Burning Man 07

[Alferd_Packer]

Well it looks like even the pyro's at the burning man festival are a little skeptical of 'da twooth."

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=20332&highlight=truth

Actually, the festival (http://www.burningman.com/) sounds kinda fun. I wouldn't mind going there myself, if I could.

[Drudgewire]

Well it looks like even the pyro's at the burning man festival are a little skeptical of 'da twooth."

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=20332&highlight=truth

Actually, the festival sounds kinda fun. I wouldn't mind going there myself, if I could.
Hehehehe, MikeVDS is awesome. :)

Man if I was still into hallucinogens I would SOOOO be there.

[Anti-sophist]

So wait, are they actually gonna build that thing and try to cut the two columns, diagonally, with thermite?

I'd -love- to see that.

[defaultdotxbe]

So wait, are they actually gonna build that thing and try to cut the two columns, diagonally, with thermite?

I'd -love- to see that.
i have a sneaking suspiscion its not going to work, and will be swept under the rug like barretts trip to morocco

[Drudgewire]

i have a sneaking suspiscion its not going to work, and will be swept under the rug like barretts trip to morocco
As long as they don't release the video, most people there will be so dosed they'll swear they saw a holographic plane fly into it just before the thermite was released. :cool:

[NYCEMT86]

Actually I believe everything being talked about was on topic of this art project until you broke in. But Angry chairridden forum junkie has a nice ring to it. Twisted Evil Angry might be off but I can see how that could come across sometimes. Good call Matt. Gotta thank you for this one. Now back on topic:

What else could we take out with some thermite?


That is one funny quote. Especially the last part.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Man, Napalm Dragon over there used a classic thrutherism: "All I'm saying is. . ."

...and this:

It's not startling conclusion to consider that a high security organization would destroy a high security Building when all hell breaks loose.

After the first attacks, WTC 7 may have been redesigned with this intention. Perhaps a security precaution to avoid letting sensitive national security information survive a "bad incident"

That's what I'd do.


You think maybe a "high security organization" might provide, oh... I don't know... high security for all this supposed sensitive information, rather than rigging the building to blow up, thereby distributing all this sensitive information to the wind and the clean-up crews, when things get "bad"?

[ktesibios]

It is irresponsible and juvenile to light thermite on anything less than a full 20 lb. propane tank.

Jeez, and I thought my lab partner back in high school chemistry was a pyro- and all he did was to light my notebook on fire a few times. :)

[8den]

I'm all for taking out the 911Truth people using thermite. Just because you put "truth" in your name doesn't mean you're not completely batsh*t crazy.

Quoted for truth.

[PhantomWolf]

It's not startling conclusion to consider that a high security organization would destroy a high security Building when all hell breaks loose.

After the first attacks, WTC 7 may have been redesigned with this intention. Perhaps a security precaution to avoid letting sensitive national security information survive a "bad incident"

That's what I'd do.


I guess he's the sort that puts selfdestructs into starships. I mean who is dumb enough to transport down to an unstable planet and blow up their only current means of getting off of it?

I guess he hasn't ever heard of a paper shredder or disc degaussing

[Graham2001]

In a related, though sad note, some committed suicide there and people mistook it for art. (http://tinyurl.com/ynktod)

Which is something the 'Truthburn' will never be...

[Minadin]

i have a sneaking suspiscion its not going to work, and will be swept under the rug like barretts trip to morocco

My guess would be that they will be able to find a way to make it work, but it will still be swept under the rug once they see how dazzlingly bright burning thermite actually is. Also, because of this, there will be no decent video of the event.

It looks like they've revamped their design since the last time we heard from them - it's now shorter and uses less steel (thinner gauge they say) so hopefully they'll be able to pull it off. Despite the message that they are trying to convey - which I of course don't agree with at all - I think it would be a cool spectacle to see, if done right, and overall nice as a piece of art. But, I also think that there won't be a whole lot of people who get it right away, unless they become interested and pick up some literature.

They could have probably taken the concept a lot farther if they weren't so married to their 9/11 BS and made it about how they perceive that our society tends to warp or distort fact to something that's more comfortable, filtered for our enjoyment, or just covered up (sound like any movements you know?). But, as it is, I still have the suspicion that many passers-by will be saying, "Oh, I get it! The Truth, The Truth, The Truth is on Fire! We don't need no water . . ."

[fuelair]

Jeez, and I thought my lab partner back in high school chemistry was a pyro- and all he did was to light my notebook on fire a few times. :)
Piker!!~:D :jaw-dropp

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

In a related, though sad note, some committed suicide there and people mistook it for art. (http://tinyurl.com/ynktod)

Which is something the 'Truthburn' will never be...

Well, they had to hide the drugs and come down from their high before calling the cops...

[maccy]

So wait, are they actually gonna build that thing and try to cut the two columns, diagonally, with thermite?

I'd -love- to see that.

i have a sneaking suspiscion its not going to work, and will be swept under the rug like barretts trip to morocco

My guess would be that they will be able to find a way to make it work, but it will still be swept under the rug once they see how dazzlingly bright burning thermite actually is. Also, because of this, there will be no decent video of the event.

It looks like they've revamped their design since the last time we heard from them - it's now shorter and uses less steel (thinner gauge they say) so hopefully they'll be able to pull it off. Despite the message that they are trying to convey - which I of course don't agree with at all - I think it would be a cool spectacle to see, if done right, and overall nice as a piece of art. But, I also think that there won't be a whole lot of people who get it right away, unless they become interested and pick up some literature.

