Applied Kinesiology

[smahon]

:confused:
I have kept quiet over the years about a very dear friend's escapades into woowoo activities (acupuncture, homeopathy, etc..). I eventually broke my silence when they were about to head off into a Malaria infested country armed only with homeopathic anti-malaria remedies, pleading with them to at least play safe by doubling up with conventional drugs. Now I am regularly confronted with various practices, and while not 'challenged' to dispute their efficacy, there is a definite expectation that I express my conventional western viewpoint.

So, I would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me as to what on earth Applied Kinesiology is supposed to be?

I have checked Skeptic Dictionary, but I wondered if anyone else had any useful sites/links.

Many Thanks,

Ste

[Martin]

I know that quackwatch.com has a page on it (http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/ak.html), but for some reason I can't access it right now. Here's Google's cache of the same page:

http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:BN7nbqPIIywJ:[url]www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/ak.html+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[jnelso99]

When I went to college, you could major in Kinesiology. It was basically physical education and sports medicine, teaching people to be sports trainers and P.E. teachers, nothing wierd about it. Not sure what it means in the woowoo world.

[SteveGrenard]

Kinesiology.Net - Kinesiology Network
Kinesiology Network - about Manual Muscle Testing, Applied Kinesiology, Kinesiologic
Medicine and Specialized Kinesiology, Energy Kinesiology. ...
Description: Resources to site about applied kinesiology, specialized kinesiology and manual muscle testing.
Category: Health > Alternative > Chiropractic > Kinesiology
www.kinesiology.net/ - 19k - Aug 31, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

International College of Applied Kinesiology
International College of Applied Kinesiology. Applied Kinesiology (AK) is
a system using muscle testing as a functional neurological evaluation. ...
Description: General information about applied Kinesiology.
Category: Health > Alternative > Chiropractic > Kinesiology
www.icak.com/ - 2k - Aug 31, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

International Headquarters of Health Kinesiology
... The official site of Health Kinesiology founded by Dr. Jimmy Scott, creator
of the Allergy Tap™ and author of Cure Your Own Allergies in Minutes. ...
Description: Jimmy Scott's site about Health Kinesiology, a brand of BioEnergetic Kinesiology which uses the acupunctu...
Category: Health > Alternative > Chiropractic > Kinesiology
www.subtlenergy.com/ - 14k - Aug 31, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

SFU's School of Kinesiology
For a Faster Text Only version of this site turn
OFF the Autoload Images option and Reload. ...
Description: Courses include anatomy, biochemistry, biomechanics, human motor control systems, physiology and kinanthr...
Category: Reference > Education > ... > Applied Sciences, Faculty of
fas.sfu.ca/kin/ - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/10506411
Similar pages

UIUC Dept. of Kinesiology
elcome to the Department of Kinesiology at The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. ... Are
you interested in studying a Kinesiology-related field at UIUC? ...
Description: Comprehensive source of information on the department.
Category: Reference > Education > ... > College of Applied Life Studies
www.kines.uiuc.edu/ - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

ICAK USA Chapter - Applied Kinesiology
Welcome to the International College of Applied Kinesiology - USA Chapter ... Copyright
1996 - 2003 International College of Applied Kinesiology-USA. ...
Description: US chapter. Information and courses.
Category: Health > Alternative > Chiropractic > Kinesiology
www.icakusa.com/ - 9k - Aug 31, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

Kinesiology, Kinesiology Courses, Professional Training, Muscle ...
Kinesiology, Muscle Testing, is the most potent, safe, powerful, hands-on, drug
free natural approach to holistic natural health care for the millennium and ...
Description: Lay and professional training since 1976. First in Britain and Europe.
Category: Health > Alternative > Massage Therapy and Bodywork > Schools
www.kinesiology.co.uk/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Health Kinesiology UK: We have moved
... Click here to enter Health Kinesiology's New UK Web Site now. For more information ... jane@lifeworkpotential.com
© 1999-2002 Health Kinesiology UK.
www.healthk.co.uk/ - 4k - Aug 31, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

Faculty of Kinesiology
NEWS & EVENTS, Dinos Athletics Fundraiser Helps Calgary’s Homeless University
of Calgary Dinos Athletics Fundraiser Helps Calgary’s Homeless. ...
Description: Contains details on degrees, athletics and facilities.
Category: Reference > Education > ... > Departments and Programs
www.kin.ucalgary.ca/ - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

[Darat]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard


...snip....



Steve (not meant to be an insult in any way or a leading question) but it seems you have reams of these types of references ready to post at the drop of a hat?

Do you spend time constructing them? If so how do you keep them organised? I use bookmarks in my browser but find it takes a lot of work to keep them organised and very hard to quickly construct them into a list - how do you do it?!

