Mark's Interview with Ron

[pomeroo]

The first show we taped can be viewed here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7430656232864058253&hl=en

[Gravy]

Thanks, Ron. People will notice that it didn't quite go as advertised, mostly because I had no conception of time, as usual. It's interesting because the subject later in the show was people who were confused about time.

[pomeroo]

Thanks, Ron. People will notice that it didn't quite go as advertised, mostly because I had no conception of time, as usual. It's interesting because the subject later in the show was people who were confused about time.

You must be reading my mind. I'm sitting here thinking that we're complaining that people in the buildings had no time sense, and I'm--once again! (my anecdote about the Thin Man film)--the most egregious offender. I claimed it took us seven minutes to get around to the topic, and it really took twelve. What can I say? I'm a hopeless dunce sometimes. I wonder how many times that line will get quoted?

[~enigma~]

I'm a hopeless dunce sometimes.
Do I get a prize for being first?

[pomeroo]

Do I get a prize for being first?


Back in high school, a friend of mine raffled off a ham--two bits for a ticket. He pocketed about twelve bucks, then announced the winning number. The guy with the matching ticket asked for his ham. My friend informed him that there was no ham. The guy developed what ballplayers delicately describe as the "red ass", but my friend calmed him down and provided the proper perspective. He explained: "This was a game of chance. You took a chance and lost."

[~enigma~]

Back in high school, a friend of mine raffled off a ham--two bits for a ticket. He pocketed about twelve bucks, then announced the winning number. The guy with the matching ticket asked for his ham. My friend informed him that there was no ham. The guy developed what ballplayers delicately describe as the "red ass", but my friend calmed him down and provided the proper perspective. He explained: "This was a game of chance. You took a chance and lost."
A simple no would suffice :)

[Gravy]

Oops. I said Schroeder was with Engine Company 5. It was 10.

[pomeroo]

A simple no would suffice :)


Whatsamatter, you don't like parables?

[pomeroo]

Oops. I said Schroeder was with Engine Company 5. It was 10.


I actually noticed that, but I lacked the cajones to correct you. The reason I remembered that it was Company 10 is that you mention it in your paper.

[~enigma~]

Whatsamatter, you don't like parables?
No...and I want my prize :(

[pomeroo]

No...and I want my prize :(


Uh, do you happen to like ham? Makes a nice sammich.

[~enigma~]

Uh, do you happen to like ham? Makes a nice sammich.
No pork...so if the prize is ham it is my gift to you :)

[pomeroo]

No pork...so if the prize is ham it is my gift to you :)


And there are people cynical enough to suspect that I planned the whole thing.

[~enigma~]

And there are people cynical enough to suspect that I planned the whole thing.
You did...you never intended to award the prize so you purposely posted knowing I would quote you and win the prize which you knew I wouldn't accept since I don't eat ham....now that's my story and I'm sticking to it :)

[pomeroo]

You did...you never intended to award the prize so you purposely posted knowing I would quote you and win the prize which you knew I wouldn't accept since I don't eat ham....now that's my story and I'm sticking to it :)



I'd have to get up pretty damn early to sneak one past you.

[pomeroo]

You know, in a saner thread, these last few posts might qualify as a derailment.

[LashL]

Thank you, gentlemen, for posting the link. Another excellent show, very nicely done.

For those who are not particularly well versed in the events of 9/11 and for those who are not particularly well versed in the woo emanating from the Loose With the Truth crew, it might be a bit confusing, but for those of us who are well versed, it flowed very well.

The reality is that those who are neophytes to the "twoofers v. skeptics" debate require far more basic discussion than that which any of us here would wish to see, and televised discussions on such basic levels would be boring to most of us here. This isn't "Intro to Twooferism 101" so kudos to you, Mark and Ron, for a job very well done.

As an aside, yes, I noticed the engine 5 mistake, but it has already been addressed and it was no biggie.

Now, about that link to the call-in part of the show...looking forward to it.

[Unsecured Coins]

I'm tellin' lisa!!

[pomeroo]

I'm tellin' lisa!!


By now, Lisa has engaged a pack of baying hounds to hunt me down.

[The Doc]

Thanks for the link Ron! I look forward to watching this... right now :)

[Unfit4Command]

It's not working for me... :(

Just buffers a lot, I can't even download it. hmmm...

[qarnos]

I'm tellin' lisa!!

I clicked your avatar - now where's my Playstation 2?

If I don't get it soon you can have your stinkin' Christ back.

[The Doc]

Good interview, informative and very well conducted! Thanks guys.

[Stellafane]

Back in high school, a friend of mine raffled off a ham--two bits for a ticket. He pocketed about twelve bucks, then announced the winning number. The guy with the matching ticket asked for his ham. My friend informed him that there was no ham. The guy developed what ballplayers delicately describe as the "red ass", but my friend calmed him down and provided the proper perspective. He explained: "This was a game of chance. You took a chance and lost."

That sounds very suspiciously like an incident Jim Bouton wrote about in Ball Four (right down to the exact same punch line, virtually word-for-word). Not saying it didn't happen (maybe your friend got the idea from the book), just sayin'.