They could have probably taken the concept a lot farther if they weren't so married to their 9/11 BS and made it about how they perceive that our society tends to warp or distort fact to something that's more comfortable, filtered for our enjoyment, or just covered up (sound like any movements you know?). But, as it is, I still have the suspicion that many passers-by will be saying, "Oh, I get it! The Truth, The Truth, The Truth is on Fire! We don't need no water . . ."

They should have already done a test burn and will be proceeding early on Sunday morning, apparently:


August 30, 2007 Black Rock- We set up our sound system last night and it works great. Pyro Tech re-scheduled our thermite displays to
Tonight, Thursday, 11pm, for a small demonstration on 3’ section of the same type of steel used in making the TruthBurn art piece. This is mostly a test of our system and run through with safety procedures.


Then the main burn, the controlled demolition of the TruthBurn sign itself is scheduled for early early Sunday, September 2, Sunday at 12:30 am or 1am. This is after the Man burns. Pyro must insure that enough fire and ranger staff can be available to assist with crowd control and safety, that’s why we’ve been juggled around.

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Now if only they can set it up, and then place the charges in broad daylight with no one noticing...

[Alferd_Packer]

Thinner guage steel, huh?

What are the letters made of, Air conditioning duct?

[qarnos]

I would be interested to know how they plan on trying to make this work.

[Dr Adequate]

"It is irresponsible and juvenile to light thermite on anything less than a full 20 lb. propane tank."

[bje]

I would be interested to know how they plan on trying to make this work.


I wonder how many man-hours will have gone into rigging the "sculpture" with Thermite.

[Monza]

Here is an interesting question: Can you be arrested for arson by setting fire to someting called Burning Man?

Linky (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/08/29/MN1ARR0JD.DTL)

[DGM]

Where's all the video of this project? I've been waiting patiently and nothing. I've watched all of the "Burning man" podcasts and not a single mention. Did I miss something? Anyone?

[peteweaver]

Three days into september now, where's the footage of their amazing feat ?

Its all quiet in the truthburn camp...

[Foolmewunz]

I just went through about twenty news articles found by googling "Burning Man" and selecting "News". Not even a single mention of Truthburn.

[Dr Adequate]

Maybe they gave up on the whole thermate idea and decided to use a Directed Energy Weapon instead.

Truther #1 : Well, we've pointed an open microwave oven at it for ages and it still hasn't fallen down ... four-twenty?"

A reflective pause occurs.

Truther #2 : Maybe it's just ... y'know ... the weed talking ... but what if we flew a big plane into it?

Truther #3 : Shut up!

[maccy]

I've posted to the ePlaya thread (http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=20332) and to the TruthBurn blog (http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/08/new-thermite-schedule.html) to try and provoke some announcement about what happened.

I predict silence from here on in.

[defaultdotxbe]

i have a sneaking suspiscion its not going to work, and will be swept under the rug like barretts trip to morocco
:rolleyes:

[maccy]

I've just spotted this from the sidebar of their blog:

The sculpture can have a second life as it travels the gallery and museum circuit.

Maybe they're busy with cutting torches getting it ready for its second life?

:)

[ref]

:rolleyes:

Achievements this year?

Barrett's trip to Morocco.. um.. oops.. he missed. He wrote a bitter report later, though.

Destructing a Truth sign made of steel with thermite.. hmm.. where did they go..

And who could forget the time, when they were going to be on The View. But.. Rosie had some issues.. and she resigned.. Why don't they talk about Rosie anymore? Out of sight, nobody cares?

But hey, Final Cut will be test screened in Norway four days from now!

[VespaGuy]

Still no news about the "Truth burn"?

Here's my prediction: The thermite was far less spectacular than predicted (i.e. it didn't work), but the truthers will claim that it 'wasn't about the thermite, anyway', and they'll claim it as a success because it got the message out.

[ref]

My prediction is, they couldn't get it to cut diagonally. And the event flopped. Let's wait and see.

[jezcoe]

Its not the best peice of art at burning man but here is a pic. Sorry can't post links yet... still mostly a lurker. flickr.com/photos/frfrdufour/1318644980/

[ref]

Its not the best peice of art at burning man but here is a pic. Sorry can't post links yet... still mostly a lurker. flickr.com/photos/frfrdufour/1318644980/

Here is the link:

http://flickr.com/photos/frfrdufour/1318644980

[Alferd_Packer]

Interesting that they had to use diagonal bracing on that sign.

[maccy]

It's quite hard to judge, but I'd say those columns are quite a lot smaller than the ones they are claiming were cut with thermite:

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

I'd be interested to know how thick the steel is, and what grade it is, as well.

[Drs_Res]

Well, the piece went up.
Screen cap from this page: http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/3435110/
8352

It does not quite look like the blueprint or the picture here.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1774246dd5ba0df8fd.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=8104)

I smell a conspiracy.

[VespaGuy]

Hey, there might be something to this Truth movement after all. Apparently, the Truth sign has the ability to remove women's clothing (except for pink furry boots).

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1316657441&size=l

Photo should be SFW. You have to squint really hard. (Trust me, I tried).

[Drs_Res]

It's quite hard to judge, but I'd say those columns are quite a lot smaller than the ones they are claiming were cut with thermite:

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

I'd be interested to know how thick the steel is, and what grade it is, as well.

