Home Depot fires employee who stopped a thief

[Temporal Renegade]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Apparently, it's against store policy to stop theft:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/70829023

[The Fool]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Apparently, it's against store policy to stop theft:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/70829023
would it be fairer to say that the company policy is to deal with theft according to thier anti theft policies and procedures and also have a firm policy against staff physically grappling with armed thieves? This is very common stuff, I don't know of many companies who would think it a good idea for thier staff to persue and attempt to arrest armed thieves.

[schplurg]

I agree with The Fool. A store like that must have a policy forbidding employees from entering into a dangerous situation, if for no other reason than to avoid lawsuits. I do think going so far as to fire these guys was a mistake.

[The Fool]

I do think going so far as to fire these guys was a mistake.
on the face of it I agree with this......but unfortunately in these sort of stories the individual can say what they wish but the company is often unable to discuss an individuals case due to privacy concerns. The guy can say he never heard of the policy but even if this was his final warning after 5 cases of him bashing children for pocketing candy they may not be able to point that out to the paper.....or maybe they did but it doesn't make for a good story and is "accidentally" left out....

[TragicMonkey]

I worked for a large retail chain once. Their policy was to not confront shoplifters. Not because they cared about the safety of the employees (of course not!) but because they were terrified of the following scenario:

Employee sees Thief slip merchandise into pocket, bag, or purse.
Thief moves around store.
Thief, unseen by employee, quickly dumps the merchandise somewhere in the store.
Employee confronts Thief.
Thief has nothing on him/her.
Big noisy public fuss. Bad publicity. Scandal. "This store treats customers like criminals!!!" Lawsuits. Firings. Drop in sales.

So we were told that if we saw somebody steal stuff, just ignore it. As a result, of course, our store lost enormously to theft.

Which the company decided was employee theft, so we had to be searched every time we exited the store. In front of customers, we had to turn out our pockets and stuff. Yeah, that looks good to the public, that our employer treated the employees like thieves.

Retail stinks.

[malbui]

Which the company decided was employee theft, so we had to be searched every time we exited the store. In front of customers, we had to turn out our pockets and stuff. Yeah, that looks good to the public, that our employer treated the employees like thieves.


The store where I worked Saturdays and vacations in my last couple of years of school had a similar policy and so we couldn't leave until a member of management had inspected our bags and pockets. What made this surreal was that this was a furniture store. I suppose someone might have tried to steal a sofa piece by piece over a period of years, but I reckon it would have been unlikely.

[Sasha]

I worked for a large retail chain once. Their policy was to not confront shoplifters. Not because they cared about the safety of the employees (of course not!) but because they were terrified of the following scenario:

Employee sees Thief slip merchandise into pocket, bag, or purse.
Thief moves around store.
Thief, unseen by employee, quickly dumps the merchandise somewhere in the store.
Employee confronts Thief.
Thief has nothing on him/her.
Big noisy public fuss. Bad publicity. Scandal. "This store treats customers like criminals!!!" Lawsuits. Firings. Drop in sales.

So we were told that if we saw somebody steal stuff, just ignore it. As a result, of course, our store lost enormously to theft.

Which the company decided was employee theft, so we had to be searched every time we exited the store. In front of customers, we had to turn out our pockets and stuff. Yeah, that looks good to the public, that our employer treated the employees like thieves.

Retail stinks.
The retail stores I worked for in the past told us not to confront the thief but to follow them through the store, never letting them out of our sight, and once they were outside we could call management, police and have them arrested. I once saw a man lift a can of spray paint (this was before sprays were locked up), put it in his coat and leave. When the manager stopped the man we saw the inside of his jacket was coated with different colors. Icky.

[Modified]

The retail stores I worked for in the past told us not to confront the thief but to follow them through the store, never letting them out of our sight, and once they were outside we could call management, police and have them arrested. I once saw a man lift a can of spray paint (this was before sprays were locked up), put it in his coat and leave. When the manager stopped the man we saw the inside of his jacket was coated with different colors. Icky.

They lock up spray paint? That seems awfully inconvenient. Where is this?

[ponderingturtle]

They lock up spray paint? That seems awfully inconvenient. Where is this?

It is not that uncommon. I know in some areas you can not sell spray paint to those under age. It is intended to reduce its use as and inhalant and for vandalism.

[Cain]

Well, now I know I should put Home Depot on the short list of stores to rob if I need to resort to stealing to support my heroin habit. I can also conveniently hire a getaway driver for ten bucks. Cool.

Which the company decided was employee theft, so we had to be searched every time we exited the store. In front of customers, we had to turn out our pockets and stuff. Yeah, that looks good to the public, that our employer treated the employees like thieves.

I have read most stores lose more money due to employee theft -- considerably more. Of course, if the association/group compiling statistics categorizes what you describe here as "employee theft," then their figures are rendered worthless.

Anyway, this guy who caught the thief is young (24), college educated, already a department manager (I'm not sure if that's impressive), and a one-time employee of the year. Getting fired and then getting all this publicity will help him land an even better job. He just sent out his resume to thousands of possible employers and for special skills he put "hero" on it.

