Out of cheese error!!! ++Redo From Start++

[Cuddles]

When my PC starts up, just after it detects the drives it gives an error saying something along the lines of "CMOS checksum error - using default values". Does anyone know a good reason it might do this? The part that really confuzzles me is that it already has everything set to default, and since there don't seem to be any problems after choosing the "press F1 to continue" option the error doesn't actually seem to do anything.

One thing I've wondered is if it could be because I don't have a floppy drive. Would it complain if it can't find one? I'd have thought it would just ignore it, but I really can't think of anything else. I should mention that I built it all myself, so asking the vendor isn't really an option.

[Psi Baba]

When my PC starts up, just after it detects the drives it gives an error saying something along the lines of "CMOS checksum error - using default values". Does anyone know a good reason it might do this? The part that really confuzzles me is that it already has everything set to default, and since there don't seem to be any problems after choosing the "press F1 to continue" option the error doesn't actually seem to do anything.

One thing I've wondered is if it could be because I don't have a floppy drive. Would it complain if it can't find one? I'd have thought it would just ignore it, but I really can't think of anything else. I should mention that I built it all myself, so asking the vendor isn't really an option.
I've seen that message when the CMOS battery starts to die. Is your clock always wrong? That could be a clue that it's the CMOS battery.

[tsg]

Try going into the Bios and saving it. If you still get that error on later startups, it may be the battery.

[JonnyFive]

I will add another "it's the battery" opinion. You can get that error if the BIOS settings are incorrectly set, or if the computer crashes while trying to set them. I've seen it while trying to overclock through the BIOS a couple times when I set the values outside the range the motherboard liked.

But if you're getting it without having changed anything, it is probably the battery started to go. If it still happens when you change it, you may have trouble, but worry about that when you get there. :)

[Cuddles]

Well, I've tried replacing the battery with no effect whatsoever. Unfortunately I replaced it with an even older one from a different computer, so that probably doesn't prove anything at all. However, it's been doing this pretty much since I first bought it, although it was probably hidden by some other problems to start with. Also, there have never been any problems with the clock, or anything else for that matter. Are suppliers in the habit of selling motherboards with dead batteries?

[JonnyFive]

Well, I've tried replacing the battery with no effect whatsoever. Unfortunately I replaced it with an even older one from a different computer, so that probably doesn't prove anything at all. However, it's been doing this pretty much since I first bought it, although it was probably hidden by some other problems to start with. Also, there have never been any problems with the clock, or anything else for that matter. Are suppliers in the habit of selling motherboards with dead batteries?

Not generally, no. Have you checked the BIOS setup? Is anything wonky in there?

[Kilgore Trout]

Have you tried going into the BIOS and saving it as tsg suggested? I'd second that notion. Go into the BIOS, check all the settings (like no A: as you have no floppy), check the boot order (to be sure it isn't trying to boot off the nonexistent A: or something similar) then save the changes.

Odd things can happen to the BIOS that may not be related to a dead battery. Twice now, on a very hard (blue screen) crash on my XP computer, the BIOS suddenly decided that my hard drives were gone. It wouldn't report an error, but it also wouldn't report any hard drives, and it failed with no boot device. After a couple scary moments, I went into the BIOS, had it autodetect all hard drives, and it booted just fine.

[ElMondoHummus]

Have you tried going into the BIOS and saving it as tsg suggested? I'd second that notion. Go into the BIOS, check all the settings (like no A: as you have no floppy), check the boot order (to be sure it isn't trying to boot off the nonexistent A: or something similar) then save the changes.

Odd things can happen to the BIOS that may not be related to a dead battery. Twice now, on a very hard (blue screen) crash on my XP computer, the BIOS suddenly decided that my hard drives were gone. It wouldn't report an error, but it also wouldn't report any hard drives, and it failed with no boot device. After a couple scary moments, I went into the BIOS, had it autodetect all hard drives, and it booted just fine.

Those symptoms are so very indicative of either a dying battery (which you checked) or a defective BIOS. I'd see if the motherboard manufacturer has any sort of update for it. That might get it more stable.

If neither suggestion works out, try thinking really outside the box. For example, make sure the motherboard isn't grounding out funny, like a surface with a trace touching any part of the case. Or, replace all but one of the metal screws holding the motherboard with nylon standoffs (you can get those at Radio Shack or other electronics hobby stores, and yes, I have personally seen that fix bluescreens and other sorts of odd problems before). Or make sure the cables themselves aren't defective; you may want to try removing your mboard and power supply from the case and doing very bare boots; only enough RAM to boot, the hard drive, and the video card installed. Then, add components, and see if the problems start with the addition of a component.