Well the blueprints are about halfway down the page here:
http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/

By the blueprint it is 10" X 10" X 5/8" tube steel. Sorry, no grade listed that I could find.

[maccy]

Well the blueprints are about halfway down the page here:
http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/

By the blueprint it is 10" X 10" X 5/8" tube steel. Sorry, no grade listed that I could find.

I got the impression from the ePlaya thread that the final piece was scaled down from the blueprints:

the piece has been modified to stand 15' tall and weight far less by using thinner gauge steel.http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=20332

[Unsecured Coins]

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1316657441&size=l

Photo should be SFW. You have to squint really hard. (Trust me, I tried).

wow.. they have some killer mosquitos out there.

[Newtons Bit]

Well the blueprints are about halfway down the page here:
http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/

By the blueprint it is 10" X 10" X 5/8" tube steel. Sorry, no grade listed that I could find.

It'll be A500 Gr. B (Yield stress is 46ksi). That's the most common and cheapest of tubes of that variety. A 10x10x5/8" is overkill for a stand like this as well. They could have gotten an HSS4x4x1/4" to work, though that would look ridiculously small.

[Myriad]

I'll be very disappointed if they didn't at least attempt to knock the sign down with thermite. I got the impression that they were working with professional pyrotechnicians who told them they could do it, which would mean that they had figured out a method. I thought of a couple possible ways (none of which would be applicable to a building demolition and none of which I'd want to see non-experts attempt), such as setting the columns in concrete footings, with a depression in the top of each footing and/or a rim around the edge of the footing, to trap the molten iron and melt through the columns. (Perhaps a different material than concrete; I'm not sure what happens if hot thermite hits recently-cured moisture-laden concrete.)

Respectfully,
Myriad

[peteweaver]

I'm not sure what happens if hot thermite hits recently-cured moisture-laden concrete.

The water in it would boil and expand... Such a situation could get dangerous...

[maccy]

The water in it would boil and expand... Such a situation could get dangerous...

Frank Greening on another thread (talking about the water in concrete that would have set over 25 years before the WTC collapse):

Then you have heat energy stored in the steel and concrete from the fires. Concrete becomes very brittle and prone to explosive spalling when heated above about 200 deg C. This energy would be released when the concrete was subjected to hard impacts.

GregoryUrich:

I said ABOUT 1 x 10^12 J.... but then went on to show that the chemical energies involved were much larger than this.

Also you are missing my point that heat energy from the fires was STORED by the concrete when it was heated and RELEASED EXPLOSIVELY during the collapse. This conclusion is based on recent research by L. M. Schwarzkopf; see: http://www.electronic-earth-discuss.net/1/81/2006/

Concrete contains a lot more water than the rocks studied by Schwarzkopf!

Gregory:

Please take a look at Bazant's paper in the Journal of the Engineering Mechanics Division for October 1978 entitled "Pore Pressure and Drying of Concrete at High Temperature". From data in this paper I estimate that the "P-delta(V)" energy that would have been released by the expansion of the pore water in the concrete was about 30 MJ per floor slab in the fire-affected zones of the towers. But, if you think about it, this energy was trapped in the concrete by the fires. Thus, surprising as it seems, heat energy was capable of doing work, (of pulverization), during the collapse.

[maccy]

John Parulis, the man behind 911TruthBurn, runs the Brightpathvideo Production Company (http://brightpathvideo.com/).

So he doesn't really have an excuse for not videoing the event...

[qarnos]

Huh? So there's no news about their revolutionary demonstration? What a surprise. :rolleyes:

[jhunter1163]

Come on! I gotta know! Did it get blow'd up or not?

[uk_dave]

Come on! I gotta know! Did it get blow'd up or not?

From what I heard, they decided that the 'truth' movement has been the subject of too much ridicule already and they wanted to avoid any more so they decided to pull the whole performance and...ermmmmm... watch it rust.

[Drudgewire]

From what I heard, they decided that the 'truth' movement has been the subject of too much ridicule already and they wanted to avoid any more so they decided to pull the whole performance and...ermmmmm... watch it rust.
I hope they still used thermite on something. That would be so freakin' cool in the middle of an acid peak.

[kookbreaker]

From what I heard, they decided that the 'truth' movement has been the subject of too much ridicule already and they wanted to avoid any more so they decided to pull the whole performance and...ermmmmm... watch it rust.

So...it blowed up lame.

[kookbreaker]

From what I heard, they decided that the 'truth' movement has been the subject of too much ridicule already and they wanted to avoid any more so they decided to pull the whole performance and...ermmmmm... watch it rust.

Hee hee

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/kookbreaker/rust-is-sorta-thermite-y.png

[Civilized Worm]

Iron oxide? That's watertight proof of thermite! INSIDE JORB!

[orphia nay]

Wow, man... like, the happening that, like, didn't happen, man. Very Zen, man.

:rolleyes:

[Myriad]

Perhaps they they got thousands of people to help blow it up, and now they're all keeping it a secret.

That would sure show us a thing or two, wouldn't it?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[bje]

So here we go.....

"We just got back from Burning Man with a very successful thermite demonstration at the Truth sign. There are many details still in need of attention, so please be patient. We do have some great video. We burned about 80 lbs of thermite altogether and Richard Gage, AIA, gave an excellent talk before the burn. Yarrow Mahko and ae911truth's Bill Donelley were also in attendance."