[Martin]

Originally posted by Darat
Steve (not meant to be an insult in any way or a leading question) but it seems you have reams of these types of references ready to post at the drop of a hat?Looks like a cut-and-paste from a Google search to me. Observe the 'cached - similar pages' line beside each one.

[BTox]

If applied kinesiology is another term for muscle testing, it is another ludicrous practice that has no scientific basis and simply does not, nor can it, work. It is almost as ridiculous as homeopathy. Not quite, but close!

The basic notion is merely holding a supplement (even in a bottle and blinded), your body will somehow recognize what it is and whether it is needed or not by making your major skeletal muscles significantly weaker. It's really just a parlor trick used by quacks like chiropractors, naturopaths and homeopaths to give some proof that the nonsense they are prescribing will help the patient.

[smahon]

:roll:
Steve,
At first I thought you were just bombarding me with pro-quackery sites. Having visited a couple of them I now appreciate your subtlety.
Anyone visiting one of your listed sites,

www.subtlenergy.com

couldn't help but be touched by the moving picture of a couple holding hands/paws with their dog under the text

<clipped> "... people who just want to help themselves and their families (including pets!) overcome health problems."

Now all I have to do is buy a dog, and grow a beard.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Martinm
Looks like a cut-and-paste from a Google search to me. Observe the 'cached - similar pages' line beside each one.

It is. It's simply the first couple of hits when you search for "Kinesiology".

Steve relies on Google a lot. In fact, it is his primary, secondary and tertiary source of information. What he doesn't understand is that what is found on a website is not necessarily the truth.

When called on one of his many claims, he simply refers to Google (if he reacts at all). When he does provide evidence of his claims (a rare event), he often posts something that either has no relevance to his claim, or proves him wrong.

Steve is a man with very few tricks... :rolleyes:

[smahon]

I gather there is a genuine discipline called Kinesiology, related to physiotherapy, whereas the Applied or Special or Energy Kinesiology varieties are slightly less conventional.
Is there a similar situation with chiropractors, i.e. a genuine medical discipline, and a gaggle of pseudo medical practitioners, or are all chiropractors of the same ilk.

[SteveGrenard]

Yes smahon, I was simply answering your question..............

and no Darat, it doesn't take long and I dont have them archived anywhere. LOL. A search for term Applied Kinesiology (which frankly I have never heard of in the context of some of these sites) returned many pages of URLS of which this was a sample.

and yes, there is a mainstream field of kinesiology. In fact I took a course in it as a undergrad but apparently it has been expanded to include some sort of alternative muscle testing
procedures which is used for making diagnoses or guiding treatment by chiros and D.O.s. Mainstream
neurologists routinely and manually test muscle strength to
gauge nervous system abnormalities and they do EMGS
(electromyography) for similar reasons. I have no idea what
these alternative kinesis are supposed to be doing.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Yes smahon, I was simply answering your question..............

By posting a simple Google-search for "Kinesiology"?? Do you really think that's helpful? Do you think that people are not aware of Google? Do you consider a Google-search an "answer" to anything?

If you know something about a subject, share it. If you don't, don't pass yourself as someone who does.

[Darat]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Yes smahon, I was simply answering your question..............

and no Darat, it doesn't take long and I dont have them archived anywhere. LOL. A search for term Applied Kinesiology (which frankly I have never heard of in the context of some of these sites) returned many pages of URLS of which this was a sample.

and yes, there is a mainstream field of kinesiology. In fact I took a course in it as a undergrad but apparently it has been expanded to include some sort of alternative muscle testing
procedures which is used for making diagnoses or guiding treatment by chiros and D.O.s. Mainstream
neurologists routinely and manually test muscle strength to
gauge nervous system abnormalities and they do EMGS
(electromyography) for similar reasons. I have no idea what
these alternative kinesis are supposed to be doing.

I'm sorry it I've opened a can of worms for you; it was a genuine question. I had assumed you had "vetted" the sites you provided the links to after finding them with a search engine. I'll retire from this line of questioning before the can of worms turns into a nest of vipers!

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


By posting a simple Google-search for "Kinesiology"?? Do you really think that's helpful? Do you think that people are not aware of Google? Do you consider a Google-search an "answer" to anything?

If you know something about a subject, share it. If you don't, don't pass yourself as someone who does.
Whoa, calm down. Do a google image search for "kittens (http://images.google.com/images?q=kittens&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search)" and calm down.

[smahon]

To end this thread, and lighten the mood, I'd just like to share my initial reply upon hearing my friend was to visit a Kinesiologist.
I told her I had no idea she had any trouble with her k-nees, and anyway the 'k' was silent and pronounced 'nees'. I recommend some squats each morning might rectify her problem.