If all else fails and the thing's still under warranty, I'd see what the manufacturer's tech support has to say. It's always worth checking with the vendors or manufacturers in case there's a recall.

Aside: I have no life. I even do work-like activities when I'm not at work. :(

Dream sequence
William Shatner: I mean, look at you! You've turned an enjoyable little job into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! I mean, how old are you? What have you done with yourself? You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?
(Elmondohummus hangs his head)
William Shatner: I didn't think so! There's a whole world out there! GET A LIFE, will ya!

[Kilgore Trout]

Was that for my particular problem? Oh this hasn't happened in several months now.. I was just pointing out that experience to Cuddles as a way to say that odd stuff happens to BIOSes that aren't necessarily the battery and my solution was to check the settings, correct a little problem, save, and it was fine. (My clock and settings are still just fine, several months later, so the battery wasn't an issue.)

[ElMondoHummus]

Was that for my particular problem? Oh this hasn't happened in several months now.. I was just pointing out that experience to Cuddles as a way to say that odd stuff happens to BIOSes that aren't necessarily the battery and my solution was to check the settings, correct a little problem, save, and it was fine. (My clock and settings are still just fine, several months later, so the battery wasn't an issue.)

Ah. Okay. Wasn't clear on that. Thanks.

Although, rereading the OP, some of what I said can apply to that symptom too, oddly enough; for example, the grounding out suggestion.

[Cuddles]

Right, it's not the battery, it's not any settings and it's not any drivers. The only thing left seems to be the BIOS, but when I try to update it the Flash utility just gives me a funny error. Is there some clever thing I'm missing when I try to do anything? For some reason they didn't feel the need to include any instructions with the update files.

[Kilgore Trout]

You could try resetting the BIOS to its defaults by way of a jumper on the motherboard and then update it, if need be. (Not sure if there is one of those on every motherboard, but should be.)

[wuschel]

Right, it's not the battery, it's not any settings and it's not any drivers. The only thing left seems to be the BIOS, but when I try to update it the Flash utility just gives me a funny error. Is there some clever thing I'm missing when I try to do anything? For some reason they didn't feel the need to include any instructions with the update files.What is the actual error message you are getting? (...from the flash utility)

Also, there may be an option in the BIOS to enable/disable flash write protection which might default to "enabled".

If you enter the setup. load defaults and then save and exit, does the checksum error re-occur immediately on the following reboot or do you have to boot into the OS first before the error would show up again?

[Cuddles]

What is the actual error message you are getting? (...from the flash utility)

It gives this as an error log:
CauseWay DOS Extender v3.49 Copyright 1992-99 Michael Devore.
All rights reserved.

Exception: 0D, Error code: 0000

EAX=FFF80000 EBX=00080000 ECX=00080000 EDX=02B50038 ESI=02B50038
EDI=FFF80000 EBP=02A2A6A0 ESP=02A2A664 EIP=02A00017 EFL=00013086

CS=027F-FD600000 DS=0287-FD600000 ES=0287-FD600000
FS=0000-xxxxxxxx GS=028F-xxxxxxxx SS=0287-FD600000

CR0=00000000 CR2=00000000 CR3=00000000 TR=0000

Info flags=00008018

Program Linear Load Address: 02A00000

CS:EIP > 8A 07 E6 E0 E6 E1 88 06 46 47 E2 F4 61 C3 CF F6
C4 80 74 15 06 66 9C 50 A1 D4 8E A2 02 8E C0 58
26 E8 93 8E 02 00 07 EB 02 B0 03 CF FF D0 C3 60
89 D5 FF D0 66 89 44 24 1C 61 C3 60 89 DE 89 D5
FF D0 66 89 44 24 1C 61 C3 55 0F B6 EC 83 FD 09
73 09 C1 E5 02 FF 95 74 00 A0 02 5D C3 98 00 A0
02 C7 00 A0 02 F0 00 A0 02 10 01 A0 02 2E 01 A0
02 5D 01 A0 02 72 01 A0 02 7C 01 A0 02 88 01 A0
02 3C 00 75 16 66 8B 0D 91 90 A2 02 66 8B 15 93
90 A2 02 8B 1D 95 90 A2 02 EB 14 66 8B 0D 99 90
A2 02 66 8B 15 9B 90 A2 02 8B 1D 9D 90 A2 02 C3
89 C8 E8 89 93 00 00 C3 89 C8 E8 28 94 00 00 C3
60 BB CF 00 A0 02 08 C0 74 05 BB C7 00 A0 02 BE
74 00 A0 02 89 5E 04 61 C3 50 52 3C 00 75 07 E8
94 00 00 00 EB 10 3C 01 75 07 E8 92 00 00 00 EB
05 E8 96 00 00 00 5A 58 C3 60 3C 00 75 07 E8 92