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/


We don't know what happened. But TruthSpeak may have some clues:

"a very successful thermite demonstration at the Truth sign."
Possible translation: We didn't actually cut the Truth sign.

"There are many details still in need of attention."
Possible translation: we're still trying to work out how to spin this.

"We do have some great video."
Possible translation: We are editing to give best possible spin.

"We burned about 80 lbs of thermite altogether."
Possible translation: It took us that much to cut through two thin tubular pieces??! Do you know how much they would have needed to destroy WTC 1 and 2??! We're screwed!!!

"Richard Gage, AIA, gave an excellent talk before the burn."
Possible translation: No one gave any talk about the actual burn.

"Yarrow Mahko and ae911truth's Bill Donelley were also in attendance."
Possible translation: There weren't many big Truther names in attendance.

Another day... another successful disaster for the 9/11 Truth Movement.

[Gravy]

So here we go.....
We don't know what happened. But TruthSpeak may have some clues:

"a very successful thermite demonstration at the Truth sign."Interesting. They did advertise a small thermite demonstration at the sign well before the big burn. I don't think they would have worded it that way if they were referring to the big event. I've seen nothing on the web: nothing from Gage or the other participants, no photos or video.

"There are many details still in need of attention."
Yeah. Like all of them.

[Gravy]

"Good News! Dr. Steven Jones & Kevin Ryan not only support TruthBurn, they are giving technical advice as well." (http://www.911blogger.com/blog/2779/feed)Translation: its unexpected midday collapse was blamed on a cold fusion reaction, but the cause turned out to be a stray solar cooker beam reflecting off a can of Dinty Moore beef stew. Bottled water was used to cool it before its pieces could be handled. A lawsuit has been filed.

Note the shape of the Burning "Man" site:

http://www.brightpathvideo.com/Truth/07-BRCMap.jpg

Shills!

[NYCEMT86]

Translation: its unexpected midday collapse was blamed on a cold fusion reaction, but the cause turned out to be a stray solar cooker beam reflecting off a can of Dinty Moore beef stew. Bottled water was used to cool it before its pieces could be handled. A lawsuit has been filed.



ROFL

:dl:

That statement couldn't get any better.

[R.Mackey]

80 pounds of thermite??

To cut what couldn't possibly be more than a few percent of the cross-section of one column of the WTC?

Yikes. I'll bet it was fun, though.

[bje]

Translation: its unexpected midday collapse was blamed on a cold fusion reaction, but the cause turned out to be a stray solar cooker beam reflecting off a can of Dinty Moore beef stew. Bottled water was used to cool it before its pieces could be handled. A lawsuit has been filed.

Hah!:D

But rumor has it that it wasn't a can of Dinty Moore. It was a can of


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1593946de9ca8ef254.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=8110)

[Alferd_Packer]

interesting. Earlier, there were 6 comments, now there are only 3.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=676193802009117545&postID=8151680056306507563

[maccy]

interesting. Earlier, there were 6 comments, now there are only 3.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=676193802009117545&postID=8151680056306507563


This one has been cut from 6 comments to 2:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=676193802009117545&postID=3031938235996427458

Much deletion of dissent going on...

[cmcaulif]

If they used a 10" X 10" X 5/8" section and it was indeed an HSS shape, that would give their two columns a combined area of 41 in2, whereas single core column in the WTC had cross sectional areas ranging from 62 in2 with many up to 215 in2.

Even if they were to be successful, that is quite unimpressive.

[PhantomWolf]

interesting. Earlier, there were 6 comments, now there are only 3.

This one has been cut from 6 comments to 2:

Perhaps they used Thermite on them...

[maccy]

If they used a 10" X 10" X 5/8" section and it was indeed an HSS shape, that would give their two columns a combined area of 41 in2, whereas single core column in the WTC had cross sectional areas ranging from 62 in2 with many up to 215 in2.

Even if they were to be successful, that is quite unimpressive.

From the discussions on the burning man site, it looks like they changed their plans and used thinner steel, so as to make it lighter and easier to transport and construct. They also reduced the height, for the same reason.

Also, from what Newton's Bit has said about the grade of steel they used, I'd say it wasn't as strong as the steel used in the WTC columns.

[cmcaulif]

From the discussions on the burning man site, it looks like they changed their plans and used thinner steel, so as to make it lighter and easier to transport and construct. They also reduced the height, for the same reason.

Also, from what Newton's Bit has said about the grade of steel they used, I'd say it wasn't as strong as the steel used in the WTC columns.

WOW, thats pretty weak sauce. I wish they would hurry up with the video so we can see the 'hot knife through butter' effect in action though.:D

[bje]

Perhaps they used Thermite on them...

No doubt. They had plenty to play with.

There's a definite coverup going on here, eh?

[bje]

interesting. Earlier, there were 6 comments, now there are only 3.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=676193802009117545&postID=8151680056306507563

Whoever had the ability to delete those comments had the ability to tell us what actually happened.

What more evidence of an inside job does anyone need???

[Anti-sophist]

You guys are focusing on all the wrong things. I don't care how much thermite they used, how clean the cuts were, or how strong the steel was, or how much steel there was. Once you've proven the concepts, upgrading the steel or lowering the amount of thermite is an engineering problem that I don't expect someone to get right on the first try. Although I do admit that making "clean" cuts seems virtually impossible to me, regardless.