[four elevener]

I worked for a large retail chain once. Their policy was to not confront shoplifters. Not because they cared about the safety of the employees (of course not!) but because they were terrified of the following scenario:

Employee sees Thief slip merchandise into pocket, bag, or purse.
Thief moves around store.
Thief, unseen by employee, quickly dumps the merchandise somewhere in the store.
Employee confronts Thief.
Thief has nothing on him/her.
Big noisy public fuss. Bad publicity. Scandal. "This store treats customers like criminals!!!" Lawsuits. Firings. Drop in sales.

So we were told that if we saw somebody steal stuff, just ignore it. As a result, of course, our store lost enormously to theft.

Which the company decided was employee theft, so we had to be searched every time we exited the store. In front of customers, we had to turn out our pockets and stuff. Yeah, that looks good to the public, that our employer treated the employees like thieves.

Retail stinks.

Wouldn't the security cameras catch the thief doing all this? Surely a big retail chain has cameras.

[Sasha]

They lock up spray paint? That seems awfully inconvenient. Where is this?

Texas - the reasons are those that ponderingturtle gave, mostly guarding against underage inhaling. Yes, it was very inconvenient for the store personnel who had to ask young-looking people for ID, and for anyone buying it legitimately who had to wait around for help.

[TragicMonkey]

Wouldn't the security cameras catch the thief doing all this? Surely a big retail chain has cameras.

Snort. Retail chains don't make money by spending it. In my bitter and distant past I worked in three different retail places, all of them national chains. In one, two thirds of the "cameras" were fake. In the other two stores, all of the "cameras" were fake.

Only the physically largest stores are going to have real cameras, and staff to watch them. Non-anchor mall stores, even the ones that do a million bucks a year in business, don't have the time, space, or interest.

[AgeGap]

Sometimes stealing from work is the only job satisfaction you get.

[Temporal Renegade]

You'd think they'd *want* to stop theft, and keep money in the store, since they paid that CEO $200-plus million in severance.

[CptColumbo]

At a retail store where I used to work, let's call it the Bullseye Boutique, a security person stopped a thief and during a struggle blows were exchanged. The security person was terminated, due to violation of store policy. IMO companies are more concerned with civil action if the suspect or security guard is injured than the actual loss of the product.

[fuelair]

The store where I worked Saturdays and vacations in my last couple of years of school had a similar policy and so we couldn't leave until a member of management had inspected our bags and pockets. What made this surreal was that this was a furniture store. I suppose someone might have tried to steal a sofa piece by piece over a period of years, but I reckon it would have been unlikely.
Maybe they suspected someone was surrepticiously clipping off the "Do Not Remove This Tag" tags to make a rug or blanket. Many and mysterious are the ways of great minds.

[fuelair]

Well, now I know I should put Home Depot on the short list of stores to rob if I need to resort to stealing to support my heroin habit. I can also conveniently hire a getaway driver for ten bucks. Cool.



I have read most stores lose more money due to employee theft -- considerably more. Of course, if the association/group compiling statistics categorizes what you describe here as "employee theft," then their figures are rendered worthless.

Anyway, this guy who caught the thief is young (24), college educated, already a department manager (I'm not sure if that's impressive), and a one-time employee of the year. Getting fired and then getting all this publicity will help him land an even better job. He just sent out his resume to thousands of possible employers and for special skills he put "hero" on it. And there are many ways (though some won't work at Home Depot due to the chicken trick they do) for employees to steal that these stop and searches won't catch.

I am not a thief, I have just found security interesting since early high school days both in the doing it right and the getting around it modes.

[This Guy]

At a retail store where I used to work, let's call it the Bullseye Boutique, a security person stopped a thief and during a struggle blows were exchanged. The security person was terminated, due to violation of store policy. IMO companies are more concerned with civil action if the suspect or security guard is injured than the actual loss of the product.

I think that is exactly the concern.

If the Home Depot guy had been killed in the struggle with the crook, who would be responsible?

Home Depot would. They would likely be sued by the guys family, in addition to what ever payments they were already obligated to pay in case of a work related death.

It only makes sense to forbid such action, from a business stand point. They lost what? Less than $200 if memory serves. But the potential loss from lawsuits would be in the millions.

[Beanbag]

I worked for a major international jewelry house as a watchmaker. The facility I worked at was also the major warehouse and shipping point for the US operations. How major? When we moved into the new facility, we transferred 45 million dollars worth of inventory.

Anyhow, we had a written company policy concerning theft and robbery. Basically, it said roll over and play dead, let'em take anything they want, put up no resistance. Personally, I supported it whole-heartedly. My only suggestion was that they post it on the front door so as to reassure any nervous, trigger-happy robbers that we'd even gift-wrap the loot for them if they wanted.


Beanbag

[Beanbag]

The point is, if you have a company policy, it does no good unless the policy has been clearly communicated to all employees. I get stuff like this at my present job: Materials department is now closed, you can't just go in and get parts. We made it new policy two weeks ago.