SS:ESP > E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 A0 A6 A2 02 84 A6 A2 02
00 00 08 00 38 00 B5 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 F8 FF
D9 AB A0 02 00 00 08 00 38 00 B5 02 00 F0 00 00
E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 00 00 00 00 90 A7 A2 02
60 5A A0 02 00 62 00 00 BC A6 A2 02 D8 A7 A2 02
E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 02 00 00 00 02 00 00 00
00 00 08 00 2E 02 00 00 4B 03 01 00 58 14 60 BF
08 02 08 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 A0 02 3C 00 00 00
AC 01 00 00 53 53 54 00 72 69 63 46 6C 61 73 68
00 00 34 39 4C 46 30 30 34 41 2F 42 00 00 00 00
F0 00 00 00 3E 01 00 00 00 00 06 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 60 00 A0 02 3C 00 00 00 3D 00 00 00
49 39 37 35 2D 36 41 37 39 52 47 30 00 00 43 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 36 E3 A1 02
00 00 08 00 00 00 08 00 98 00 00 00 98 00 00 00
38 10 D1 02 03 00 00 00 38 00 A4 02 00 F0 00 00


00 00 00 00 02 02 00 00 7E 53 00 00 00 F0 00 00
00 00 00 00 E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 00 00 00 00
38 00 B5 02 F8 A5 A2 02 13 98 A0 02 00 00 00 00
A0 52 0F 00 B0 52 0F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
B0 52 0F 00 03 00 A8 01 E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02
00 00 00 00 38 00 B5 02 24 A6 A2 02 FE 98 A0 02
01 00 00 00 59 00 A0 02 E0 3D A2 02 24 A6 A2 02
87 02 A2 02 E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 00 00 00 00
7C A3 A0 02 2E 02 00 00 4B 03 01 00 58 14 60 BF
08 02 08 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 A0 02 3C 00 00 00
AC 01 00 00 53 53 54 00 72 69 63 46 6C 61 73 68
00 00 34 39 4C 46 30 30 34 41 2F 42 00 00 00 00
00 00 F8 FF E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 A0 A6 A2 02
84 A6 A2 02 00 00 08 00 38 00 B5 02 00 00 00 00
00 00 F8 FF D9 AB A0 02 00 00 08 00 38 00 B5 02
00 F0 00 00 E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 00 00 00 00
SS:EBP > 90 A7 A2 02 60 5A A0 02 00 62 00 00 BC A6 A2 02
D8 A7 A2 02 E0 3D A2 02 31 9A A2 02 02 00 00 00
02 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 2E 02 00 00 4B 03 01 00
58 14 60 BF 08 02 08 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 A0 02
3C 00 00 00 AC 01 00 00 53 53 54 00 72 69 63 46
6C 61 73 68 00 00 34 39 4C 46 30 30 34 41 2F 42
00 00 00 00 F0 00 00 00 3E 01 00 00 00 00 06 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 A0 02 3C 00 00 00
3D 00 00 00 49 39 37 35 2D 36 41 37 39 52 47 30
00 00 43 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
36 E3 A1 02 00 00 08 00 00 00 08 00 98 00 00 00
98 00 00 00 38 10 D1 02 03 00 00 00 38 00 A4 02
00 F0 00 00 BC A7 A2 02 80 01 00 00 00 48 00 00
0D 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1C 00 00 E0 3D A2 02
31 9A A2 02 98 00 00 00 BC A7 A2 02 98 00 00 00
E8 A7 A2 02 AA 53 A0 02 0D 1C 00 00 F8 8F A2 02



Application resource tracking details
===========================================


Selectors
=========

sel base limit type D mem count
----------------------------------------
026F 029E0000 00004000 DATA 32 Y xxxx
0277 029E0AE0 000004F5 DATA 32 Y xxxx
027F 00000000 7FFEFFFF CODE 32 N 0001
0287 00000000 7FFEFFFF DATA 32 N 0002
028F 029E0FE0 00000047 DATA 32 Y xxxx