For the -real- challenge though.... I want to see them coordinate two separate thermite "cutters" to cut through two vertical columns at the same time. That, alone, would be A+ work in my book.

[Foolmewunz]

You guys are focusing on all the wrong things. I don't care how much thermite they used, how clean the cuts were, or how strong the steel was, or how much steel there was. Once you've proven the concepts, upgrading the steel or lowering the amount of thermite is an engineering problem that I don't expect someone to get right on the first try. Although I do admit that making "clean" cuts seems virtually impossible to me, regardless.

For the -real- challenge though.... I want to see them coordinate two separate thermite "cutters" to cut through two vertical columns at the same time. That, alone, would be A+ work in my book.

Well, since they're out to prove Inside Job and that this is how the towers came down, wouldn't it be more likely that it would require more like 200 (or even 2000, depending on which whackjob you listen to) simoultaneous column cuts?

[PhantomWolf]

Well, since they're out to prove Inside Job and that this is how the towers came down, wouldn't it be more likely that it would require more like 200 (or even 2000, depending on which whackjob you listen to) simoultaneous column cuts?

All perfectly timed and occuring within 9 seconds. ;)

[LashL]

No wonder they've become rather quiet about the matter.

[qarnos]

The suspense is killing me.

Why won't they release the video? I mean, they have nothing to hide, right?

[ref]

Update from a guy, who was involved with this. Written yesterday.

"Hi Shooter. Video will be posted by weekend hopefully. I'm wiped out and back to work. Had to find a temp home for TruthBurn. Did. Now I gotta work on a future home for it and activist plans for it. I'll try to write something, though my brain feels like mush right now. Did remotely ignite about 70 lbs of thermite. Richard Gage was great at the burn. So are the BM pyro people and Dimitri."

http://tribes.tribe.net/truthburn/thread/dd284e0b-b158-4bef-9ab5-cbf0e4aea7f3

[VespaGuy]

Update from a guy, who was involved with this. Written yesterday.

"Hi Shooter. Video will be posted by weekend hopefully. I'm wiped out and back to work. Had to find a temp home for TruthBurn. Did. Now I gotta work on a future home for it and activist plans for it. I'll try to write something, though my brain feels like mush right now. Did remotely ignite about 70 lbs of thermite. Richard Gage was great at the burn. So are the BM pyro people and Dimitri."

http://tribes.tribe.net/truthburn/thread/dd284e0b-b158-4bef-9ab5-cbf0e4aea7f3

Hmmm. Nothing about cutting the columns. If this was a 'success' it would have been all over the truther boards by now. I can't wait to hear the excuses why they didn't cut the columns.

[Drudgewire]

Hmmm. Nothing about cutting the columns. If this was a 'success' it would have been all over the truther boards by now. I can't wait to hear the excuses why they didn't cut the columns.

Oh I have faith in them. It'll be something along the lines of "we don't have the technology the NWO has so it didn't happen instantaniously or cleanly, but we did prove thermite can go through steel."

"SUCCESS!!!"

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Is it time to announce that the 9/11 truth movement IS AN INSIDE JOB?

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Hmmm. Nothing about cutting the columns. If this was a 'success' it would have been all over the truther boards by now. I can't wait to hear the excuses why they didn't cut the columns.

They're waiting for the torrent of the new 50-cent album to finish downloading so they can show the video with a loud distorted soundtrack.

[ref]

Hmmm. Nothing about cutting the columns. If this was a 'success' it would have been all over the truther boards by now. I can't wait to hear the excuses why they didn't cut the columns.

That's true. John Parulis said, they burned 80 pounds of thermate AT the sign. And now this guy says they remotely ignited 70 pounds. No mention of the sign.

Conclusion, they didn't cut the columns.

[Sparky]

Does anyone have any info on how TruthBurn went? I'm hoping the sign stayed standing.

Oops. Just noticed that there is already a thread on this elsewhere.

[maccy]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91866

[VespaGuy]

It's being discussed here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91866

So far, there's very little information.

[Alferd_Packer]

we made what I believe was a safe and smart decision not to place our thermite cutter charges on the sign itself, rather ignite them beneath the sign on a hunk of steel we obtained from another artist.

WIMPS!!!!

August 31,2007 Black Rock- Last night at 11 pm we successfully ignited a pot of thermite on a piece of ¼” U-channel similar to the one holding up the Truthburn letters. The 20 lbs of thermite created an enormous, bright as the sun fireball that burned through the ¼ “ steel like, well, butter. The flowing streams of molten metal stayed very hot for about ½ an hour afterwards.


LOL


Where is the SS Fail?

[Drudgewire]

August 31,2007 Black Rock- Last night at 11 pm we successfully ignited a pot of thermite on a piece of ¼” U-channel similar to the one holding up the Truthburn letters. The 20 lbs of thermite created an enormous, bright as the sun fireball that burned through the ¼ “ steel like, well, butter. The flowing streams of molten metal stayed very hot for about ½ an hour afterwards.
Oh to be young and retarded and loaded on acid with dangerous explosives again. :sulk:

[cmcaulif]

So did they even attempt a horizontal cut?

[Par]

Oh to be young and retarded and loaded on acid with dangerous explosives again. :sulk:


That’s the third time I’ve seen you reminisce about being “loaded on acid” and express desire to have seen the exhibit. I cannot relate, personally. There’s no “E” in “TRUTH”, after all.

[Unsecured Coins]

WIMPS!!!!