A quick thought. It's a real pity there is no verb 'to probify' instead of probe, as a rather choice spoonerism could arise with the phrase "rectify her problem".
:D

[dissonance]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Whoa, calm down. Do a google image search for "kittens (http://images.google.com/images?q=kittens&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search)" and calm down.

So many kittens! Going into cuteness overload...

[SteveGrenard]

:c1:

[Yahzi]

The cat movie (and I mean the!)

http://www.ianai.net/jokes/cat.mpeg

[Quasi]

AK is another scam to sell worthless or inapropriate dietary supplements. Here in Massachusetts the CAM community has set up a massive distribution center in Concord. The CAM practitioners get something like 40% of the sale of the tablets. So they place a random pill in your hand, jerk your arm up and down and then tell you you really need it. The only basis I can see for selecting the right DS pill is a) what they have the most of in stock, and b) how much they think they can charge you for the product. So depending on how big a sucker you are, you might end up spending $100.00 for a vitamin C tablet, where you could get a bucket of multivitamins from BJ's for $40.00 per year. No big surprises here, and no connection whatsoever to kinesiology.

[tracer]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Whoa, calm down. Do a google image search for "kittens (http://images.google.com/images?q=kittens&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search)" and calm down.
You left out this famous image (http://www.hosstyle.com/Goofy%20shit/images/godkills.jpg).

[tracer]

Incidentally, I once went to another kind of woo-woo -- a Vision Therapist (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/eyequack.html#vision) -- on a regular basis. One day, he decided he ought to do a nutritional analysis on me, so he did some Applied Kinesiology. He just had me rest my right hand on various bottles of different vitamins and minerals, while he tested the strength of my left arm. He claimed that the stronger my left arm was, the more my body needed whatever nutrient was resting under my right hand, which is backwards from some of the descriptions given above.


Note that the vitamin bottles were all labelled so that I could tell what they were. He recommended that I not look at them, though, so that I wouldn't think, "Oh, this is Vitamin C, which is supposed to be good for me, so I'll make my arm stronger."

[BTox]

See, even the woowoos can't get it right when their practice is based on such complete nonsense. Weaker, stronger, what's the difference? You'll still buy whatever supplement your body "tells" you!

[BradCatlin]

I would like to talk to someone who can demonstrate how Applied Kinesiology demonstrations used by proponents of CAM products are useless and can explain why. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding whom I should contact about this? Thanks in advance.

[Robo Sapien]

Be careful not to conflate Kinesiology with Applied Kinesiology, the are two totally different things, the former being a legitimate (and regulated) medical profession, the latter being a woowoo diagnostic method used by chiropractors like our friend David Flowers. AK has nothing to do with the actual science of Kinesiology, only borrows the word in order to lend itself credibility. As a rule, anything with "Applied" in it is generally nonsense, as that provides a loophole through which a quack can use the medical term without having to provide any qualification. No real doctor uses any "applied" techniques.

Since I'm not a lazy cut-n-paster, I used the practice of "Applied Googling" to find some proper links:

http://www.skepdic.com/akinesiology.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_kinesiology
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3372923
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/applied+kinesiology

[CurtC]

A few years ago, a friend of my wife's told her that her daughter was diagnosed with an allergy to chicken. The way this was figured out is that the mom took the daughter to a chiropractor. The girl sat in the mom's lap, the chiropractor said the name of a food - "corn" - and then he tugged on the mom's arm. When the chiro said "chicken" he determined that the mom's arm was somewhat more resistant to his tug.

Therefore the daughter had an allergy to chicken. This is applied kenesiology. I kid you not - it's just that stupid.

[Robo Sapien]

A few years ago, a friend of my wife's told her that her daughter was diagnosed with an allergy to chicken. The way this was figured out is that the mom took the daughter to a chiropractor. The girl sat in the mom's lap, the chiropractor said the name of a food - "corn" - and then he tugged on the mom's arm. When the chiro said "chicken" he determined that the mom's arm was somewhat more resistant to his tug.

Therefore the daughter had an allergy to chicken. This is applied kenesiology. I kid you not - it's just that stupid.



Patient: "So what's wrong with me, doc?"

Chiropractor: "You've got teepee bungholitis"

Patient: "Are you pulling my leg?"

Chiropractor: "No, I'm pulling your arm. Why?"

[wardenclyffe]

Here's our old pal, The Amazing Randi (remember him?) putting the double-D-bunk on both Applied Kinesiology AND Crystal Power at the same time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_MzP2MZaOo

Enjoy. I know I did.

