouting it or the software actually executing it?

Starthinker

21st September 2007, 08:31 AM

Windows Speech Recognition (http://www.microsoft.com/enable/products/windowsvista/speech.aspx)

I have only heard about it, no idea if it really works... might be more hassle than its worth

HR: a discipline practised by aliens without resources

Yes, I just set up speech recognition for a handicapped employee and it doesn't replace a keyboard completely. There is a difference between having fingers that don't work and just not wanting to learn to type. Luckily, the employee with speech recognition just needs it to log activities.

The point is, they hired someone for a job that is basically sitting at a computer all day long filling out forms and they hired someone who can't even type and has never used a computer before and, of course, because it's a computer it falls to me to train this person. HR touted the "people skills" of this person as being the reason they hired her, but that isn't going to do me any good. I've been through this before and believe me, training a 55 year old woman how to simply move a curser is frustrating at best. I make them play Solitaire for an hour or so, and won't move on until I see they have mastered moving the cards around.

Anyway, I knew someone would bring up speech recognition and no, it's not an option.