LOL


Where is the SS Fail?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Jaye77/Failboat.jpg

[maccy]

So did they even attempt a horizontal cut?

No. There's a full update here:

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/updates-sept-4-2007.html

A couple of my favourite bits:

I contacted most of the major controlled demolition companies in the US and even one in Japan, to solicit bids for using thermite cutter charges to bring the sign down. I heard back from none of them. This left me, a novice in the field, to devise the devices myself.

and

Cost was a factor as well. I did get one bid from a shadowy tech person with ex-defense contacts in Virginia to build 2 sol-gel thermate cutter charges. The price was $10,000.00 per charge.

[PhantomWolf]

So they used 20 lbs of thermite to cut vertically through a 1/4 in thin peice of tube and the remains stayed hot for a whole 1/2 hour.....

So how does this relate at all to their claims of a small amount of thermite cutting diagonally through several inches of solid I-Beam and remaining hot for weeks?

[Unsecured Coins]

So they used 20 lbs of thermite to cut vertically through a 1/4 in thin peice of tube and the remains stayed hot for a whole 1/2 hour.....

So how does this relate at all to their claims of a small amount of thermite cutting diagonally through several inches of solid I-Beam and remaining hot for weeks?


It doesn't, you fool!! that's why it was an inside jorb!!

[Drudgewire]

That’s the third time I’ve seen you reminisce about being “loaded on acid” and express desire to have seen the exhibit. I cannot relate, personally. There’s no “E” in “TRUTH”, after all.

I'm a professional wrestling fan. People making idiots out of themselves entertains the bejeezus out of me.










And I was making social commentary on the only reason anyone goes to Burning Man. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/ssh.gif

e: And e sucks and is an insult to hallucinogens. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

[DGM]

I contacted most of the major controlled demolition companies in the US and even one in Japan, to solicit bids for using thermite cutter charges to bring the sign down. I heard back from none of them. This left me, a novice in the field, to devise the devices myself.

And I'm sure they're still laughing.

[kookbreaker]

I think I speak for some folks when I say: "BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

[Jonnyclueless]

What about Freefall man 07?

[qarnos]

As predicted, they changed their plans after the test burn.

What a cop-out.

The test caused me to re-evaluate our plan to bring the huge steel letters down using this method. In our test, the thermite flowed down the channel, and though it mostly cut the channel in half, there was an element of uncontrollability about the way the molten metal flows. Specifically I am concerned with safety. If the thermite charges don’t completely sever the channel holding the letters the structure can become dangerously unstable and pose a significant problem to already overtaxed Burning Man Department of Public Works (DPW) crews. Also the bolts that hold the upper structure together, may become fused thereby making disassembly very difficult. We have to take this giant 30000 lb structure down at the end of Burning Man and truck it back to the Bay Area. As a consequence, I’m working on a back up plan, that would still entail burning our themite, but this would happen underneath the structure, in three separate pots to symbolize the controlled demolition of all three World Trade Buildings. This after all an art project.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

What about Freefall man 07?


I know it wasn't your intent, but... in the context of 9/11... "freefall man" conjures up some rather disturbing memories...

[Par]

e: And e sucks and is an insult to hallucinogens.


Oh, comedown from your high horse. (Three in one. Go me.)

[Drudgewire]

(Three in one. Go me.)
http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/hfive.gif

[Jonnyclueless]

I know it wasn't your intent, but... in the context of 9/11... "freefall man" conjures up some rather disturbing memories...


I think you're thinking of "The Falling Man".

I am talking about how the thermite on the burning man would cause it to fall faster than freefall.

[Par]

I think you're thinking of "The Falling Man".

I am talking about how the thermite on the burning man would cause it to fall faster than freefall.


He is and he knows you are. His point, however, still stands.

[Redtail]

Oh to be young and retarded and loaded on acid with dangerous explosives again. :sulk:

:eye-poppi We... We're supposed to stop doing that?... Is 35 "holding on too long?"

[Drudgewire]

:eye-poppi We... We're supposed to stop doing that?... Is 35 "holding on too long?"
Hope not. Last time was a year ago and I'm 38. :o

[Jonnyclueless]

He is and he knows you are. His point, however, still stands.

I guess the whole topic would too.

[JimBenArm]

So, they put a pile of thermite on a piece of steel, and to their amazement, it melted it. No wonder they're so excited! Wow, who woulda thunk it!

[Par]

I guess the whole topic would too.


I’ve noticed that my comment sounded rather more confrontational than was my intention.

[Jonnyclueless]

No, it just makes me think that maybe going to a burning man event and displaying a 9/11 protest might be a little insensitive considering it was a fire that killed thousands of people in a terrorist act. I could see people being insulted by that.

[VespaGuy]

My predictionThe thermite was far less spectacular than predicted (i.e. it didn't work), but the truthers will claim that it 'wasn't about the thermite, anyway', and they'll claim it as a success because it got the message out.

RealityI’m working on a back up plan, that would still entail burning our themite, but this would happen underneath the structure, in three separate pots to symbolize the controlled demolition of all three World Trade Buildings. This [is] after all an art project.

If I was a psychic, I'd call this a 'hit'.

[qarnos]

My prediction

Reality

If I was a psychic, I'd call this a 'hit'.

This is much more accurate that what most psychics require for a "hit".