[pomeroo]

That sounds very suspiciously like an incident Jim Bouton wrote about in Ball Four (right down to the exact same punch line, virtually word-for-word). Not saying it didn't happen (maybe your friend got the idea from the book), just sayin'.



You win the prize (and it isn't a ham)! It IS the incident from Ball Four. Here's the whole story.

The friend, who really exists (I certainly hope he still does), actually attempted to raffle off an imaginary ham and managed to con a few guys out of their quarters. He told me about the Mickey Mantle story from Bouton's book, which I had not yet read. I cautioned him against perpetrating this swindle, having in mind his size relative to the size of the people he was targeting. He saw the light and returned the quarters. One of his intended victims assured him that if he had held the winning number, he would have gotten a ham, one way or another. It had an ominous ring.

For the sake of complete accuracy, I should mention that I was attending Queens College when this incident took place. The friend was the editor of the "Culture" section of the campus newspaper, "The Phoenix," and had achieved a certain degree of notoriety for managing to publish a photo of nude girls frolicking in muddy water at Woodstock. Jay went on to a career in jornalism, worked at the now-defunct "Long Island Press" for a while, and eventually left New York. A freaky, funny guy who wore tie-dyed tee shirts and beads and used to challenge me to White Castle burger-eating contests, he left some good memories. I miss being young.

When Enigma asked about his prize, my first thought was, What prize? Immediately, the Bouton story and Jay's attempt to replicate it came to mind. I was wondering if anyone would recognize it.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

"Originally aired September 4, 2007. "

It's a conspiracy!!!

[mjd1982]

When you guys decided to address testimonies, why didnt you address any of the ones on this thread?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=90228

[Par]

I think it might have already been said, but when is the other episode to be released?

[Gravy]

I think it might have already been said, but when is the other episode to be released?As soon as we stop laughing.

[Unsecured Coins]

I clicked your avatar - now where's my Playstation 2?

If I don't get it soon you can have your stinkin' Christ back.

Moses is delivering it. Seeing how legend has him taking 40 years to deliver God's Chosen ones to Israel, you might wanna get another hobby to pass the time

[NYCEMT86]

As soon as we stop laughing.

The last guy that called in during the live show, that was brilliant, I didn't think you could have gotten a better example of an extreme twoofer than that guy. As I told Ron, I am voting for Exxon-Mobile for in the 08 presidency!

[Pardalis]

Rewatching it again for the bits I missed. Terrific show (of course too short).

It seems I had missed alot in the beginning, and I find it a very good introduction for people who aren't aware of these CTs.

ETA: just realized that this is not the live show, no wonder I had missed alot. :D

[Hyperviolet]

Very good show.
Thanks to both of you gentlemen!

I think the show was slower paced than most hardfire shows, although for those less versed in the 9/11 CT's i'm sure it was easier to follow.

What's funny is now the truthers can finally answer Mark's looming question:
Name one thing i got wrong..
Schroeder's engine number!
Hey, just maybe this man might not have a CIA implanted 'brain' and 'memory' after all.

Either that or Gravy was bonging hard on chemtrails before the show.
Great Scott, Marty!

[Alt+F4]

Ron, did you try to get John Schoeder as a guest?

[qarnos]

Ron, did you try to get John Schoeder as a guest?

I don't think that would be a particularly good idea. John is a guy who risked his life on 9/11 to help others and is now having troubles trying to come to terms with the events of that day.

He is not a play-thing for skeptics and troofers to pull at in a tug-o-war to try and "win" his support. Let's not descend to their level.

My 2c.

[Alt+F4]

I don't think that would be a particularly good idea. John is a guy who risked his life on 9/11 to help others and is now having troubles trying to come to terms with the events of that day.

He is not a play-thing for skeptics and troofers to pull at in a tug-o-war to try and "win" his support. Let's not descend to their level.

My 2c.

Maybe, maybe not, but that should be something for him to decide. I know several members of the FDNY (including my brother-in-law) who were there that day. Some feel talking about it is cathartic, other won't talk about it all. Everyone deals with grief and stress differently.

[PhantomWolf]

You know, in a saner thread, these last few posts might qualify as a derailment.

I don't know, it just looked like you talking to yourself to me. ;)

[mjd1982]

When you guys decided to address testimonies, why didnt you address any of the ones on this thread?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=90228

[Totovader]

Too short- otherwise terrific show.

I think there's plenty of material for a series of short shows like this... "An evening with Gravy" if you like...

[Par]

Too short- otherwise terrific show.

I think there's plenty of material for a series of short shows like this... "An evening with Gravy" if you like...


You're right there. It could make for many hours of fascinating interview.

[Mangoose]

I enjoyed the show very much. I wish it could go for a full hour!

[pomeroo]

I don't know, it just looked like you talking to yourself to me. ;)


That's the impression I got.