Well, criminy, there's only a dozen of us in one room. How hard would it have been to take 30 seconds to make an announcement in the morning?

Beanbag

[Modified]

I think that is exactly the concern.

If the Home Depot guy had been killed in the struggle with the crook, who would be responsible?

Home Depot would. They would likely be sued by the guys family, in addition to what ever payments they were already obligated to pay in case of a work related death.

It only makes sense to forbid such action, from a business stand point. They lost what? Less than $200 if memory serves. But the potential loss from lawsuits would be in the millions.

A reputation for being tough on shoplifters might save millions though.

[tkingdoll]

This is no different to flouting any other company policy. If it was the company policy that you couldn't look at the internet on company computers, and this guy was fired for doing that, would we have any sympathy?

However, what is odd in this case is that he claims he wasn't aware of the company policy. He was a general manager. It's his job to be familiar with company policy.

So either:

1) He is guilty of incompetence in not being familiar with company policy despite being a manager and employee of the store for seven years, and therefore the firing was justified. Ignorance is no defence if the policy was available at any time. It's his job to be up to speed with company procedure, particularly when it comes to physically accosting the public. I mean, if you manage a store, surely you would be expected to know what the company line is when it comes to apprehending thieves? I find it very odd that he was the manager and never stopped to ask what the official policy on this was.

2) The policy was not ever available for viewing, he was never furnished with a copy (for example when he joined the company), the company made no effort to ensure its staff had read and received copies of this policy. In which case, the company is negligent and he should sue for unfair dismissal. A company policy written in Klingon and tied to a stone which is thrown to the bottom of a chasm somewhere east of Mount Etna is not enforceable, and certainly not grounds for firing.

But given that he doesn't plan to sue, I do wonder if the company policies were on the intranet/pin board/induction pack and he simply failed to read it.

I mean, who reads company policies? They're dull. But that doesn't mean you're not in trouble if you flout one.

ETA: I've just noticed that the main guy is a dept. manager and that the general manager was the second person who was fired. All of the above still stands though.

[Modified]

Anyhow, we had a written company policy concerning theft and robbery. Basically, it said roll over and play dead, let'em take anything they want, put up no resistance. Personally, I supported it whole-heartedly. My only suggestion was that they post it on the front door so as to reassure any nervous, trigger-happy robbers that we'd even gift-wrap the loot for them if they wanted.

Beanbag

My former bank had such a policy and a list of rules posted at each tellers station, unintentionally viewable by the customers. The funniest rule was "If the robber asks for a specific amount of money, give them only that amount."

[TragicMonkey]

My former bank had such a policy and a list of rules posted at each tellers station, unintentionally viewable by the customers. The funniest rule was "If the robber asks for a specific amount of money, give them only that amount."

"I have a gun! Fill this bag with $301, 423.39! Don't make any sudden moves!"

[rjh01]

I have been told that making a citizens arrest is a legal minefield. Use excessive force and you can be sued for assault. Detain a person too long and you can be sued for that too.

But this may depend on where you live in the world.

[Temporal Renegade]

I wonder if this means that we (as customers) shouldn't even bother to report if someone's stuffing merchandise into their jackets. I mean, what's the point?

[pgwenthold]

Anyhow, we had a written company policy concerning theft and robbery. Basically, it said roll over and play dead, let'em take anything they want, put up no resistance.

Assuming they have theft insurance, they could recover a large chunk of the loss, no?

[Loss Leader]

I remember a similar story about an employee of a 7-11 who was fired for stopping a robbery. The 7-11 management guy was quoted in the article as saying that there was nothing in their store that was worth one of their employee's lives.


Also, vote for me in the Pith Poll (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=92011).

[Modified]

I remember a similar story about an employee of a 7-11 who was fired for stopping a robbery. The 7-11 management guy was quoted in the article as saying that there was nothing in their store that was worth one of their employee's lives.

Who cares about the store or what's in it? Stopping a robbery is good for society, and to some people that's worth a certain amount of risk to their lives.

[Mason]

What if the crowbar had been the guy's purchase at Home Depot (a hardware store), and the wad of cash was his wadded up handful of bills that he had recieved in change for his twenty, which he was now sifting through for a single to buy a coke from the machine he was standing in front of? Startled when this aggressive employee darts up and confronts him with "What do you think you're doing?", he quickly backs off, and finds his aggressor chasing him across the parking lot...

Would you want an unstable employee chasing and tackling people in the parking lot? Even if he didn't know company policy was to avoid chasing people and tackling them in the parking lot? Especially if his reason was "instinct just took over". I doubt any hardware store wants employees who instinctively tackle people who are carrying hardware.

Sure, this time things may have worked out, but the guy apparently is confused about why he was wrong, which makes it difficult to trust his judgement in the future.

[CptColumbo]

In the few retail chains I've been involved in, the policy was usually that you had to witness them take the item from the shelf and not lose sight of them, until they left the store. This was to ensure that they didn't dump the item somewhere in an attempt to provoke a false arrest, and lawsuit.