[Reality Believer]

This thread raises a good question: How hard / expensive would it be to scale the experiment to 1:1? This could be done from either camp. Mock up a full scale beam, stand it up and attempt to cut it with X hundred pounds of thermite /mate.

Either that or mock up a wood beam model and cut it with X hundred pounds of termite.

Either way, I'm good.

[PhantomWolf]

You think that Randi would call it rigged if you claimed that through the supernatural powers of the brain you could read the mind of a truther?

[Gravy]

They're already hard at work on plans for TRUTHBURN '08...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/879046e0d280bb11d.jpg

[qarnos]

Actually, I find it kind of ironic that their big symbolic gesture was "Truth" going up in flames. Sums up their movement nicely.

[Minadin]

My prediction

Reality

If I was a psychic, I'd call this a 'hit'.

My prediction:


My guess would be that they will be able to find a way to make it work, but it will still be swept under the rug once they see how dazzlingly bright burning thermite actually is. Also, because of this, there will be no decent video of the event.


Reality:


Last night at 11 pm we successfully ignited a pot of thermite on a piece of ¼” U-channel similar to the one holding up the Truthburn letters. The 20 lbs of thermite created an enormous, bright as the sun fireball that burned through the ¼ “ steel like, well, butter.


Hit?

[Dave Rogers]

I just noticed this one.

The burn stayed hot for at least an hour after we ignited it early Sunday morning, the 3rd of Sept. around 2 am.

It only stayed hot for an hour? But... shouldn't the steel have stayed molten for six weeks? You know, like, because of the thermite?

Dave

[maccy]

There's slow motion some video here:

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/about-70-lbs-of-thermite-ignited.html

Quite disturbingly, John hasn't bothered to fade the sound down when someone starts speaking, so you get a very loud creepy slow voice in the second half.

[Alferd_Packer]

I predict that John will be "burned out" by the results of this project.

[uk_dave]

What a total cop out

Jeez. All that hype, just for a firework display on the ground.

If they'd wanted to make at least some kind of statement they shuld have had a channel set up along the top of the sign and had the thermite burn down through the sheet steel of the "TRUTH" part and then have the two vertical posts wall fall inwards........

...... a bit like the wtc tower columns when the floor trusses were removed and the columns were no longer braced or restrained :D

[qarnos]

I just noticed this one.



It only stayed hot for an hour? But... shouldn't the steel have stayed molten for six weeks? You know, like, because of the thermite?

Dave

The flowing streams of molten metal stayed very hot for about ½ an hour afterwards.

An hour... half an hour... who's counting?

They have put a video up now but you can't really see anything about how the burn was conducted. It looks like the thermite was just stuck on top of the steel. Hard to say.

[Drudgewire]

They have put a video up now but you can't really see anything about how the burn was conducted. It looks like the thermite was just stuck on top of the steel. Hard to say.
This was as scientific as rolling a bowling ball at a box and then saying "see?"

[Dr Adequate]

They're already hard at work on plans for TRUTHBURN '08... http://www.boxofficemojo.com/img/w/wickerman/DF-04183.jpg

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

My prediction:



Reality:



Hit?

Ground Rule Double, with an RBI?

[Foolmewunz]

What a non-event. And he's kept this fifteen ton piece of crap so that he can tour it around galleries and not burn it again and again?

I, too, want the still photos of the steel that it cut through like a "knife through butter". Where are the geometrically clean straight lines that match the straight welders' cuts they all claim were really done by controlled thermite burns?

One poster hits the video page, and its a debunker!!!!


http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/about-70-lbs-of-thermite-ignited.html

[maccy]

One poster hits the video page, and its a debunker!!!!

More debunking on the previous entry:

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/updates-sept-4-2007.html

I've screencapped all the most recent comments just in case John goes on a deleting spree, like he did last time.

[Foolmewunz]

As to his "art"......

I know a lot of people in various sides of the arts, and have to think that as Burning Man goes, this is a total failure, and in terms we'd have used thirty years ago, a "sell out". The "burnables" tradition of this festival is just that. Bring your work or create your work here..... and burn it! That's the underlying theme.

But John's a cheap bugger and/or his brilliant piece is too important to burn? So? "Umm, well, uhhh, we'll just burn some thermite in a pan, here". No wonder there were no comments on this "piece" in any of the news articles or reviews! It's a total failure as a demonstration for political purposes, and a total copout in terms of the themes of Burning Man.

And what's he going to exhibit in galleries? I can see the blurbs....

"This is the piece that we were going to build out of the same gauge of steel they used in the WTC buildings, but decided not to because we wanted to be sure we could burn through it with thermite, but decided not to because we were concerned about safety what with the other forty or fifty burning objets d'art that night. And here's a video of some thermite burning in a pan, and just you believe me... It was bright, I tell ya! And dang did it stay hot! Hoo boy that was hot!"

Hell, I'd rather just hangout at Crazy Chainsaw's place and wait to see him blowin' stuff up real good!

Doug MacKenzie should post there. One word.... "Hoser!"

[LashL]

What a non-event.

Indeed. Talk about lunchbag letdown.

But, not entirely unexpected. He's a twoofer, after all, and twoofers have a bad habit of doing a whole lot of buildup and very little follow-through.

[maccy]

It can be a problem with political art that the people making it think that the politics is a substitute for the art - a self-defeating attitude.