[Gravy]

I forgot to mention that my website URL doesn't appear during the show. People won't know how to read the papers we're referring to. :(

[pomeroo]

I forgot to mention that my website URL doesn't appear during the show. People won't know how to read the papers we're referring to. :(


I sent Gary an e-mail containing your URL.

[~enigma~]

I sent Gary an e-mail containing your URL.
Got the video up for the 2nd show yet (od did I miss it)?

[Gravy]

I sent Gary an e-mail containing your URL.Thanks, Ron. I was forgetting that it's still editable.

Got the video up for the 2nd show yet (od did I miss it)?Not yet. The producer had to have his funny bone surgically removed. Otherwise editing that show could have been fatal to him.

[~enigma~]

Not yet. The producer had to have his funny bone surgically removed. Otherwise editing that show could have been fatal to him.
You do realize that your respone makes me want to hear it even more. For my sake, it better be up before the 10th.

[Oliver]

WOO HOO!!!
The second show is online! :D


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5897403967830015965&q=Hardfire+MARK+ROBERTS&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=1&type=search&plindex=0


AthVN963unc

[Gravy]

Aha! Thanks, Oliver.

For those who don't know him, Paul Isaac posted here as Sentinel before he was banned for being abusive. For those who do know him, you'll recognize every argument from last year.

We started the show with the policy that we'd really give the truthers a fair listen. But Ron didn't know Isaac's reputation, and we didn't have a prearranged signal, like a kick to the shins, for characters who are known not to ever shut off teh burning crazy.

My tongue almost needed stitches from being bitten so hard while listening to those two nuts.

Thanks to Pat from Screw Loose Change for calling in with a sane, worthwhile question!

[~enigma~]

Aha! Thanks, Oliver.

For those who don't know him, Paul Isaac posted here as Sentinel before he was banned for being abusive. For those who do know him, you'll recognize every argument from last year.

We started the show with the policy that we'd really give the truthers a fair listen. But Ron didn't know Isaac's reputation, and we didn't have a prearranged signal, like a kick to the shins, for characters who are known not to ever shut off teh burning crazy.

My tongue almost needed stitches from being bitten so hard while listening to those two nuts.

Thanks to Pat from Screw Loose Change for calling in with a sane, worthwhile question!
Guess I better listen again with headphones this time. That didn't sound like Paul Isaac but it certainly seemed that he was more in the guano catagory now but thankfully he didn't bring up his Indian Point nonsense.

[Civilized Worm]

That was great but you really should have limited it to one question per caller so as to avoid spenting ten minutes dealing with one kook going from question to question to question.

[Par]

That really was a joyous experience. It’s a pity you didn’t get to talk about 9/11 all that much, but maybe next time (and I sincerely hope there is a next time, too). I agree with CW above, there should be a time limit of some kind. Both of the agitators who called in had their claims about 9/11 immediately refuted and so had to fall back on extremely vague and broad claims about Iraq and oil and, curiously, libraries.

[Civilized Worm]

Yeah it would help to restrict questions to those that directly relate to 9/11 as too often twoofer will move on to stuff about Iraq and the Patriot Act that they know many of us will agree with to some extent.

[Hyperviolet]

That was great but you really should have limited it to one question per caller so as to avoid spenting ten minutes dealing with one kook going from question to question to question.

I agree.

Paul Isaac consumed far too much time, covering way too many broad topics and not making enough specific claims.

It's definetely worth doing again, however, i'd suggest that Ron regulates the callers a little more in future (which is obviously easier said now in retrospect).

Most of time in this episode was spend on Iraq, oil, and other non-conspiracy related topics, unfortunately.

Anyway, thanks again to both Gravy and Pomeroo for the entertaining show.

[Gravy]

Most of time in this episode was spend on Iraq, oil, and other non-conspiracy related topics, unfortunately.The points are well-taken, but I think this is what Ron was allowing to be conveyed: that (at least) these people cannot put forth a coherent argument about 9/11, and that they resort to scattershot, irrational "connect this" statements. If we do another call-in show, we do need to take more calls, and to ask if the callers have questions rather than manifestos. But it's unlikely that we'll get anyone as long-windedly crazy as Paul Isaac.

[Jonnyclueless]

Someone let me know when it makes it to youtube. google video is too unreliable for me. It gets part way in and just stops. Then I have to relaod and watch all over again until it stops at another spot, and so on and so on...

[Hyperviolet]

Someone let me know when it makes it to youtube. google video is too unreliable for me. It gets part way in and just stops. Then I have to relaod and watch all over again until it stops at another spot, and so on and so on...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rig2VkiDQCM

There you go, Jonny.

Enjoy.

[Civilized Worm]

The points are well-taken, but I think this is what Ron was allowing to be conveyed: that (at least) these people cannot put forth a coherent argument about 9/11, and that they resort to scattershot, irrational "connect this" statements. If we do another call-in show, we do need to take more calls, and to ask if the callers have questions rather than manifestos. But it's unlikely that we'll get anyone as long-windedly crazy as Paul Isaac.


You're right, it was a good example of twoofers arguing techniques, but we've already seen that with the Loosers and Uncle Fetzer so I think most viewers will get the idea by now.