Ward

[Yuri Nalyssus]

A few years ago, a friend of my wife's told her that her daughter was diagnosed with an allergy to chicken. The way this was figured out is that the mom took the daughter to a chiropractor. The girl sat in the mom's lap, the chiropractor said the name of a food - "corn" - and then he tugged on the mom's arm. When the chiro said "chicken" he determined that the mom's arm was somewhat more resistant to his tug.

Therefore the daughter had an allergy to chicken. This is applied kenesiology. I kid you not - it's just that stupid.

Ah, but did he test for the rare form where the sufferer is allergic to only the male chicken - that sounds much more fun ;)

Yuri

[Yuri Nalyssus]

I would like to talk to someone who can demonstrate how Applied Kinesiology demonstrations used by proponents of CAM products are useless and can explain why. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding whom I should contact about this? Thanks in advance.
This comes down to the "burden of truth" - there is no proper evidence that applied kinesiology is effective (individual anecdotes are not valid evidence) and no mechanism by which it could work. The onus is on proponents to prove it works, not on any one else to prove it doesn't.

If I told you I was looking at a real live unicorn on my front lawn right now it would be a bit unreasonable of me to expect you to prove beyond doubt that I wasn't (anyway, it's gone now).

Hope that helps,

Yuri

[UNLoVedRebel]

A few years ago, a friend of my wife's told her that her daughter was diagnosed with an allergy to chicken. The way this was figured out is that the mom took the daughter to a chiropractor. The girl sat in the mom's lap, the chiropractor said the name of a food - "corn" - and then he tugged on the mom's arm. When the chiro said "chicken" he determined that the mom's arm was somewhat more resistant to his tug.

Therefore the daughter had an allergy to chicken. This is applied kenesiology. I kid you not - it's just that stupid.:jaw-dropp

I had a friend who had a very similar experience to this. The "professional" concluded that she was allergic to chicken by doing some type of "test" involving the arm and torso.

[steve s]

Here's our old pal, The Amazing Randi (remember him?) putting the double-D-bunk on both Applied Kinesiology AND Crystal Power at the same time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_MzP2MZaOo

Enjoy. I know I did.

Ward

Near the end, the AK woman says "I suppose that means that rat poison is good for her." Randi should have asked her why the other samples of rat poison didn't work, also.

Steve S

[Hitch]

Near the end, the AK woman says "I suppose that means that rat poison is good for her." Randi should have asked her why the other samples of rat poison didn't work, also.

Steve S

I would guess he was running out of time for the segment and had to get to a commercial break. Also, there's not much that could be added to that to make it sound any sillier.

[TheSkepticCanuck]

Here's our old pal, The Amazing Randi (remember him?) putting the double-D-bunk on both Applied Kinesiology AND Crystal Power at the same time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_MzP2MZaOo

Enjoy. I know I did.

Ward

My only complaint about that test is that they didn't do a control test with the known crystal in the cloth bag. This would have allowed the woman to show that she was able to get the result she wanted with the crystal in the bag, and thus eliminate that as an excuse when the actual test was performed.

[wardenclyffe]

Well, yes it's not a perfect test. Was it a test of crystal power or a test of applied kinesiology? It's too messy to do both at once. And there was no open test. This wasn't a MDC test, it was a quick and dirty TV test. It's very entertaining and suspenseful, which is rare in skepticism. In promoting skepticism, I believe that an imperfect, but entertaining demonstration is much more useful than a perfectly controlled boring demonstration.

Ward

[wardenclyffe]

Also, it's implied that plenty of pre-testing was done by the practioner. It could have been done weeks before, but I'm guessing that it happened mostly backstage just prior to the demostration.

Ward

[Hitch]

My only complaint about that test is that they didn't do a control test with the known crystal in the cloth bag. This would have allowed the woman to show that she was able to get the result she wanted with the crystal in the bag, and thus eliminate that as an excuse when the actual test was performed.

The two women got what they agreed was a positive result from a lump of rat poison.

If they had not gotten a positive result, it would have shown that the test was meaningless. But they got hit... from rat poison.


Rat poison.

[CurtC]

Yes, they got a "hit" from rat poison, and that was good enough, but it would have been better to test the known crystal in the cloth sack first.

That would have cut off that one excuse, but then again, how can you foresee what excuse someone is going to come up with? If they had done it with the control in the sack, she would have just come up with another excuse upon her failure. It's like playing Whack-a-Mole with excuses.

[Robo Sapien]

Yes, they got a "hit" from rat poison, and that was good enough, but it would have been better to test the known crystal in the cloth sack first.

That would have cut off that one excuse, but then again, how can you foresee what excuse someone is going to come up with? If they had done it with the control in the sack, she would have just come up with another excuse upon her failure. It's like playing Whack-a-Mole with excuses.



That is why you bring in a psychic, they can tell you in advance which excuses will be used.