Total selectors: 0005


Linear memory blocks
====================

handle base length
--------------------------
0275B720 02A00000 0002B000
029E0AE0 029E0AE0 000004F8
029E0FE0 029E0FE0 00000048

Total Linear memory: 0002B540 (0002F000) in 00000003 blocks


Linear memory locked
====================

base length
-----------------
CBD002A0 0000000B


DOS memory blocks
=================

sel base length
----------------------


Protected mode interrupt vectors
================================

No sel offset
----------------
1B 027F 02A00025
24 027F 02A00026


Protected mode exception vectors
================================

No sel offset
----------------


Real mode interrupt vectors
===========================

No seg offset
-------------


Call-Backs
==========

real target
-----------------------

Also, there may be an option in the BIOS to enable/disable flash write protection which might default to "enabled".

Unfortunately the choices are "enabled" or "auto". It's quite possible this is the problem, but I have no idea how to get around it.

If you enter the setup. load defaults and then save and exit, does the checksum error re-occur immediately on the following reboot or do you have to boot into the OS first before the error would show up again?

It only happens on a hard restart. Restarting from either the BIOS or from Windows doesn't give it.

[Cuddles]

Right, ignore the problems with updating stuff, I seem to have worked that one out now. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have actually helped matters. Any more ideas?

[wuschel]

Right, ignore the problems with updating stuff, I seem to have worked that one out now.
I sent your crash dump to Sylvia Browne and she replied she senses that you might have tried to run the update utility under Windows. Would this count as a hit?
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have actually helped matters. Any more ideas?
In order to further figure out which state transition triggers the error condition, there's still some telling apart to do. You say a simple reset doesn't.

Next thing to try would be S0->S5 without any BIOS involvement.

For this, while the computer is running, hold the power button (press and do not release) until the computer switches itself off. Usually, this takes at least 4-5 seconds.

If you turn it on again and the error shows, software (including BIOS) is unlikely to be the cause.

Also interesting would be the effect of a S0->G3 transition. This sounds really technical but effectively requires you to remove the power plug (or the battery, if this is a laptop) while the system is running and see what happens once power is restored.

Don't do any of this while the system is still booting, since otherwise CMOS checksum errors might be normal.

Do you have any information as far as the make/model of your mainboard, BTW?

[Cuddles]

I sent your crash dump to Sylvia Browne and she replied she senses that you might have tried to run the update utility under Windows. Would this count as a hit?

I tried running it everywhere I could think of. Turned out there is an update utility hidden somewhere in the BIOS setup so I didn't even need the one they gave me, only the update file itself.

In order to further figure out which state transition triggers the error condition, there's still some telling apart to do. You say a simple reset doesn't.

Next thing to try would be S0->S5 without any BIOS involvement.

For this, while the computer is running, hold the power button (press and do not release) until the computer switches itself off. Usually, this takes at least 4-5 seconds.

If you turn it on again and the error shows, software (including BIOS) is unlikely to be the cause.

Doesn't make any difference. However, turning it off using the power button seems to shut down Windows rather than just turning the computer straight off, so I'm not sure it's actually any different from shutting down normally. I was going to blame this on the updates to the motherboard, but I don't think I've ever tried this before without being forced to by a crash, so it might have done this all along.

Also interesting would be the effect of a S0->G3 transition. This sounds really technical but effectively requires you to remove the power plug (or the battery, if this is a laptop) while the system is running and see what happens once power is restored.

Same as above. Starts up exactly the same as usual, CMOS error and all.

Do you have any information as far as the make/model of your mainboard, BTW?

It's a Gigabyte GA-G1975X

[wuschel]

Same as above. Starts up exactly the same as usual, CMOS error and all.


If a power failure triggers the error, it is rather unlikely that software is involved in any shape or form.


It's a Gigabyte GA-G1975X


Glenwood -> ICH7. I believe there were no known issues as far as power sequencing etc. with this one. (ICH7 would be the southbridge, the part where the CMOS functionality physically resides)

Since you already replaced the battery, trying a different PSU might bring about a difference.

Finally, just for the "fun" of it, you could unplug all drives, plug-in adapters etc. except for keyboard and primary video - even unplug the monitor until the point where supposedly the error message is being displayed - and see if the error is still there -> ruling out that last .01% of a chance the BIOS could be involved.

The reason why you would also unplug the monitor is that, on occasion, these things - with the "help" of the GFX card - have a tendency to feed current back into the system sufficient to sometimes interfere with normal operation.