Here's a flickr photoset that includes the TruthBurn sign, see how dull it is in comparison to the other stuff:

http://flickr.com/photos/frfrdufour/sets/72157601853613907/

[jhunter1163]

So "Ravers for 9/11 Truth" didn't exactly wow 'em at Burning Man.. no surprise there.

[peteweaver]

What next year ? a demonstration of the space beams theories, as truthers use a magnifying glass, and some paper to symbolise a space beam at work against a skyscraper ?

[qarnos]

What next year ? a demonstration of the space beams theories, as truthers use a magnifying glass, and some paper to symbolise a space beam at work against a skyscraper ?

Please, don't give them any ideas...

[Alferd_Packer]

detail of the sign (http://brightpathvideo.com/Truth/pics/bmanpics07/tb1d.jpg)

You know, as an art project, it would have been a lot more effective if the lined the inside of that bottom channel with some refractory cement, put in a narrow line of thermite and lit that.

or better yet, just build the whole thing out of 6x6s and plywood and let it burn, baby, burn!!!

[Civilized Worm]

That’s the third time I’ve seen you reminisce about being “loaded on acid” and express desire to have seen the exhibit. I cannot relate, personally. There’s no “E” in “TRUTH”, after all.


There's no "E" in "ACID" either. :confused:

[Par]

There's no "E" in "ACID" either. :confused:


Well, quite. If there was, then perhaps I could relate. (My original remark was ambiguous, granted.)

[maccy]

An interesting assertion by John Parulis in the comments section of the latest blog entry (http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/about-70-lbs-of-thermite-ignited.html):

Howard, shaped thermite charges are in fact possible. My devices were shaped and directed the flow of thermite where I wanted it. The video will show this. Spectre Physics in Florida makes shaped thermite cutters.

My reply:

Do you have a website or some contact details for this company? A quick Google search only reveals a company called "Spectre Physics" or "Spectra Physics" (spelling seems to vary) who make lasers for use in lightshows. They seem to be from California, though.

Sorry to keep posting about this, but I'd love to see some detailed specifications of a thermite/thermate cutter charge.

[Alferd_Packer]

maccy, note that the first quote contradicts his earlier post:

there was an element of uncontrollability about the way the molten metal flows.

unfortunately he has invested too much in this project to admit failure.

[maccy]

OK, I got a reply from John in the comments. It wasn't Spectre Physics he was talking about, it was Spectre Enterprises. This is their contact page:

http://www.spectreenterprises.net/contactUs.htm

There's no other publicly accessible information on their site.

They do have a patent for a thermite-based cutting torch:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6183569.html

I'm pretty sure that this is the patent that Horatius dug up ages ago in a discussion with 28th Kingdom, but there's no way I'm going back into that thread to check.

I'm also pretty sure that the truthers would have been entirely unaware of this patent had it not been for Horatius (given that they aren't very good at research). So it's entirely possible that TruthBurn couldn't have happened without Horatius!

Anyway, our great friend Einsteen has posted a short video of this cutter charge with the following blurb:

"Spectre has begun to design a new class of devices that are an updated version of the earliest use of thermite technology dating back more than 100 years.

These first examples of thermite technology were so-called "gravity flow" devices that generated extremely high temperature metal flows that were used for welding or penetrating metal objects. This approach is not nearly as efficient as our focused jet torches for penetrating or cutting but provides a simple and easy-to-use solution for situations where something other than a highly focused cut is required. Our unique approach has the added advantage of being user-scalable. While our advanced thermite torch designs are carefully engineered for relatively specific requirements, this approach allows users to simply add additional units to a pile of units that will ultimately create a larger mass of super-heated metal."

And here it is, a video that clearly shows the colossal power of a thermite cutting torch, brace yourselves...

Wn-MCCZ3O1M

I'll email the people at Spectre Enterprises some time tomorrow and see if I can get their opinion on all this.

[Mercutio]

Frankly, sparkler bombs (http://www.dansdata.com/personal/Bombs.html) are cooler.

[jberryhill]

There's slow motion some video

Why does he not show the burn at normal speed?

I have the feeling that he wants it to appear as if it burned longer than it really did.

[PhantomWolf]

There's slow motion some video

Why does he not show the burn at normal speed?

I have the feeling that he wants it to appear as if it burned longer than it really did.

If you read the page he points out several times that the average burn time is 1.5 seconds. ;)

[Gravy]

TruthBurn Up Again in Marin County! (http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/12/truthburn-up-again-in-marin-county.html)

The Truth sign that made its debut at this year's Burning Man is now on a ranch in Marin County. We have plans to continue using it as an art object to bring awareness to the Truth about what really happened on September 11, 2001


What will it take to kill this sign, which is made of indestructible WTC steel?

I suggest that they try mini-nukes next. Just use a long fuse....

[OldTigerCub]

What will it take to kill this sign, which is made of indestructible WTC steel?

I suggest that they try mini-nukes next. Just use a long fuse....

I was tempted to start a thread on that update from truthburn earlier, but it occurred to me that I just didn't want to look at that rusty monstrosity anymore....:boggled:

[jhunter1163]

Apparently the Truth is non-flammable.

[Gravy]

I predict that next they'll fly an airliner into it, to prove that can't bring it down:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/RC_Airplane.jpg

[jhunter1163]

Sounds like a job for Spooked911!

[tomwaits]

Maybe they should try flying a plane into it?

[OldTigerCub]

I predict that next they'll fly an airliner into it, to prove that can't bring it down:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/RC_Airplane.jpg

:dl: